I have tried really hard not to just go out and attack my opponents, but rather try to tell the people of any the good things that I will do in this role because that's the focus that it needs to have. Winning Secretary of State is important [music] about ballot access that can start to make a real impact in local elections. [music] Can we do the job of managing a statewide team, a statewide budget, and making sure that our elections are secure? That's the questions [music] you should be asking. How does it feel to just be thrown into what's become the most high-profile election? From South Bend [music] to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Who's Your State and the incredible stories happening here today.
I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for [music] today's conversation. Before we get into today's show, if you're looking for an excuse to get out and explore Indiana this fall, take a day trip down to [music] Jackson County. You can spend the morning out on the trails, taking in the fall colors, explore some of the area's history, find a good local spot for [music] lunch, and make an entire day out of just seeing what's around the next corner. And that's what [music] really makes Jackson County a great day trip. You don't need some huge itinerary. [music] There's plenty of good food, outdoor spots, small town history, and places to explore at your own pace.
So, [music] pick a Saturday, get in the car, and just go see a part of Indiana you might not know yet. Start planning your trip at Jackson County. com. Now, let's get into the show. [music] My guest today is Lorie Schillings, and she started Pirate Smile Media in 2000, built the business, and eventually returned to school at UND, where she earned her bachelor's degree and work for the school's marketing office as a creative director. Although it was an unconventional path into politics, she became chair of the Libertarian Party of Hamilton County in 2021 and hasn't looked back since.
In 2024, she ran as the Libertarian candidate for Indiana's fifth congressional district. And earlier this year, she won the Libertarian nominee for Indiana Secretary of State and is running for one of the most closely watched Indiana statewide elections in recent memory. I'm really excited to dive into everything that it means to be a Libertarian, why this race is so important. Uh win, lose, draw, all the things like down ballot. This is really really an an important election for the Libertarian Party and I'm excited to dive into how one ends up as the Secretary of State nominee for a political party just in general. So Lori, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, Nate. I've been looking forward to this all week. Me too. Oh my gosh. Um I'm really excited to learn more about one like your journey into politics. I think that it's really interesting because your path is non-traditional.
You talk about being involved in the media space in content, like the whole thing. But I mean, you're a later in life graduate, you know, 2023, I believe you told me. Uh, you're now involved in all things libertarian politics. If we even get into it, there's like a little side Twitch streaming action that happens here. Like, you're just I mean, so fun. I've I've already I mean we've been acquainted now for like 12 minutes and I can just tell that you I don't know just really enjoy all the things you're doing and I'm excited to learn more.
Uh tell me about how you got involved with the Libertarian Party. So growing up I had a wonderful example of seeing my father give community service to our little town of Windgate Indiana which is in McGomery County. Okay. Uh south of Lafayette west of Crawford'sville takes 74 out of Indianapolis for those of you who don't know where it's at. Windgate. What high school is this going to?
Uh there's no high school in Windgate. They consolidated. It's North Montgomery. Yeah. South Mont and Crawford'sville. Three different high schools in the county.
Oh, yeah. You're talking the Mounties. You're talking the Chargers. Chargers. Okay. You're a North.
You're a North M. Montgomery. Oh, yes. Wait. South M. North Montgomery.
You You say it completely out. All right. Um Go Chargers. Come on. Go Chargers. Yeah.
And so your dad was a great example of just public service, right? He was a fireman and was a fire chief and dedicated his life for more than 50 years to our community and that work. And it gave me a super example of what leadership is supposed to look like. Yeah. And how you really care for your communities and what that's supposed to be, the selfless service. And you know, growing up in McGomery County, it it was one of those things where there wasn't a whole lot of opportunity at our little small town, but people cared about each other.
Um, and as my time in Crawford'sville, I throughout the years I had the opportunity to take the McGomery County Leadership Academy course in 2009. And that course set us up to be great civil servants, how to be a good servant leader in your community, how to attend government leading uh uh meetings, how to um do good public speaking, how to write well, and to understand how your government actually works. And then I had the opportunity to serve on that board for a few years in uh up until 2013 and established that curriculum. And that was kind of my towhold into what politics really looked like for myself and what I thought it should be. And you know as time moves on getting into the libertarian party, you know, as libertarians joke about to way to get another libertarian is to date a person and bring them in. [laughter] Like you don't birth them.
you kind of like draw them in kicking and screaming. And so I started dating a gentleman in 2018 who was involved and um our second date was awake for the Libertarian Party for a prominent me member. And what a wild second date. Right. Right. Well, the first date's always like let's cover religion, politics, trauma, therapy, you know, the things you're not supposed to talk about.
But as a grown adult, it's one of those things where if you don't cover that immediately, why waste your time? Let's just get it out of the way. That's right. All right. Okay. Hold on.
So, first date you get all all things Libertarian. Second date you're going to the wake of a prominent member of the Libertarian party who had passed and up to that point had you what was your connection to politics? Like obviously you talk about your dad being a great example of like just traditional wholesome small town values but like where would you have said would you have identified before 2018 as someone involved with the Libertarian party? I wouldn't I wouldn't say involved because I didn't really know that you could become a libertarian. I I I identified with their political stances, I would say, more closely than a Democrat or Republican, but you just didn't know what like I really didn't understand what the realm of possibilities were. And so when it was mentioned, I was like, you know what that is actually keenly aligned with everything that I believe about independent uh live your values, live your rights, care for your community, don't let government take over your life.
