How Indianapolis Built Its Own Mini-Coachella

So take the Coachella model. There are people boopping around from venue to venue. There are musicians boopping around from venue to venue. They may be in three or four other bands. Let's keep pushing into that [music] and it be tributes to all sorts of different artists from all sorts of walks of [music] life. Do the song the way you want to cover it.

You know, we're not looking for dead-on covers. That's less fun than doing it the way your band wants to do [music] it. How did you keep the community and doing good at the center? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hooser State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. If your current place is starting to feel a little too small, too far away, or just not quite right anymore, it might be time for a change.

JCR Company has been helping Hoosiers find a place that fits for 50 years. They have more than 30 communities across Indiana, including Hamilton County, downtown Indie, Bloomington, and [music] more. Plus, seven brand new luxury communities. Their teams are there to make the process easy. From finding the right location to scheduling a tour, and getting [music] settled in. And if you're looking for a new career, JC Hart is also one of [music] Indiana's best places to work with opportunities in property management and beyond.

see available communities and open positions at homejart. com. You can also follow @homeisjcart on Instagram to get a feel for life in their communities. JC Hart Company, find a place that feels like home. Now, let's get into today's show. My guests today are Joe Ball and Ken Honeywell.

Now, let's take you back. November of 2002, a dozen bands packed into radio down in Fountain Square with the proceeds from the small crowd going straight to Second Helpings. Ken was one of the people who made that first night happen. As a co-founder of Tonic Ball, he helped build the single bar show into a neighborhood festival that sells out annually, raising close to $3 million for Second Helpings along the way, including more than 1 million raised in just the past 4 years. Now, Joe is the chairman of the Tonic Ball Committee, a team of volunteers that organizes the event every year, coordinates the musicians, curates the tribute artist lineup, and ensures that now in its 25th year, that's coming up on November 20th, that one of Indy's most beloved traditions will remain just that. I'm super excited to dive into how Tonic Ball got started, how it's grown and expanded, and the impact that it's made uh for our central Indiana community along the way.

and we're going to dive into some of your guys' favorite memories of 25 24 now, but soon to be 25 years of fun. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Thanks, Nate. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Oh, man.

So, now I have heard about the legend that is Tonic Ball, but tickets are hard to come by. So, I've actually never been down for the event, but I know that today, like in the modern sense, it's a few different venues down in Fountain Square that each kind of have their own theme. And it's I I mean everyone that I know that has gone down there raves about it, says that it is like a must visit event of the season uh here in Indianapolis. But I want to know where does this whole thing start back in 2002 and where did the idea for Tonic Ball come from? It the idea came about a year earlier. I was in a a community writing workshop and the instructor was Dan Barton who was a writing teacher at Butler and um kind of new in town and he and I were talking after class one day and Dan uh asked me if I knew of this show in New York called the Losers Lounge and I did.

It was a show where a bunch of musicians got together and they uh all covered some artist song and it was really eclectic. It was like, you know, one night it might be Elton John, another time it might be Guns and Roses. It was, you know, just whatever they felt like covering. Um, and he said, "We both loved Graham Parsons and the Flying Burrito Brothers." And he said, "Wouldn't it be fun to do a show of Graham Parson songs and give the money to charity?" And I thought, "Yeah, that would be really fun."

And were you guys musicians? Uh, I can I'm a bad musician. I mean, I can play the guitar a little bit. So, when you say do a show, did it mean like you guys wanted to put on a show and have other musicians play Craram Parsons or did you guys want to actually play the music? No. No.

No. Um, and and I didn't I didn't play uh at that Tonic Ball. Uh, no. It was like fine bands who want to play Graham Parson songs and give the money to charity. Well, about a year after that in 2002, I just thought, you know, that's a really good idea and I was looking for something like that to do. Yeah.

Um so I, you know, wrote up a little plan. I told some friends. Um we put together a committee and um we took it to Second Helpings. Uh my uh the woman who's now my wife, uh her name was Becky Hopewell. Oh, now her name is Honeywell. Hey.

Um, yeah, we took it to Second Helpings and, uh, Jean Pac, who was the executive director, said, "Sure, put on the show. Knock yourself out." Um, and you know, we asked her some years later why she agreed to that so quickly. And she said, you know, a lot of people come to us and say, "We have this great idea for an event you should do, but you came to us and said, we want to put on a show and give you the money." Yeah. Said, "Yeah, okay.

Well, that makes a lot of sense." Sure. It's like even if like 10 people came and you gave them 500 bucks or whatever, it's like that's still a win for someone helping, right? We had the room donated. Uh, Tuy donated radio radio. Um, all the bands worked uh for free.

So, we didn't have many expenses at all. We didn't uh have t-shirts. I think we made some posters and some flyers and that was about all of our expenses. I was going to say, how many tickets is that how you made money then on the first one? Was just sell like, you know, 100 tickets or whatever. Sell tickets.

How many people came to the first Tonic Ball? Um maybe 150. Hey, that's not bad, right? We had a few sponsors, too. We got some a little bit of sponsor money and we ended up uh I think we ended up netting about $4,600. Hey, to have a night of fun with your friends and listen to some music.

And was it Graham Parsons? It was Graham Parsons. Yes. Okay. Now, this is interesting because today in 2026, you feel like there are, you know, there are themed nights all the time all over the place, right? There's tribute bands, right?

Like this is 2002. Was the idea of hosting Taylor Swift night at the Vogue like was that a thing that was around in central Indiana at the time? Not that I remember. I don't know, Joe. I don't know if you I mean I I don't remember that kind of thing at all cuz it's like now you can go to every county fair is going to have like Morgan Wallen cover band that plays Morgan Wallen songs all night, right? Most of what happens out at um Symphony on the Prairie now is tribute bands.

Yeah. Or even like the um the like candle lit violin orchestra that they play like AC/DC or whatever. Like it's pretty cool. But this is a pretty new concept that you guys had had heard about in New York and said, "You know what? We need to do that." And I this is going to show like I like a lot of music.

I'm a very uh musically inclined person, but I I like don't get I don't have like a lot of wit when it comes to it. So, I don't even know what Graham who Graham Parsons is or what that band is, and that's probably a shame on me. Uh but like was this like a very popular band back in the early 2000s? No, not really. Um he was a member of the Birds for one album that was a a very influential album called Sweetheart of the Rodeo. Okay.

Uh then he and another couple members of the Birds left and they formed the Flying Burrito Brothers. Great name, right? And they were um they were a big influence. And then he left the Burrito Brothers um for a solo career. He discovered Emmy Lou Harris. They uh went on tour together.

Uh he died really young uh 27 or 28. Um but he was very influential. There would be there would be no Eagles without the Flying Burrito Brothers. There would be no Eagles without Graham Parsons. He was a he was kind of a country rock pioneer. Oh, what's now called Alt Country?

Yeah. Wow. Well, one, like the diehard fans that come and listen to this episode, they're going to be like, "Oh gosh, Nate is so uncultured." But hey, thank you for educating me on Graham Parsons. Uh the Flying Burrito Brothers, great name. Like, let's just call that what it is.

