what I do for a living is a little bit of gambling. And you tell him, "We're either doing this and going on television or I'm leaving." It's our job in every one of these cases to make the case get better. What was the first ad? Like, what was the first thing you ran on television? From South Bin to Evansville and everywhere in between.
This is Get In, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Here's a quick hack to downtown Indie for you. There are two parking garages right by Massav that are doing $6 for 6 hours of parking. It's uh Pedro on Mass. Uh if you go to the parking garage underneath that, it's $6 for 6 hours and block 20 right next to Rascaler.
Literally pay $6 for 6 hours of parking. It's the move right off Massac. Don't sleep on it. Today I'm joined by Jim Keller, managing partner of Keller and Keller, a powerhouse personal injury law firm with roots in Indiana dating back to 1936. With more than 30 years of experience, Jim has built a reputation for fierce client advocacy and community impact. From million-dollar verdicts to founding a nonprofit that transforms lives after traumatic injury, he is a super lawyer, million-dollar advocate, proud hoosier, and lifelong competitor in and on the court, legal, and tennis.
Today we're going to be talking about the journey, the evolution, a little bit of tennis. Oh, there was some competitive tennis back in the day. Today we're going to be talking through the journey from 1936 to today, learning a little bit more about the business of personal injury law and how that all works and the the tons and tons of advertisements that we see everywhere. And finally, we're going to wrap it out talking about your guys's commitment to the Indiana community, all the great work that you're doing, as well as the ways you're giving back to some local organizations here. Jim, welcome to Get In. Thank you, Nate.
Thank you. It's great to be here. I, you know, I want to start this off by saying how wonderful of a job you're doing for the state of Indiana. Uh we love Get in Get Indiana. Uh myself and my marketing director um noticed you right away and what you're doing throughout the state highlighting uh towns is just fabulous. So, thank you for for allowing us to be here.
Oh my gosh, thank you so much. that uh that is uh that's very very kind of you and I appreciate and I love uh partnering with you guys and working all the fun stuff from giving away Pacers tickets to doing a Taylor Swift Kate pregame like it's all fun stuff and I'm excited to dive in and learn a little bit more about your story and the story of Keller and Keller really starts in northern Indiana the Southbend area in 1936 does it it does my grandfather George Keller uh was going to the University of Michigan at the time. And uh his roommate had a a sister who visited that roommate. And and when this woman visited my grandfather, he immediately fell in love. She happened to be from Niles, Michigan, and they moved back after law school. In fact, uh what happened uh it is kind of is kind of our origin here in Indiana.
My grandfather was going to the University of Michigan Law School, could no longer afford to commute back and forth between Ann Arbor and South Bend, Indiana. Uh so he decided to transfer during his last year of law school to Notre Dame. He never told anyone he graduated from Notre Dame, but actually he graduated from Notre Dame and and right after law school, he set up a shingle and started practicing law in both Southbend, Indiana, and Niles, Michigan. Okay. When you say set up a a shingle, he like in 1936 you you would graduate and then you can just like start like buy an office and now you're a lawyer and you have to go out and find your own cases or how does that work? So that was an interesting story.
My grandfather um started working for a guy while in law school while at Notre Dame and during that time before he became a lawyer um this lawyer back in 1936 passed away. Uh so he immediately was his own boss. He started Keller and Keller. He started that the George Keller law firm. Uh my dad is the other Keller um in that in that repertoire. And I I just uh unfortunately I just lost my dad.
I'm sorry. A couple years ago. Your grandfather is like not an intern but kind of like maybe an associate like entry level type role before he graduated so he couldn't practice on his own. That's right. And while he's going through his senior year, the like owner of this firm passes away. Really, the only the only person in the firm passes away.
Uh he takes the bar and he starts practicing law right away. And from from the very beginning, my grandfather was interested in helping people. Uh he he did a wide a wide um array of different types of law, but started to focus on personal injury law. Gotcha. Okay. and in 1936 like what kind of like personal injury law I don't even know what it looked like back then it really wasn't a thing uh and what I I I guess if we now move years forward um one of the more interesting stories involving my grandfather was a was a case by the name of Waco versus Kanaki a family by the name of the white co family who uh was from Chicago they had lost a son uh and they decided to move to a small remote town uh that of Niles, Michigan.
Uh and when they moved there, they did it to protect their living son. Um and their son um joined a boy scouts group. Uh they were they were marching um along the side of a road and a drunk driver swerved into this group of boys and killed their remaining son. Uh the case came to my grandfather. Uh and at that time, believe it or not, um America law, American law evolves from the old English code, from from English common law. And at that time, the value of a child um when you would go before a court and ask um a jury for an amount of money was what is called pecuniary damages, which meant that you received the burial fee and whatever that child was able to earn.
Um, so they they they went before court and the judge said, "Look, uh, this case is worth $949. It's going to cost $750 to bury this child." This is back in the 50s and 60s. Uh, it was, I believe, 5758. My grandfather said, uh, that's not the value of this child. The value of this child um is what the child brings to you in in nonmonetary um gang.
Uh, the value of this child involves the child's next birthday. Um, seeing the child graduate from high school, seeing the child married, um having grandchildren, th those are the intrinsic values of a human being. It's not the pecuniary damage that the old English law ascribed to it. So, my grandfather asked for a huge sum of money, which back then was $14,000, and the jury gave it to him. Um immediately, um the the judge said, "Uh, this is incorrect. you can only receive $949 for the child.
And the case from Niles, Michigan went all the way to the Supreme Court. Um the Supreme Court of the State of Michigan, the case is is called Waco versus Ganaki. And my grandfather argued that this was the wrong way to value a child. This is the wrong way to to ascribe damages in a wrongful death action. and um ultimately not only gave my grandfather the verdict um but it was like a bombshell across America, it changed the way it changed the way that that every lawyer, every court looked at wrongful death damages. And today when you go to law school, you generally study the case of Waco versus Ganaki.