Don't expect government to to make those decisions for you and you know be allowed to live your life without government telling you how to live it. And that's kind of in a nutshell the libertarian stance in a really kind of adlib way. Um, the other part of that is it's they really hold a non-aggression principle. So, libertarians, you have to take a pledge when you actually sign membership. You get paid $25 a year and you become a libertarian. Um, you sign a membership pledge that says, "I will not use force to get things accomplished.
There's a better way to do it through discourse, through policy, through um community." Right. So, yeah, very much anti-war party. And that's part of the reason I really was drawn to that. Wow. Okay.
So, overarching, if you had to just like summarize the Libertarian Party, obviously we did a little bit there with like what you were drawn into, but like for someone that has maybe seen it before, but has no idea, how do you summarize the Libertarian Party? I will say a lot of people say we're just one party or the other with just like aspects of something else. That's completely untrue. We are very much moderately central. We believe in your rights above the government. And you know, if you're not hurting anybody and not taking their stuff, perhaps the government really shouldn't be involved.
We think government has a purpose. Uh a lot of people think we're anarchists and think we should not have any government at all. That's not true. Uh it they're there to uphold contracts and to provide defense. Um and it should be efficient and functional. And right now we have a lot of extra bells and whistles.
And they're doing things outside the scope as we hear in headlines all the time where it's like, "Oh, they're starting another war." Um, you know, at a theoretical level, I find that offensive that we're going out and causing injury to other people outside of our boundaries of our nation. So, um, I mean, in a nutshell, again, if you're not hurting anybody, not taking their stuff, the government really shouldn't be involved. Wow. Okay. Yeah.
I mean, [clears throat] I have always kind of uh pictured libertarian as very much like the hey, if I'm not bothering anybody, like I just less government, like less oversight, very um in in old school. I hope Chris Bangle listens to this one for he is like uh uh like history. He's now at the historical society and uh mutual friend and uh like LZ fair very much like old school if anyone remembers like learning about the French Revolution in well it's kind of hands off right that's a leadership style right in in organizational management is it's lazy fair where you're like okay as long as you're getting things done I really shouldn't have to interfere with that um and you know the direction of I mean my degree is in community nonprofit leadership so it's kind of a sociology meets social work kind of mix and um sets me up perfectly for politics for some reason. It's so strange. Uh but it it's one of those things where you can kind of look at the course of a group of people in society and say, "How can I guide you to a better end without telling you exactly what that is and have you make that choice?"
Yeah. You know, give you the options that are better for you and see if you will adopt that or do you think that's a good path for you? Wow. So, how did you like officially get into all things libertarian politics? like when you said 2018 you go to awake. Yeah, it's the December of 2018 and then um through that I mean Don Rainwater ran for governor in 2020 and he was in Hamilton County and I was in Hamilton County.
I started going to those membership meetings and he uh I mean I I was his creative director for his campaign that year and he just simply didn't have time to run the party and I was like I can totally do that for you and so I took over the Hamilton County Party. He did do pretty decent. Yeah, he had the highest gubanatorial result in the nation for a libertarian. What uh do you know? Almost 12%. I feel like I remember seeing this.
It was outrageous. Yeah, it was outstanding. So, he is running in this this race for governor and you kind of like step in. It's like, hey, I can do what is running like what is the day-to-day operations of running the party look like? Uh so, you know, it's just like any other business meeting. It's you have regular meetings according to the bylaws.
Uh there's a minimum amount like every quarter. Usually it's monthly. We meet and talk about, you know, how we can promote libertarian values. Um it's kind of a social club mix as well. There's business and social so that people can feel like they have some communion, some fellowship with each other. Um but talk about local politics.
Is there anybody that we can um promote to a ballot that would be willing to run for city local races um at that point? and just we have people who go to city meetings, county meetings, just understand what the policies are, what's being enacted on our behalf, whether we like it or not. Um I spent a lot of time in a land use meeting in Carmel because they were talking about um the master strategic plan for Caramel area and it affected where I live currently and it was one of those things where I wanted some guarantees that they weren't going to try to bulldo my entire community and put in multi-rise housing. M so I spent some time, you know, advocating for the 60 other homes around me during those meetings because no one else really had a voice or weren't able to make it. [sighs and gasps] Wow. Okay.
So, I want to learn a little bit more about how like I mean there like a lot of people believe that it's a two-party system, right? you're either Republican or you're Democrat, which like for the majority of elections, I would say it ends up being one of those two. But for I believe the number is 32 years, the Libertarian Party has had access to the ballot, right? Which like I just want to know. I mean, I know there's a whole big uh shtick to it. Like 32 years ago, like how does somebody get access to the ballot?
So, um, are you talking as a Libertarian or just in general? Um, how did the Libertarian Party get access to the ballot of like having their party on the ballot 32 years ago? So, they went through the same process of gathering a certain amount of signatures for the Secretary of State. At the time, it was like half a percent. So, it has to be for this race. Yes.
Only the Secretary of State's race guarantees ballot access. It's the same for Republicans and Democrats. They just always clear the 10% mark so you never hear about it. Yeah. So you have to get how many 2%? It's 2% to per ballot access.
Major party status is more than 10%. Major party which what does that do? What are the different classifications? Give you a primary access. So you start promoting your candidates in the primary for the general election in the fall. You start promoting your Okay, I got you.
So right now uh it's a recognized party because you've gotten in the last secretary of state race. you had 2% 2% or more and we've maintained that for 32 years as you said since 1994. Um and you know initially it was half a percent and then soon as we cleared that hurdle they made policy that says no you got to make it 2%. And you know because systems of power like to remain in power and they create policy to prevent infringement. So yeah libertarians have cleared that hurdle every four years since that time. Dang.
