Every time Seamless has made the biggest leaps forward have been directly after like we thought we were going to go out of business. We've tried to burn this thing down so many times like two versus 1300, you know, like that's crazy. Those places have been around for a long time. For years, there have been people keeping those roofs dry. It's tough to replicate relationships that are 30 years old when you're 40. You go from buying a roofing company where you didn't know if you owned a ladder.
Now, 9 years later, what's the impact [music] that you're making around the country? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hooser State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Today we have a very special episode. We are recording live from Carb [music] Day at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. And it's a very, very special episode with two of my favorite people in all of the world.
Let's go. So yeah, come on now. Now, Eric and Dustin lead Seamless Roofing. [music] They're an Indianapolis based commercial roofing company that has grown around relationships, operational excellence, and solving [music] real problems for clients. I first met these guys in a suite on the home stretch right here at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. So, it's only fitting that we do your podcast episode here at the track.
I'm super excited to dive in to your guys's entrepreneurship journey, [music] the risk that you guys took, how you've been able to grow an incredible business built around culture, operations, and just mentorship. I'm I'm just so excited for this episode. I know that the whole crew at Seamless is going to love it. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Can you just talk about operations one more time? Yeah, I knew that if we were going to do an intro, we had to talk about operations.
Operational experts. Uh, what I love about this story is that you two and throughout the episode, everyone's going to know you're lifelong friends. Like since day one, OG Brownsburg Bulldogs, we're talking boys from way back. When did you guys first meet each other? Hey, for Dustin's going to tell the story cuz that's what he does. But we we have been friends for a long time.
We have known each other forever. The friendship was a it was an acquired taste. It came junior highish era, but it uh we've known each other forever. Yeah, he's not wrong. Uh he reminds me often uh when he doesn't like my ideas, how much he didn't like me when we were 7 8 9 years old playing football against each other. So, uh Oh, little Brownsburg.
Brownsburg East versus West or Pee-Wee football, bro. Oh, you didn't want to come up against the Vikings in the playoffs. This is not good. The 49ers went down hard. I love it. And what you guys are going to realize, the listeners, the stories have, you know, they're endless.
There are endless stories of high school sports, of elementary sports, of, you know, growing up playing from rugby and wrestling to football. Like sports runs deep in the culture of Seamless, uh, and your guys' friendship cuz I mean, you grew up by the time you got to high school, you were high school teammates, correct? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Um, and then you both went off to separate colleges. So the story ends up when you guys move back to Indie, one's working in finance, one's working in construction, and you decide that, you know, maybe this life of working for other people isn't all it's cracked up to be.
And like what what gives you the idea to go take a risk and start a commercial roofing company? Great question. Cuz uh I can tell you that uh we we chatted about doing something together when we were 15 years old. And uh it wouldn't be right to not include Aaron in this whole conversation cuz Aaron was my younger brother's best friend growing up and uh he and my younger brother both talked about doing something together when they grew up. And so this was always something that you know we dreamed about, we thought about. Um roofing was never going to be it.
Didn't even know the industry existed when we uh you know were conceptualizing what life might be when we you know grow up and take over the world. You know my brother joined the Air Force. We started talking about I don't know 2016 time frame when you know Miles brought you back to Miles you were firstborn. Yes. Right. Brought you back to Indie.
Took you out of God's country in Colorado. Yeah. I thought I'd never come back but really it's worked out. It's worked out. We We always love a boomerang. That's what we call you.
Someone who grows up here leaves and then they come back. That's what boomerangs do. I used to joke that my wife Jamie, I used to joke that if she said we could go back to Colorado, I'd get the truck and we'd leave today. But that ship sailed now. We're we're here forever. Amen.
Okay. So, at the time though, Dustin, you're working in finance, correct? Yeah. Uh was a you know, finance major in college, graduated May of 09 when a lot of people didn't want advice from a 23-year-old kid about retirement. Not a great time to be in finance, but uh I've got a fairly eclectic background on my LinkedIn resume. I bounced around a lot, got asked to leave a lot.
It was polite, but it was also, you know, Monday, if you're not here, that's fine. Why do you think that is? Why Why do you think that those other career paths weren't the right one for you? There is something to be said about how you're built, how you're how you're designed. um you know in reflection you know I was definitely in the wrong seat had a lot of ambition had a lot of ideas but uh didn't didn't have the risk right um so you know he and I started talking Aaron and I started talking the three of us and the ambition you know almost 10 years ago was like let's do something on the side when we're 40 I'm 40 this summer and uh we'll turn nine this summer that's great well you're like yeah one day it's so easy cuz entrepreneurship one day when I'm o older when life is more stable when it makes sense when you're magically smart enough to figure out how to do it. Yeah.
Is then it'll make sense for me to quit my job and start a business. But life came at you guys a little bit quicker. No doubt. Um was fired for the second time in my career. Uh got on the horn with these guys. I said, "Hey, what do you think about, you know, moving the timeline up?"
And both of them, you know, said, "What's going on?" I was like, "Well, I'd like to have a job. That'd be cool. Uh had a uh a one-year-old at home, beautiful wife. He had the same. And uh he's like, "Are you crazy?"
It's like a little bit [laughter] crazy or or like I don't want to say like desperate, but like your back's against the wall. You have to figure something out. Well, I I I do think that there is a a um there's a fortitude that's built, right? And there's a an existential nature, right? when you need to make a paycheck that transforms how you go to work. Yeah.
