Imposter syndrome is real. Yeah, I've been called to this and like God does not call the qualified, he equips them. You leave your corporate job to go work for a company that both gave you everything and took away everything. Like that is an internal conundrum. Telling our story, our mission, our why and that people know that this is purpose behind what we're doing. If your dad could see you in green thumb today, what do you think he would say?
From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hooser State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. My guest today is Kirsten Norwood, and she is the owner of Green Thumb Landscape, a second generation residential and commercial landscaping company that serves central Indiana. After successful leadership roles in human resources at Kroger and Eli Liy, she stepped away from corporate America to preserve and grow the business her father founded in 1992. Today, Kirsten leads a woman-owned, minorityowned, veteran founded, and disability inclusive company that believes landscaping is about far more than just mowing grass. Through workforce development, community partnerships, and purpose-driven leadership, she's honoring her parents' legacy while building opportunities for the next generation of Hooers.
I'm so excited to dive into your journey, the journey of Green Thumb and everything you guys have been doing. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Yes. Okay. I uh first off, we have to start with uh you and Robert and the crew here had a connection with Ball State alum.
Yes. Chirp chirp. Wow. I'm really interested to dive into how a journalism major ended up owning a landscaping company. Uh where did you grow up? So, I am born and raised in Indiana, Indianapolis.
Um, went to Heritage Christian for 13 years and just always loved to talk. I am like my dad used to call me a motormouth. So, always just love to talk, tell stories, and wanted to really lean into journalism, studied at Ball State, and then after graduating, it was really hard to find a job. I'm sure that's like still the story to this day for a journalist. Um, and I was working at Kroger part-time. And once I got my degree, what were you Oh, so what were you doing at Kroger?
A cashier. Oh, Robert. This is crazy because Robert was like stocking grocery shelves like at Kroger. He was like the Kroger bag boy slash shelf stalker while he was also doing some stuff for us and then graduated from Ball. The Ball State/Groger connection is strong. Yeah, we pretty much have the same life.
Maybe he can tell the rest of my story and interview today. Um, but yeah, so I was doing that part-time to still have money as a broke college student. And then upon graduation, it was hard for me to find a job. And Kroger was like, "Hey, you're good at pe hearing people's stories. Why don't you come and work in our recruiting um field?" And I ended up loving it and loving the people.
And yeah, Kroger's based out of Cincinnati, right? So Kroger actually has a central division that is responsible for all the stores in Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan. And so I was stationed at the central division, their main hub here in Indianapolis, like in the Castleton area. Oh, I got you. Okay. So you kind of like would that be working for Kroger corporate sort of?
Yeah, like you're a branch of it. Yeah. Okay, fun. So how long did you do that for? So I worked in all at Kroger for 10 years, but like the last two to three years of my time at Kroger, I was in that corporate side of the business. Okay.
So here's the question. During that journey, like you're working in HR, you're kind of in the recruiting side of things. Were you ever feeling called to go back into journalism? Like that's what you because you had a double major, right? Yeah. You know, it's funny.
I feel like when you have like a gift and talent, you understand like that it's transferable, right? So, I was still using those skills, but it wasn't in the way that maybe I envision it of like being a talk show host like yourself or writing for a magazine, but it was like I was still using those skills every single day. So, I was fulfilled, but I know that that part of my life maybe will come on later um in my life. So, Wow. Okay. So, you talk about growing up going to Heritage Christian?
Uh when did you when were you there? So, I was at Heritage Christian for 13 years. So, I was there from kindergarten through 12th grade. So, I graduated in 2012. Was uh was Matt Hunt there when you were you Matt and Andy? Yes.
And then Andrew Bashet is a little bit younger, but he the I went to Depal and played football with Matt and Andy. Oh, so they actually played football. I was on the team with them, but like they did most of the passing and catching. Yes, they were year Matt Hunt was a year like under me. And like Connor Daly, all of them went to high school with them. Yes.
Wow. This a who's who right there. A Heritage Christian. Okay. And so what made you I do want to dive into this part of the story a little bit more. What made you choose Ball State?
How did you know that was the right fit for you? Just that journalism passion. um out of all of the schools in Indiana. So I was fortunate to get the Lily Endowment and if the listeners or you're not familiar Lily Yes. familiar. Okay.
So the Lily Endowment 30 seconds is a a full ride scholarship for four years in any um school or university in Indiana. And so for me it was like okay I'm going to maximize this time and figure out the best school that wants that will help me achieve my goal of being a journalist. And Ball State did that for me. I mean, I would have been like throwing up the the application to like Notre Dame or like most still great school journalism. You love it, but it's like whatever. Where where's the price tags at?
Like I'm trying to get, you know, but I was like, okay, I'm going to meet David Letterman. Like he's going to fall in love with me. Give me a show. You know, it's a direct path, right? And that's Yes, it's a direct. But what you learn, right, is sometimes life doesn't always turn out exactly how you expect it.
And right before you were set to enroll and start school in Muny, uh, tragic circumstances happened. Can you talk to me about how that summer before your freshman year of college, life kind of kind of changed for you and and really impacted your path? Yeah, so two weeks before I was scheduled to move into my freshman dorm, my dad was killed in a tragic work accident. Um, and it was so hard for our family. like our dad my dad was our anchor. He was our everything.
Right. How big is your family? Um it's just it was just my mom, my dad, and then my little sister and me. So we're a fourerson household and our rock, our anchor was killed doing what he loves to do cuz he started this company in 1992. Correct. Yes.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Um wow. Like Okay. So I uh I will say I lost my mom in 2017 and everyone's story of just losing a parent at a young age is just it's different and it's hard and there's you know different stages there.
