Whatever you need and I will help you. It was a lot of just like, I'm terrified I'm gonna lose my wife.
I had to do it for 55 days. It can start to really extend those things. Yeah. Like hit those milestones
two and a half years ago. Would never get off the couch, is now looking to dream big and run a marathon.
What was the biggest lesson that you learn from Amanda's battle with cancer?
From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between. This is Get IN, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. This episode of Get IN is brought to you by Indy Grills and Outdoor Living.
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My guest today is Alex Baker. He is a Brownsburg, Indiana based marathoner and cancer awareness fundraiser in February, 2019. Alex lost his wife, Amanda, to late stage colorectal cancer. In the years since he's built Ketchup to Cancer. This helps channel his running into fundraising for institutions such as the St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. He has already raised tens of thousands of dollars to help families impacted by cancer. Today we're gonna be talking about Amanda's journey and, and battle with cancer that led you to starting this movement, Ketchup to Cancer.
We're gonna talk about what you've done so far and your big plans for 2026, what's coming down the pipe, what we can expect this year, and another what major marathon coming up in just a few months. Alex, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me. I'm, yeah, I know we've connected, you know, through, through some threads, but this is, yeah, it's good to be here.
So, for the avid listeners that listen to every single episode, you'll remember. Our episode with Stephanie from Send A Friend Lasagna. And on the episode she talked about what started her business was someone in her life that she had known was grieving and that she did the only thing she knew how to do and she made lasagna and dropped it off to this person and that person was you?
Yeah. It's pretty
amazing. So like, this is a full circle, like, I don't know, that was probably 50 or 60 episodes ago. And then you also know Ally Brettnacher. So the running communities are all coming together here. I'm really excited to dive into the story. It's gonna be of an emotional rollercoaster. I'm already prepared for it.
Um, and I wanna start with how you and your wife Amanda met.
Oh yeah. Yeah. So we, uh, we both went to IUPUI, you know the OG name. Go Jags. Go Jags. Uh, we were in Greek life. Um, you know, I was a fraternity man. She was a sorority woman. She was the president of the Student Activities Programming Board, which is like the big group.
Puts on all the, the events on campus, um, and being good fraternity men. We showed up to lift heavy things and, uh, you know, set up for the event and we crossed paths. And
what year?
This was 2005
probably. What year? What year of college?
Uh, sophomore year of college.
Sophomore
year
maybe? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And from there, sparks?
Uh, no.
Oh,
oh, we just, we crossed paths and I was just like, Hmm, this person is very interesting. I, I'm kinda like her. Okay.
Yeah.
Uh, we were both in relationships at, at the time and just, you know, so we kind of passed by each other for, for about two years.
Okay.
Uh, and then I got out of a long-term relationship.
She happened to be single and she sent me an AOL Instant Messenger IM. Whoa.
She sent it first?
Yeah. And it was like, Hey, happy birthday. Yeah. Uh, so it was my birthday and so I invited her to come out and hang out downtown with us, and she did. And a few weeks later we went to The Vogue, a Broad Ripple, staple, Retro Rewind.
And uh, I let her cut me in line and she said that was the day.
And they say chivalry is dead.
Yes. Yeah, that was the moment. And, uh, from there, uh, just a wild journey. We started dating, got engaged about a year later, got married a year after that. Um, we're now talking January, 2009 and off to the races.
Yeah. And you guys started to build your lives together.
Yeah.
Incredible man. Uh, the old fashioned with AOL Instant Messenger baby. Let's go. I love that. Um, so things progress and you guys are, you know, building your, like here in central Indiana.
Yep. Yeah, yeah. We we lived in Greenwood at the time, or Southport, technically at the time.
Yeah. And then, uh, eventually moved out to Brownsburg. We've been there since late 2009.
Okay, gotcha. So move out to Brownsburg. Yep. And then was it around 2015, 2016 you guys had, uh, a child?
Yes. Yeah. So we, we actually struggled with infertility for like three years and went through just a, a wild ride of, you know, every month over and over trying and being disappointed and yeah.
And we were, we were able to eventually through something called IUI, um, we, we were able to have our son
did that struggle for three years. Bring you guys closer together. Uh, 'cause I also could see how on other sides, like that could be hard. Yeah. And challenging for a couple.
Yeah. It, it is something that you always get surprised by.
Like, you think this is gonna be the thing, this is gonna be the thing as a couple you have to go through. Right. And I, I think for us, it, it did bring us closer together, but we also, it was a challenge we had to face together, like the disappointment month after month, the doctor's appointments, all of the, all of the things of just being in a tough spot.
Like nobody thinks they're ever gonna go through fertility problems. You know,
people deal with that, but we're not people.
Right. Yeah. Right. And, and so, you know, you're just like, well, what's wrong? Am I broken? Is there something? But in reality, like a lot of couples go through this and not a lot of people actually talk about.
The real struggles and the cost and the impact to the relationships and, and so yeah, that, I think to answer your question, yeah, I think it did bring us together, but it was, it was a roller coaster of a journey.
Yeah. But it has a great ending there. It does. Right? Yeah. You guys, so, uh, your son today is 11?11? Yep.
Wow. So that would've been twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen.
Uh, he was born in 2014. Uh, Thanksgiving time,
obviously three years. Yep. Struggle. Um, but it has a blessing there. Yep. Then things keep progressing and I mean, it, uh, it seems as though your guys' life is your out in the west side, you're in Brownsburg.
You got a kid like all peachy. Right.
Everything's great.
Yeah. Talk to me about your wife Amanda's diagnosis of cancer.
Yeah. So. We were completely blindsided by this. Yeah. We had no idea. So she had reconnected with some of her high school friends. They were doing a meetup in either Nashville, Tennessee or Chicago.
I don't remember which one, but they did doing a girls trip, you know? Yeah. And, and um, obviously those are driving distance from Indianapolis, so they, they drove and on her way back, she was just in a lot of pain and she didn't understand why. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure. Like I get it. Let's get you home.
See, see how you are. And after seeing her, like I just, I knew this is, we need to go to the hospital. This is not. Okay. This is not just, I'm hungover. I've had too much fun. Right. This is like serious pain.
Yeah. Like you're the hurt or you're injured. You're injured. Yes. You know, like, okay. So do you guys go immediately to the hospital?
We do. We drop our son off at, uh, grandma's house. Great grandma's for him. Um, and we, we head out to the hospital and this is nine o'clock at night probably. And we, we eventually Get IN, see a doctor and they're like, well, you know, it could be a blockage, could be, I don't know, just we will just do an x-ray, you know, just, just in case.
Yeah.
And so we do an x-ray. We're, we're just sitting there like, okay, come on, get this done. We can just go home. Like, this is probably, you're just constipated. Right? Like something like that. And the doctor comes back in and says, um, something was weird on the x-ray. We would like to do a CT scan. And so we're like, okay, sure, whatever.
Let's do the CT scan. It's one o'clock in the morning. We're just like waiting and waiting and waiting. What's going on?
Yeah.
Um, I have a, a flight for work at like 6:00 AM the next day. Like I just, I want to get home so I can finish packing and like I want be outta this hospital. And the doctor comes in and 2, 2 30 sits down and says essentially, I don't know how to say this, but you have cancer and it is really bad.
You need to see an oncologist in the next 48 hours. Here's a referral. Go home.
And that was I, uh, out of body experience for me. Like I remember tunnel vision, like looking at myself from the back of my head, like, how, what? And he, he shares that she's has, um, cancer in her colon, uh, in her lymph nodes and in her liver. So
yeah,
it's pretty metastasized at this point. Obviously I'd like, I know nothing about cancer.
I know it exists. I know it's a horrendous thing at this point. I know nothing.
I feel like the first time that it's like directly impacted to you, that like hits differently.
Yeah.
And then they tell you just go home. Like
what the Yep.
That's the crazy part.
Yeah. Well, and, and I get it. Like there was literally nothing they could do at that moment.
Yeah. So like, I, I do understand and I, I tell the story a little flippantly now of just like, go home. But, uh, in that moment, I don't think it felt like that. But looking back it was just like. I can't help you.
Yeah. You
know,
and I, uh, we just had the outgoing CEO of community mm-hmm. On the, um, on the pod not too long ago.
And he talks about, like, from a national perspective though, getting seen by a specialist in 48 hours is actually really good.
Yes.
Um, and, but it's just like it's a really long 48 hours. Yeah. When you're the family that's had the diagnosis.
