Why Indiana is the Next Big Thing in Marketing and Media

What is the thing that people instantly think about you the moment they think about you? What are they all rolling up to?

Bringing the human aspect into those big conversations. People want to work with people. I think we just care about our clients and their business growing and we'll do whatever it takes.

Creative brilliance, right? That is like the piece that sets agencies apart. How do you sell on creative brilliance from South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between? This is Get In, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Before we get into today's episode, one of our partners, Pence Media Group, has been working to help elevate a few local brands into the national spotlight. Nicole, what have y'all been up to?

We have a lot of cool things going on right now at Pence Media Group, but one of the neatest clients that we've had for a long time is National FFA. And since school's starting up, I thought I'd bring it up. Like not everybody realized that National FFA, the largest youth leadership organization in the country, is headquartered right here in Indiana. More than a million members, so a million students are a part of National FFA chapters all over the country. A lot of chapters here in Indiana. And you know them because they wear that blue jacket, right?

I was just gonna say a million members. Like the corduroy the corduroy jacket business has to be good. It it is very good for FFA. And I think when people say to me, oh, our youth have nothing to do and in high school and they're not motivated and they need to be good leaders and they can't look people in the eye. I say, have you checked out National FFA? So, we've been doing a lot of PR nationally for National FFA for a long time. And one of the stories we recently did was with Parents Magazine and we talked a lot about how you got to put your kid in something that helps them think on their own, communicate on their own, learn on their own. And so partnering with National FFA is absolutely one of my favorite things we do at PMG.

I love it. And we're getting ready for national convention. It's going to be coming up in October, right?

That's right. And talk about Quarter jackets. They're like everywhere.

Oh, they take over downtown. It's great.

They do. And again, it's cool. I mean, it's a big deal that we have that headquartered right here in Indiana and agriculture is booming. So, it's really neat to have it all connected back to the Hoosier State.

I love it. Well, hey, keep up the good work and we'll talk soon.

Sounds great.

Now, let's get into the episode. Today I'm joined by Chance Benbo and Tony Miranda. Chance is the CEO and Tony is the VP of business development at JDA Worldwide, a full-ervice marketing and communications firm with expertise in a variety of industries headquartered right here in Indianapolis. Now, Chance has a fun story from starting a marketing agency what 6 months after graduating from Anderson. Tony has been in sports and oh my gosh, so many cool uh career paths and I'm excited to dive into all the great stuff you guys are doing at JDA and a little outlook on what's going on downtown and the future of uh of all the cool things JDA. Gentlemen, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having us,

guys. I'm really excited. We're going to drop it. I'm I'm just going to get it off the table early on. Chance was just awarded the IBJ 40 under 40. So, we are in the presence of of royalty here in the studio today and I'm really pumped. But the story doesn't start with accolades and trophies and, you know, a penthouse downtown office, you know, like right in the heart of Indianapolis. It starts at little old Anderson University up towards the Muny area, the Anderson area. So, Chance, take us into like where did you get your start when it came to all things marketing?

It goes all the way back to Anderson. Um, I was a marketing major and I took this class where basically what you got to do is you got to manage a real account. Uh, and uh, ours was Irwin Union Bank. It was an old bank in Indianapolis. And right at that moment, I was like, you know what? Like this is something I want to do. I want to do marketing especially like on behalf of clients uh, from the agency side of things. So, we did that class and I was kind of hooked. had a marketing internship after that and a dear friend of mine, Andy Kennedy, uh he and I just decided like, hey, we took this class. It was one semester. Obviously, we know everything there is to know about marketing, so we might as well just start our own uh agency in college. But it actually kind of worked out like we represented car dealerships, furniture galleries, coffee shops.

What was the first one? Like what was the first business? Did you like put on a little like suit and like walk into a car dealership and get them to pay you $500 a month or whatever?

Yeah. You want to hear the big break?

Yeah. So, there's this uh Chevy dealership in Muny, American Chevrolet.

Yes.

And Andy and I are in our apartment. We're living together, and we come up with this idea called the American Chevrolet hunt for the truck. And do you remember back in the day when you would like text a five-digit number to like enter into a sweep stakes?

Yeah. So, we told them, this is during truck month, and we're like, "Hey, why don't you wrap a Silverado in camo and put five big orange letters on the side of it, and if you spot the truck driving around Muny, you can enter in to win a weekend long hunting trip to Tennessee. All expenses paid, all that kind of stuff." They ended up selling the second most trucks in the state that month.

No way.

Yeah, the creative was pretty cool. And I think we got paid like two grand to do that,

dude. two grand for your first project and in 20 like how did you get them to believe cuz a lot of things I mean I get this feedback like I'm really good at coming up with crazy ideas and some hardest part is to get the other the person on the other side of the table to believe that this will work and that you can pull it off well I can't imagine what it was like the being across the table from the two of us I mean we're 20 21 years old at that point

but I mean the pitch was pretty cool and they ended up getting tons of test drives and they you know sold a bunch of trucks that month and the creative was cool and uh yeah man it was it was fun.

And so from that one you're like we just hit winners like you you guys remember the hunt for the truck sweepstakes like that was us.

That's right.

Okay. So you roll that one into you get two grand. You're 20 years old. Not even old enough to go spend it at the chug yet. So like you're good to go.

That's right. Yeah. But no, we we did some things in between that and really I mean we just kind of kept it rolling all throughout. I think that might have been like our our junior year. We kept it going through our senior year and we would just do little things here and there, but like it was fun to figure out like how to act like an owner and you know, you get one that hits and it's just like I want to do that again.

How were you learning besides the class where you clearly learned everything there is to know about marketing agencies? How were you learning how to run a business and like what to put in a sales deck and how to pitch people?

Yeah, I mean we just kind of figured it out. That was the fun thing. Um, I would say overconfident and underprepared would probably be the the the cocktail for how all that worked out. But we shot a lot of shots. I mean, we would talk to anybody. We went to like car repair shops. We went to coffee shops, uh, sports complexes, and we just, you know, would sit around and think of ideas that we thought would be really cool for him. And a lot of spec work. So, you know, we were doing some of that.

What does that mean?

So, we would just like come up with ideas, build them out, and then show them to them. And it was kind of like, hey, if you like this, it's kind of ready to ship.

Oh, see, I I like it all starts with the idea. So, it's like you start with like, you know what, regardless of if they want to work with us today or not, like, let's think of the idea and then we'll pitch them the idea and if they like it, did you ever have anyone take your idea and try to execute it without you?

Probably. Yeah. I can think of one. Uh, when we got started full-time, that kind of stunk, but you know, you you got to take those lumps when they go.

Yeah. And it's like it just gives you some credibility when you walk in with a plan versus like, oh, we're going to think of the most creative idea ever. Right. That's right.

Um, and then you ended up graduating from college and you're like, you know, this was we had a fun ride, but I probably need to go get a job and join the workforce and, you know, climb the corporate ladder. And that lasted all of 6 months.

Andy and I, we went to uh dinner with my dad who he's run marketing advertising agencies since 1987

up in Muny.

That's right.

Okay.

Yeah. We we get with them and we're like, "Hey, we're ready. Like, we're going to go start our own agency. We're going to keep this thing rolling. like it's in our apartment now, but like watch out. Like we're going to we're going to do it.

So he he sits with us. We were at Kona in Caramel. I I'll never forget it. And he's like, "Awesome. Like how much do you guys think you should get paid?" And we're like, "I don't know, like 30 or 40 grand."

This is 2009, right? 2010. And he's like, "Awesome. So you need like equipment like laptops and stuff like that." And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." He's like, "Office space?

Yeah, yeah. Software? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All that stuff." And he's like, "Cool. Well, you know, you guys need to generate like 20 25 grand worth of revenue every month.

Are you ready for that? And Andy and I kind of looked at each other like, "Oh crap." Like that's that's pretty steep. So at that point, we're like, "All right, so maybe like that would be like 12 American Chevrolets per month." So like maybe we're not quite ready for that. So Andy got this awesome job in Texas.

