not doing things you're not great at. You know, branding and these like high stakes creative campaigns. That's what we do best. Got the advice from one of my great friends. When are you going to quit dabbling? Real talk, right?
It was I was like the side hustle demon. 80 different collaborators, photographers, writers, designers, artists to tell the story through their perspective. How do you balance expanding and taking on new business versus staying hyperfocused on what you're exceptional at? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hooser State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. If you've been craving a change of scenery, Wobbash County is worth a drive.
Tucked into northeast Indiana, Wabash County is the kind of place where a simple day trip turns into something more. You can paddle the river, wander scenic trails, shop small, enjoy great local food, and discover experiences that feel relaxed, welcoming, and a little unexpected. It's easy to make a day of it here. Spend the morning outdoors, explore downtown shops and local favorites in the afternoon, and catch live entertainment, or a special event before heading home. Whether you're looking for outdoor adventures, small town charm, or a new place to explore, Wabash County makes it easy to get away without going far. Start planning your trip at visitwabashcount.
com. That's visitwabashcounty. com. Wobbash County. It's worth the drive. Now, let's get into the episode.
My guest today is Jenn Schimmelpfennig, and she is the founder and president of Pivot Brands, an Indianapolis based agency that she launched in 2006. She's a proud Notre Dame graduate, and she blends strategy and storytelling to help organizations find their voice and create meaningful impact. She's worked with some of the most popular brands in the Hooser State like No Mean City, Indie Welcomes All, Visit Bloomington, Metazoa Brewing, Butter, Fine Art Fair, The Studs, and the Indianapolis International Airport. You've definitely heard of that. One of the, no, the best airport in the country. She's focused on work that people can truly believe in and rally behind.
And in 2020, Jenn was named to the IBJ 40 under 40. We're so excited to talk all things starting your business early. I believe Jenn was 25 when she started Pivot. Jumping in there. If there are aspiring entrepreneurs listening to this, you're going to get a plethora of information and, you know, maybe you'll just this could be the the final domino to get you to take the risk. We're going to talk about marketing verse brand, how business owners can be thinking about really developing their their story and and crafting their brand.
And then we're going to talk about uh the identity of a city and a state and and the brand of Indiana. So Jenn, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I I mean I am pumped after I learned that if anyone has been driving around there's billboards, there's great marketing for Bad Dad Brewing and it's like a a dad in his underwear and it's just like the most dad beer ever and you're like, "Oh yeah, we did that." And I was like, "Oh, I'm a big fan of your work."
So we're already starting off on a good foot there. But what we want to begin with is in 2006 you were 25 and you took what had to have been one of the biggest risks in your life at the time and you started pivot marketing. Tell me about the the culmination that led you up to taking this risk to a life of entrepreneurship. I think I always wanted to run a business from a very young age. We lived in the region and he worked in Chicago and he took me to work with him a couple times and like u he worked for Payne Weber at a stock broker and what was the commute? What was the commute from the region into Chicago for you guys?
Um he would just take the train. Um that's nice. So not bad. Yeah. Um the old Southshore. Yeah.
Oh there you'll see some characters on the Southshore for sure. Uh so he was riding the train into he was a stock broker. Yes. So, um, from a young age, he was very encouraging to me of like, hey, yeah, you can be in in business. And I went to work with him once when I was like four years old and went up to the top of the um, Payne Weber building. And I think I was hooked from that moment of like, I want to be in business.
I want to be in charge of my own destiny. I think this is really a good podcast to talk about that because Indiana allowed me to do that in Indianapolis specifically, maybe younger than I would have elsewhere. I would just encourage other young people to not wait. you mentioned, you know, hey, how did you take the risk? How did you get um the courage to take the risk? I actually think you have less to risk when you're in your 20s.
I mean, you're you're not usually married yet. You don't have kids. Like, you don't have a mortgage. Um so, I think it's actually easier. You don't know what you're getting into. Yeah.
Amen to that. But you're not really giving up that much. It's like for you, you end up, you know, growing up in the region. What high school? I went to Hamilton South Eastern. Oh, go Royals.
Come on now. But then you end up going back up north to go to Notre Dame. Yes. Right. So, you get your under and it's like, you know, you're talking about risk. It's like, well, I mean, let's say your business does fail.
You're falling back on a Notre Dame degree. Like, someone's going to hire like a Notre Dame graduate. So, like, you know, you have that going for you. But when you graduate from Notre Dame, what do you end up doing? And and what's like your first uh career? Actually, back here, it was right after 911.
So, I graduated 2002, maybe 9 months after 9/11. So, the job market was really tough at the time. Um, and a lot of things were really tough and I think people were kind of coming back to family and um, so I came back home right after school and then um, started working for a company called Print Resources. They're now called Tactive. That's crazy. Uh, I love the crew over at Tactive.
They are they're awesome. They're like expanding over there in that like near west side as well. Wow. Okay. So, got the start at Print Resource. I was like employee number four there.
Just great bosses who were very empowering and also just saw something in me. um early. I also just kept raising my hand for more responsibility. They had an art gallery. I in the studs building that they operated too. I decided, hey, I can do that.
You know, I can run the art gallery. They asked me to be the marketing director. Sure, I'll be the marketing director. I was kind of figuring it out. It was a great place to work and to learn. But I think for me, you know, at the time they were printing company and like not like necessarily uh today when people like there's like cool printing and you know there's like oh yeah put your logo on a North Face jacket like this is like old school like signs, banners and shirt.
Were they doing shirts at the point? I don't even know. Yes, they had just started doing that. They were like print brokers so it was a little bit different but um yeah it was still very um down and dirty. I don't even know. I mean 200, you know, this would be 2004, five time like I know one of their big accounts was they started working with Exact Target and Salesforce and they were doing like the crazy cool swag boxes like Tactive is so known today for those like awesome tactile experiences that come in the mail.
Like I don't know if in 2004 they were sending out like you know you get a drone in the mail or whatever from your Salesforce uh whatever their big user conference is called. Yeah, we started doing that and actually we started doing it for um print resources at the time. It was originally like an internal marketing initiative when we were sending out those like cool kits and things. So it was pre um exact target salesforce um but we were still incubating some of those things and that was really fun. I think for me what's frustrating about printing or something like that is it's very downstream. So, the strategyy's already been decided.
Um, the brand has already been figured out. So, for me, it was like I was that annoying employee who's like, "Why are we printing a postcard? Is that even what's going to solve their problem?" They're probably like, "Just print the freaking card, then like just decide to print the card. Quit asking all these questions." Um, but thankfully, they weren't like that, my bosses, Tim and Kurt.
