coming together, but for one common purpose. An independence for the inmate, independence for the client, and just purpose. Complete purpose. Yeah, German Shepherds do look pretty badass. The goal would be more like an undercover TSA. Like, they know what's going on.
There's two living beings helping each other out. AI is not going to solve that issue. From like Earth to graduation and placement, how does the process work? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hooser State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends at Bloom Rank.
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com/get-in. That's getbloomrank. com/get-in. Let's get into today's episode. My guest today is Jillian Ashton and she is the president and CEO of the Indiana K9 Assisted Network, Ian, where she leads Indiana's only accredited service dog organization. This is a nationally respected nonprofit that changes lives for children, adults, and veterans living with disabilities.
We're also joined in studio by a few more special furry guests. We've got Goldie and Poppy. For anyone watching at home, this might be the cutest episode of Get In that we've ever had. And we're dropping this at the start of International Assistance Dog Week. We're going to talk about the ways that these canines are making a huge impact across Indiana and how do they get this uh esteemed honor of becoming a service dog, the vigorous training that goes into it, and how you uh Hooser can get involved and uh help support the cause. So uh Jillian, welcome to the show.
Hey Nate, thanks for having us. We're grateful to be here and be with you. I mean, Goldie is absolutely stealing the show right now. We've got a we've got a tired puppy on set on camera right now. This uh this is going to be a fun one. I'm really really excited to dive into uh the these dogs journey.
So, how old is Poppy? Yep. Poppy's ready to graduate and she's a little over two years old. And then this little Goldie, she's about 11 weeks. So, she's at the beginning of her journey. So we have both both phases of this kind of going into the program and getting ready to graduate and come out of the program before going out to big big dog assignments.
Uh what I want to talk about before we get into the training program is the problem that you guys are all helping solve at I can and how these dogs are impacting lives. So take me through like identify okay what is the the need for service dogs in the state of Indiana. Yeah. Well, we we actually solve problems on both sides of the leash. So, initially we've got um dogs that are placed within, like you said, adults, children, and veterans that are in need of some kind of mobility um psychiatric or some type of support from our dogs. So, our dogs can do a lot of different things when they're ready to graduate.
They can open doors. They can pick up um items off the floor. They even serve as a social bridge because so many people who experience disability might not want to be out in community because they're intimidated or maybe don't feel like a part of the community. And the dog serves as like a social bridge to be able to come into an environment with a cute furry friend, but they do some really specific tasks for that individual. Um, even with our veterans, like individuals who experience anxiety in in social settings, those dogs will come up and behind them maybe nudge their leg or just put support on the back of their leg just to let you know like, "Hey, I got your back. I'm here."
So, something as simple and subtle as that can actually help people navigate the world in a more confident way. How does an individual end up getting recommended or uh you know the ability to get a service dog? We don't have to do much advertising because people find us um as the only accredited service dog program. We're able to to be out in the community. People Who's the organization that accredits that? Yeah, great great question.
Assistance Dog International. So, it's a membership organization that comes in to your operations and evaluates what you're doing from a financial, from operations standpoint, standards and training, making sure that you have really strong um policies and procedures in place and they come and they look at your whole operation and if you pass then you are accredited from that program every 5 years. This is like a oddly specific question, but do you know when service dogs became popular? like when did when did service dogs start getting into the mix across the world? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, they actually started in Europe.
Um, and most people identify a working dog as a guide dog. Um, and that's really the first time animals were used as an extension to somebody's environment where they had like a real job, I would say. Like they had they had a real job. Yep. they were able and it you should see videos of this because there's dogs that are um in Europe that are going across train tracks and things like that that like if you see it you're like oh my gosh this dog's going to get hit by a train track cuz the training just was not very formalized at that point and this was probably the early 1900s and then um it slowly evolved and probably in the last 20 years or so dogs have been more there's been an expansion especially with technology cuz people who are not sighted, their technology opportunities change maybe how long they can stay sighted. Wow.
So, I think the the the part of dogs being able to serve people physical with physical disabilities really evolved around 25 years ago and started to take off. And that's about when I can um started here in in Indiana about 25 years ago. Yeah. Like a quick search says service dogs emerged in a few distinct waves. Uh while dogs have assisted humans for centuries, the modern service dog movement began in Germany in 1916 uh with the world's first formal guide dog school for blinded World War I veterans. Yeah.
Like that's wild for over a hundred years. I mean obviously they've been supporting and you know friends man's best friend for forever but like in a formal like a hundred years of employment per se for dogs. But it's really come to a fruition in the last I mean I feel like yeah in the last 25 years from you know working in law enforcement to anxiety and mobility see like there's just so many ways that dogs are doing I mean like I've always wanted what was the commercial do you remember like the Bud Light commercial I think it was where they named the dog we go and it was here we go and it would go grab you a beer from that's what sold me on dogs. I said if I could get one to do that, I would have one forever. What got you excited about I can? How did you end up uh getting involved with the organization?
I was in my early 30s. I had a very busy job and um What were you doing? I was working for American Heart Association as a fundraiser. So, you always been in nonprofits? Pretty much. I owned a small uh marble and granite b business at one point which is a a very tangent of what not for-p profofit but it was in 2008 I bought it and um it was pretty much a not for profofit because the housing market crashed around that time.
So that business didn't rock it it oh very f and there were a lot I I learned um a lot from the school of hard rocks too. There you go. Yeah. I was going to say probably a pretty hard time to start that business. It was we were um we we were really focused on our Lowe's partnerships. We had partnerships with Lowe's and that's kind of what kept us afloat.