Spectacular. So, you guys put on that first show. Yeah, obviously like there's one thing to do like a fundraiser where you're like, you know what, we should just do this because it's good and the world needs it and it'll be fun, but then like when it becomes an annual thing that you keep putting on, I'm always interested to hear like why or how or like what made you want to go back and do it again the next year and then the next year and then for 23 years after that in a row. Well, I'll answer that, but I want to hear Joe's answer to that, too. Um, you know, for one thing, it was a lot of fun. It really was fun.

And we, you know, that first year, we had to twist bands arms to play. And really the first couple years, you know, it was harder to actually recruit the bands. And you had 12 bands play. Yeah. On one stage. On one stage.

That's one night. 20 minute sets. 20 minute. Oh, so very short. load in and like pack in their gear or like how does that work? We uh the backline uh everybody used the same backline so everybody used the same drum kit, everybody used the same amps, so it was just plug and play.

And what would you do during the downtime between between bands? Uh talk about second helpings. Nice. Or just also let the crowd, you know, chill out and go get a drink. And the downtime, we actually ran that show on time. three bands an hour.

Um, so about a 15 minute set and a five minute changeover. Um, that was what people said. You're not going to be able to do that. And we did that very effectively. Now, it hasn't always happened. No, we get delayed sometimes these days.

We do get delays, but um that first year we showed we could do it and you know the cause was great. It was meaningful to them. I think they had fun as well. and uh you know doing something that's really fun and is doing good in the world as you know you want to do it again and and it was in November like what time of year was the original one? It's always been the Friday before Thanksgiving. Okay.

So you started the Friday before Thanksgiving and then after you put pull off the first one it goes well. You raise you know just under five grand. You've done a good thing like you know you feel good, right? where like how long did it take to be like we should do that again? Like that should be an annual thing. Oh, I would say within the month.

Yeah. You know, we we knew right away we should do it again and we started planning again that spring. And was it called Tonic Ball at the time? It was called Tonic Ball. So from the beginning called Tonic Ball. Always called Tonic Ball.

Why? Um well uh my late friend Greg Perry who is a a writer and a sculptor. In fact he designed the sculpture that's down in uh Kennedy King Park. Okay. Yeah. He came up with it and it was because uh tonic had kind of three meanings.

One was that a tonic is kind of something that makes you feel better. A tonic in the case of being a mixer in a bar. And the tonic is also kind of like the home note in a piece of music. So if you say you're playing something in C, C is the tonic. So it's this kind of big, you know, triple antandra of a word and the ball just because it was a, you know, because it was an event. Yeah, we got a lot of questions about um what people should wear to the ball, right?

Uh what should you wear to Tonic Ball? Uh whatever you want. Come as you are. We encourage you to dress in theme if you want to. Um but yeah, dress up, have a good time. Joe, where did you get connected to Tonic Ball and like how did you what was your first memory with the event?

Um I actually didn't get connected until about year 15. Um but my first memory of the event was actually when I first moved to Indianapolis and I met Ken uh at an event at Indiana Humanities. Um and I think that was a year around year five. Um, and you came to the humanities to talk about tonic. I think Ryan Hickeyi was also there to talk about orange um, and some other events. And I think the theme was like how do we how do we stop brain drain in Indiana?

Right. That it feels like that has been a theme for like 20 years. Yeah, for sure. TBD. Have we cracked the code yet? But, uh, we're still working on it.

So, I met Ken at that event. Um, and I was just like completely taken by him by the event. I thought, man, Ken Honeywell is who I want to be when I grow up. Oh, thank you, Joe. Well, you've always been such an inspiration to not only me, but countless others. So, thank you.

Very kind of. Um, but yeah, I kind of put a pin in that. I didn't know exactly uh how to get involved uh then and there. Um, and it was something that I always wanted to kind of come back to. Um, but yeah, I didn't get brought in until about year 15 when we did our greatest hits year. Um, and I was brought in for um, kind of more like the audience experience uh, side of the show.

So, you know, we have folks that stand in line outside of venues um, and wait their turn uh, to get in to see their favorite band. Um, and we want to entertain them while they're out there. Um, it's a cold November night sometimes. Um, and so we thought we would bring in some like video elements. We sit on a mountain of video footage um, from Tonic and so we thought we would bring in some past coverage and and things like that. um put it on a big video board.

At the time I was working with uh Indie Filmfest, so I had access to projectors and screens and things like that. And it just turns out that that particular year it rained and so we couldn't have video equipment out in the middle of Prospect Street. So, but isn't that how it always goes? You have this great idea and then the weather has other plans. I mean, that's what happens when you put a show on in late November and at night and you never know exactly what to expect. Um but we've made it work for 25 years.

Yeah. So, here's my question. How does it go from 12 bands playing 15 to 20 minute sets in one bar to like more and more venues? Like, how many years did you do the one venue kind of structure? We did the one venue for four years. Mhm.

And let's say if there were 100 people, 120, 30, 50 people that came year one, how did attendance grow on that? And how when did you start selling out like immediately? Well, I would say the um by year two we covered Elvis Costello and the bar was full. Um and I don't know what the capacity of radio is. 150 175 I think. Is it?

Yeah. Um Yeah. And it was uh and and a lot of people came and went. I don't know how many tickets we sold, but the bar was full and it was nice. Um by year three, we covered Neil Young. There was a line out the door like all night long waiting to get in.

These were people who had tickets. Uh we were oversold. Now that's interesting because one, it's a charity event obviously. So people I feel like are slightly more lenient, but it's also an experience where you're in your early years. It's year three of this thing. You don't want [clears throat] to have you don't I don't know.

Is overselling a a venue good? No, it's not good. Right. Like Okay. Yeah. By year three, we were oversold.

By year four, we the line was out the door or and not just out the door, but around the block. Um, you also have to remember like at the time, Fountain Square wasn't what it is today, right? So, radio radio was really the only venue down in that neighborhood. Yeah. No one was going to Fountain Square. You might go there to go duck pin bowling at one of the bowling alleys in the Fountain Square Theater.

Or you might be going to a show but at Radio Radio radio, but you weren't just going to Fountain Square for something to do, right? Really? Like what was the makeup of the neighborhood around there? Uh it was a workingass neighborhood um that had been cut off from downtown by the interstate when the interstate came through. Um all the retail infrastructure was antique malls and um people who were kind of running small businesses on a sho shoring. There were a couple of restaurants down there uh that were good artist studios and Murphy Arts Center.

Yeah. What was the Murphy like that? That's the huge building now that today is the Hi-Fi, right? What was that at the time? It was uh there was a big art supply store there. Uh but otherwise it was studios and even there were people living in there.

Um yeah, it was um it was all kind of a low rent um seat of your pants kind of uh community. Why did you choose Radio Radio as the first venue for Tonic Ball? Well, um we got it free. All right. Yep. that that decides it.

And it was I mean it was a cool it was it's such a cool room. It's such a great venue. Uh that Did you have ties to Fountain Square? No, not at all. No, I didn't know. I mean, it was and my office was down there for years after that and I worked with the community development corporation down there a lot.

