How Sahm's Built Indiana's Favorite Neighborhood Restaurants

All right. Well, here we go. It could turn into riots. It could turn into an ambulance hitting somebody. Like, oh boy, this could go south quickly. Talk about hitting a home run, half your barbecue.

You're a valued driven place. It's an everyday place. It's a community, right? If you don't think you can pull off $2 million and what are you doing right off the jump, you're going to be behind. You're going to already be losing money. Brings in all these ideas.

Was the company ready for that kind of change? And how did you navigate that? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hooser State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. This summer, I'm exploring Indiana from top to bottom in a Roman wrapped tundra. Before I hit the road, I make sure my truck is ready, and you should, too.

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Up to seven courts plus tax and shop supplies. Cannot be combined with other offers. See dealer for full details. Now, let's get into today's episode. My guest today is Eddie S. He is a second generation restaurant tour and one of the owners of S's Hospitality Group, a family-run Indiana business that has grown into a multilocation restaurant and catering company all across central Indiana.

He's helped expand the brand's footprint through concepts like Big Lug Canteen and Half Liter Barbecue, one of my favorites. All while continuing the legacy started by his father, Ed S. Sam's Hospitality Group now operates numerous restaurants and catering services emphasizing community involvement and locally rooted hospitality. I'm really excited to talk about growing a family business in the restaurant space spreading out to multiple locations, concepts growing while all maintaining this strong rooted community presence. Eddie, welcome to the show, man. Hey, man.

I I love the show. I really do. I I a lot of guests I really like. So, I'm happy to be here. Dude, I am pumped for this one because I'm a big fan of your work. You talk about half liter barbecue is the spot that I take everyone.

Like my friends from back home, I'm from a small town in Northern Indiana. They come to town and they're like, "Okay, let's go get dinner. You got to go. Summer/spring day on the the patio out there. It's such a vibe. Like total vibe.

It's uh I I would be taking too much credit if I said I saw it being that big, but it is it is really nice that uh it is it is blown up into something where everyone feels just like natural there on a nice day, you know?" Oh, yeah. I mean, there's two locations I feel like people flock to on a beautiful day in in Indianapolis. One, Rascaler. Sure. Like, you can't be, you know, that's just a whole vibe itself, too.

But if you're up in this area, dude, patio beers at Half Liter right on the Mon. Yeah, man. Bury me there. Yeah. There's, you know, I feel like Broad has a few spots that do really well at it. And I always thought there was like a a der of places that did it.

And so, when the opportunity came up, we've always tried to be Monon adjacent, and it's been good. So, yeah. But it all didn't start there. It didn't start at a hot spot in Sro right on the Monan Trail. The whole thing starts at the corner of Keystone and 65th. Right.

Well, the original one for me it does. The original Psalms is is in Fiser, so 1986. You know, we're actually celebrating 40 years this year. No way. Yeah. My my dad uh he likes to say we this is our 40th year of not making top 40 lists.

And 40 not top 40. Yeah. uh you know, because we've always just been that kind of, you know, good place, great value, uh not flashy, but yeah. So, for me, my my venture started at at S's uh uh place on 65th in Keystone. Okay. I want to go back to the beginning then.

Let's talk about your dad, Ed. He starts with one restaurant up in Fisers in what year? 1986. 1986. The year before I was born. Was he a Did he grow up in the restaurant business?

No. So his his uh grandpa was a farmer and then his dad was the head of the CIO in Indianapolis like a very wellto-do guy. Spoke uh or he taught speech at Marian. He was just kind of like everyone has a story about Will Wills, Bill S. Um and so no, but he worked in restaurants growing up. So he went to Harry's Chocolate Shop at Purdue and and worked there alongside Hershel.

He worked at Ground Round, which uh I think you know some of the older listeners would remember. Uh and and he met Mike Cunningham there and and him and Cunningham opened up Psalms. Uh, Cunningham was his original GM. So, wait, hold on. Mike Cunningham was, what was it called? S Yeah, Sam's Restaurant and Bar.

Mike Cunningham of Cunningham Restaurant Group was the original general manager of S's Restaurant and Bar. And Ed was Yeah. the owner. They were They were buds. Still are buds. This is your dad?

Mhm. I did not know that. Chris Elely was the dishwasher of Smoking Goose. No way. Yeah. There you go.

It's a tree. Little tree. Wait, the coaching tree. Yeah. Yeah, like your dad's kind of like the Andy Reid of uh restaurant tours in Indiana. That's nuts.

And Mike and him were peers, you know, they worked together and I think that was their idea. They opened a lot of restaurants together and clearly Mike has an insane career on his own and and a wonderful business. So, uh just really two unique guys who just Yeah. randomly they they went in together. So, 1986 they you guys all start they all start the first restaurant and bar up in Fischers. Where was the location?

116th in Allisonville. and and to the north there's there's pictures literal corn fields and like cows. It was like a gravel road. I mean, now you think of Fischers and it's it's anything but. But yeah, it was uh that's where I grew up. I was born uh uh and lived in a house right across the street and we moved to Berkeley uh Grove right down the way.

Uh and then yeah, so Fischers was my hometown for a long time until, you know, I was probably in like third or fourth grade. Okay. So when did it expand from one location and it start to grow? Well, Ed and Mike opened up probably like 20 restaurants together. They had a a a yogurt chain called The Big Chill. Uh, and it was like a bunch of yogurt shops and things like that.

They opened up different restaurants together over the years. And then from there, Ed opened up, they kind, you know, they did their own things and and Sam's Place was one of the first few, the Roost Breakfast at 116th in Allisonville. We have one here in Nora now. Uh, he had a restaurant called Mama Sams. was a a Chinese style restaurant which is wild. Uh so he did a lot of things.

So there was kind of a a number of them but now uh like S's place was really the first one that kind of like has become a staple you know it's been open for 26 years now a staple in that community which has always had an interesting location cuz it's like this is back you talk about being open 26 years so open in 2000. the shopping mall like drivable place was so popular then and today it's all about like the walkability type spots, you know, like the other concepts I feel like you guys have are not necessarily the like drive park. They're more like the neighborhood spots, you know? It's it's grown for sure. It definitely shows that it is like such a staple in the community that it stood the test of time for 26 years. Yeah.

And it's, you know, there's so many schools around that area. I I think it's just a it's a great example of somewhere that maybe doesn't get the same limelight as other places. It doesn't feel spectacular, but it's a bunch of great families who live over there. They're going to school. They're grow they're raising their kids. So, Sans Place has survived on just people who, you know, loved their neighborhood and lived there for years and years.

So, so your dad is operating one restaurant, some yogurt chains, and like where do you feel like the business starts to hit its stride, especially enough for you to be like, "Hey, I'm gonna come and hitch my wagon, too. you know, the family business. I mean, Ed's a a serial entrepreneur. I mean, he's just he he is very creative and he's opened up so many different things. He's a numbers wiz. He's a photographic memory.

So, he's just one of those guys who naturally is doing more things, always doing things. So, when I was, you know, like 17, you know, 16, that's when, you know, SS was kind of known like we had four or five locations. Any any correlation to the golf course? So, it's named after my grandpa. No way. Yeah.

But you guys aren't like operating or you are operating it? No, we do not operate at all. It's city city city run a municipal you municipal court. Uh, of course I've always tried to get on there with my ID back when I was like 13 14. I'd show up and be like, "Well, I'm Eddie S." You know, and they'd be like, "That's, you know, $18, please."

Uh, doesn't that All right, fine. For you, $17. Yeah, 17. No, you got a free hot dog. Uh, no, it's just named after him. He did a lot for the city parks and and very instrumental in in keeping public land public and uh just being an overall great public servant.

So, it was named William Son Park and we have nothing to do with it, but I play there a lot. I love it. Uh, he he died before I was born, so I never got to know him, but But I mean, how cool is that for you? It's after your grandpa, correct? How cool is it for you to have I mean, big shoes to fill, you know, like you see this monster shadow cast of a guy that was just like the head of the CIO and, you know, a local just like legend. Yeah, absolutely.

Like that's pretty cool, I would say. Yeah. I mean, daunting in the sense of he had nine kids. Uh, all nine kids were successful in their own right. Uh, great athletes, college, you know, college athletes won state championships at their high schools. Uh, so when I came up, uh, I was this just short little pudgy kid and it was like I'm not sure if I'm going to carry on the SM legacy or not.

Uh, but no, you it's it's we're such a big unique family in that way. Like like there's very few people if you said your last name Psalm that they're not going to know someone uh that you know, a Psalm has been a part of their life. in some way. So, it's unique in that way that like it's just nice to hear people's stories and people feel very natural around me. I I think people tell me a lot of things they maybe wouldn't tell other people just cuz like they they feel comfortable around me cuz they knew my aunt or you know my aunt's kid or this or that and which is cool. I I don't take that for granted.

I love that people do it. So, big shoes to fill for sure. Amen. So, Ed starts a ton of stuff. You're talking about yogurt shops, restaurants, the Roost, and things I mean seem to be going decently because do you graduate from school and then immediately join the family business or do you go out and like work in the industry for? Yeah.

So, when I was about 17, I I knew that I had an itch to be in the restaurants. I worked in the restaurants, you know, uh I was cooking on lines at SS. I was, you know, peeling potatoes, doing catering jobs, expediting, you know, you name it. I was very much that like restaurant kid. specifically in the Sams place at 65th in Keystone. Yeah.