But that being said, it really I I do say I got my MBA from the School of Hard Rocks because it really did provide me the background I needed on a financial side to run an organization. Well, that's interesting because a lot of people I feel like the uh the stereotype would be you get into the nonprofit sector because you have a passion for philanthropy, which is probably very true. And it's like it's not like you don't have to make profit anyway. The business doesn't m it's like just don't make a profit. That's pretty easy, right? But there are always expenses that need to be paid, right?
There's employees. There's like in our situation, there's dog food, vet bills, things like that. So not for profofit, I I really appreciate the experience that I had in in my roles as fundraisers, as volunteer development, um again the business side, running a balance sheet. But with the I can I I came across it was shortly after 911 and I went to a meeting um about how dogs were helping people at ground zero and how they were doing rescue and recovery. And I thought it was so interesting. I'm like, well, who in Indiana is doing something with dogs?
And I found um there was a a national organization called uh K9 Companions at the time. And I was like, "Oh, I would love to volunteer with them and try to figure it out." So I went to this meeting, met a couple people, and all of a sudden this woman kind of out of left field came over and she goes, "Oh, are you interested in being, you know, some volunteering with dogs?" I said, "Yeah, I'm young professional. I really don't have time for a full-time job dog, you know, but I would love to help out and volunteer." She's like, "Well, I got this great program.
We have some dogs. Three dogs are in the program. We put them in prisons. We do this." And she's just going on and on. I'm like, "I have no idea what this lady is talking about.
like inmates, dogs, service dogs. I was like very confused, but I gave her my phone number. And within like a week, um, and I actually lived here in Broadripple, and within a week, a dog showed up on my front doorstep, a little black lab, a bag of dog food, and a loose leaf piece of paper with like the five commands that she knew. And they were like, "Can you just socialize her?" And I was like, "This is your formal volunteer training. Like, this is this is it."
And um lo and behold, I got I fell in love with this organization. So I can was the organization that this woman was representing. And um I immediately figured out that this is just an incredible opportunity not only to serve the people with the service dog at the end of the training process, but then because we have a partnership with the Department of Corrections and we train the dogs in prison and those inmate handlers go through a formal job interview. they're selected and they have the opportunity to um impart something with the world right from where they are. Yeah. And and and make maybe amends for some of the mistakes that they've made.
Um they go and you know be able to support this dog's training and their facilitation and then all of a sudden they get to be able to be part of the community um right from where they are. So this is like multiaceted. So you are helping train and develop service dogs for people, adults, veterans, kids with disabilities. Nope. But through training, each dog gets about two years of training. Two years of training.
Yes. The two years of training is done in the Indiana Correctional facility. So it's like you're also help uh involved on that side of things. How did how did that whole mission like how did you put all those puzzle pieces? Who put those puzzle pieces together? So, our founder um Dr.
Sally Urban, she had a vision initially that we would help um at risk youth and so we started the program out of the Pendleton Juvenile Correctional Facility and those individuals. She really wanted to impact young adults who were just finding themselves in trouble all the time and try to mitigate their risk of maybe going into prison. So, we took a couple dogs to the facility there and they would work with them for a couple hours a week. And what we were finding, as impactful as it could be, the the kids were not staying in the correctional facility for a long period of time, which is good, right? We want them back home that we want them back in school. And so, we weren't able to really get the dogs trained at the level that we needed them to be because there just simply wasn't enough hours that the that the kids could do.
So then um at this point I'm a volunteer. I'm on the board for the organization and Sally presents to the board like maybe we need to look at a different training model and what if we went with adults and what if we looked at the department of corrections. So we um explored that opportunity and we placed three dogs in the Rockville Women's Prison on uh February 14th of 2002. And that was our opportunity to actually get those dogs initially into an incarcerated situation, but those women just poured all they could into getting these dogs ready to to um graduate. Now the unfortunate part about our program and this is an an international statistic about 50% of the dogs actually do graduate and we can get into that like what the reasons behind that but out of those first three dogs that were placed one was placed with a little girl with Down syndrome and um that began I can the I can that we know today.
Wow. Okay. First off, how did the process go of finding the three women in the Rockville women's facility? Yeah, it's um very much like a job interview. Were you and you're a board member at that point? I'm a board member.
Were you in the job interviews? I was not. I was working. So, unfortunately that that full-time job, you know, kind of would um kind of pull you away a little bit, but the staff went in um and they really partner with the Department of Corrections staff as well. They identify people that probably have the right attitude, that are ready to take on the responsibility of a dog full-time because again, it's it's a 247 responsibility. Did the dog live in their quarters?
They do. Oh, that would be I mean that's like a huge lift of the spirit, I would say, to be like chosen as a handler, a trainer. It's a very special opportunity. Um, and they do live with them uh 24/7. So, but if they get sick in the middle of the night, you got to get up and you got to take care of it. If they um need additional training, you've got to plan for your time to be able to do that.
So, it is a it's a hard commitment and you and we're talking about individuals that um may or may not have had any type of responsibility for other than themselves prior to going into prison. Yeah. So this might be the first time they have the opportunity to care for something. But it does kind of lead to like purpose, you know, like if you wake up every day and you have a purpose versus just like watching hours and minutes tick by on the wall. Like I feel like that would be for the right people with the right kind of attitude would be a very lifegiving uh opportunity. Oh, absolutely.
And and Nate, I would say my favorite part of the program is when we select the client at the end of this process or I would say maybe the beginning of the process, right? Cuz now the partnership is happening where the dog is going to the client that they're going to help serve. The client actually comes into the prison environment and we do what we call team training in that environment. So for 2 weeks or so, the inmate actually transfers the knowledge that they have about the dog. They transfer the knowledge that they have about training and specifically training a service dog and they do that with the client one-on-one. So, they get to actually have the opportunity to see their work come to fruition.
