People don't know that we have over 40 species of native orchids in Indiana. And Hawaii has three, which is the orchid isle state. [music] The limestone reef deposit rises 75 ft above the river. This is crazy. Protecting nature [music] for the the biodiversity, the the native plants and animals for you being involved [music] with this from north to south. What do you think about Indiana's natural beauty?
From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused [music] on the Hooser State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Here in Indiana, chances are you've heard the name Keller and Keller. And there's a reason so many Hoosiers trust them [music] when something goes wrong. Keller and Keller is a local personal injury law firm that's been helping people across Indiana for over 90 years. And they've [music] built a reputation for showing up and putting clients first when it matters most.
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Get the Keller Edge. Now, let's get into the episode. My guest today is Andrea Huntington and she is the executive director of the Indiana Land Protection Alliance, a nonprofit organization that champions land and water conservation by uniting, empowering, and elevating Indiana's land conservation community. Now, ILPA's Memberland Trust serve all 92 counties and have protected more than 176,000 acres across the Hooser State. Andrea has served as executive director since July of 2021 and her background includes conservation work along the southern Lake Michigan watershed. She's been active with the land trust community since 2017.
I'm really excited to dive into this conversation today. The first thing we're going to start with is we're going to learn what a land trust is and we're going to gain a new appreciation for the natural resources that we have across the Hooser State. learning the work that's being done to protect those areas and and the work that's being done to, you know, have a a grateful sense of uh of what we do have here in Indiana and how we can utilize that. So, welcome to the show. Thanks. Thanks, Nate.
This is going to be super super fun. Um, I mean just in the like two minutes before we pressed record, we were talking about different oh national protected areas and different state parks and all the like we definitely have a true expert on our hands here, but I want to know one, what is a land trust and how did you get into the the industry of land trust in Indiana? Yeah, so um a land trust is a nonprofit organization that protects land um for nature but also for people. So many of Indiana's land trusts provide public access to their communities um to get outside and and just enjoy what they have in their backyards. So is there like an example of a land trust that most Hoosiers would know about but maybe not know that it is a land trust? Probably the largest global organization that most people know about is the Nature Conservancy.
Okay. Um, and then I I think most I'm learning that most Hoosiers know about their local land trust. Um, but they may not realize that uh that it is a land trust or that it's part of this bigger community. Um, so for example in Indianapolis here we have the Central Indiana Land Trust. When you get over to East Central Indiana, you have Redtale Land Consery. We have Sycamore Land Trust in Southern Indiana.
Indiana Carse Conservancy, um Shirley Hines Land Trust, which is up in northwest Indiana, Acres Land Trust. There is a lot of land trust across the state of Indiana, but like what is the difference between something that would be a land trust and like a state park or a national park or a local park, you know, like I thought you were going to say something around like Eagle Creek being like something to do with land trust. Like what what would be the difference between a state or municipal park and a land trust? Yeah. So, they're not a government entity. They're nonprofits.
Um, and many of them formed because of these, you know, grassroots efforts, uh, within their communities, people who saw a need, um, to protect some of the special places that maybe weren't being protected by, uh, a national park, a state park. Um, and I think what makes them a little unique is a huge part of their mission is they're continuously protecting land. Yeah. And um also in addition to protecting land, a part of that mission is is taking care of that land in perpetuity. Um so as organizations and we call that stewardship. So sometimes that's active restoration where they're actually planting trees or restoring a wetland.
Um but a huge part of their staff and really um their expenses as nonprofit organizations are [snorts] the ongoing removing invasive plant species or things that threaten like rare sensitive things that they're protecting. M so would this have started okay if you think like you know over a hundred years ago someone just has a has accumulated a large breath of land and instead of like parceling it up or doing whatever they're like hey I want to keep this protected and then people start to tag alongside and generate revenue to to upkeep a place that people can visit like can we go and visit these places I'm like looking on like like the Buffalo Trace Land Trust so this says uh the Buffalo Trace Land Trust protects beautiful landscapes in southern Indiana. Now, is that like one specific like giant parcel that they protect or is it like different small parcels around southern Indiana? Yeah. So, it all kind of depends actually.
So, most of the organizations have many different project areas. Um, now we do have some organizations that are focused around specific watersheds or very specific projects. Um, so a good example is Little River Wetlands Project or Clear Lake Township Land Conservancy. You know, they're focused on um on specific areas and and they are also looking at other project areas, but it's all really focused in a a very concentrated area. Wow. Um, but when you get out to when you look at, for example, Acres Land Trust, um, they're in a 26 county region.
um their properties are spread out uh throughout those communities. Um and many of the organizations did form uh because community members came together just like you said and uh recognized that what they had was really special in their community and that they wanted to to see it protected for future generations. Um some of I I think I always tell people that land trusts are really patient. We're very patient because what we do is forever, you know, we're not and we have to think that way in terms of um land trust have to think that way in terms of how they operate. Um so they're very strategic before they acquire new land. Um they can't, you know, they don't protect all land and that's a question that we get asked a lot.
Um, in fact, we've even had times where people have come to land trust and and said, um, you know, we want to donate this 10acre plot or this 20 acre plot to the organization. Most of the land trusts are going to look at and see whether those properties fall within kind of their strategic conservation vision. Yeah. Because while it is a new potential project area, you know, they're going to look at what's the biodiversity potentially, which we do have some land trust that protect land. What got you originally so passionate about land trust and conservation in the state of Indiana? Yeah.
So, um, my husband actually started working for state parks while I was still practicing law and we spent a lot of time. Uh, what was your husband doing for state parks? Um, so he he started as an assistant property manager at Salomony Res. Oh, yeah. That's like norththeast Indiana, right? Like kind of up in the Fort Wayne region.