I got a job here in Indiana, both at agencies. And we were doing our thing. Like I was working on some cool accounts like GE, Aunt Milliey's bread, uh, do it best hardware, like kind of cutting my teeth, low man on the totem pole. I remember Andy was like helping redesign his entire agency's website. Yeah, man. Literally like five or six months later, we're like, "Forget this, man.

Like, we're learning a lot, but like let's go do it. Like, we can figure this out." So, we just decided like, "Hey, let's let's go do this thing." And we decided to start the agency in Traverse City, Michigan, because Traverse City is awesome. We were just like, "Hey, like we're gonna go start this thing."

People People like to complain about like the Northern Indiana winners. We're like Traverse City winners. I can only imagine.

Yeah.

And kind of the stones on you guys to move to a market where you don't know any like you don't have these connections. Your dad isn't like doesn't have any connections. Like no one has any connections, right? I don't know. Do you guys have ties to Traverse City?

Just like summer vacations since like 93. That's it.

And the one thing that locals love is vacation travelers in place.

They call them fudgies up there. So, we were fudgies, but yeah, man, we kind of we made it work and we ended up getting a lot of work in Muny where we're from. But yeah, man, like Traverse City and Muny were the the hot markets that we penetrated.

Absolutely. Uh then you you had this thing of pulling the the thread of like this cool agency, great ideas, all that stuff. Tony, you also had the idea of of starting a career in something sexy like sports, correct? Like what coming out of TR, you were a football player up there. chance you were a football player at I was on the football team. I did not play football at Depal, but we have we have people that were all on football teams in college here, right? Tony, you left trying uh and then you started your career in sports. Where did you where'd you start at?

Yeah, so I uh took an internship at the speedway in after graduating. Yeah,

dude. Nothing like the postgrad internship. heads

and I had had two in college and so you know you graduate and I probably applied for 30 sports jobs and as you can guess getting into the sports world is not the easiest thing to do. Didn't really want to sell tickets. Had gotten some advice on if you want to do it do it but you're probably going to be in tickets for a while. So I said okay and started a marketing internship at IMS and was like marketing is a big word let's figure it out. and uh glad I did where I learned a ton as you know in May at IMS is pretty nuts and so got to be in the office 40 hours a week managed some of the brand ambassador team things like that which was great got very fortunate to meet some great people in Indianapolis like the Seth Morales the Dave Nef found my way to Michael Lake over at the Pacers and they were hiring a sponsorship activation person and got my first opportunity in real pro sports because most of the time at the track you know They they staff up in the summer, but there's not usually a lot of opportunity after that.

So, just learned the networking grind and started meeting people and was really happy to get an opportunity to go work for the Pacers for a couple seasons.

This is a fun fact that not a lot of people know. I went to a WNBA championship game courtesy of Tony Miranda. This would have been 2015.

Yeah, this

the fall of 2015. They made it. It was against Minnesota.

I think it was game six at home maybe. Tony like think this is 20 this is 2015 that season like you couldn't give tickets away to Fever games you know like he did give them away to us and we like almost didn't go considering it was like a 60-minute drive from Green Castle India and I just remember like we uh me and Zach Williams were late additions so everyone else is courtside our like first six buddies like Kade all the dudes Dom all courtside and we're like up in the Raptors of the WNBA championship but

I remember like that was when I was like dude Tony has like the coolest job. Like imagine just being able to like give courtside tickets to a NBA champ or WNBA championship game. Like I was like that's so sick. Yeah. And then from there you ended up going and working with Lefield, right?

Yes. Yep. Learfield uh with the IU sports property. Really wanted to get on the sales side of sponsorship. So uh went over to Lefield in 20 at the end of 2015 and uh spent five seasons uh selling for the Hooers. Um which was a lot of fun. also like there's this does anyone see this like trend where it's like Tony leaves and then like the teams become spectacular like I don't know good luck like yeah right the Hooers are now ripping but this was like pre that where again like I don't know if you could like give away a season tickets to IU football back in the day but you know now it's like the hottest thing

yeah it's been fun to see

where did your paths end up crossing for the first time

so it's kind of funny where I was uh calling on Chance when he was at Main Street trying to get him to sponsor the Hooers. Uh didn't have a lot of luck there. Uh but uh really it was it was through Dave Nef again where in 20 during my time at Lefield, got my NBA at Butler was kind of like, okay, I like the sports thing, but what else could be out there? 2020 hits with COVID. Sports was in a weird place. And so I got coffee with Dave.

He had just joined our parent company, Prolific, and uh was like, "Hey, we're looking at at building this out." And so went through the interview process that summer of 20 and I think Chance was like my fifth or sixth interview and actually got to come into the office which was nice and I'd say we we kind of clicked right off the bat pretty um with the D3 football from Indiana you know love sports and uh so that was really when it started and and over the last five years has just grown grown a lot. Chance, where did you end up getting into JDA and and kind of like the family business

after our agency that we started that we ended up selling? Um, I went on the client side for a little while for four years.

When you say on the client side, like give us

It was at Main Street. So, Main Street built luxury nursing homes and had a really really meteoric rise from probably around 2012 through uh, call it, you know, 2015, 2016. and I got to lead marketing for that organization. And man, you talk about being underqualified for a job. I mean, this is like a $300 million industry-leading real estate company. And they're like, "Hey, let's let's let Chance lead marketing for this."

That's product is luxury nursing homes.

Yeah. And and we were early in that space. So, like you see a lot of really high-end like nursing homes, assisted living, things like that. But Main Street that was headquartered in Caramel, they were really kind of like right on the tip of the spear on

but not quite like wrapping trucks and camo and like hunting trips. It's like

Yeah. But I will say the cool thing about like some of those sectors that are underserved, when you do a really good job of marketing, it shines so much brighter, right? Like when you think about like fashion or automotive and things like that, the table stakes are so much higher because everything that you see is pretty excellent. Uh but in the senior living space there's not a lot of excellence in the marketing side. So when you do a really good job it just really stands out a lot more.

I totally agree with this and I think in the terms of all of marketing right it's like let's say like creative for um like Instagram like if you're making videos like what we do right food so easy like the bar is so like high for to make the best food content because everyone can make food look good. because it's food and everyone likes that. But it's like how do you make um insurance or like these like more difficult to Instagram businesses, how do you like give them a good look and a brand and a feel like that's the that's where the like I know the real geniuses I feel like.

But I love that. I mean some of some of the partners that we have, you know, that are more call it diamonds in the rough. They're like category leading brands or they're kind of like the leaders in their field. And for us, it's like, why don't they deserve to have a really awesome story told about them, right? It's kind of like, who cares if it's metal spinning? It's like, well, it's not metal spinning. Maybe it's a component that um is for the Department of Defense and for, you know, some of the stuff that like keeps us safe, right? So, it goes from, you know, we're the small manufacturing company to know like we keep our country safe in these things that we care about. So, I think just how we frame things and and thinking more of our partners than maybe they even, you know, think of themselves. I love that.

And I think it a lot of it starts with like how do you how do like how does your partner or how does your the business owner talk about like, oh, it's just metal spinning. And it's like whoa whoa. You got to like I say about Indiana. Like next time you're in Chicago and someone's like where you from and you like roll your eyes and I live in Indiana. It's like no no you got to be I live in Indiana and it's sick and there's cool stuff going on. Caitlyn Clark and Tyrese live here. Let's go. Um, so you were leading marketing at Main Street. Y

and then what four years, five years? How long did it take you to get back to JDA?

Yeah, so that was 2017 and you know that was kind of one of those things where you know my my dad had started um an advertising company in uh 1987 year I was born and then he started JDA in 2003.