They actually get to work with that client. And, you know, we we place children. So, can you imagine as a parent, you know, you're bringing your 14-year-old kid into a maximum security prison and you're trusting us to facilitate this and you're trusting the individual on the other side to be able to facilitate this connection. And it's my favorite part of the program because it's like two very unlikely people coming together but for one common purpose of just independence and independence for the inmate, independence for the client. Um and just purpose, complete purpose. Yeah.
You're like kind of just trusting in the org of like, okay, you're not going to walk us into like a bad situation. And but then on the back side of that, when you see that, you know, at the end of that two week process, you're like, wow, how miraculous. Yeah, they're just they're just people. Um, and if you can look beyond the mistakes that they've made and both I think both have experienced trauma. Um, you know, the inmate has their story to share about why they're there, how they got there. And then the individual who experiences the disability also has trauma.
Like they they're act they could be disabled because of an accident. They could be disabled because um, you know, of of maybe something congenital, but they both are isolated from the community. What are the other ways that service dogs are trained? So, obviously your guys' program is going through using um the correctional facilities and and people who are incarcerated as the like two-year trainers. Is there I'm assuming there's like a privatized like you you go to dog boot camp for 2 years and then you come out and people can buy service dogs. Yeah, there's a couple different models um with assistant being a member of assistance dog international.
We are all not forprofits that um do the training in a little bit of variety of ways. We are unique in the sense that our dogs are in the prison for as long as that they are. Like that that whole 2-year process really is based out of the prison. With some other programs, they rely a lot on volunteers. Um, so they might have a volunteer that will take the dog from puppy to 18 months and then at 18 months they might put them in a formal training process at their facility or some of them do use prisons maybe as that finisher or maybe as puppy razors. But we're one of the only we we do have a unique model where we're one of the only in the country that will um rely so heavily on the Department of Correction to to facilitate the majority of training.
Wow. Okay. Like how many service dogs are active in the state of Indiana if you had to like roughly guess? Oh boy, that's going to test my um or like how many how many graduates are you placing every year? Yeah, we place about 20. Um and that can vary from you know and we've gone up as high as 30, we've gone as low as 10, you know, just Okay.
This is not like a ton of like a ton of volume. No, I we are um there there are some programs in the country that produce 400 dogs a year, but see even that is like not like I was assuming like thousands of dogs like you know like I feel like everybody you see it all over everyone's got like a a support dog in some sense of fashion and it's like 20 or 400. I was like oh I was thinking there was thousands of it's a long it's a it's a very um labor intensive process. Um, there's a lot of capital that goes into it because it's cost us about $30,000 to train one service dog and that's pretty typical of the industry. That's not just I can. That's a pretty typical 30 grand over two years.
Over two years. Holy smokes. And it's a lot of kibble. It's a lot of You're worth it, Goldie. She is totally worth it. Yeah.
I mean again if you are navigating the world um less independently you would do anything to be able to you know get the dog. But the beauty of our program is we don't pass that expense on to the client. We basically our our veteran clients are at no charge. So they they get the asset without you know having to pay. That's you golden. You're an asset.
Yes. Um, and then our other clients are only about 10% of that cost. And um, it's because of the generous donations that we receive, the the grants, the funding that we receive. We're we're privately funded. We don't receive any state or federal funding. Um, so it's all private funding that helps us support being able to get these dogs in the hands of people that need them.
When was the org started? 2002 on February 14th. That's official. That was the official. Okay. So before when you were talking about going into like the youth probation, like it was we were still figuring out what we were going to what we were going to be when we grew up and then it was we're we had three dogs go into the Rockville women's correctional facility and then one ends up getting placed.
This is interesting too. You talked about the graduation rate, I'm putting that in quotation marks, but is around 50%. What happens? Yeah, they're I mean we require these dogs to do a lot of non-dog things. They can't bark. They can't chase after squirrels.
They have to be very attentive to their handler the entire time. We're asking them to do things that are just just not canine like. So, um it requires them to have really great focus and dedication to um you know just what they're doing. And then there's also health issues. Sometimes there might be something that comes up that just we would not place a service dog with an individual that we knew that the dog would have long-term health issues cuz that's just not fair to, you know, you become very reliant on the dog as your partner and as your companion and then we don't want them to have to have the expense of, you know, having something Yeah. catastrophic happen to the dog.
So, so you'd say about 50%. Uh, so if you place 20 in a year, but 40 start the year roughly, right? So it's the worst business model ever. 50%. Yeah. If you were a manufact going back to my manufacturing days, like if I only, you know, produced 50% of my granite on out that I bought.
Yeah. I would I would be out of business. And what happens what happens to the dropouts? Well, we call them change of career. Ah, yes. Okay.
Change of career. So, we have a couple different options. Um, initially the dogs that really do enjoy work, and that's another part of this, like we want to make sure they enjoy the work, too. We would not want them like there's some dogs that are just like, "Dude, I do not want to do this." Like, this today is not the day that I want to go out and the heat and do this, right? So, we recognize that and we That's crazy that you can recognize if the if a dog likes their job.
Yeah. They're happy. They're, you know, they're it's it's like people you see the eye roll. They're like, "Oh, yeah. I got to go open another door. She comes again with the vest and you know all the things.
Yeah. So, we we pay attention to that. Um but initially if the dog does enjoy work but yet they can't do service dog work, we have a partnership with an organization um that might put them through scent detection cuz you know dogs have great sniffers. Their old factories are awesome. So um he basically does some technology um scent work with them. So that means that a dog could detect laptops or cell phones or SIM cards.
That is crazy. Very cool. Yeah. Very very cool. Like when they can sniff out like hard drives of and I'm just like what? Yeah.