If you're okay with sharing I'd love to talk about I don't know that's like such a formative time of your life. You're about to be a freshman in college. How did that impact you and change your trajectory? And it's kind of a full circle moment that you end up going back and taking over the business that your dad started, but also that also was like, you know, talk about losing your life doing something that you love. Like that is like there's a lot to unpack there. It's a lot.
Um it is a lot. So I'll first anchor on you know my dad and I toured Ball State together. So when I found to your question earlier like we both saw that moment of me being there right on that tour it's like you're trying to envision yourself on campus and we both had that moment together. We also did freshman orientation together and so for me it was a no-brainer of like do I continue going to Ball State? Like yes I'm grieving yes I'm sad and I will never forget my doctor said hey there is no timeline on grief. So you can sit here and say hey in 3 months 6 months I'll be better and then I'll go.
There's no timeline. Your dad would want you to continue going to school. He was there with you with all these milestones for you up until this journey. Go and carry out his dream. You went on day one. Yes.
What? I still left. Yes. No, it was hard. It was very, very hard. But in retrospect, I think it was the right decision because if I would have stayed home, every little thing would have reminded me of him.
And I don't think that I would have been able to like move on with my life. Not saying moving on is the right solution, but I would have been stuck in a in a sense. So, yeah. Wow. I mean, two weeks later, can can you take us through um just like the events that led up through there? Like uh you say a tragic workplace accident?
Yeah. Yeah. So, my dad was removing a tree and unfortunately he was crushed by a skid steer while removing that tree. And so, yeah, it was it was really really hard for our family. I mean I I can only imagine I mean he had been working at this point 20 years in that business. Yes.
Had built it from literally I mean take us through the founding story you remember like growing up with your dad starting this company and growing it like how did he get things going and and what was the size and scope of it as uh you remember growing up? Yeah. So my dad was in the army. He served in Desert Storm. And so when he came back home, he wanted something that he could work outside, use his hands, and make an impact in his community. And so landscaping became that for him.
He started off working for Kimlon, which is now True Green. Um, and he really understood the fundamentals, the science behind turf. And then he uh branched off and made Green Thumb out of a onecar garage at my grandma's house in Martondelle, Brightwood, which is the poorest zip code in Indianapolis. like the median household income is $30,000 in that. And so he was able to found Green Thumb, expand it now to a multi-million dollar organization when he passed and it's now something that my husband and I get to run daytoday. And so yeah, like very very humble beginnings is what I always tell people.
and knowing those from a onecar garage in Martale Brightwood. Onecar garage and I tell people I did not go to summer camp as a kid. I was in the truck with my dad in that stick shift hot going to job sites or snow days. No, there was no playing in the snow. I was rolling around with my dad pushing snow at various properties. And so having that a part of my formative years or being a young kid growing up with that, it's like it's engraved in you that you want to carry on this legacy.
What did having a parent that was an entrepreneur teach you? That's such a good question. Um, it just there's no words to describe it to be honest. Um, I just remember and I don't even think my husband knows this story, but I remember the very first time that for like our spelling test, entrepreneur was the word and no one in the class knew what entrepreneur was. And I was like, I know it. It's my dad.
And so just they just taught me that like a lot of people don't do it. If everyone could do it. If it was easy, everyone could do it. And so that's one of the first things that I learned is that hey, everyone's not an entrepreneur. Everyone can't be a business owner, run a business, be a sole proprietor. Like it's it's a science to all of it.
And I just feel so lucky to see it up close and early um from my initial years. Yeah. I mean the one part about growing up with a parent who is an entrepreneur. I mean time you just like find the value of time. I feel like where it for some children with parents who are you know very career driven very entrepreneurship driven it's it's a pain right it's like oh you know like when there's a problem when something happens on a job site something happens out there like your dad's the one who gets the call right and it can be offputting for some people like nope I don't want that I want a corporate job I want to work at Eli Liy I want to like clock in at 8:30 or 9:00 I want to clock out at 5 shut the laptop and go to my Pilates class and chill, right? What about it was interesting to you?
Like why why after having a parent that was an entrepreneur did you want to continue in the same family business and be an entrepreneur yourself? Yeah. To me it was just like I know the cost of the legacy and the cost that my dad the blood sweat tears that he put in and even my mom. So when my dad passed away in the work accident, the next day my mom had no experience, no knowledge and was just like I am continuing this legacy because I saw how hard my husband worked. No way. Can we talk about that?
Yeah. Like your mother, what what happened? Like let's say it's a Tuesday, like Wednesday, the phones still ring. Yeah. You have contracts. You have stuff to get done.
You like how many employees did y'all have at that time? I think we had about 10 to 15. Yeah. Like what do you even where do you start? Like and was she in the business before? No.
She ran she worked at Kroger full time. So, um, my dad passed on a Monday at like 2:00 and it was like, okay, not only do I need a plan, I need to comfort these two girls that just lost their father and I have this business with employees that I need to maintain that are like also probably they're also grieving and there's also work. It's like that is that is a ton of just you think it's grass and you think it's like landscaping and mowing, but it's like that's a ton of people. Yeah. um just emotions and feelings and so much there. So your mom takes over and you go off to college.
Yes. And your little sister is still is she she's younger, right? Yeah. So she's still I think at this time she's in middle school and so my sister has Down syndrome. She's 23 now. She's nonverbal and so she's she's you know my mom is caring for a special needs daughter.
I we might need to do we might need to do a deep dive on your mom. Oh my. Your mother, your mother raises two daughters, sends one off to college, is caring for a child that has special needs, loses her husband, takes over the business. Yeah, they should write a book. They should make a movie. They should.
I mean, I could. Tyler Perry, watch out. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Right. Like, oh my gosh.