So, I mean, I was like actively helping Fountain Square try to develop something. But I mean I I was the same as what people asked me when I told them I was in Fountain Square. The questions were either where is that or is that safe? You got connected to radio through Todd Robinson right at right at Luna Music. Mhm. And then how did how did Tuy decide on that as a club location and how long had it been um open?

I don't know. I don't know how long radio had been open and again I mean I think it was just one of those things. um there's such great space down there and it was always a place that was going to be, you know, there's such great opportunity down here. It's going to be the next big thing. He was always one of those guys who would invest in those kinds of Yeah, he was for sure. No, I was looking at the uh the radio radio like trying to go look at the history of the venue, but their website has expired.

So, if there's whoever is the owner of the radio radio website might need to it's like owner login right now. So, well, they're not really hosting many shows at all these days. Uh, they also own uh Revolion Across the Street. Yeah. Um, and that's really what they focused on. So, they're not doing many shows at Radio.

So, another good reason to come to Tonic Ball is to get to go to radio radio. If you were to walk up to radio right now, it would have last year's poster outside the front door. Yeah. So, last year's Tonic Ball poster. Okay. So, they're just chilling with it right now.

Yeah. It's a great space though. It's a wonderful room. It has great sound. Yeah. So you And we'll we'll do some research and I'll put out like a history of radio.

I feel like that would be interesting to find out because it is like an iconic space. Like I feel like a lot of people talk about um the Vogue Theater right here. radio and the Melody in over at 30 like 38th and uh is way um like those are kind of three of the old non-down just like venues that I feel like people have a lot of memories in for sure. Um so you do four years at just radio radio you have a line around the corner and uh you've clearly caught on. Yeah. Uh wait I want to know themes.

So year one was year one was Graham Parsons. Year two was Elvis Costello. Year three was Neil Young. Year four was the Rolling Stones. Oh, that's pretty fire. Um, yeah, that was really fun.

And like, do you work with So, let's say did you have 12 bands at all four of those shows? Uh, 12 to 14, 15. Do you work with them to like split up the songs of who? Because not everyone can play Painted Black, you know, like not everyone can play like the the biggest hits. Somebody's got to like go deep in the collection to find, you know, a lesserk known song, right? Yes.

We um always assigned uh songs to the bands or we ask them for some preferences and then we would say, "Okay, guys, play this and this." And it these days um we're more focused on playing just songs of the artists we're covering. In the early days, the rules were play a song by that artist and then play whatever you want. So sometimes bands played their old songs, sometimes they played another cover song, sometimes they played two songs by that artist anyways. So that's about what you have time for, two or three songs at the most. Okay.

So you do that for four years and you quickly realize, hey, one, Tonic Balls caught on and two, we need to expand, right? So what after you finished the fourth show that was Rolling Stones themed at radio radio only? Yep. you have another year to prepare for it. How did you get more of the Fountain Square community involved? The big question was, do we have to find a bigger room or can we possibly add a stage?

And we were kind of split. The people who'd worked on the committee were kind of split on that question on, hey, radio radio has been fun. It's been nice, but we're bigger than this now. So, we're going to move keep everyone together and go somewhere different, right? or do we add another space so we have two of them going? Um, yeah.

Right. And I I think there was a lot of energy around finding a bigger space. I, for one, didn't want to leave Radio cuz it's just such a great room. Um, so we ultimately decided we would try to run two stages and we approached the Fountain Square Theater, which was we knew all the folks who owned and worked at the Fountain Square Theater, which is almost right next door to Radio. So, um, that was an easy entry into having another room for Tonic Ball. Wasn't easy or wasn't easy?

It was easy. It was. So, they were like, oh, they were about it. Yeah, they were. Yes, they were interested in having us do the show there as well. Yeah.

Amazing. That's good. Yeah, because I think now today it's four different venues. Five. Five different venues. What are the five venues today in 2026?

Radio radio. Yep. Fountain Square Theater, White Rabbit Cabaret. Mhm. Hi-fi and Square Cat Vinyl. So cool.

I love that. But it started by radio and then you get Fountain Square Theater. Right. And then as the neighborhood kind of grows up, right, um more venues open up and so we just kind of added um rooms and spaces as businesses open. Yeah. Have you ever had to like has have those been the only five venues or did you ever like branch out and then go a different direction?

We were in Pioneer um which is now Monty uh the Italian restaurant down in Fountain Square. Pioneer was open for maybe three years and had a stage. Yeah. and had a wonderful stage. Um, and so we were in that space and then they closed unfortunately during the pandemic. Um, and so we had to um, move into other venues.

Um, and I think second or excuse me, uh, SquareCat Vinyl had opened in that time. Um, and they have a stage as well. It's not a huge stage. Um, but we we we we make it work for sure. And it was not difficult to get the neighborhood involved because it's a big event. I mean, it it was a really big event in Fountain.

still a really big event in Fountain Square. It's still something the merchants are happy to have down there. Yeah. And what were you doing full like what was your career? What is your career? Like you this is a side quest.

This isn't like what your main thing is. You're just doing this out of just love for the community and because you wanted to build something cool. Yeah. I was a copywriter and creative director and owned an ad agency for a bunch of years and was based down there in Fountain Square. Yeah. And because Tonic Ball success, you did you put your office down there in Fountain Square?

No. Well, I I would say we got more uh we got more deeply involved in Fountain Square because of Tonic Ball. Because of Tonic Ball, we were contacted, my wife and I, who were uh had started this little agency. We were contacted by the Community Development Corporation down there in Fountain Square. And we so we started working for them to, you know, kind of help attract business and um and people to the neighborhood. Um and that really is what led us to just kind of believing in what was going on down there.

It just kind of became part of what we were involved with really not just in Fountain Square but in other parts of the city as well. Yeah, that's super cool. And that your guys' uh you started as co- producing Tonic Ball and then you end up going into business together and getting married. We did. I mean, talk about just a home run. Sometimes a good idea just takes over and changes your life.

It worked out great. [laughter] We like to say that Tonic Ball has sparked at least one marriage. It I know it sparked more than one. You know there there are many couples who met at Tonic Ball. Yeah, I've heard many of those stories. That's so awesome.

Okay, so once you got a second venue, how many people was Tonic Ball opened up to at that point? Uh well, if Radio's capacity is somewhere around a couple hundred, uh the Fountain Square Theat's capacity is about 1,200, I think. Yeah, 1,200 entire uh venue. I think 800 on the floor. Were you worried going from, hey, we we do really well when it's a 200 person venue, but to 6x that and also have to fill out your original venue, like that's a big leap. And sometimes with early events, you like it's like so cyclical.

It's like it's really cool for a year or really cool for the month of November. you're really excited leading into Thanksgiving and then you have Christmas and New Year's and the holiday and everything there and you're like still trying to keep the energy around this until next November. Like that seems like a really big jump going from let's say 200 to 1400. Yeah. Uh I don't first of all I don't think we were really worried about how many more people were going to come to the show. Um it was a big room and it was going to be able to accommodate as many as we could.