Look, do you know what that number comes out to roughly? Like how many people do you have to get on the ballot voting libertarian? Uh it it's 2% right now. Like the last four years it was 37,000 votes minimum. Okay. So 37,000 votes in what year would have that been?
2020 20 Oh, in 94 or in 4 years ago? Four years ago. It would have been 22. In 22 you had to get 37,000 libertarian votes. Mhm. Wow.
[sighs] Okay. That's like kind of significant. Not kind of. That is significant. like that. Like this isn't like um I don't know, you know, it's not small potatoes.
And you know, as you know, one of my competitors just had to go spend like almost $800,000, almost a million dollar to get 37,000 qualifying signatures to get ballot access. Yes. Okay. So, I mean, that's the price for access and it's not just for your election. I think this is important, too. like um which I want to talk about just in general like there's one obviously nobody goes into any race not believing they're going to win, right?
Like but there's also second and third order effects that happen regardless of the final outcome of of who becomes the next Secretary of State. Agreed. There's there's a win in every instance. I mean, it'd be amazing if I could clear this race. Yeah. How awesome would that be to have someone independent who answers to the people and really wants to do the job?
And I have no ulterior motives other than to do a good job. Yeah. Um secondarily, valid access for the Libertarian Party. Yeah. And then, you know, as libertarians always say, there's messaging. We have good messaging.
We have good ideas. And a lot of times because we have those ideas and we have a a voice on on this kind of statewide platform, then people will be like, well, you know, that is a good idea. And they'll push for that. Like right now my whole shtick is I'm going to update that website because that's in my bow wick of of marketing design and because it's unfunctional. Like even my own campaign multiple times have had broken links, errors, can't even file our paperwork correctly. You have to file it knowing there's an error for them to give us a response saying there's an error, go to the do this thing instead.
And that's not the way business should work. Nor should our politics. Yeah. And it's one of those things where every one of my competitors has picked up that speech. The website is broken. Yes, it is.
Maybe it'll get fixed finally. I think that uh it's interesting uh when it comes to the Secretary of State office because it really I mean it is it is a lot of that. It's a lot of like does the are elections fair and you know ran effectively like it isn't necessarily a ton of oh do we spend money on you know this thing or that thing and like the traditional sense of politics it's very much like it's a thing that you'd almost I don't want to nobody knows about it until they have to know about it. It is not a sexy office. It's not something you're like oh I'm going to create policy that'll fix things. This office is not a policymaking office.
We administer the law as it's written by the legislature, the general assembly. So, you know, when anybody says, "Oh, I'm going to create policy that changes this and this initiative." And I like I love that for you. If you can get that through the general assembly, great. But you're not writing that. No, you you are a reactive individual in It's a secretary.
Yep. It's a recordkeeping role. Yes. Right. Which is really interesting. Like and I I do think it just shows that like in the state of Indiana uh we don't have a ton of like Hollywood celebrities or we don't have like politics ends up becoming like the thing that people are drawn into.
I feel like somewhat other than sports. Yeah. Yeah. Sports and then I feel like it's polit. So like the secretary of state race has become just like the thing I feel like in this election. It's the only really competitive race I think that has been having so much media because there has been additional faces on the TV.
And I mean that's great because you know competition brings better people to the forefront, better candidates who obviously will either have to know how to do the job or they're going to get kicked out pretty quick, right? Um and it is one of those things where it's so such an important role for the people of Indiana. I mean it it touches everything you do every day. If you own a business, if you go vote, if you buy a car, if you need something notorized, those are the kind of things that this office handles and you need somebody who can do it with precision and care. And um you know, I have tried really hard not to just go out and attack my opponents, but rather try to tell the people of India the good things that I will do in this role because that's the focus that it needs to have. Um outside of poverty, politics in general, somebody who really cares about the work.
Yeah. and and talking about one winning secretary of state is important. Talking about ballot access that can start to make a real impact uh in local elections. Exactly. So, how many offices have been elected or how many libertarians have won an elected office in the 32 years you guys have had ballot access? Oh, I would say hundreds.
There's probably 12 to 15 elected libertarians right now in smaller roles. Uh and appointed as well. So like my partner is on the park board in Morgan County and he was appointed as a libertarian because he's a neutral voice and is really cares about his community. Yeah. So it's one of those things. Yeah.
And are there any uh like big name if you think of libertarians that have won elections in recent years? Like are there any that stick out or that are in the party that are like, "Oh yeah, because four years ago we crossed the 2% hurdle. So and so won as a Libertarian candidate here, right, in like a local election." So there's Clayton Sultz up in Grant County. He's on his I think city councilman role and is doing a great job there. There's Susan Bell uh souththeast of Indianapolis.
I can't I want to say it's Shelby County, but as a judge candidate. Um, and you know, there's individuals everywhere that have tried to run, brought awareness to libertarian situations or have been appointed to various local boards. This year's races are Hagerstown. Hagerstown. Yeah. So, yeah, just to the Southeast.
She's been there for a long time. Wow. That's pretty cool, right? So, it's not just like I don't know. I think they're just not huge races, so you just don't see headlines about them, but they're important in local communities. because those people care.
Because I feel like there is this rise of both libertarian as well as just independent in general. Like that feels like there is a move away, maybe not completely away, but like a lot of people aren't identifying with red, just strictly red or blue. I think because there's such rhetoric in the media right now that that it's people are tired of people just yelling at each other across the table when they have no need to. Yeah. Because they've been told to rather than having a conversation with someone face to face because it's really hard to be mad at somebody if you can talk to them in person. Yeah.