Yeah, it's it's an amazing property. And um but is that a state park? It is. So it's Salomony State Park. Okay, cool. Yep.
And uh so he was there for a couple of years. He went to the Indiana Dunes um as the assistant manager there. the Indiana Dunes State Park which is different than the national park. We did Wait, we do need to bust that myth real quick. So, there is a state park and a national park and they are separate entities. Yes.
So, you cannot use your national parks pass to get into the state park or vice versa. Exactly. I think a lot of Hoosiers thought that the Indiana State Park or I think a lot of Hoosiers thought the Indiana Dunes State Park became the Indiana Dunes National Park, which is not the truth. No. No. The state park is is still there and amazing.
I highly recommend people go visit it. Um the national park was a national lake shore and so it was redesated. Also an amazing property. The two uh the national park and the state park worked really closely together. So great collaboration between the two but very easy to confuse as being one Oh. So your husband was involved with the with the state parks throughout Indiana and you were still practicing law.
How did So you got uh exposed to like have you always been an outdoors person your entire life? Uh I haven't. No. No. It was um my my husband grew up going to national parks. Um, and so, uh, yeah, he started getting me outside more, and I fell in love with the trails and, um, the the properties throughout Indiana, uh, natural spaces, and, um, uh, I was looking to transition out of law into nonprofit organizations, and I got really lucky, actually.
I uh I met with the community foundation executive director in Porter County at the time and she knew I was looking to make this jump and she said hey have you heard of Shirley Hines Land Trust and I said what is a land trust? Um and that took me down you know uh researching and learning about what they do. I met with our executive director and eventually uh I ended up working there uh for a few years before coming to Indiana Land Protection Alliance. Okay. So what were you doing at the Shirley Hines Land Trust? Yeah.
So I was their director of development. Um so I did uh fundraising. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm still I still wanted to like summarize. If people had to think about a land trust and just understand it in two sentences, what is a land trust?
Yeah. So, a land trust is a nonprofit organization that protects land and then cares for that land in perpetuity. Okay. So, this is why, okay, if you came and said, "Hey, 10 acres, we're we're going to donate 10 acres to this." You also have to think about well it's going to cost you know I don't know what the number that's easy numbers say $25,000 per acre forever you know like you can't just say yes to every acre because then you have to go and match the fundraising to protect the advanced acreage. Correct.
Is that kind of like thinking about that too? Yeah. And and beyond the acquisition it's the taking care of it forever um that that can get really expensive for organizations. And is it all funded through private donors or are there state and national grants? Um, some of the land trusts have found ways to leverage um different types of uh, you know, federal and state funding, but the bulk of what they do is funded privately, private philanthropy. And what are we using this land for?
And also in general, I think a lot of people say Indiana has no there's no natural beauty to the state of Indiana. So, I mean, I want to go into both of these conversations. I'm going to start with what are we using the land that is inside of land trusts? Like, is it is it something that the public can use? Do you have to pay ticket revenue? Like, how does that work?
Yeah. So, uh most of the land trusts have nature preserves that they open up to the public and make that available um for free. And so, they'll have trails. Some of the land trusts have installed kayak launches on some of their properties. Um, and then you know beyond the uh public use, they are really protecting nature for the the biodiversity, the the native plants and animals, the um uh helping to improve and um protect water quality for example. So a lot of the areas when you look at land trust and look at maps and where they protect many of them are protecting along different water corridors.
Um and then you know uh really unique Indiana also has a couple of agricultural land trusts that protect farmland working farms. Um, and so that's a little different. That's done through conservation easements, which is basically a fancy legal term for an agreement that an organization has with a land owner, and it runs with the land. So, people think of easements as something that runs and changes with an owner. A conservation easement is special. It has um uh, you know, it's a a federal designation that runs with the land.
So for example um a farmer he his property might pass on to his son and the conservation easement would actually still that agreement would stay in place even with future generations. This is a silly question to ask you. Have you seen Yellowstone the show Yellowstone? Okay I'm really embarrassed to say I haven't yet but I've wanted to. Fair and I love going to Yellowstone. Spoiler spoiler on the show Yellowstone.
[laughter] Uh, one of the levers that they pulled, the whole thing is about keeping their ranch in Montana together. And one of the levers that the the the patriarch of the family pulls is because to make sure that no one like splits it up and sells it off to different developers and whatnot, he's like, "No, we're going to we're going to put it in a conservation easement." That's amazing. I did not entire So, like when you said it, I was like, "Oh, yeah. It's Kevin Cosner's character and he's like, you know, a total BA, like patriarch of this family and wants to make sure that his kids don't sell off his greatgrandfather's farm or ranch. And so he's like, yeah, he puts it all into a conservation easement so no developers can get to it and use their land.
And that's amazing. It's kind of not know. Well, so but you have to make it through a lot of like uh I mean it is like a dramatized show. There's a lot of like very much uh hyperbole and places there, but I did learn about conservation ements from that show that I that that is wild because most people have no idea and in fact I mean it is something I'm glad you brought that up as an example. Um you know many of the land trusts in western states um they focus on doing conservation easements on working lands. Yeah.
um Indiana and they have different funding mechanisms, especially state funding mechanisms that help to make that possible to leverage some of the federal farm bill funding. Um and so, uh we do have a couple of land trusts or actually I should say a few land trusts that do that work in Indiana. Um but what makes us a little different is most of Indiana's land trust focus on on those natural spaces. So you started at Shirley Hines Land Trust. This is in Valpo, right? Yes.