Instead, they encouraged me like, "Hey, if you think there's a better strategy here or like if there are certain clients who um would be willing to go through a strategic process with you, go for it." So, I actually built up a book of business within their business that was brand strategy, identity, campaign. That's pretty cool. And for them to have um the trust in you, cuz here's the thing, you know, by the time it gets to printing, it's basically like a a purchase war. It's basically money in the bank. It's like don't rock the boat.
Just get this thing out the door. We'll collect our invoice. We'll make money. Everyone will get paid and we'll move on. And for them to have the confidence in in you to say, "Okay, I know that we have this like current revenue stream coming in, but we're going to allow you to go back up and try to like, you know, innovate at the top of the chain there." That's that's like a pretty uh cool opportunity for leaders to give you.
Very unusual. I found, you know, at the time I don't think I knew how unusual and special it was. Um, but now I do, now I really see how unique they were and are. They've done that for other people, too. Um, and when it came to thinking about, you know, brand, I mean, this is by this point probably 2005, 2006. Like, what were you doing that was groundbreaking or different from what they were doing on their by themselves?
Starting much more with strategy. You know, what makes this brand special? Who are they trying to communicate with? How do we distill that into a idea? Who was the first brand that you got to go in there? Like as like Yeah, for some reason our printing partner is sending in Jenn to talk about our strategy with us like where were you what meeting were you sitting in where you got to like kind of pitch some ideas and go through strategy?
There was a company called Eden Collaborative that was a landscape architecture firm. Um several were actually kind of tangentially also design businesses. So like architects um landscape architects, some other nonprofits. there were different folks who would allow me to kind of do that to get in there and play around essentially. Um I also wasn't charging very much so I think it was it was kind of like low risk. Yeah.
Somebody just went on price like oh yeah sure whatever. Yeah. Let her play around with it and then they found oh hey this this works. It's actually working. Um like print resources grew 50% three years in a row when I was the marketing director and other people were looking at that and going what are these interesting you know things that she's doing? What is she figuring out?
Where was the first time that you had an idea for either brand or campaign that then you saw out in the world that worked and and like people just came back to you, your customers came back raving. Yeah. The best probably early example of that was and we still work with them today is green cycle um mulch which I you know it's like um I remember the very first meeting I had and I also would say never um make assumptions you know don't assume they first reached out it was like hey we're a mulch company or we're a landscape company he said you know and we're doing organic recycling okay we want to see what you could maybe do for us to help us um grow our retail business you could assume like oh it's mold How exciting could that be? Actually, it's turned out to be one of our most fun, most interesting clients over the years. So, above us is the company Neighbor Surf. They have their office up there.
And Dan Hannerhan, one of when he left the tech world, he started uh Hollster, which was a mulch company like Uber for mulch. Very interesting. They would like deliver mulch on demand. And one day he pitched the b the economics of mulch to like some tech investors. Not saying that it was mulch, just being like, "Yeah, we get recurring like by annual revenue, you know, spring, fall, blah, blah, blah, blah." Like, and it's like, "This is our, you know, margin, the whole nine yards."
And they were people ready to write checks. And then they were like, "What's the business?" And he's like, "Oh, it's mulch." But the economics of mulch are very similar to software. You need it every year. It's like the whole nine yards.
It's a very smart business. And um very lucrative and and also just um great people. There's great people to work with up there. Um John Repening is one of the owners. I think what we were able to do for them, I know what we were able to do for them was they didn't have any retail customers when we started with them. They were purely commercial.
Okay. So they were selling to like office parks or like big, you know, big landscaping commercial and and landscape companies. Oh, okay. So like that would come out and actually lay the mulch for you. They would sell to them. And they wanted to get into the direct to consumer, so the delivery piece.
So they really didn't have a name to speak of. When we started working with them, they were thinking of how environmentally friendly this is. What we figured out in our research was people actually appreciated the quality of it more and the fact that you could get it delivered to your house like you were talking about. Yeah. We came up with a core idea that was just green cycle equals mulch. That's the brief.
I always like to say, you know, your brief is showing if if um you're too obvious about what you're doing, but um the brief for them was green cycle equals mulch. And what that means is we needed people to associate those two things with each other. And because they're a really fun client, they said, "You can do that in whatever way makes the most sense." So, we ended up using humor to do it. That's not always the route that we take. But in their case, we're still doing that 16 years later.
They have a massive business now with five locations in in Indie, in and around Indie. The humor piece is really interesting cuz I feel like some brands, it can be hard to be tasteful, but also funny and like really uh hit the nail. And again, humor is not always, you know, the answer, but also neither is, you know, like the Nike like motivational, inspirational, like everything you watch like makes you ready to go run a marathon. And so, is there like a process you go through when thinking about, you know, what like what a brand uh needs to feel like? You know, like you're a mulch company, but like is it based on the leadership's personality? Is it based on just the general market and there's no other funny mulch companies here or like how do you figure out what kind of stories and and what tone to talk?
Sure. Yeah, it is kind of that vin diagram overlap or the overlap in the vin diagram between um the owner's personality and the brand personality and what they stand for and what their customer cares about. So you need to kind of find the overlap between those two things and that's really the sweet spot. So another example of that would be like Metazoa Brewing and their founder Dave Worthington and their president Lauren Frederick. Their whole thing from the beginning was we want to not just make great beer but we want to help animals through this like help animal charities. I literally like Metazoa for me is just sending them to like dogs like they just love dogs like oh that's the brewery that loves dogs like cuz they have the dog park down there downtown right and like I don't know why like I guess people who doing their great job branding it's like I just you know think of them as animal lovers.
Well, I think sometimes it's about not over complicating things like cut through the BS like just get down to so like for them the tag that we developed is drink beer help animals. It is very clear what their mission is. Everything else builds up around that. So I think part of what we excel at is coming up with that focal point and then building from that. You can use that for a really long time. So, this is an interesting part of the story is it's one thing to get to be creative and like entrepreneurial when you have a stable paycheck coming in and you have like the security blanket that is a full-time job, you know, you're leading marketing, the whole n, you know, that whole uh stickick.
But then it's a whole another game when you quit your job and go all in on whatever your dream is. And in 2006, you do that. you're even though you're getting this, you know, this awesome experience, this leadership, why why leave this uh dynamic company that's growing and allowing you to have freedom and chase crazy ideas to go chase your own crazy idea? I didn't leave is the is the short sort of. Yeah. They said, you can take this business with you, the specific segment of our business that you've created, and you can spin it off.
You'll run it, but we will own 90% of it to start and you'll buy it from us over time based on the performance of the company. Oh, I mean that's a pretty cool gig. Okay, so there was still a little bit of security there. Wow. I mean these guys rock there. Yes.
Wow. Okay. So I mean I if you are truly an aspirational entrepreneur, granted it's still entrepreneurship at the end of the day. you still have to perform to like earn, you know, earn the business and to grow the business and like not end up like coming back asking for your old job back with like your tail tuck between your legs. So, you still have to do that whole piece. But I think that's an incredible testament to the owners of print resources.