So, so now was that hard for you? like I like the emotional side of like okay you're still on your path you're on your trajectory like you know you're going to go to college and you're going to go you know Yeah. But then you're also leaving all this behind. Yes. Like how how did you process that internal emotion? You know for me neither one of my parents went to college.
So I'm a first generation college graduate. Thank you. And so that was always in the back of my brain of like hey I have to do this not only for me but for my parents. And then also just knowing how pivotable of a role my dad played of like getting me to Ball State and like us doing that together was like I got to do this. Like this is my motivator for success. Um and by any means necessary, I have to do this.
Okay. I love that. And do you remember checking in with your mom and hearing about how things were going? Like how did she learn about business? And cuz I mean this would have been what in what 2012? Yeah.
2012. And you don't step back into the business until 2024. So, did she run it for 12 years? Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
So, she So, my mom passed away in 2022 and so we ran it so she ran it for 10 years and we ran it part-time um until 2024 and then we ran it full-time. Okay. Um yeah, I mean it was one of those things that I was a college girl that was rebellious, rightfully so. college. And did you carry resentment towards the business a little bit? Cuz they took my dad away and he was so like overly committed to it.
But I remember my godfather um just told me like, "But remember that Green Thumb gave you the life that you enjoy to this day." And so that gave me a lot more respect and a little bit of healing on it because you're like so anchored on, okay, my dad is always mowing grass, talking to people. I'm not going to summer camp. I'm not going having a snow day. Like I'm out working. But also the benefit of that cost, right, is that I get to go to private school for 13 years.
I get to go on vacations. I get new vehicles whenever I want, you know, and that that's the, you know, that's the benefit of some of those sacrifices that I had to that's like something I feel like that you don't realize until you're much older. Yes. Like wisdom wisdom. What do they say? Youth is wasted on the young, you know, like Yes.
Okay. So time advances, you're building a corporate career. Um and then yeah, your your mom passes away in 2022. Yeah. Unexpectedly. Unexpectedly.
Um unexpectedly. And you know, I'm so Hey, I just want to say like that is I I can't imagine like that is so I'm sure challenging and and then you're there with this you have this business at that point. What was it like in 2022 like size-wise? So sizewise I would say a little bit under a million. So the great thing about my dad is that he was very cutting edge. So some of the equipment that he cutting edge I didn't do that on purpose.
So some of the things that he thought about like even our location. So we're in P we're on Pendleton Pike. We are literally 2 minutes from the highway. Like people aren't thinking about that stuff. And so my mom just really kept things the same. Don't change anything.
And so I think that kind of impacted why we didn't see as much growth as maybe we would have if my dad was still here. Um so yeah, like that was kind of where the organization was. Like how many employees is that? Um we probably had about 10 at that time. Okay. So you still unexpectedly your mom passes away who had been running the business, you know, keeping keeping the status quo, right?
It's like, hey, you know, keep the lights on, keep these employees out on jobs, the whole n yard. So then what happens in 2022 after her passing and how do you end up coming into the business full-time 2 years later? Okay. So, first before I answer that question, let me give you a little bit of background of where I was in my career. So, I was working for Eli Lillian Company and I had just gotten um an informal promotion, if you will. Um, and my husband and I were moving to Ireland to run the international um hub that we had in in Ireland.
I mean, that's a pretty sick gig. Yes. They were paying for us to move out there. Um, all these different perks. And so, we were scheduled to leave on a Saturday. The Monday prior, my mom passed away unexpectedly.
And mind you, we had just left off of going on a week-l long vacation to Jamaica to celebrate her birthday. So, my mom's birthday is August 22nd, which is coming up. And then her passing is August 29th. So we just got back from this amazing vacation. She passes away. I'm preparing.
We're preparing to move to Ireland, packing all of our things. My mom passes away. And in that split moment, it's okay. What do we do with the business? What do we do with my sister who's special needs? And what do I do about going to Ireland?
Oh my gosh. And that was her decision I had to make in my life, you know, and and it was a it was a moment. It wasn't like, "Oh, let me think about it." Like, no, there's contracts that we have to fulfill and maintain. Like, I'm sure you have like an apartment or something. Oh, house.
You have a house? Yeah. Here and there. Or have you like gotten rid of your home here? Oh, so the way that it was worked out is like we were going to have renters in our home. Lily was going to arrange that for us and then pay for our living out in Ireland.
So, dude, that seems like a logistical nightmare. Yeah. And you have like a weekend Yeah. to figure it out. Okay. So when going through that thought process, major life changes like there's grieving, there's crisis, there's life changes, there's everything there.
How you take all that information in and you distill it down like what were the decisions that you were that you were making and how do you make big life decisions? Like what what process do you put these through? What lens do you look through to I don't know set yourself up for success? This may sound cheesy or very just like I don't know like known but my faith like it was in that moment my faith in my morals is what it anchored on. It was like okay what is the right thing to do in this situation? I'm not going to allow my sister to move across the state to live with a family member that she sees maybe once or twice a year.
Like she's going to come and live with me, right? Um I'm not going to allow my dad's legacy. I'm not going to allow these employees to go, you know, unemployed just because I want to go and follow my dreams. Like it would just it just came down to that for me of like, okay, what is the right thing to do in this situation? Can I do it? And there was often times I was like, I can't do this.
Like, yes, I know it and I was around it, but I'm not skilled. I didn't study horiculture. Like, I don't know any I didn't go to Purdue. like I don't know any of this stuff. Like imposter syndrome was real. But it was like hey like I've been called to this and like God does not call the qualified.
He equips them. And is that tea? That's that's good. That's good. That's good stuff right there. God does not call the qualified.
He equips that. That's Put that on a poster. Yes. That's fire. Thank you. Oh my god.