It's a cool piece of heritage that you know color and color we we have. So this is in the what year is this? This is 1957 1958 I believe the Supreme Court decision came down in in the year 19 Supreme Court of Michigan. Supreme Court of Michigan. All states look to one another and they look at precedent um and changes in the law and state by state by state adopted this format of ascribing damages to the wrongful death of a child. So other states then see this verdict come in where typically let's say I mean anytime uh there would been a wrongful death of a child it' been like $1,000 or $900 or whatever it was then your grandfather fights for this wins this case in the Supreme Court of Michigan and other states begin to follow and they're like hey that that guy in Michigan that Southbend guy that's right so now someone in Indie and someone in New Mexico and someone in LA starts it sets off this chain reaction that's right where do you feel did you ever talk to him about like what gave him the courage to sit there and say like I'm going to I'm going to ask for 15 times what they're giving us, you know, all the time.
My grandfather was a huge figure in my life. This grandfather also my other grandfather was as well. Um but this grandfather taught me the love of law. His dream was for me to practice law with him. Um and and he was very clear about it. He would tell me about all of his cases.
um and he's he he wrote a memoir at the end of his life and and I was fortunate enough as a kid uh to spend a lot of time um with my grandfather. Well, as a kid, were you intrigued with his law like stories or were you like, "Oh, grandpa's telling another another battle story." You know, that's that's a good question. I think as a kid, um I loved my grandfather was a cool character. Um he was just a an interesting person um who who could tell a story unlike any other and I loved being around him. I loved my grandmother as well.
Um and I I think I picked up things from both of them that ended up changing my life. Now now my other grandfather because I I I don't want to give him short shrift either. Um my other grandfather was from Anderson, Indiana. My mom is from Anderson and he he had what I think is a hidden gem in the state of Indiana. Uh he had a town he had a little store by the name of Star China. It's now Star Photo.
Um and they they do kind of amazing little things. I grew up as a store clerk. Uh when I was 12, 13, 14, 15 years old, I worked in this little little place in Anderson, Indiana. I would I would spend a week or two every summer there. Uh, and he was an interesting businessman where my paternal grandfather was the lawyer, George Keller. Wow.
That is a that's a historic building. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're talk you're you're looking at um Star Photo right now.
Star Photo is now run by my uncle. It's still in business. Wow. And he prints and does all things digital. He'll he'll print your logo on a coffee cup um or or reproduce a photo for you. your grandpa Chuck.
My my uncle is Chuck. My grandfather was Morris Rosson. Okay. And he started Star China that has now transitioned or you know evolved into Star Digital Star Photo. Amazing. Okay.
So growing up, so you have those are my origins, which those are like uh two interesting sides, right? Where you think like the entrepreneur business owner is one side, but then it's like the lawyer side, you know? It's like and no parent I feel like is upset for the most part when when their kid says, "You know what? I'm going to grow up to be a lawyer." You know, it's like a pretty I would say stable job from the outside looking in. Would you agree?
Yeah, I think it can be like um being being a lawyer is a is an interesting choice. I did not know when I was in law school that I was ultimately going to practice uh law. I thought I'd do a number of different things. I was always interested in people. Uh and I didn't really understand how rich and wonderful law could be until I started to practice law. And I think that that's true with a lot of folks coming out of law school with a lot of people that become lawyers.
Um, I feel just very very lucky um that you know I' I've I chose this profession which I think was a bit lucky because of my family and and because of how the business has evolved and all of my aspirations with regard to growing the firm um helping people um really developing a quality organization has now come true. Your grandfather started it. Yeah. Your dad joins the family business. So my dad joins the firm. My dad goes to Indiana University, actually goes to University of Michigan and then goes to IU Law School and at IU Law School, meets my mom from Anderson, Indiana.
Um, so they are sort of entrenched and and they and he goes back and starts practicing in South Bend. My father's always interested in being on Lake Michigan because that's where they summerred. Um, if you're familiar with St. Joe, it's just north of South Bend, Indiana. Yep. Um, so my dad ultimately set up a shop with my grandfather in St.
Joseph, Michigan. And that was really the the law firm that I knew that a as we grew um that that that's the law firm that I know now. At the same time, my grandfather continued to have an office in Southbend. So, we really straddled the two states. Well, yeah. On that north and it's like it always surprises people how quick into Michigan it is from like Notre Dame when they think of Southbend like it's like that's right 10 minutes you throw a baseball and you're across the state line there.
What was the size of the company or the firm when your dad joins? Is it just those two offices up in the north part of the state? So when my dad joins um it it's just him and a a couple of folks and it grows to the point where there are six seven um people three four lawyers six seven folks in the state of Indiana um in the state of Michigan and that that's when I that's when I come aboard. Okay. Did you did you for undergrad? Uh I went to Indiana.
IU under an IU guy all the way through. Okay. So, kind of follow dad's uh law school footsteps a little bit there. I sort of did. I did the opposite. I went to a small law school up in Michigan.
Um I graduated because I I knew that if I practiced law, I was probably going to come back to St. Joe, which is what I did. Um after law school, I I as I told you, I I went down to Columbus, Ohio, where I where I practiced at a medical malpractice firm for a short stint. And what was the thought behind that? like not just joining the family business immediately, not not coming aboard and getting, you know, all the cheap tricks from your dad. Uh looking forward to going out to lunch with my father every day, but needing to learn law from from another Yeah.
group. I think that that's important. Um in a family business, I you know, I I I talk to my kids about this as well. you learn so much from others and and coming directly into a family business without first venturing outside of that really allowed me to grow in ways that I didn't understand then. Um, but it was a smart move on my father's part. I talked to a lot of successful business people that maybe at some point want to bring their kids into the fold.