Right. And um trying to go to work in other paradigms wasn't working for me. I was blessed to have, you know, two buddies that uh that believed that we could do something special if we brought our talents together. And um you know, we we tried something. I'd never been on a roof before. We owned a roofing company.
It's do or die time. It's time to put your money where your mouth is. Commercial roofing was never the plan. How did you end up starting a commercial roofing company? Well, one of the things about where I worked in finance is uh I worked with a guy that was fantastic. Best thing he ever did for me was he always put me in the room.
And I played this game in my head when I would uh be sitting with a lot of uh business owners, influential uh people, uh just brilliant thinkers. And in my head, I I just asked the question like who doesn't belong? and all the time like Scott put me in rooms where I was the one that was raising my hand in my head. Um, so I got to see a lot of things that uh that were formative. Uh, I got to experience a lot of things that were uh, you know, really influential and learn uh, from guys that did incredible things with their companies, with their people. So in that conversation um about how do we get to roofing you know you fund you know one deal and you get to see every deck that exists in the city.
It's kind of the way that the finance world works is that, you know, deals and decks chase capital and we'd shown that we were able to fund some things and there was a roofing company that had an idea in 2013 that, you know, landed on my desk to evaluate and I was blown away by the concept. I thought, you know, if this is executed well, I think it could be really, really cool. Um, but again, I'd never I'd never been in construction. I'd never uh even knew that the roofing industry really existed. Um but Eric had and Eric grew up in construction, you know, BCM major at Purdue project manager of the year everywhere that you went. Not true.
This guy leaves places and and gets told, "Hey, come back whenever you want." [laughter] Not not necessarily the same for Dustin. No. No. It's uh it's very frustrating because I want to be likable and I'm not. So he is likable.
So Eric, take me to the conversation where Dustin comes to you and says, "I got hold my beer. I got this idea. It's commercial roofing." Well, it actually it was a little bit slower burn than that. He uh he did come and say, "I got fired again. Uh I don't know that I'm hirable, so I want to let's bump up the timeline of what we talked about."
And I was terrified to start something from scratch. Um, I think he accepted my my fear and said, "What if what if we look at acquiring something?" And I was like, "That feels much better because surely other entrepreneurs and business owners know what they're doing." That's one thing I've learned. Nobody knows what they're doing. Um, so we looked at a couple different companies.
I felt most comfortable in the construction space. That's what I went to school for. That's the industry I worked in. And the other thing I knew was I hadn't worked with any roofing companies that I really enjoyed. Like, yeah, nobody'd answer the phone. Nobody do what they said they were going to do.
I was like, I don't know anything about roofing. You don't know anything about roofing, but we can we can hit some of those marks. Yeah. Like answering the phone is that's just like an easy skill. You don't have to know anything about roofing to get on the phone. No, we can figure it out.
No, we uh we talk about with our team all the time. We talk about kindergarten rules. Yeah. Right. Like you learn how to be a good citizen in kindergarten. Yeah.
Right. Like so treat other people the way you want to be treated. Keep your hands to yourself. That's always the the levity line. It's a good rule in construction. Honestly, not bad, dude.
It's good for every adult. Do what you say you're going to do. Kindergarten rules, baby. Right. Like they're fantastic. So, the idea then to acquire a business starts to get uh brought up.
How do you identify? We're going to acquire a business. We're going to get the right funding and we're going all in on commercial roofing. I think one thing that that helped me through the process cuz it was terrifying. Like I agreed that we should do our own thing and start it. But we were both blessed like both of our parents at some point had owned their own business.
We both had uncles as well. Yeah. Aaron, we both had uncles who owned their own business. So between Aaron, Dustin and I, we knew we had a group of mentors or at least resources we could talk to about things. We weren't starting from scratch truly. Like we I talked to my parents, my uncle, he did the same.
Aaron did the same. We met with everybody's parent like what are things we should think about? But then, okay, how many of those conversations said, "Gentlemen, do not do this." There wasn't a single one. None from that group. Every everybody from the outside thought we were But the in the insiders though, the people that really know you, your character, your ambition, they know who you are as people, they were all supportive and said, "This is the right thing."
Absolutely. I I I think being supportive and encouraging is different than letting somebody know everything's going to be okay. Right. So um they they all uh encouraged us to chase what we believed we could do but we'd experienced the lifestyle of entrepreneurs as well. And um and that's something that I think is very important to understand when you when you get into this it's not just a career change. Um it's going to cost you something.
And we spent a lot of time uh with each other talking about like how would we go to work? What do we actually want to build? Not just a widget, but as a place to go to work. Um I still quote you when I ask you that question like what do you want to build? I just wanted to work somewhere that didn't suck. I mean, it's it's it's simple and that's your gold star.
That's your north star. Simple and beautiful, right? Kindergarten rules and make a place that doesn't suck. It guides how we make a lot of decisions. It it sounds silly, but the greater idea of like what kind of place do people want to come to work? What kind of place do clients want to work with?
What kind of place [clears throat] do we want to work together at? And specifically around blue collar, I don't know if that's necessarily like I think if you build a tech company, you build Salesforce, clearly everyone's like, "Yeah, we got to have kombucha on tap and blah." And you're thinking about building a desirable workplace. But like for a blueco collar industry where you have people up on roofs, you are out there selling uh selling roofs like people don't necessarily think about making a an inviting workplace or a place that people are excited to come to work every day. No, I I agree. Uh another one of our constant refrains is like you know how you feel about what you do and where you work on Sunday night, not Monday morning.