It was also it was Fountain Square, you know, it was just not still not a place. It was just beginning to grow on people's radar. I mean, there still weren't uh it really there were no market rate apartments in Fountain Square. So, there were no places for young people who were coming to Indianapolis to live. So, it still wasn't drawing uh residential uh traffic at all. So you were getting people to come from wherever else around the city or they were Yeah.

down to Fountain Square for an evening which I think is really again you set out to build something cool that is also a fundraiser you know raising money for Sing Hellbangs but you're getting people exposed to a part of their city and a part of their community that they might have either negative perception or no perception or never ventured to. Like I think that that's uh an interesting way to do economic development. Absolutely. Like I I don't know if you thought about it that way in the in the early days, but like today you think about oh man like uh you go to the show at the Melody Inn and you know you're getting down I think 38th Street has its own perception and then you go there and you're like wow they just put in this awesome park here. There's a new hardware store. There's all this stuff here.

Like it's it's not what uh if you never go down there it's not what your perception is. Yeah I think that's right. I think it's pretty undeniable that tonic ball at least played some role in uh in the development of Fountain Square in the last 20 years. It's that time of year in Indiana when you don't know if you should leave your house wearing a sweater, a bathing suit, or a poncho. Unpredictable [music] weather can bring unwanted surprise home issues like flooded basement, broken furnaces, leaking pipes, and even more. Good thing [music] our friends at Hope Plumbing, Heating, and Cooling are at your service.

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Well, I don't think that was hard. I mean, I think doing good was always what our intention was. Um, I mean, it got to a point in kind of in those middle years where it was just so easy that it seemed like, uh, uh, myself and, you know, three other people ran the whole thing. You know, put everything together, recruited the bands, and it was just a couple of rooms, and it just didn't seem like a really big thing. But we also weren't raising a lot of money. you know, I think it's with in the last, you know, certainly within the last 12 years or so that we really started raising significant funds.

And the uh committee at the time was also just a really tight-knit group of friends, you know, so you were like-minded. You were working on a similar goal. Y um and so I don't think that there was really um a drive to make it huge or there was not like um you know an outside force coming in and saying we want to take control of this. I think that's so cool. it it's like, hey, I I have a couple of my my friends. We like listening to music.

We like kind of like interesting ideas. Like, we'd probably be doing this anyway if we were just by ourselves in the Friday night before Thanksgiving. Why don't we like make this a thing? And it you can't fake authenticity, like really cool like what started out as a niche event. It's like, hey, you know, how many different fans of uh Graham Parson Parson, I'm gonna get this by the end of the show. How many different [clears throat] Graham Parsons fans can we get together on a Friday night?

Yeah, we fill out 150 people all come and we had a great time. And then the next year you roll it back and the next year and it grows. And and I think that there are those organic things that as soon as it feels too commercialized, people are out. Like that's why for us it's like uh for the podcast for instance, you don't it's like let someone you know pay five grand to come on the show cuz then it feels gross. You know, it's not like you're talking to anyone that has a great story. You're talking to whoever has the biggest wallet or like for things like this if you do commercialize it, people can tell and it's like ah this isn't this isn't necessarily this is just a money grab.

Yeah. And I think we've been really intentional about that. Like we've never opened the tribute process up to the public. We've never had it as like popular vote um or pay to you know vote um or anything like that, right? So, we've been really intentional about holding that uh you know artistic creative um license for how we how we build it. Wait, how what is the process of picking uh of picking who who were the rooms are going to be themed around?

Well, I'll let Joe talk to currently. It used to be a bare knuckle brawl. No way. Oh my gosh. It was knockdown dragout. Yes.

And it was it was fun. It wasn't always productive. Um, but we long, oh my gosh, we would fill a blackboard with, you know, 60 names and whittle it down and whittle it down and whittle it down and argue and fight and Yeah. Well, it's kind of a big deal. Not even kind of, especially when you only had one venue, right? Like if you pick something that just you like and not enough like, you know, you need it needs to have popular demand.

You need to have songs that are going to be the right mood. you know, like if you had sad, slow, depressing. It's like you're also trying to raise money and make sure people have a good time. I think that's a really interesting mix to feel out. Um, and obviously everyone has their opinions on who their favorite is, right? So, how do we do it now, Joe?

Um, well, you you spoke to it a little bit, right? The the tributes have to have a level of energy. It has to be a party, right? So, um, as much as I think Ken and I probably like, uh, acts like Tom Weights or Leonard Cohen or Elliot Smith or things like that, those aren't necessarily a party. So, we want them to be popular enough with enough energy. Um, we want them to be, uh, you know, coverable.

We want, you know, local artists be able to do them justice. Um, we certainly look at, you know, popularity, but we also want to have balance amongst the rooms. Cuz this is interesting, too, like those early names. Um, yeah. Would you say Neil Diamond was three? Neil Young.

Neil Young. So different. Wow. Bite your tongue. Yeah. Again, I'm gonna Your die hard fans are going to be like, "This guy is a moron."

But it's okay. We're learning team. We're in here to learn. By the time you get to the Rolling Stones, it's like Rolling Stones fans. And then I know that there was a Taylor Swift tribute not too long ago. Like I don't know if it gets much farther than that on the Spectrum things, right?

And so like I'm sure you've gotten feedback or or um yeah just like I don't want to say criticism but feedback around like don't go too mainstream with your acts but also like if you go too niche how you going to get like all sorts of people there celebrating hanging out having fun. Yeah it we've always had to think about those things. I mean and uh to Joe's point we want to have a good mix of um of artists as well. I remember, you know, year five, the first year, we did two uh stages. What were the two stages? Uh talking heads and Prince.

Oh, yeah. I would like that one. It It was a great show. So, you know, uh so for the first time, we have a black artist. For the first time, uh we have at least have a band that has a woman in the band. But even then I can remember you know uh very clearly the next year um the committee saying we have never covered a woman.

Mhm. Um and we covered Madonna on one stage that sixth year and that it was great. It was a great show. Uh and I think that's something that we've tried to uh keep alive as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I think being mindful like in and like just calling it out and like being honest and transparent about that where it's like, hey, we're taking steps, but let's keep pushing into that and it be tributes to all sorts of different artists from all sorts of walks of life. Sure. Yeah. Okay. So, now I I feel like we've been trying to get to this. So, what does the process look like today?

Um, there's a nomination process that everyone on the committee, I think, gets to nominate four or five uh acts that they would like to see. How many people are on the committee? Oh, I don't know, maybe 20 or so. So, you're bringing like 80 to 100 big box acts. We still kind of do have that large uh whiteboard of of names, right? And then we we will um have a voting process and we'll try to whittle it down to about 10 or 12.

Um and then we often just open it up for debate. Um and you know, what's been the most contentious debate? Uh in my experience, it was Jimmyi Hendris for years and years and years. Uh, some of us wanted to cover Hendrickx and a bunch of other people said, "No one wants to hear local guitar players play Jimmyi Hendris." Well, then somebody said, "Oh my gosh, it's tonic ball." Right.