Yeah. But they a lot of them are very adamant like you have to go out and do something else outside of our company because if people know you're the owner's son or people like they're just going to treat you a little bit different until you kind of earn your stripes. That's exactly right. Um so you go how long did you did medical malpractice for? you know, so I was in I was in Columbus, Ohio for um a series of of summers and then I practiced uh for about a year there. Okay.
Um and still some of those lawyers that I practice with I'm best friends with. Nice. Yeah. So you do that and then you end up back in St. Joe. I end up back in St.
Joseph, Michigan. And so at that point there's still it's a pretty small firm. It's a very small firm. Um and I tell my grandfather we're going to go on television. young grandson comes in and you start you tell him you're going on television. There was a famous case called Bates versus Arizona that had exploded across America and a bunch of attorneys were going on TV.
Um and my grandfather hated the idea. Uh, so we decided at that point, um, I decided that I wanted to be on television as a young kid, not really knowing or understanding the consequences. And my grandfather said he will only allow a 4in letter above the door and that's our advertising. We're going to we're going to have 4 in of Keller amperand Keller. No other advertising. And I turn to my grandfather and I say to him that I'm going to go off on my own um with a TV commercial and we're going to see what happens.
And at that point, my grandfather says, "Look, I've waited my whole life to practice law with you. I want to practice law with you. Uh we'll try TV for 6 months." Was Was that a hard conversation to have? It was a hard conversation to have, Nate, because my grandfather um was such an insistent, persuasive character. I I don't know what was in me at that time, but I had seen the impact of television.
Um I'd understood um what it could do for the firm. Um and I wanted to tell our story. Um I thought that we had a very good story to tell. It changed the firm. Yeah. I mean, clearly, right, you go from because you had you said six or seven attorneys at the time.
Well, we had six or seven staff. Uh we had two or three attorneys. So So it's legitimately grandpa. Yeah. Dad, you That's right. And then, you know, because I'm extra staff making this happen.
And so, you look at what seems to be one of your biggest mentors in your life, and you tell him, "We're either doing this and going on television or I'm leaving." It, you know, I've never thought about it like that, but you're right. That's that that's exactly what happened. That takes some some serious courage, but also I mean, you you end up doing television for six months. I end up doing television for six months. It changes everything.
We're able to reach people that we never thought we could reach. Um we we start to take in cases that we we didn't understand that we were able to to bring in and we develop skills during that time not only to handle these cases appropriately but to make each case a first class client experience. Okay. Two points. one kudos to your grandfather because he could have easily just like strong armed his grandson and like really convinced you laid it on think and not not been willing to change right and evolve a little bit. So kudos to him.
Two, what was the first ad? Like what was the first thing you ran on television? It was a silly ad. It was my father and grandfather walking down the court steps. My grandfather was then pointing at a law book um saying call us. Um, it it it was I I look back at those ads now.
Um, it it sort of reminds me of being on this podcast. Uh, I feel very uncomfortable here. I love talking to you. Uh, but it it it's crazy that I'm here, you know, speaking about our law firm like this. I I generally don't do this. I don't talk about my law firm a lot.
Um, even even amongst friends. Um, probably play tennis more than more than talk about my law firm. Um, but I believe in what we do. Yeah. And I think that that this type of engagement um is just an extension of of what television was in the 80s and 90s. Yeah.
Um that that's why I'm so intrigued with Get Indiana. Um because I think that it's authentic um and it allows the viewer to to really see and peak into who the people are behind the brand, behind the product. Right. Yeah. And it's it's just so powerful. As we continue to get into the story, you guys expand, you grow.
Now you're in Indian. Like you're all over. You end up having offices in Michigan, Indiana, and New Mexico. So like national expansion. But you could ask, I don't know, if you're walking down the street and talking to people because there's so many personal injury attorneys that are on billboards and benches and buses. Wow.
Triple B right there. Come on. Um, but they'd have no idea if you're like the biggest firm in the world or you're started in Indiana in southern Michigan in 1936 in three generations of family. That's right. That's an interesting story to me that I feel like hers get behind versus like the national New York firm that's like trying to come in and they have a repeatable process that they run in all 50 states and now they're like launching Indiana and they're everywhere now. I think that's really interesting as someone who like like I think um do you know Jeff Simoleon from MS Communication?
I know Jeff well. Uh Jeff once told me on the podcast this was early on. Okay. He said you can't be a bad guy in Indianapolis because the whole town know about it in two or two hours. There is something wonderful about Indiana in that everyone knows one another and everyone's gental. Um I mean every everyone everyone wants that relationship.
Uh and it's I think it it's what makes our state great. bad actor type individuals or just like gets pushed aside right away and it gets like noticed really quickly like I see it now even where it's like founders that are coming up or anything like that and it's like those those real Instagram followers or what Buster like I know what's going on here. We we talk um in our firm Nate about how important it is to treat our employees correctly. um how important it is that you know we offer um hopefully our employees good benefits, good opportunities, good things because we know that if we treat our employees right, they're going to treat our clients right. That's kind of how the state of Indiana I feel works. Yeah.
Um it's just it it it's very much about that. It's a small enough place um that those types of ethics and and guide points matter. Um but it's a big enough place that that you know one can be very successful like a Jeff Smallley. Yeah. There's like the opportunity but then there's also the like uh if you go through the state of Indiana and you're like committed to putting out good and not expecting a lot in return where it's like hey I scratched her back now you scr but you just put out good the good comes back to you. At least that's the experience that I've had.