And you know I never wanted to do the family business. didn't want sort of like the you know hey nepotism any of that. So like really all my career I was like you know what like love my dad but you know I kind of want to do things on my own. And uh at that point having started Intersection you know with some some friends and then getting to do the main street thing. Kind of was really kind of feeling like hey you're doing the right thing doing this the right way. But then that's right about the time JDA was really taking off uh growthwise.

And uh my dad and I got breakfast and he was like, "Look, I understand that this isn't something that you forecasted, but if there was ever a time for you to do this, then let's do it now." So, I thought about it, you know, talked to the wife. And, you know, kind of went back to him. I was like, "All right, man. Like, I'll do this, but I don't want any equity. Like, I want you to treat me like you would anybody else."

And like, I just want to help you finish this thing strong. And funny, that's been almost nine years ago. And like, we haven't really slowed down since that point in time. So the the timing was really uh interesting to kind of start, you know, right when we were on the come up a little bit.

Yeah, that's awesome. And I do want to talk through marketing versus advertising.

Yeah.

Like I feel like advertising is just like the old school kind of like madman way to say marketing, but like what how do you guys classify the difference between those?

Yeah. I think when you think about advertising, you know, another way to say that is paid media. It's just, you know, the the airspace on social media or connected TV or billboards or streaming or terrestrial radio like it's that air time. And yes, there needs to be creative to be put on those channels. Um, but marketing is a lot more holistic, right? I mean, you think about like digital and web and search and PR and crisis comes and brand and all these things like fall under that bigger bucket of how are we as a product or service communicating to our audience groups and it's the combination of all those things.

Yes, advertising is a big arrow in that quiver, but it's a lot more involved with that. So really for us, especially being a full service agency, we love the idea of saying, "Hey, uh, let's bring to bear all of these areas of expertise and make sure that you're telling a holistic story to your audience, not just on ad channels, but let's make sure your search is really sound. Let's make sure your digital ecosystem has a really smooth customer journey. And by the way, how about your brand?" Like, what is the thing that people instantly think about you the moment they think about you, right? Like what is that gut feeling?

and and what do all these touch points that your brand has, what are they all rolling up to? So that whole thing we would I'd say classify as marketing as opposed to, you know, the the singular channel of, you know, having a bunch of advertising mediums that you can

Yeah, that that makes sense to me. I like totally love the old school like Madison Avenue like madman type. Like that thing is so cool. Like old school advertising like like smoking some cigarettes and talking about

two martini lunch.

Yeah. two more and like talking about how you're going to like I don't know buy the back cover of whatever the magazine is or whatever. Okay. So your paths come together in 2020 right at a time we're not going to talk necessarily about like covid changing the world but just marketing in general over the last 5 years you know you talk about the rise of genai you talk about just all of these different things you know when you started intersection back in what 2009 2010 like that time frame so different you know how are full service how are you guys keeping up with trends and continuing to like learn more about like being the experts in something that's like you can't have two decades of Gen AI experience. You can't have a decade of Gen maybe, I don't know, but like the average person has like 10 months of experience when it comes to that kind of stuff.

Yeah, man. The AI thing ain't going anywhere. It's here to stay and it it's helpful. I think agencies get hired for creative brilliance. That's that's why agencies get hired. We don't get hired to do production work.

We do production work like little day-to-day sort of tasks and things like that. But I think AI can help out a lot more on those sort of deliverables. But, you know, if you're going to do something creatively creatively brilliant, I don't care what sort of expertise, you're going to have to prompt AI in an expert level fashion with years and years and years of experience to get anything close to something that could be pushed out live. So, for me, like I'm not intimidated by AI. I think we need to figure out how to fully maximize it so that some of these time-conuming, more productionoriented things can get done quicker. Um, but make no mistake, I think some of the more creatively brilliant things we have to do like rebrands, creative campaigns, complex web builds, crisis communications,

the hunt for the truck, like AI is not coming up.

Come on, baby. Yeah. Um, but those man those sort of things like I think you need human beings who have years and years of expertise uh who can do that. Now, can AI also accelerate the creative brilliance? 100% it can. We've just been trying to embrace that in like a lot of staff meetings. Our practice leaders are kind of like what is the last way that you have used AI to get one of your projects done quicker and better.

Wow. Well, I do think it helps with like not not being creative in a silo, like having something to bounce ideas back and forth before you go into the meeting and you're like, "Hey, what do you think of these ideas?" It's like, "Well, I kind of like already massaged them out a little bit." And then you come in there and like, "Hey, these are the three ideas or whatever." I do want to talk Tony if if creative brilliance right that is like the piece that sets agencies apart.

How do you sell on creative brilliance? Yeah, that seems uh kind of subjective a little bit and can be difficult to talk about like oh we I promise we just come up with good do you remember the hunt for the truck in my come on like that's what we we make big ideas happen. Yeah, I think it's uh it's a combination of before you get to that because we talked about spec work earlier, right? And and we don't want to do a ton of spec work. If we have a really good opportunity or really good idea, we will put it out there. But like you said, it is possible that people will take it and and use it without hiring us.

And so we we try to stay away from that. I think it's more on similar to the AI conversation, understanding the research that's done before the creative brilliance. I think that's where we can really set ourselves apart and that's how I'm really trying to differentiate us. There's a lot of agencies out there, right? There's a lot of agencies just here in Indiana. I mean, you don't count the ones in New York or Chicago or Texas or wherever that is.

So, for me, I think it's we always say success starts with strategy. And so, I always like to to talk to people about, hey, we're not just going to come in and throw some really good-looking creative at the wall. And you say, well, why'd you choose that option? It's like it looks great, doesn't it? It's like, hey, we researched, we used AI, we understand your industry, what you're trying to do.

I think for me, that is what I really lean on as I go talk to new prospects of we're going to take the time to do the research. We're going to take the time to use that to build a strategy and then we can show you our creative brilliance and we might tease that out a little bit, but for me, it's it's helping them understand that we're not going to necessarily just come in and say, "We're awesome at creative. I promise." And having 22 years of portfolio work helps too to where we can go to someone in a similar industry and say, "Hey, like this feels a lot like this campaign we did for Museum of the Bible or this feels a lot like something we did for Ruth's Chris or this feels a lot like something that we did for the Milwaukee Brewers." Right? So when you can do that, then it just kind of helps take this very subjective sort of thing, you're right on the money on that, and say we've done this before and like we're going to let the research and the strategy guide us, but we always say like we don't want to be creative for the sake of being creative.

We want to be creative so that you actually maximize whatever growth metric it is you care about because people actually don't want to pay for marketing.

They want to pay for maximizing their revenue, their impact, or their relevancy. So, at the end of the day, that's really all that matters.

It's the outcomes, right? Well, it seems to be working. I mean, eight years running, uh, part of the Inc. 5000 fastest growing private companies in America. The only company headquartered in the state of Indiana to put up eight years in a row. And in November, you'll learn whether or not they made it for a ninth consecutive year.

I don't know. I don't I don't know. If you're watching on YouTube, you can tell the answer from my face. Um, but I mean, it seems to be working, right? Creative excellence putting it together. But it's not just being creative for the sake of being creative. Talk to me about this growth phase the last eight years being one of the 5,000 fastest growing companies in America. That's crazy.

One of the best thing like the clients that we have are pretty dope. We have awesome awesome clients.

Well, talk about Okay, so 2017 that would have been the first year. Talk about like where in terms of like size of your business, where were you at and like how hard is it and how how big of a feat is that to to boast it eight years in a row? I think we ended up being number two on the IBJ Fast 25 in 2017 and we had a 3x jump

that year.

Okay.

Uh over the whatever the three-year um time frame. But the the big moment there was um we do a lot of work in like the enterprise faith-based space. Um that's just an area that we actually love sprinting toward because most agencies don't want to, you know, kind of intermix on some of that and, you know, we don't mind.