And it's really in and police forces use those dogs a lot um you know for the protection of children because again it's um child pornography or some kind of um you know something in that vein. So the dogs that don't make it through our program, he will test them and and see if it'll work well for his program. I was so confused. I Okay, I'll go into that one. Like I was like how how can a dog smell that? Like and then and then someone like explained it to me and it clicked where it's like they can't smell what's on the hard drive.
They can just smell that there's a hard drive with stuff. And if it wasn't if it was something you were if it was like your family photo album, you would just hand that over and be and it all clicked for me there. I was like, "Oh, like when I had first heard it, I thought like how can the dog detect what's on the hard drive from?" And then I like Yeah. Then someone explained it to me like I was five and I was like, "Oh, I get it." Yeah.
Which is wild. It's very wild cuz they find them in the most obscure places cuz of course a good criminal is going to try to hide it in the best place possible and um so they find it in very obscure places. I recently saw a dog that um hunts or not can sniff out bed bugs. Yeah. To be in the service with someone with a disability is that like the ultimate like you have to have the utmost training or like what's like the Harvard like what what's like the end of like the pinnacle of dog training? We try to be really careful because all of it's good, right?
Whatever role the dog takes on is good. Even if they become a pet, that's good because that can change somebody's life, too. So, we like to think of it as like when you're an attorney, you have this type of training. If you're an accountant, you have this type of training. If you're, you know, a mechanic, you have this type of training. So, the the training that they most love and enjoy and that they're most successful at, that's kind of what we focus on.
So the options would be like service. Yeah. Are there various levels of service? Yeah. Like especially mobility, being able to balance, assist maybe somebody um walking that's unsteady on their feet. Um that's that that and that that could be just a physical trait.
A dog might have to be tall because their client's tall. Are there uh specific breeds like can any could like a great DNE pull up and join the ICAM program? It's a great question. Um, we've we've had all kinds of breeds in our programs over the years, but we do our own breeding program. And so now the majority of our dogs are either goldens um golden retrievers, labador retrievers, or we might um breed across of those. And so we have um a lab golden mix that seems to be the most successful for us.
Um they have the workability, they have the friendly ability. You know, if if you've ever come AC contact with a golden, you know, they they don't know many strangers or I feel like service dog that route would be golden versus like the police or like the TSA. TSA dogs are usually German shepherds. What's the difference there? Yeah, I think it's all matter of preference. Um I've seen a lot more TSA dogs be um labadors recently too, which and I think there's a there's a public perception.
Um, people tend to, you know, if you want a more friendly dog, you you tend to like maybe the fluffy golden or the Labrador where Yeah, German Shepherds do look pretty badass. They do look badass. They're like, you know, they're kind of just like, oh, like it kind of reminds me of like a police officer with like a flat top haircut, you know, like they just look like they mean business versus like the the golden would be more like an undercover TSA, you know, like it's like they're friendly. They're hanging out like they know what's going on here. They know what's going on. Yeah.
Okay. And so I I I new perception I think in the community. You you don't even see guide dogs very often now that are um that are German shepherds, which was usually, you know, what you associated with guide dogs um would be German shepherds. Uh what's like the most obscure dog breed you've had as a service dog? Oh, that's a great question. Um right now in our program, and I will mention when once we place the dog with the client, we support that client through the partnership.
So, that could be a 10-year partnership beyond the placement. And right now, we have a dog placed with a veteran that is a um 9PB Yorkshshire Terrier. Yes, Dobby. And so, Dobby is adorable. And he um you know, and initially when we started this the and this is where we do very specific work to the client. The client does not like big dogs.
She has a a a fear of big dogs. She was extremely shy um individual and she just really needed some support in the community to to be able to manage her PTSD. And so the last thing you want to do if somebody has PTSD and anxiety in the community is give them a dog that they are afraid of, right? Like that doesn't make any sense. So she um she selected this little Yorkshshire terrier and he is small but mighty. He he picks up um keys for her like the keys are probably you know a quarter of his weight and he picks them up and brings them to her when she drops something but more importantly just being out in the community with that dog.
This woman um she now even she'll she'll speak on our behalf. she'll speak in front of 300 people and tell her story where the first day that I met her um she barely came out of off the wall like she was a standing against the wall and she wouldn't make eye contact she wouldn't engage with you and now a couple years later she's talking in front of 300 people and um just to see her development has been amazing that is incredible and it's all because of a 9b little dog shout out Dobby come on wow so yeah you're true like Uh, the service talks can come in all shapes and sizes. If you're looking for a great Indiana getaway that doesn't require a long drive or a big plan, Boone County is worth your time. Zansville's iconic brick main street is one of the most charming streets in the entire state. It's lined with local boutiques, great food, and that small town feel that's hard to find anymore. If you're into the outdoors, the Big Four Rail Trail and Stone Eater Bike Park give you plenty to explore.
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How does the process work? So, it is like I said, it's the worst manufacturing program ever, but they're adorable and it works. So, um, at birth, so we we like I said, we do our own breeding. So, we'll identify maybe a dog in within our own colony that might be ideal for breeding colony. Colony. Yeah.
Like our our group of dogs that we have within our like that would be placed out with somebody that could either be placed out or maybe they'll just become a full-time breeder and that will be their job um is is to be a breeder. So once we identify that through a variety of um tests or temperament test and then obviously physical biological test that that our veterinarian does. Once we identify we will look for um a sire and so that sire might come from within our program or it may come from a program that we're in partnership with throughout the country. So, we might actually take a dog uh on a date and drive across the border to Ohio or maybe even to California and they have a date and then if we have a successful partnering then we have puppies, you know, 40 days later. So, we we try to partner with other organizations because it does mix up the breeding pool. It gives us different genetics.