Maybe that's the joy that I have in watching you. Uh because I know that that's what you believe when you do it right. um you know whether it's Martha Hoover that you've had um and she creates the Padishu Foundation or it's Jeff Smolian who's constantly giving back to the community. Any of the folks that that you've talked with um the the the St. Elmo's um people, the way that they get involved in the community and give back I I think is essential. Yeah.
Amen. Um well, we're going to jump back into the story. We're at the point where you get your first ad on television. It's your father and grandfather walking down the stairs pointing at a law book. Did you guys like what channel was it on one channel? Yeah, we we were on a channel out of Kalamazoo, Michigan.
It was WWMT that that bleeds over to into the state of Indiana. Covered our our little area and it the phone started ringing. Okay. So, that's I want to go. No one else was on TV at this point. I got to go to that moment.
Right. So, did they tell you, hey, it's going to air at 8:00 p. m. on Tuesday night? Oh yeah. So, did you all like get together?
We're all like sitting around the phone. We couldn't believe that it was gonna happen and you're like watching it. You're like in the middle of like an episode of Seinfeld or whatever. It's like No, it was and and and you know, my grandfather was a little upset about the whole the whole dynamic. Um my dad was intrigued. We we started to to change the film.
How how quickly did that television commercial send you new business? So, the cycle of business of personal injury law is interesting. What happens is first people understand your name, who you are, and they develop a sense of trust. Um, and then an accident has to happen. So, we don't we're not in the business of selling widgets. We're in the business of helping people.
Um, and so that cycle takes a while, but I I I would say in six or seven months that cycle began to h have roots. And you could feel it. And we could feel it. And we could definitely feel it. It's very persuasive to be able to, and this doesn't exist in the same way anymore. We were able to go into people's homes and talk to them.
Um, during the Oprah Winfrey show, during the Phil Donahghue show, and they would listen to us in in just increments of 30 seconds, it was a medium that, you know, my grandfather didn't understand, my father didn't understand, I barely understood. Um, what year is this? This is around 1980. You weren't allowed to. No, no, no. There there there was a Supreme Court case, Bates versus Arizona, that allowed lawyers to do exactly this.
And and a few started and it still to this day shunned by my profession. Advertising. Advertising. Advertising is is generally shunned by the profession of law. um lawyers, you know, in in large law firms think that um it should be done by referral or reputation rather than than thumping your chest. Not everyone um loves lawyers and we understand that you you don't you don't hire a lawyer until you need one.
So, so it's an interesting it's an interesting game, but no one calls the lawyer on like the best day like, "Hey, how's it going?" Like, "Good to talk to you." You know, it's always like especially personal injury, it's like it's maybe the largest piece of adversity someone faced has faced thus far in their life. You know, we're on the other side of the insurance industry. So, on one hand, America is insured against risk, um but when something bad happens to a person and they need to recover the correct amount of money for that incident, um you need to call a lawyer. um whe whether you call us or whether you call someone else, you're you're going to get a better settlement.
It's going to be more fair. Um and you you you need to do your research before you call a lawyer. Um I I would I would tell everyone and anyone that. Um but you're probably going to have a better outcome if you call a lawyer. Yeah. Because what the insurance company wants to do is like they're going to give you a number and you're just like, "Okay, that's what I get."
But you can actually fight that and negotiate, you know, litigate, whatever you call that, too. Well, the insurance company is built around the idea. It It's really a an important financial institution in America, but their concept is to have you pay premiums and then to keep as many of those premiums as possible. Um, that that is the basis of what regardless of what insurance tells you or doesn't tell you. Um, and the only way to really get what's fair, um, often is to get at the truth. And to get at the truth, often you need a lawyer.
Yeah. Sometimes you don't, by the way, um, sometimes claims are just paid generally, um, to get a fair shake, you need a lawyer. And like depending and I don't know, I'm not I obviously I'm not a lawyer, but like depending on severity, right? Like fender bender like someone whatever. It's like I mean are you is there like a limit or a threshold when people think about calling or is it like every time not every time? First of all, that's a very good question.
Most people know Keller and Keller um for the large cases that we handle for the the the severe um semi-ractor cases that result in terrible injuries. We do handle almost every and any auto accident case. There are cases that there's no liability. Uh there are cases where there's no injuries. Um, and we're not interested in in anything along those lines and and any good lawyer is going to turn that away. But if you've been injured as a result of a car accident, uh, whether it's a soft tissue injury, uh, whether it's it it's a quadriplegic injury, um, will probably look at your case.
Yeah. Has to be hard being on the other end of whoever answers the phone. I I always think through this from like whether it's a doctor's office or anywhere. It's like whoever's calling you, if it's a serious injury, like this is the biggest thing in their world. This is the biggest thing that that especially right now at that at that moment it is. That's right.
And it's like the average person I would say has one of these a lifetime in their lifime. It's like you do hundreds thousand like 10,000 plus over the course of your career and it's like okay another day we have experience doing this but every time you go into that conversation you do have to kind of reframe of like well this is the biggest moment in Linda's life right now. That's right. And and it's important that we treat it like the biggest moment um in that person's life. I think that that's the beauty of of my staff, my office um who we are. Uh but there are many personal injury lawyers um law firms that do a fabulous job.
I do commend folks in my profession um are built on helping people and as long as that becomes your focus and you get better at that small thing of helping people every single day. You learn compassion, you learn empathy, you understand communication. That's what makes a lawyer a great lawyer. And there are many of those in Indiana. I have to say um local local personal injury firms do do great work and and I have many folks around the state that I know know well um who all who all practice along my side who who also do well. You talk about going well, the TV ads start going well.