Right. And so, of course, of course, the guitar players want to play Hendricks and Jimmyi Hendricks was also a great songwriter and they're great songs and let's do Hendricks. So, that was one that it took us a while to get to. It took us a long time to get to Jimmyi Hendris. That's interesting. Yeah, because it does seem like there is a level of obviously like you're covering some of the best musicians in the world and you want to do them justice.

Uh, but you also want to give local like I think that's like both sides. Like are you dogging on local artists by saying that they're not like capable of doing these things? Then obviously I don't know they're going to be like totally to the level of the best guitarists of all time. But like it is still just a party where you're playing cover songs and you're you know having a few drinks and hanging out with your friends and you're not I mean I I think really in the spirit of the original show was was do the song the way you want to cover it. You know we're not looking for dead-on covers. We don't you know that's that's less fun than doing it the way your band wants to do it.

Yeah. We absolutely encourage creative license when it comes to how you want to perform, right? Um, and we want to hear something offthe-wall. We want to hear something bizarre. Um, and I think the audience is hungry for that. And I think the audience is also, um, pretty forgiving.

You know, that we don't have actual Hrix on stage, but you know what? We have some really great guitar players. We have some great guitar players and just we have some great musicians and really great bands. For sure. Yeah. Absolutely.

Okay. So, Hendricks was a big debate. Has there been one where it's like, "Hey, we have one spot left and we're down between two people and like who who was who's competing?" I think recent uh history, the the two that probably competed the most were like B-52s and Blondie. And on paper, they're kind of similar, right? Um and so I think that that was kind of a big debate.

I was pushing for Blondie because she was also um sampled in Kendrick Lamar song and I thought that the timing was right. Um, but I think uh B-52s ended up winning out and that's okay. When do you announce the lineup or when do you announce the the themes? We announce the lineup. We announce the show uh typically late August, early September. Historically, we try to do it the Tuesday following um uh Labor Day weekend.

So, who what are the themes this year? We've got five. We actually don't. This year being our 25th anniversary, we are revisiting all 60 tributes from our past. Yeah. Nice.

We we we are bucking tradition a little bit this year by uh revisiting all 60 tributes. So like if you like the Pixies and Britney Spears, you can you can experience that this year. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. What are the most Okay.

Like if if you put every single So Pixies and Britney Spears is a good one. If you put every single of the 60 acts on a spectrum from like mainstream to very niche, what do you think are our bookends on that? Like Taylor Swift probably being like the most mainstream. I don't know if you can get someone that's more mainstream than that. And I love Taylor Swift, let it be known. Right.

I mean, we have Beyonce and then a lot of classic rock acts um as well. I think Pixie maybe a little bit more niche. The Smiths. And then are you are you breaking that up into like how do you how do you decide of those 60 different acts that you're you're giving tribute to? How do you set a stage where it's like this is the classic rock stage or is it like no this is going to be B-52s and then it's going to be the Rolling Stones? Yeah.

Um when we were deciding on this year's theme um I think we looked at it a couple different ways. We thought about what if we did it in chapters or to borrow from Taylor Swift eras, right? So maybe there's a nice there was tonic ball eras and so the first 10 years would be in radio radio as it was the first um you know venue. That's kind of cool. We aren't doing that this year though. However, um when we were dividing up the stages um I think we wanted to look for balance and we wanted it to be energetic throughout the evening.

Um, and we didn't want one room to skew one particular genre or age group or anything like that. So, we wanted um because the goal is not to I'm a classic rock fan. Radio radio is all classic rock. I'm just going to stay in my one venue all night listening to like the goal is to get people to like go out and about. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Um, and some rooms um, you know, skew a little bit more rock. Some rooms maybe skew a little bit more moody. Um, some may skew a little bit more country or um, you know, acoustic act or thing like something like that. Hi-fi has great sound system. So, um, you know, big loud uh, b bands and and tributes may gravitate a little bit more to hi-fi. But, um, another element that we're bringing in this year, um, Fountain Square Theater has the largest capacity by far of all the venues down in um, Fountain Square.

This year we're doing what we're calling our Hall of Fame acts. Um, and the idea there is to draw as many folks into that venue as possible by having some of the most popular performances um, throughout the night there. One thing that I really uh, try to fix year after year, it's one of our biggest um, comments that we get and feedback is the amount of lines or, you know, folks waiting in line to get into a venue. Um, my take is that if you're spending um, money on a ticket, you should be able to see the show. Um, so I really want to combat uh folks standing in line. I know Ken sometimes thinks that that's part of the experience and a little bit of a right of passage for Tonic Fall, but um I want to try to get as many folks into Fountain Square Theater as possible.

So we have um our Hall of Fame acts um which are huge, right? We have Rolling Stones, Prince, Dolly Parton, Beatles, Elton John, and I think there's one more that I'm forgetting. Anyway, and is that Hall of Fame based on the biggest names of like the covers or the biggest local bands that are the best? Um, I think it's the biggest tributes, right? Um, and again, the committee kind of uh voted on that. We determined who may be the biggest draws.

Um, Michael Jackson is the sixth one. Sorry. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, if I go through this. Okay.

Is is this in order uh on the um like is this in order of the years? That's chronological. Yeah. So, we've got Graham Parsons, Elvis Costello, Neil Young, The Rolling Stones, Talking Heads, Prince, The Clash, Madonna, Elvis Presley, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, Michael Jackson, Remm, David Bowie, The Kinks, Stevie Wonder, You Two, Tom Betty, Pixies, Grateful Dead, Nirvana/Foo Fighters, The Velvet Underground/L Reed, Fleetwood, Max/ Stevie Nicks, Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd, Beck, Tina Ina Turner, James Brown, Dolly Parton. Yes, The Cure. Not on the main stage.

Dolly Parton. The Cure. Simon and Garfuncle, Wilov, Johnny Cash, Elton John, Abba, Beyonce, Bob Marley, Pearl Jam, Beasty Boys, Radio Ed, Diana Ross, The Ramones, Taylor Swift, Outcast, Artha Franklin, Jimmyi Hendris, The Police, Rihanna, Jay-Z, Sly, the Family Stone, Jack White/The White Stripes, Spectacular, Lady Gaga, Parliament, Funkadelic, Holland Oats, Britney Spears, the B-52s, Green Day, and Marvin Gay. Wow. I mean, if you just heard that and couldn't find one single artist that you like, you must not have the radio on ever or not like music because that is the full gambit. Like, that is literally all the genres from country to rock and roll to everything.

Like, that's amazing. Yeah, it's a big show. We've never really done it uh this big um or in this way before. Wow. How many How many tickets will you guys sell to Tonic Ball? Um roughly 2,300.

Um Yeah. which is which is huge and you know a number of those go to the artists. Um so we have about 300 musicians that perform um across five stages. Um a number of those are for our sponsors. Uh we have about a hundred volunteers including the committee that help out um and then we sell the rest. Wow.

And yeah, every ticket uh goes to directly to Sen. And so this is what I want to talk about is year one you raised, you know, 4,600 bucks I think is what you said. Um, now here we are 25 years later getting ready for your 25th Tonic Ball. And I believe that number is nearly $3 million that's been raised for Sucken Helpings with a third of that roughly coming in the last four years, right? What's helped you turn the corner to really start to make uh to raise a significant amount of funds to donate to Second Helpings? Well, one thing is that uh Second Helpings uh really got behind the fundraising effort some years ago.