So, Museum of the Bible was actually the big turning point for us. This is like a half a billion dollar museum, like a Smithsonian level museum right in the heart of Washington DC. And we were actually going toe-to-toe with some big national agencies on that. And little old JDA um won it all. And that was kind of the big turning point. So we kind of had a lot of the stuff with like the Ark Encounter and the Creation Museum and some of those that kind of established us in those spaces. But when we got that one, that was one of the more high-profile ones that we've gotten. So, we just got this flood of client work because of the awareness around that and even like I would call it like purpose-driven leaders who would run, you could call it secular companies. They even saw it and were like, "Okay, those are the guys that we want to work with."

What advice? There's a lot of business owners that listen to the show, uh, that might find themselves in a room where they're going the David, not to be cliche, but the David and Goliath mentality there. and you're a smaller uh independent like privately owned agency here in Indianapolis competing against the big guys for work in DC. What advice do you have to win those? You know, Tony would know cuz he's the one winning a bunch of them. But I I think you know we're interesting, right?

Like we are not like small and local. Um we are also not one of these like publicly traded conglomerates. So we're we're interesting man because we're like this in between where we really try to punch above our weight class and you know we want to pursue kind of these like national category leading brands at the same time like man are there some awesome organizations here in town that we get the opportunity to represent. So like sometimes like when you know we're having those conversations here in town, we just kind of have to say, "Hey, like we want um the results that we produce to far outweigh maybe a little bit higher of a fee that we would charge, you know, compared to our our peers. But make no mistake, like we just want the results to speak for themselves. So like we get really obsessed with making sure the growth metrics that they care about most are the things that we measure.

and we're not doing this BS like vanity metrics thing like well look you had you know x number of clicks and it's like well so what like did donors give a bunch more money or did they not so we just try to really keep the main things the main things what you say

and I was going to say too sometimes against a bigger firm or or firms from out of state I think we we like to show people behind the curtain right like I'm bringing on our practice leaders our VP of brand our VP of digital our VP of strategy early in conversations before before a client's ever signed or anything like that because for me I just want them to see we're blessed with a really good team. We have really talented people but also just really good people and I think when someone gets in the door on a project for web or for brand or whatever that might be then they start to see okay wow they have all these other departments that are just genuinely good people that care about your business growing. I think we just be want to become an extension of your team regardless what industry you're in regardless what company you are and sometimes I think that gets lost. I I just think our accounts team is really good and I just think we want to become an extension of your team, not just a vendor, not just your marketing vendor.

We want to become your partner, your trusted advisor. And if you need help moving office space, yeah, we don't do that, but I guarantee we have someone that can and we'll introduce you to him.

Tony will roll up his sleeves and get in there, baby. Come. We just That's a differentiator for me. I think we just care about our clients and their business growing and we'll do whatever it takes, even if that means we have to partner with another agency on something, right? like we just we just want to see companies grow and I think that's the key.

Yeah. And I think that bringing the human aspect into those big conversations like at its core and now more than ever people want to work with people like people that they like. I always say it's like what I would I want to like would I enjoy grabbing a beer or a cup of coffee with this person and hanging out like those are the type of people that you want to do business with. And I I wonder if from a marketing agency perspective sometimes whoever the marketing leader for the organization they come in there and get like spoke at of like we're the foremost experts in this that and the other thing and what you've been doing is like not good and blah blah blah. It's like oh I don't want to like feel way to not win any project.

Yeah. Uh that that's really really interesting. Okay. So take from 2017 to this year 2025 been ripping on the Inc. 5,000 like give us a scope of what that means cuz cuz you can't just like increase by like 2% and make that list every year. It's got to be like pretty significant growth year over year over year.

And a lot of times I see especially uh my background was in tech. A lot of times it's like boom like you have a boom year and then it's like maybe you plateau or level out like you figure something out new product release boom you and it's not necessarily consistent growth year-over-year. I I think for us like it's been a combo of things like we have made some cool acquisitions like we acquired this uh very wellestablished full service agency in the Carolinas. They've been around for a long time. They had capabilities that were really synergistic with ours and they also had sectors that were really synergistic with ours. Like they do a ton of work in like state government and up to that point like we had never done a single government contract before and they had like a public affairs practice and more heavy on PR.

We had never really done that before. So, we did that. JDA also acquired a PR firm that was really synergistic with us. So, we did have some acquisitions that help with that growth, but like to your point, man, like acquisitions alone isn't going to do it. You do have to continue to grow like the organic revenue side of things. So, that combo of just saying, hey, like we are going to have steady organic revenue growth and make some really well done acquisitions, then you know, all of a sudden, there you go.

I do think that's a key too is is our goal is not to do a project and then you know we might not partner with them again. We we're really good at keeping clients around for a long time. And so I do think some of that growth while there was new clients that entered the fold in that 8year run, it's also been continuing to prove the results with our current clients to where then they're adding more to the to the pot to really keep this this train going

and just keeping them. I mean it is I mean the most client relationships are like 6 to 18 months and you know ours are like 6 to 18 years and I think that's the thing where we've been really really fortunate and blessed u to say hey like a lot of these clients have just been sticky for a long time. So

you know the the thing I'm you know Tony is constantly thinking about is like we want to continue to resign these clients but it's just like let's go get some net new ones as well. So it's that balance.

Chance when did you step into the CEO role? 2023 at the start of the year.

So just over two years.

Yeah, that's right.

Take us through your process of eight, nine years ago. You're like, I don't I don't want to join the family business. I don't want And I respect it because I is this like if you're a if you're a winner, if you're like a competitor, it's like, oh, I don't want to feel like it was handed to me. I don't want to feel like I just got this because of the excellent work that you're that my dad put in for the last, you know, 20 years or 40 years, right? How does that thought process work and shift and how did did it actually end up coming to the decision to continue to grow there?

My pride and ego weren't a part of it would be a lie because it absolutely was because to your point it's like you know first half of my career because of a lot of good blessing like you know we we were moving up and to the right you know career-wise and then you know the JDA opportunity comes and it's like I want it to be known that it's it not it wasn't handed right and it and it was earned. So yeah, you know, the the decision to do the uh CEO thing at JDA, like I initially said no and I was like no, like I told you like I I don't want to like kind of mix into this thing of like, you know, feeling like it was, you know, given or it wasn't earned or whatever the case may be. when we had that transition period of, you know, our current uh president, you know, moving on, uh I just kind of slid in with the JDA leadership team and I'm like, "Hey guys, look, um I want to be here for you as we start this search for a new CEO.

Like, tell me some of the qualities that you want in this individual and I'll make sure to go to bat forum for you guys as we're interviewing candidates and things like that." You know, sadly, it wasn't until like a couple members of the JDA leadership team are like, "Well, why don't you do it?" Mhm.

And it was like, well, our advisory board told me I should think about it. Our head of HR said I should think about it. You know, my dad encouraged me to think about it. And I told all of them no. And you know, I I hate that it kind of like took some of that external validation. Um, but honestly, man, like I've been more professionally fulfilled doing this than anything I've ever done because, you know, it's a good way to, you know, honor what my dad's built, but like we've had a couple really, really good years, too.

And that's been really fun to like kind of get off to a hot start. And it's it's not anything I've done. I mean, like the Lord's been great to our agency. And Tony said it, our team is really really good. Like we are rolling and we got every practice kind of with a good leader, fantastic clients. So um not a not a lot uh of credit goes to me, but um it's been a fun it's been a fun process.

Well, I think that's interesting um from both sides of the coin. So when I think about parents, I feel like every parent wants their kid to go up and be better and do bigger things, you know, and it's like if if you're a parent and you're you built a hundred million dollar business, like you want your kid to build a billion dollar business. And I do think that sometimes when uh the next generation steps into a family business, it's actually can become like stay on the treadmill and maintain like just don't you get so worried about not ruining what was built that you maybe get a little riskaverse or like you stop trying to grow and you're like oh we just need to like no one lost their job if we just do the same stuff we've always been doing. How do you balance like innovation and growth? And I think this would be hard conversations because you do have to go home at Thanksgiving and be like, "Hey, you know what?