Okay. So, one, who was Shirley Hines and how did this land trust get started? So, Shirley Hines uh was an advocate um for the Dunes area and she passed away at an early age, unfortunately, and some friends of hers decided that they wanted to preserve her legacy. And so, they thought um you know, what's the best way? What did she care about? And so they created um what was called the Shirley Hines Endowment Fund, I think is is what it started as.
Um and it was $30,000. So the whole organization started with a $30,000 gift in 1981. Yes. And it's grown as if if you go to the website, you can see the staff. There's Well, I'm looking at the preserves. Do they have in Lake County, Bayless Dune, Bur Oak Woods, Crestmore Prairie, Gordon and Faith Grinder Nature Preserve, Green Heron Pond, Hidden Prairie and Ivory Wetlands, Ivan Hoe South, and Sidner Dune and Swall Swale.
Swale, what is a swale? Yeah, so Dune, I'm so glad you asked me this. Uh, Dune and Swale is actually a globally rare habitat. Um, yeah, it's it's really unique to the southern Lake Michigan wershed. And so basically um the there are the sand dunes and then they go into swale is kind of this low uh wetland type area and along the the southern lake Michigan watershed you have this this dune and swale kind of um all along the landscape. So it would come off the dune down into that like low mar and then out to beach.
Yes. And then is that kind of how that works? Okay. Yeah. and and then it's kind of um like layers of it or that's that's probably not the the right word. Um but what makes that really unique is you have completely different habitat in the swale area and the dune area if you can imagine because you have um you know the high sandy kind of drier areas of the dunes and then the swailes were like these little wetlands.
Oh. Um and it's it's really unique. Um, unfortunately it's, you know, through history it was really easy to kind of push the dunes into the swelles, so there's not much of it left. Um, oh yeah. Um, cuz when you think about like recreation and like oh people like you know before you know any better and it's like you know it's the 1940s or 50s and you're like more dune like people love dunes. They're fun.
You can roll down them and run up them and the whole nine yards. Wow. So for you though, the Shirley Hines Land Trust is like, I don't know, seven or eight properties in Lake County, seven or eight properties in Porter County, five properties in Leaport County, and one in St. Joseph County. Like that is a ton. That started with $30,000 in 1981.
Yes. And now protects I don't know what the total number is. Four approximately 4,000 acres across Lake Border, Leaport, St. Joseph, and Marshall, and Stark County. Yes. Permanently protected in perpetuity.
Yes. That's wild. That's that's so like when you talk about the work being done, what goes into protecting these lands in perpetuity. Yeah. It's it's a lot. So, um and and actually kind of using Shirley Hines as an example, but this is the story of of many of the land trusts.
It's you know, they are um well, uh one of my favorite projects that you mentioned that's up in Lake County, which is Ivanho South Nature Preserve. It's right in the heart of Gary and at one point that was a property that was slated for development. And then um you know the city uh a project that was supposed to move forward didn't. And so back in the day um Shirley Hines Land Trust their volunteers went out at tax sale and picked up these tiny little parcels because it was parcled off by the city. And so they would pick pick them up by tax sale. And it took I think over I want to say like 25 30 years to pick up several hundred little parcels and then they were able to petition the city to ask them to vacate um the streets.
Um but these volunteers knew that there were um you know really rare plant species and animal species that were out there that were worth protecting. What it is literally Yeah. like right off of uh US20. Yeah. And it's a 10-minute walk from the last remaining public high school for the city of Gary. No way.
Mhm. So, they've been doing a lot of work with with the students and and many of the land trust. I mean, I just love the way that they engage their communities. Um that's, you know, a core part of of their mission and the work they do. Wow. Is a lot of this volunteers fitting this in in their free time.
are there full-time staff members and like yeah, you talk about them like going out to tax sales and buying these uh these parcels like what's the the work that's being done by land trust today in Indiana to preserve nature for future generations? Yeah. So, um, many of our regional land trusts, um, for example, like central Indiana Land Trust or Silty, um, they have paid staff. Um, so they have been able to evolve in that way. Um, and Land Trust work with willing land owners. So basically um they they have a sense right of of the geography that they work in and and know okay here is you know historically where a wetland is or might have been um or you know we know that there's this forested area.
So they'll start working with a land owner that um also recognizes that this is a really important piece of property and that there's something special about it. um and they'll start building a relationship with them. And so sometimes that relationship will cross generations. So that they might start having a conversation with a landowner and that land owner says, "You know what? I I want my kids to make that decision or I want my grandkids to make that decision. What's going to happen with this land?"
And then um most of the land trusts will uh many of the properties they've purchased. Wow. So they will um if the if the funding is available now they have had instances where landowners where maybe they haven't had the funding um to purchase a piece of property at the time that a landowner wants to sell. So that landowner might say you know what um I want to do a bargain sale discount or I want to um there have been instances of land owners donating property. I think that it's a good balance, like a good like gut check of in a world that seems to be building and developing where, you know, like again, it's cool to see development happen across the state of Indiana where you get, you know, a new building or a new community built or more people get to experience downtown Carmel, Indiana. I think that there is a time and place and like that piece of it.
But then on the other side, there is like a point where you need to preserve the like natural beauty across the state of Indiana. And so talk to me about how why the work you're doing is important, why more people need to know about Land Trust and and the people that are out there every day working to preserve the Lake Michigan shoreline for 100 years from now. You know, you raised a lot of really good points. I think, you know, one um those of us who love the outdoors, we love the nature aspect, right? Like we understand that Indiana is um uh you know, that the plants and animals that that we consider part of our home, right? That in order to uh keep them here that we need to protect the land, you know, they need certain habitats that have to be, you know, a certain size.