And so that's what I anchored on. And I just remember just Bible verses that I anchored on like Esther 4:14 like perhaps she was created for a time as this and just knowing that you know God is going to strengthen me. He's going to uphold me like he is going to help me and God's helped me through the last four years. Amazing. I'm like writing that down cuz I didn't all time podcast quote. We need a quote wall.
Yes. That is an alltimer. like that that I like literally had to go write that down cuz I love it so much. Thank you. Um, okay. So, take me through how steps unfold then from 2022 to 2024.
You're supposed to go to Ireland. Do do you have to just like do you just back out? Like what do you do? Do you quit your job immediately? Like what does that look like? No.
Okay. It really could be a book. I'm also pregnant at this time with my first child. Yeah, dude. If there was like a bingo card for just like large life events at one time, you have like, you know, how they talk about like it's called like it's called Blackout where you cover the entire bingo board. That's what you have.
Like every major life event you seem to have figured out. Yes. That's incred. Wow. There should be a a book/ a movie. Oh my god.
Anyone listening want to take me up on that? I would be happy. But yeah, so I'm also pregnant at this time and so um luckily I was working for really really good leaders, female leaders at that time and I just told them, hey, I have too much going on. Like unfortunately I cannot take the Ireland opportunity um cuz my life just changed. Like I need a leave of absence. So I took a year leave of absence and I also paired it with my maternity leave and so was able to like go through all of that.
Yeah. Which is one of the nice parts I would say about working in a big corporate. Yes. It's like Lily, you know, you can say whatever you want about Eli Liy. It's like they do a great job of taking care of people in in Indiana like and their employees globally, but like they have I would say it's like again with major life event. It is kind of nice to work at a large stable company that is, you know, versus if you're an entrepreneur and like crazy life events happen.
It's like, well, [ __ ] life is happening. Okay. So, you take a year. Yep. During that process, you have a child. Yeah.
having a child, um, getting guardianship over my sister. So, my sister is 19 at this point. So, going through the court system of getting legal guardianship, which is a whole another podcast episode about how hard that process is. Um, and with the business in particular, it was like my husband and I, we were just like, "Hey, we don't want to come in and change anything." So, were you running it at that point? Oh, yeah.
Yes. We were running the dayto-day. How how did employees handle that transition and how were you able like you're again corporate Eli Liy HR people and you're coming in this is like a blueco collar industry this is you know this is out in the trucks and trees and landscaping and mowing and how did they handle that change uh to someone that has this white collar background so to be honest they weren't really impacted like to them the work didn't change, right? They still got paid when they got paid. They understood that like my mom had passed away and that, you know, like my husband and I were now running it, but it wasn't an impact on them. I'm sure you have to make a decision then where it's like, do I go back to work?
Do how are things going on the green thumb side? Like, how do you start to balance and what ends up happening in 2023 that leads you to go allin full-time taking over your dad's company in 2024? So, I'll hit you with one other crazy bingo card. Pull it up. My sister had to have emergency brain surgery and she had a rare brain disease that we uncovered from 2022 to 2023. Um, and we finally got a diagnosis and they said, "Hey, if she does not get brain surgery, she is one stroke away from either dying or being permanently disabled."
And so we had to move to California to Stanford to get this surgery done because there's only like one surgeon in the nation that actually can understand the complexity of it. So that the life events really like I guess prohibited us from actually making that decision sooner cuz it's like hey I got a newborn. I got to have a baby. Okay. Right after that, my special needs sister needs emergency brain surgery and we got to move to California for 2 months to get that squared away. Then we finally come back.
She recovers and it's like, okay, I'm at work. I was working at Lily at this time. So, you're back to work. Yes, I'm back to work at this time. I was able to work remote from California. I'm kind of doing both a little bit.
Darius is working. My husband Darius is working at Lily, too. We're trying to maintain, but it's like we hey, we have potential in this. We're not the type of workers that, like you mentioned earlier, like, hey, I'm clocking out at five o'clock. Like even at Lily, like our brain was constantly going. And so it came down to do we want to go all in in someone else's dream or go all in in our dream that we actually have the ability to impact how well our successes?
Because with any corporation, there's politics, right? like you have to serve your time in order to get promoted or you hit that ceiling. Yeah. With Greek Thumb there's not necessarily a ceiling. There were two things that kept me away from from Eli Liy. One being it didn't matter.
The stock price doesn't change if Nate Spangle shows up. You know, like it's so big. It's so like you know it's not something you make an impact. Two, they didn't accept me for my internship program. But like what did you apply to? Oh, I don't know.
Like a sales thing back in the day, but I didn't have a good resume. I had a small business like media resume, but I was like I could sell anything. Yeah. So that's funny though. But they're probably looking back. Yeah.
Come on. But but like that's the thing. It's like you work at this big corporate. Uh we had someone come on and say Colonel Eli's medicine show or something like that. It's like you know which is great. One, no disrespect to Lily.
Lily is great. It is instrumental to Indiana. Absolutely. Like so so impactful. But if you do have entrepreneurial ambitions Yeah. Um, I think that there is a lot more like you got to go get your MBA, you've got to like do all these things, wait your time to eventually like, you know, rise the ranks.
Yeah. Become the Dave Ricks, you know. Absolutely. Um, versus you have this opportunity to go carry on family legacy. You get to call shots. You get to, you know, chase down the stream.
Um, and it's different than starting something from scratch. Yes. When you already have a like the hardest part is going from zero to one. Yes. I mean, I keep saying that, but then every stage is still hard. Yes.
But like, you have something. Yeah. We're not starting from scratch. No. And you have a at that point a 30-year legacy. Yeah.
That that means something. Yes. So, so you guys decide to quit your corporate jobs and go all in on the family landscaping business. Yes. Yes. Okay.