We're actually gonna do something different and we're going to change it all up and like even though we've been doing this for 40 years and like it's been working for however long, like there's still ways to improve and grow and changes that need to be made."

Well, and and that's the thing, man. Like JDA has changed pretty rapidly. Like when I first got there in 2017,

we had like three monthly recurring clients

and today I think we have like 25 or 30

and you know you we got big project work and things like that but like our headcount and number of clients served has has grown. So like

it used to be everyone in the agency you got to sit around a table and problem solve.

Now there's a lot more delegation. You know we have to have a little bit more process and things like that. But you're right, and I think the the biggest thing that I wrestle with, and honestly for any of the agency owners out there, I'd love to grab a coffee or a beer and talk about it. It's like when do you hit the the point of saying like so what? Like keep growing revenue and headcount for what purpose, right? Versus like, you know, um we don't want to stay small. We don't want to get complacent. We don't want to have a a you know, scarcity mindset. But then at what point do we kind of say, "Hey, you know what? Like we have a really really good rhythm right now with clients and team and headcount." And the thing that we really try hard not to do is hire and fire people based on accounts and projects.

And you know, obviously on big swings up or down, you have to add or subtract. But like we've really tried hard to not do what a lot of agencies do, which is just like kind of treat people like Dixie cups where it's like, "Hey, we signed a five-month contract. It's it's done. you're out and we just don't want to do that. So that

adds a layer of complexity to it where it's like

how do we continue to have a growth mindset, have an abundance mindset, not get out over our skis, but then also not fall into this like staying small when there's a lot more opportunity there.

Yeah. Talk to me um about maybe the dynamic between you and your dad, right, as like this next generation comes and takes over and and really the balance of Yeah. like continuing to grow, have the abundance mindset, but also like

I mean whatever's been going on has been working. Like you can't say like, "Oh, we need to change everything." And like how your guys' dynamic may have changed or shifted or just been interesting conversations to navigate over the last couple years.

Yeah, it's good. I mean, the good thing for me and my dad is like we have a friendship in addition to, you know, me being a son. So, you know, the good thing is he's actually given me like a ton of freedom, uh, which has been great. I mean, he's operating, you know, significantly more at our parent company level and like JDA has really kind of been a fun opportunity to just take things and drive them. Um, it is nice to be able to pick up the phone or go over there and say, "Hey man, like this is happening. What do you think?" Or, "Hey, how are you reading this legal contract?" Cuz you know, you've probably read this line 95 times in your life and I'm reading it now for the second time. So, you know, the the good thing is there's an open line of communication there, which is great. And you know, I think his support for how we've had to,

you know, grow up and mature as an agency has been, you know, really great. And, um, you know, you can't beat wisdom

and he's got a lot of it. So, uh, we we got a lot of fire in our belly, but it's nice to be able to pick up the phone and, you know, just have those conversations.

Talk to us about what's coming down the pipeline for all things JDA, Prolific, all the fun things going on there.

Yeah, I think the biggest thing that we have going on is uh, the prolific growth summit. So about four or five years ago, you know, when I was um kind of launching the prolific brand as our CMO, we always had this idea of doing some sort of a growth conference. And the way it originally started is we were going to kind of do our own event. It was going to be kind of like a exclusive CEO business owner only by invitation event. And we were going to get a lot of speakers who were all things like business growth, free enterprise, that sort of a thing. And we had a really cool thing going.

We had Fox Business as like the national media access uh group. We had a great speaker lineup and we were going through all the things of like man for the first time we got to figure out how to actually like throw an event. But then toe at Elevate found out about our event and he's like hey man you guys are like a week before us. Why don't you just fold your event within ours? And you know for us it was like what a great idea like growth and innovation are really close cousins and they go hand in hand. So it's like why not just take over the main stage of Rally for day one and bring all these awesome speakers, right?

Like we have David Green, the guy who started Hobby Lobby. They give away like half a billion dollars every year of all their profits. They I mean the company's in a trust and they just like give all this money away um to to lobby.

Yeah, dude. it. I mean, it is a monster and man, what a what an abundance mindset that dude has to literally just be giving it all away.

So, we have them, we have Patrick Lion, we have an awesome lineup of a sports panel um with Rich Kalachi who's the chief revenue of the overtime, Jonathan Isaac, the power forward for the Magic, the CEO of Endava, which is a big innovation company in Britain. They represent the Phoenix Suns and they're doing incredible things on fan engagement. So like the Suns are lapping everyone on how to engage like the next generation of fans. Uh we have Heidi Cruz who's a Goldman Sachs uh exec. So we got this powerhouse lineup and Rally gets to enjoy some of those blue chip speakers and we get the benefit of a big Rally crowd, the stage, the production and some of that. So it was kind of like a match made in heaven.

But we're pumped for that. Uh I we're going to have a lot of really cool people uh speaking and we have some, you know, different events surrounding it as well. That's what are the dates on that?

September 24th uh is our right.

Yeah. So, so your guys's growth summit that's going to be on the 24th. That's a Wednesday. Thursday the 25th is the second day. Rally.

They do have some good ones too. Yeah. Kevin Ori is crazy. I didn't even

And that's a cool thing. You know, Rally had him in pocket, but he gets to start off the day and Fox Business will be there like broadcasting the thing live. So all eyes are going to be on Indie all across the country which is pretty cool. And then they're going to get to interview our speakers and toe and things like that. So it's it's a pretty exciting thing.

I feel like Indianapolis and we harp on this a lot on the podcast is just good about bringing together partners even if they're in different spaces like from the the marketing advertising side. Like I wouldn't say you guys directly even serve like venture capital like I mean that doesn't seem to be like your your top niche but like coming together and partnering with a VC

and then an advertising like prolific other things you're doing like I feel like that doesn't happen everywhere.

No it doesn't but it's one of the reasons I love Indie is like I think Indie is a two call town. You can get to just about anyone you need after two calls.

I really believe that and it just makes it really special. It's the biggest small town out there. And I think that's

something that's really cool about about us.

I I totally agree. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Roots Reality Co. the absolute best real estate team here in central Indiana. Listen, if you're looking to buy, sell, or invest in real estate. You need people who actually care about our Indiana community. That's Tyler and Max over at Roots Reality.

These guys aren't just slinging houses. They're building communities, helping people find homes that actually fit their lives, and making the whole process way less stressful. They're not some big corporate machine. They're real people who know Indiana inside and out. Whether you're a first-time buyer, an investor looking for your next deal, or just trying to get top dollar for your home, these guys have the expertise and the hustle to make it happen. They're out here doing great work, not just in Indianapolis, but all across central Indiana and beyond.

So, if you're in the market or even if you're thinking about it, hit up Tyler Max at rootsreality and they'll take good care of you. Check them out at rootsreality. co or meet them in person at one of their upcoming investor master classes. More details on their website, rootsability. co. Let's get back into it.

You guys have, you know, in 2020 moved downtown, right? Where was your office at before then?

Caramel.

You up in Caramel?

Yeah. We had always had kind of like a satellite office mentality where we had like small offices in like Traverse City and St. Simon's Island and the Carolas, Atlanta, and then we got really serious about our space and kind of centralized a lot more here in Indie.

And you ended up getting a space downtown. Uh, I mean, like a block off the circle.

Yeah. O tower.

Yeah. 25th floor.

I remember Tony brought me in and this was another moment we're like, "Dang, Tonyy's got cool jobs." Like we went from WNBA Courtside to like this awesome space up on the 24th floor.

25th.

25th floor.

Uh and yeah. So talk to us about just the culture of building a business in downtown Indianapolis and the community, how important that is. Uh because obviously, you know, it's no shocker out there. Indianapolis has changed a little bit over the last 6 years and a lot of people that were signing leases in 2019 like got a little bit of a different product in 2020 and beyond and how you guys are thinking about and how the city is working to revitalize downtown a little bit.