And a little bit at 116th in Allisonville. Uh we had SS Bar and Grill on 96 in HEG. And so I was doing whatever I was really needed. I I was the boss's son. If if Ed said jump, you know, I said how high. And then, you know, around 17, I realized that I was good at it.

You know, I liked doing it. And and the peers I had in the kitchen who were older than me, I felt like I could keep up. And uh and from there, I realized that if I was going to get better, I needed to grow. So then, you know, I I started working at other restaurants and and expanding my footprint. Did you go to college? I did.

So I went to Purdue and and studied uh hospitality tourism management. Yeah. You know, right out of college, it was like, "All right, I'm going to go to the best." And at that time, Purdue was number one. Uh hovered around number one. I wasn't smart enough to get into Cornell, so uh didn't even apply.

It wasn't worth it. But like it was, you know, between Michigan State, UNLV, and and Purdue, which were kind of like the three in the top five at the time. So I went to Purdue. Uh it was Family Legacy. I I also am just like a diehard Boiler fan, but uh that's Yeah, I graduated from hospitality tourism management with a focus in uh food safety and nutrition. Hey, there we go.

And you decided to go out and get experience then? Yeah, I was working for the the stadium there. Uh I was the the sue chef at the stadium. Rosade was doing, you know, Yeah. I was I was waking up at 5:00 a. m.

to to do uh uh uh orders. And say what and what time frame is this in for there? It was my junior and senior year in college. How what what uh what years? Oh. Uh, 2008 and 2009.

Okay. So, you're just past like the the Drew Brees era of like the golden days of Purdue football. I got to Purdue and they were ranked number 11 in the country my freshman year. They had all 11 uh uh defenders returning and they were terrible and then and then they've been terrible. We had a blip with Braum that was nice. Uh and and basketball clearly has been amazing.

I actually got to when I worked for the stadium, I got to meet a lot of the guys uh um and some, you know, Chris Kramer and some of those guys were always great and and it was it was nice to be a part of all of it in whatever way I could. So, yeah, absolutely. So, you're working in the stadium there and then when you graduate, do you continue to work there? During my summers, I would go intern. So, like I I worked for Steve Oakley at Oakley's Beastro. Uh I worked at a restaurant there called Maze.

Uh both kind of higher end just to, you know, learn a little bit more about food and and see what that looked like cuz, you know, SS wasn't that. and I and I was interested in it. Uh so yeah, I did that in the summer. Interject for a second. Yeah. I have a question.

Internship in the food and hospitality space. I feel like a lot of people get summer jobs. Mhm. At a restaurant, you know, like they come back in the summers and they're going to go wait tables or be a hostess or whatever at, you know, a restaurant. How do you clarify and determine? And like I feel like some people would just like start in the restaurant business and try to work your way up versus going to school and making it more a little bit more formal, you know, like what's how do people maybe kids that like, oh, I want to be in the restaurant biz, but they was like, I get a job at, you know, I I get a job at Half Liter and you're the hostess.

HTM was great for that reason at Purdue. Like they they very much pushed you to try new things. They they wanted you to explore what internships looked like cuz, you know, you're right, most of these are just summer gigs. you're a host or you know you you you pick up hours here and there to make a little money to buy beer the next year at college or whatever but you know we we had to like turn in you know weekly reports to our our you know counselor make sure we were saying what we were doing and and honestly I thought if I went to Psalms I'd just be cheating the system it's like I wouldn't really be doing the stuff I was told to do. I do whatever they needed me to do. Uh so I took it seriously and uh I you know my advice to people I talked to some classrooms and I I'll speak to students and just tell them like most restaurants if you offer your services and you actually care like you're you're into it they'll they'll hire you.

It's like a guarantee, right? I mean like we all restaurants are looking for passionate people almost at at 24/7. So, you know, for me, I think those people I worked for like like Steve at Oakley's Beastro, uh, I mean, I don't think he looked at me as a lifer, but I think he looked at someone who was really interested in doing it. And I'd show up. I was I'd do the hard work. I'd clean the drains.

I'd take catering jobs. I'd expo on a Friday night. So, being available, and actually being interested in learning is the the key thing. How would you recommend employees in the hospitality space differentiate themselves as like, hey, I want to build a career versus this is a job that I get paid for? You know, I think it's about advancing kind of your skill set, you know, and sharpening the knives that might come with hospitality. So, you know, for me, it depends on what are you doing and how do you want to round out, you know, there's there's plenty of people who are amazing servers and that's all they want to do.

That's fine. But if you want to own restaurants, you have to be an amazing server. You have to also be an amazing dishwasher. You have to also be, you know, an amazing cleaner. You have to you have to know how to contact vendors. You have to be a networker.

So, I think really it's about saying what you're struggling with or what you want to get better at. And and what opportunities do I have to do that? And the thing about restaurants is it's time. I mean, restaurants open every day. They they serve customers every day. Each day is a new chance to entertain.

And I think people, if you're going to do it, you have to be available. That's the hard part is like to come in and say you want to work 10 hours here or there. You know, in restaurants, it's those young people trying to grow their careers. be available, say what you want to learn, give a give a time period, and as you round out, you'll probably find a landing spot somewhere in that company if you have enough, you know, uh, sharpened knives and the skill set. I love it, man. Okay, so you're out there sharpening your knives.

You're working you're working at the time you're working at Oakley's Beastro in the summer. Then you, you know, you come back, you worked at a couple other places. Yeah. So, in Lafayette, I worked at Maze and then, uh, I worked at the stadium and then I got a So, then I was like, well, I'm good with food. I know kitchens really well. I had done some service in SS, you know, but I by no means was like a great server.

Uh, and so I started bartending at a bar called The Pub and uh, which was owned by the guys that owned Harry's Chocolate Shop, uh, Hersel and Mary. And I started bartending there and I loved it. I fell in love with just front of house hospitality and and like this kind of small town vibe bar. I just fell in love with it. So that got me really into the, you know, not only the drink making side of it, but really just like the talking to people, learning their stories, how do they add value to your brand? you know, I started to really dig that.

So, that was the one that I think opened my eyes to more service instead of just cooking. I love being a bartender. It was so it was so fun. Especially if you're chatty like but you're also socially aware like both. You have to have both where it's like you're going to give a good conversation for like one or two minutes if it's like the doors open and if people want to just like chill and do their own thing, you like don't bug them. Yeah.

Perceptually aware. You have to be aware. I mean, there's so many people I have, they're social and they're great, but they just can't pick up on a clue of like, "Hey, man, that table kind of seemed, you know, irritated with me." Yeah, you you talked for 25 straight minutes. Like, I know that that seems good at the moment, but have some perceptual awareness to move on to the next table and do the next thing, but yeah, I I if you love that type of thing, if you love interacting with people, man, there's very few jobs that get to do it more than bartenders. And bartenders are even better.

So, I got to bartend at the old Triton Tap here. Absolutely. I was a beer tender with chef with chef chef. Chef Chev. So you was my my first boss. Uh like my first like real internship was with Triton.

I would Dude, this is a crazy story I've never told on the podcast. So I was a sales intern but it was unpaid. They're like we don't have any money. Like Depal kind of paid for my housing for the summer. Okay. So like Depal was like go there learn about sales in the beer industry.

I'm a junior. I just turned 21. I'm like, "Hell yeah, brother. Let's go." Broadripple strips of beer. My accounts were it was all of Broadripple.

So, I would take off at like, you know, 10 or 11 a. m. on a Tuesday with my little cooler full of rail spplitter. And I'd be like, and it's like you go and sample and you obviously drinking. You're not going to make them drink totally by themselves. Maybe like the seasoned experts, you know, if if you have a longevity.

I'm a college junior rising senior. I'm like, "Oh, yeah. I'll drink with you." Yeah. Come on. So I'm like half a rail splitter at Kilroy, half a rail splitter at BRT, OPT, Kilroy at the or no all the way around the street.

Yeah. Go to Lobster. By the time I got to Connor's, I'm like I'm blacked out and I had to have my my roommate has to come pick me. But at least you're close by, right? I mean, actually, but I'm like definitely I could not op I had to leave my car there several times. Yeah.

Well, that was in the days of like 7 to 8% IPAs and like you know and then but I got to, you know, two or three nights a week to make some extra money. I would be behind the bar in the tap room that was here. Yeah, man. It's great. I love that bar, dude. It's such a vibe.

And then you get locals and regulars that that's where you can start to really have your 20-minute conversations cuz they're like they're not just there like they're coming back to they're sparking conversation and they want to hang out with you. You get to know each it becomes more conversational versus like matterof fact. You first meet someone it's very matterof fact. Yeah. There's this conversation like you actually are like friends with this person. Yeah.

Part of your story. So great. Okay. So you start bartending at the pub in Lafayette and you're again sharpening the knives, getting your front of house down. Um what ends up bringing you back to Indie. So basically I had an offer to go work in Darden.

Uh uh Darden owns a bunch of restaurants across the country and they had a concept called smoky bones and uh h one of the cool things about htm at Purdue was they had a great recruiting uh uh network where you know they would come in and recruit students who are really into this stuff and so uh you know I had okay grades but I was very active in internships. I I worked at the cafe for Purdue. Like I knew all the cooks. And so, you know, uh uh Darden was going to have me go to to potentially go to Smoky Bones, which was this like barbecue concept. Uh and and and be on the GM track, right? Like learn the man.