Yeah.
So you guys go home.
Yeah. Be before we go home. Uh, we get to the car and Amanda looks at me and I think this was just a good indication of how the rest of the journey went is she gets in the car and says, really?
I have ass cancer. Of all the cancers I could get, I have ass cancer. I couldn't even get a cool cancer.
I'm not laughing, I'm not laughing.
I, I thought, damn. I tell it because that was a funny way to look at it like. This horrendous thing. We thought infertility was gonna be our thing. Right. And
yeah.
Now this horrendous thing has just punched us in the face.
Yeah. But I do think, especially with cancer, so I'll, I'll give you my mom. Yeah. Passed away from cancer, uh, in 2017.
Okay.
Um, and I remember being in the room when, uh, the doctor pulled me out in the hallway and said that it had metastasized to her brain.
Yeah.
And that it was, this was gonna be the thing that does her in, and, uh, it is to this day, the most, the, uh, I humbling Is that the right, like the conversation just like, makes you feel so small.
Yes.
Um, and it just opens a whirlwind of emotions. Kudos to Amanda for being able to like, that would just like, that's exactly what I feel like a lot of people. Like the, the, that's a, the attitude.
Yeah.
Because it's like, it's a, it's a shitty situation. Yeah. Right. And a lot of times people's attitude dictate how the battle's gonna go.
Yeah. How the journey's gonna go. People that come in there with a really good attitude, like can extend that longer. And it's the, the medical, I don't know what the, the science says, but there's something to do with positive attitude that helps, you know? Yeah. Longevity there. So. Agreed. You Get IN the car.
Yeah. She has, has cancer.
Yeah.
And then we go home and I, she goes to use the bathroom, shower, whatever she was doing. And I look at my phone and, uh, Google colorectal cancer and. It was, that was a mistake. Um, bad
idea.
But
they all say not to do it. And you're like, no, I can do it. And then you get it and it's bad.
Yeah, it's bad.
Yeah.
Um, the survival rate is like 15% for over five years, so I knew this is gonna be What
year is this when she's diagnosed?
She was diagnosed in 2017. She's 34 years old.
She's 34. And you have a 3-year-old?
3-year-old, yep.
And this is diagnosed in 2017?
Yes.
What month? Like what time of year?
Uh, it was, uh, October 16th.
October 16th.
Our son would, would've turned, uh, three on Thanksgiving, you know? Yeah. So we were planning to take 'em to Disney World, like do all the fun things and yeah.
Okay. So you Google this?
Yes.
Five years is 15%.
I put my phone away and tried to sleep at 8:00 AM when the doctor's office opened.
I called first thing. Oh yeah. Yeah. We got your referral. Uh, doctor will call you back.
You mother?
Yep. 11:00 AM We were told we needed to see somebody like 48 hours. Yep. Uh, we've passed it on to the doctor. We'll, we'll call you back. Okay. 2:00 PM we'll call you back. So then I start panicking. I don't know if that's the right word, but I, I start calling everybody who can get us in.
We need to see somebody today. And luckily one of the local hospitals here, um, the receptionist answered and she puts me on hold and says, I'm, lemme go talk to the doctor. And the doctor moved their schedule around to see us at 4:00 PM that day. So we go in and, you know, he's, he's a little jovial about it, right?
Like, oh, we'll, we'll fix you, no big deal. Like, we've got this, we'll do 10, 10 treatments.
Yeah.
That's it. Okay. So that was like the next goal was 10 treatments. And then over the next two weeks, it was insanity. Um, CT scan, another confirmation CT scan, a PET scan, which is like a full body scan. Um, she has a colonoscopy to confirm again.
Um, she has a PET scan or um, a port rather installed where they can basically direct access, uh, for chemo. And she starts her first chemo regimen two weeks after diagnosis, so on Halloween.
And does that feel for you guys in the moment? Does that feel quick or long?
I think now it feels quick, but there was, it was like a new thing every day.
Yeah.
Like we were just going to the hospital every day for a new something. So they. They really moved, it feels like moved mountains.
Yeah. To,
to get her in.
I feel like sometimes when you're in the battle, it can feel like it's not going quick enough.
Yeah.
And then you look back and you're like, holy smokes.
In two weeks we did all of that.
Halloween is the day of her first chemo.
Okay.
Um, so my son and I go do trick or treating. She has something called a pump where basically she does treatment in the hospital and then gets a slow dose of treatment for the next two days. And so that, that round of treatment, you know, it's six to eight hours in the hospital on Tuesday, and then you come back for, they disconnect the, the pump, um, on Thursday and by Saturday she's sleeping basically all day.
For people that might not know when you are going through intense chemotherapy mm-hmm. Like, describe that. Describe being, uh, having a front row seat to watching that.
One of those things that. You, you don't realize how much it takes out of you and you never get to fully recover. So, you know, I, I've described it to a friend, like after the first chemo in her recovery time like that, that two week period, she was only at 98% and then the next time she was at 94% and then the next time 89%.
Right. And it just, your body never gets to fully recover. Um, and you never know when something is going to happen, so you are always on edge there. Um, there was one time our son came down with the flu and so we had to like go to the hospital and get her a flu shot and have her be monitored for, for a day just to make sure she didn't also have the flu.
Yeah.
Um, there's just so much of it. It, the nice thing is it becomes routine, um, you know, like you're doing this every two weeks over and over and this is this the cycle, but then. You do a kind of check-in, scan, um, kind of through, through the treatment and it didn't work. The cancer is still growing or the cancer is unchanged.
So then you gotta change regimens. You gotta change the cycle, you gotta change the side effects.
How, how often or how quick after the first, like how many treatments did she have to do before they did more scans?
Uh, I think it was four after four rounds.
So was that four weeks,
uh, or was it eight weeks?
Eight weeks.
Because it was
like a two week cycle.
Okay.
Yeah.
So now you're into like your son's birthday.
Yeah. Christmas.
How was her morale after first round?
Um, good. I, I think she felt strong. She felt, I'm gonna beat this thing. Yeah. There was never, during her whole journey was, this is the thing that's gonna get me.
Yeah.
Like, she's just, she also never wanted to know how bad it was, um, which I understand. And it was hard knowing.
Yeah.
Because I had to have those conversations with the doctor, but she never wanted to know.
I think that I, I like that.
Yeah.
I think it's hard. Mm-hmm. Uh, I remember my mom also did not wanna know, you know, like she would like maybe hear about different, but like never wanted to know timelines or like, like don't tell me.
Some people are like, tell me how long I have. Right. And other people are like, Hey, I just wanna, like, we just find a new milestone. Mm-hmm. You know, like it's make it through this round or make it to Christmas or Easter or whatever the thing might be. And I think it's like those little wins that can keep the spirits high.
Yeah. Agreed. She, um, I dunno if you're a fan of Harry Potter, but, oh,
love Harry
Potter. Okay, cool. Um, so she had some amazing friends that created Amanda's army, you know, instead of Dumbledore's Army. Yes. Yeah. And so they would surprise her on days where she was feeling down with. Cards or FaceTime calls or people like the outpouring of support and love that she and we had was outstanding.
Yeah. It is the only way to describe it.
How old's your son at this point?
Yeah, he turned four, um, about two months before she passed.
He doesn't really understand. No,
no,
no.
Not mom's. Mom's sick. Mom's tired.
Yeah.
You know, and, and it's, it was a bunch of little changes, right? Like Yeah. Instead of watching TV on the couch, we'd watch TV in, um, in the bed where mom was, we would nighttime routine as we would go read in, in her bed, right?
Our bed. Yeah. And not in his bed. Yeah. Or in his chair. So it was, he just understood Mommy was sick.
Yeah.
But had no. I, no idea how bad it was.
How are you doing at this point?
Uh, surviving is probably,
yeah.
You know,
like what year? 34, 35?
Yeah. I, uh, 33. I, I'm two years younger than her. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. But early thirties, young kid.
The, the hard part is from the day she was diagnosed, I went from like secondary parent, you know, I'm, I'm not doing all the drop offs. I'm not making sure like I'm just, 'cause she worked in town. I did not, um, in, in Brownsburg. And so, but the day she was diagnosed, I'm primary parent, I'm primary caregiver, I'm doing all of the things right.
Yeah. And so I was thankful. My job was very understanding and just you give us what you can give us, you know, if that's two hours today, awesome. If that's eight hours this week, fine. Like just, and her work was also the same, which was fantastic. Um, and so, you know, just. I like to describe it now that I was just moving forward.