They have to be able to birds have to be able to migrate. Um, beyond that though, as we continue to be so successful with economic development, you know, more and more people are wanting to be able to um, you know, get outside in their community. And so, in order to, you know, attract the talent that we want to attract for these businesses, in order to retain them, it's really important that we are providing these spaces and these beautiful landscapes that they're being attracted to. that that's available to them, you know, that they don't have to travel long distances, that that that's something they can experience here. Yeah. How did you end up going to work at Ilpa uh from Shirley Hines?
Yeah. So, I uh also I did not realize that there was this incredible community of land trust in Indiana until I started working at Shirley Hines. and um the opportunity came up to uh you know learn about what they're doing and um get to know them better and I I felt like I had learned a lot at Shirley Hind. So to be able to uh take that out to the other organizations and um be a part of what they're doing. Yeah. When you talk about what you were learning, you you learned a lot.
How long were you with Shirley Hind? So I was there for four years. So four years. You talk about you learning a lot. What are the what were the lessons that you were learning? I mean, clearly you guys were doing clearly that organization has been working because if it started with $30,000 in 1981 and today protects over almost 4,000 acres across that northern Indiana region, like that clearly something has to be going well there.
So, from either development or opportunities to again acquire more land to steward that into the next generation, what were you learning? So all the land trusts are are really unique and Shirley Hines um one thing that I really valued about them that I that I was a great experience was their collaborations and partnerships. Um so they work with the planning commissions, they work with their local and state elected officials, they work with their schools, they are um you know they just did a project with the Northwest Indiana Forum which is the economic development group there. So um they they have figured out a way to um you know pull in all these different stakeholders. Yeah. Which at surface level you would think land trust and economic development might sit across the table from each other and not be on the same page versus like hey you want to attract businesses and top tier talent.
You're going to need green spaces. are going to need the natural beauty of places because it isn't just about your apartment building or where you work and are productive. There also is this I mean now probably more than ever of like city parks and state parks and recreation and ways that you can I don't know escape some of the concrete jungle of places at times and and see and experience nature. So that is really interesting because I do think that the average person would think u on service level nature and economic development do not go hand in hand and are more adversarial than uh collaborators. I think that's one thing that I love about our community is we're always looking for ways to work together and you know we also recognize that there are um you know the economic development is important. and it's important to our state.
Um, but at the same time, we think that everything should be strategic, right? So whether it's strategically protecting land or also strategic economic development, um, and and how that all fits together, you end up switching, I would say, or or coming over to work for the Indiana Land Protection Alliance in July of 2021, I believe. So you've been there for 5 years. I mean this has been a uh I mean a wild five years I would say given you're in the you know the decline of kind of like the pandemic COVID times where I mean outdoor recreation was humming along that time too you know you have this boom in development of multifamily communities you have development of again the economic development that's happening across the state while people are also interested in and it is that like the sense of uh you it's Yes. And it's like I want more people to live in my place and I want good outdoor recreation.
And sometimes that can be a hard balancing act. And we're at a time where other lands across the state of Indiana are being looked at by large tech companies all across the United States to come in and and put all sorts of development that way. So it seems like an interesting place to be in the land protection part of uh of uh of the world. And where do you see like are there like crown I don't want to say crown jewels but are there like iconic spots where it's like yeah like you go and visit this spot like most people in the state of Indiana have probably heard of that's not a state park that's protected by a land trust that you know thousands and thousand tens of thousands of people visit every year. It's hard to pick a favorite, right? Like we have the caves and car systems which are down in southern Indiana.
You have huge huge wetland complexes. Some of them are are leftover, you know, remnant wetland complexes. Yeah. Um so when I I talk about that, I think of, you know, especially northern Indiana. Well, cuz Okay, that's like the Kangaki River area. Didn't that didn't this I think I saw a documentary.
I haven't watched it yet. Everglades of the North. It's amazing. You should see it. I should see. Okay.
But was it all at one point wetlands that then? It was a half It was over half a million acres. It was So, this is like the Kangaki River Valley, right? Yes. Like that whole area of I don't know what I mean. It's like leading up into the Chicagoland area.
Yes. Like the region and it was over half a million acres of wetlands that were it was man-made drained. Yes. I like to think that we and this is you know we all learn. I think there was a time when um uh you know we weren't really sure what the value of that that was. Um but yeah, it the wildlife that it brought um apparently it's been referred to as like Chicago's food pantry at one point because they had so many people coming over and hunting um because the the the wildlife was just so Yeah.
I mean I need to go watch this. Uh I've seen some like clips or some like pieces of the documentary. is it's a documentary, right? Yes. It looks amazing. It's awesome.
And yeah, I mean, so so in time, you know, uh we're we're we're constantly learning. Um which is why the work that we do is so important, right? Like it's it's hard to say like um you know, yes, looking back, it would be amazing to have to have that complex, but that's why it's important that we are able to protect, you know, what's left. Yeah. Well, it is interesting to think about where it's like you don't know what you don't know. this is I mean I don't know what year that was.
I know it was a long time ago and it's like you don't know what's going to happen if you do this that or the other thing. Um and so it is important to the part that I I've really that's resonated with me about what you guys are doing with um land trust is you're thinking about perpetuity. you're thinking about forever and you move I mean we would all move a lot slower and make be a lot slower to make hasty decisions if we were always thinking about 150 years from now like largely I'm thinking about like 10 minutes from now you know like oh am I hungry today you know but not thinking about what I'm going to have to eat or where I'm going to be doing or you know how my body is going to feel 75 years from now so that is super interesting okay um you I know you mentioned mentioned a few. Are there ones near central Indiana? Like I'm trying to visualize like if I've been on a property that is protected by a land trust somewhere here like what do you know what I mean this is kind of like a niche question but what the most visited land trust protected property in Indiana is.