You'd go there's different layers that you would go through, but you know, essentially, you know, hey, in five to six years, you'll be on a GM track to run a restaurant and, you know, move potentially move across the country and do those things. Um and Darden was like Red Lobster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Smoky was there.

There's a bunch of them. There's like, you know, 10 to 15 brands that they own and those companies kind of sell and and pick up brands every once in a while. Uh, but huge. I mean, like, you know, billiondoll companies. Yeah. Like, and that was probably at the tail end of the like every chain was like the hottest thing to do.

Oh, yeah. Chains are big. Like, you know, you have to go to Olive Garden or you have like it was so cool. And like locally owned spots were kind of like I think a little dull at that moment. People saw them as like Yeah. Yeah.

No, I agree. I I think they were more ahead of like most like you know chain like local chain restaurants. I think social media probably really helped local chain restaurants like pick up on trends and know what was being able to adjust faster. At least that's how I felt. Um but yeah, so Darden was kind of like the path I was going to be on. And then you know my father had always kind of been like don't don't go into hospitality.

don't like and not as like a this thing st you I hate this but I think he understood the like the silver spoon situation I'd be in like oh your dad owns restaurants so I know how you did this so I think he was kind of looking out for me but he ended up having an opportunity where Sam's place was looking for someone to buy it he was he was kind of doing this franchisee thing and he said if you're interested you know you can go get a loan you can probably get an SBA loan they were kind of handing them out in 2009 uh and so you can go get a loan and buy Sam's place from me if you want a chance to run it. I I'll sell it to you cheap. You know, you can take it and and try to run with it. So, I I went and got a loan and we we bought uh S's play. I bought S's place outright by myself uh and ran that for a number of years. How old were you?

Uh I was 23 years old. Yeah. What did you did you have to like put up collateral? Uh, no, no. The the the SBA loan I had uh seven years to pay it. No, I had 10 years to pay it back and uh I I put I had money saved up.

So, I I had some money uh cuz I wanted to buy a house. Instead of buying a house right away, I did that. Uh and you know, really it wasn't like successful day one. I had to build it back up. It you know, we were we weren't like struggling, but I I think Ed was at that point where he had raised kids. He had been doing it for you know, 25 years.

And I think he was looking for people who could add some ideas. And so when I got into S's place, right away I kind of just did my own thing. He didn't get in my way and I started doing craft beer. I had an obsession with craft beer and uh and really just new things like just like artisal things. So we started doing like a craft beer program. I started changing the specials.

We started doing sliders and happy hour stuff. And uh you know before you knew it, we were kind of like a popping bar within like a year. And so yeah, we built it up from that. And then uh eventually I sold it back into the company. But you know Oh, okay. Wait, talk me through that process.

So you buy it, you build it up and then like all the time Ed is running like kind of the franchisee kind of like other he had his other concepts. What were the other concepts? Yeah, Sam's Bar and Grill, S's Restaurant and Bar. We had a a a bar downtown called S's Tavern. Um we had a bar in Pendleton. Um and then we had The Roost.

Um so and then catering. We had a catering company. So he kind of was he was still very busy, not retired at all, but like he was still he ran all that. And Sam's place was just kind of this island. Like I I just that was my thing, you know, and so I'd get some people who didn't love it, you know, like, well, I've been Som since 1986. And be like, well, yeah, this isn't that, you know, it's it's SS, but it's my version of it.

This is how I want to cook. This is how I want to make it. And I mean, if you walk in even today, again, I don't know. When did you end up selling it back into the biz? 2016. Okay.

So, I mean, I' I've been in the neighborhood. I live over by it. I love it. since I've been over there since 2019. Like the menu is not what you would expect. No.

Like there is like legitimate the best place to get dinner. Like you go in there for actual you're getting like the uh what is like the chicken breast and caper the lemon. Yeah. The Mediterranean. Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm like the portions are huge. It's like real food. Not saying that other places don't have real food, but it's great value. I I I just look at it as for what you're getting, it's the best value I can give you. I could go more expensive. if I could go more rare ingredients or whatever, but I'm I'm just trying to walk the line of like creative and and value as much as I can.

So, you take that over, you buy it. You're 23. You have an SBA loan that you you know comes due in 10 years. You got to get all that paid back. Like, what did life look like for you as a 23-year-old owning a restaurant? I won't say bleak.

I loved it. I had I had the time of my life, but if you if I'm when I say this story to other people, it always sounds bad. I I I worked all the time, you know. I I worked uh 100 hours a week and and I don't mean that uh in hyperbole. I just worked all the time and uh but I also I was also obsessed with it and I think that's what made it work was I I loved the the people that worked for me and uh we had a lot of fun. Um I loved the customers and and I kind of got lucky cuz we were building it.

It had gone down so low that like I was introducing new people to it all the time. It let me be unique and and try new things. Um, so early on, man, it was just a grind. Yeah. Um, and and obsessed with the grind, you know, very much so. Uh, and so yeah, it was just constant work.

What change did you make that the the regulars, like the old school crew was like pissed about? Um, you know, I stopped doing domestic beer on draft other than Miller Light. You know, we we went we had uh 16 taps and well, originally we had three and then I started putting in, you know, more tap systems and and adding in and so we, you know, not to say we were the original Craft Beer Bar. We weren't, but I do think there was a time period where Son's place was, if not the best craft beer bar, one of the top three or four in the city. And uh we got really lucky cuz that's kind of when it all started hitting hard and uh all them would be pissed. Where's Bud Light?

Where's you know where how come we don't carry MGD? Where's Kors? And I'd be like, man, I got Miller Light on tap. That's the only thing I'm going to carry. And there's no reason for it other than that was the cheapest at the time that I put it on and now everyone knows it. So that was the first thing.

And then, you know, I stopped carrying so many vodkas. I I just hated carrying, you know, 18 brands of vodka. I I I started just streamlining what I did so I could spend less time inventorying, less time teaching people, you know, what the difference between Stolie and, you know, Belvadier was. It was like, "No, we we sell Titos and we sell Titos and we sell the cheapest vodka." So, like for me, it was like these old school people were like, "Well, I can't drink Belvadier. I'm never coming back."

And I just be like, "All right, well, I guess you're never coming back." Like, I'm not trying to make you mad, but like if you can't if that's your reason for not coming to a restaurant, then you know, you kind of have to move on. But we started doing nicer, we had more time, so we started doing nicer cocktails. We started having better service. We started spending more time getting to know our customers, started doing, you know, our own trivia nights. We started doing, you know, beer dinners.

And we just had more time to do the things we loved versus counting stuff and, you know, constantly moving stuff. So, it just I I think it lightened the load and let us have more clarity. And so, that was the stuff that they got mad at early on. Yeah. How were you measuring success? Like how did you know that you were on the right track with everything you were doing?

I mean a P&L. Yeah. Right. Like okay. So like relatively how did it look when you took it over and like generalizing a couple years later you end up selling it back? Yeah.

The first year we grew about 20%. Which was huge. And then uh the second year we were open uh we started seeing you know some crazy bar jumps. You know food kind of stabilized but we were seeing like 50% bar jumps. By year three, we were out performing basically everybody in the company. You know, all the other SS were looking to me like, "What are you doing?"

Like, "Have Well, and it was just craft beer." I mean, no. And just like, you know, putting on events and having fun and, you know, we did a we did a party in 2020 2012. It was called the random parking lot party in July. And I just hired local bands. We just did stuff out in the parking lot.

And I I we had two potholes, so I filled them up with water and put rubber duckies in them. And, you know, we did we just did it was like whatever. What else are we going to do in July? It's It's hot as [ __ ] outside. Let's just have a party. But I would do that stuff all the time.

I just whatever. I I live here. And you're like 25 and you live four blocks away. You're like, you're vibing. My best buds are like getting their law degrees and and and you know, trying to find their footing in their careers and this is like where we have a good time and where we, you know, we all kind of, you know, hang out. So, we just started building a community of people who were like, "Oh, this is real, you know, this is like fun, you know, and there's no pretense to it.

You're not ripping me off, you know. It's like, yeah, it's just good people and we're having a good time. you're welcome to you're welcome to join if you want. So, we just we had a community and and I think from that, you know, you learn a lot of lessons about what makes restaurants actually work and uh it was just real. It was it was val there was good value. We were community first, you know, and and um yeah, we got lucky.

I mean, a lot of it's just the the you know, the craft beer was lucky, the timing of that, but community first atmosphere and yeah, we just kept growing it. Okay. So, you keep growing it and you eventually then sell it back into the company, you know, start to climb up the ranks in the family biz. Yeah. And was a little bit about it like did you feel as though you had something to prove and you had to earn some respect like you know you talk about the silver spoon type thing you don't want I mean just again from our 40 minutes or whatever of hanging out it's like it seems though you wouldn't want people to think like oh just because of your last name you are now you know you get special privilege. Yeah I for sure that that was always in my head.

I mean I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. I I just tried to outwork everybody you know constantly. And um I probably failed a lot of times, but I think what I ended up doing was surrounding myself with a lot of people who just tried to outwork each, you know, we just worked. I mean, that's what we cared about. We wanted to do the work. Um so yeah, for me that the silver spoon was always I didn't want to be looked at.