Yeah.
Like I was just, whatever the next thing is, the next hurdle, the next place my son needed to be, the next time I needed to take her to the hospital, whatever. Like do the one thing that's in front of you and stop worrying about the 19th things that are piling up.
Are any of the treatment plans working?
No. Not there was one cycle. She, she did 16 months. There was one cycle that the cancer didn't like. It shrunk 1% or something. Like it was minimal, nothing. She ultimately went through five different treatment regimens. Um,
what were the doctors say?
It just, it was very metastasized basically. Yeah. And you know, like each, each regimen they, they obviously give you the, the highest percentage of success as your first regimen.
And so as you work down the line. They're less successful. And at, at one point, um, I think this is April, 2018, um, the first doctor is like, I'm out of options. I don't have anything else here that I can do for you. And so I start panicking and again, and I called 25 cancer centers across the country and basically said, help.
Yeah,
we'll send you anything you need. I don't know what I'm doing. Our doctor said, I don't know what to do with you anymore. I'm sorry. Like, I don't have a treatment for you. You need to go look at clinical trials. You need to go somewhere else. And so I amazingly got connected with someone at Johns Hopkins.
Um, I had a fraternity brother, um, that was on our international board at the time that. Got us a referral into MD Anderson, which is the number one cancer hospital in the country.
Yeah.
Um, outta Houston,
right?
Yeah. Outta Houston. Yeah. Um, we, we also, uh, we were gonna go to New York, um, for just kind of a break from cancer.
Uh, and we ended up getting a, an appointment at Memorial Sloan Kettering. Like I went everywhere. Nate. Yeah. I, I just help.
And how were you figuring out or learning what to do in this situation?
I asked help a lot. Yeah. Just, I don't understand. Can you help me? That Johns Hopkins person I mentioned can, were in the clinical trial area and they said, I don't have any clinical trials to get you on, but you send me any questions you have, you send me every scan, you send me whatever you need, and I will help you.
When you reached out to people, what did that message look like?
It was a lot of just like, I'm terrified.
Yeah.
You know? How I'm, I'm gonna lose my wife.
Yeah. How do you put that into words too? Like to, it's almost like a sales email. Like not to, not to like put this in a different, but you're like, Hey, so you need them to read the message.
You need to read this email. Yeah. And to like know that you're a real person.
Mm-hmm. Ultimately ended up at Simon. Um, yeah. We, you know, we talked, talked to several cancer centers, we got referrals and basically most of them said, Simon is where you should go. Simon is fantastic. MD Anderson said, um, we want you to come back.
We want to try to get you on a clinical trial, but we will coordinate all of that stuff with Simon.
Nice.
Yeah. And so we, we made the switch in April, um,
from where?
Uh, we were at Methodist originally.
Yeah.
Um, and then went over to Simon. Um, and we found the most fantastic human being, the most fantastic doctor.
Um, and his primary nurse, they just, they cared. You know, they were, they were, here's our cell phones, here's our email, I'm available at any time, whatever you need. And so, one o'clock in the morning, dropping an email. She's having this, what, what about that? We're concerned about this. 15 minutes later, here's a response.
Like, these human beings we're just the best people that, and so we were wildly happy with our experience at Simon. Um, the care center, the, the team,
what goes into rating and experience with an oncologist,
it's bedside manner in some way. Like he, Dr. Helft genuinely cared about Amanda. Yeah. Genuinely cared about her wellbeing.
Whether like he was completely comfortable with being honest with us and raw and explaining anything we wanted explained. He would take the time with us. Yeah. In in the treatment rooms. Right. Like that mattered.
I think that's the true art of being a healthcare provider and that's I think what, what can change the ones that are really good at research and like the person who's gonna cure cancer is probably not, I don't know, I don't want to generalize, but like, might not be the same person that you'd want to treat your cancer.
Yeah, I
can agree. Agree with that. You know, because sometimes it feels like you're in those conversations and they might be talking. They're just so smart.
Yes.
And that you need them to like slow down and realize that like though they. Though they might have said this or done this treatment plan. Mm-hmm.
A hundred times. Like this is your first time.
Yeah.
Some of the best providers create the space for people to really ask questions and to really understand what's going on.
I became an expert in Amanda's cancer. You know, being able to understand, read medical reports, like all of that stuff came because I could have that candid conversation with the doctor.
Like, Hey, I read this in this thing. What, what does it mean her gallbladder is not noteworthy? Well, it just means there was nothing interesting about it. Like, it looks normal. Oh, okay. Well that's cool.
That's good. That's good.
Um, right, but you know, you don't, in medical terms, like all of that stuff is just way over my head.
I'm computer science guy, graphic guy, graphic design guy. Like I have no medical background at all. Yeah. Um, and so being able to ask those questions to, to your point is,
so, so you guys end up switching over to Simon?
Yep.
Uh, do you know what time, uh, like in the journey? This was like month?
Yeah. This is like April of 2018.
We did, there were two kind of main regimens. You, you do one and then the other. Yeah. Um, and if those don't work, you kind of work, work your way down. Right? Yeah. And so, um, it was very similar, you know, once every two weeks and then they started thinking about just holistically, like, how can we make her feel better?
Yeah.
And um, the, one of the doctors consulted with a radiation oncologist, um, and they said, well, maybe we can do some radiation on the primary tumor to give her some relief. And then somebody else, uh, came in and was like, well, I can drill a hole through the tumor. So her colorectal cancer was like at the end of the pipe.
So she was like constipated all of the time. Um, because she just couldn't get anything out. And so she then started, stopped eating because it was just, she was just so full all of the time.
Yeah.
And you're taking pain meds and so you get more backed up and, and it just problem after problem. Right. And so,
yeah.
And you think about like just gut health in general, like, it, it's crazy how big, like the gut just affects like total wellbeing Yes. And like all that, so I, Ugh. Yeah. Yeah.
So, um, we went up to somewhere in Carmel, I don't remember exactly where, but, um, and they literally drilled a hole through the tumor and she was relieved for the first time in, you know, almost a year that she was able to like, have a sizable Yeah.
Relief.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like that changed everything because then she could start eating again. Then she could start. This and that, and it was a little easier to move and it was a little easier. This, and, and so to your earlier question too about how overall care, like you're starting to think about the life of the person, not just treating the disease.
What is their quality of life? What is the way that we can make sure that she's here as long as she can be, you know? Yeah. Her, her goal was to, um, to see our son go to kindergarten. Right. Like that's a momentous occasion.
Yeah.
Obviously she did not make it that that long, but like that was the fight.
Yeah.
Was to get to that point.
Yeah. Those milestones are so important. My mom was to see me graduate from college. Yeah. Uh, and she was diagnosed my sophomore year. Yeah. And so we were like, oh, well she was like rediagnosed with lung cancer. Okay. So I ended up transferring home to get my associate's degree.
Okay. So that it was like, make it till May and she made it till April. Oh. But it was like every month it was like, we're there like we're getting closer. Yeah. Like here's the report, like grades are looking good. Got all A's and let's keep rolling. Let's keep rolling. And um, and it just like shrinks the fight.
Yep.
You know, 'cause like living to like normal life expectancy 87 years or whatever. Mm-hmm. Like that's so big. Like
Yes.
Like to get someone to wrap their head around like, I gotta do this for 60 years.
Right.
55 years. That's a long time.
Long time.
But like, I had do this for 55 days. Yep. I had to do this for the next 55 days and then, you know, 60 days, 90 days after it can start to really extend those things.
Yeah. Like hitting those milestones. Yep. 2019 comes.
Yep.
And you know, treatments are just not working the way I'm sure that everyone had hoped they were.
Yeah.
Where did the moment. When you guys started really looking at like holistic quality of life and what options look like, uh, to make the most out of the time that you guys are promised.
Like I mentioned at, at Simon, they, they really cared about the whole, the whole process, the whole quality of life. And, and so our doctor suggested like, if you were exhausted by this, let's take a break. Let's take, let's take one round, let's push it out, and you guys go on a family vacation. And so we took our son to Disney finally, um, which was magical as you can imagine, the
happiest place
on earth.
That's right. And, you know, so it was, it was those kind of little things. And, and around, um, Thanksgiving in 2018, she was given the, the lowest effective chemo regimen. It was 10% effective. So. Nothing basically. Yeah. And um, at that point we were at also at MD Anderson. They got us, um, on a clinical trial, which was fantastic.