Especially if you don't know them. You just have a a an idea of what they're like according to how they behave on the internet. And a lot of people have what they call keyboard warrior syndrome where they'll show up and talk a big game, but once they're in person, they just don't even they don't even want to talk to you about it. Oh, don't we know it. I've have individuals all the time who make comments online. I'm like, "Hey, let's go have coffee."
And they just refuse to meet with me. Yeah. Um Okay. Well, one of the big pieces that you talk about getting in person, you guys just had the debate. Yeah. Talk to me about Have you ever been in a debate before?
Yeah, we had one at the Hobnob, which is the Indie Chamber one that was up um in Indianapolis uh I would say a couple weeks before that. And we've got another one on the 13th, which will be the Indie Rotary. Uh the one on the 22nd, which is the other Fox 59 debate, you have to be rich to attend. So, it's $100,000 entry fee according to your campaign finances. So, I'm not allowed to go into that. What?
Yeah. [clears throat] So, it's pay to play. you have to have $100,000 filed from your September 30th campaign finance report. And of course, I didn't clear that because I'm a grassroots candidate. I came like $65,000, something like that, total total funds. And I mean, for Libertarian, that's amazing.
But I'm making good use of every one of my donor dollars. I mean, we're running statewide campaigns across streaming media, radio, podcast. There might even be one on this one. We don't know. It's through a a second like company that takes care of it for us. Yeah.
But um it's all important things that we have to do to get the the word out about my campaign and my race. It cost I'm not joking to play $100,000 to be part of a debate. Yeah. You don't pay it to NextStar, who's the mother station of Fox 59 CBS, but it's part of their contractual agreement. You're not allowed to go in there unless you can prove you have $100,000 in your campaign donor fund. Oh.
Oh. So it's not You just have to have money. prove you you've got donor money from people. I got you. Okay. Cuz apparently being rich is the only qualification to being a good candidate.
That's really interesting, isn't it? I think it's a little spicy, but that's just me. That but Okay, wait. I do want to just clarify though cuz I was like, "Oh, you have to pay them." No, you just have to have $100,000 that may or may be used on advertising. Who knows?
Right. It could be for everything. you you know within campaigns you can pay yourself or your staffers if you really wanted to. Yeah. I mean that's part of campaign finance. Okay.
H I don't pay myself. I pay for almost everything. That's interesting. Okay. I'm following now. So you have to have $100,000 reported reported in your budget or in your Okay.
Um Okay. I thought for a second there I was like, "Oh my god, wouldn't that be amazing?" But you Yeah. I mean, hey, I I will hand up I'll He's like, "You're going to have to give $100,000 to be on my show." So, I will host I will gladly host a debate uh for 400 grand. You know, sign me up.
Good for you. You have my vote for moderator, right? So, uh but you did get to go participate in the most recent one, right? And you have a few other ones that are coming up that are not that way. So, talk to me about getting to, you know, be on stage and and go through the whole thing. Like, I don't know.
Debates just seem like high. It's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure because you're like, "Okay, I have a prepared statement that I need to read right away and you have to memorize that because they don't let you bring any notes." So, you got you got to have your script in your head like a good actor and uh you know, you get your points across fairly well. Sometimes you'll miss your mark. But um the worst part is is you're like, "Okay, I'm right in the heat of what I want to say."
And this guy holds up a piece of paper and he's like, "15 seconds." And you're like, "What was I saying? Oh, now I got to remember what I'm saying." Um cuz they want you to be done on time because it's live TV, right? And I mean that's the stressful part of it. What do you feel like were the biggest points of contention at the debate?
I will say one of the big things was illegal voting. People are really concerned about it because they hear day after day after day our our national leadership says there's fraudulent things in our election. People are voting illegally when in fact there's very very little evidence of that and it's we find it because there's checks and balances that are already in place. So the system's working. what for very little of it across the country or very little of it in the state of Indiana. Yes, both.
I do feel like again I don't know anything about anything. I do feel like I see a lot about uh voter voter fraud is so they think oh stolen elections illegals are voting. Well, that's not true because it's already a felony to vote if you're not an American citizen. And you know it again if people sign up usually it's because they thought they could vote but they're not able to. Um and they have found like one or two instances that are actually valid and the people just didn't know they weren't supposed to but they were caught. So the checks and balances were working for Indiana or Indiana.
Okay, we're talking Indiana there. Um because I know that every state also has different requirements of what it is to vote like in Indiana. What are the requirements to be a voter? So you have to be 18. You have to live in an area more than 30 days. Uh you have to be an American citizen.
Other than that, if you are able to vote, then go do it. And you have to register October 5th, 30 days ahead of the general election. So you have to reg like there are some some things you have to do. Um you have to which in other places it's like there's different requirements everywhere. Some it's the same day voter registration. If you are voting that day, you can go register that day.
Some places do that. Now, this is another interesting piece that at the county level, is it the clerk that runs elections? The clerk does run her county election uh with the guidance from the state, but we don't tell them how to do that specifically, but if they need tools and training and support, then we would offer that from the state level. The interesting piece about just like elections in general and security and you know, everything there is a lot of it ends up it's hard. Yeah. Because even as a secretary of state, you're probably distilling information down through an ecosystem that has to go to like the leader of local elections and they're distilling it down to their local hourly employees that sit at the booth, right?