Print resource or resources resources print resources uh to be, you know, care about people enough to help structure something to make this come to life. That's so cool. their approach has informed my uh consulting work over the years too of just like when I I think of brand strategy as business strategy. Same thing. Um I would advise someone like Tim and Kurt to do the exact same same thing they did. So like if I met a Tim and Cart today and they told me I have this young person they've developed or just any person within the business they've developed something that doesn't quite fit our core model but it's valuable but it's also like scope creep for us or mission creep and it's not what we do best.
I would say spin it off. Focus is really important in business and when you start to have a business that has multiple focal points it's not terribly effective. It becomes very difficult to market that, very difficult to position it. I mean, it's the classic Billy Mays like, "But wait, there's more. We do this and this and every single sham." Wow.
No, spin it off. At least give it its own um space to breathe, its own brand. Um, and in their case, its own entity and company. Though, entrepreneurship doesn't always come exactly that way. Like for for me, the final domino that got me to quit my job and and jump all into what we were doing here was I got a I was doing like um I I actually Dan upstairs, he needed some marketing work done and he said he would give me like a a decent contract to be his like part-time marketer. So like basically I could get my bills paid uh doing freelance marketing for Dan while I built my business on the other side.
And then he was like, "Yeah, let's say like, you know, six, nine, 12 months, you know, somewhere in that time frame." And within three months, I was able to spin that back and him have like the rest of his staff take over because stuff here at Get Indiana had taken off. And so I think that people I mean, maybe it's unique to Indiana or maybe it's not, I don't know, but it's specifically in Indiana and Indianapolis. There are people that are willing to invest in you, not just from their time perspective, but also financially to help you reach your entrepreneurial dreams. And a lot of times there's just that like internal voice that's that's like actually scared to make it happen. Like I mean that has you sitting on the sideline cuz you're like, "Oh, what if this happens?
What if this goes wrong?" Blah blah blah blah blah. And it's like, man, ask a few questions like figure out the what's the worst that could happen? you know, 6 months from now it doesn't work out and you go back and get your job or you go look for a new job. Like when you're young and in your 20s, it's not that bad. I think it's easier in Indiana and in Indianapolis because the cost of living is lower because it's easier to get connected.
It's more of like um more open and friendly and there aren't gatekeepers as much here. So, you do have more of a fallback plan. It's easier to get plugged into things. Like there is just a healthy amount of pressure that is good. Like sometimes it's terrifying and it's like keeps you up a little bit at night. Like that's just you just like sign up for that when you join the roller coaster I suppose.
But but like having that time, the focus and the pressure like usually if you have like the right idea, you know, you have like a sales motion like there's a lot of stuff that you have to have lined up, but you don't need to go out and raise $50 million so that like, okay, well, I can pay myself this and our staff this salary for the next five years. It's like, hey, sometimes you got to build the plane while you're flying and figure it out. Yeah. And getting rich is not a good reason to start a business. No, I totally agree. The older I get, you're probably not going to, but Yeah.
Oh gosh. No, the older I get too, the like the more and I think that when you're again on the outside looking in the like mission of like our our business selling whatever changes the world and it's like you don't need to be like that dove chocolate rapper, but like are you changing the lives of your employees? Are you changing the lives of people that you work with like your customers? Are you making, you know, branding and are you making, you know, whatever the thing that you're doing is less miserable for other people? Yeah. Are you doing something you can be proud of?
Yeah. And feel good about. Yeah. Amen. Okay. So, you're in 2006, what you were 25 years old and you get the opportunity to go out there and start.
Did you have the original name right when you you guys spun it out? Yes, it has been called Pivot from the very beginning. really that picks up on this idea of helping people make important shifts and transformations in their businesses and their brands um and come up with what is that focal point that we're going to rebuild around. I mean that's the reason for the name. What are kind of the resources that you have like is it just you yourself and I hanging out like okay day one like do you have an off like are you still officed within print resources at the time? Yes.
So we got to share space as well so we were initially in the studs that was our very first office. Are you solo? Um, I have one employee, so they let me take one with me. Oh, which is great. Designer. The There we go.
Because early on, I feel like a lot of people used the Royal Wii. Like, yeah, we believe Oh, there was an actual Wii. There were two of us. When you start with an actual, you're cooking. Let's go. Okay.
Uh, wait, wait. Was your was the designer older or younger than you? Younger. Okay. See, that's another interesting piece, too, I think, for young entrepreneurs is the first hire you make that's older than you. Mhm.
That's like like looking at you like they might have like for you know they might have like a family and kids and the whole nine yards and you're over here like oh well if this goes I got a not a degree to fall back on if this thing doesn't work out. So like I'm chilling. My first two employees were younger than me. All of my clients were older than me. How did you have your clients see you as a thought leader in the space as a 25-year-old walking in there telling them that, hey, your legacy strategy that's gotten you to be a 10, 15, 25, 30 year old business is wrong and you should do it a different way. The Notre Dame degree did help, but it only goes so far.
You know, you still have to deliver. You still have to um listen really well and be open to change, but also be confident enough to tell them when you think something needs to shift in their business. at 25 when you're sitting across from a usually a 55year-old man. You know that that was not an uncommon dynamic for me for the first 10 years. Yeah. Of my business.
For me, it came back to we're going to do the right research. So, it's not just going to be me saying it. That's really important. It's not just going to be Jenn saying this is what you should do in your business. We're going to talk to your customers. We're going to talk to your employees.
We're going to go really deep and immerse ourselves in your world and your business. I want to pull on on this thread when you're thinking of being a 25-year-old female and you're sitting across from these, you know, probably old white guys sitting there like the old boys club that have done things the same way. What recommendations, tips, strategies, what were you doing to, you know, instill this confidence within you? And what advice would you give to other young female leaders out there to really be seen as a leader and to be a leader and to be confident in those rooms where you know at first you might not feel that confident in your ideas have value. When you run your own business you get the opportunity to choose who you work with. Um so I think the right clients saw my youth and my femaleeness as an advantage as a potential advantage of like ah she might bring a different perspective to this.
um she might look at this problem differently. Um so I think the savvy ones really saw it as an advantage. And was there like a tactful way that you were communicating this? Cuz I think another thing to to come in and just totally rock the boat and I think that there's like an art to getting your ideas adopted by people cuz nobody likes change. Do you have was there a way that you were getting these new and fresh and innovative ideas uh well received by maybe the old the old guard? It goes back to having the evidence and you know the discipline to ask the right questions and get good answers for them from the beginning and almost using that resour research to let them come to that conclusion on their own and then you're like oh yeah like they're already saying it's your best client saying this needs to shift or they see this in you or when we look at the market here's what I'm noticing from your aspirational peers you know who do you want to become so I think that's been a big theme in my consulting work and in our brand work is helping people understand who they want to become and then how to get there by being really focused and putting that out in the world.