Um, we show up and her blood counts are too low, so we have to fly back home. And so our doctor gives us a, a blood transfusion and then we get to try again. You know, two weeks later we get to come back and at this point, this doctor has a sidebar conversation with me because again, Amanda doesn't want to know.
And I'm asking like, Hey man, we're gonna be flying to Houston every two weeks and level with me. Is this the right idea? And he said, honestly, I could give you this drug here. I don't think it's going to do anything, and you are gonna wear her out so much. Just traveling every two weeks for treatment and.
I I don't think it's a good use of time. Like you have a limited amount of time and it's coming.Well, so, um, we,
so you get that sidebar conversation. Yeah. I wanna dive into this a little
bit. Yeah, sure.
She doesn't wanna know.
Mm-hmm.
That's a very, like, I, is she relying and are you guy, are you making these decisions? Like, you get that sidebar conversation. Yeah. And is it like a, Alex, I trust you and what you think is best, or, we're gonna talk about this together.
Or like, and how is your guys' relationship growing and changing? And, and like how you were talking about, okay, we'll start there.
Yeah.
We'll start there with those conversations and we're gonna dive into this a little
bit. Yeah. Yeah. She trusted our oncologist. Yeah. And if that was the recommendation that he has, that's, that's what we're gonna do.
And. So I have this sidebar conversation with him, and she is not on chemo at this point. This is very early January of 2019. Yeah. Um, and we're like, we're, we're going to Houston, we're gonna Houston, we're gonna Houston awesome. And she ends up in the hospital, she's just in excruciating pain and we're supposed to leave to go to Houston that, that Monday.
And she's in the hospital from Friday till Monday morning. And so luckily I didn't have to have that conversation, that decision with her of like, we should not go. But, you know, we were, we were open and she knew by my demeanor, like, something has changed. Like this is, this is not gonna go the way I want it to.
You know, I think that our relationship just, it. It was very different. Right? Like you are watching the person for almost 10 years of your life just deteriorate and she's, she's sleeping all of the time, right? She's just struggling to do anything normal.
How are your guys' conversations?
Yeah.
You know, like when you sit down and talk about, Hey, when you get better we're gonna go to Disney and Yeah.
I can't wait until you, what's your son's name? Can we, uh,
Riley,
I can't wait until you get better and get to see ri go to kindergarten and grow up and go to prom and all those things. Or like, how, how were the conversations that you guys had?
Yeah. She, up until the day before she passed, she had giant plans.
Uh, we got the news that she was gonna be put on hospice on our 10th anniversary.
Happy anniversary. Right. Um, and even, even in that, she, uh, she loved this band called 311.
Yeah.
Um, she saw them 62 times in her life. It's wild. Um,
I don't know the band 311, but one person seeing them 62 times has to be near the top.
Uh, no, there are, are
they like cult following?
Yes. Oh wow. Okay.
Like people in the hundreds, we have friends that are, they have traveled all 50 states to go see them. Like one show in every state. Like it's wild. They're a really big band from the nineties. Um, they still are putting out music. Uh, they're like all time leaderboard of the band sticking together. Um, it's the four original members, or five members, excuse me.
Good for that.
They do a cruise, um, on 311 Day March 11th. She's in hospice and is, uh, home hospice. She's talking to the hospice company about how she can go on this cruise. I'm not kidding. Uh, we
can, we can do that.
We can do that. And I'm just like, this is a terrible idea. And she's dreaming about you go get remarried.
Um, like a Yeah. Renew your, yeah. Renewing your
Vs.
Yeah. Yeah. So she's talking about that we're gonna do that and like, we've gotta go get our passports and like she's just dreaming of all of the things she could do.
Yeah.
And she had no idea. I'm very thankful for now is, at one point, probably about six months before she passed, she we're sitting watching TV and she just pauses it and says, I want, I want you to get remarried.
I was very not ready for that conversation, as you can imagine.
Yeah, man.
Um, and. She was like, I, I need you to promise me a couple of things. Whoever it is.
Dude
is heavy. I'm sorry.
No, don't be sorry. Don't be. Yeah. This is what this room is built for.
Yeah.
Like these conversations, man. Yeah. Like the way that you are carrying on and sharing Amanda's story is incredible.
Thank you. And I appreciate you being so vulnerable here. Yeah. So you sit down and you have this conversation with Amanda and she says, I want you to get remarried.
Yeah. And she says, whoever this person is has to love our son. I like he is hers and she says he's not allowed to watch Harry Potter until you have read the books.
Yes.
Yep.
Shout out,
shout out, and don't raise an asshole. That's it. Those are my requirements.
So you pick up, you pick up the Sorcerer's Stone and start reading, right? That's
right. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, can we just say the level of selflessness that it takes to lead with that? I can't imagine being put into her shoes and having to do that and having to look you in the eyes and say that because like the selfish nature of the normal human being is like, no one will ever love anyone the way that I do.
Like no one can replace, like, don't ever get remarried because you would like, and I just think that her taking the initiative and having that conversation speaks volumes about her character.
Yeah, I agree. And
how do you respond to that?
I don't need to have this conversation. We're gonna be fine. You know, and I think I knew it wouldn't be fine.
And like I said, now, I, I appreciate that we had that conversation.
Yeah. It's a tough balance.
Yeah.
When you're dealing. A terminal illness
Yes.
Because you don't want to admit defeat.
Yep.
And sometimes that can keep you from having impactful conversations.
Yeah.
Personal example.
Yeah.
Uh, when my mom got diagnosed, I gave her a blank notebook.
Yeah.
And I was like, document your journey. Like share your prophetic wisdom of life. Sure. And, um, imagine that, you know, imagine someone just gave you a piece of paper and said, tell me everything there is to know about you and all of your best advice for life. Like, that's so heavy.
Yes.
It's so out there, you know, like you could write anything.
So like, and as the cancer progressed and moved into her brain, like it became hard to put words and sentences together. And so I, but I didn't check in on it. I didn't like. Hey, how are things going with your journal? And like, there's some really good stuff in it today, but there's also, like I say, like we had spaghetti for dinner last night and it wasn't very good.
And I'm like, not really the prophetic wisdom I was hoping for. Yeah. It's a regret of mine. I wish I would've just sat there and said like, what is your advice for this? Yeah. Or like, what do you think about this? And like actually had those conversations versus just thinking, like being so afraid to talk about, um, the legacy piece of it that we never had those conversations and we never get to have those conversations now.
Right. So I think that's a delicate balance you of like, how do you talk about what happens if the worst happens? Yeah. Without, um, admitting defeat. Yep. You know, like,
yeah.
I don't know the right answer to that listeners out there, but it's just something to think about.
Yep. Agreed.
Sorry, back into this.
Yes.
You guys are. It's March, it's 311.
She's put into hospice January 24th. Uh, 2019.
Okay.
She dies February 5th.
Oh, okay. So we don't make it to 311 Day. We
do. We don't.
Okay. Put into hosp. January what?
24th? Our 10th wedding anniversary.
That's your 10th wedding anniversary? Yep. Um, she goes into hospice.
Yep. And at this point, how old is your son?
He had just turned four.
How do you have the conversation with your 4-year-old son that his mom is going into hospice?
Amazingly, the, the hospice group has some social workers. I, it might be the right term, but they actually came and were, were present to have that conversation with our son, you know, when we, she was in the last week or so, like, they would come to the house and.
We all's family were together. And
who, how? Like extended family?
Um, yeah, like, um, uh, her parents. Yeah, her, um, her parents are divorced, so remarried, um, and brother, you know, all of that kind of around. Yeah. And a person comes in and just shares with our son that basically mom's body has stopped working and that at some point soon she's going to die.
How does he respond?
Um, so at this age, it's very hard for kids to process this. And so it's, it's like, oh, okay. And then he disappears and goes play.
Yeah.
Then he comes back 20 minutes later, I have a question and he disappears for two hours and comes back and I have another question. Right? And so that's how their brains just process at that age.
Um, yeah. Someone in the room said, mommy's going to sleep. And we had to immediately shut that down because I don't need a 4-year-old terrified to go to sleep that he will never wake up again.
Yeah.
And so like you have to be raw. You have to just say the word.
Yeah.
Die death. That has to come out,
which is like hard.
'cause I'm sure whoever you know, says that. It's like, that's well intentioned, you know, like, so and so is going on to their eternal sleep or, and it's like, well, hold on. We don't, there's just so many layers to that.