Um I I mean it really depends on the community because they each have properties that are well visited. So, um, Oliver's Woods, uh, which is right here in, um, Indianapolis. Is that over on the east side? Uh, it's on the north side. Yeah, I know this one. Yeah, it's kind of like by Keystone.
It is. It is. Yeah. So, uh, Oliver's Woods. You have Sergeant Road Nature Park, which is a really cool, uh, property, um, off of Sergeant Road on the north side. Um, you know, if you go a little south in Bloomington, um, Sycamore Land Trust has enormous, uh, wetland complex.
They protect blossom bottoms. I had seen the Sergeant Road Nature Preserve before, but I I didn't know what it was. I was driving. I was like, "Oh, cuz it's kind of like in the Lawrence like gist area, like just north of Fort Ben." And I was like driving through there and I was like, "What is this place?" Uh, super cool.
Yeah. a ton of Okay, that now it's clocking. So, yeah. And that's a Mud Creek Conservancy property. They protect um they have different properties along the Mud Creek corridor. Oh, if you're into food, this is something you're going to want on your [music] calendar.
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Come experience global flavors, [music] free food, live music, and festival fun. So if eating your way through a food competition sounds like a pretty solid weekend, check out the World Food Championships October 15th through the 18th right here in Indianapolis. [music] Grab your tickets at worldfoodchampionships. com. And they have a special offer. If you enter code 25 indie at checkout, you're going to get 25% off all the tickets.
Parking and pizzafest not included with the discount. Go check out the World Food Championships. It's going to be an [music] awesome weekend. Now, let's get back into the show. So, how did you know that coming over to work for the Indiana Land Protection Alliance was the right move for you to go from one specific land trust to kind of working across the alliance? Um, I didn't, but I [laughter] Nice.
Of course. Yes, that checks out. Um, no, I I saw a lot of opportunities because that they're in a very um uh they all work in this very uh niche area, right? I don't want to say they're not siloed, but they're in very specific geographies, many of them. Um, and they are lean organizations. And so I I I saw this opportunity to bring them together as peers.
Um which they already I don't want to they already were calling each other and asking questions and um but uh I I I felt like as peers there was more that they could be doing um to support each other. Yeah. Um and that's really what ILBA a huge part of what we do is where we bring them together um conferences, trainings, um workshops, um even just a providing a space for them to talk about the the challenges or opportunities that they see um and ways that they can be doing more together. Yeah. Um, a big piece of I mean recent announcement, right, was working with the Lily endowment and I believe you guys secured a half a million dollar gift for Yes. Ila.
Yes. Which is amazing. Like one, how lucky are we to have the Lily Endowment here in the state of Indiana focused on all sorts of causes from I mean literally every type of cause. Uh but for it to I mean put a pretty big investment I think that I saw that was one of the largest or the largest fundraising donation piece that you guys have ever had. Yeah. I mean it it's transformative for our organization.
So talk to me about what that means and what what kind of impact you guys can make with that. Yeah. So um it's a capacity building grant um but it's it's unique because it's capacity building for our organization but also very outward facing to the land trusts as well. Yeah. Um, what does that mean? So, if you were like explain to me like someone who knows nothing about nonprofits.
So, I have been the only staff person um up until uh uh February. Um, so we hired a second full-time staff person in March and I'm sorry, in May. Um, and then February, we hired um a part-time contractor that had been with us for a while as a part-time employee. Um, so it helped our own staff capacity. Um, and what is the work for from you guys as an alliance perspective? Like you're not out there like rolling your sleeves up doing conservation work at and at the properties at the the trusts, but you're more uniting and and advocating on behalf of them.
Yeah. So, we are um I guess you know I tell people it's like what you would think of with a typical state association. You know, we're providing technical support. Um, so for example, we do a three-day stewardship gathering for all the stewardship professionals. Um, what does that mean? So all of the people that take care of the land, we bring them out for 3 days and it's it's, you know, a a full agenda of everything from how to write a prescribed burn plan, how to um how to conduct an environmental assessment, where was the most recent one at?
Uh so we did do that one in northwest Indiana. Yeah. Um and then this next year we're doing in southern Indiana in partnership with Sycamore Land Trust and Indiana Carse Conservancy. So we like to partner with the land trusts that are in that region um to help us identify what some of those um speakers and presentations that you know with partners that they have in that region. Wow. So you basically bring together um a bunch of uh just like land enthusiasts and stewards and conservationists for like their annual conference.
Yeah. I mean it's it's law and we do do an annual conference too. So that's a little separate. Um but the stewardship gathering is really focused on the people that are the boots on the ground. So they are your ecologists. They are your botonists.
They are the um the people that are leading the uh plant and animal monitoring at the properties. They're doing the prescribed burns. They're pulling the invasives. Um they're doing the tree plantings. Um wow. They're, you know, helping with trail maintenance and design.
Here's a question for you. I just passed this the other day. All right. Do you know of Big Oaks National Wildlife Refuge? Yes. This is like the old Jefferson proving ground.
Like one I've I stumbled upon this on my way down to Madison, Indiana. It's like the world's largest fence or like longest fence. The fence is like 10 miles long that like puts us and in the on the fence they say like I don't know like forgotten ammunition. There's something that says ammunition on the fence and I'm like what is this place? Come to find out, it's called Big Oaks National Wildlife Refuge. It was like an old uh I mean I think a military base or military testing ground where they would test different munitions there that then became a nature preserve and it is massive.
Is that part of a land trust or is this like if they're a natural or national wildlife refuge? Is that like another national organization that's part of that? Yeah. Yeah. So that's part of the that's part of the the federal government. Oh, this is part of like uh what do they call like parks and wildlife or what do they wildlife and Yeah, like US fish and wildlife.