You know, and it's like more than likely, I don't know if you've been to a a polling place recently, but it's like it is busy. It's busy and it's like there's not very many people working it. that the struggle for volunteers is real because a lot of those individuals who are dedicated to that work are aging out. I was going to say it's like someone's grandmother or grandfather there that like can't read [laughter] that well at the first place, right? Well, they're retired. They have time to do it.
They can be there at 6:00 in the morning and work till 6:00 tonight, you know, and I mean, you and I have day jobs. We're not able to go do that all the time. And they need people dedicated who've received that training to show up and do that work. And it's thankless work. I mean, I think there's like a minimal wage that goes with that to do those kind of things. Very minimal.
Yeah, minimal. And then you have poll watchers who are able to come in from uh different parties who can just observe. They're just I mean, I can send people from my county as the county chair. I can sign off you can go be a poll watcher at different locations just to make sure that people administering the elections are doing what they're supposed to do. Uh or that, you know, there's not additional signage outside when there's not supposed to be. But it's like you're you're talking about again starting from the top of whatever from like local elections to clerk or you know talking about the secretary of state that oversees this and it's like it is a game of telephone to get down it I feel like it has to be right to get down to the volunteer worker that is like sitting there and like the actual person checking IDs and like signing ballots and stuff and there's training for those individuals.
They have to complete a certain amount of training and that information is on the Secretary of State's website. Sometimes it's a little buried. You have to dig for it and know it's there. And then we need to do a better job of allowing our clerks to uh dissimilate that. Yeah. To those polls.
So, you're talking about um elections. That's a big piece. What else was in the hot button topics in contention at the debate? Um there's a lot of individuals who want to create new policy like they want to write the laws that will get rid of straight ticket voting or you know change the election board to judges instead of people who are partisan and you know that's written into the law. They would have to do either constitutional adjustments or to create new policy for those things. And that's not the role of the secretary of state.
It's outside the purview. That's for your general election. You can advocate for that, but you're not going to be like, "Hey, I'd like to write this policy and have you institute that." That's not how that works because that's that's creating a partisan role when that's not the job of the Secretary of State. So, there's some of those things that are going on. Um, there's a lot of there was a lot of stink about the the current Secretary of State uh and the things that he's gotten in trouble for.
I mean, anytime this this office is making headlines, it's always always for the wrong reasons, right? It's not cuz you did a good job. It's because you've done something inappropriate. Yeah. No one is ever like This is a thankless job. It is.
Uh and the only way Yeah. I feel like it's been in the headlines is about uh things that have gone wrong, right? You're spending money you shouldn't. You're hiring your family and friends for a lot of money and they may not may or may not be qualified, but it still gives the appearance of an ethical infraction. Yeah. Uh the individual has been traveling overseas.
There's always a big interest of like did somebody else pay for that or do you use campaign funds for that? You know, if he's taking a vacation, take a vacation. Just go do that. Don't assume that it's going to be a campaign or you know, office related event. So, it's just one of those things where um you know it the problem has been going on for four years and the Republican party didn't want to fix it until they knew he may not get reelected. And so that's when they brought in a new Republican Republican candidate and said, "Well, we fixed it even though the issues that were there are no longer being addressed."
It's it's iffy to me. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. How does it feel to just be thrown into what's become the most hope highprofile election? I'm ready for it. Yeah.
Yeah. I try to be hold. I do try to be well spoken about things. Yeah. Um I mean, well, you're nonviolent, right? And you're what was it?
You don't use non-aggression. Non-aggression non-aggression principle. Yes. So it's the nap nap. Um nap. But it's one of those things where you know it if it deserves to be addressed, let's address it, take care of it, and prevent it in the future.
If we have to have an internal policy about how people are supposed to behave, then maybe those individuals shouldn't be in office. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, people expect their public servants to provide service and to and to have good ethic standards. Um those are just the bare minimum. Yeah, it is interesting to like actually dive into what the Secretary of State does and how that aligns with I don't know what's [clears throat] at the top of political party agendas or like whatever you know like it it is like not a law making role.
Nope. This is very much like a administrative very much an administrative role and it has been just very I mean contentious like I mean you can't turn on the TV and it's like every I don't know 5 seconds maybe I'm just like maybe they just have me targeted they know that as someone who is now officially sat down with all four candidates I have talked with for an hour with everyone. Yeah. I don't know if there's I mean there are definitely people out there but I'm just a guy with a podcast that's now talked to all of them. You probably had more facetime with this entire race than everyone else combined because you've had the time to talk to all of us in different ways about different topics. Yeah.
And I don't know. It's like again I just don't know enough about the like true inner workings of politics about like I don't like every single candidate. I I again this is just from my perspective. I've sat here. It's like oh you're all very kind and that's why I just hate and everyone is going to like probably get mad at me for whatever but I just hate that it like how to win a race is so much different than how I feel like people are that makes sense. Well, if you think about if you're going for a job interview, you're trying to promote yourself and the good things that you can accomplish.
You don't talk bad about the other interviewees, right? [laughter] That's not how it really is supposed to be. Uh, and maybe it just feels like extra yucky. Yeah, it is. Politics is a dirty business specifically, right? It's really bad at the local level.
Like really bad. Really? Yeah, it's really dirty. Because you've been a part of local elections before, too, right? Yeah. it it's because you know there's secular groups who have been around for a long time and they're all friends and they do these things and so if somebody new comes along the the scene that actually is really wellqualified and can do the job often times they'll fight internally about how to address that or prevent them from doing their work or to not get them elected.