Yeah.
What was the harder conversation from like an emotional experience? I'm thinking of like, oh my gosh, I don't know.
Yeah. I, I think my son is the one.
Yeah.
Because when I, I told him on February 6th, like the cry was like, I broke his bone. Right. It was a physical, deep, raw cry, you know? And six, six years later, almost seven years later, like, it's clearly it still gets me, you know?
Yeah.
I, I don't remember the, the conversation with the doctor.
I know what happened. I don't remember the details. I don't remember how I felt.
Yeah, you almost like blacked out.
Yeah. Kind of.
Yeah.
But like, this one
crushed me. And I feel like it's probably different too when you're on the receiving end versus the delivering end.
Yes.
And, and truthfully, it's like, I'm sure your son's raw reaction is honestly what your raw reaction was.
Like, you just are older and Yeah. You know, like, it's probably not as, it's probably frowned, not frowned upon, but like, you know, you just like keep it together a little bit there, but like. That's probably internally how you feel as well. Yeah. You know? Wow.
Yeah.
So February 6th?
Yes.
That was the day,
uh, February 5th.
But he, he stayed over at a friend's house that night. 'cause she, she basically was unconscious for the last two days. And so we knew, um, there was, there was a nurse that it was coming and they're like, it's, it's gonna be very soon.
That last week that you guys got to spend together.
Yeah.
Um, so she went into hospice on the 24th.
Mm-hmm.
So seven, about almost two weeks.
Yeah.
Take me through just emotionally, like when you come to terms that things are gonna end.
It was a lot of just hard emotion of, you know, like she. She couldn't walk. Like her body was so weak and in so much pain that she could not walk to the bathroom.
Yeah.
She did not want to eat.
Right. And she just was sleeping 22 hours a day. Right. And it's just like out.
Yeah.
Um, and so you just sit there and we had a lot of family that came around, like local family did the dishes, brought us food, cooked us dinner, like whatever, and they were fantastic. And also crazy annoying because Right.
Like I just, I just want my house and I just want happiness again. Right. And it's just chaos.
My statement was, you would've thought, so this is rural northern Indiana. Okay. Where I'm from, you would've thought that desserts cured cancer. Like it was a long Yes. Processional train of like. Peach cobbler and cinnamon roll.
Yeah. And like you would, like, Midwestern moms, grandmas all believe that desserts cure cancer. I agree. I gained like 15 pounds. Like
Yeah.
Love them all. Yeah. I appreciate. And lasagnas, oh,
there you go.
Lasagna. There
you go. Come
on full
circle. Uh, and and I, I shared with a lot of her friends, like, this is, this is it.
And so friends were just coming by in droves of like saying goodbye final hugs.
Yeah. Man.
You know, um, people flying in like in the last month. 'cause everybody knew, right? Yeah. And they didn't know when the day was gonna be, but everybody knew. It was soon
through that whole journey.
Yeah.
You said 16 months.
Mm-hmm. I believe. What was the biggest lesson that you learned from Amanda's battle with cancer?
I learned and now reflect a lot that we do only have a limited time. And we should do all of the things right? Like Amanda always wanted to do everything and it drove me crazy. Um, but she lived 80 years,
right?
Hell yeah.
In, in 36.
Hell yeah.
Oh my gosh, we gotta do this. And the laundry pile and the the, and like, no, just go experience, go make those memories because you don't know how long,
how much time do we waste on the couch or Right. Do we just dick around and Yes. Not actually go and do the things that we say we want.
And sometimes, you know, you might want to do that. Yes. You know? But it's like if you have things on your list that you want to go and do, like, stop convincing yourself all the reason that it's not the right time to go do it. Yeah. And start figuring out how to make it the right time.
Yep.
You, you said the biggest lesson that you learned was go and do it.
Mm-hmm. Live life. You don't know how much time you have. You need to get out there and you need to live life. And I think that anyone who's experienced. Death at a young age. Mm-hmm. Whether, obviously for you it's a spouse, like death is meant to be, it feels like experienced when you're old.
Yes.
You know?
Um, and so I always find that people who face that early in life just find this deeper level of motivation to do insanely. Incredible things such as this journey, uh, with Ketchup to Cancer.
Yeah.
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So talk to me about how you channeled pain to fight against cancer.
I, I've struggled with my weight for most of my adult life. I, um. I've often focused on other people and not myself. Yeah. You know, it's, oh, she's pregnant, let's go get milkshakes. Well, if I'm getting milkshakes, I need to get a milkshake too, obviously.
Right. And so, um, I, I had come to accept in my life that I was gonna be the guy that was gonna put on 10 pounds every year. And that's just gonna be my life. And one day I will be ginormous and it is what it's right. And February 5th happens, I lose Amanda.
Yeah. How big are you?
Um, at my biggest I was 2 76.
Okay.
So big, big dude.
Large.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not small.
Not small, okay.
Not small. Um, and so I realized my son shouldn't lose another parent because I can't take care of myself.
Like, when did that realization come?
Um, this probably may, so a couple months after she passed. Right.
Okay. I would say like, rather quick.
Yeah.
And it's interesting. I think that is, uh, such a good, I mean obviously it's a good realization to have, right? You know, like, duh, Nate, but like, due to no one's choices, your son lost his mom.
Mm-hmm.
This would not be due to no one's choices. This would be due to your choices.
Yep.
Like, think about us internally, me, myself today.
Mm-hmm. Of all the ways that I look into the mirror and I say like, oh, it took not up. Like I just accept it 10 pounds a year. Like, come on, it's all right. Like, like that's so, like, you deserve that. Or like, you're just a little bit nice to ourselves. Mm-hmm. Uh, and this is not me saying don't ever be nice to yourself, but like, I think you gotta be honest with yourself.
Yeah. And so it took you two months. Yeah. Which is I think a fantastic turnaround time to like look in the mirror and say, Hey, we're gonna make a change.
Yeah.
So what was the, like, what was the conversation you had with yourself?
I looked back at. Pictures. I realize I was not in many, I didn't wanna be in a picture with Amanda and our son.
'cause I was not happy with how I looked, how I felt about myself. And now I, I just, I missed out on all of the memories, all the videos together, all of those things. And I was, I didn't want that for our son. Right. I needed to, to make that change.
Yeah.
And so, um, one of my, uh, buddies went to this gym here in, in Indy called Exercise Inc.
Um, it is, it's wild. Um, it's a 20 minute workout once a week. It is slow movement. Uh, five machines, no more than three minutes per machine. Slow 10 seconds up, 10 seconds back. And it's activating your muscles like the whole time as a single parent. It's like, I don't have time to go to the gym. I don't know what I'm doing.
I can find 20 minutes a week.
Yeah. And I think that is so spectacular to get going.
Yeah.
Because like too often people like, it's like, okay, now I'm David Goggins and I'm gonna go crazy. And they, they get like two days and they wake up and they're like, this shit's hard.
Yes.
I click like, this is what it takes to be healthy and fit.
Count me out. I can't do it.
Yeah.
But 20 minutes a week,
I can find 20 minutes a week for myself. Yeah. You know? And so I decided this is the time to start investing myself. And so 20 minutes a week, I've been going there six years now. Um, and it's amazing. Like, I felt like I could pick up my son better, easier things didn't hurt as much.
Like I was making notable change. I was, weight was falling off. And, and part of their, their program is they, um, they have you make a little change each week. So, you know, this week it's drink four cups of water this week it's, you know, eat two servings of vegetables. Right. It's just little tiny changes.
Yeah.
Um, and it stopped being so overwhelming.
Yeah.
Like, I've described it before, it was Everest for me. Like losing weight was Everest. I had to climb that thing and it was so daunting. Yeah. But if you're just making little tiny changes they add up over time.
Absolutely.
I'm doing that. And then, um, little thing called the, uh, pandemic hits.
And we, I've stopped going to the gym. I do some virtual workouts. It's not, doesn't feel the same. Uh, my son, his daycare has what they think is a case of COVID I in early March, and I'm like panicked, like I'm unhealthy, I'm way overweight. I need to pull my son out of this thing. Like people are getting.
People who are overweight are, you know, impacted more statistically on this thing. Like, I'm pulling him out. So I pulled him out and we, he and I were at home basically together for a hundred and some odd days, very least
like five at this time.
Uh, yeah, yeah. Very minimal contact, right? You know, some social distancing, grocery, uh, pickups.