Wow, that's prolific. But like you know our guys and and us as well we we enjoy what we do and who you do it with but it's because of who we do it with. Widget itself roofing you know it's it's it's a disregarded industry right like it's never impressive when you walk up and tell somebody I work at a roofing company. In fact it's one of the quickest exits from the conversation you can have. Yeah. the usually the followup question is do you have a problem or do you not read good how long how long you know like your GED yeah basically and and and unfortunately like that that's the reputation um you know in the professional space about you know some of the trades and and I'm not talking bad about anything like with that concept of building a place that doesn't suck it it it it is our northstar like we want to do this for a long Yeah, we want our guys to do this for a long time and we want them to enjoy it, but at the same time like we want them to be incredible fathers, incredible husbands, incredible members of society, great friends.
We want them to enjoy this one life that we get to live, right? Works a part of it. Yeah. How did you guys identify the right business to buy? And how did you put that together? I mean, you guys were what, uh, early 30s?
Yeah, early 30s. How do you put together and identify the business that you wanted to buy and and what was the final conversation where you like, "All right, we're going to sign these these papers and we're going to put our money where our mouth is. Can I tell my story and then you blow it up? That'd be great." So, we had a very, you know, stringent due diligence process. Um, you know, I I' I'd come from that space and I I knew I knew what the due diligence actually looked like.
Um we identified three companies, interviewed, spent a lot of time, you know, working through the financials and uh still arrived at at Seamless being, you know, the company in 2017. I mean, one of them was uh in the manufacturing space. I was like, I can figure out how to do that probably. But the roofing thing, I know how to be in a contracting business. Like I know how to make customers happy. I know the the rule set of that game.
I felt most comfortable doing that whether it was the most attractive business on paper or not. So, it was the one I was most excited. How strong was our due diligence? Dude, looking back now, I thought it was good. Like, we had templates and we talked to people. We YouTubed it.
We Dude, looking back now, I'm very glad we did it, but the due diligence was tragic. like what like what were you what do you look back at now and you're like I can't believe we didn't ask them this about acquiring a business. I think it's easier to say like um and and and don't get me wrong the previous owners great people and everything else. The easiest thing to look at is like what still exists today and it's the logo and the name and we're we're we're very pleased with the the logo and the name. We didn't know what we didn't know. But that's one of the beautiful and exciting things.
And you know, sometimes the most exciting thing you get to do is the thing that's the scariest thing you could do. Yeah. Absolutely. And so you guys get the deal done, sign all the paperwork. What do you take over? Like you finish the transaction.
Do you have like equipment and materials? And And for anyone that knows, like you guys like I mean you're buying a roofing business. I'm assuming you're getting the materials and the the ability to go put roofs on commercial places. Yeah, we were too. Yeah, we uh we got a storage unit that was full of various things. Some helpful, some not.
We did uh there was one employee there was one of the the guy's relatives. He's a great guy. Does not I'll previs this like not a ton of people drive with us. We're very aggressive. Yeah. Uh we have hard takes um and a lot of depth.
No, he he wasn't going to work be able to work with us. I don't but not but he did help transition the company from the previous owners to us. He went to Vegas with us. One of the things we bought was they had already signed up to be at a trade show in Vegas. Um, so we show up at said trade show in shirts that Dustin bought from Edinburg and then Aaron took down to Bloomington and uh Aaron gave them the right colors to put on the shirt. They put the wrong colors on the shirt and then our booth didn't show up.
So we're literally We were in Vegas. The booth was shipped to Los Angeles. [laughter] No, this is actually before we we finalized the deal. We're representing Seamless 5 weeks before we closed on the company. like and you're still full full-time employed. So, this is all PTO PTO days to go.
Sorry to uh my previous employer. Wow. We're waking up at 4 to try to stay on Eastern time instead of, you know, adjusting like it just it was it was crazy, man. And we were young. We were ignorant. Um but I do think like uh what we did know is that the three of us had complimentary skill sets.
Yeah. and we had a lot of depth and trust and you know the more that we encouraged each other right like you know he is one of the best tactical thinkers that I've ever met and he's also a wrestler and bit of a hillbilly and he doesn't like anybody knowing that he's smart you know so he plays this game with people but at the same time like if a decision needs to be made in the next five He's the best one on the team to make that important decision. Um, and Aaron, Aaron is what everybody thinks the sales rep ought to be, right? But in a good way. He's the most likable person I know. I'm not saying that as a joke.
Aaron makes Aaron makes friends on airplanes, man. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, he is. It gets people to take their their their headphones off and and Well, it's just that smile and that like charisma, you know, thatable laugh. It's just so disarming and it's authentic.
Yeah. It is not [ __ ] Yeah. People like Dustin and I need that optimism. Dustin's generally happier than me, but if the two of us were of course of course the operations guy is not necessarily the uh the most optimistic one on the team. No, but if Dustin and I were in charge of uh making sure everybody was like ready to charge the hill, it wouldn't go well. You have to have air.
It is a good dynamic. And I love how open you guys are about what you're good at and what you're not and how honest you are with each other about again what you're good at and what you're not. And I think that is a little bit of the secret sauce that has helped you guys grow over the years. That's what makes us sustainable. Um that's what makes us want to come to work. I think we grew up in a in a paradigm where you were encouraged to work on the things that you weren't naturally gifted in.
Like be well-rounded. Yeah. I've learned that if I'm if I wake up and I'm good at something, like one, that's a thing that I want to do. It's not it's not lazy. It's not it's not um not trying or anything like you know that. What it is is understanding my giftedness.