US that's Yes. That so this is like a more more of like a uh government-owned property. Yes. Ah, okay. Different. But the fence is is so long that I was asking questions.
I was just like, "What is this place?" I literally put a video out on TikTok saying I finally I finally drove around it long enough that I found the front door like the gate of it and I read and then looked it up. But before it it was like 15 minutes I was driving with just this fence and I'm like what is this place? That's wild. Okay. So you guys are doing a lot of work as you are the the association of of the stewards of this land.
Now, one piece I want to get into, natural beauty is not a synonym with Indiana. People think of the state of Indiana and they think cornfields and, you know, square one mile or one mile squares and flat and bl for you, I mean, being involved with this from north to south to Lake Michigan to the Ohio River. What do you think about Indiana's natural beauty? I mean, it's it's special. Um, you know, I I get uh sometimes I get a little frustrated because I'll hear people say, "Well, we don't have oceans and we don't have mountains." Um, but if you drive from northern Indiana to southern Indiana, you can see that that the geography, the landscapes, um the natural areas are are totally different.
And if you um you know go to other states that that have might have mountains um you know one thing is they don't have the diversity of all those different ecosystems that we have. So Indiana actually has the second most national natural landmarks in the country. What does that mean? NA natural national landmarks. Yeah. So that's a federal designation.
Um, and it's basically, um, it it was a program that was created to recognize sites that best represent the ecological and geological history of the United States. Wow. We have 30 of them in the state of Indiana. We do. So, I mean, when you think about Indiana and its its size relative to a state like California or Texas, I mean, that's that's amazing that we have the second most. And I think that really speaks to all of the again the incredible um diversity of um systems that we have here.
Wow, this is crazy. I'm like looking up the Did you know that we have the Ohio Coral Reef as like across from uh Clarksville, part of the a coral community in the Ohio River as part of the Falls of the Ohio National Wildlife Conservation Area? I did not. But that makes complete sense. Coral Reef [laughter] of the Well, I mean, that's insane. again.
I mean, literally, um, so for example, people don't know that we have over 40 species of native orchids in Indiana and Hawaii, just to put this in perspective, has three, which is the orchid isle state. What? We have 40. We have over four. We actually have So, we have 42 native. We have 43 that call Indiana home.
And the one's non-native, but you know, we like it because it's an orchid. So, here we go. Listen to this one. Hanging rock and Wabash Reef in Lro, this is in Wabash County, contains an impressive natural exposure of fossilized coral reef dating from the Saluran period some 400 million years ago. The limestone reef deposit rises 75 ft above the river and is being undercut by it, giving the site its hanging appearance. What?
This is crazy. Hanging rock. That's nuts. Oh my goodness. That's so cool. So, we have the second most What's the first one?
Do we know who the Actually, don't know that off the top of my head. I'm sorry. California is number one and we're number two with national natural landmarks. That's awesome. Okay. I think you have a road trip just already.
ready list. I think that they have 37 and we have 30. Yeah. I mean, and think about the size of Indiana relative from a to California. Yeah. It is interesting if you go from the Lake Michigan shoreline to just like the general lakes in like north central Indiana kind of up to Angola and Fort Wayne area over there.
And then as you start coming further south from like the different fertile farm grounds that you have through there to then like the White River and the Wabash River all the way down through where you know you start to get to like Martinsville and you start to get more terrain more ups and downs kind of like the gateway to the south like the little the little Smokies and then you get down into like Oannon Woods in that area then down along the Ohio River. It is crazy. I don't know a ton about like climates slash like uh ecosystems, but you can just look and if you've made the trip throughout the state, you can see a lot of different things. Oh, yeah. I mean, I I know that Indiana they they call the state the crossroads. Um, but we think of that in terms of ecosystems because you do you have the the glacial lakes up in northern Indiana.
You have the sand dunes. You have uh remnant forests, caves and cars. I mean, it's like old growth forest. Um, besides, so I'm going to say besides northwest Indiana, because obviously you've spent a lot of time up there around Lake Michigan, what are your favorite places to visit throughout the state? Yeah, I mean, I I think everybody needs to go to visit an old growth forest in southern Indiana or um the Glades area um is really really beautiful. Um if you are in um you know any of the the river corridors, you're going to find really really special habitat um up in again like northeast Indiana getting up to the the glacial lakes.
Yeah. Um what is an old growth forest? It's a late successional ecosystem um that's developed over you know 100 to 250 plus years without huge disturbance. Oh. So, you know, there hasn't been um like a massive um you know, it hasn't been totally clearcut. Yeah.
Hasn't been logged or whatever. It's not, you know, uh reforested um like old school. This has been this way. Giant trees. Wow. That's how I felt down near Cordon in the Oannon Woods State Park, I think is what it's called.
The trees were just humongous. It felt like I was in, again, I never been to the redwoods, but the redwoods of Indiana. That's what it felt like driving into uh into Cordon down in southern Indiana. Very cool. And I haven't been to um you know, when you get into kind of um sorry, West Central and kind of uh uh southwest Indiana, we have Cypress. Oh, trees.
Posey County and Seymour and Evansville kind of down in that area like the Twin Swamp State Nature Preserve in Posey County. I'm looking forward to um we have Wabash Land Conservancy uh which is uh kind of west central and so they have a new um hiking trail at Bushnell Woods I think is the name of the nature preserve. Um so I'm looking forward to getting out there. What do you think the biggest misconception is around land trust in the state of Indiana? people think that we are, I think, as you put it, like across the table or across the aisle from economic development when really we work really closely with a lot of those folks. Um, and you know, see the value in um doing things together strategically.