It's important that we manage our Have you ever been a doggy date chauffeur? I have not been a chauffeur, but I have been um a voyer. What is Well, I've I've watched um the chaperon. I was the chaperone and I've watched like the date happen. What a wild What a wild career choice. I know.
The things that we talk about in our office are sometimes I'm like, who's HR? Because we probably need to have HR. It's like a modern version. It's like you're like watching like the Bachelor like Love Island or whatever like who gets the rose, right? Like who gets the dog? Wild the dog.
That would be great. That would that could be a good spin-off. Okay. So then they 40 days later that's like the period that it takes. Gestation. Yes.
And then you have a puppy or puppies cuz usually we can have a litter. Um like I think Goldie here was a part of 11. Um Okay. So 11 dogs. You have 11 puppies and those are born in a volunteer's home. So a volunteer I know.
I see your face. It's shocking. I know. They they basically take on the responsibility volunteer midwives. Got it. Midwives.
Very good. And then um as they're starting out, we start training the moment that they're born. So there are things that we do sensory wise. So we maybe do touch their paws in certain ways. We're touching their ears. We're moving them around so that they become very comfortable with people touching them and just being on on them all the time.
You got to be a star of the show. Childhood star. Come on. All right. So, we're grooming from the very beginning and then we have volunteers that help with that process. So, they may come into that um volunteers home and we have a schedule and they they work with the dogs cuz it's it's a lot.
11 puppies, especially when they become mobile. That's a lot of cleaning, a lot of a lot of things. I was like envisioning like the scene from 101 Dalmatians, you know, like where they're just all over the place doing everything. Wow. I mean, that's a pretty fun volunteer gig. It can be, but it's also, you know, a lot of responsibility because you're getting this next generation of puppies ready ready to go.
That would be an interesting one. Now, how do you vet out volunteers? They find us through outreach programming or um just websites website searches, but they they come and they express what their interest is and then we kind of work with them to identify where their skill sets are. Because I was thinking like if I was if I had like a some kids and you like wanted to like bring them through the like uh the the process of hey, you know, litter is born. We have a mom and then they're going to have 11 puppies and we're going to get them up off their feet, but then we also have to understand that they're going out to serve the world. Like that would be like a really interesting life lesson for like some 10-year-olds.
Oh my gosh. We have a couple volunteers that have little ones and it's such a great opportunity to teach them about doing something bigger than themselves because, you know, puppies are very easy to fall in love with. And it's very difficult to then try to explain like, okay, this is not our dog. We have to give it up or we have to help somebody else with this dog. And that that's a tough lesson for little kids. It's a tough lesson for adults sometimes to learn that like I I don't get to keep this dog.
So there we have all types of volunteers, families, we have retirees, we have working people. We have a great program at Indiana University. So um there's a group of students down there that um that basically will bring our dogs on campus and socialize them on the campus and take them to class, take them on the buses and things like that. Heck yeah. So we love our college students that work with us. So there there's a a wide variety of people that will volunteer with I can.
Okay. So birth some socialization early on. Do all 11 make it into formal training? How do you how is that like when when do we start uh getting different paths? Sometimes around 4 weeks old. They will go into the prison at that point.
And the what that's called a welp. Um, whenever you have a a dog give birth and you're going through the first eight weeks, it's called a welp. That welp will go into the prison. So, the inmates will actually then get involved and work with the puppies and get them ready all of them. So, like Goldie plus 10 siblings, all her siblings all go into the prison. Mom or no mom?
Um, sometime mom for a while and then mom we all say when when at what age? Four weeks old. Okay. That's when you no longer need mom. You can survive. She will be there for a couple weeks to wean and then she'll start to kind of um go on vacation and leave for, you know, leave for a while.
So, so you've got 11 puppies that are 6 to 8 weeks old somewhere in there in the prison. Yep. And then at 8 weeks, um they come out with volunteers. So volunteers, again, you'll you'll hear this this is this they're involved in the whole process. So volunteers will come and then do puppy raising and from 8 to 16 weeks they are doing the formalization of their their puppyhood. So, teaching them how um to potty in the right place, um walk on the leash loosely, introducing them to leaf blowers and um you know, noises, household noises like laundry and all all the things that you just want a dog to feel very confident that no matter what's going on in the world, I can settle and relax and just take a chill.
like I I we're just teaching them how to navigate their new world um as confidently as possible. So that's up until about 8 weeks or 16 weeks 8 to 16 weeks and then at 16 weeks that's when they start their formal training in the prison. And to your question about 11 puppies. Now sometimes we only have so many spots in the prison. So we have we're partnered with three different facilities right now. the Indiana Women's Prison and then the two um men's prisons up in Pendleton.
So, a maximum and a medium security. We have about 60 spots. Um so, if we have more puppies or more dogs than 60, we have to figure out a different plan for them. Um and like I said, we share dogs throughout other programs throughout the country. So, we might actually have dogs that will go to another program um in California or another boarding school. Boarding school.
Yes. Yes. And going back to the date thing, sometimes the payment for the date is a puppy for that program. So if they provided the the stud, then you know he has to do his parental responsibility and raise his own puppy. So they might get a puppy or two from the litter because of of that. So those dogs will go into uh volunteer homes for the next um you know 8 weeks or so.
And then at 16 weeks they go in the prison. And once in the prison then they start this cycle where they're in prison for 6 weeks at a time learning, growing, developing with the inmate and then they come out with a volunteer for 3 weeks. So that volunteer 6 weeks in, 3 weeks out. Yes. Wow. And that rotation happens until about 2 years when they're ready to graduate.
So six So that means volunteers could get various ages of puppies for 3 weeks at a time. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's a great way to like get your puppy fixed without having the full commitment of having a dog at home. Okay.