I wanted people to think that I had earned it. And I wanted for myself to feel like, you know, if I was ever going to grow in this industry and and really do it, that I had to have the the sure footing that I had done the work. Yeah. And I and I do I think that I think to this day Ed part of the reason Ed said don't get into hospitality and kind of gave me those life lessons. He helped get me down this path of I earned it. You know, I tried really hard and and I learned the things I needed to learn.

I got challenged by, you know, I've had to fire staff. I've had good people quit because they didn't have they weren't making enough money. All those things that happened, I got to experience those versus having somebody else solve all my problems. So, yeah, when I sold it back to the company, um I just I was ready to do bigger things and I was going to need the capital. Uh and and at that point, Ed's network needed someone like me. Uh you know, that company needed me to come in and help kind of inject it with new ideas.

And uh I think we were ready to be business partners, you know, versus a dad and his son. And you know, and we're good. We're I you tell people we're the type of guys where even at Christmas, we talk about restaurants. You know, we'll be sitting down at, you know, Thanksgiving and and I'm talking about this new idea I have, you know, for a for a restaurant or hey, here's what I think we can do in Garfield Park. And, you know, we just talk restaurants cuz we love it. And then as business partners, we have very similar ideals now just cuz we've we've kind of grown up in the same atmosphere.

You mean just like when you took over Sam's Place. No one's that receptive to change right away. Yeah. So you sell back your restaurant into the company and then you come in as a partner in the company. Mhm. and you're like, "Yeah, they needed my fresh ideas and a little bit of like how hard was that where it's like, oh, Young Hot Shot here is coming in like turns around one restaurant or like you know, grows this one restaurant and then brings in all these ideas."

Like, was was the company ready for that kind of change and how did you navigate that? Yeah, some some were and some weren't and and you know, I got lucky. My sister is our director of operations and and she's awesome and and u so her and I challenge each other a lot but man she she works as hard as I do and she cares as much. So we we're lucky enough that we're familyowned like you know like it's me it's it's Ed Sam and it's my sister Adrian. So for us three you know it's easy or to get our ideas across cuz basically everyone our company was hired by us or brought up by us. So but if you get in an argument or a fight or something you still got to see him at Thanksgiving.

Oh yeah. No for sure. my my CEO, uh, Leah, she's she's awesome, too. She is kind of the moderator of all of us where she'll be like, "You guys can't talk to each other like that. You got to stop yelling at your sister." I'm like, "No, I get it.

I know. I'm sorry." That's interesting. Wait, so you have a CEO that is outside of the family that kind of operates as the CEO, even though it's a family-owned business. Yeah, I have a boss. Uh, where did that come in?

Um, you know, to be the CEO. So our company now is is 12 restaurants about to be 13 here in a few weeks when we open in Garfield and then uh we just we just announced that we took over all the food and beverage at Rivy. So we're working alongside the Rivy team and save the Rivy doing Yeah. doing all their food and beverage. We're we're excited to do that. So, uh, to to operate at a high level, we had to have somebody who thinks that way cuz being a CEO is is is very different than running a restaurant and and and being a, you know, visually trying to see how big this company could be or where we can grow, how we can get in touch with the community.

So, we saw a a CEO being crucial uh to our survival that wasn't just my dad, myself, or my sister, but somebody who could kind of keep us looking forward and not let nostalgia, you know, cloud our view. Wow. Okay. I'm excited to get into that as we get to that part of the journey. But you come in, this would have been 2016. Yeah.

I opened up Big Lug. We started opening Big Lug in 2015. So that's when all that started. We we were getting the funding for Big Lug. Uh we took over the Snoody Fox. We ended up tearing it down.

So that's when we kind of started realigning the company. We sold, you know, we sold back in. Uh and now I'm part of the company. I'm part of, you know, hospitality group. And the first big initiative was to open Big Lug. Yeah.

To open Big Lug. I I just was looking at all my beer sales across the company, you know, as I was doing craft beer everywhere and and not really like a hey, I could do this myself and make all this money, but you know, hey man, that's a lot of creative opportunity, you know, if for me to have tabs like that. What kind of beer do I want to make? What kind of you know, what kind of people do I want to hire? Well, having a brewer felt natural. Having somebody who could, you know, we made bread, we made all our recipes from scratch.

You know, all this stuff we already did by hand. So, why not have somebody add to that that vision? So we hired a brewer um Scott Ellis and um we just kind of started going. So yeah, that was 2015 and opened in 2016 and we had huge fanfare. I mean it was pretty big from the beginning. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden you can start not just opening restaurants and making money that way. You can start selling your beer other places. Yeah. Selling beer other places. I mean honestly just most breweries would tell you they have success if they have about 200 taps. Like two if you have 200 taps around the state, you know, that's you're doing pretty well.

I mean, I have 200 tabs in my own restaurants, you know, that I fully control. I control the price point. I control what we sell. I control how much we make. I can see how much we have in inventory. So, I my beer is always extremely fresh.

So, those are things that, you know, I wanted more control over cuz I felt like I was going to end up getting the best possible product to the customer. Well, what do you say when other entrepreneurs think about like the shiny object syndrome where it's like you're you're restaurant people like, you know, you have to shift focus and start to figure out how to do a brewery while also, you know, growing a restaurant group. Like I think that sometimes it works and other times people like get distracted by too many other things. Yeah. I mean, a lot of that's owed to Ed's ingenuity as an entrepreneur. He he can just see things in a big way and how to piece them together.

I think my uh interest in it and my networking I had done like you know knowing guys like Chev and just everyone across the city uh allowed me to kind of have the shore footing to get started. Um we've always hired people who were better at it than us. You know Scott was an amazing brewer and understood the process you know and so from that it was two of us who could really make that happen but the shiny object syndrome is very real. I mean I could and believe me I I I'm trying you know I've been trying to open a restaurant in Broadble for a long time. Uh, and it kind of gets my attention every once in a while, but uh, uh, the brewery felt natural because we already lived in those margins, you know, like we're already buying beer from, you know, Miller and already buying beer from brew pubs. So, and it's kind of like becoming like a little more vertically integrated.

Exactly. Think around that. You know, I a lot I tell people all the time the the the restaurants are hard to run because you lose so much money in the margins, right? Like when you think about your food cost and your labor cost and your rent percentage to your revenue and there's just always money kind of bleeding away and then at the end of the day there's none left. That's what it does seem like. Everyone in the restaurant business talks about how razor thin the margins are but like I look around at restaurants I'm like well there's people always coming through the door like you know like good restaurants always have people.

Yeah. And it's like where does the money all go? Yeah. And the health of the restaurant is turning those customers that come in into profit because there's restaurants who are packed but they they lose money on those customers. So then you get into this toxic situation where the busier you are potentially the more money you're losing. You know if you don't control your food cost, you don't control your waste, you don't control you don't have good rent, you get in over your head.

Like those are things that exist. And um you know for us living in those margins and figuring out how we can get as most the mo like with beer, I don't want to give Miller Light $110. I have no interest in giving them $110 for that keg. It cost me, you know, to make a keg of goat ranch. Half that, maybe maybe less. You know, if I and I'm it's a higher quality product in my opinion when it comes to the actual ingredients like local malt using hops from here in the Midwest.

You know, I'm paying a brewer on my team, someone who lives here in the city. Like, those are things where I could do that and I already see the margin. Why not just get in there and make it a better value for our guests? Yeah. Like the easy thing to do is just keep $810 and get a million white cake. Yeah.

The easy thing to do for sure. Yeah. E, but then when you talk about what makes it all work is like, you know, also diversifying to catering, like making sure that, you know, it's not just the restaurant isn't just these four walls. It's like being able to share that out into cuz I feel like that's where a lot of restaurants can can do very well to like, you know, help offset whether it be rent costs or like the footprint that you have to have prime real estate right up against the Monan. There's so much thinking that goes into a quality restaurant that if you don't set yourself up for success, you're going to run out of time to get into all those nooks and crannies. You know, for us, like we always we never will sign a bad lease.

There's just there's we'll just say no. That to me is like the the yes, no. Like is this what's this lease at? Oh, now that I can't do that much sales for me to go over 5%, you know, of rent to sales, I would just say no. You know, so say if it was a $1,000 lease, just put easy. Take Broadripple, right?

Take broadle. If they say it's $30 a square foot, we want $30 for this this buildout. You know, from there, you just say, "All right, well, you know, what's the square footage?" Multiply it. So, if you get into $150,000 a year, right? And then you just do a multiplier out from that, you'd multiply by 20.

And can you do that revenue or not? And if the answer is no, if I can't do I mean, I don't I don't I have my phone with $2 million. Let's Yeah. Right. If you don't think you can pull off $2 million and what are you doing all right off the jump? You're going to be behind.

You're going to already be losing money. Wow. And I think there's a lot of people who are in restaurants who've never learned those lessons. You know, I was lucky in that Ed had gotten to learn those. He'd opened and closed locations and I had kind of seen it firsthand as I was running. So, there's things like that where opening a brewery.

We Yeah, it definitely was one of those uh it was very hard. It It's still hard. It's hard right now, but uh I think it's worth it because we have a unique product. We control the margins. We we get to pay people locally who contribute to our our brand and our culture and I think make us a better and healthier company. Um so all that considered, it was worth all the the the pain and process to get to where we're at.