Yeah. How he designed me. Yeah. and living in that, bringing that and stewarding that skill set correctly. And I think then, you know, out of out of trust and and and a lot of time, then seeing that in other people and encouraging them show up exactly as they were designed, like you know, you're gifted in this, man. It's similar to conversation we had with you.
Like, bro, like, are you kidding me? This is what we're doing. Here we are. Are you kidding me? Come on. This is what you've done is incredible, bro.
You're too nice to me. Not even uh Okay, but here's where I want to dive into. You talk about leaning into your gifts. Uh Dustin, you are a gifted conversationalist, but even the most gifted and confident conversationalist. At the end of the day, you had to convince someone to buy a roof from [snorts] you all who had never sold a roof, never been on a roof for the most part. Take me through the first deal you guys closed and how you were how you were able to get someone to believe in you all that you could get the job done.
Well, I think it's important to to talk about, you know, where we built it because I don't know that this this strategy works in other places. That's how neat Indiana is, right? The identity of the state, the identity of the city, the people that exist here, right? Um so you know we're 2 months close close in June and uh two months you haven't closed a deal. No after closing the uh the company we we yeah you know everything else. So I'm sitting in front of this husband wife entrepreneurial comp uh couple you know he had he had already signed the contract.
she was getting ready to sign the contract and and the down payment check and and she looks up from, you know, her desk and she goes, "You know, Dustin, you've told me that um you know, you acquired this company 2 months ago and you've never done a project and you know, we're about to spend you know, significant amount of money for you to come, you know, restore our roof. just one more time, help me be comfortable in, you know, giving you a significant sum of money, uh, that I'm not crazy. And it was it was really a sweet moment. Um, and and we we we were working with a crew that had done this many times. We're working with a product that had been in the marketplace for a decade, you know, very successful. And I could have, you know, talked about all that kind of stuff or Eric's background in construction.
And uh what I looked at her and said is like, you know, I'm going to ask everybody else that I talk to about allowing us to roof their facilities and I'm going to ask them to call you and I want you to be honest about what it was like to work with me and my team. So that means that my entire go to market is going to fall apart if we don't do a great job to your expectations, not mine. because I want you to tell everybody else what it was like to work with me. And I think that trades in the city. I think that trades in the state, you know, this, you know, very relational context where people do know who you are, what you do, and your reputation, you know, precedes you. Yeah.
And she looked you in the eyes and said, "All right." Oh, she looked straight down and and signed the paperwork. Like I don't I don't know that there was a better answer for what she was actually asking me. There you go. We can't fail. How did that project go?
Uh uh you know, this brings me to another thing that Eric uh constantly says to our team that really gives me a ton of comfort. People remember the first 10% of a project and the last 10% of a project. Nobody remembers the middle. And you know, he used to tell clients that, you know, you should hire us cuz I care more than everybody else out there, which I I thought you can't you can't say that cuz we don't know how much everybody else cares. But he has a way of saying things that land that nobody else could ever say. Um because he he he he means it.
It's it's really it's really a talent. And um on that the middle of the project was awful. It rained for two straight weeks. We showed our ignorance. We asked for forgiveness. We told them we'd solve the problem.
Uh we're still serving them today on maintenance, right? The project is performing. It is building's still there. Business has transacted next generation and and Trey who uh is our main contact. I've I've talked to in the last 3 weeks, which is really really neat that 9 years later, you know, we're still chatting and and everybody remembers that project. Wow.
And and I'm sure delivering on that and being able to point back to the first project you did and introduce future customers that matter, you know, and like as you think of transformational moments along this 9-year journey was seamless. One landing the first deal, getting that first one to believe in you, that's transformational. What were the other milestones along this 9-year journey that you feel like are transformational moments of the seamless journey? I think there's a couple different lenses to look through it, but for me from the operational standpoint, it's when uh when things have been the worst, like I have this joke that I think there's a lot of truth to that uh God doesn't let you learn lessons other than the hard way. It's uh the every time Seamless has made the biggest leaps forward have been directly after like we thought the business you were going to go out of business. It's been multiple times.
Oh, dude. We've tried to burn this thing down so many times. We just haven't succeeded yet. [laughter] No, we've um unfortunately we've had to let people go. We thought we were going to have to sell houses and cars and go to the bank and everything else. And then almost immediately after that, each time the best thing that's ever happened to St.
Louis has happened. It's opened our eyes to hard decisions that we need to make that were pretty obvious for 6 to 12 months leading up to that that we were that we were just ignorant to or too afraid to make. It's hard or have conversations that we didn't want to have or Yeah. Um challenge people who needed to be challenged that we weren't ready to do. It's changed how we lead or changed how we communicate with each other. Take me through this moment like you're going through.
Hey, what is a specific hard time that you guys came out on the other side better than ever? One of my favorite stories is uh very early on like we get that job that Dustin's talking about, like through the roof, feeling awesome immediately followed by extreme terror [laughter] like how we how are we going to deliver this project? and then figuring out what owning a business looks like. Like it's Sunday and I'm on my way to church with my grandma and Dustin calls and I drive back home and drop him off and I meet Dustin downtown. Dustin's doing the same thing. But after is it two or three years the pounding the table conversation had how far in?
It was it was it was 2019. No, just because you've been best friends for so long does not mean uh you know how to have mature conversations together or manage conflict. Yeah. And so he was doing such a good job selling. I was not keeping up operationally and he was showing me about how exciting these things are going to be on the backside. And the whole time he's talking getting more and more excited.