Wait, take me through the volunteer aspect then. Like how can listeners or people get involved with what you guys are doing at I can. We love volunteers. Um they we have about 300 currently um that that help serve in this mission and they do all kinds of things. They might do things like the litter sitting. They may do the puppy raising.
They may do what we call furlow. whenever they come out of the prison and they go back in the prison that's um what we call furlowers they can go out and do like outreach opportunities like we do a lot of corp corporations will reach out to us and say hey we want to do a lunch and learn about service animals and could you come in so we'll do a lunch and learn and we'll bring dogs we'll talk about what a service dog is what it's not the difference between therapy dogs versus assistance dogs what is the difference between therapy dogs and service dogs service dogs are tasked trained Ed, so they have very specific tasks that they are responsible. I know she's so adorable. Goldie says, "I know how to do tasks right now. She knows how to really eat kibble very well and do Yes. She's look cute.
Tough life." Yeah. And look very cute. But um so service dogs, assistance dogs, they are very specifically trained to do a task that would mitigate some kind of barrier for their client. um pick up things off the floor, open the door, um help people transfer from their wheelchair to the bed. Like usually there's um we can train them to come underneath somebody's legs to be able to get them to be from one position to the next.
So there's a variety of of things that they can do. A therapy or dog usually is there for um emotional support. They don't maybe do something specific for that individual other than just provide comfort. Yeah, that makes sense. It's like, you know, having a furry friend that is there to provide support versus like, you know, help retrieve something for you. Exactly.
Okay, that makes sense. How are the people in the correctional facility, how are they getting trained to train dogs? Cuz I think it's a hard part that a lot of people can fall short on is knowing how to train a dog properly. Cuz I mean even for pets, you know, like absolutely sit, stay, come here, do all these things, roll over, you know, like go get me a beer or what? Like those are all like fairly challenging things to train a dog. And so for someone in the correctional facility to be able to like over the course of two years train a fully capable service dog is impressive.
It is very impressive. Um our team works really hard. Um they go into the prison, they they train the trainers. So, we have trainers that train the trainers and we're working with them several times a week during class and then their responsibility is to do it on their own. And it's it's interesting to watch because these men and women um live together, they work together, they eat together, they do so they're they're helping and supporting each other, too. So, a trainer might have been doing this for 10 years where another person might be only doing it for two.
So that that seniority is going to help educate that newer trainer as well. But you're absolutely right, Nate. Like training a dog is not just about the the the one time like I got it to sit and do it's we build upon every everything is a foundational skill. So even like Goldie here will soon learn how to just like touch your hand and that touch we reward that but then that touch can become touching the the button on a door to be able to open it in two years. So every everything is a a fundamental build upon type of task and it all has meaning even if it's just doing something as what she's doing right now is she's just relaxing. Now this is kind of awkward right?
She's in my arms. She's got half of her head and foot on a table, you know, but she's learning that like I can settle and rest anywhere. And that's important because if you're a busy professional and you have a service dog and you're in a meeting and you're trying to, you know, broker the deal of the century, you you can't be having a dog that's going to be disruptive. And I think that that's been a big barrier. Um, I'm I'm on the board for Assistance Dog International. And one of the things that we've been really focused on is like ride share programs.
A lot of rid shares throughout the world will actually bypass somebody who has a service dog. What you know, you call up your Uber or whatever and they come and they drive by you and they see that you have a service dog, they will cancel the ride and they'll drive right by you. And so there is still a lot of discrimination that's going on in the world um toward people with disabilities and especially people that have working dogs with them. So we are constantly trying to educate the community about the need for these animals and the the purpose. And even though technology will help us advance certain things, it won't advance the companionship and the partnership because there's two living beings helping each other out. And AI is not going to solve that issue.
Yeah. I I mean, I couldn't say that better myself. And I mean, I'm just sitting here like watching anyone who I mean, this is your plug to go watch the YouTube, go watch the video part of this because Goldie is just having a heck of a time. Yeah. Wow. What advice do you have for people out there that might be training a puppy if they're trying to get um what have you learned about training dogs over your time being involved with I can?
Yeah. Now, I will tell you my staff will only let me puppy raise. They will not let me train because um I'm not a very good trainer and I re I recognize that, right? I Why aren't you a good dog trainer? I'm not very patient when it comes to things. I I can run a balance sheet and I know how to get culture going, but um I'm not very patient.
So, I think initially you got to have a lot of patience. Um but it is fun to watch whenever they get it. Like, you know, it might be the the 30th time that you've kind of walked through this um particular cue for the dog and they finally get it and you're like, "Oh my gosh, it's so fun to watch." But I think that's the main thing is you have to be very clear and consistent with animals in the training because without that um that that just they just won't get it and you have the timing of um the praise that you give them is very important. So to your question, like you know, when you're doing this type of work, um there's some really great resources out there, but I I think actually having an individual who is already pretty wellvered in training. It it's all again coming back to people that know how to do the job and and learning from them.
Wow. Now, here's a question. Do any of the dogs that go along the program, do any of them change careers into pets? Oh, yeah. And how do you end up getting a like partially trained service dog as a pet? I know.
See, that's what made me fall in love with I can because I got that puppy on my doorstep that first time and um she did not pass her test and then she became my my person my personal pet. Um so yes, we do have an opportunity for people to um adopt a dog. If if the dog does not um advance into a different career, then we have an application process and and a lot of our dogs are sponsored. So, individuals will come forward and say, "Hey, I want to support this mission. I'm going to support this puppy through its 2-year development. And if they sponsor the dog, sometimes they'll be able to name the dog."