Okay. So brewery and the canteen, those kind of open around the same time. Yeah, they're the Yeah, the same time. How do those like take off early on? Is it wellreceived? Do people love the 86 Street location?

Well, the thing we were and was we were the first place that actually used the Monon. You know, I I grew up in Indiana. I grew up in Indianapolis. So, for me, I I loved the Monon Trail. You know, I remember it like becoming a thing. And uh I we walked by, we were looking for a spot and I was like, you know, I'm I'm a 27year-old.

I I want somewhere I can like ride my bike and and run. I lived in Broadle Park basically to the north. So, for me, I was just trying to be able to like get on my bike and go up the Monan and be somewhere, go down the Monan and be somewhere. And uh when that was open at the Snoody Fox, that property became available. You know, they had a grease trap on the like basically on the monanon. They had all their stuff bas behind there.

Like the monanon was was weeded up and treed up. You couldn't even see it. And I went there and I was like, well, this is like a a mecca. Why why would we not have something that people could just run to and walk to and bike to? And you know, I would argue that Big Lug was really the first place that put the mo put something nonparking lot first. Like you know, we were we weren't about how many parking spots we had.

It was that you could, you know, ride your bike over here and have some beers and then, you know, head back head back home. So, wow. That wasn't a thing. That was that was I mean I would say and I'm so people can argue me there was places in Broad who were kind of on the Monan, but we were clumps and like all those that are like sort of kind of on there. Yeah, exactly. Like I mean Bruge was really close at that time and and uh you know there's a couple little restaurants that kind of hung out over there like the Monkeykey's Tail was but none of them were were Monanon first and we were just like yeah we're on the Monan like we the Monan is our entrance.

This is our beer garden. This is where we hang out. This is there's a bar out here you can get to go beers like we were that was our focus and that erupted. I mean, I I you know, I'm not going to take credit for Caramel doing all the stuff they do on the Monan, but I think it was a sign of how healthy a business you could have putting that first. And from that, go look at go 5 miles north of Caramel and look at their Monan. And it's like, oh boy, that is amazing.

But they invested in that cuz I think they saw the bigger picture of how much better a walkable, usable part of a city could be if it wasn't just parking lots and cars. So, yeah. Well, I'm having I'm having Mayor Frink on soon. I know that's probably more brainer, but like asking the question where it's like, hey, where did you guys get the idea for Midtown Garl? Yeah. And you know, I I think you know, you're always going to look around, how's everyone else doing?

And Big Lug was unique cuz no one else was doing it. You know, I just was convinced it would work in that little pocket. I mean, you had like was Taylor's right there at the point like across the street. Yeah, Taylor's was right there. Like there different concepts. Chris's ice cream was there in that Nora block though.

It's like there wasn't really like this style of place. No, not at all. I mean, that that has blown up in the past, even just four years, you know, with culinary dropout and, you know, the the Whole Foods is is over there and all the realignment they're doing with West Elm. So, yeah. No, it was it was uh it was bleak over there in Nora. I loved the city.

I love North Central. I have an affinity for North Central. I went to Cathedral, but I just love that there's this high academic, you know, really cool, adaptable high school that's just right down the street from all of us. Uh, so I thought being around that area and and you know getting local kids to work for me and kind of give them a place to come up through that they could learn lessons and move on. So yeah, it was it was a fun spot. So it's a home run.

Yeah, it was that spot ends up being a home run. And then you start to get continue to pour more growth on. And at some point like again, I don't know what you guys would say the flagship Psalms like, you know, the pinnacle is. But for me personally, from the outside, it's like one Sam's Place is always great cuz it's right in my neighborhood. But like, talk about hitting a home run half liter barbecue. Yeah.

That was the first one we were like, "Oh, this is kind of out of control." But I'll say this, it wasn't a home run at first. No way. I mean, cuz we opened up Leader House and so the German This was a German restaurant, right? Yeah. Well, originally Halfleer wasn't a concept when we were starting it.

The the original name was Leader House, right? And I was opening it up with a a group of really talented people. Uh and and you know, I have an affinity for German culture and German beer. And uh you know, I was like, you know, there's just nothing. Beer to me is community. As much as it's about flavor and and all those other things, I I've always looked at beer as being a thing where when you look at European culture and how they drink beer, you know, German, but just European in general, it's just like a natural part of their day.

You know, you go to the pub, you get a pint, you but you're there to talk to your friends. You're like, you're having a pint talking about your day, talking about, you know, uh uh uh you know, talking [ __ ] and doing all the stuff you got to do. But it's not really about like let's talk about how good this beer is. You It's just high quality beer. It's it's really good. You're excited to have it.

It's the verb. It's like I'm having a beer. I'm having a beer. I'm having a beer and you're like, you know, just bullshitting with your friends and hanging out and having fun and you know, and beer got away from that. You know, it did. And it I never loved that, but like it got away from it just being fun to have one and talk and build community around.

So to me, Leader House was a way to get back to like classic beer, having conversations, having really good food because there was this there wasn't a lot of fine dining or nicer dining. So that was the goal was we're going to do this kind of upscale dining, you know, uh uh do something a little bit, you know, not fancy, but like a a little higher level touch service, a little higher level ingredient, you know, let's but you know, it kind of got away from who we are, our core identity. I didn't think the value was great. Uh and oh, by the way, COVID happened in 2020, so we've been open for one year. So, and okay, the whole space was different. If I remember correctly, you came in off of that whatever that street is.

What's the street that Half Liter is on? Winthre. You came in off Winthre and you would like walk through the front door and it was like this Yeah. kind of upscale German restaurant, right? You could see the brewery. We had this beautiful bar.

Um you sat about 150 people. Uh and so then in like late 2019 we were talking like you know I had this guy working for me. We were going to do a barbecue place and uh you know we were what are we going to name it? We didn't have a name. We just knew we were going to do barbecue. Uh and I was like I don't know.

It's half of Leader House, right? Let's just call it Half Liter you know. And uh you know that's we named it after beer. Let's just do it again. And so half liter was born out of it was just the other h half of liter house. So that's okay.

So then you were doubled you. It was two restaurants at the same time. It was two restaurants for a little while about 6 months. And then when co happened we basically said well we have to close one of them. This is well and we're going to close the one that doesn't have any outdoor space which was leader house because during co we had no idea what was happening. Uh every day felt new and different.

we had to do something and so we're well let's at least have the outdoor space where we can be more flexible and you know have social distancing and when we can have people it'll be easier for us to do and you're it's right against the mon. Yeah, it's right on the mon and sat more people. So it wasn't like we did it because we had you know some brilliant idea. It just was like that's the more logical choice for us to go with. Do you think if co didn't exist would leader house still exist? No, I don't think it would because it wasn't on a good trajectory.

It just wasn't it wasn't hitting. Like I said, I don't think the value is very good. I I I think we were trying to be something that our company is not. We're just not we're not that you know there's places who like Cunningham's places do a great job with it. Like we're not a Blue Beard. We're not a We're not a Vita.

We're not a you know, we're not a you know, we're not a St. Elmo. We're just not like we we're not those places. We're not luxury. You're a you're a valuedriven place to grab a beer and like to like hang out. It's an everyday place.

It's a community. We're we're 40 years of not top 40 list. Like we just you know if you come to our places I think you know they're good. Like you walk away thinking that was good but you don't walk away being like I've never seen anything like that. But there is there is something that feels like natural like it's meant to be there. And there's plenty of restaurants like like I love 20 tap and uh uh you know there's restaurants I love where I'm like they just feel natural like it's it's supposed to be there.

You know it's like it's meant to be there. How active in Leader House was like your idea, your planning, your perspective? Yeah, I mean 100% mind from the idea. So, yeah. Was it hard then? Something you dreamed up and thought like this is going to be a hit to say like, well, it's time to give my idea the axe.

Yeah. I mean, I I I still think a German restaurant would work in in Broadle. I think like I just it needed to have more outdoor space. It needs to be a beer garden, you know? It needs to be more cuz like I mean, you go over Indiana, specifically southern Indiana, you know, you go down towards like the Cincinnati corridor, you go down towards the Jasper corridor. It's crazy, dude.

German restaurants. Crazy. They dasoot. Come on. I mean, you know, I think, you know, Goodman House has done a good job with it. Like, they are more like, you know, German focused food and and their beer gardens.

Like, you know, if I could do it over again, I would have done something more like that. Um, but, you know, it's I'm not I'm not mad that we did it. I don't regret it at all. I just like, you know, it definitely was one of those things where it wouldn't have worked co in hindsight, co kind of gave us a nice out to close it. Uh, but the people who work for me were wonderful. I mean, a lot of those guys now are are doing great things across the city, you know, on their in their own ways.

So like that team was amazing but just you know financially it was just not it wasn't going to make it. But the barbecue joint on the other side of it yeah it crushes goes at what point did it start to go berserk and you were like oh my gosh like this thing is wild. Uh the year after co I think that pentup animosity not animosity that's the wrong word but just like wanting to go outside just like you couldn't do anything and people were like saving their money like even if they weren't saving their money they were buying a bunch of stuff online. You're not spending as much on going out. Exactly. So, it's like as soon as things start to clear up, you're like, "Oh, yeah."