The other big misconception is that we protect any land. Again, I you know, land trusts have to be very very thoughtful because they are not, you know, because they are nonprofit organizations. They're small nonprofit organizations that um you know they any project area, any property that they protect um they're promising to do that forever. Um and so that's you know they can't protect everything. I think there is a a piece to you know they all have different visions, values, missions, right? You talk about from riverlands to the oh gosh what was it?
Swailes. Oh tunan swale. swale, you know, like protecting different pieces of that versus farm ground and agriculture. And there's just a lot of different um ecosystems and like I mean even look at the ground like the soil that is up in Leaport County is different than the soil that's in Monroe County and it just it is wild and I think that it is a huge miss when people are like oh Indiana's all flat in cornfields, right? And and I think that that's, you know, that's our own storytelling that I think that we're all trying to work on, you know, because Indiana is amazing. Yeah.
Absolutely. Um I do want to know, so you're not originally from Indiana? No. How did you end up here? Um I went to law school in Chicago. Yeah.
Uh which is where I met my husband who's who's from Indiana. So how long have you called Indiana home? Yeah. So I uh first moved to Indiana in 2011. Oh wow. Okay.
So, you're 15 years of calling Indiana home. And why why do you call Indiana home? What do you feel is special about the state of Indiana? Yeah. Uh, you know, again, part of it is and and we love traveling. We love going um, you know, to different national parks.
Um, but really to be able to come back here and get outside and you can drive an hour in the state and the the natural systems that you'll find are just totally different, right? Than if you go another hour south. Um, and and you know that's different than we just spent days in the desert, right? And so you just are looking at the same landscape out there, whereas Indiana you have um different landscapes. But I also, you know, there's been a lot of good work done, but there's also a lot of opportunities here. You know, only uh 4% of Indiana's land is um uh public land.
So, most of the land is is privately held. So, the opportunities to be able to um to recreate there there's still a lot more land that can be and places that can be protected. Oh, that's interest cuz there is a huge like national conversation around public lands that I feel like is largely not a huge discussion here in Indiana because we have it is not largely public land that is being used for recreation. It's like whether it's I mean you go out like further west and it's like people are hunting on public lands and they're running and they're hiking and they're fishing and they're doing all these things. That's not necessarily a huge just part of life in Indiana, which is interesting. It is.
And I I think that that creates though these really unique opportunities because the way conservation happens here is totally different than you might see in other states um for the reasons that you just said. We might h we don't have these, you know, tens of thousands of acres necessarily that are protected in a national park, but what we do have is we have state agencies, federal agencies, local government, and then nonprofits that are helping to um to supplement and be a resource. and um all of these organizations and agencies working together to protect the special places because we don't have huge amounts of of public land for folks to be able to go out and do these things which is why the work that land [clears throat] trusts do is so important. Yeah. Right. you think about I mean there is a huge conversation across like the internet um in places like Oregon and Colorado and different spots like that like hunters like it is almost you know um 100 I don't know I don't want to say 100% but like the average hunter in Colorado is hunting on public lands versus like someone's private versus in Indiana it's like oh you have to get permission from whoever owns the land and you go out and you put your tree stand up and you do your whole thing there.
So, like I was like seeing these conversations on the internet and I'm like what are they talking about like save public land? What are we talking about? Like that is not a a thing because Indiana is that's such a small percentage. Like I can't imagine someone going to a state park in Indiana or a national park in Indiana uh and being like, "Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to hunt here this weekend." Like that just doesn't doesn't like equate. It's like, "Oh, this is like a public space where uh I don't know.
Is that a thing? Do people hunt in Can you hunt in state parks in Indiana?" Yeah. No way. Really? Yeah.
you I mean they have um you know specific seasons most of the state park um hunting is like red like for conservation. Yeah. So um well hunting is for conservation but um is uh you know so we have these things called reduction hunts. Yeah. Um, so for example, uh, the deer population because they don't have a natural predator in Indiana, uh, you know, if they become overpop populated, the the the populations can become unhealthy. Yeah.
It's just like the ecosystem, right? Talking about that's like such a hard place, too, to like just to be constantly monitoring all of those different things. But just talking in general about Yeah. You talk about 4% of the land in Indiana is owned by the public used for recreation. like that. Definitely I can see how you know being in a spot where you're working with land trusts all the time of Yeah.
You know, having these uh these properties where people can go out and experience all the beauty that Indiana has to offer. I love it. Yeah. And and they're community spaces, you know. I think that's what I I like about I love so much about the work that we're doing is um we work so closely with the communities um and this is a priority for them. Yeah.
And it's a priority for again you talk about being on working with economic development like a big piece that you hear people talk about is like livability, quality of place, green spaces, like all of the different things that you can do besides just retail and restaurants that are going to, you know, abide people's time and help them stay sane in uh in the world where we're always on the internet. Sometimes getting outside and going and walking in on a dune is just what the doctor ordered. Absolutely. I mean, that's why, you know, I think many of the major companies in Indiana, um, they see value that the work that Land Trust are doing, they partner with a lot of them, um, because they know that their employees care about that, you know, they want to keep their employees happy. Amazing. Well, we come to the final part of the show where we talk all things Indiana.
The first part is uh, your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? [laughter] I know you want specific places, but really I I'm going to give you more um landscapes that people have to hit. Yeah. So, caves and car systems in southern Indiana. Caves and what?
Carse. Cars. What does that mean? It's a it's a very unique uh geological feature. Oh, yes. So, uh when water dissolves it, these special unique features are are formed.
So you might have some uh sink holes or it it's basically like an underground drainage network. This is like uh Mingo cave. Yes. Yep. That is like a I'm like looking at the picture and it's like that looks like verbatim of Mingo Cave. Okay.