You're, you're just like, I cannot expose myself to this because again, he should not lose another parent. And so this is like a panic kind of low key panic of like, okay, well then, as you can imagine being at, at home for a hundred days with a 5-year-old son,
what could go wrong?
Right. I was going crazy. Um, and so, uh, July 3rd, 2020, I, uh, I signed up for the 500 Festival Indianapolis 500 Mile Challenge.
Uh, shout out to them. I walked. 500 miles over the course of 102 days. I figured out that if I kept up at a certain number of miles per day, I could finish on my birthday. And how big of a difference that would be for my life of just being able to, like 2019, Alex would never have gotten off the couch and now I've just completed 500 miles.
Like, that's incredible. And if I can walk, maybe I can, maybe I can run. Like that's a, that's a wild idea. I've never been able to, to run, you know, since I was a little kid. That's just not something I could physically bring myself to do. And so I start, and I spent most of my 500 miles at Eagle Creek, um, and, and did hiking.
You're
walking or running 'em?
Uh, walking. Then I start running, uh, Under Armour has a hundred mile challenge. So I sign up and do that. And this is late November, early December, 2020.
How far was your first run?
Uh, probably a mile. Like nothing crazy.
Yeah.
But, you know, being able to, it was a lot of like, okay, I'm gonna run for a minute, walk for a minute, run for two minutes, walk for two minutes.
Right. And it's kind of interval. Yeah. And then when I was able to actually physically run a mile, what if I can do two? What if I can do a 5K? Right. It was just this wild, like, what if, what if, um, I'd always dreamed to run the mini. Um, I remember growing up how big it was and like this great, fantastic experience and there's no way I'm never gonna be able to do that.
Yeah. That's a, that's a silly dream. Um, so fast forward a whole bunch. Um, I. I run a, a virtual mini. Um, I, I realized
first one's virtual.
First one's virtual. Yeah.
Yeah. That's, that's sick.
Yeah. It's so good. I,
that's even harder. I would say
it
like, I think it's easier to run at like an in-person race. Yeah.
We had the fans and the like go out there just like you just went out and ran 13.1.
Yeah. In just did it in my neighborhood. Yeah. Nice. Yes. So good.
Heck yeah.
Um, well, so I, I tried to do intentional things and so on the anniversary of Amanda's passing on February 5th, um, the first year I went to New York and saw like a Broadway play and went to this restaurant we'd always wanted to go to.
And on the second year I was in this, this journey and like a, a week before I ran 10 miles and felt good. And so I ran a half marathon on February 5th in the ice. Freezing cold. That's right.
My dude.
Yeah. That's sick. And so I signed up for the mini. I'm like, this is gonna be fantastic. So cool. It is virtual, it's, it's my pr uh, the best run I've ever had.
It was awesome. And then I just, I start running some, the RUN(317) series, uh,
yeah.
Grabs my attention. So I start running those and then I sign up for the Mini in, uh, 23 and I get to run in person. I get to run on the track and like I've been, um, a season ticket holder or, you know, go to the 500 for many, many years now.
Yeah. And so it's very cool and iconic. And then I say to myself, what if I could run a marathon? And that was completely wild. This idea of a guy just two, two and a half years ago who would never get off the couch. Is now looking to dream big and run a marathon. I run Indy Monumental, uh, it was my first, my first race.
Um, I had had an injury along the way, and so the longest run I'd ever done was a half.
Yes.
Yeah.
And you still toe the line?
I, yeah. I did it. And so,
yeah,
every step, once we, we got past broad Ripple Avenue, every step was the longest I'd ever run in my life.
And that backside through Oh, my Riverside Park,
yes.
Ooh,
that backside of that race is tough.
Yes. And we get to, to Newfields. Yeah. Um, and my, uh, now fiance and my son are there, um, and I wave them, you know, he's cheering all excited and I wave past and I turn around and I give the biggest hug from that, that kid. And. It was everything I needed to get me through.
Better than any gel.
Yes.
Totally better than the Gatorade.
Yep. Oh, man. And because I'd never run more than a half, I didn't understand fueling, so I'm like starving. My body is in shock, right,
dude. Yeah. That's stuff like, you're like, oh, it's just a myth, whatever. And it's like, no, it's not a myth at all. Like, oh yeah,
it was rough.
So I, I finish, uh, come around the bend and, and finish, um, Indy. And my son is there cheering. And uh, again, my now fiance said, well, hey, congratulations. Now you know what it was like for next time. Next time, what do you mean next time? I'm never doing that again. And she likes to retell the story that about six days later I started looking at more races.
I think that's the usual, it's like at first you're like, oh yeah, this sucks. Like, blah, blah. And then you're like,
yay.
So to get that itch again, you're
like, oh yeah,
I'll do another one.
I'll do another one. And then I said. I want to do all of the six World Marathon Majors. Yeah. Which is New York, Boston, Chicago, London, Berlin, and Tokyo.
I'm gonna do that and I'm going to become what's known as the Six Star Finisher. Hell yeah. And for me to do this though, I need it to mean something a little more. And so I started a journey as a charity marathoner, um, and committed with St. Jude, uh, as my primary, um, charity and committed to $6,000 to run the New York City Marathon.
And what an, that was an incredible experience, being able to run, run the city, the five boroughs, raise all this money. Yeah. Um, is fantastic. And, and then I wanted to, to run Boston. And mind you, I'm, I'm 38 at this point. Um, I decide my birthday is next month at this point. I'm gonna run the three US majors in a year.
Um, I'm not a super fast runner, so to run Boston, um, you've gotta run like a three hour marathon. So that's 6 52 miles for 26.2 miles. Um, I'm nowhere close to that.
Yeah, me either.
Uh, so the only way to get into Boston is charity. Um, and those commitments are humongous.
Yeah. Like what's Boston's,
uh, Boston's 10 to, to $15,000 fundraising.
Yeah. Because New York's over six. Yep. Or over five?
Uh, it depends on the charity. For me it was six with,
and then it's 10 to 15 for Boston. And then how much is Chicago?
Uh, 3,500.
Okay.
A lot less, but
Okay.
So I'm
That's still in one year though. That's like over almost 25 grand.
Yes. In, in 11 months.
Holy smokes.
Yeah. So I start this journey. I have an amazing group of human beings, uh, that are just supporting and donating. And I, I crush the New York goal. I get there. St. Jude doesn't have any bibs for Boston because they change, um, it goes from one sponsor to another, St. Jude's out. So I like start panicking. I go apply to five different charities.
I do three different interviews. Uh, like it's a big deal to get spots into these majors because charities only have certain number of bibs. Oh, okay. Yeah. So like New York, 50,000 runners. Yeah. Let's say, um,
how many of them are qualified and how many of them are, uh, fundraisers?
All of them have an element of both in a qualifier or a charity.
Yeah. You know, so like for New York, maybe it's 10,000 charity runners.
Okay. Yeah. 40,000 runner runners.
Yes.
Not saying that you're not a runner runner, but a charity runner.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and some, some of those are lottery. Right. There was 1.1 million people that applied for London, uh, this last year.
Yeah. Every Berlin was high too. A guy was, I applied for Berlin. Did not. Did you Get IN? Oh, no. But it's like, whatever, one day, one day, one day. I'm just trying to stay consistent. One day I'll be a qualifier, go. If I just keep my like sub four hour marathon there, I'll be like a 60-year-old and then finally Get IN.
Yes. I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah. So, um, I do those, uh, I
So what chair did you end up with for Boston?
Yeah, so, uh, Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, um, they actually have a focus in on colorectal cancer. They're Boston-local. They're fantastic Charity. You
have to like interview
Yes.
To get Wow.
Application, interview process, second interview.
Like, it's, it's a lot. Yeah. And, um. Part of me is just trying to manifest all of this in, you know,
in one year.
In one year.
Like, it's not like, like I feel like, uh, the average person, like, does one of those a year, not all three in one year.
Yeah. Um, I, I think my fiance, uh, could not have rolled her eyes more when I was like, this is what I'm doing.
And she's like, ho, okay, we're in, we're in. Heck yeah. Hard.
Let's go,
let's go.
Where did catch up to cancer come from?
Yeah. So we, um, after doing those three I, uh, start fundraising for Berlin and my friends and family are tapped out. I've raised $30,000 to this point. Over 11 months they're done. Like, I'm not getting anything.