Yeah. So the TV ad you guys start to expand. We expand and I become interested in the city of Indianapolis. I'd known about Indianapolis since my childhood. you know, we'd we'd go down to Anderson um Indiana visiting my grandparents and we'd we'd take a drive over to uh to have a a corn beef sandwich at Shapiro's um when when they used to be across from uh St. Vincent's Hospital and and I loved the city of Indianapolis.
My sister and brother-in-law um I I I have a brother-in-law who at that time taught medicine at IU, they were already living here. I looked at the idea of moving to Indianapolis and and we did that in in the year 2000. I brought u my wife then two kids uh with us. Um and and right around 1999 uh right around the turn of the century um we we moved to Indianapolis and and started our law firm here. And so what was the size at that point when you came down to Indie? We at that point we were about 15 to 20 people.
We'd already opened an office in Southbend, uh, Indiana. I became licensed way back then in Indiana and in Michigan. Do you have to pass two different tests for that? At that point, reciprocity. So, no. Um, I had already passed the bar in Michigan.
I had to practice in Michigan for I believe it was 5 years, handled 50% of my cases in the state of Indiana, and I was waved into Indiana. Oh, that's nice. It was very nice. I was not ready to take the bar again. Oh gosh. Yeah.
that as do is that how it goes through all the states for certain states you have certain states there's reciprocity states that don't want you in um there's no reciprocity I believe for instance California is one of those states they don't want so like you'd have to go past the California go past the bar again yeah I can't even imagine the stress of that so so I'm too old for that now right now all right folks if you're in the mood for some seriously good eats let me tell you about the HC Tavern and Kitchen in the heart of the Fiser district it's the spot whether you're grabbing a business lunch brunch with friends a romantic dinner or just hanging out and enjoying some cocktails. They have huge culinary classics like the world famous St. Elmo shrimp cocktail and fillet sliders as well as dishes you can only find at the HD Tavern like the lobster cargo and the spanalis steak. I mean come on, does it get better than that?
And you know what's awesome? It's right near all the action close to the Fischer Event Center, IKEA and Topgolf. So no matter what your day is looking like, a stop at the HC Tavern and Kitchen just makes sense. The vibe is super welcoming with a touch of class. Perfect for any occasion, whether you're out with friends or making it a date night. So whether you're in the area looking for a fun night out or looking for a place to grab a bite after shopping, swing by the HC Tavern and Kitchen, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Good vibes, amazing food, and amazing hospitality. Now, let's get back into it. But in the year 2000, you pick up your family. We moved to Indianapolis in in 2000. What point did uh your grandfather transition out of the business along that journey? My grandfather was already out of the firm.
Um, my dad was in the firm. The hardest the hardest part for me of moving to Indianapolis was um my my dad and I practiced together out of St. Joe and and Southbend. Yeah. Um and so my dad remained in St. Joe.
Um and he was a a small town guy and and wanted to remain there. Um he'd often stay say that uh he was not interested in leaving that office um unless it's boots first. uh he he he wanted to practice law as long as he could. He loved the practice of law, loved his clients. Um and and that's what he did. That's what he did.
So he stayed in St. Joe. At that point, how long had you guys been practicing together? Seven, eight, nine years. Like like right right in that in in that time span. Used to go out to lunch every day with my dad.
Um you know, we would discuss the office. We would discuss growth and and suddenly I I'd moved away. And it's not like you're moving away to like this new office that exists like you here to start it. I thought that I would try out Indianapolis. I didn't buy a house down here at first. I I lived above it.
Our our office is on 29th in Meridian. Uh right now it's an old mansion and I I uh had a room upstairs uh where I slept um in that bed. would walk downstairs and I would start practicing law in the morning and then I I would leave I would leave on Thursdays to to hang out with my wife and kids. So before so before you brought the family down, you you had you brought an office down here. How many employees were in Indianapolis at the time? We had three.
We we had myself um a partner Randall Jurgensson um and another woman who was our our everything. Our office manager, our case manager, our parallegal. There were three of us. So, and then they'd go home to their Indianapolis houses and families and on Thursdays I would I would go Yeah. back at the same time Tuesday night. I drive I'd drive every week back and forth.
They're like coming in like talking about their commute. You're like, "Yeah, the stairs were really rough today." That's So, how long did you do that for? Uh, so I did that for about a year. Um, and then it looked like it was a go, you know. How did you make that determination?
We began taking in cases. The law firm quite honestly grew. Were you on the television down here, too? We were. We were. that that that's how we started in Indianapolis.
I do want to ask okay so so you start to you know get some TV spots here. Did you work with a company like let's say those first 10 20 years of of television ads? Okay. Did you work with a company to develop the concepts there? Cuz like thinking about what the consumer is going to want to see and if you're only trying it for six months like you probably like did most of the work on it. For the first couple of years I did the work.
Uh, I I would say that the ads were janky. Uh, they they they weren't great. Um, and I found I found a partner that I began working with that I still work with today uh that had produced a series of spots for a lawyer out of Boston. Is this where the uh we mean business came from? This is where the we mean business came from. Yes.
And I worked with this individual um for for years and we developed sort of a a series of things just for Keller and Keller. Let's say there was a personal injury lawyer in New York State. That's right. And they have like a marketing thing that's working. Yeah. At the time like, oh yeah, let's just make that ad for Indianapolis and that could probably work here.
Like you could do that. But then getting your own specific taglines and your own specific brand, it it it's important to me to tell a real story. Um, and that's that's why I'm here today with you, Nate, because I I think we have a unique story. I think our our story is not the same as many other personal injury law firms. We're I like to say we're different. I I cannot say we're the best, but I believe we hire the best people.
I believe we have results that that reflect that. There are many other folks. And and and I do when I say, you know, if, god forbid, you're injured, call an injury lawyer, but do your research first. Um, figure out the law firm that you're calling, understand the people behind the telephone. What is important when you're making one of those uh ad campaigns, like the messages to get across? What do you try?