So it's one of those things where you know it's it's always a fight internally which is kind of bad but um I would love to see the most qualified person for the job get the role. I mean, I've got decades of experience leading business entities, teams, managing budgets, you know, going through all of the things internal with politics, understanding how elections work. And it's one of those things where, you know, when people say, "I'm the only one qualified." That's untrue. That's untrue. Totally.
I mean, all of us have done some sort of work in our life. Can we do the job of managing a statewide team, a statewide budget, and making sure that our elections are secure? That's the questions you should be asking. There it is. I mean, in a nutshell, it's that time of year in Indiana when you don't know if you should leave your house wearing a sweater, a bathing suit, or a poncho. Unpredictable weather can bring unwanted surprise home issues like flooded basement, broken furnaces, leaking pipes, and even more.
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I do want to dive into Yeah. just why regardless of straight winning? Mhm. You know, um what's the biggest office a libertarian in the state of Indiana has won? I'm going to say it's probably like a county judge is going to be one of the highest. So like I'm not gonna let's call a spade a spade.
It's a big undertaking to win. It is. It would be an incred It would be the biggest win for the Libertarian Party. It would be amazing. Yeah. And I'm counting on you guys.
Yeah. There it is. Come on now. Um but just even though even if you weren't to win the entire election, it could still be there's two levels of win that could happen. similar to uh rainwater in the governor's race 12% right like 12% would give you a libertarian primary yes uh next year y so like take me through why the two big numbers are 2% and 10% and why those are so important and how that could affect the state of Indiana for people who might be um questioning if they're straight two parties is right for them right so 2% maintains ballot access the same For every party on your ballot, you have to get 2% in this race every four years to make sure that your party can maintain ballot access. This specific race, only this race.
Other states have like governors, they have the presidential race. I mean, so it's a variable, but Indiana bases their ballot access on the Secretary of State's race, right? Has been since the beginning of whenever. Um, so 2% is important not only for libertarians but for every party, which is why Ballard is very insistent on getting his 2%. I wish him the best of luck. It's a struggle.
Um, yeah. A and is also in a lot of money to even get the opportunity to maybe get 2%. Well, he's got one big donor who's put a lot of money in. Oh, yeah. Not not just him, but um the 10% criteria that you talked about is that gives us a couple different things. primary access which means that in May when you go to select out of 20 people one person gets promoted let like Democrats Bo won that one right out of all the people who put their name in and Max England won that one out of all the people who put their name in libertarians currently do their work at convention which in some people's mind would be a closed primary system because you have to be a libertarian to attend and to vote and to promote your candidate to ballot.
So if we get 10% then in May we would be able to say all right 20 people can run as libertarians but the general public will select the one person who will then go forward to November election right that's wonderful the other part of that is if we get second place in this state in any county even if I don't win the election that opens up election board seats for the Libertarians and it will depose either the Republican or the Democrat depose. It'll remove them from the election board seat. What is that? Uh what's an election board seat? That is the people who will go in at the county level and look at if okay if someone is randomly let's say libertarians and Democrats are the election board seat holders and one of the candidates drops out or retires or passes away unable to complete their duties then the election board at that county seat would then say we can caucus someone in to take that role.
Um, and that's handled by those individuals. It is the people who will go in and look at any discrepancies at the county level and kind of have a deeper understanding of what's going on in the elections in that area. Just like this, the state election board kind of looked at the race recently. It got promoted up to the state level to say who is going to be the winner of this primary election. It's the same sort of thing. So, you just instead of having Republicans and Democrats, you would have libertarians in another party.
M. So it gives us the opportunity to start making those critical decisions at the county level. Wow. Okay. I'm following. So the last time this came around was 2022 and the Libertarian Secretary of State candidate got 5.
7%. So how does it feel like tides have changed over the last four years? And does having a fourth candidate on the ballot help or hurt the Libertarian Party? Um, I think having multiple people challenges all parties. It doesn't just challenge the libertarians. No, I mean, especially I mean, just to put it out in general, like the having a fourth candidate on here is pulling from there's only so many voters.
Like, there's not we already like We would love to activate the 36% who never show up. Those are the people who win the election every single year. Yeah. and I'd love for you to come in and vote and just vote your conscious and vote for change. Um, that's who really will make the difference in every single election and that's who we're hoping to activate this year a little bit. But, you know, I've had I've been running for 18 months.
So, I declared in March of 2025. Yeah. And I've been campaigning across the state all that time with time. I think this is a big piece, too. It's like it's one thing to be able to spend a lot of money. Mhm.
And it's another thing to spend a lot of time, right? And like 18 months is a ton of time, but you are on a very small budget relative to your competitors. Efficient budget. It's a very efficient budget. [laughter] Yeah. We're not we're not budget shaming here.
We're talking about efficiency. I'm still doing the work. We're still getting the word out. We're doing all the important things that we need to do. Um but you know having interfaced with a lot of people across the table at multiple states at multiple county locations and just not multiple states at multiple locations within the state. Um the conversations I have from them is that I'm so tired of voting for the lesser of two evil and I'm ready to vote for someone and I'm very thankful that you're running because you seem to be competent and you're likable and you will do the job that you're supposed to do.
And I'm like I certainly hope so. Right. Um, hard to argue with that, right? And that's the conversations that I've had all the time. And this most recent since since May, since the uh the chess pieces are on the board, I've had even more conversations about that where individuals from both parties who are just dissatisfied with the selection, are looking for a person who is not part of the two-party system, has never been part of the two-party system, and really wants someone to represent their ideals. someone who's not polarized and is just serious about the work.