That's something I've done from the very beginning and that resonated with those business owners is like, okay, you're going to help me figure out how to talk about myself and what resonates and you're going to give me something I can use not for a year but for 20 years. That's really valuable. I also sort of had a chip on my shoulder from the beginning of like I never wanted to be mistaken for the marketing girl. Okay. Yeah. Tell me more.
when I'm walking into a room and I think for all young business owners for um anyone involved in consulting or working on brand being seen as having a seat at the leadership table was really important to me that my ideas were going to shape a business a city for the better were going to pay off for a long time had high value that is different from someone who's going to take orders I'm not an order taker I'm not here just to nod and be like yeah that's a great idea yeah yep and blow smoke, you know, it's like, no, I have true expertise. Um, and we're going to figure this out together and I'm a consultant and we're going to be on the same page here. We're going to be leaders together in this. Uh, so that's a different posture. Yes. Very much so.
Versus like the you get a PO and you print the stuff off and you send it to them and they get give them exactly what they want versus helping them figure out what they need. Yes. It's like being a therapist also. It's just I mean a lot of what I do is business therapy. And you hold up a shape and it's like does this make you want to buy more mulch? There you go.
Oh, what do you see here? Yes. It's Bad Dad Brewing. You know, um amazing. Well, I want to know how do you grow a business? You're 25 years old.
You're, you know, you grew up on the north side. Now you're, you know, ingrained in the downtown community. You know, you guys were at the Studs at the time. Yeah. How does one in their 20s grow a business, hire more employees? like what are the what are the different steps that you took to grow pivot?
It's a calling for me as much as it is a career. Yeah. You know, and I think that that resonated with the type of people I was trying to attract. So, both from a client perspective and employees. Yeah. I take it very seriously, but I also have fun with it.
I think that it's extremely powerful what we get to do because it combines all these different disciplines and essentially motivates people to take action and that I was going to put my talents behind things I believed in. And so I think that definitely resonates with clients where they say, "Hey, we're mission aligned." I have a lot of clients saying to me, "We work with you A because we're missional aligned, B because we know it's not just going to be run-of-the-mill creative and you really take the time to understand us and our clients." Yeah. So that's how I've grown it is just by attracting like sometimes you just got to win on price. You got to get some momentum going and you got to come in, hey, you know what?
We're we're two employees. We'll come in there. I'll I'll get the work. I'll do great work and I'll also win on price. Where along that journey did you start to say, you know what, like we're good at this and we're going to win on value, not necessarily just price. Yeah.
I think the key to that is not doing things you're not great at. Like I mean it's I think you know simple because there's a lot of [ __ ] in what what we do and a lot of like oh yeah we can handle that when you can't. The umbrella of marketing is so big. You talk about like the sign on the front of a building is marketing as well as the flyer as well as the social media ad as well. There's just so much of it and it's like oh yeah I am a full service what and it's like it's so hard for a a small team especially to be good at everything great at exceptional at everything and it's like oh well what if you found a lane and just became the best at that lane? What was what was the early lane that you started to swim in?
Branding. Branding. We came back to it in the last few years. I think we had gotten away from it. Not away from it, but expanded into some of those other service areas just as I was talking about earlier like that maybe weren't they were a little bit of a mission creep or they were a little bit outside of our core capabilities and we really came back to hey branding and these like high stakes creative campaigns that's what we do best. Yeah.
Is it hard as a leader to narrow that focus on branding when it's like people will always reach out to say like, "Hey, we need this that will you do this?" And you're growing a business. It's hard to say like, "Oh, that's a pretty good amount of revenue. Like that's a good contract we could take on. Like we could hire more. We get a little more stability, you know, like how do you balance uh expanding and taking on new business versus staying hyperfocused on what you're exceptional at?"
I think sometimes maybe I'm a little too, you know, narrow and focused and and disciplined about it, but ultimately I think it's a good thing. I also don't feel like I need to have all the business, you know. I also don't think growth is a very good goal in and of itself. I think growth just for the sake of growing doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Um, I would rather refer someone to a partner who I know who does that thing better. Let's say like an e-commerce website or something.
Yeah, we don't do that. Well, we're not Shopify experts. Why would I pretend to be? Yeah. Um, and the times that I have gone down that path, we didn't do as well on it as we should have, you know, and I I do not like disappointing people. I am a teacher's pet from way back.
I hate disappointing people. So, anything I can do to avoid that, I will. And I like sharing the wealth or like I would rather refer someone to someone else if they do that thing better than we do. Again, there's no uh industry term for this besides that like, you know, karma out in the world. Like it somehow it always ends up coming back in ways that you couldn't have imagined. And I know that you cannot build a business model off of like good intentions or anything like that, but like every time that we're like, oh, you know, people want uh for us in our business, it's like they, oh yeah, we have an event coming up and we need videographers.
It's like, oh, we don't do that, but I know a great videographer or whatever. And they're like, "Oh, wait." Like, then they'll start asking like, "But what exactly do you do and what are you?" And I'm like, "Oh, we're like, you know, we're a media company. We, you know, make our own content. Like Nate is in here doing the thing."
Like, "Oh, wait." Like, and then it just like helps connect the dots and good stuff ends up coming that way. And maybe one of our videographer friends gets some great content and gets that new client and then they're thinking about us, too. and being generous in that and being being real. Like being able to look in the mirror and say like we're not e-commerce Shopify experts. Like that's not our forte.
Like we're not going to put on this mask and pretend to be. I think a lot of business owners get caught up in pretending to be something that they're not. Yes. Well, because payroll is real. That is true. And it's coming every two weeks, you know, and so I think that there is a temptation a lot of times to keep more to have a scarcity mentality.
I don't know. I think that entrepreneurship in general uh I think it's a fun place to be at. I was two years ago. I think I was 27 when I started this and you know it's like I already wasn't making that much money anyway. So I wasn't like like the scarcity mindset was like you know two nickels are still two nickels like you're not giving up a lot there. Um and so you come from that abundance mindset.
Yeah. What about older individuals that might be pondering on their business idea for 5, 10, 15 years and are, you know, you start to get used to a lifestyle and like is it just too late to start a business? Like what advice would you give to maybe people that are a little more tenured, a little more seasoned and starting their business? No, it's never too late. And I think actually the older you are probably the more niche you are or you've figured out what you're really hopefully you've figured out what you are best at and that is uniquely your expertise and you actually have expertise. You know that's something I didn't really have starting out necessarily.