Because you have 30 seconds, you have a minute, whatever it is, because some of them come in and they're like pretty intense. Their concepts around um what I call these ads like are speed and greed. um that you know people snap their fingers and they say just call us we'll you know we'll handle everything. That's not the approach hopefully that we take. I I think it's important to talk about um a a zero fee. Most lawyers one one of the beautiful parts of of my practice that that most personal injuries lawyers will offer uh is called a contingent retainer agreement.
Uh which which simply put is we don't get paid until you get paid. Uh it allows it allows an individual who often does not have um the finances to hire a top-notch lawyer to say handle my case on contingent basis and we'll pay you only when you recover for me. And that's that that's a concept that's tough. It's taken me 20 30 seconds to tell you um that concept. We call it a zero fee guarantee. You can call it whatever you want.
Um but that's that's one of the principles. The other principle that we more and more like to talk about is we either like to tell our clients stories, okay? Because they tell our stories better than we do. In the alternative, another way um is what I'm doing right here is is explaining empathy, is explaining compassion, is explaining the fact that we communicate um with our clients and we've done it before. Um, and then finally, you know, the the piece of experience um and depth of the law firm I think is super important. Okay, I want to talk about this zero fee guarantee.
Okay, I'm intrigued and I obviously this is not this is not a sales promotion, right, for color and color, but it's interesting to me. Well, it's not. It's not because I want to be clear. Um, and and I think it's important as a lawyer to say this that most personal injury law firms um you can hire on a contingent basis. There are some law firms that will say, you know, we need we need $1,000 to investigate your case. Run from those personal injury law firms.
The that's not that's not the firm that you want because they're just trying to get volume and get 100%. either that or they're trying to get money up front. But I but I would say by far and I want to stress this that the majority of personal injury law firms out there will offer a contingent fee agreement. Now those agreements can be different. Some will offer a 33 and a3%. Others will offer 40%.
Sometimes they have escalating clauses. There's all sorts of different There's and and again this is why you need to do your research. Wow. Yeah. I mean, when you say 33 and a3%, meaning like we recover $100,000, 66 and 2/3 will go will go into the client's pocket. And that's that's generally that's generally the percentage that that most lawyers um work from, but there are there are lawyers um that will charge 40, 50, and sometimes 60%.
And is there is the thought process being, okay, we're going to recover you $100,000. your settlement was only going to be 50 in the first place. So, you're going to get an extra amount of whatever it was. Well, there there's a number of other things that happen as well. Number one, the personal injury lawyer needs to maximize your recovery, and that's what you're talking about. They need to get as much from the insurance company as possible.
But there's another piece that that folks often don't understand, and that is you have this mountain of medical bills. Um, now the medical carriers, whether it's an insurance company or a medical provider, will try to take as much of that settlement as possible. So, the secondary piece of what any personal injury law firm will do is negotiate those medical bills. Sometimes they're leans, sometimes they're bills, sometimes it's an insurance company subregating, asking for their money back. Uh it it it happens in in in all sorts of different colors and variations. It's important because it's the amount of money that you, the client, ultimately get.
So So we'll maximize a person's settlement plus negotiate all of and any of their medical bills in like business terms, right? It's like you're increasing that that top line on one side. That's right. And you're minimizing negotiating with whatever the provider is. It's like, "Hey, it's going to be $1,000 for that Tylenol that we gave you or whatever it is, right?" Um, the interesting piece about this is when you go in to a case with, hey, we don't pay get paid unless you get paid, we're taking the financial responsibility off your shoulders, but also like the risk that, right, the risk is placed on our shoulders.
People will often ask me, um, Jim, uh, let's go to Vegas to gamble. and and I don't gamble. I don't play cards. Um I'm I'm a very competitive person. I think that what I do for a living is a little bit of gambling. Uh there there are some cases that we take on and we take on for the benefit um of of our clients and you have to put in way more hours than what we're ultimately going to be able to collect.
Yeah. Um and it's it it's a numbers game, right? Um, we want to be able to to handle um as many cases as as expertly as possible. It's like finding that sweet spot, right? Yes. I will tell a person in the very first phone call whether we can handle your case or not.
Um, and and our staff is trained to do that. There are there are some cases that we cannot handle. There are some cases that that you're going to be throwing good money after bad um getting involved in that just don't make sense. So, we're telling people, and that that's a hard part of our profession. We we're telling people all the time that we cannot help them. Um, of of a phone call that comes in, there's a 50/50 chance or greater that we're not going to be able to help you.
Uh, we're we're selective with our cases. Uh, cases that you take on. Yeah. When you So, you have to be selective there. Yeah. Right.
Because Yeah, you're right. It's like maybe you could win the case in court, but like the amount that you recover don't offset the amount of hours put in to get to the case. I think that that's right. Right. Okay. So, you have to be selective there.
Then on ones you take on, it's like as new information comes out or this that and the other thing, you you have to give them an expert level of service. It's our job in every one of these cases to make the case get better. We feel with the tools in our toolbox that when we take in a case, we can make that case better with uh cases you take on, what's the the win rate there? We have a very high win rate. Very high win rate. The reason that I don't like to give out numbers is because we can't guarantee and and I tell this um to every client that calls it.
It's unfair for a lawyer um who's doing what I'm doing to guarantee you, you know, that there we we have a 99% win rate. Now, do we? Yeah, we we we have a pretty good win rate. It's pretty good. It might be pretty good. Um but but I can't guarantee anything.
That comes from looking through the details in those first phone calls, talking to them about all that. Like knowing that you're like, "Hey, we have a ton of experience. We've seen this. uh we know that this is a case that we can go out and win. I do want to ask has there ever been a moment where you're like so maybe early in your career too it's like I'm so confident that I can get this one and then I feel like we when you're taking this gamble it could be hard. Do you have stories on both sides?