Well, as much as people bought like green eggs for their backyard or new pools or new patio furniture, like most people don't want to entertain themselves. Most people want to be entertained. And Half Liter became this like, where are we going to go? Well, let's just go to Half Leader. And we became that place of like it was you would go there to be seen. You knew you're going to see some neighbors.

You knew you're going to see a buddy. You could hang out there all day. We have great cocktails. We have great beer. Everything's good value. And it just hit.

I mean that year after co we were we look around and be like what is this like we we just weren't that place that was that packed. So then it was that was a you know we had to embrace that ideology of like oh this is we have to like figure this out like you know son's place is 180 seats you know half leaders 500 so is it really? Yeah I mean upstairs downstairs outside yeah some seats about 500 people. Wow. So figuring that out was just like you know a fun lesson to learn. That's a high and but barbecue is a good concept for high volume, right?

Oh, for sure. You could not do a psalms with 500 seats. I mean, there's just no way. I mean, in most places you couldn't. It's just a It's very hard. It has to be one of those concepts where you have It's like you're not having to go smoke a brisket.

You You do it one time and it serves a lot of people, you know? It's like one of those bulk prep type almost like a catering type thing. Yeah. And we had to accept the idea that we weren't going to be this like um a gourmet catering spot, you know, like I I had people, your burn-ins aren't as good as these or your your brisketss not as good. It's Well, I hear you and I and I'm not here to like make excuses, but we're making brisket for like 1,500 people on a Wednesday. Like, that's we're not making three brisketss and when it's gone, it's gone.

Like, if someone shows up to halfter at 7:00 p. m. and wants brisket and we say we don't have any, man, we're Come on, man. That's not a Sam's way. That's not how we are. We got to make sure we got it.

So we, you know, we we might not have the exact fresh brisket that you want out of Austin, Texas. But it's really good for what it should be, dude. It's so good. Yeah. But we had to accept the idea that like are we going to make top, you know, 10 best barbecue in the country? No.

You know, we're not. But are we going to be a place that like everyone loves to go and hang out at? Yeah. I mean, that's you know, like there's a like one there's a butler kid who started I think it's called Ben's Barbecue, maybe. Yeah. The the Shack Ben's Barbecue Shack.

That's that one's in Westfield. Then there's another a kid who started the food truck. Like food truck barbecue sick. It's like you know you you you smoke up a few of the things, you park it up, when it's gone, it's gone. And it's like the scarcity mindset. Love that.

There's totally a place for that. Austin does great barbecue like that. What I love it's like you're going to get what you want when you come into Half Liter. You have the outdoor vibe, the beers going and it's just like a fun spot for a group hang. Yeah. I would much rather be known as the community spot versus the barbecue spot.

Like I would just much rather be known as a place that's that's a lot of fun to hang out at and we have a really good time versus the place that's like well that's that's the best. I I prefer the the real stuff to like the nerdy stuff, you know, the nerd out how good is beer or what. I just don't it's not really my thing. Yeah. And then so you know time goes on and does that my guess from the outside looking in that ends up becoming like the crown jewel of the hospitality group. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean as far as you know revenue is concerned for sure. You know uh you know catering is like our our crown jewel. Uh you know but that's we do it really well and it's just that kind of fits our mindset more than anything else and that is also a cheat code that I think like startup restaurant tours or like people that want to get into the space is like how is your kitchen making money out in the community? So it's also like a marketing chain where it's like oh where is this? It's from Sa you know and it's like convinces more people to go into your restaurants. You know, we restaurants are work, man.

They're work. And I think if you're going to do it, you got to accept the idea that you have to try to uncover every stone of how to get your food into people's hands and and help people and serve people. And um you know, we make it uh catering for us is easy because we work really hard, you know, but there's places who put it off cuz I think it is hard work and it's like, wait, I have to be available all the time and answer the phone all the time and it's like I mean, if you're not willing to do that, then don't do catering. But yeah, that's our crown jewel for sure. Okay. So what what do you guys end up opening after Half Liter?

After that, you know, we got contracted to do Turner's Bar downtown. So, uh you know, downtown we run Turners in the STS building. Uh start developing that concept. We Okay. Wait. So, how does that work?

Like are like is Turners is it a SAM like part of S's group or is it like someone else is the owner and you're So, the STS the STS building is owned by a group called Samra. Um, and uh I work with the Samra team on um we just run the bar. So I helped come up with they had a brand. They had the brand Turners. Yeah. So they own the name Turners, which was after Turner Woodard who'd owned the building and and so okay, you got Turner's.

Great. And they had a couple guys out of New York who were like designing like here's what we think the inside should look like. Here's, you know, we're going to build it out. And then it was up to me basically like, hey, we're going to hire Somalms to to bring it alive. Yeah. So, you know, we I made the menu uh alongside Steve Simon and uh my my beverage manager and and we we came up with the idea just for all the walls and and what you know, how we were going to serve people and what the food was going to be and how we were going to work with Julietas.

And so from there, you know, they paid us to be restaurant professionals. Um but they, you know, we get paid. It's a management contract. We get paid to run it and turn in profits and, you know, make it a fun bar. Did Did you get the email when MGK said he was going to do a popup there? Yeah.

Yeah, that was me. No way. I mean, it wasn't MGK emailing me, but uh it was uh his his record company. Did you think you were getting scammed? Yeah. Yeah, kind of.

So, I I had done something for the NBA, the NBA All-Star game came into town, right? Yeah. And we had a group who booked out Naughty by Nature and uh you know, you're down with OP. Yeah. Yeah. So, we had Yeah.

You know me. So, I was working with Innercope and Intercounty, whatever. And they just started doing their logistics stuff and Okay. So, I worked with Innercope before. So, uh, I think what had happened is that he had another, you know, place, I don't know where it was, but lined up and and they had to cancel. So, they kind of reached out to me knowing that I had worked with them and and had done something.

We're like, "Hey, we we have this MGK show. It might come to you in 2 months. We don't know." And then about 2 weeks before they go, "Okay, we're coming to you." And I was like, "What? What do we what do you mean you're coming to me?"

And they were like, "Well, we need to host it there. It's a popup. You know, it's not going to cost you anything." I was like, "Yeah, I got to get like fire marshals involved and blah." It was wild. It was it was one of the craziest things that I part of.

Yeah, it was cool. I mean, you know, it's not my style of music. Like I you know, as far as like culturally, it's not something I would have gone to, but being a part of it, it was wild. It was it was really cool. Well, I guess my invite must have got lost in the mail on that one. Yeah.

Oh, man. Well, I had a lot of friends who I had not heard of. A lot of like unknown numbers like, "Hey, Eddie, it's this person." I'm like, "Oh, you know, you must have heard about the Machine Gun Kelly show." So, dude, crazy. I just look on like, and it wasn't even just like local people's stories and like social media.

It was like getting clipped and picked up like MGK does a popup in Indianapolis at Turners and his team was great, you know, they were all really nice and he was really he was really respectful. I think he knew how crazy it would be like how how hard this type of thing is to control. So he was very respectful of the idea of like was it cool like did it end up going off like how you thought it was going to go? Uh no. Uh, I've never been more stressed out than like the 20 minutes leading up to that show in my life. And I have opened up 20 restaurants.

And did people know how was it announced that it was going to happen? Uh, I think it just was like through his page, through his social media page. He's like, "Yo, I'll be at Turner tonight in 2 hours." Yeah. We don't have security. We don't have, you know, it was like I mean, the amount of people who were mad at me for putting it on, but like you didn't tell me this.

I'm like, I was under NDAs. I I have never put anything on like this. So, what do you like? People were mad at you for what? Well, I mean, I just we had lines around the building. We had, you know, people blocking the street, you know, which like ambulances use because IU's right there, you know, IU medical.

So, like all that stuff was going it was I mean, it was just one of those things that felt so out of my control. Like, oh, this thing got way bigger than I can do anything about. So, it just got to the point where it was like, what am I going to do? Like, what how do I control this at all? And I and I don't feel like that very often. Like, I usually feel like I'm in pretty good control, but I I just had to be like, all right, well, here we go.

It could it could turn into riots. it could turn into an ambulance hitting somebody. Like, you know, the fire marshall could shut us down. I have no idea what's going to happen. I guess I just have to go with it. And so then I had people being like, we can't do that again.

I'm like, I don't think that's going to ever happen again. Like, yeah, it's truly like a a a one type of moment. So, I had to embrace it for that, you know, just let it let it kind of be viral, I guess, you know, but viral in real time is a very unique experience. Like, I'm sure when you make a post and like it goes viral, it's kind of it feels cool, but like it's con it's constrained by the internet. Like you it might take on weird forms of people saying negative things about you, whatever, but in real time like around you it it like you see the more people coming in and all you're like no wait leave. It's terrifying.

It is. It's terrifying cuz it's real things at stake. It's like real people could get hurt. I'm like so that was the scariest part of NGK. It was like everyone was there for good reasons. But the more uncontrollable it got the more it kind of felt like oh boy this could go south quickly.

And it didn't. It was amazing. Yeah, everyone was very respectful. He was great. Proud had a great time. Everyone dispersed.

So, I mean, in hindsight, hey, man, it was great. Would I do would I sign up to do it again? I mean, probably not. But, you know what? Whatever. Yeah.

Just take it as it comes. I mean, you got tons of publicity for Turners. Yeah. I've always been someone who just takes it as it comes. And that was just one of those times of like, you know what, I'll handle it. I'll do the work.