I've got a, a $6,200 commitment for Berlin and I'm panicking. Yeah. Um, and so. Uh, about a year before my fiance, uh, and I were at our, the Brownsburg, uh, July 4th parade. Yeah. It was raining and crummy, and she swore she saw somebody giving out ketchup packets at, at the parade and we're like, huh that, that'd be really funny.
It was sweethearts, but it just, it looked really funny and there were always these random businesses and stuff in it, and we're like, I don't know what, that would be funny to do. So I put that, put that idea in the back of my head. Yeah. And in, in June of this year, um, I look it up and it's, it's a $50 donation is all it takes to get into the parade.
It's like $50. I can, I can donate $50
Yeah.
And hand out catch packets. That'd be like, really funny. And I'm out mowing the lawn and I'm like. How can I
wait just for like the heck of it? You're like, just
for the heck of it,
you're okay. I'll just donate $50 and hand out ketchup packets for 'cause it would be funny '
cause it'd be funny.
Okay. Respect. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah,
I would do that.
Right? Why not?
Easy money.
Easy. So I was like, how can I utilize this to start to fundraise? How can I catch attention? How can I like catch up, catch up, catch up, catch up, catch up to Ketchup to Cancer. And I stop the mower and I run inside and I just say to Lindsay, catch up to cancer.
And she looks at me like, what? And I said, catch up to cancer. And then it clicks. Oh man, catch up to cancer. That's how we, that's how we hand out these ketchup packets and we actually use a condiment for a cure.
Yeah. Right.
And it's something that's silly enough and ridiculous enough, and I hate ketchup, but I hate cancer more.
And I buy 5,000 Red Gold ketchup packets. Uh, 5,000 packets. They're like 20 bucks for a thousand. Okay. I buy some stickers. I create a website. I QR code every hand sticker, 5,000 ketchup packets, and we do this parade, and we hand out 5,000 ketchup packets on July 4th.
Are you throwing them? Or like,
well, the throw to the people's feet, you know?
There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, and. Amazingly, I, I announced this, I raised $1,100 in two days. There is something here.
So did you q so you QR code.
Yep.
And then you tell the story on your website.
Yes.
And then you're like, now I'm running and
Yes.
Yeah. Yeah.
Now I'm running on the Berlin Marathon raising $6,200.
And I realize I'm actually, if I'm doing London and Tokyo and I know what St. Jude's commitments for both of those, those are 10,000. I'm gonna raise the marathon distance. I'm gonna raise $26,200 for the kids at St. Jude.
Wait, that's pretty crazy.
Yeah.
That's crazy how that works out. Right? 26.2. Yeah.
So that's it.I'm gonna start using ketchup.
Yeah.
To start a movement because I hate, hate ketchup.
Yeah. Yeah.
I hate cancer more. Amen. Let's, let's do it.
You have three points of the star thus far.
So I raised the, the 6,200 for Berlin. Uh, literally as I was crossing the finish line, uh, somebody made that last donation to put me over the, over the top.
Um, I'm about $3,000.
So you already ran, you just ran Berlin?
Yes. Uh, in September.
No way.
Yeah.
How was that?
It, uh, it was my hardest race experience. Um, it was 81 degrees when I crossed the start line. It was rough. But
yeah,
the experience of being able to go and the weekend, I, yeah, it was fantastic. I would not change it.
Okay. So we got the 6,200 for that one. Yep. Now we're onto 10 K. Yep. For London by April.
Yes. Okay. We're about 4,000 in at this point.
If people wanna support this
on Instagram at Ketchup to Cancer, uh, to ketchup, to cancer, um, and also ketchuptocancer.com. Uh, and that website links,
that's a fire website.
Thanks, bro.
Who made this
me?
That's really good. No,
thank you.
Like usually I feel like people's like personal websites are not that good. Yeah. This is a really good website. Thank
you.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. 6,200 for Berlin. 10,000 for London. London. And you're gonna round it out with 10,000 for Tokyo. Yep. All this is, well these three all go to St. Jude.
Yes.
And this is a really interesting part about St. Jude, right? Yeah. Is that I believe like no families get bills.
Yes.
Right. Or how's that? I don't know the official thing there, but I know it's something like that.
No family ever receives a bill for treatment, housing, travel, food, nothing.
That's crazy.
They take the worst, uh, pediatric patients. Um, they have a research wing that they are doing fantastic things for cancer research and able to, um, when it was started in 1962, the survival rates of, um, a certain form of leukemia was like 10%, and now it's over 80%. There's this a different one that's nearing 94% survival rate because of the research that.
Yeah.
And you know, as an aside, those first two weeks we talked about, we received a $400,000 bill.
$400,000.
Yeah. For what that was. That was the PET scan. That was the surgery, the colonoscopy, right. Like all of those initial stuff, $400,000 and I didn't know what to do. Right.
Wait, what do you do?
We just hoped our insurance would help.
$400,000.
$400,000. And that's why St. Jude's mission, to make sure no family receives a bill is so important to me because you don't need that stress. You should focus on what's important. And that's your kid fighting cancer
two weeks into this journey. Yeah, 400 racks. Yeah. Holy smokes.
And each chemo was almost $30,000, like each treatment.
And obviously like it goes through insurance and like Yeah. A lot of that gets like, but I mean even the initial shock of just like, oh my gosh, there's a $400,000 bill here. That's just extra stress.
Yes.
In a time where that's just not what you need.
No, not at all.
Alex, man, what a heck of a journey.
Thank you.
Just openness to talk about very tough topic, I think is commendable. I do wanna, as we're kind of closing out this, and then we'll wrap up with some fun Indiana questions, but how do you talk to your son about his mom?
Unfortunately, he was young enough that he doesn't remember her much, you know? Yeah. And so it's having the pictures, taking the videos, you know, whether, whether you think you look gorgeous, fantastic, stunning, or you look like a total bum.
Right. In sweatpants. Like, take the pictures.
Yeah.
Because someday you're, that's all you're gonna have left.
Yeah.
And so I, I think having those memories and understanding that, you know. It's okay to miss mom. It's okay to cry. It's okay. We, we like to call them button days in our house. There's a, um, someone described shortly after, uh, she passed that grief is like a box, a ball, and a button.
And when the traumatic event happens, that ball is just pressing on that button. And as time passes, the ball gets smaller and starts bouncing around.
Oh yeah.
And eventually it does hit that button.
Yeah.
And so whenever we're having a tough day, like, and grief is striking.
Yeah.
It's button day. And so being able to understand and talk about those and communicate is something important.
And then I, I also tell my son that you have the power to hurt and you have the power to lift up and. Doing stuff to inspire, doing stuff to create good in the world is what Amanda would've wanted,
man. Very powerful.
Yeah.
Um, I think that that is a hard conversation that I'm sure even if one person out there, if one person out there is in a similar circumstance or scenario to you all and is having trouble talking to their child or just like, wants to know how they can handle that.
I think that is, uh, that's such great advice, man.
I, I also like to say that forward is a pace. It was climbing Everest to get off the couch, but just taking that first step can, can make a difference. And obviously in running some days our hard runs and just, just walking, just moving is enough that day.
Yeah. They're not all prs.
No they're not.
Yeah. If there was one thing that people. Could take away from Amanda's story and learn from you and her and everything you guys have been through, what would that be?
You never know who's on your sidelines and that matters. In running, you know, on on race days or also in our lives, you don't know who's watching, who's paying attention, who's willing to show up if you just ask for help.
And there, there are people in my, my journey that have donated that I haven't talked to in 30 years.
That's a long time.
But you never know who you're inspiring or tearing down with your words. And you have the opportunity to to lift people up. And so the people that showed up for me during Amanda's 16 months and for the six years afterwards, I eternally grateful to them.
And there are people in your lives. Yeah, every listener here, there are people that are willing to show up if you just ask for help.
This has been, uh, an incredible episode. Thank you. Uh, one that's obviously a cause that's unfortunately close to my heart as well. Uh, I also don't really like ketchup, but I really don't like cancer.
Yeah.
Great tagline. Thank you. Um, I encourage people to go check out, ketchuptocancer.com. We got 16 grand left to go to get through these last two. I, uh, encourage people to follow Alex on Instagram. Uh, just there needs to be more people out there putting out uplifting content into the world. I think that everything you put out is so great.
Thank you.
Um, and just inspiring man, like I think that the way in which you've handled the cards that were dealt to you are, is incredible. Like. Um, one piece that I've just learned is man cancer is really, really, really, really hard for the person that's diagnosed and it's still hard for the people that are the closest to them.