We we have we have all sorts of stories but but often when we take on a case we're we're fairly convinced that we can do something. Now, do you sometimes find out that it was my client's fault, a person who thought that they had insurance and ultimately there's there's no money there whatsoever? That's th those those are the most tragic cases where my client is hurt u my client is hurt badly and ultimately it turns out that there's no insurance, no money, no ability to recover. So, so we often say that that in a personal injury lawsuit, there are three legs to the stool. Uh, one is what's called um liability. Is it your fault or is it someone else's fault?
Um, and if it's the fault of the individual that caused the injury, that's one leg of the stool. The next leg of the stool is recoverability. Um, there needs to be a pot of assets to go after. Um, and without that, without insurance, without a person who has some money in the bank, um, all that I can do, I'm not I'm not a criminal attorney. I can't punish that person or send them to jail. Um, I can recover money for my clients.
And finally, there has to be damages. There has to be causation, damages that that directly relate from the Yeah. injury, from the accident. I I do want to ask, it's like a broader lawy legal question. Obviously, you're a personal injury attorney, but does that mean who represents the truck driver? Their insurance company.
So, they provide so the truck driver will always be there's a required amount for in every state for a truck driver to carry a level of insurance. Those insurance companies are very sophisticated and they will immediately investigate. um they will immediately jump into the shoes of the truck driver and protect him, the assets of the company and and and the the freight company themselves. Yeah. You as an individual, you need an army to go against those folks. Yeah.
Well, I've always just thought it's it would be really hard as a lawyer to represent someone at fault. Like that would be so hard. Like, and this is might be way down a rabbit hole, but I think about like the emotional stress of as the details come out and you start to see the writing and it's like, man, some some of the best personal injury lawyers have first worked on the other side of the fence. We call it in our trade the dark side. The dark side. Um, it's an important part of of American juristp prudence.
I don't besk the the attorneys that are on the other side of the fence. Um, they've chosen that. my partner that I moved down with, uh, Randy Jurgensson, uh, once represented insurance companies. And because of that, we know and understand what their tricks are. We we understand their games. Um, and and there are some fabulous fabulous attorneys that represent those truck companies.
That's why you need as an individual who's hurt a good attorney on your side. When I was when I was younger, I wanted to be a lawyer because I wanted to be like a litigator, you know, and and then I'm thinking about like you watch enough like movies and you're like, man, imagine being like the courtordered defense lawyer defense lawyer of like well Nate, you know, like that's crazy. You know, I as I as I'm sitting here having this conversation with you, I think you'd be a great lawyer because you're a storyteller. you have to be able to to advocate and the best way to advocate is really to tell the proper story and for you to be able to jump in a conversation. Um whether it's with a lawyer or a person who runs a restaurant um that's what it takes to do what we do when when you're ready to come to Keller. I I think you've got a good thing here, Nate.
So if the podcast doesn't work out, yeah, I don't think I could pull you away, but um I'd love to have you at home. There we go. I just just got to go to law school and pass the bar in a few states. We'll be good to go. Um, take us take us to where we are today. Right.
You are first you're living above your legal office in down in in downtown Indianapolis. Uh, you you move your family down here. You have, you know, staff's 1520 at the time, but 20 years later, it's it's a little bit more than 15 to 20. I'm now 62. When you're 62, you begin to frame your life in in interesting ways. And and one of the things that I reflect upon that was one of the biggest decisions that that I was just lucky at making was choosing my partner, choosing my wife.
I have to say that this journey happened because of her. She supported me at every at every twist and turn. And because of that, we have three amazing daughters um who are now out of the house and and I'm living I'm living in Indiana suddenly as an empty neester. Um we have over a 100 employees um at the law firm. Um we're in three states. We're in New Mexico, Indiana, and in Michigan.
Things have turned out better than I could have ever imagined. You can't really be concerned about what others say or think. uh you just have to look inward and do whatever you do better and better every year. That's probably been the best part of our journey. Uh we've been able to do that. Uh we've been able to get better and better at what we do.
That's why I am here today. That that's why I'm here uh talking to you. Um I I feel very fortunate um to be able to talk about the firm in this way um in a in a very casual and honest uh manner. As lawyers, you often don't get to do that. Um you know, I thought the 30 secondond spot was really the way to do it, but really it's it's on a podcast like this. Yeah.
And and to humanize the industry as well as the firm. Yeah. because I I I think back to your recent series of questions. Um there's an entire um economy around accidents that that a lot of people don't know or understand. Um and I would say and I I think I've said it a couple of times during this this interview is before you hire a lawyer, before you talk to a lawyer, before you think about a lawyer, do your research. And you're able to do that today.
you're able to go um and listen to a podcast like this or you're able to to look at a website and yeah, where should they go? Like if you're looking at reviews uh and you want to know like like is there like review this lawyer? There are a number of vehicles online that make sense there there's a company called AVO A VV Vo and they rate a lawyer. Um there there's another kind of an old stable group called Martindale Hubble and they they have a BV rating and I think an A rating and an AV is the highest rating. Um and you know when you get to be my age and you've practiced long enough and you have lawyers and judges that that um will say that you're a good guy and you're honest and you do good hard work um at the end of your career you get an AV rating. I I I was just able to receive that accolade and and I wish my dad was here to see it.
Yeah. Um well, I do want to so so so there are vehicles like that before and and then finally I would dig into um a website um because from a website um you can today understand all the supporting links from that website, understand the results and the experience. Uh and then finally, probably the best thing that you can do is talk to two or three lawyers. Um and you can do that today through um a a video um computer access. You can do it by going into attorney's office. Uh we'll come right to your your hospital bed.