There was a when we first started doing this, Second Helpings's biggest fundraiser was also in the fall and it it uh took a lot of staff time and a lot of their development staff time uh and they didn't have a lot of time to devote to fundraising for Tonic Ball. They actually some years later moved that event to the spring so they could support Tonic Ball. because that's what it's always been is those those uh sponsors are really donors to Second Helpings and so having just also they get to enjoy music for a night, right? But it's like, you know, it's like a pass through like it's going through the tonic ball like they're getting tickets or, you know, signage or whatever that might be, but it's really just a donation to Second Helpings and then as a thank you, come enjoy some music. Yeah. But I also think I mean Joe and um some of the other people before Joe who um I I retired as chairman of the event after 10 years um but they've also really professionalized the event as well and that uh helps quite a bit with the fundraising.

We work really closely with Second Helpings and their staff to make sure that we are developing relationships with those sponsors. There's a lot of uh intention put behind um how we go out and fundra for this. I mean, I think that's really interesting, too, is you did this as the the chairman of the event for 10 years. Now it's year 25. Like, there have been more Tonic Balls without you as chairman than with you as chairman. That's pretty cool.

Like, to build something that's so enduring and that the community was was hungry for, right? No pun intended there. Like, that's that's pretty impressive, I would say. Yeah, it's really humbling. I brought in and anyone who listens to the show a lot, this is like a common thread that I I tend to pull up when I bring in people that do things for the betterment of the community because it's good and because it should exist. We live in a world where it does seem as though everything is self- serving.

How much money am I going to make? What's going to be in it for me? Etc. , etc. , etc. if you had um maybe there's listeners out there that have thought of these philanthropic ideas and sometimes they get caught in the well if it's not going to raise a million dollars this year maybe I just shouldn't do it and it's like your first ball raised 4600 bucks.

What do you say to people out there that have um that maybe don't know how to get involved with the community or have ideas but just haven't executed on it? Like what's kind of your thought around people's civic responsibility to the community of Indianapolis? It's shockingly easy to do something that you want to do if you are willing to be in charge of it. You know, I've I've also tried to do uh a lot of things um with other people and found sometimes that um that I was going to be the one in charge if I really wanted to get it done. Um but yeah, I mean, I think there's so much that's possible. You just have to be willing to take that mantle on yourself.

For sure. And I know this is a common theme on your show, but Indiana is a community that I think encourages um fresh ideas and I think the audience is hungry for new things. Um and I think again they're forgiving uh if you go out and earnestly try um you know and they'll they'll keep coming back if the product's solid. I think that's the thing. Everybody has an idea. There are so many good ideas and that just like someone says an idea again it took a year for the first tonic ball to come to reality after you were talking with a professor uh at Butler and say you know this would be cool like how many times you had a conversation with someone like it would be so cool if we did blank.

I think that Indiana is a place that if you start to really like put some some metal into that and and you start to put some work into whatever the thing you want to bring to life is like people will help out. they won't do the work for you and like you can't just come up with an idea and all of a sudden it like poofs into existence. But if you're putting in work, people will come alongside you and help out. And I'm sure that's been your guys' experience. Well, what's the what's a greater example of that than Second Helpings? Really?

Three chefs got together and decided there was way too much food waste and what could we do about it? And now Second Helpings does what is it 5,000 meals a day, Joe? Something like that. Oh, wait. How does that how does that work? We might have to do an episode just with people from from Second Helpings.

You you really ought to there and it's all with food that was really going to end up in a landfill. I mean they they bring in food that was overordered or overprepared. They uh remake it into casserles and sandwiches and all kinds of things. They send it out to missions and daycarees and senior centers and all kinds of nonprofit organizations all around the community. Um, what could be better than that? Yeah.

When I think I saw the number, uh, the 2025 Tonic Ball funded more than 144,000 meals uh, for our neighbors here in central Indiana. Like I think that sometimes, again, we live in the world where like all of a sudden a million dollars doesn't seem that big at times and you're like, "Wait, hold on. 144,000 meals. Think about like how just one if that went to 144,000 different people or someone you know for a week like that just is a huge impact when you really think about that in terms of like serving food to someone and it's from one night of hanging out and listening to great music and supporting local artists giving them a platform to you know get discovered by more local um like local patrons and I I just think that it's such a a really unique event. It's very cool. And anytime you've done something for 25 years, like you must be doing something right.

Like to endure for 25 years is incredible. Like that's I mean a testament to one being there for the first 10 as like the the leader and the driving force, but building something that is that endures. I just think that's really really special. Yeah, I agree. And and it takes a lot. I mean it it has gotten so much bigger.

Um, it takes much more to do now than it did before, but look at the impact we've had. It's quite amazing. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. What do people need to know as we get ready for this year's Tonic Ball? If you've never attended Tonic Ball before, I kind of liken it to Coachella or another really large music festival, but if you shrink it down and everything's like hyper condensed, right?

So, take the Coachella model. um you have dozens, hundreds of performers uh over a two-eek period, right? We put it all into one night across five venues. There are people boopping around from venue to venue. There are musicians boopping around from venue to venue. You know, they they may perform one time or they may be in three or four other bands.

So, they may be unplugging on one stage and running across the street to plug in on another stage. That's really cool. Yeah. I didn't even think about like m musicians that might be in multiple bands for sure. Wow. We've had actually had to have like concierge service for some certain musicians.

That's so cool. And then some years we've had to put in certain clauses that you know one musician can't perform in six different bands. They can only perform in three. Just can't do it. Can't do it logistically. Right.

Wow. Okay. So I want to I want to know what does the process of becoming a musician for Tonic Ball look like? Anyone is allowed to submit, right? If you are a performer, if you are an artist, if you have a band, you can submit on our website. So, we have a form.

We'll get your comp uh contact information. We want to know what type of music you play. We want to know how many folks are in your uh band. We want to know what uh interests uh in terms of music you want to perform. Yeah. Um and then we want to hear you.

We want to see you perform. So, if you have a Spotify link or a band uh camp link uh or SoundCloud or something like that, if you have an uh Instagram presence or YouTube, whatever, we want to see your performances. How many musicians like uh submit to have the opportunity to play? So, yeah, this year we had about 120 acts submit for 60 spots. For 60 spots. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. And knowing knowing again that all of those are volunteering their evening. So they're taking um a night out of their week and they're donating their time and talent for our show. Um they may not be taking a gig that night, right? So they come and perform tonic.

Yeah. Opportunity cost, right? Like um and then our committee is made up of musicians. Um it's made up of folks that are in um kind of like the industry a little bit. So they know they know their chops. Um, and we really are trying to match the best band with the best tribute, um, or match that best band for this particular venue.

Um, and I think we've been really intentional about reaching new audiences and new talent, um, throughout the city. We want to be a showcase for Indianapolis talent. Well, I think it would be a really hard logistical uh, problem to solve. You have 60 bands now. So you won, you took 120 bands to 60 spots and now you're like, "Oh man, who's going to be the best Michael Jackson tribute? Is it this band or this band?