I'm getting more and more terrified of cuz I don't know how to actually make these things happen. And it's basically me and him and a couple guys who joined the team from a service standpoint. And like I pounded the table. I was like I don't want to do this anymore, man. like just there there's no playbook for how to do these things. And then you layer on like working with two of your best friends and these like doing life together.
Doing life together like knowing that you know marriages are are in this kids are in this. Yeah. It's real. It's real. Yeah. So that that to me we that changed we went from like level one to level two.
I think we're on like level 37 now of how to work through tough conversations. Yeah. But that was uh that was the first real one where like I actually had to look at him cuz I don't like conflict. I don't like to make people uncomfortable. So I'm I used to be a yes man in that way. I'm still I have this deep desire to show people that I can achieve things.
Yeah. That gets me in trouble sometimes. But that was the first time I had to come to him and be like, "You're the problem. I don't know how to uh [laughter] I don't know how to handle this, but I'm not enjoying what we're doing. Yeah, it was a it was a put the pin down moment and uh we're gonna have a different conversation than I thought we were going to have type of thing. Now, 6 hours later, he did admit that he does have feelings, which was maybe the thing that frustrated you the most that day.
Yeah. [laughter] Very uncomfortable. Oh gosh. Yeah. Now, here's the thing. roofing and just trades in general don't always get the most love for being a sexy industry to work in.
You talk about coming from finance, like the world of the suit and tie, wing tips, baby. Yeah, the suit, the tie, finance being sexy. Why is roofing sexy? Why is blue collar sexy and the right business that people should stop overlooking? If you look around even this place, like we roofed the pigota this winter, which is really cool. Oh, that's sick.
It's really cool. and and Alex Miller on our team has has uh has, you know, done an incredible job serving the speedway and Pat Garlock, Jonno, like that that team, they're they're they're awesome to work with, but you drive down the road and you pass, you know, building every 5 ft. Like somebody's got to take care of that, right? So, you know, while the math is different, like this stuff still exists and we're not in the build uh the business of tearing things down in this country, right? Like there's still a lot of time to uh uh and a lot of land to continue to build on. like you know you're you're you're bringing uh you know the Brit over to experience you know the US for the first time, Middle America for the first time, Indianapolis Motor Speedway and we even talk with him.
It's like it's enormous. There are buildings and there are buildings from the 1300s still standing in in England, you know, it's like the idea of tearing stuff down or having to like you can be a part of preservation. Yeah. We turned 250 this year, right? like 250 versus 1300, you [laughter] know, like that's crazy. Those places have been around for a long time.
For years, for years there have been people keeping those roofs dry. Exactly. Like we we we have one of the oldest professions. So that's how I you know find a lot of sophistication. Yeah. Absolutely.
In this industry, but no, it's a um you know, coming from finance uh one of the things that I recognized and and and trust me, great people in that space. Um, and and we worked really hard to serve the people that, you know, were our clients in that space. But it was in intangible. Like I'd find out if I did a great job by them 20 years from now. Yeah. And I came over here and and um, you know, the very first day that we we owned the company, we get a phone call from one of the pre-existing clients and uh, they had a leak and like one, you were asking like what did we get?
I had to call the previous owner and ask if we bought a a ladder. That's how strong our due diligence was. Do Do we own a ladder? Did Did we buy a ladder with a with a company? Um, but I jumped up there with the stuff from the storage unit and I'm pretty sure Dom gave me his personal ladder like from his house. Yeah, I had to go pick it up from his house.
Um, and I climbed up there and I got my phone out. Luckily, this was a very easy to find leak cuz that's a that's an art form, finding leaks on a roof. It's it's very difficult. It takes some time to learn that, but this is gash. Like somebody drug equipment across that roof and you know I uh I put it together and I felt you know that sense of pride of like tangibly doing something and I could see my work and I solved a problem. Yeah.
And I think I think that is the reward of the bluecollar trades like you get to see your work at the end of the day. Yeah. And every day that you you go to work in in the trades you know you want to work that though. Yeah. Absolutely man. Oh, I love it.
What do you think, Eric? Why is Blueco collar sexy? For me, it's the people. Like, they're so real. I uh It's always people. When I go to him, I don't go to these meetings anymore, but we would go to meetings with the banks or uh other people like that, and they would use acronyms that I didn't know.
Like, I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions. I love jargon. Tell me what those tell me what those words mean. But these like everybody's just real people, man. Like, everybody wants to work hard. Everybody's like as a general rule there's a faith element and things as a general rule people have strong families and things like that like it's a place and your work your word matters like it it does matter in all industries it does matter in the state of Indiana but I think specifically in the trades it really does matter if you look someone and say hey we're going to get this project done by XYZ date at XYZ budget you're going to go to bat to do it as well as you can and to fulfill your word no people are realistic Like there's times I hear people talk about software implementation or something else that's sexy and they're like and people just get so mad cuz the expectations are so high like here we'll have conversations.
We're talking to a Fortune 500 company and they have a very strict deadline and I was like we're going to try our best but our goal is to make guys not work Sunday and he said well obviously. Yep. He didn't say no you're going to work Sundays everything. and he said, "No, obviously like I can work with that." And as long as we're communicating with people about what's happening, they're usually very receptive. And the word partner is so gross cuz people get it gets manipulated and people overuse it.
But the the willingness of people to partner with us when we set good expectations with them is very refreshing. That is a piece too of setting realistic expectations and then shooting to overachieve. It turns out like we learned that we were in control of setting the expectation. Yeah. Right. Like we were we were the guys that were telling them our clients like this is what the experience is going to be.