I think that was the second hardest decision of my life because to me growing, like you said, I love Eli Liy. Um, I remember growing up driving past with my parents and I'd be like, "What's that building?" And my my dad would say, "Hey, that's where smart people work." And I was like, "I'll never be there. Like, I'm a journalist. I'm a B average student.
I'm never going to work at Lily." And then I did it. Like, I worked there for 5 years. And so, Lily Stock is crazy, right? Like, it's the place that you want to work. And now you're telling me that I need to quit that job to go work for my family landscape company.
Like, why would I do that? to to I mean if you think about it like from a high level to leave at Lily where Yeah. Your dad's always told you smart people work there. For sure. Some of the smartest people that I know are my friends that work at Lily. It's crazy.
Yeah. Um but you leave your corporate job to go work for a company that both gave you everything and took away everything. That part. That part like that is an internal conundrum. Yes. My faith.
Listen, if I did not have God. Amen. I don't know. I don't know what I would do. Okay. So, you decide to go all in on Green Thumb in 2024.
Yes. I want to know last day at Lily Friday. I'm assuming Monday you start like where do where do we start? How do you start to grow the family business that's 30 years old and hasn't hasn't really innovated probably in 12 years or so? You talked about like kind of things staying pretty stable. What do you do?
I'm looking at my husband right now cuz the stuff that we could tell you. Listen, PE, we were still mailing out invoices. There was no electronical payment. We were still doing paper time cards. Like, oh boy, it was bad. So, our first like our first thing that we tackled was the employees.
Okay. And I mentioned or may have mentioned um everyone was 1099. Yeah. And so our first thing was okay, hey, everyone needs to become an employee of Green. there's too much risk. Um, so we interviewed everyone.
We made everyone reapply and interview. Some of those people stayed on. Some of those people decided that they didn't not like the new direction of the company. And so that was the first step which I think is important. Like you're building a culture. You're building like you want your quality and core valuable and longlasting.
It's like it can't be as transactional. I would say no. And then speaking of that, there was really no defined paper core values. And so we defined those safety being the first one, right? And so I always tell my employees, hey, I know what it's like to lose a parent to this work. And so that's my promise to you is that I want you to come back in one piece, not missing no fingers, no toes, but also making sure that you're psychologically safe at work.
That safety is not just bodily injury. It's more than that. And so we were able to really just define safety, integrity, doing what you're saying you're going to do. When you're in this industry, somebody can see you mowing and be like, "Hey, come mow my grass. I got $100 right now. Do it."
Like, if you're working for Green Thumb, we need to know that you're going to say, "No, I'm not going to mow your grass for this $100 that I can pocket." Like, you're going to do the right thing when no one's looking. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then development. Hey, we invest in our employees.
We pay top dollar. We send them to conferences, different development opportunities. Like we care about your personal development, but also your professional development. And then excellence. We're going to do quality work. Yeah.
Always do quality work and take pride in what we do. And so that's always been the ethos of Green Thumb, but it's never been written down and that easy acronym of side be on the side of our customers um so that people can anchor on. Wow. Yeah. The interesting piece about change is nobody loves it. No.
So you come in there with your again white collar Eli Liy corporate background. How how do you communicate and navigate extreme change in an organization? I'm sure there are other leaders out there listening that have like maybe been in similar places. Were there either meetings or conversations you had or mentors you looked to that were just like that was great advice if you have large amounts of change that you're navigating to be honest no there was nobody that we could anchor on because it was so much that was going on I mean even in this conversation that we've had you're just like it's too much for us it was just like okay we always want to communicate to people about the why that we're doing this and also just being transparent you know a lot of times leaders ers make decisions and never communicate it clearly. They communicated through other people, but we always made sure that people heard it from Darius and I directly and then they understood why we're doing it and they understand the vision that we have.
And so that's always been our motto is like, hey, we trust these people. We're a part of a team. We have different roles, but we're going to always be transparent and honest with you. Yeah. Now, here's another part. So what you're two years into this now there are not a lot of female executives in the landscaping even like blueco collar business space in general.
What have you learned about being a leader in a maledominated industry and are there are there lessons or anything that you could share to our other female listeners that are you know trying to advance their careers and that might be in like a blueco collar industry like that? Yeah, you know, it's something that I still struggle with to this day. And so, the first thing I would want like female leaders to know is that it never goes away. That feeling never goes away, but you have that other point in your voice or the other voice in your head, excuse me, that will talk back to that imposttor syndrome, right? Cuz that at the root, that's what it is. And so, what I would tell them is you are in this space for a reason.
You were created to be in this space and don't water down who you are to fit in. So when I show up to meetings, I'm still going to look like a woman. I'm still going to look cute. I'm still going to look put together and I'm still going to voice my opinion because that is the beauty of women is that we think about things differently than maybe men do. And being able to have that diversity of thought in rooms is so beneficial and that's how you innovate. That's how you grow.
And revenue is tied to just to tied to innovation. And it's like I don't know, you talk about the the places that you serve are equal, let's say on the residential side, more than likely equally consumed by men and women. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, landscaping, all that stuff is super important for both genders. You talk about like people that are going into their office. It's like honestly some of it might even be more like the more of the decision maker is the female of that of Yeah.
So it's like oh being able to think about like the true decision maker in a household of like what they're going to like and the process and there's just I mean there's there has to be I mean I think in everything diversity of thought is so important. um even if you still decide like oh the way we have been doing it is the right way but even just like thinking from a different perspective I think that's the piece that separates like the companies that are bound for like really high trajectories are getting feedback and information even if it hurts most of the time it's going to hurt like whether it's my friends or other people that I know I'll like send out videos send out content that we do all the time and I like have to reiterate like please don't just say this is good like tell me what's wrong and it hurts hurts cuz it's almost like someone's like I always say it's like calling your baby ugly and it's like dude you know like when someone looks at the thing that you're building or whatever it is and it says that it's wrong it's not easy but it's important to digest that feedback make good decisions and and push a company forward.