And I'm here to say I'm stepping up to the plate. It does seem as though every month people just get more and more over the traditional scheme of politics. Well, they tend to think of it as just it's a machine that just grinds them down until they feel like they don't have a purpose in the political climate anymore. and they're just so tired of it that it's it's become polarized at your dinner tables. It's become polarized on the street, at your workplace, and in the media. And it's like how you get people to come to your side is to clear an other.
If they're not us, they must be other, therefore they're bad. And that's not the case. We It should be every one of us against the political machine. It's like a casino. You're playing against the house. The house always wins, sadly.
But let's make a difference. You know, what have you learned about the state of Indiana over the last 18 months campaigning? There's places I have never seen before that are just amazing. Like where Yeah. Um, so I went to New Harmony, which is in the very toe of our state. If you think about the shape, it's at the cozy county, right?
Yeah. Beautiful. I have always I just was in Evansville, but I didn't make it over to New Harmony. I have always wanted to go. So, there's a little coffee shop there that is amazing. And I want to say it's it's Black Forge, but it's based off of Twin Peaks TV show.
Oh, I thought you were going to say the restaurant. No, no, no. Whoa, that sounds like it. But Black Lodge Coffee. That's a Black Lodge coffee. Thank you.
I couldn't remember the name. It's been a little bit. But it was just a remarkable little place. It charming. I could see someone setting their little romance fantasy book in that city and it would just be like a deep mystery. They went to the coffee shop and discovered something, you know.
Well, that's like, you know, the history of New Harmony. No, tell me. It was a utopian society. No way. Yeah, I've learned things today. Okay.
New Harmony. Um, hold on. Let me give you It's called New Harmony, I believe. So, uh, New Harmony, Indiana history. I'll give you the the rundown. Please do.
Um, it Okay, so New Harmony, Indiana is a historic town on the Wabash River and, uh, known for two major 19th century utopian social experiments. Oh my goodness. So number one was the harmonous period from 19 or 1814 to 1824 short period German yeah 10 years they bought 20,000 acres of wilderness built over 180 self-sustaining structures and tried then decided to sell the town and move the community back to Pennsylvania in 1824. Okay. Then the Owenite period which was 1825 through 1827. Welsh industrialists and social reformer Robert Owen and scientist William Mccclair purchased the town for 150 grand to build a secular utopia focused on education and social equality.
In 1826 a boat arrived carrying prominent scientists, educators and reformers. Um who would have known? [clears throat] due to oh due to internal conflicts and labor issues, the communal system collapsed and dissolved by 1824. Somebody always still wanted to be in power, didn't they? It's always comes true. It's interesting time frames.
That's when my uh family uh settled in Indiana is 1824. Wow. Where uh in McGomery County, my dad's family, the Mahairi family has been up there forever. There's a a hall in Depal. I went to Dep Mahairi Hall. High five.
Come on. Wait. Go. That is That is like the the main iconic It's this old thing in East College, Mahairy Hall. I like That's my maiden name. That's my family history.
Uh I bombed my first ever standup comedy routine trying to win a talent show in Mahairy Hall. Yeah, but you know what? You've landed well. Yeah, I guess I've actually only ever done standup twice and I've dunk both times. See, I think I'm a pretty funny person, but I don't think I could do standup comedy cuz I'd forget my my cues. I'd be like, I don't remember.
Uh, and then you just like there's nothing worse than when you like say a joke and it doesn't hit and then you're just like stuck there. Oh yeah. And it's like, all right, well this was similar to New Harmony. A fun social experiment that went horribly wrong. And there's what it is. But the town still looks beautiful.
The architecture is really old-fashioned. Big old rock buildings and kind of neat streets. Wait, where at? In New Harmony. Oh yeah, I need to make it down there. Um, I have heard lots of cool good little like weekend retreat.
Go out there, check it out. If there was an Airbnb, I'd probably go do that. I feel there has to be. That's right. I need to uh I'm just like a sucker for history, so I Any place that has interesting history, I want to go check out. This is 200 years old.
Yeah. Like literally, wait, think about that. Uh 200 years ago, they were like packing up shop almost because someone was trying to the power structure of utopian society. It's always that way. There's I mean you can set up a perfect society but there's always somebody who still wants to be in charge, isn't there? Rough time.
Seems as though um amazing. Well, we've come towards the end of the show where we get to talk all things Indiana. All right. Uh be as we're transitioning, I just want to say for the listener that might not be as well informed about the Secretary of State race or maybe just politics or maybe there's like they see it and it's it's just been overdone for them. What would you say? What do they need to know about everything for the Secretary of State campaign leading into this November election?
Um well, for myself, I mean, I'm a grassroots candidate. I I worked two to three jobs my whole life. I've lived here my whole life. I've raised my family here. Um the Secretary of State trace is important because it handles all of your business structure, all of your licensing. It handles your elections.
It handles your politicians. Um it's one of those things where you need someone who will do the work of the people, not for political parties and not for big donors essentially. So make your choices accordingly. Yeah, I love that. Um, we've come to the part of the show where we talk all things Indiana. So, this question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart.
They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homejcart. com. My question for you, why do you call Indiana home? I have deep roots here. My family's been here since 1824.
Um, I lived in Maryland for just over two years for some work at one point in my 30s. I took a bag of home dirt with me to keep with me just in a jar, you know, like some people bring seashells or something, but it was like I've brought a little piece of home with me. That is hilarious. So, I mean, it's just it kind of reminded me of home. So, I mean, that's why Good soil. You grow any corn in that?