And uh we realized in that process that we didn't have to overpromise, you know, and it's so easy to fall into that trap cuz you want to close the deal. You're like, we can get it done. Anything you want, we'll do. And it's like it's just going to make it all a bad experience if you continue to do that. He's helped me a ton uh and and helped Aaron as well in getting our language correct. I used to say, you know, when it was just the two of us inside the company, um you know, Eric keeps all the promises that I make.
Yep. Someone's got to someone's got to cash the checks you're that you write, right? Yeah. And he told me I had to strike that from my language, but before he did that, he's like, "You got to make better promises, man." Yeah. What did you tell them we're going to do?
[laughter] Wow. So I want I do want people to understand it and get a size and a scope of what the impact nine years of running towards your dream with your best friends can do. You go from buying a roofing company where you didn't know if you owned a ladder to now 9 years later. What's the impact that you're making not only across Indiana, not only across the Midwest, but around the country? The most important part of our impact has nothing to do with the roofing that we do. It's like the opportunities that our families get to do life together.
It's the opportunity like I get to work with my younger brother. Yeah. It was like one of my heroes. Like I used to joke he does everything that I do but better. Like he was I've since realized we are not the same but growing up you just like he's tagging around with me everywhere. I assume we're the same but better wrestler than me, better football player than me, better rugby player than me, better SAT scores, all the things.
Bigger, taller, stronger, more attractive. All the Yes. full of air. Sorry. The uh But that impact just seeing not just us getting to work someplace that doesn't suck, but every time we meet with somebody on our team, like they seem happy and they love what they do and that's amazing. Well, and I think I think what's important is like you know what you just said is our families and what you mean by that is everybody on the team.
Yeah. Right. It's not just us sitting here on this pod, but you know, we have we have a community of people that want to go chase a mission and a dream together. Yeah. Um and it wasn't easy building it. We've we've been in the foxhole together.
Um we've learned. Uh we've made mistakes. We've empowered people. We've watched guys grow up and um and and we get we get to watch their families grow up. you know, uh, you and I both have had two more kids since we, you know, started this whole thing. Aaron's had two more kids, but we've watched entire families get started, you know, doing this seamless dream and we've told everybody like this is a monster experiment and we're still learning.
Every time that we do something is the first time we've ever done it moving forward, it it's been a lot of fun to watch people subscribe and opt in on this thing. One thing you guys do an excellent job at is building a championship culture. And maybe it's from spending time in locker rooms. Maybe it's from reading books, but I want to know what is your advice to building a championship team culture at your company? I think part of the beauty of our differing skill sets is we all bring something different to the table. And I I don't know how to put to words what Aaron and Dustin do.
It seems like magic or voodoo to me. But for me, it's just like leading from the front. like you got to be for me showing people that I'm willing to do what we're asking them to do. Um and just trying to be excellent at all those things so that you show people where the bar is. Yeah. I I I think you know first it's it's seeing people rather than numbers, right?
You know, Eric also has always said like our people don't exist in your spreadsheet. Oh, when I would uh build a proforma or I'd build a you know uh a job cost tracker and I' I'd set expectations and he was like, "Hey, you know that guy wants to get home and have dinner with his wife and you know that guy's got a a a baseball game on Saturday morning. We're probably going to, you know, be 2 3 weeks longer than what you put in your spreadsheet." And and those those are great reminders. So, you know, we we we built something almost by accident, but we found it to be incredibly beneficial to us. Like in blue collar, everybody on the company's in, you know, on salary.
You know, there's some sort of bonus incentive structure above it. Yeah. We have no PTO policy. So, it means if you do not get PTO. Yes. Exactly.
You know, work every day. You know, we do have to remind some people to take time off. That is the danger of the uh we we track the lack of PTO. We tell people you got to leave. like tech companies kind of get you with that sometimes whereas if you get unlimited PTO but you end up taking less days than if you would have had 15 or 20 or whatever and Yale did a study on that you know and it's it's substantial about 10 years ago they they track the you know unlimited PTO policy so we actually track an accurate track it's more of a fuelbased thing where we ask the entire team like all right when was the last time you went on vacation anybody seamless is listening we're not big brothering you not at all just so they know um so so here's Here's my other question in regards to this and then we're going to kind of talk about uh a little bit regarding to the Speedway. You guys have some of the best people.
Maybe the best people besides our people, right? No, you guys have We'll go We'll go We'll go oneonone on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you guys have incredible people.
Great people. And from every experience I've had from I mean I'm not going to name drop them all. I am going to name drop my specific friends that I have multiple connections with was with Alex Miller and with Sam Comr like those two specifically. But then you also have Nate and your brother and the whole freaking crew are winners. And this is a roofing company. Like you have an MBA that's like running the spreadsheets that was working at Eli Liy that you convince to come join your team.
It's insane. Like how how do you attract how do you retain championship level talent? We we we cast a vision and we we set guards about like this is how we go to work and then we empower people. Um, like one of my favorite stories is uh um Jake Ble, one of the first projects that he ever ran. He's on the service team. I I went after him three or four times.
Um he finally said yes and came over and joined us. But he was running a project and and uh I just, you know, organically walking through the office saw him sitting at his desk and we're catching up and he, you know, was a little beat up, you know, kind of in that conversation. I was like, "What's going on, man?" and he mentioned that he, you know, had mis installed or the the the coping on that project had gone sideways. I was like, "All right, so what does it cost?" And it was, you know, a number, but it ultimately is 1% of the job and he was 10% ahead of schedule, right?