Absolutely. You know that's something that we're really focused on right now is our employee experience. We're not so focused on us as like we're focused on us as a business and our growth, but what is our experience from that initial contact to that last moment of giving a review and giving that feedback. We ask for feedback for every single one of our jobs. And if people are in a long-term contract, we ask for monthly, quarterly feedback because we want to get better. That's how you get better is by knowing the lived experiences of people.
And that's where we spend a lot of our time is understanding the employee like excuse me the customer experience and what their journeys like, what their pain points are and really getting to understand them. So yes, that's definitely what we do and we don't shy away from it either because how do you get better if you don't know what's going on? Yeah, absolutely. The other piece about landscaping is there are a lot of options. Yes. How do you navigate such a competitive landscape like that and uh and how have you been able to stand out in a saturated industry?
Yeah. Yeah. So, first and foremost, I think a lot of people see our industry as a commodity, right? The lowest price. A chuck in a truck is like I like to call it. But we'll say a chuck in a truck.
That's Chuck in a truck. Yes. Yes. Chuck in a truck that will be like, "Hey, I'll mow your grass for 10 cents." It's like I'm never going to be able to compete with Chuck in a truck where it's just him and his truck. No overhead, no employees, no nothing.
And so for me, we really anchor on just sharing our story and sharing our why because we know that people there's only so many ways you can cut grass. Like let's be honest, there's so many ways that you can do it. But when you invest with Green Thumb, you're investing into people having meaningful careers. We're pouring dollars back into our community. And I don't know about you, but I like to know that my dollars are being spit of making the community better, right? And so that's what we try to anchor on is telling our story, our mission, our why, and that people know that this is purpose behind what we're doing.
And I think half the battle too in like these bluecollar industries is like making the process easy, answering your phone, like doing say you're going to do when you say you're going to do. The worst thing is like when you get some and it's like, yeah, I mean, it's just part of it. Congrats to whoever it is for being busy, but it's like, yeah, I can make it out there in six weeks or in forever. And it's like, or they don't answer and don't call you back. Yes. Yeah.
It's the worst. And, you know, we try to be transparent about that because also like we really do anchor on being like a boutique. Like we really are very in integrated into our process. And so sometimes it is a reality. Hey, we can't get you in for 6 weeks, but we're we're going to tell you straight on. So, if you want to wait for this green thumb experience or you want to go somewhere else, but at least you know, and a lot of times people don't let you know.
They're like, they'll string you along and that's not what we do. Well, maybe I can fit you in if someone and then you're like, are you coming today? Echo, I have another really good I always talk about this blue collar example. So, upstairs is Neighbor Serve. I don't know if you've heard of that. No.
What is it? They have two sides of their business. one is a I would say network of locallyowned home service businesses. So from things like landscaping but also you know tree trimming and plumbers and but all you have to be 51% or more locally owned and so they work on that side of bringing together different contractors that are locally owned service pros that are building businesses across central Indiana and they actually just expanded to Bloomington. On the other side, they have two sides, which is kind of like the OG Angie's List where you pay, so I pay $100 a year to have access to their list of vetted contractors that are that are not just like I feel like sometimes I like, you know, Google it and I'm getting sold off to like whatever the highest bidder is and or like you'll get 12 calls if you like fill out the wrong form on accident and it's like, dude, this is overwhelming. So, it's all locally owned.
You get real people the whole nine yards, but they also have home concierge customers. So, you know, you think of like the higher value homes that are, you know, basically like fractional property management. Okay? So, like you can you have a home concierge, something you want to do a renovation or like you know your lawn care, all the stuff there just goes through your home concier so you don't have to worry about it. Kind of set your house on autopilot. It's really nice.
That's awesome. So, through neighborf I had to get my garage door worked on. Okay. Okay. So, there's a guy that I met through Neighbor Serve. They introduced me to him.
He runs his garage door business. He had worked at a big company for a long time and left to go start his own garage door company. It's just him. Um, he's working on growing his company. He like, but he does the best work at such a fair and honest price. So, I get introduced.
I'm like, "Hey, can you make it out?" And he's like, "Yeah, I can be there at 12:00." And he texts me at like 11:30 and is like, "Man, I'm so so sorry. I'm going to be there at 12:05. Like, I had to get gas. I was And he goes, the next message is, "Do you want anything from the gas station?"
And I'm just like, "Dude, I love this guy." He's like 5 minutes late cuz he had to get gas. He's so apologetic, but he's like offering to bring me like I get you like a fountain drink or something. I'm just like, dude, he comes there and pretty like the best work at the fairest price. I felt like a big company like this. There's a number to them.
Yeah. And like a garage door is also like you could tell me 5,000, you could tell me 300. Like I have no idea like what we're working with here. He's like, "Yeah, that'll be 250 bucks." Like blah blah blah blah. Fixes the whole thing.
And he's like, "I if it would mean so much to me if you left a review." And I'm like, "These are the kind of like people with stories and families and like the service that you're going to get from I don't know, places that care about quality and it's not just, you know, all about the money, all about this, that." So that's my like locally owned like going with someone like that. I don't know. I just think it's it's awesome. Yeah.
You you know Darius and I used to always say like our motto is like any customer that we have we're going to treat you like you are part of our family. Like your your yard is our yard. And we've had to stop saying that to some of our employees because they're like well some of our employees are like hey I do this all day long. I'm not really going to do anything to my yard. So, we've really just tried to anchor on that whole thing of like, hey, we are not a big corporation where everyone's another number for us. Like, we treat every single person as a person and just really, you know, giving that human side of the work that we do.