And that might have a purpose, a meaning to them that's, you know, very unique. So, we'll offer the adoption to them sometimes first. Um Yeah. Yeah. Uh Goldie did not make it through, you know, XYZ part of the the had to change career paths to homemaker. Homemaker.
Yeah. Yes. And so now Goldie is open to come back and uh be your guys' That'd be pretty cool. That's very cool. I mean, because they have a lot of skills um on them, which is fantastic. Um, and then a lot of our volunteers or individuals who will adopt the dog sometimes will continue them in a therapy program or they'll do some type of additional training to because they they already have some really great basic skills and then they're able to take them in hospitals or nursing homes or something like that.
How do you train a dog to keep composure? Like I'm imagining, okay, um, someone who is some sort of disabled on like the side of the road in downtown Indianapolis and fire trucks or police cars and people and just noise and everything. How do you train a dog to be cool and and and gathered during that crazy portion? I think it's twofold. One, breeding is really important. So when we breed um we breed for not only health but also temperament.
So we're trying to select the best dogs that have very easygoing temperaments that that can you know withstand the scenario that you just described. The probably the second thing is those volunteers from that 8 week to 16 week period is such a small window of opportunity for a dog to be exposed to a lot of different things. And so we we do have um some requirements, some checklists that we want those dogs to be exposed to those types of things. And we have great partners in the in the community. Our our one office is located in Zensville. Our other offices up in Fort Wayne and the Zensville office, like the Zensville Fire Department, they're like, "Come on over."
You know, so they they are very accustomed to seeing our IAN dogs at the facility and we expose them to the fire trucks. They'll turn on the, you know, the bells and whistles for them. And so we just we try to have unique partnerships where people are understanding the ultimate goal is to get this dog ready to partner with somebody with a disability. So we've got to do all kinds of things. I mean even walking on grates, you know, when you're downtown Indianapolis, there's a lot of grates on the sidewalks. Like some dogs just don't like to walk over those.
I mean, as a human, I don't sometimes I don't want to walk over them because I'm like, what's going to happen if I fall through? Right? So, it's just weird stuff like that that they have to be exposed to that we really rely on our volunteers to to get them out in the community and and take advantage of all the unique things that Indiana has to offer. That's amazing. How can individuals, listeners, corporate entities get involved with the mission of IAN? Obviously, starting at our website, icandog.
org or is a great way to kind of just expose yourself to a little bit about what we're doing and and even if you have a loved one in your family that you're like maybe they could benefit from a service dog. Um we do currently have about 50 people waiting for a service dog and so um we we try to get them placed and it's usually not a first in first out kind of situation. We again partner the best dog with the best individual. Yeah. So, you could apply today and maybe have a dog in 2 months, or you could apply today and not have one for a year and a half. It all depends on the right dog, the right fit.
Um, but our website has some really good information just to kind of get you started. And then from there, we would we would love for folks to to be able to support us in any way that they can with their skills and talents. Yeah. I'm like super intrigued by the volunteer aspect. Like three weeks. You said you wanted a dog.
This is a good way. Well, I said I I'm like I'm sorry. You didn't want a dog, but your girlfriend would. Yeah, Lauren would like love. Uh, but this is pretty interesting. Yeah, like puppy razor, furlower, like three weeks at a time.
I I could probably swing three weeks of being a dog dad, you know, like hanging out. Uh, that's awesome. Yeah. And a lot of them have public access. The the good thing about Indiana is any service dog in training um can has public access. So they are able to go to different places wherever their human is going, wherever there's public access the dog can go.
So it's a great opportunity for us to train our dogs from the very beginning in environments um that they may not usually be exposed to um otherwise. Maybe we need a studio dog just like you know a rotating like I mean this is a pretty like like if you're like having like a high tense discussion. It's like someone's like talking about like you know like the ups and downs of their business and it's like wait hold this hooer. You need a hooer don't you? Oh they hold hooser. Wow that would be something amazing.
Okay well we've come to the end of the show where we get to talk all things Indiana. I have some fun rapid fire questions for you here. So this question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homejart. com.
My question for you, why do you call Indiana home? I mean, it could be as simple as I met a boy who was actually Australian. It's kind of crazy, but um met a boy and became stepmom to his kids, his triplets. Um that could be the story. But really, I think I was in the 29th class of Stanley K. Lacy, SKL.
And prior to that, um I'm not from Indiana. I grew up in Pittsburgh. Um, so I was always always will be a Steelers fan unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know, depend on your perspective. But when I moved here, I really didn't know much about Indiana and anything about specific things of like Lily and all the great community partners. So when I became a member of SKL, um, I fell in love with the state. I fell in love with the city.
It was just amazing to be introduced to all the different things that Indiana has to offer and um so I think that was my rooting and why I decided to stay. Wow. I love that. I keep hearing about uh SKL. Oh yeah, you should definitely cuz you're you're young enough that you can get to be under 40. Oh, there you go.
Are hanging out. You should do it. between that and then MDLF, like there's a lot of really cool organizations that get, you know, young aspiring leaders more plugged into the community. That's awesome. It was a great introduction. I loved I loved every moment.
Okay, now we have some fun rapid fire questions for you. What's your favorite dog breed besides golden retriever? I've been loving an Audel lately. They look like so wise. So wise and distinguished. Yes.
Yes. Okay. Like I don't know like like he could be a butler or something, right? just like, you know, Theodore. I don't know. But they're terriers.
So terriers have a tendency to be a little more active. And so I don't know. But we wouldn't have them in the eye program because they probably wouldn't do very well. But I just love their look. They're just very They look very distinguished. Regal.
And yeah, regal. Great word. I love that. Okay. What's the best trick you've seen a dog do? part of our program.