So no I don't think it's ever too late. I think focus is really important and I think that's actually advant an advantage you would have as a more mature mature mature yeah entrepreneur is that like a good example is um one of the folks on my team actually just started a company as well so he works for us he also runs a company he lives in St. Um, and it is an Amaro brand, which is a very niche Italian lour that he over the last 10 years has just gotten really into it, like tinkering with it and creating his own Amaros. He's more seasoned now. I mean, you know, he's approaching 40. Oo, and uh, you know, so old um, and has a family and, you know, he's further along and maybe as a young person, he had 20 different business ideas that he could have started.
Now he has one business that he has started that is his true passion that's very niche that's super focused that leverages his expertise and I think that's the advantage if you are an a mature entrepreneur. Yeah. I mean as someone who has no shortage of business ideas. The true magic came for me when I I got the advice from one of my great friends. Uh shout out to my my buddy Cole. He gave me the advice and said like, "When are you going to quit dabbling?"
Like, dabblers die. And he was just like, "You need you do a little bit of this and a little bit of that and you don't do any of it well." And I mean, but see, we're like, "That's real with real talk. Brutally honest." And I I was I was like the side hustle demon. I just had, oh, some days I'm a real estate, you know, and some days I'm an e-commerce, you know, and like for me that was from the age of, you know, 20 to 25.
I was a dabbler. I did a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And I learned a lot, you know, and I never a lot of it came from being uh scared to put my whole full weight behind something cuz what if it fails? And then I'm no longer the side hustle. I'm the failure. And once I got over the fact of like people fail, it happens, whatever, move on.
And like I stopped being scared of failing and more excited to chase a thing. Like we found the podcasting realm, the media space, and like all of the stars just aligned into what we were doing. And it was like, and it was not like a I want to start a business. It was I have to start a business. Like I have to chase this thing to see where it can go cuz we're having so much fun. were growing.
Like I don't know like it's a weird phenomenon but it all goes back to Cole Taylor telling me dabblers die. You need to quit [ __ ] around. It was great. That's amazing. And I think just people's periods of dabbling differ. Yeah.
Some people know at 16 this is what they want to do and some people not until they're 75 and that's fine. I want to talk a little bit more about you finding this passion for branding and the stories that you've been able to help tell. a lot of them around, you know, places and identities specifically around Indiana and Indianapolis and Bloomington, right? I believe, you know, I think I read it in the intro, what visit Bloomington, the Stuts, Butter, Indie Welcomes All, No Mean City, and the Indianapolis International Airport. A lot of that is around welcoming guests into a place. When you think of the Stuts, when you think of butter, when you think of the airport, like no better front door than to the state of Indiana than the Indianapolis airport.
Talk to me about how you found this kind of space within I don't want to say it's travel and tourism, but it kind of is. And and like hospitality, let's say that. How did you end up in in that space? A space where brand makes a big difference and is very valued. So that helps. Yes.
when when what you're offering is valued, you are in the right spot. Really interesting and fun and there are a lot of different aspects to it, but it has to start with what's real. Okay? So, that is our approach with any of those places or experiences or destinations is you can't invent or inflate what the experience is. Yeah. Like people see right through that.
Like we can't just start saying that like we're music city like Indian like because we because it's cool and it's trendy and that's like what's in right now. Like that's not real. Exactly. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends at Bloom Rank. They told us to tell you that Chat GBT is likely recommending your business's competitors. Test it out.
And if you don't see chat recommending you, it's time to call Bloom Rank. They've helped dozens of Indiana businesses like yours. Make sure they're the business AI recommends. When someone needs what you sell, forget listeners only. They're offering a free website rebuild within your first month of working with them. This is only for Shopify store owners and local home service contractors.
Find out if you qualify by going to getbloomrank. com/getin. That's getblooank. com/getin. Now, let's get back to the show. This is an interesting piece because when you're working with brands, you're working with a mulch company.
There's an ROI. We need more people to know us to buy our mulch. And like you can track that like, oh yeah, I saw your billboard on, you know, 465 and now I buy multramu, right? Sweet. When you're working with a place, it's not as simple to track the ROI of, you know, visit Bloomington or, you know, Indie Welcomes all or the airport. Like this is more of like a there's a little bit of a feeling that comes along with the identity and the brand of a place.
What was the first brand that you worked on where you weren't marketing necessarily a business, but more an identity of a place? Sure. I don't know if it was the first one, but um Indianapolis when we worked on No Mean City was the first time where we were trying to basically get 50,000 people to move here. I mean, that was the uh the brief. I don't know if I'm saying too much by saying that. Um but the brief behind that was to get 50,000 people to move to when was this?
2013. So in 2013, you get into this project called No Mean City. Yep. Wasn't called that yet, but yes. Oh, you get into this project that says, "We need It's probably like very like economic development like yes, we would like to we would like to increase the residency and the occupancy of blah blah blah blah by 50,000 individuals by, you know, 2025 or whatever it is." Yes.
Okay. Yeah. So, you go into that meeting and it was like, "Okay, y'all, we probably need to to rethink how we're talking about this." Yes. Okay. Yes.
Wait, who what was the organization putting it on? Indie Chamber and Indie Hub. Ah, yes. Okay, makes sense. So, 2013, Indie Chamber, IndieHub want to increase how many people live in Indianapolis, and they need a they need to work on the brand of this in the campaign. Yes.
Okay. And that was pretty much it. That was the brief. We basically came in with an anthem. I mean, we came in with a beautiful poem that was written by someone who worked for me at the time who's now a a content director at Netflix. She's brilliant.
Bayonet Media was involved as well in putting this like amazing anthem video together about all the things we knew to be true about Indianapolis as a team of 25 and 35 year olds at the time. So, we basically came in and said, "We are who you want to attract. We are already here. Here's why we are choosing to be here." But it was done in a way that was very creative and beautiful and poetic and also inspiring like would get your blood pumping you. So we went in more with an anthem um than anything and said if we're going to work on this here are a few um parameters that we're going to stay within.
We're only going to tell what's real. We're not going to inflate anything. So we're going to tell the real stories of Indianapolis and we're going to tell the stories that aren't being told currently. So, we're not we're not going to just feature the people who are usually on the front of the brochure or the usual suspects in the IBJ. We are also going to tell the, you know, the negatives and how they're being addressed. You know, we're not going to shy away from things that need to be fixed.
Okay. Can we talk about that for a second? Yeah. I recently saw this so prevalent in a place I visited where you don't just like wallpaper over you know past mistakes so that you can learn from this and and correct it in the future and I was in Charleston, South Carolina and I was walking and I'm a history guy. I love history. And so I read all the little, you know, plaques and stuff and like the first time I read one and it talks about how many enslaved people lived in this house.