Yeah, I mean the reason we decided to move downtown is because of the 2019 version of Indie. Like you go down and there's a lot of events going on. Obviously no one in the country does sports better than we do um being the great host city that we are. So, we saw that and we're like, let's let's get in on that. And you know, the other thing, too, like being in a high-rise, being downtown, it actually, I think, leveled up the way we as an agency just operated. Like, we were, I think, a little bigger and bolder and just how we thought about ourselves, how we recruited, and some of those things.

But, yeah, man. Like, there are beautiful things about downtown and there are tough things about downtown. Like, a lot of the things that, you know, a lot of people in town are talking about, you know, they're real. um you know just in terms of like walking you know two or three blocks here to there it's it's tough and you know your heart goes out for you know those situations but we want to see them solve too or at least progress but you know um I think I saw something on LinkedIn that like you know there's no awesome suburbs without a thriving city center

and you know we want Indie to be that like it was before and you know it is an an awesome town but it's it is an interesting dynamic we want to be there we're invested in there. We moved down there for a reason.

I think it's interesting too uh given remote work culture and it's like even if you're 4 days in the office, one day remote, like that's a 20% decrease in lunches, you know, that's a 20% decrease in foot traffic and parking garages and you know just people in general. And it can make it interesting to uh and I don't know I don't I'm not like an economist or whatever but I think there is some definite correlations to having 20% less daily foot traffic in downtown of makes it what it is today.

Yeah. And I think that's honestly like on the low side. I mean you know a lot of the hybrid or more fully remote I mean you know for us like we're we're pretty locked in on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. We have people, you know, especially me and Tony on the Wednesdays and Fridays as well, but a lot of the companies that we bump into, there are very few of them who are four or even five um all in the office.

Few like Tuesdays, Thursdays we come in. Yeah.

And it's like that's a

that's rough for them. I mean, imagine, you know, being a a store owner in downtown that relies on that. So

like Cubs, imagine being Cubs. Like that's like right below they is awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. Great little spot. But it's like if you go from 2019 getting I don't know a hundred cups of coffee in an hour, you know, in the mornings because you had so many people that were walking right by want to pop in to 60.

Yeah, that's a huge decrease. And then it's tough to like get good staffing, tough to like make the whole the whole economics of a thriving downtown work. I am interested to see as like the revitalization of Circle City or Circle Center Mall and like some different creative ideas how those come together to make because obviously there are still downtowns that are thriving and Indianapolis is not like not doing well. Like obviously we're still hosting the biggest events, you know, WNBA Allstar, I mean NBA All-Star, all these cool things have come to town and I will be intrigued to see what creative solutions uh start to pop up in in downtown to keep and retain these businesses that are down there.

Yeah, I mean you nailed it. Like we do such a good job and there are awesome places. I mean like go down to Bottle Works like

walk down Massav like that and and the same developer who did Bottle Works is doing the Circle Center project, right? So, I mean, there's stuff a lot of good stuff happening around the circle. I mean, there are really cool things down there and, you know, just continuing that momentum. I think you're right. There there's there's a ton to do.

We're going to give a little bit of free input. Obviously, they already have the plans for made, but have you guys been to Kansas City? Have you guys ever been?

It's been a little while.

Okay. They have the Power and Light District in Kansas City, and it's like this it's like a big circle. Like, there's businesses all around the outside of it and bars and all this cool stuff. And they have like an awning and a giant it's almost like Midtown Caramel with an awning.

Okay.

And I just like downtown Indie needs that because like they you can put heaters on and in the winter you can watch stuff and I can just I can just envision like Colts games and stuff like that down there. So Power and Light District Kansas City if someone that has some type of power, you know, hears make that happen. I do want to talk about OB you guys are advertising marketing experts. This show is all about the state of Indiana. M if you were appointed the CMO of the state of Indiana, what kind of campaigns would you be running? What are some of these this what's some creative excellence that we can give out to the state of Indiana completely? We don't care if you we want you to take this. This is free advice. What would you guys be doing as the state of Indiana or what are other states that you see that are doing really cool things to market them?

The the one I got to give credit where it's due. Phil Daniels uh and I and I think DNF was there too. We were just talking about like what indie can be known for and like Phil said it he's like we're the host city.

Mhm.

And it's like that's brilliant. Like if you think about all the things that go into that like we host the biggest sporting event in the world with the 500. We host tons of conferences and events with the uh convention center. We have one of the best, easiest, most accessible airports in the country. We are sports obsessed and we host sports better than anybody. I'm telling you, man, this who's your hospitality thing, I don't care what anybody says. It is real. Like people around here are really nice

and just this idea of being like the best hosts that you could ask for, I think is really good. So, I think that one is good. I think the speed city thing is really interesting, too. I haven't thought about it a ton. Indianapolis being the host city, that's money. The the one thing I like about Speed City is that it's kind of sexy. Like host city, you we got to find some we got to massage the wording on that cuz host city isn't necessarily like like I the mentality of it. What it means is 100% Indiana. Like that is so true. Like we we are like the place like we'll welcome you with open whatever your thing is like we'll be just as excited about your thing as you are you know whether it's WM Allstar or the firefighter convention.

But man it's also like there's also a pragmatism too as well. Like I think sometimes in marketing you want to chase all the fancy things and you get too cute in terms of like all this kind of stuff. You know the other thing

the cost of living here is really reasonable. There is a lot of fun stuff to do. This is an awesome awesome environment to start a business. There's this really cool report called rich states poor states that American Legislative Exchange Council does. Indiana's like ranked third on that.

So this is an awesome place to do business. It's a great place to live. It's safe. you know, you get these Midwestern family values. Like there's a pragmatism uh to our state and to our city, too, that I think is also great. So, there's a lot going for us and I just think that that's something that, you know, oftentimes gets overlooked.

Rich Statesorstates.org economic outlook rank. Indiana is currently ranked third in the United States for its economic outlook. This is a forward-looking forecast based on the states standing in equal weighted average in 15 important state policy var variables. That is wild.

Yeah, man.

I really do think Indianapolis is one of the most underrated cities in the country. It mean I feel like it's been that way for a while and and obviously Caitlyn Clark and and the run the Pacers had this year has helped uh put us on the map a little more. But I I love it and I do like the speed city. I mean, we've been talking to Matt Menram a lot more doing some stuff with the chamber and I'm really excited to see that go live because I think there's so many there is a unique meaning to that outside of just IMS, right? Yeah, that's what's exciting

and that's what they talk about too where it's like talk about speed of your career, speed of buying a home, speed like speed and it's just like I just get the um Talladega Nights like hot nasty badass speed. Like that's just come on baby. Like it's it's it is a piece like you can and I say impact too when I think of Indianapolis it's like if you are driven by impact and you want to make a difference in your community like this is the place you can I mean I don't know like six years ago I didn't know anybody here and now I've like found my way into hosting a podcast that just promotes the state of Indiana because I just like wanted to make an impact. So, I do think the like speed, the host mentality, the like the host with the most like that. I don't know. There's some stuff to massage out there.

Yeah, we love that word impact. I mean, I love that you said that because that for us, I mean, Chance mentioned it briefly earlier, but when you think of growth for us, it's it's obviously revenue. Everybody wants to grow revenue, right? But we love working with the organizations, the cities, the states that want to also just grow that impact. that's our favorite clients is because that can that will bring revenue along 99% of the time. But when you're really trying to make an impact in in your industry or in your world or in your, you know, state or city or country, that that's where we really run to those type of clients.

We've come to a sponsored segment of the show. This question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homejart.com. My question for you, gentlemen, why do you call Indiana home?