Who's going to do the best Dolly Parton? Is it this band or or this performer?" Like that would be hard cuz then you're kind of going back to your original list cuz you're like, "Well, hey, we might have two spectacularly talented Michael Jackson cover bands, but we only need one cuz we have 60 spots." Like that's like, have you ever seen Always Sunny in Philadelphia where you have like the board and it's like Pepe, Silia, Pepe, you like have all the strings trying to figure out who's going to be the Dolly Parton? You kind of have to beautiful mind it a little bit, right? Um and you know, sometimes um we don't always get it right, but um I think more often than not, we do the tribute justice, we do the the city justice by showcasing the talent.

I love it. Okay, I have to know individually, what is your favorite memory from Tonic Ball? One thing I I think we're doing again this year is we're um going to the band I'm in is going to cover the uh the medley on the B side of Abbey Road. It's about a 16-minute medley. Um and I can remember finishing that on stage and thinking we have just done something the Beatles never did. The Beatles never played this all together on stage and it is just that was such a fun feeling.

I will always remember that. I thought you weren't a performer. You're in a band. You play uh when they let me. What? Yeah, they go slumbing with me.

When what? Uh okay. Wait, what stage are you going to be on? I that will be in the Fountain Square Theater this year. That will be on the Fountain Square Theater. He's doing the Beatles, but also Kin's performing in a couple other acts, but not not more than three.

No, just three, I think. I think I'm going to do a Graham Parson song, and I think I'm going to do a Talking Heads song. Yes. That's legendary. Three different stages. Yes.

Oh, man. That's awesome. I love that. Now, when you first started and like the idea for Tonic Ball came, were you were had you ever performed on stage before? Oh, yeah. Okay.

but not not for a while. And that isn't what I anything what I was looking to do. As a matter of fact, I probably did it the second year because we needed a band as much as anything. Well, I just didn't know if like maybe the like being around this like sparked your or just like lit the fire for you to get on and perform and like have that, you know, you know, flex that muscle a little bit. Yeah. Not really.

I'm not I'm a kind of a reluctant performer. Um, I'm not I'm uh not uncomfortable on stage like I was the MC of Tonic Ball for the first um some number of years. So I'm I don't have stage fright. I just don't love doing it. So I don't I you know people would say and I've always had a really good band to play with like really good musicians and people have really liked it and they'll ask me you know if I'm playing out anywhere and and no you know I've just basically played Tonic Ball. Ah I love it.

Okay Joe, what's your favorite Tonic Ball memory? Oh my goodness. Um one of the first years that I was on the committee I was uh stage managing um at Radio. helping to get the bands on and off in a timely manner and I failed miserably actually. We were like 40 minutes behind schedule. So, sorry about that, Ken.

Yeah, that's all right. Um, but just being able to look around the room and see all of the folks packed into radio and the enthusiasm for the next act coming up. Um, that's a favorite memory of mine. Um, I actually will say that a f favorite memory of mine uh happened this past summer and it actually had nothing to do with Tonic itself. Um, two years ago at Tonic, we paid tribute to Jack White and the White Stripes. And a local band, Pat and the Pissers, um, performed on that stage.

This past summer, Jack White came to um, Everwe amphitheater and performed, and he selected Pat and the Pissers to be their opening act. So, it was kind of a full circle moment for Tonic. You know, two years ago, they were performing a cover of his and then two summers later, they're opening for him. No way. That's such a cool thing. Yeah.

And we are not taking credit for that at all. Right. They earned that on their own. Um and they're a fantastic band. But it is one of those kind of magical tonic moments that has come back full circle for us. Yeah.

Do they get to play originals? Yeah. Opening for No way. Yeah. They are an incredible incredible band. That's so cool.

Very very cool. I love it. The other cool thing about that is um they are on Romantis Records, a local record company. Um, and they actually gifted Jack a copy of their album and wedged in between that album, the vinyl, is a recording of their Tonic Ball um performance. So, it's a recording of them playing the, you know, his songs, playing White Stripes at Tonic Ball. It was really cool.

Dang. Yeah. Go check it out on Instagram, Romantis Records. They have a photo with Jack. Yeah. I think it's actually on Jack's Instagram as well.

That's sick. It was really cool, dude. Very, very cool. I love that. I'm I'm fired up. All right, I'm gonna have to go because there's still uh so tickets have sold out for a long time, like every year for a long time.

So, there might still be a few when this episode drops, there might still be a few tickets left. Go check it out. Where can they buy tickets at? tonicball. org. And if you're if you are not or if they're not currently available, get on the wait list.

You never know what'll happen. that way uh if there are spots available um you can get in there and go check out Tonic Ball. [gasps] Gentlemen, this has been so fun. I've loved learning more about it and talking I've learned a lot about music just in general. I'm uh increasing my breadth of knowledge when it comes to all things musical interest. Um we've come to the final part of the show where we talk all things Indiana.

So, this first question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homejart. com. My question for you guys, why do you call Indiana home? I actually am not originally from here.

I grew up outside of New York and went to high school in the Chicago area and came to Butler to go to college and I've lived in Indiana ever since. And there was probably a time where if you called me a hooser, I'd want to punch you or something. But um no, I think the we talked about it a little bit, but I think the great thing about living in Indiana is that if you have a passion for doing something, it's really uh really probably easier to do it here uh and have a greater impact here than you could in somewhere in New York or Chicago. It's easier to get to people who are the decision makers. it's easy or to get to funders. Not that any of that is easy, but if you really want to have an impact in your community and that's important to you, this is a great place to do it.

I will echo that and I will also say that I think the Midwest in Indiana is incredibly creative. Um, and I think we have to be incredibly creative. Um, and we off we often will ship our creativity to the coasts. Um and so I think I want to be invested in the local community and to really build something um that you know our citizens are deserving of. Yeah. I think that is like a common misconception um is that there's no creative people, there's no creatives or artists or things like that in the Midwest or in Indiana.

And I think that it's our job to make it so that if someone is creative that they don't to achieve their dream or whatever it is, they don't have to leave. you know, like if you want to start whatever it is or you have you're a musician or an artist or a sculptor or whatever it might be that you can still have the same level of success and career built from here in Indiana as you could uh in Los Angeles or wherever it is. For sure. Yeah. So, I love that. I think those are great answers, gentlemen.

We have three final questions for you. The first one, this is your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. It could be a trail, a park, could be a random back road highway in southern Indiana. Or it could be your favorite restaurant that you know is kind of like a hidden gem. Like it literally is a hidden gem. Cuz the question is, what is a hidden gem in Indiana?

Uh the Contemporary Art Museum of Indianapolis, uh Cammy, it's a brand new museum. It opened this spring down in the Garfield Park area. Um, it was created by uh the folks at BigCar who have been uh just a great arts and community building organization in Indianapolis for many years, 20 plus years. Um, and it is a great contemporary art museum on a campus uh like two blocks away from Garfield Park. Um, it's great. Nice.

Wow. Okay, I'm g to go check that out. Okay, Joe, I have two. I hope that's okay. It is acceptable. First one, Greater Indie Trailways.