And he done everything the way that we'd always done it. Yeah. I was like, Jake, like, you're still 10% ahead of schedule against what we estimated. You're killing this job. You're doing an incredible job. client was incredibly pleased that, you know, he he took what looked bad off and restarted.
But I was like, you ultimately found something that didn't work, but we've always done it that way. Like, you got to bring this to the team so that, you know, nobody else makes this mistake. And it wasn't even his mistake. It was what he was trained in. Yeah. And um and I think that sort of empowerment and encouragement and um allowing people to be great, right?
like I'm awful at managing people, man. Like I don't want to. Um I don't do it well. So instead of that, like you know, this is what we're trying to accomplish and and we've got a ton of resources. We've had so many people come around us, you know, uh in the industry, outside the industry, and inform and speak into what we're trying to do. But giving access and allowing people to be themselves and go be great at what they do.
Yeah. Dustin's being humble. The real reason is Dustin's the best recruiter in the history of life and he might be the best storyteller ever. I mean, he recruited me and Aaron first of all. So, those are one and two, but the reason Miller's here is because of him. The reason Sam's here is cuz I mentioned that if we were going to have a CFO one day, I think it should be Sam.
And so, he recruited Sam. Everybody who's on the team was recruited by Dustin, including my brother. eyes just suggested he'd be good. Dustin is Let's go get him. He can convince [laughter] anybody that it's a good idea and when he's right, it's amazing. I think, you know, we we we grew up in athletics and that's kind of how we started this pod was, you know, there's a lot of background of our time on teams together.
Yeah. And uh I think anybody that's played a team sport remembers the best teams they were on. For me, it was never, you know, the most talented team. And it's not an insult. It just there's something about having, you know, the best players at every position where, you know, generally there's a not there's a lack of continuity. There's a lack of buy in.
You know, the best teams uh that we ever played on uh were teams made up of people that, you know, gave back to the team. they understood what role they were playing. They owned that role and they did it incredibly well. And I think that's that's really what we were trying to invite into this this again exercise or experiment that we call seamless is like can we invite people that are great individually as character, right? Work ethic and integrity was the baseline and uh and then give them the empowerment to go run their role incredibly well. I love it.
The final thing I want to talk about before we land the plane on all things Indiana is you guys as an upstart commercial roofing company decide to make what I had to assume was your largest marketing and sales expense at the time and you invest in a suite at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. And a lot of people know about the Speedway for having fun. It's a great time, the pageantry, the whole nine yards. But how why is the Indianapolis Motor Speedway a great place to do business? I don't know. It is.
I still don't understand the the magic that happens out here. When we first talked about getting a spoon, I thought it was the dumbest idea ever. You did really. I have uh Yes. What are we doing? But it is it it's arguably the best thing that we have done.
Why is having a suite at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway the best sales and marketing tool and decision that you guys have made? We grew up and we had people at, you know, the Colts or the Pacers or, you know, even Triple A baseball, you know, Indianapolis Indians, just great experience, right? Um, and you know, those places are are are wonderful. Unfortunately, in the backyard is the most unique venue in the world. And it doesn't take people that love racing. It doesn't take any idea of what this place might be.
Every time that we invite and get to share this place with somebody that hasn't been here before, it's a magical moment. Everybody has been absolutely blown away, speechless, and it's not it's not where we're at inside this place, right? That just becomes a room, right? And it gives us access to what this whole place is. Yeah. Um, I've watched guys cry looking at an empty, you know, racetrack, right?
And it's the order of magnitude is so different. And this isn't even race day. No. Like, we're not talking like you have to come out for, you obviously do have to come out for race day, but like you guys live out here. You have to you guys live out here for the month of May. And you're taking a lot of times people that are especially in blue collar, largely overlooked.
No one's inviting them out for, you know, beers at the track, steak dinner, like they're not, you know, being sought after in that way. But when you give someone who maybe grew up watching Indie, the Indy500 with their grandpa when they were a little kid, listen to it on the radio, you bring them out to the track to experience a day of work where they get to hang out here. That's powerful. Well, this place transcends industry. It transcends, you know, uh, what type of work you do or where you come from. This place is the ultimate place where everybody is, you know, a part of it.
And our goal was that we were going to create a place where there was no pretention. You know, I'm a big fan of extended timelines where we get to get past the Colts, the weather, and how old your kids are and talk about who you are, what you're about, what you want to accomplish, right? Yeah. And um you know every day you know because of this investment into you know this room here we get to do that with 80 people and if we put great people in the room and encourage them to talk to each other there's value creation. Yeah. Right.
I mean this is where I met you guys. Oh absolutely. Like Miller uh he shot me an invite. We had been we'd known each other and we're kind I wouldn't even say we were friends back then. We like knew each other from the same area and he said come out to the suite. I I need to introduce you to the guys.
And I was like, "Who are the guys?" The guys. And dude, it literally the best thing I ever did. Show up there, meet you guys, get to hang out, get to learn about you, your stories, your families, your people, the whole nine yards. It has been truthfully a life-changing relationship for me. For us, too, bro.
Like, I mean, we're all we're all chasing a dream here. And um and we don't know what the outcome's going to be, right? But what's available to us today is pretty neat. I love it, man. you know, and I think that uh I do from the operations side, I'd love to hear is a suite at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway a good business investment. 100%.