We'll we'll figure it out. And so, is Turner's the newest concept? No. So, we opened up Psalms Tavern, uh, which is in Irvington. Yeah. Uh, we opened up that, you know, shortly after Turner's.

And then um we we're opening up in Garfield Park here in a couple weeks. So what's the one in Garfield Park? It'll be called Big Lug Filling Station. Uh it's just like a it's right across from Garfield Park. Uh it's it's just got a cool outdoor vibe. And so we're doing that and then we're going to open up another one uh called Handsome Johnny's named after John Prine here in about a year and a half or so.

Oh, where at? Uh that'll be around like 52nd and Keystone on the nickel plate. Oh. So just the same thing. We're trying to be on bikable, walkable areas. is, you know, our goal is to make, you know, northern Indianapolis an easier place to walk and bike.

Okay. Wait, I feel like I', that's going to be like over by the Albby. Yep. Handsome Johnny's. Yeah, Handsome Johnny's. I like that.

Yeah, it'll be fun. So, John Prime's my favorite artist. And uh um you know, it's just kind of an ode to Midwestern drinking and eating. And so, he was like a mailman for a little while. I call it like a a mailman drinking, you know, like just kind of like vibing out, meeting a bunch of people. you know, John Prime, you know, kind of hospitality, laidback, fun, you know, entertaining, kind of goofy, you know, type of stuff.

I love it, man. So, so cool. Uh, I just I mean, I think you guys have a way of hitting winners. I know when you look back, it's like a part of the journey. Like, what are you most proud of? The fact that we're still completely, you know, familyowned, honestly.

I mean, you know, it's uh the the restaurants are great and I love it, but we just have such a unique community of people because of the fact that like they know the family who owns it, you know, and uh the network, the people I've got to meet because of what we do. I don't know, man. It just is like the fact that we kept it here and we didn't try to do anything else. We didn't try to like, you know, outsmart it or we were never really in it for the profits as much as just being a part of the community. So, that I'm proud of that probably more than anything else. Who's like the most famous person or like the coolest person or most interesting person whose favorite restaurant is one of yours?

You know, Alexander Rossi uh when he won his 500 as a rookie said that his his favorite uh food in the city was Big Lug Canteen Nashville chicken wings. So, he probably qualifies as the biggest. Yeah, that's pretty at some point he came in like a year later and was like, "Yeah, I can't eat them anymore. I'm I changed my diet." And I was like, "Oh man, you can't tell people that." Yeah.

Yeah. That's pretty sick, man. I love it. Uh, amazing. So, we have the Garfield Park spot opening up soon. Then out in the future, there's going to be another spot at 52nd.

I just ran the nickel plate this morning. Yeah. Great trail. Yeah, it's a great trail. Totally hidden gem. Yeah.

Like more people I did the loop like I did a Monan nickel plate down the whole thing. It's awesome. Yeah. And you know the Monan when it first opened people fought you know when the Monan was opening people were like ah this is bad and this isn't going to work and neighborhoods were mad about it. I mean you go talk to those same neighbors now about the Monan. People love the Monan, you know, makes your home value go up, makes the neighborhood more walkable, it's easier to have a family.

So, uh, I think the nickel plate is going to be the same thing. Once once it kind of starts really revving up, it's going to be great. Okay. So, if we had to go through all the spots that you have, can you can you name them all? So, there's the the Roost Nora. There's the Roost Fishers, which is our breakfast place.

We have Big Lug Canteen. We have SS Village A House, Ale House, Salee House, which is in the village of West Clay. Uh, we have SS Haven, which is on Heritage Lake. That's a hidden gym just of our own. Just Dude, that is a crazy Why out in why out here? It was a co decision.

It was an opportunity and we were looking for outdoor things and uh it's a cool community. Uh does it make it hard that it's spread out? I mean that one's kind of the only really spread out one honestly, but even then, no. I mean, not really. It's it's you know, it's an hour if that. So, not that bad.

So, uh SS Haven, uh S's Place, SS Restaurant and Bar, which is in uh uh Fisers. I guess Garfield Park's not listed yet, but S's Tavern, the SS Catering. Is there a community cafe? Yeah, S's I don't really consider that a restaurant. So, S's Cafe is a is a cafe we run in the new Fischers Community Center. It's great.

We love it. But that's like something where, you know, we're doing like wraps and and some pizzas and, you know, well, all like the stuff for all the like kids, you know, sodas and stuff like that. And now the Rivy as well. Yeah. And then the Rivy will be part of what we do as well now doing their food. But that's them.

So, they you know, we're we're working with them. It's not really our restaurant. just trying to facilitate it and help them be the a community fixture for years to come. Yeah, man. I love it. Uh you're doing incredible work.

We're going to round it out with some fun Indiana questions. Let's do it. All right. So, this question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homejart.

com. My question for you, why do you call Indiana home? uh you know I was I was born and raised here and uh you know when I had the option to leave you know I I kind of had some self-reflection where I what was I going to gain by going somewhere else and and all the things I kept saying you know and and getting back to I already had in Indianapolis. So then I thought, you know what? What if I'm going to build the life I want and and where I want to get to and who I want to be, why not just go take advantage of those things I already have, you know, and build on them versus saying that's a bad thing, you know, having people who love you and having friends and and family and uh networking already done, you know. I I looked at Indiana as a place for me that uh already had those things I wanted and and I could continue to build it to make the city a better place to live.

Yeah, absolutely, man. That's so good. I love it. driven by impact. Okay, we had a couple fun rapid fire questions for you. Favorite singular, you can only pick one.

Favorite SS menu item. I would say right now it's the half liter turkey mandarin salad. Uh it's got a goat goat cheese vinegarette, uh mandarin oranges, smoked turkey, um crunchy like Frenches, onions, um really fresh spring mixed lettuce. It's really it's really good. Wow. I that's cuz I'm trying to be kind of healthy.

I know I look like it, but like if I'm not being healthy, it's the it's the breaded tenderloin. Yeah. Hands down. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm a sucker for From which spot?

Uh I mean hopefully any of them if we're doing our job right, but uh I would say the one that feels the most nostalgic is when I get one at 116th in Allisonville. We make our own bread, you know, uh it's got really great, you know, day of day old, you know, fresh produce, uh hand dipped every single time. We cut our own tenderloins and tenderize our own tenderloins from whole sides. So, uh, it's just it's a tenderloin you cannot taste anywhere else. Just you can't because we make we make everything. Wow.

I love that. All right. I I haven't gotten the tenderloin yet. That Well, now you got to. Yep. Now I'm going to get it.

I saw here there's a sign that said best tenderloin and I was like, "All right, well, I got to get SS on the top of that." So, let's see what it is. All right. Absolutely. What's going on with the uh the block house building on the Mon at Half Liter? So, we don't own that property.

Uh there's some properties that we own. We don't own that one. And um you know I think ultimately it comes down to the amount of work and money it would take to do that. And we have great landlords but I I don't I don't necessarily think they're going to want to pay to take that down. Uh we can't use it. We tried to use it.

It is b it was basically deemed uh uh by an engineer like this is not salvageable. You you will something will go bad. So if you go inside you can tell where we had started doing some infrastructure work and then we had to abandon it. Like this isn't this is we heard like cracking in the walls and it's like oh this is bad. And so it used to be a filling station. Used to be like a train would pull up and they'd, you know, they'd have coal in there and help fill up and get them going.

Um, so, you know, we'd like to tear it down. Like that would be our our hope, our goal, cuz at this point it it's not dangerous. Like it won't fall, but like we can't do work on it. There's no way. We were going to do like a second floor thing and have it be like a tiki bar and hang out, but there's just no way. So, we're going to, you know, the goal is to tear that down, build a bar in the back that would be 21 and over that you could kind of people watch and hang out on the moan on and then keep the front family friendly and so that's the goal, but you know, it's it's just it's one of those things that like financially and timeline wise we have to figure out.

It would mean that we might have to shut down that that area for a while and that's not what we're trying to do. You know, we're trying to keep it open for the people. It's a balance. Yeah, that's that is okay. Another question. What would it take to bring a S's restaurant to Broadripple?

Like Broadripple proper. Landlords being realistic about how much they charge, you know, for the space they want. So, like if it would if the numbers if the math math you do it. Yeah. There's a building I want and I know the guy who owns it and and uh if my if my friend Paul is listening, I I've tried to convince him to make it happen. But I I love the garage building, the the lawn mower garage building.

Not the one by Flatwater. Mad respect to the Allens. The like the not the little small like the yellow one. Yeah. The yellow one. The one that's down a ways.

So yeah, if you're by Fernando's across the way. Yes. So I wanted to open up uh I had a I had a concept. That's where I wanted to open up Handsome Johnny's. Like I wanted it to be like a garage concept. We'd open up and like just throw a party out in the parking lot, lights and everything.

There's no parking. It was just there. Uh, and then the kitchen would be in the front house or at least like the storage kind of area, but we would basically just be this like cool cocktail bar, you know, doing bar snacks and stuff outside. Yeah. So, that was originally maybe one day. But to get Assams here, I mean, you know, these are old buildings.