Um, I'm a cyclist. Uh, and as much as I enjoy open roads and country roads, uh, sometimes it's just best to ride on a trail. Um, and so, Greater Indie Trailways is all of central Indiana's trails under one uh, brand. So you have the Monon, you have the BNO, you have the um big four up in Zansville, right? Um and it's ever expanding. So I think they're at 800 miles now.

Uh and it's, you know, continuing to grow and it really brings connectivity throughout the community. Um and I am amazed at how um much access you have throughout Indianapolis and the greater region um just through those trails and that network. Um, and I I I think that a mark of a really great community is how we invest in pedestrian safety and infrastructure. And uh I want more people to go out and cycle. Yeah, absolutely. I'm like looking at this.

This is this is crazy cool. Okay, so they have a full map of all the trails here in central Indiana. You know a heck of a loop to do if you were on a bike or if you were a a really incredible runner if you start at the corner. Oh man, I think that's 42nd and the Monan is where the nickel plate starts. Yeah. And if you took the nickel plate all the way up to Noblesville and then you took the Midland Trace all the way to Westfield and then you took the Monan all the way back down.

That would be a heck of a loop. It's I've done that loop actually before. How many miles is that? Oh gosh, I want to say it's probably like a 30 mile loop. I was going to say it looks I bet it's a marathon at least to do that if you were to run that or a nice one if you're on the north side could just be that same one but you take the 106 back across and you just make that little rectangle. Yeah.

And the amazing thing is you know the amount of um you know merchants and breweries and other things that are right off of the trail, right? Um and this will resonate with you Nate. I uh am part of a group that we cycle every year to the 500. Um, so for the last few years we've been doing that and it's honestly the best way to get to the track. Everyone who bikes over there says that that is like the cheat code. Like you lock wherever you can, you put your bike up there, you lock it on and uh then you get out of there so much quicker for sure.

While I'm just like sitting there waiting for traffic to finally leave and you guys are already home taking a nap and having having a drink on the couch. Yeah. Right. Okay. Two questions left for you guys. This one is your opportunity to help us uncover future guests for the show or just people that aren't getting as much love that might be making a huge impact in the state of Indiana.

Who's a Hooser we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things. I'm going to mention a guy you know and that is a guy named Alex Maddingley. Uh Alex is a writer. Uh he and he also is the editor of a crime magazine called Cold Collar magazine. Um it's a Substack magazine.

Um he's a really good editor, but he's also a really good kind of crime and mystery writer. One of his stories uh was a story called Grenle made it into the 2025 best American mystery and suspense stories anthology. Um he's just a really good writer. Um and uh yeah, he's going to be you you will hear from him in years to come as a as a kind of a crime and mystery writer and editor. He's a great editor as well. Wow.

Now, I will say when I thought of cold caller, I was not assuming that would be crime or murder or mystery. I was assuming it would be like sales techniques on how to close your next big deal. Um that's a good one. Okay, we're gonna have to keep What was his name again? His name's Alex Maddingley. He also writes under the name Craig Francis Coats CFC.

I Yeah, I'm not sure why he chose that name, but uh that is uh also his pen name. I didn't know that pen names still existed. That's pretty cool. I've always wanted to meet someone with a pen name. Yeah, Alex. That's the only one the only one I ever knew.

I watched National Treasure when I was a kid and they talk about Ben Franklin being silenced dogood. That's what I'm talking about. National Treasure. Great film if you want to learn about American history. But Alex Mattingley, um, Cold Caller magazine. I just looked that up.

Amazing. Uh, Joe, what do you got? Fred Miller. Uh, you may know him as MF Fred or My Friend Fred. Uh, he's a local musician, local artist. Um, he actually performs at Tonic.

Um, and has for the last few years. Um, but Fred is more than just that. He is a community activist. Um he uses his social media platforms for good. Um and has a really unique and interesting approach to how he shares information and um he's the whiteboard. Yes.

Yeah. Fred is amazing. He's so generous and kind and thoughtful and communitydriven um and has a really wonderful way of um you know sharing information to the masses. Yes. Okay. You people have definitely seen MF Fred, which stands for my friend.

Um he like will explain stuff. He writes out these very elegant like I mean his handwriting. Whoever writes on that has an artist. Yeah. So it's him incredible handwriting and he'll like explain what's on your ballot is one of the most recent ones. Or um spooky bike tours or even like Beach Grove data centers.

is like he just like explains these very complicated things uh but makes it pretty easy to understand which is cool. Yeah, Fred is amazing. Wow. And I actually heard him play. It's all coming together now. Okay, so I was down at the garage getting ice cream and he was on stage playing and he had Bob's burgers in the background of like while he he was just up there him and his guitar just playing some good music and hanging out.

And I was like, "You look so familiar." I'm pretty sure that was him. I like you look so familiar and now I'm putting it all together. Yeah, Fred is Fred's awesome. He's a musician. He's a DJ.

He will perform at Turner's Bar. Um he'll have like Friday night um live karaoke that he'll run. Um heck yeah. I love that. Um we have one final question for you and as we think about, you know, obviously you've been in Indiana since your time at Butler. you have built and grown and and built careers and helped make a huge impact on our community.

And I think that now you you talked about um if someone were to call you a hooer early on, you might have wanted to punch them. But I think today your sentiment might be different to that and that it means something to be a Hooser. And I want to know for you guys, what does it mean to be a Hooser? Just being comfortable in your old skin, in your own skin. You know, I just read John Green's latest book, um, Hollywood Ending, and, um, several times in the book, someone from one of the coasts, one of the characters says he's from Indiana, and someone from one of the coasts, you know, says, "Oh, I'm sorry about that." Or, "That's okay.

You'll probably do fine anyway." And I think you have to if you're here just kind of be comfortable in your own skin and um know that um life here is is pretty good that you're here for a reason. Um and u maybe uh living well is the best revenge. That's a good oneliner. Joe, I don't know that I can top that. But I will say I think uh to Ken's point um being a hooer means I think probably feeling overlooked.

um being an underdog uh and knowing that you can actually uh you know if you put some good out into the world, you're going to get it back. Absolutely. I think that karma is so real in the Hooser State like people that genuinely go out there and just do good things for the sake of doing good things with no expectations in return. Every time I've chosen to be generous or every time I know someone who's like they've just been generous with their time or with their money or with with whatever that they have, it ends up like the the the who's your universe reciprocates in ways um that you didn't always expect. And I just think that uh people really feel that and people in the state of Indiana will go out of their way to help others truthfully with no what's in it for me just because it's the right thing to do. Right.

I love it. Hey, this has been so incredible. One last time, dates, tickets. How can people get plugged in with Tonic Ball? Tonic Ball 25, Friday, November 20th, the Friday before Thanksgiving. Tickets are available at tonicball.

org. And all proceeds go to Second Helpings, feeding feeding our uh neighbors and community. Heck yeah. Gentlemen, that has been our deep dive into Tonic Ball and year 25 coming up. We'll talk to you soon. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater.

Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at [music] Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you so much [music] for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get