It is some of the darkest, richest glacier soil in Indiana in the McGomery County region. No, we actually just It really is. Uh makes the best tomatoes, by the way. Best tomatoes. There's a glacier melt that runs along the Waw Bash River on the northern side that comes down and heads to the western half of Indiana. Goes for like from Fort Wayne to I don't know that way.
I mean, Call me crazy. Actually, I just did a video about this not that long ago about dirt quality about uh bushels per acre. Okay. Montgomery County. Okay. So corn uh bushels per acre of farm ground and Montgomery County had the third highest uh BPA in the state of Indiana with 220.
4 average bushels per acre. It is lovely. Madison County 220. 7 and Benton County just up there probably catching that same glacial deposit or whatever. Uh they were 229. So I mean it's right there.
We're going to go to the final three questions that we ask everyone who comes on the show. Let's go. Uh, first up is your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? Um, Pine Hills. Pine Hills, which is next to Turkey Run, and it is a very small park walking area just to the side that is just lovely.
It's a secret little wooded glenn that is so beautiful. This is Wavelin, Indiana. And this is out kind of by shades. Yeah. Wow. Pine Hills Nature Preserve.
It's lovely. If you've got a chance to go hike there, do so. Uh it's got Devil's Backbone, which is like a a little limestone ridge next to a gully of river. So, you've got to be super careful. Yeah. Um but it's just a historic site that's been around for a long time.
Amazing. Well, this next question is how we source new guest opportunities and hear about other people that are doing inspiring things. Who's a Hooser we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things. Uh, you know, and I asked you this if you were related earlier, but his name is Chris Spangle. Fun fact, we are not related.
Both in podcast in Indianapolis and Imagine the show. We are I [laughter] mean sounds like a law firm. Spangle and Spangle. Yeah, we could have a great show. Spangle Squared. Oh, S squared.
I mean, one, Chris is just an awesome dude, and he recently got a new gig. Yeah, he was at IBJ. Uh, he was at Bob and Tom for a long time. He went to IBJ and helped uh promote their podcast and broadcasting networks and he's now at the Indiana Historical Society and he's just a remarkable human, which is the perfect job for him. If anyone knows Chris, it's like he is a historian's historian. Yeah.
And there's like early on in podcasting and media like like he he could do a whole podcast about his involvement with like Bob and Tom and Pat McAfee getting a start. He is just always surrounded in greatness if you know what I'm saying. is a wonderful human and he just draws that into him and he's just so genuine in everything that he does and he's not one to go out and make it the me me thing which I love uh as someone who makes it the me me thing you know the world needs Chris Spangles. Yeah. He's always talking to individuals about their life. Yes.
And wanting to know more about them rather than just trying to express himself about his own life. And he he's he's just an awesome dude. Yeah. He's rapping the last name. Well, man, Chris, keep up the good work. Finally, this is a we've switched up this question a little bit.
So, I think we uh I think you might have seen this in the outline, but I want to make sure. You've been I mean, your family has been in Indiana since 1824. You love the Hooser State so much that you took a jar of Montgomery County dirt when you had to move out of out of the state. It's special to call yourself a hooer. It is something that uh not not many people in the world get to bear that honor. But to you, what does it mean to be a Hooser?
I think it means that you care deeply about your community and your family and you care about the outcome for future generations, too. It's not just about me. It's about caring for individuals and making sure that they have the opportunities in life that maybe you didn't have. So, let's try to improve that so they have the opportunity in front of them. Yeah. I love it.
Well, hey, this has been an incredible episode. I feel like I blinked and we we went for an hour, so we can keep going. Yeah, if people want to learn more about you, what you stand for, what you're about, how can they do that? So, I have a website called Lori for Liberty, luri orliberty. com, and that you can find out a lot of things about me right there and about my campaign and what I stand for, my policies, and the things I've done in the past. There's a lot of written work, uh, news and things like that.
Yeah, absolutely. And this is just a reminder in general, we have now had all four candidates on uh regardless of anything, the number one thing is go out there and express your right to vote. Educate yourself, educate me, figure out who you want to vote for if they align with your beliefs. Yeah, I think that uh it is important. We had uh actually not a candidate on we were just talking about just politics in general and it's like something that I feel like we take for granted today that uh I mean I just finished up I I read a lot of like historical biographies and like you read books about people in history that would go on hunger strikes for the vote. They would like go like all of these crazy things, these like very intense emotions to get the right to vote.
And today we have it, right? And I just think that going out there and and remembering that and educating yourself, going in there and whether you're sending in a ballot, you're showing up there, it's a Tuesday, like I'm like I'm not questioning myself to make sure I get the dates and everything right, but go out there, exercise your right to vote. Absolutely. Please do so. If you're registered, take advantage of that because your voice matters. We had an election in Indiana that literally was won by six votes.
That's crazy. Your vote matters. your vote. Every vote counts. That is also I love that spoken as a true candidate for secret. If you are registered and you are eligible, make sure that you uh go out there and exercise your right to vote.
That's right. This has been so fun. It's been great to uh to get to hang out. Um just keep up the good work. I think that regardless of political outcomes, people just need the state of Indiana needs people who are inspired to go out and make a change. Yep.
And so one, I hope that you are just a testament of no matter what background you have, like again, you've been doing this for 18 months, fighting a very uphill battle if we're just calling a spade a spade, right? Like going out there giving up countless hours of time for something that's bigger than yourself is super cool. So I just think that's an inspiring thing to do. We appreciate you and we'll talk to you soon. All right. Thanks so much for having me, Nate.
I appreciate it. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether [music] you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you [music] so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get