It kind of like made my stomach turn a little bit and I'm like, "Wait, hold on. This is this is the right thing." like it's like it's uncomfortable to read and you're like, "Oh, I don't know if yeah, you probably don't want like that to be like the pinnacle of your marketing, but it's also true and you you would be wrong to just not include that part of it." And so I was saw and I started to notice it everywhere that I went and I saw like wow the whether it be the South Carolina government or the people of Charleston who someone in there was very intentional along this journey that we can't just act like this didn't happen. Yeah. Like we have to continue to keep this prevalent.
So that again, here I am now 3 months later or whatever talking about it on a podcast because I like saw the brand of this and like addressing those um that's atrocities, you know, this like these bad things that were happening. But that way going forward, you know, if it's top of I mean not top of mind, but if it's in your mind, you can not be destined to repeat it. Part of what makes a city interesting is all the layers and the history and the context. The other thing we said we were going to do with that that um was going to make it different like so for what became Nomin City was and I think this goes to not only are the stories we choose to tell important but who gets to tell those stories is also important and so the other thing we said from the very beginning was this is going to be a collective um effort and by that I mean it's not just going to just be done by pivot we put together a group of 80 different collaborators photographers ers, writers, designers, artists to tell the story through their perspective.
Wow. So like the content wasn't just written by Pivot. Very little of it was written by us. It was written by other creatives. Through what medium? So you have 80 different, let's say at the time, this is 2013ish time frame.
Um the term creator is not necessarily what it is today where everyone with an iPhone is a creator, which I love. This is 2013, this is over a decade ago. What mediums were they creating it? Photography, video, writing. We had a publication, like an actual print publication um that was developed. There was also um a website, social media, um ad campaign, public relations efforts.
So, they were telling it through every channel we could think of basically that was going to reach people with the real stories of Indianapolis told by the real people of Indianapolis. That was the whole premise. Where did the name No mean city come from? Well, you talked about, you know, plaques that you were reading in Charleston. actually comes from um the side of the old city hall. So, and a speech that was given many years ago um on that site.
So, on the old city hall, if you look close, it's still there. Engraved on there is um I am a citizen or I myself am a citizen of no mean city. Um and it was from a speech delivered by Mayor Charles Bookwalter and no mean city means no average city. Um that's the true meaning of it, no average city. and he was referencing a letter from Paul in the Bible where he was talking about the people of I think Tarsus and how Tarsus was no mean city. So kind of following that path backwards.
It also was chosen because you know a lot of times we're thought of as average. Yeah. So it was a bit of a you know Yeah. I'm like looking through. Okay. So origin, the phrase originates from the Bible, Acts 21:32:39, and was famously used by former President Benjamin Harrison in 1897 to describe Indianapolis as a significant place.
I love how AI says with good roads and schools, you know, you know. Okay. Um, the mod of the quote, I I am myself a citizen of no mean city is engraved on the cornerstone of Old City Hall. That is so cool because I kind of was thinking like Taylor Swift like mean, you know what I'm saying? Versus that was intentional too because it also was like hey we're friendly you know it's so it has multiple layers of meaning which is also something we pride ourselves on. Wow creating it's multiple layers of meaning.
I mean that's so cool. No mean city. And so it's not you know it doesn't have logos all over you know that was important too. It's like this shouldn't be institutional. Well, it's like when you try to give yourself your own nickname, you know, like, "Hey, call me Cash." And they're like, "No, dude.
Like, we're not going to like call you can't give yourself your nickname. It has to be like earned through like experience." And it was um influencer marketing before influencer marketing. It was we were approaching it from you could see yourself there. It's very doable. Here's the reality.
Here's some things you need to, you know, plan on or plan around. And here's here's all the good reasons that I live here. I mean, I think for me it was also about telling my personal story and weaving that into it, which was it was easier to reach my goals faster in Indianapolis. That's why I'm here as opposed to Chicago or New York. And then once you've reached your goals, some of those goals, bought a home, started a business, you're in like you're not going anywhere probably. Yeah.
Well, we had Christian Anderson on uh maybe a month or two ago and he talks about, you know, speed city is like really the the tagline that he has just like, you know, been raving about. And it's not just at IMS. It's not just, you know, like the straightaway when you're, you know, the cars are cooking at 240 whatever miles per hour. It's also like getting, you know, starting your business, buying a home, raising up or or climbing the ladder in your corporate job or whatever it might be. Indianapolis is a place where you can accelerate. And those that are, you know, putting themselves out there that are willing to, whether it be manage a art gallery or just say yes, show up, volunteer, do whatever it is, the the place, no mean city rewards those people.
If you are not uh of the mean, you will be rewarded in a place like Indiana, a place like Indianapolis specifically. Big fish, small pond. I moved to India in 2019, let's say 201. So that was my first experience living in the big city. I'm from a town of 1500 people in rural northern Indiana. Yeah.
I lived downtown like just off of Uppui's campus and I was like this is the craziest thing ever. I was hooked. But I had never I've never heard of No Mean City. I've never heard of. Not sorry if that's like a No, no, no. But it's like what happened to like this seems like I'm jazzed up about this.
What happened? It sort of evolved into what is now life in Indie. You've probably heard of that. Yes, I have. And now Speed City is also like the next iteration of that work, too. So, so the work that you kind of helped get started back in 2013 has evolved and and changed and shifted and is still uh yeah, how we're talking about our PL.
What where are we at on the 50,000 new residents? I think we've lost a little momentum if I'm totally honest because like the north side of Indie it like the indie metro ripping like people want to live in the indie metro indie proper DBD like I like it down here. I think that it's like fun and I live in Broadripple. It's very vibrant and there's a lot of life. But I totally uh have seen this growth of the suburbs, you know, the donut county like especially I mean you you just it's hard to compete with Hamilton County when they keep stacking up like best place to live, safest place to live, best place to do whatever like they get or they're on every list every other week. Roads and schools, you know, you mentioned a minute ago roads and schools.
Focusing on the basics for Indie is going to be important. Yeah, I also think if indie can also create opportunities again for people to own homes or less and at a younger age or not even necessarily younger but just more attainably own homes that is a great way I think to rebuild. Okay, so you get to work on this crazy cool campaign. I mean how like it has to be like a multi like over a year, two year like how long was the entire four or five years when it was all said and done um altogether. Yeah. Was there, and I know this is going to be really hard, so brace yourself for a very challenging question.
Oh boy. Was there one piece of creative, one story, one anything that you can look at and say this is your proudest crown jewel of the no mean city project that you worked on? Any welcomes all, which is a separate campaign, but it was all the same players. Okay. So the any welcomes all campaign which was our response to RIFFRA the religious freedom restoration act in 2015 um which that legislation was passed right before final four. What an interesting conundrum to be in.
Yeah. Um all eyes on Indianapolis. We were about to launch no mean city. So we had spent two years building this campaign to get people to move to Indianapolis. It was about to be broadcast nationwide, this No Mean City campaign and Riffer passed and then the [ __ ] hit the fan. But I think this is shared by a lot of people.