When you look back and think about the legacy of Green Thumb and the legacy that you're going to leave with Green Thumb, what do you hope people think about it? I I really just hope people see it more than just kind of like our tagline, we do more than grow grass. we grow stronger communities and really anchoring on the things that we've, you know, we do for our community. We have an internship program and so we've been able to help college students get that first corporate experience and like just knowing that we played a pivotal role in like their first workplace experience is like an example what I hope that we're able to do for our employees, the people that we serve every single day, and just really making a a mark on people. This has been so fun. We've come to our portion of the show where we talk all things Indiana.
Yes, love it. So, this first question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homejart. com. My question for you, why do you call Indiana home?
Well, first and foremost, Indiana is all that I know. Um, but I choose to stay here because it's a part of who I am. like I'm born, raised, school, all the things. And just that, you know, who's your hospitality as people, we say it, but when you go to another state and you're like saying excuse me or saying hi and people are like, why are you speaking to me? Like I can't imagine, you know, living in another state. So, I love Indiana.
Love that. Okay. Landscaping jobs. What one is the hardest? If you thought about all the jobs that the crews do out there, what one's the hardest? Might have to phone a friend on that one.
Oh yeah, hardscape and deck. So there's there's landscape maintenance, which is like the typical maintenance, like mowing your grass, picking your weeds. Then there's like landscape construction, which is like, you know, the hard pavers, hardcapes. Um, definitely the hardcapes, pavers, decks, all the outdoor living side is definitely the hardest. Oh, for sure. Okay.
Definitely a skilled trade. Oh, I we didn't even touch on Sometimes I like look at it and it's like the fact that human beings can build some of this stuff is so crazy to me. That's crazy. Okay, if you were just getting started with landscaping, if someone out there like, you know, maybe they just bought their first house and they want to like spruce things up a little bit, where would you start? What's like the the starter to spruce up your landscaping? Well, okay, this is kind of a loaded question because it's like what's important to them?
How are they going to use the space? But to me, curb appeal, we're just talking about if you're just I want to flip curb appeal at the beginning. What do we do? Oh, you're definitely going to get a turf application. Like green grass, you know, it's a whole science to grass being green, right? You have to water grass.
With our climate that we're in right now, or excuse me, not climate, but in Indiana, the type of grass that we have, Kentucky blueg grass, requires a lot of water, and a lot of people don't water their grass. So that's half the reason why your grass isn't green. And mine looks like so so yellow and brown. Yes, you need potassium in your grass. All these different elements. So definitely a fivestep program.
BRB. I'm going to go get like a bundle of bananas and just start throwing that out in my yard like, "All right, we we're good to go." This is what they said. Okay. Wow. I I was not thinking that that's where you start, but just the coloration of your grass.
That is true. Thick and lush and just making it like you want to walk on your grass without shoes on. That's my grass. I don't want like uh No, I'm saying like I don't want to walk on my grass because it's like I'm like you want soft carpet. Yeah. All right.
You might have sold me on that. Yes. Yes. We'll talk after. Okay. Okay.
What's like the the pinnacle? Like if if you're looking out and you see landscaping and you're like this person gets it. Like how do you identify someone who knows ball when it comes to landscape? So, like if I'm driving by, the thing that I looked at is how green is their grass, how lush is their grass, how's the edging of like Yes, the edging. But really what does it for me is like I'm a little biased though. Do you have like annual plants?
So, do you have those flowers that only last for like a few months on your yard? And are they lush flowing out? Like, are you invested in that? cuz there's a difference between a perennial plant that comes back every year, but then there's annual plants that you have to like nurture and water and fertilize. And so when I look at those houses that have all those different criteria, they have a green thumb. Wow.
I love that. That's a good one. I mean, I talk about Yeah. when you have like crisp lines like on the edges of your breasts like a sharp like a sharp haircut. Yes. Like you know when someone just has like a crispy fade and you're like those two are like synonymous for me.
Yes. But if you have the flowers though and you're able to maintain it and you're investing in that, you really care about your grass. I love that. I I do not have a green thumb. I'm like the least the least landscape savvy person out there. Um one final question.
Yes. And then I have well guess we have four questions. Three that I ask every guest but one before we transition over there. If your dad could see you in green thumb today, what do you think he would say? That's such a good question. I think he'd be so proud.
Like I really think that he would be proud. And I think that he would say like you're doing everything that I envision you to do. Like I remember those talks in the truck, like him just talking to me about you're a leader, you're not a follower, like you're made for more. And just him seeing that I've been able to carry on his legacy. I think he would just be so proud. I think he would, too.
I'm a little choked up. Oh my goodness, Nate. Come on. I didn't think I was going to be crying today. Oh, I mean, it's just such an impactful story. And one that I think is lost in 2026 often is legacy.
Yeah. Like again, like legacy matters. It does and carrying on stuff that whether it's grandparents or parents or you know other people like I don't know through generations it's like in a world of AI and new builds and this and that like I don't know the legacy part of it it's like green thumb is 34 years old. Yeah. Like Yeah. It's just so incredible.
Not to talk about race, but just sharing my lived experience is like, you know, my dad's great-grandparents were slaves. So to think about that in perspective, right? Like it wasn't like a generational thing. Like it started with my dad. I'm second generation and I'm hopeful that my daughter will take it on. But just the weight of that, like my dad started Green Thumb in a onecar garage in the poorest zip code in Indianapolis.
the poorest, not the rich, came from nothing. I can't let it die. That is I mean, truthfully, when you think about it, that's the American dream. Yes. Like the true that is something that is for sure I think lost on modern society. Yeah.