Caves and car systems. Okay. What other ecosystems do we have to hit? Yeah. I mean going and seeing some of the remnant wetland complexes um which have you know for example bogs. There are bogs in Indiana with carnivorous plant species.
Um, a lot of those are in kind of the northern Indiana region. Yeah. Getting out and and being fully immersed in an old growth forest system in, you know, central and southern Indiana. Um, if folks haven't been up to the glacial lakes up in [snorts] northeast Indiana, um, and, uh, you know, those are those are some of my favorite places. Those are great. Mhm.
I you don't pick favorites which I appreciate. Uh these are just the general uh what do you get a word for it? The general landscapes. Landscapes. Yeah. Those are a few of the different landscapes in India.
I mean that would be a good list of just like how many different landscapes are there? Cuz there's a ton. There are a lot. Yes. Yeah. I mean yeah you don't get the second most populous national natural landmark uh in the United States if you don't have different landscapes.
Absolutely. Next, this is your opportunity to help us find new guests or learn about other people who are doing cool things. Who's a Hooser we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things. One of my good friends, Nicole Barker. Yeah.
She works for Niki, which is the railroad. Oh, and she's the director of capital investment and implementation for Niki. Actually, I think she has since had a I think her title has been maybe that director's title. Yeah. director of capital investment and implementation of NICD. Um but she was um she basically led the double track project.
Yeah. In northwest Indiana that um helps to um make the rail line more efficient uh to create that connectivity between um from Southbend to Millennium Station. Yeah. The Southshore, right? M and this was a huge I mean $650 million double track northwest Indiana project which spans over 26 miles. That is a huge project and huge undertaking that is super important of like keeping those two areas connected and and really uniting I mean it pains me to say it but uniting that that region in with Chicago and uh I mean now yeah you have people that live in that region that are working in downtown Chicago and taking the train.
Absolutely. Well and I mean um so so what I love about Nicole and I think this is a great example she's a conservationist. She actually came from uh she was with Save the Dunes. Um [laughter] that's awesome. And um so you know in in addition to moving the project forward, she was tasked with doing it in a way that would have you know the least impact on the sensitive habitats and ecosystems up there. Yeah.
Which is a like a a total example of again it's not across the t the table being adversarial. it is how do we both have this economic development of this double track train and how do we bring um do it in a way that protects the spots that are there in the environment. I always tell people uh you know what's something that's really unique kind of a unique story about the train and the parks and the trails and the natural areas up there. So, um there was a there's a trail that runs adjacent to the train and it also serves as a right of way for Nipkco, uh who does a really great job of restoring the areas along the trails, native plants. So, you can see um Lupin and um all these incredible uh um uh native milkeed and um growing along. And this trail also connects the state park with um the Indiana Dunes National Park.
Um and it is the trail itself though I believe is county owned. Um so you have all of these different groups that work together right in this one um area. And this is I think very um this is just one example of the different types of collaboration that happens up there. Um but anyways, I would go for runs along this trail in the evening and sometimes if the train would go by and it blows its whistle, which is really really loud. Um but the train would blow its whistle and uh often times there would be a band of coyotes that would respond to the whistle. What?
What? So, you know, here you have this unique situation where you have this this rail corridor that's both a passenger and cargo, both freight, right? Passenger and freight. You have a uh utility ride ofway. You have a national park, a state park, a county trail, and you know, all working together in a way that wildlife like Bands of Coyote um can thrive. Wow.
That there it is. That's the whole story of how do you bring all these groups to the table? How does everyone get working to achieve these in ways that's being good stewards of the land of Indiana while also, you know, pushing forward some economic prosperity and keeping the bands of coyotes happy uh across the state. That is wild. What trail is that? I think it's the Dunes Calat Trail.
the Dunes Calume which I believe ties into the uh Marquette Greenway um or it's close to it which uh the Marquette Greenw runs from Michigan to to Chicago. Yeah, it'll run you from the national park to the state park. Yes, the Kohl's Bog area because again the the national park has these um kind of disjunct multiple uh cool properties throughout the area. That's wild. I feel like there's like a whole episode I need to do on just like the dunes in that area of like the the wildlife and everything that's up there and just like yeah that whole coastline of Lake Michigan would be a really interesting deep dive of history to do. You're also making me think another person you might want to chat with at some point is uh Christine Livingston's another good friend of mine.
Um she's the president CEO of Junes Tourism. and she just launched a new um uh kind of branding campaign uh called Sand and Steel. Oh, I like that. Sand that is Northwest Indiana. Hey, this has been so fun getting to learn more about uh the Indiana Land Protection Alliance, the work y'all are doing with land trusts and how how there are a group of people out there in the state of Indiana that are focused on not just preserving the lands of Indiana for our kids, but in perpetuity for your kids kids. I don't know, that'll probably be the year 3000 or whatever it is.
But I do think that there is um it's good to know that there are people that are focused on that. Uh if people want to learn more about the alliance, if they want to learn more about different uh land trust across the state of Indiana, how can they do that? Uh yes, so they can go to our website. Um but I would really in addition to learning about ILPA, I would really encourage folks to get to know their their local land trust. Um and there's all kinds of volunteer opportunities. Many of them do programming throughout the year.
Oh, and I would be remiss if I didn't mention we are highlighting events that happen August through October. So, Land Trust put on lots of events. Um, so we're calling it Land Trust Days. Oh, I love that. Amazing. Well, hey, thank you for coming on.
Keep up the great work and go out there, visit your local land trust. Go out there, explore one of the different landscapes that Indiana has, and we'll talk to you soon. Sounds good. Thanks, Nate. This [music] episode was brought to you by Accounted For Indiana CPAs who built the firm they wish they had existed [music] when they were growing their own businesses. Forget hourly billing and slow responses.
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