It was disgusting and embarrassing and made me really angry on a personal level and business level and all other ways. Like there were billions of dollars being pulled from our state, being threatened to be pulled from our state because of that legislation. Um particularly in the hospitality side of things. Um, and it just wasn't a good reflection of who we truly were as a city, you know, especially for Indianapolis. It was like, hey guys, this is not what we believe. This is not what we're all about.
And we raised our hands and said, "Hey, we've been working on no mean city. Everything we've all been working toward is going to be for not if we don't get this fixed and repealed." And also give the public a way to respond and to show what they're feeling and what their true colors are. So um we raised our hand for that and we developed any welcomes all campaign with a key cohort of folks around the table. Um but pivot developed the identity the brand for that in 24 hours and then rolled it out across one week. I had probably 500 emails um in my inbox of things where different folks raised their hand in town and said, "Hey, you can have these banners at the airport.
Hey, you can have um the campaign. You can use this billboard um from Visit Indie on the highway. You can We're going to sponsor We're going to pay for 50,000 t-shirts for restaurant workers to wear or like not just restaurant, everyone. You have free t-shirts basically with Indie Welcomes all on it. Um buttons that so every 15 minutes I was getting a different email with and now so and so has raised their hand and they want Indie Welcomes all on XYZ to be ready for the final four next weekend. And we did it.
um not just us, you know, it was a whole cohort of people, but by raising our hands, by being ready, by being in front of it, we were able to address it very quickly and get it repealed. Do you thrive in those fast-paced, high pressure situations? Not usually. Okay. I think this was special because it meant so much to me. I had never heard of crisis graphic design before in my life, but that's what this crisis graphic design and branding.
you know, crisis branding isn't really a thing, but that's that's what this was. And really, we were only able to do it because we'd already been thinking about it and working on it for two years. Also, your conviction and it kind of goes back to the original thing like the the OG conversation we were having about your brand and like telling that story and it has to be real. Yeah. and your conviction not only about no mean city and like that is like a bragging about how great and like we want 50,000 new residents the whole nine yards here but this is your conviction of like what is real in our city what is real in our it's like looking around talking to people shaking hands kissing babies knowing that it is a place that uh it welcomes everyone and it's like the best I still stand on it the best host city your major event because Uh, I say like the Hooser hospitality is unrivaled, you know, when like, you know, Final Four was just here.
And it's so cool in a place like it could be final four or it could be work truck week or it could be whatever the big the firefighters convention and all of a sudden everyone's downtown just like it's all out for the firefighters or it's all out for final four or it's all out for WNBA allar. Like it's just so it's a cool almost like um we like are kind of a chameleon in that way where we just like whatever you're excited about and you want to host here like we're going to be excited about. Like I love it. I think it's so cool and that's like a true, you know, a true host. And so I'd say yes, it goes back to the two years you've been working on it, but just like hearing the conviction and the way you talk about that, like 500 emails, that would take me a lifetime to respond to unless you really cared about it. Yeah.
Wow. And it was one of those where it was like even if there's no pay at the other side of, you know, it was like we're going to do this regardless. Yeah. Even whether there was a client or not, we were going to work on it. I mean, I could I could get into the uh the weeds of, you know, place, identity, and branding till the cows come home. I I we do a whole another fullon three-hour podcast episode about that.
I do want to know when you think of how Indie can best tell its story and brand the city of Indianapolis and the state of Indiana, two separate questions. If you were in, if you became the chief brand officer of the state of Indiana, what would you lean into? It would be real similar to my earlier answer, which is what is true? Yeah. what is special about us that is true and also isn't just table stakes. I see a lot of people confusing table stakes for like a true differentiator.
So I think for me it would be what are our true differentiators that people care about that are also true about us. I would also stop putting so much pressure on finding the right tagline or the right, you know, um brand and just play with some different campaigns, see what sticks. I think that's also fine to do. Like try some different things. Ultimately, I think Indiana's easy. I think that's one of the easiest messages to spread is just for the most part, you know, we have some things to figure out, but it's easy, especially Indianapolis.
If you're looking for a city that feels like a big city, but also you can be anywhere in 20 minutes. You're not really angry. I mean, unless there's a pothole, but like relatively like you think about commuting place, like if I have to sit in like 35 seconds of traffic, I'm like starting to get a little and that's like because it's just so such a rare occurrence. Yes. I actually just had a crazy idea. You talk about what is real.
You want to find out Indy's like tagline. Yeah. Maybe here's what it is. Indie Chamber, you watch this or whoever is in the powers that be, you send me I'll go on a uh recruiting mission all across the country. I'll go ask people what do they know about Indiana. I'll just go and I'll document the process of like that will tell us.
You talk about from your earliest days. Exactly. That's what we did. Like that's I'm glad you said that because that is the research that we do. So one of the things we did like for Bloomington that was so great when we were working with Visit Bloomington. Yeah.
We did a survey of people within a 200 mile radius and didn't just ask them what they thought of Bloomington, but we also asked what is the first word that comes to mind when you think of Lexington, Kentucky, when you think of um you know Cincinnati. We went there were like 10 others and then asked the question about Bloomington because it's also you've got to have a control and a variable. So, if we had just presented, hey, here's what everybody thinks about Bloomington, people would have questioned it because they would say, oh, well, maybe this survey didn't get to the right people, blah, blah, blah. But by revealing first, so like, what do you think the word was for Lexington? Horses. Yes, exactly.
What do you think the word was for Cincinnati? Reds baseball. That's exactly what it was. Um, see, that's a fun game. Yeah, I was literally thinking about doing this back to you and Okay, wait. We're gonna That'll be a fun segment we're going to do at the end.
Okay. What was Bloomington? What do you think it was? IU. Exactly. I mean, Cream and Crimson, right?
Like the whole nine yards. So, we said guys, cuz they were wondering, do we go all in on being very closely affiliated with IU or do we try to create a distinct brand for Bloomington? And it came back, no, IU is what you're known for. So, let's keep leaning into that. And then the way that we extrapolated upon that was because IU is here, what else is here? Yeah.
And so it was about like hippies and marijuana and this thinking Dolly Lama's brother and his it's crazy. Like again, there's like a whole I need to go do the deep dive on this place. Uh I was just down in Bloomington and like did not have time to squeeze it in, but it's like a I don't know like it's a bohemian enclave. It is. Yeah. That was like started by the Daly Lama's brother or something.
Oh, the Tibetan monastery. Tibetan monastery. That was the Daly Lama's brother was an adjunct professor or something at IU and also started this monastery. And it's like, what? It's like such a place everyone raves about it of quiet reverence where you can just go and hear yourself think. I'm like, what?