They take a lot of work. They take a lot of money. Um, it's not that we're afraid to do the the investment to commit to that, but you know, the the what they charge per square foot right now is just not feasible for the amount of money it's going to take to not for us, maybe for somebody else. Yeah, I do feel that like it's also switched a little bit where it's like what was ripping and Broadripple in 2019 is different than what's ripping in Broadripple today because I would say like, you know, Thieves is proving that you can build a cool concept and thrive in Broadripple. There's places that can make it. I think for us and and how we do things, we we want long leases.

You know, we if we don't own the property, you know, it it's really hard. One of the difficult lessons you learn in this industry is if you don't own it and you have a landlord, you don't really have control. Yeah. Like that lease is coming and if it's coming in 5 years, that sounds safe, but what happens year four if that that what around you blew up? You know, the landlord doesn't have to resign you. They don't have to take you back.

They might think that they have $40 a square foot instead of 20 or 15. So, I mean, I we like to get long leases. And did you feel any of that when Halfleer did really well? you know, where it's like, oh, they see that you made this a gem and all of a sudden it's like everyone wants to Well, here's the deal. We sign We have about 40 years of leases at at Half Liter. So, we don't own it, but we basically they can't really kick us out, you know.

All right. So, we're chilling. Yeah, we're chilling. We've got barbecue for decades, people. But like, you know, Big Lug, we're here till 2038, you know, half liter here till 2045. I mean, but like we did that so that we would have control that we could control, you know, be in the margins, man.

Like, we don't have to worry about rent as much. So we can give you a better value on food. You know, a sams that charges $18 for a tenderloin. That doesn't that's not it, man. Like you know, a psalms that can't give you a free side include I'll get people like you charge $14. 99 for a burger.

It's like you get to choose any of our 23 sides. How many places do you know that give you free sides? Like most places are like, well, yeah, it's $10. 99 for a burger and the fries are $5. Well, that's more expensive than us and we give you 23 sides to pick from, you know. So those are the things where if I went to Broader, I would be a little worried or really anywhere.

That's why we're not downtown, you know, just to pay that rent kind of gets away from our core value of the best possible value that we can give to people is what we where we shine. If you could snap your fingers and get real estate on the Broader strip, what concept would you put in? Probably what I'm doing in Fischers. I'm opening up a place in Fischers this fall called Mama. Uh, and and I I've always thought there's a a unique tie-in between hooser like cuisine and like the stuff your grandma or grandpa made versus like kind of like eating like Latin American, you know, food. A lot of like fresh uh seasonal stuff like watermelon and and peppers and tomatoes and corn and and like, you know, we make like sauces and they'll do salsas, but like the the similarities.

I always thought there was this kind of fascinating, you know, uh, take that you could do. So we're open up a place called Mama where it's it's tied in Latin American roots but with like who's your ingredients and who's your mindset. So uh using local corn to nyx mimalize and make tortillas and uh uh you know using all Indiana beef and and uh uh chicken and pork to make tacos and great things. So that's kind of where that's what you that's the stuff I'm gonna do that in Fischers. I would do it in broad if I could. Mama, come on.

Let's go. Mama, too. All right, here we go. The final three questions that we ask everyone who comes on the show all about Indiana. First, this is your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana?

My my my hidden gem for food is a place called Faux Tasty. And it's in Castleton. All right. And it's this like little It's by like the Cal there's a California burger, you know? Have you heard of that? It's like a little California burger.

It's it's right off 82nd Street. And there's just these like three like sisters and a grandma who work in the kitchen and they're making fur and it is unbelievable. It's literally unbelievable. Every time I'm sick or if I if I'm just like, you know, it's cold weather, it's rainy, I'm going to fur tasty and it's like one person in the front hustling, it just feels like this shouldn't be here, but then you get this big bowl of fur in front of you. Their their rice is incredible. Their spring rolls are incredible.

Like I do tripe and and uh um I do extras. I get kimchi in there, man. It's It's like a If you want something like hidden for food, Fud Tasty is absolutely incredible. Fud Tasty. Yeah, but Fud Tasty is my my recommendation on that. I love it.

Sorry, I I I I saved one cuz I I wanted to know as far as the the hidden gem here. I I had to remember it. The the one that is not food related is Tonic Ball. I don't know if anyone's ever said Tonic Ball in here before, but I don't think so. It's not a hidden gem in the sense of like I feel like if you're I'm almost 40, but like if you're 40 or above, you probably know what Tonic Ball is, but Tonic Ball is so much fun. It is 100% local.

All it's a it's a fundraiser for Second Helpings. Happens in Fountain Square. All local bands do cover songs. So, we pick four artists a year. So, it'd be like Prince and uh Lady Gaga and Fish and, you know, uh it'd be just four different artists every year. And it always changes and it's always someone new.

and local bands learn three songs from one of the artists and they get to play at a music venue. Hi-fi, uh, White Rabbit, Squarecat Vinyl, and, uh, Radio and it's just packed and it's people are drinking and having a good time. You're listening to local bands play like songs that you know, and you're singing along and you're seeing familiar faces in the crowd and it is like one of the best nights in Indianapolis, bar none. Problem is, younger generations just aren't. It's getting a little older and I'm like, man, this is this is meant for everybody. Like, everyone should be at this thing.

The tickets aren't that expensive. It's an all night affair. It's basically like you can choose one of your favorite artists and just go listen to a few songs and hop over to the next one. Yeah. Tonic Ball, man. Tonic Ball.

All the proceeds all the proceeds go to Second Helping as well. So, it's a great cause and a great organization. So, um yeah, it it happens in November. Uh I think it's the week before Thanksgiving and um it's man, there's not much like Tonic Ball. Follow it. You know, I I go you'll see me there, but it's just a great time.

Tonic Bar last year was Marvin Gay. The B-52s at radio radio named three B-52s songs like Yeah. Uh Green Day. I I would have been there. And then Britney Spears. Yeah.

Which was a The Britney Spears was hilarious because that's the thing is you're getting like local metal bands who will learn a Britney Spears song. Like Joshua Pal did Britney Spears. He crushed it. You know, it's like you just find these like, you know, bands who are like, "Okay, if I want to play tonic ball, I got to learn one of these bands." And so people, you know, pick it up. It's it it's just wild.

It's so much fun. Everyone's having a good time. I love that. Uh, okay. Now, next question for you. This is where we get guest recommendations and hear about other Hoosiers that are doing great things.

Who's a Hooser we need to keep on our radar. Someone who's doing big things. Yeah. Um, so I'm a kidney transplant uh recipient. I had a kidney transplant in 2016. I had a degenerative kid disease when I was growing up.

And uh, I can't The guy who gave me his kidney is my my best friend's brother. He doesn't like publicity. So, I don't I don't uh say his name because he's just a super humble life-saving guy. But my surgeon's name was William Gogggins. And William Gogggins just passed 3,000 kidney transplants. He has he has give done 3,000 transplants at IU to save 3,000 lives.

I would say that for the amount of work and effort that goes into how much publicity they get, William Gogggins might do more good in Indianapolis than like any human being. Yeah. uh and you would never hear his name, but he is he's done 3,000, which is almost unheard of in in that industry. Uh he's just a world class guy, sharp as attack, does modern techniques and kidney transplant. And you know, I think our our you know, just donating organs and and being a donor is such a huge thing. So, uh if you if you want to see that part of the world or hear from somebody who's just literally saving lives hundreds of times a year, you know, William Gogggins would would be my Dr.

William Gogggins would be my guy. Dr. William Gogggins. How long do you have to give or do kidney transplants to hit 3,000? I mean, if you did, if you did a hundred a year, you know, you call it, it would take you 30 years. That's wild.

Shout out to Dr. Billy Gogggins, baby. Come on. Yeah, he's he's great. What a guy. I love that.

You're totally right. Like definitely under the radar, but doing a ton of good. Okay, finally, last question for you. This is kind of a new one that we've added to the show. I want you to think about, you know, your entire life being a hooer. What is your favorite Indiana memory?

I'm I'm a relatively new father. Uh, you know, I have a four almost four-year-old and a one and a half-year-old. So, uh, you know, really now all these memories are so awesome just getting to be with my family. You know, last year we were in the dunes um, uh, up a northern like Porter County and, uh, it was unreal just being on the lake and and with my kids and walking through the dunes and just exploring. So that was amazing. As far as as growing up, man, my my favorite memory I honestly I tie it back to Broadple.

Um just being a kid, you know, being, you know, 23 years old, 24 years old. Broader uh was so much fun and and uh just being with friends and being loose and and the ability to be reckless. Like everyone was just having a good time and doing goofy things and loving one another. And um you know, I look back at just random nights in broader bowls, like the the most fond memories. Um, and then as a business owner, probably MGK. You probably hit on the That's uh uh the ability that just put on stuff like that and have a lot of fun and and goof around.

I would say it was probably the the my most favorite business memory. I love it, man. Eddie, it's been uh it's been incredible to hear a little bit more about the story that is S's Hospitality Group. You talk about from what 116th in Allisonville in Fisers, Indiana, spreading all over through two generations, a family business, a new CEO, like an outside the family CEO coming in and just like the growth you guys have seen now with Turners and down at Garfield Park with the filling station. Like, dude, y'all are crushing it. You just got to keep going, man.

It's there's no easier way to to do well in restaurants than just outwork everybody. And that's kind of the the track we're on. I love it, dude. Keep up the good work and we'll talk to you soon. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me on.

This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get