Is like it's it's not like how do I build this thing from Z. It's like how do I set something on autopilot that prints me money that is built with AI that is all and it's not like starting in a onecar garage in Martenddale Brightwood. Yeah. Building something up, shaking hands, like holding up to your word. Like your legacy. Yeah.
Like that is something. It's like if one day I grow up and all I do is turn over an AI program that works for like a kid, like kudos. Like that's awesome. But like having something that matters and has I don't know, just the tangibility of it. Yes. I mean, it is truthfully the American dream.
It is, right? Like, it is. Kudos to you all going through all the different life circumstances that you've seen and being grounded and rooted. Like so many people experience half that adversity and like become lost. Yeah. And so hearing you talk about your faith, hearing you talk about legacy, hearing you talk about the hard work and all the different things you learned from your parents, from your dad going through this journey, it is so so so inspiring.
Like truthfully, this has been I feel like uh when I started putting together and working with with Jenna to build the outline for this uh it's like you go in thinking, okay, we're going to talk landscaping, we're going to talk like grass. Hell, we spent like 10% talking about grass and 90% talking about people and adversity and navigating difficult life conversations and challenges. And I think that that's that's what makes conversations like this so special. Yeah. I mean, it was it's truly been an honor to learn about you and your family's story. Thank you.
I I'm just so pumped and like I love it. This is a great episode. Thank you. Uh if people want to learn more about you, if they want to learn more about Green Thumb, how can they do that? Yeah, so we are on all the socials. So, Green Thumb Landscape on Facebook, Green Thumb Up on Instagram, Tik Tok, all the things.
Or you can email us. I'm sure you'll have it in the show notes um where people can get in contact with us. Perfect. I love it. All right. As we wrap up the show, we have the same three questions that we ask every guest who comes on.
Okay. So, first it's your opportunity to shed some light on a place that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? Bestiey's Table. Shout out to Tyler Williams. He's like one of my good friends.
Yes. I have seen it all over. I haven't made it down there yet. I have to go. Oh my gosh. And Tyler, you should have him as a guest if I say so myself.
He has an amazing story. So, just 30 seconds. He um had this dream when he was 6 years old to open a burnt restaurant and now he is doing it. He's had celebrities come in. The food is top tier. Will you make an intro?
Yes. I would be happy to. That would be so happy to. I'll text him right now. Please do. Yes.
The the Bestie table for sure. Everyone is raving about it. Like it is popping off. It's Oh my gosh, it's so good. And it's it's not in like a traditional area, right? Where's it at?
It's right across from University of Indianapolis and like on the south side. Yeah. Southside, bright yellow building. It's amazing. Definitely hidden gym. Well, we kind of hit a two for one special there cuz my next question is all about identifying new podcast guests and people that are doing great things.
I say, who's a hooer we need to keep on our radar? Tyler Williams, for sure. Okay, I need an introduction for sure. Okay, finally. Oh man, when you think about being a lifelong Indiana resident from your time growing up here in Indianapolis, going to Heritage Christian, then Ball State, working at Kroger, working at Lily, now owning your own business. I want to know when you close your eyes and think about what it means to be a Hooer.
What is your favorite Indiana memory? Honestly, like having Oprah come to Ball State is like a big thing for me and being able to be a part of that as a journalist student at Ball State. That's like a big one for me. Um, but the one that I just is on my heart and it might be just time. The Indiana State Fair, like I am a huge fair person. My husband is so annoyed.
Like I know all the facts. I was a Marian County Fair uh Queen Corps and just I covered the state fair at Ball State for some time and it's going on right now and just knowing the history and then the in like we are a farm state and I'm in the industry of like grass and horiculture and all the different things like the fair is just it just brings me so much life and energy. It's more than just riding rides and eating food. There's so much rich rich history and just things to understand about our amazing state. So, I love the state fair. This is wild.
One, I love the state fair. We went yesterday. So much fun. But two, you're the second person today to talk to me about the Marian County Fair. Yes. Okay.
One, I don't think a lot of people know that Indianapolis/Marian County has a fair. Two, are there animals? Yes. Who's raising animals in Marian County? It's a whole It's a whole thing. But I will say that the Marian County has gotten Marian County Fair has gotten some bad press in recent years about around safety.
We went this year. It was not I didn't feel unsafe, but it is amazing. Fun fact, I always have to tell people this. Elephant ears that we know as a fair food staple started at the Marian County Fair as like a food competition item. And the original elephant ear um what is it like trailer is at the Marian County Fair. It's a whole thing.
Um hopefully it's Googleable, but it's one of those things that we just found out with going to the fair every single year. But Marian County Fair is definitely part of my heart. I grew up being in the baby contest as like a six-month-old. So definitely the fairs here. Wow, that is crazy. I need to go do like a deep dive on this.
Yeah. Um because I just don't know where. Like I'm looking at the map. They have a poultry barn. They have like cows, pigs, sheep. Yeah.
But like where are they growing these cows? Like in Marian County. I have no idea. Like I just got to know. I'm going to go check this out. Yes, you should.
Cuz I want to know where they're located within Marian County where you could raise a cow. Like is someone have like a pet cow? you know, like is a cow like in your house like in Meridian Kesler? Like this is wild to me. But I love it. That's really really fun to know.
This has been such an awesome conversation. I'm so grateful that you came on and shared your family story, your business story, like just everything. There's certain times uh where I I walk out of the studio and I'm just like that was just awesome. And this is one of those moments. So, uh, one more time, social media, website, where can people find you guys at? Yes, greenthumbup.
com. E at the end of green, cuz we're extra green. I love And then green thumb up on all social platforms. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Keep up the great work and we'll talk to you soon.
Thank you so much. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get