Like I had no idea this existed. Yeah. The Daly Lama, the the ex- mayor of Bloomington told me that during his time as mayor, he met the Daly Lama twice. in Bloomington, Indiana. Like, that's crazy. Yes.
Like, that's wild. Okay. Wait, I want to Okay, we're gonna keep this thought exercise. Okay. When you think of Okay, I'm going to be a little more We're going to get a little more niche Indiana. Okay.
Uh, Southbend. Mhm. What do you think of what? Like, what's the word? Well, Notre Dame. Notre Dame.
Yeah. Yeah. But also industry. I think you would also think of like Studebaker and Yeah. Oh my gosh. I had a heyday at the Studebaker Museum.
M there's like it's such an old business that also you know went under 50 years ago but they have likeundred and x amount of years of history before that. Like one of the only wagon manufacturers I think there were only five in the country wagon manufacturers that were able to convert into automobile manufacturers. Every other company like failed. Studebaker did it and were able to like ride. You say they pivoted. Yes.
I did it. Yes. Come on. There we go. All right. Fort Wayne Riverfront.
Riverfront. Three rivers, right? I think there's like three of them up there. Okay, that's a good one. Evansville. I think it's pretty down there.
It is. Yeah. Columbus, Indiana. Architecture. Nashville, Indiana. Chachkis.
Chachki. Yes. I was going to say like quaint little crafts, but chachki also works. Um, incredible. I love it. Okay, finally then Indianapolis.
I think it's still sports. I think that's what we're known for. If you ask people from elsewhere, amateur sports, if I went all around the country and surveyed people, maybe I yeah, throw in, you know, what do you think of Cincy? What do you think of St. Louis? What do you think of Chicago?
Blah blah blah blah. And then asked about Indie, I would almost bet this again, this might be biased, like I feel like everywhere I go, where you from? I'm in an Uber, wherever. Like that there's your question. Oh, where you from? Indianapolis.
Oh, the Indy500. Yeah, racing. Sports and racing. Sports. And now I feel like more you get Caitlyn Clark, you know, like Pat McAfee. I feel like that one's a good tie in too.
Like there's some which is like I don't know if you definitely want to tie your identity to some individuals. It's wild because we have just as many really amazing uh creatives who have come from here. Yeah. I'm always like, "Oh, well, Kurt Vonagget, you know, like I think we could also some of her." We're missing is like a an Indianapolis blue chip mainstream musical artist from Indie. Baby Face like he I think he was like a jazz musician or something like that.
Like very acclaimed in that sphere. But like Louisville has like Jack Harlo. Like that's pretty sick, you know? Like we need someone like so someone out there that's watching this podcast if you have if you have a Soundcloud mixtape you we need to amplify this thing. We need our own like Jack Harlo or like country star or like some some like art like musical artist to just rise from from um Indianapolis. They're out there, you know, they're they're somewhere there.
Um amazing. Well, hey, this has been so great. We've come to the end of the show where we get to talk all things Indiana. We have uh this question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at home isjart.
com. My question for you, Jenn, why do you call Indiana home? Well, my family's here is the main reason. Also though, I think it's very much in my blood to be um you know, industrious and get [ __ ] done and um I think you can do that here and you can do it at a young age. Let's go. I love that one.
Absolutely. Is there an Indiana brand? This is going to be hard, too. Oh. Is there an Indiana brand that just has the aesthetic, the brand that just that you love? I'll even say this.
No customers. If it's just someone that like someone else thought of a brand that wasn't you guys that you're just like, man, you got to throw some respect. A little tip of the cap. Not because of their logo, you know, and that a brand is a lot bigger than logo. Um, but the Children's Museum, they have like such a solid brand and like really leaning into sports with their whole outdoor zone and like when they, you know, decorate the dinosaurs out front, the whole nine yards. Joyful.
Yeah. I I thought that the Lily kind of new brand like they're now a health company, I believe, or a medicine company. I don't know. Their new ads are great. It's like they're kind of like vintage Nike, you know? like Caitlyn Clark in there doing something that has nothing to do with whatever science really sexy.
If I had to guess what the brief was, it was probably make science sexy. I was honestly they're on the Olympic. They're on everything. Yeah. So, again, if anyone from Lily listens and you want to get on, you know, get in would love to talk. We're always like I'll give you 60C ad reads till the cows come home.
Let's go. Um, all right. We've come to the final three questions that we ask every guest who comes on the show. First, I'm sure during your time at Notre Dame, you met people from around the world. In your time interviewing people on the No Mean City project, you talked, I'm sure, to people from all over. If you could shout it from the rooftops, what's one thing the world needs to know about Indiana?
I think it's that industriousness. I think it's the we're creative and we get stuff done. I mean, it's like um don't underestimate our creativity and our ability. And that's kind of a little bit though when people underestimate like that's a little bit of the like what makes Hoosiers thrive. It's like the chip on your shoulder, you know, like you're overlooking us because we're in the middle of the country and we're going to prove you wrong. Yeah, absolutely.
Okay. This is your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? It's not hidden to me because it's a mile from my doorstep at home, but Eagle Creek Park. Oh, yeah. Wonderful.
I mean, it's four times bigger than Central Park. Um, it is a city park, but it's bigger than most state parks. It's beautiful, and I think people sleep on it. People definitely do. And I didn't realize I thought it was a state park. It is a municipal park, like operated by the city of Indianapolis.
Very, very cool. An awesome um just like an awesome space on the northwest side. We have, you know, there's not a lot of places you can be on the water in Indiana. You can walk like on the water bridge there. It's It's beautiful. Yeah.
And uh a plug for Yeah. kayaking. They do like sprint triathlons over the summer. Like they have a whole There's a whole like culture around Eagle Creek Park, which I love. All right. Finally, this is where we source new guests and learn about other people from Indiana with ties to the Hooser State that are doing incredible things.
Who's a Hooser we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things. Andrea Hunley. Oh, yes. Okay. Uh what do you love about Andrea?
Well, I love that she's bold and she's not afraid to speak her mind and be herself and uh she's a new voice in politics in Indiana and I just think we should keep an eye on her. Amen. I love it. Well, hey, thank you so much for coming on and telling us the story of Pivot. I It's an incredible Oh my gosh. from taking the risk as a 25-year-old to working on the literally like the marketing campaign of our city and then turning around in, you know, 24 hours and in one week creating such a wonderful campaign to showcase what's real.
I think at the end of the day when you distill it all down to talking about your brand, look at what's real, be candidly honest, and lean into that the brief. There it is. You got it. That wasn't that brief, but uh incredible. Well, if people want to learn more about you, if they want to connect with you, if they want to learn more about Pivot, where can they do that at? Yeah, they can go to pivot-brands.
com. Heck yeah. All right. Well, thanks for stopping by and we'll talk soon. Thank you. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater.
Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get