Yeah.
Um, and it's just a different heart.
It is.
Um, and I think using that experience and turning that into a positive and a way to impact others is just so stinking commendable, man. So I appreciate you, appreciate you coming on and sharing. We are gonna round it out with some Indy
Can't Wait
Indiana questions.
We're gonna maybe bring it back up a little bit. There we go. Yeah. Um, again, man, I just, I loved hearing your story and um, I appreciate you. Yeah. Being vulnerable and sharing questions all around. The state of Indiana first question is brought to you by our friends at J.C. Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond.
Check them out at homeisjchart.com. My question for you, Alex. Why do you call Indiana home?
I love so much about Indiana. I live on the west side. I have access to literally anything I want to do. Concerts, uh, Broadway shows, uh, sports, an amazing culinary scene here in Indianapolis. Like Indy feels like home.
Like I, I've not always been a Hoosier, you know, I've been here for 30 years and it just, it means so much to be here. Schools are great. We have, we have a village and not just your local neighborhoods, right? It's the Indy community from running communities, et cetera. It's, it's fantastic.
Best place to run at.
Indiana
Eagle Creek is kind of my default. That's where I've spent a lot of my miles. Um, yeah, I, I do a lot in my neighborhood though, so. Um, don't have a, don't have a ton of experience. Yeah. Monon Trail is really cool. Yeah. Uh, it's not close to where I am, but it is, it's fantastic.
Yeah. I think I, yeah, I'd say Eagle Creek for sure.
Yeah.
Uh, there's some good stuff out there. Are you a trail runner?
Uh, a little bit. I dabble.
Okay. There we go. One tip you'd give to someone that wants to start running,
it doesn't matter. Your pace, just taking the step. I have logged 4,200 miles all because I started walking. You don't have to go run.
Yeah.
I think that everyone thinks that when they start running it has to be like the gym class mile. Yes. Where you're like dying at the end of and it's like, no, my favorite runs are just like a nice conversation pace with, and it's a great way to like, I don't know. Nowadays I like catch up with friends while we run.
Yeah. Catch up. Get that. Yeah. Come on. And, uh, hang out. You know, and it's like we go out early in the morning 'cause you know, no one's busy at five 30 in the morning. Right. Let's go out, let's talk, let's chat and let's get some miles in. Yeah. It's like,
love it.
I think it's. It's fun. What's on the playlist when you're, when you're running a race?
Um, well, your pod obviously.
Yeah. There we go. Come on.
Yeah. Uh, I, I listen actually to a lot of podcasts because, um, I tend to be in my head a lot when I run. Uh, and so just having the conversation helps keep me focused in on what I'm doing and not any like negative talk, like, this hurts or I'm going too slow, or, you know, not focused in on that.
But yeah. I have a race playlist that's like six and a half hours long of just like random stuff. What's the song
that just gets you freaking going?
The start of every race? There's a, the Spider-Man soundtrack from
Oh yeah.
The like animated, um, uh, Spider-Man from a couple years ago. There's, uh, "Start a Riot"?
Let's, that is like my, my start line song.
That's fire. Heck yeah, man. I love it. Um, yeah, I think it depends on like if I'm going on a slow run Yep. Or like, I'm just like, yeah, here, hang. Like I can go. Uh, and put on like a podcast or a book. Yeah. I'm really into books now. Okay. Um, but if it's like I'm ready to rock, it's like I gotta have something that has like a good Yeah.
I like tie my feet up with the beat and I'm like, I love
that.
What is the dream with Ketchup to Cancer? What's the long term goal and strategy? Or not even strategy, what's just the long term vision for catch up to cancer?
Yeah. Well, I'm very excited to share, this is the first time I've publicly said it.
I have now have an Indiana nonprofit corporation called Ketchup to Cancer, and I realized my run journey, my marathon journey is done after Tokyo. And I think there's something here. I think charity runners get a bad rep in, in running a lot of times. I think they are doing fantastic things for the world.
And so my goal is to lift up charity runners.
Yeah.
Help, help them fundraise, hit their big goals and their dreams and. If I spill some ketchup along the way, so be it.
I love it. I love it. Congrats. Thank you. On officially having, uh, a nonprofit organization here in Indiana, uh, I think that's awesome. And yeah, I think it's like, you think of these campaigns and it's like you get your six points Yeah.
And then help others. Like, I think both, I think running for a purpose is just, it's like a match made in heaven. Yeah. Like every runner is running for some sort of purpose. Yeah. Like no one, very few people are just going out there for just love of the game. A lot of people are, whether you're getting through something or it helps you feel better, like there's always a purpose around it.
And no, not everyone is, you know, Boston qualifier fast. Right. But I think tying a purpose to the reason why you're running it, just like is such a natural thing. Yeah. So I love it. I think it's so smart, man. Um, and I just think it's making a huge, huge impact. Uh. For St. Jude right now. Yeah. Like, and thank you.
Yeah. Soon to be more families and hopefully this, this gets in, this is one of the big fundraising arms that helps eradicate freaking cancer.
I hope so.
All right, final three questions that we ask everyone who comes on the show first, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana?
I think people sleep on our culinary scene here.
I, I am wildly impressed with the, uh, all of the restaurants that we have in Indianapolis area. We've got a Gordon Ramsay Steak in, uh, down near Louisville. I had no idea. It's in, in a casino down there. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and I, I think, you know, the, I really enjoy like the Michelin-star, um, shows and, and all of that high level, um, culinary stuff.
And I, I think Michelin needs to check out Indy.
Come on now. I agree. Alright. This is your chance to shed some light on a part. I mean, one you just did. I had no idea that that was a Gordon Ramsay Steak. That's pretty cool. Uh, but what is a hidden gem in Indiana?
Eagle Creek Park is one of my favorite places here in,
it's actually not a state park.
It's a city park.
It's not, it's a city park.
One of the nation's largest city parks. Huh? Eagle Creek Park.
Eagle Creek.
Operated by Indy Parks & Rec. It's a spec, it is a true gem of a city park for sure.
Yes. I, I've logged more than a thousand miles walking those trails and running them. And it is, uh, we do family pictures there like.
I love Eagle Creek. Yeah. And I'm so glad that, um, it's there and accessible to people and, and the trails are well maintained and it's, it's a great place.
Amen. Alright, finally, this is where we get guest recommendations and I get to learn about other people out there doing inspiring things. Who's a Hoosier?
We need to keep on our radar. Someone who's doing big things.
Yeah. So I have two, um, Bo Railey and the team at Exercise Inc. Um, they are doing fantastic work, helping people of all ages get stronger, and they're doing that with 20 minute workouts once a week and I cannot speak highly enough about them. And second, we spent, obviously spent a lot of time talking about healthcare.
Um, the company I work for, Zotec Partners, the leadership there, Cory Law, um, Tom Cavanaugh. I'm in product. They care about the healthcare experience for patients. And so I'm, I'm excited that I get to work there and help make that journey a little better for people receiving a bill.
Medical billing, baby Zotec Partners.
That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well up by 31.
Yep.
Yeah. Uh, that's awesome. Okay. We'll, uh, yeah, keep them on your radar. They're doing, I, I was an Orr Fellow, so there's been tons of, or fellows that have come through Zotec. Nice. Alex, it has been a pleasure to share the microphone with you. You too. And about you and Amanda's journey, uh, your, yeah.
That battle with cancer. I think that far too many people are gonna resonate with this, um, which is good. Yeah. That they're gonna resonate, but unfortunate that people still, you know, have to deal with that. But, uh, I think that the way that you share is, uh, so inspiring, man. And I think that, um, even if it's one person at a time, like keep going, like, yeah.
Even me, like I'm fired up, coming outta this conversation and getting to talk to someone else who's been close to cancer and has been affected by it. Uh, you help me. Uh, and I'm, I'm inspired to continue to talk about my, my mom's journey and everything there, uh, because I gotta spend time with you today.
Yeah. So I appreciate it. Keep up the good work. Thank you. Also, like this episode was largely about the cancer journey, and, but then it's like on the other side, like your fitness journey is also incredible. Thank you. Like, just take a step, like, just like. Perfection is the enemy of progress. Mm-hmm. You know, like how do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time. A
hundred
percent. Amen, man. So I appreciate it. It was a pleasure to get to hang out with you and keep up with good work.
Thank you.
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