We have dogs that are placed in facilities like schools, uh, rehab centers, and we have a dog at, um, the rehabilitation, um, hospital of Indiana, RHI, on the west side. Her name is Crunchy, and she knows how to play war, card game, war, with her patients. So when you think about if somebody has um lack of mobility in their hands or something, putting a card down on a table could be very challenging or picking up things. So part of the therapy is you have to play a card game with Crunchy. So the staff has taught her how to play war. And so then they're like, "Oh, Crunchy won that hand.
Take it." And she puts her paw on it and then she pulls it back to her. So So she's she's very skilled at playing card games. Crunchy. Yeah. Crunchy.
Incredible. What's been the uh the cutest or the funniest name of a dog? Then Governor Mitch Daniels named one of our dogs Milin um after the 54. Yeah. So, I thought that was a really clever way to Milin is a great dog name. It is a great dog name and it was very kind of him to um bestow that onto one of our one of our dogs.
Yeah, that's a good one. Okay, we've come to the final three questions we ask every guest who comes on the show. Goldie, I would ask you, but you're zoned out. So, the first one, this is your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? I love Rono, Indiana.
Um, I love that little town, little strip area, and especially um, Joseph Dequi, which is a great restaurant. And I just love the story behind the Echelman family kind of renovating that whole space and the reason why they did it. And then um the restaurant, you know, they've got this great farmtotable chap like Wagu Wagu beef on their farm. And then I would encourage people to drive um down the street a little bit to Huntington, which is about just 10 minutes away. And then go to Twe E Winery. Um there's a great winery there that um they bring in grapes.
Actually, a lot of the grapes come from California and they crush them there. Wow. And they have this great um amphitheater area. So, they've do a lot of um events, you know, live music, that type of thing. The wine is pretty good and you can do special events there. And I just think it's a it's in the middle of nowhere, but they've got great chandeliers, you know?
So, if you if you put put a chandelier in the middle of a field, like it's classy. There we go. Huntington for two E. Now, this is interesting. It's spelled TWO- ees. So, it's kind of like two E.
So, is it four E or two E? Oh, that's a good question. You know, like just like the way it's written out. Yeah. I know the two capital E are for the people that own it is Emily and Eric. And so they're they're the um proprietors of that space.
And two E. I love it. It's a great venue. They they just recently had um something for the 4th of July and they had over 800 people come to watch fireworks at this little little vineyard area venue in Huntington. Let's go. Huntington.
Yeah. Let's go. I love it. All right, two questions left for you. This next one is where we source new guest ideas or just learn about other really interesting hooers. Who's a Hooser we need to keep on our radar?
Someone who's doing big things, especially in our world, anyone that's in neurology or helping people with paralysis. I think over um the old Four Seasons built or Five Seasons building. I don't know if you're familiar with that being from Bourbon, Indiana. I'm not sure, but um the Five Season building off of 465 was recently purchased by Sam Schmidt, who was a former um Indie car driver who had um an accident in 2000 and became a quadriplegic. And he really wanted to bring um services to that community. And so he bought the building and put in Neuroh which is run by a gentleman by the name of Chris Louu.
And Chris has an awesome story to share. I think he's from the Fort Wayne area initially. And at 28 he had an accident and had a C4 um break and became um paralyzed from the neck down. And today um he's probably maybe mid-40s. Um today he has full mobility. He can walk.
He like if you didn't know his full story, you would not know what happened to him. And so he basically learned how to walk again. He basically um takes now that those fundamental principles that he learned and brought them back to Neuro hope and is trying to help people with paralysis to experience their best life. Um and I just think what he's doing over there is amazing. Um I think the um facility is amazing. I can is actually looking at moving our facility in that community as well.
Um partnering with Sam Schmidt and Chris so that way we can be in a campus that has other people doing similar things that what we're doing and and really create a community of people who are serving people with disabilities. So Chris is awesome. So he he has a great story to share and um I think he's pretty incredible. So does Sam. But that's great. Yeah.
Okay. Final question for you. When you think about, you know, your time in SKL, your time with I can working, being in Indianapolis, traveling over into different facilities. What is your favorite Indiana memory? Came a couple years ago. I was boarding a horse up in um Lafayette area and I went up to do some training with her with the trainer that was working with her and I was driving back from Lafayette and it was probably September, October, the harvest moon was starting to come up and I drive a Jeep Grand a Jeep uh Wrangler so my roof was off and it was the prettiest like moment of Indiana I've ever seen with the fields and the sun coming across the fields.
I think I had some decent music playing and just the smell of agriculture, if that makes sense. Like just this the smell of the fields and you know coming down through these country roads. It it it's probably my favorite moment in Indiana just I mean I've gone to the Super Bowl. I've gone to all the fun events but um that was just a moment where I'm like I like that Indiana's my home. Yeah, I love that. That's just like back roads hanging out.
You can't beat it. Roof off. Yeah, I have I have a Wrangler also, so it's fun. It's fun. This has been incredible. It's been awesome getting to learn a little bit more about your journey getting being able to meet Poppy and Goldie.
Uh absolutely incredible work. One last time, if people want to learn more about IAN, if they want to like get plugged in, if they want to volunteer, if you want to be a puppy furlower, you can you can help volunteer and spend three weeks with a with a potential future service dog. Yeah. And you get to take it everywhere. So it's not like you have to leave it at home. You get to take it to work.
And that's so awesome. All the things. So um check us out at icand dog. org. We're celebrating International Assistance Dog Week. We're just kicking it off.
This is awesome. Uh I do encourage you go watch the video because Goldie had an excellent 60-minute nap here. Uh it's been a pleasure and we'll talk to you soon. Yeah. Thanks Nate. appreciate the opportunity.
This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get