Well, I mean, the nice thing is born and raised here, right? I've never lived outside of the state of Indiana, which I love. Um, but I never really wanted to. You know, I think for me, like we've been talking about, the opportunity for growth is endless in in this state and especially in Indianapolis, but really across the state. I mean, you see so many thriving areas of Indiana. I love, you know, I I grew up two and a half hours north and go back all the time and and love it. And I just think what you've been doing, too, is highlighting some of those small areas across the state. And they're so underrated, man. There's so many underrated areas. But for me, I just think

Chance said it perfectly, too. The two call mentality like that. I mean, I kind of fell into networking back when I was 23, 24. And you're right. I mean, it it is you can go six years later and have a massive network of relationships. And so, I love Indianapolis. Like I said, I think it's the most underrated place in in the country and uh don't plan on leaving anytime. So,

I love it.

Good cost of living, good place to run a business. You know, the other fun thing about it, too, is I've heard this described by a couple people that Indie is this rare combo of access and opportunity. You have access to a lot of movers and shakers for sure like two call town but there are big things happening around here too. So like usually you get one of the two like in Silicon Valley tons of opportunity no access right it's like I'm not going to go get lunch with Mark Zuckerberg.

Um if I wanted to get lunch with the mayor of Topeka Kansas could probably get that done but maybe there's not as much of a you know thriving ecosystem uh in a market like that. But like in indie man, it's like this rare combo of like big things are happening and there's access too. So I think that that's a cool dynamic. And I'm with Tony like there's a lot of fun stuff going on. Especially if you like sports. I mean man, what a great sports town dating all the way back to the Panam games and the fact that we have all these, you know, professional sports leagues and a great um college atmosphere for sports, too. So especially if you like sports, I mean, what a town.

Yeah. I mean, we're going to host the final four in 2026. And I love that you talked about the Pan Games. I had Milt Thompson. Do you guys know Milt? He was like the original general counsel for the Pan Games. I believe it was general counsel. So he This is like 1984 I think.

I think so.

1984 in the 83 basically they had to convince Cuba to be a part of the painting to make it like an official full games. Right. So Mill, this is the 80s, postc cold war is like one of the first Americans that went into Cuba

to like talk to

Castro and like convince them to be part of Dude, go back listeners out there, go listen to that episode with Mil Thompson. It was crazy how the Pan Games came to be, how Indianapolis hosted it, and it really did set us off on this like I think at the time it was like they want to be amateur sports capital of the world. Kind of achieved that goal. Now it's uh women's sports capital of women's and girls sports uh which I love and and obviously the host city. Amazing. That is the Panon Games. It's a crazy episode. He tells some wild stories.

Yeah, I I need to go listen to that one because a lot of the Indie OG people that I know about I mean everyone talks about Jim Morrison or Jim Morris, but the Panama games being such a pivotal turning point for some of those things, you know, learning more about that would be pretty cool.

I love it. Okay, we've come to some rapid fire questions where we're just going to shoot through and talk Indiana things. Uh I feel like I know what both of your answers are going to be for this one, but favorite Indiana coffee shop.

I I probably have to say cups probably from the last five years of just I've just they're Friday blueberry cinnamon flavor. Best one every Friday.

Blueberry crumble all the way. I mean Pachu, too. That's not technically a coffee shop, but I mean you can't you can't miss there,

dude. Another We had Martha on the pod. She has a heck of a story. She's just like she's so sharp. She's like an economist basically. Like she had an an economics undergrad degree and started a restaurant and she's like ran that thing incredibly well. That's an awesome one. Okay. Best local event in Indie that you never miss.

Rev.

Rev.

Rev's awesome. Is there a better month than May in the state? No way. And Rev, man, is a really, really cool way to kick it off.

There is no better place to be. Like Indie, May and Indie or Indie and May is the best month in any city anywhere. I'll put it toe to toe. Like they're like March or April in Chicago or March in No. Not the same. No.

Indianapolis May is there's just an energy. I just like I like pick the speed limit up on my car like 5 miles an hour just cuz it's May, baby. We got to go fast.

Uh Tony,

I would probably agree with that. I mean, it's uh that's a tough one to beat. I mean, Zubilation's great as well. Uh, big fan of that. But yeah, I think Rev Rev takes

we we gota shout out our friends at Demar the Demar Galas getting to be pretty dope, too.

Great one.

Um, they had they had Dana Carvey and David Spade there last time. They brought the house down. Yeah. And man, talk about a cool organization, too. Dayar.

Yeah.

What do they do?

They help like the most severe cases of kids and adults with developmental disabilities.

Like the the ones that are really really tough and they are kind of throughout the entire state. I think they're expanding to, but um Jim Dalton, Anderson Grad, and Jenny Peters, they are fantastic people. And I mean, you just think about like they have this line about like all people are remarkable.

And it's like, man, some more of that in my veins, right? And they just go toe-to-toe for those folks and they're they're awesome.

I love that. Football guys, where's the best place to watch a football game in the state of Indiana?

That's got to be the Butler Bowl on the Don Benbo 50 yard line, baby.

Yes, sir. I love that. The Butler Bowl is Butler is unfortunately does not have a football culture. Like I feel like it's I mean it's a basketball like I mean Dep D3 is like on their schedule. That was the most fun game.

Dude, the Mon on Bell game.

Yeah,

there it is.

That's the that's the actual answer to that.

You talking like a stadium or you talking like a bar? I don't know. Where do you like to watch football tone?

I obviously played at trying. I think what they've done up at at uh the stadium up there is fantastic. I try to get back once a year. But just thinking from the go with, you know, with the buddies and go watch a game like District Tap up by up in Keystone area is money.

There's a lot of TVs in there.

Yeah, they they just do a good job.

Okay, I respect that.

But if you've not gone to Mon Bell game,

Yeah.

people don't understand how fun that is.

Even if you don't have a dog in the like in the or in the race or whatever, like it is incredible. It's like two D3 schools turn into like a small D1 atmosphere and it's electric

and an awesome tailgating scene, too. Go to both sides, too. Go see one in Green Castle and go see one

Absolutely. And I say like we have just as much if not more fun when they're in Crawfordville. Like it it's a vibe. The whole thing is fun. Yeah. You got to Mon Bell games got to be on everyone's uh Indiana bucket list there. Speaking of Indiana bucket list, favorite Indiana weekend getaway.

French Lick is incredible, especially for any golfers listening. I mean, you know, Sultan's Run is my favorite golf course in the entire state. Like if the fort and French like Pete die had a kid, that's Sultan's Run. And where where else in the world are there like fivestar hotels like literally in the middle of nowhere? I mean, it is really cool. And you know, it's it's a fun 36-hour trip, I think.

Yeah. I really like Brown County. Go down to Brown County. You got Hard Truth down there. And then go in the fall, right? Gets a little cooler. They got all the vendors out there, all the you wine tasting, little knickknacks, big woods. I mean, it's we we do it every every October.

You know, one thing, too, like do a station in downtown Indie. Like Kyler and I, she and I have been doing that like once a year and like do all the things that you tell your friends to do. Like get a hotel, go up to 1933, go to Blue Beard, like go down Massav, like you can I mean it's actually fun to like be a tourist in your own town, like go to a game, too. So, we've been trying to do a little bit of that.

I feel like Yeah. Get a spot at like Bottle Works Hotel. Yeah, that place is nice. Yeah. Okay, final question on this one. What is your favorite Indiana sports memory?

I think it was like 2015. You're going to have to cover your ears tone. So, we had like an ice storm in Indie and this was when um the Crossroads Classic was still a thing. And Butler played IU and at the last minute we decided to Uber down to it. uh Kyler and I and two of our closest friends and uh that was I Butler beat him. Keyn Martin hit a fall away three and gave him one of these at the end of it.

Yes.

And because it was so crappy out, we just stayed out until like 2 a.m. until like the conditions kind of, you know, slowed down. But that was a pretty electric atmosphere, uh being at that game.

Yeah. The cross cuz the Crossroad Classic used to be IU Butler Notre Dame Purdue.

Purdue. Yeah.