It's not a tool that comes with a manual. [laughter] I don't know that we've we've always used it correctly. So, uh Dustin and Aaron have done a great job of figuring out like what combination of people do you bring? Do you bring in organizations, individuals? How do you handle all that stuff? But Aaron and Dustin together have and Miller now, sorry.
They have uh they've figured out how to like maximize the use of that space and it's been pretty neat to see. Yeah. Well, and you don't have to be there. You get to go back to the office and crank, which is your happy space. The Lord, [laughter] I love it. I love it out here, but there's It doesn't scratch that itch of being productive.
Oh, yeah. You must be productive. I said, "Dude, hey, if the if anyone from IMS listens, I think that they should find me a space out here and I'll open up a co-working space for the month of May and get new new to indie type people in around the track. You can all like work. We'll have a little coffee bar." That would be a fire popup.
I don't even like racing, but there's something about hearing these cars go around the track. And to his point, like the majesty of this place, like Amen. Even for people like me who didn't grow up race fans, like it's it's special. I love it. All right, we're going to land this thing. We're going to talk all things Indiana for a little bit here.
The first thing I have to know, this is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at home is jcart. com. My question for you gentlemen, why do you call Indiana home? The memories, man.
Like this is where I grew up. This is where my people are. And it's the same thing with like business. Like I don't care what we did. I just wanted to work with people I want to work with. the same here.
Like we could live everywhere, anywhere, and we have, but like being close to my friends, being close to my family, like all the nostalgia, like everything, it's just can't live anywhere else. Grandma's been in the same place since 1957. You know, uh Brownsburg's home, northwest side, you know, coming here out to the track, 29th race. It's tough to, you know, replicate relationships that are 30 years old when you're 40. There it is. That's the line.
It's tough to replicate relationships that are 30 years old when you're 40. Wow. I love it, man. All right, this next question. This is your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana?
I used to tell people about Nate Spangle before Nate was Nate. I was like, "Dude, there's this guy. He's the only person I've met who rivals Aaron's optimism, enthusiasm, and all that stuff." Like I was like, Nate's going to do something. I don't know what it is. And one of the easy things that draw many people is wrestling, but there's there's been so much more past that.
Like just the de like you're just a good you're a good friend. You're a good business person. Like you have a great mind. I was like, you got to keep an eye on Nate. And now I tell people I'm going on Nate Spangles podcast. [laughter] Come on, boys.
We've arrived, bro. I don't know why we're here, but uh I any time to spend any time I can spend time with you is Hey, it's awesome. Appreciate you. No, that was sincere. He he told me he's like, I don't know when I'm going to answer that question cuz I used to just say, Nate, I might need I might need you guys to come on more often, like like once a month, and just hype me up a little bit. Come on.
Oh, we we'll encourage you from the background, man. Don't put us on camera very often. Mr. Dustin, what's your hidden gem in Indiana? You know, there there are some really good dudes that have been around our company for a long time that um that helped us take our intentionality about engaging our people and give it uh a framework and a structure. They've they've helped give us language and um you know, Brandon Fast and Matt Curts at Wayfinders, Matt's getting ready to start, you know, a a new nonprofit to bring peace back to the workplace.
Um, Brandon does an incredible job helping individuals and corporations find purpose in the work, find identity and and the giftings that they have. U, they've been they've been incredible for us. Um, and uh, Wayfinders uh, and and and Peace Works, those two guys are are doing incredible work. Gentlemen, it has been so much fun to get to hang out with you, man, to get to learn about Proud of you. I appreciate you guys. when I say you two have been such influential today I say friends but through a lot of the journey role models uh just mentors people that I've looked up to and like honestly in the in the journey of entrepreneurship the biggest step is taking the risk and doing it and betting on yourself and even if you don't figure it out the first one even like we've had countless entrepreneurs that have started something and it didn't work out and then they start their next thing and that's the home run.
Yeah. Go fail at something. Yeah. Go fail at something. Right. and I just appreciate you guys' friendship.
One thing that I totally respect and love and that everyone that listens to this episode can take away is your owner/cofounder dynamic with you two and Aaron is impeccable. And it's it maybe it wasn't at the beginning. Maybe it took and I'm sure it took lots and lots of work and trial and error and and at the end of the day like the way that you all work with each other, motivate each other, hold each other accountable, and go through not just work but also life is it's aspirational for a lot of us out here and I appreciate you guys. Thank you for being uh being a guest. It's crazy to think a year ago we sat here and now in the suite talking about, you know, building the podcast, the whole nine yards and now we're hosting a live show here. Can I give a quick shout out to our wives for uh part of the reason that we've worked through that dynamic you've just discussed at least for me is uh there was literally a moment when I got off the phone with Dustin and Jamie said you're going to call him back and apologize and I was like the hell I am and [laughter] then I thought about it and I called him back and I know Hillary's had my back, Jamie's had his back, Holly's had our backs.
Same like all around the circle doesn't work without them. It's uh it's carb day. It's 12:00 noon. I think it's time for the boys to go uh enjoy some race day festivities. I appreciate y'all. Uh go check out Seamless.
If you are in the commercial roofing space or you just want a great cup of coffee, hit up either of these guys. Hit up Alex Miller. He will get a cup of coffee with you and chat with you. Anything from from baseball to Seamless Roofing to Penrod Art Fair. He is just uh the master of a million talents. Shout out to the guys and we'll talk to you soon.
Thanks, man. Awesome. Thanks, man. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations [music] at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle.
Thank you [music] so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get