Electric. Bob Knight comes back for the first time before he passed. And that was again, I didn't grow up a massive IU fan. I grew up up in Notre Dame country, but became working there for five years. And just seeing that place, the emotion, him being at Center Court with Isaiah and all that kind of stuff. That was pretty that was pretty awesome.

How when what year?

So that would have probably been 20 that was 18 or 19. 2019, I think, was when he came back for the first time in in you know, however many years. and uh all the players came back and uh it was a crazy atmosphere. It was against Purdue I believe and it was when Archie was coaching we lost which was a real bummer but uh that that just that feeling during halftime when he walked out there was pretty awesome. It's kind of like how I feel sometimes when you know one some of like legacy Colts players are back and I never really like know if it's going to be like a Ring of Honor game or anything like that but it's like they walk you know

T Glenn out or you know Peyton Panny's out there giving a speech and it's so cool like there's just like a piece of like it's got similar to Reggie in the in the playoffs this past run. It's like he's out

seeing him courtside with all his teammates jerseys on. What a cool thing.

So so fun. Tony, I do have to ask, when did you graduate from So Tony's from Napony? He went to Northwood High School. When did you graduate

from high school? Yeah. 2010.

Oh, so you you might have been a freshman. Were you an eighth grader on the Black Crunch team?

So I was an eighth grader, which was real tough.

You have to People love this story. Can we tell Can you tell the story of the Black Crunch

of just the that year?

Yeah, that team.

So it would Yeah, I've been in eighth grade. I mean, we had a freshman quarterback uh who was just very blessed. He was already like 6'2. Um, but must be nice.

I mean, just we went three and six in the regular season.

So, in the regular season, you guys only won three games,

correct? So, in Indiana, everybody makes the playoffs, right? Other states, fight me on that. Uh, but I think it makes sense. And we had a really, really great senior class. They were a little bit of troublemakers, but they were really talented. Um, and I think it just took the whole regular season for them to realize that this was their last run. and uh they finally kind of pulled it together and went on a 6 and0 playoffs run. Come down to Luca to uh it was the uh the dome at that point actually. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So came down after going three and six went on a six-game win streak and played state against Chitaard and won seven nothing with the freshman quarterback. First ever football state championship for Northwood. So

after a three six season

with a freshman quarterback. Yeah. 14-year-old.

It's insane.

Like I just So Triton, my high school, we were not so good at football, but I feel like every year a coach would say like Northwood in '06 only won three regular season games. We we went one and nine every season until my senior year. We had won two games. Uh my senior season like we can pull this off just like they did back in ' 06. Never.

It was a pretty cool run. It was lots of fun.

There you go. I had to get the Black Crunch story in there. I love it.

Um final three questions of the day, gentlemen. And this is what we ask every single person who comes on the show. First one, what is something the world needs to know about Indiana?

It's a great place to start a business. It's a great place to live. It's friendly.

It's an underrated golf state. I think that that is something that the the country does not talk about enough. I mean, Chance already mentioned French Lick, Victorian National up in Northwest. I mean, Sultan's Run or Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah, sorry. Uh and then uh Sultan's Run. I mean, Cadam Hills, what they're doing lives coming in next month. Like, there are so many

The Purdue courses are really incredible.

Yeah. The

Well, yeah, the Notre Dame course hosts like uh LPJ, senior LPJ, maybe something like that. Like,

there's I mean,

tons of good golf.

Yeah.

So, I just underrated golf state.

Uh, next question.

We're you're going to shine some light on something more people need to know about. Uh, well, Chance and then Tony Chance. What is a hidden gem in Indiana?

71st in Keystone. Wasen Jenny Paywan. It's an Indonesian place. It is really, really good.

71st in Keystone.

Yeah. Wasan Jenny Paywan. It's right next door to the Rook, which by the way, awesome dive bar. But it's good, man. Really good reviews.

That is a I no one I don't know anyone who's ever said that.

And you can go next door to uh the Rook

afterward.

Now that that is a true hidden gem right there.

That whole area, man. Like Capri is really good. KSR moved up there. So

Sakura is right there. Whenever anyone says 71 in Keystone, they usually say Sakura because it's it's fire sushi. Really good. I have never heard of this, but I'm going to add it to my list and I'm going to go.

There you go.

Tone.

I'm going to go a little broader, but Story Indiana. I don't know if you've have you heard of Story Indiana.

Story in.

So yeah, that uh like I said, we go to Brown County. It actually started in 20 when I got the job with Prolific and JDA. My wife took me to Brown County for the day and then on the way home she's like, "Let's stop in a story." And uh it is the coolest little town. I mean, you there's a there's a tavern in the basement of the inn. I mean, people are riding their horses. There's a horse there's a horse dock. They're riding their horses in. There's cowboys.

That's not That's not new for music. True. I mean, we went to the grocery store in Epony and there was horses and buggies everywhere. But, uh, it was just cool to like interact, see it. Uh, we didn't do all the things, but you can stay there. Live music. Just a cool just a cool little place that no one

Craig Hughes from the owner of St. Elmo. He raves about the story in and he raves about how awesome that it is.

So, yeah, check it out. Go down there.

That's a good one. Final question. This is where we source new guests and learn about people that are doing amazing things.

Who's a Hoosier that we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things. Dante Cook. I don't know if you've ever had him on or or you need to, but uh he's got his hands in absolutely everything. I was very blessed to meet him through Edge Mentoring back in the day that Dave was part of and then we coached middle school football for two years together and then launched the program at Purdue Polytenic High School together and coached with him for three years there. And uh he's got his hands in 500 things. He's a dad of four kids. Uh, and he just, uh, he he is going to do great things. He already is, but uh, I really look up to Dante and and, uh, think he he just is everything that Indianapolis and Indiana is and stands for and not being from here, which I think is pretty cool.

Heck yeah.

Yeah. Jay Height. So Jay leads Shepard Community Center. They are on mission to eradicate poverty on the east side of Indie. And what a guy. I mean, they kind of thread the needle of like really wanting to be, you know, for that neighborhood, with tons of different things with with church, with daycare, with the school, with basic needs, uh, professional development, the whole nine yards. And Jay has just been a catalyst for that neighborhood for a long time. and they're just an awesome place to send your team to volunteer or to get involved and um you know helping a an underserved neighborhood. So Jay's been doing it all his life and man that guy's got some really cool stories just about some of the progress and you know tough things that you know they deal with. But uh they're on mission man and they're fantastic people.

Jay Height. Yeah.

His only downfall is uh he's a Reds fan and not a Cardinals fan. So if Jay you're listening to this, just remember I said that.

I love that. We're going to have to dive in more into what Shephard Community Center is doing. Scott Lingal, if you guys know Scott from Remodel or was it Remodel Health now, High School Hustle? He talks really highly of Shepard Community Center. So

yeah, there's another one for the pod. That guy is dynamite.

Yeah, he rocks. Uh gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for sharing the story uh from oh my gosh hunt for the truck back in 2010 and my uh all the way to all the amazing things y'all are doing with uh JDA with prolific like all the cool stuff come the growth conference coming up September 24th.

Yep.

Don't miss it. First day of rally you're going to have some amazing speakers there. Growth conference uh downtown convention center.

Yep.

Sweet. Uh if people want to connect with you, if they want to find you, if they want to get coffee, how can they do that?

Got to hit the LinkedIn, right? M

that jdawa worldwide.com I think it's we're on there uh that we just launched a new site this year which has been fun. Um but you probably know somebody who knows one of us. So I'll

call Nate Spangle. Yeah, do that.

We could just give Tony a cell phone number. I'll

There we go. And I'll clip that and put it out like everyone call this number.

There you go.

I love it. Jents, keep up the good work. Appreciate you having on and we'll talk soon.

Thanks brother.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Get In. If you like what you heard, make sure you leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all of my gear recommendations at sweetwater.com. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being part of what makes the Hoosier State great. We'll see you next time here on Get