Um if necessary, we'll come into your living room and have an honest conversation. And then after you've had an opportunity to shop, to compare, um, you'll find the person that is best able to advocate for you to get you justice. Let's say you're on the phone and you're trying to like go through that like due diligence process there. Yeah. Is there like something to watch out for? Not watch out, but it's like if they try to get you to sign something right away or something.
If they're pressuring you in any way, if they're too salesy, they they want to get you to sign the case right away. if they promise you things that that don't sound right, I you it's too good to be true. It's too good. It's too good to be true. You know, often um and and this is one of the one of the questions we're asked all the time. How much is my case worth?
And if a lawyer answers that question, um then they're not doing their job. There's no way in an initial conversation to really tell you what your case is worth. Um it's like, you know, going to an oncologist and saying, "Do I have cancer?" without the oncologist seeing the blood draw, seeing a CAT scan, looking at an MRI, etc. , etc. You need to ease into the conversation.
But hers are smart, you know? I mean, they they they figure things out. They can you can tell when people aren't being genuine. I think that that's right. Yeah, I think that that's right. My my grandfather would call it psychic tentacles.
He would always look at a jury and he would say, um, you know, they have psychic tentacles. And I' I'd ask him, you know, what do you mean? He's like, well, it's almost like they can reach out and touch the witness and understand whether they're telling the truth. Um, that's how we get to the truth. That's how we get justice. Uh, you did mention, so you just received that AV rating and I'm sorry I mentioned No, I love it.
I My my partner Randy Jurgensson was was forever an AV-rated lawyer and I I I I think that I just received it a year or two ago. Well, that's Congratulations. Yeah. you look to see whether a person there there's another group that calls themselves super lawyers and and you've done enough work and if others have recommended you um it's a it's a lawyer reviewed campaign there's a group called best lawyers there's there's a number it's all over the place the super lawyer right the AV rating and you said you wish your dad was still here to to see that um first of all I was touched by the pieces that you had um during in this last Easter holiday on your mom. It meant a lot to me. Not only did you reflect, but you you understood her journey and what she would want from you.
I had that experience with my father. For anyone that's lost a parent, and it doesn't matter how young you are. Um it doesn't matter when you lose a parent in life, it kind of frames your life a bit. Um I I have to say that I think about my dad every single day. Um, and if I were to ask my siblings, they would say the same thing. Uh, we were fortunate to have an amazing father with with an incredible value um, structure that that he brought to every equation.
Um, and when I think through a problem or when something great happens to me. Um, and I'm sure the same thing is true with you. like like I bet if your mom were to see us um with this get Indiana sign behind you um and she'd freak out. She'd freak out. I mean, look look at how successful Nate Spangle is. I was very lucky because my dad saw many of my successes.
Um and I hope to do the same for my kids. But look, it's we're we're all on a journey. What happens when you lose a parent um I think is it it frames your life. um you you recognize things like mortality. Uh you recognize um why you're here, what's brought you um through this journey. Uh and that that that's what happened to me.
And it it was clear that that listening to your stories on this podcast that that you found some of those same truths. What does it mean to you to carry on the legacy of both your grandfather and your father in this third generation family business? It's a burden and a joy, I I would say. Um I I feel very lucky um to be the steward of of that. And what I try to do is really get better at it, better processes, um treat my clients um better each year with both results and compassion and communication. Um lead an organization that has a culture of giving back.
I mean, the kinds of things that we've talked about are are are things that are meaningful to me. I think that my father and grandfather would appreciate that. Biggest ways you guys have given back is through uh Samantha's House. Samantha's House was a was an organization that we were lucky enough to found. It it dates back many years from now, but I had a case when we moved to Indiana um where a little girl uh was hit uh in her own neighborhood while while crossing the street trying to get a glass of water. She ended up having the most severe of injuries.
She had a quadriplegia injury where um she was very similar to Christopher Reeves. When I met her in the hospital for the first time, she could only blink her eyes once for yes, twice for no. And how old was she at the time? She was eight or nine years old. It it it was and and and it was so tragic for me, Nate, because at that time, my girls were the same age. So, we knew that we had to do something substantial for her.
We knew that the amount of insurance would no way cover this this horrible um tragic injury. I met a person along that journey whose daughter had suffered a similar injury and he came to me and he said, "Look, we we have to do something different. We have to build a house for her." And I said, "What? she's going to need a full handicap accessible house. I said, "Look, I'm a lawyer.
I we don't build houses." And the more that I understood the story, the more that I interacted with the parents, the more that I fell in love with this client, um I realized that that this individual was right. And we formed an organization called Samantha's House. Um and for the first couple of years, we built homes for kids in Indiana with severe disabilities. partnered with a with a group by the name of CP Morgan. At that time, they were a huge home builder here in central Indiana and we would build a home that was fully accessible.
We created a 501c3 organization that was separate from Keller and Keller. Uh we would raise money through golf outings and through private donations. Um and year after year we would we would provide um a home for a disabled child. Now we're focused on um handicap accessible vans. um we've recognized that that is a need and and this year um hopefully we'll be giving away another van. But efforts like these are critical to to a law firm doing what we do.
Not that not that you have to give a van or a home away, but giving back to the community in any way. And I see my brethren and sisters I I see other personal injury lawyers doing the kinds of things that we're doing. I'd like to think that we're a leader in this space. others do great work as well and and giving back to the community I think is a prerogative to to doing what we do. If the whole ethos is taking care of the community like that's what you're do like you take care of them in in the courtroom and in the worst times and then you also take care of them at some of the best times when it comes to like the Taylor Swift party and the Pacers tickets. No, we've given out some some Pacers tickets together, which is another great way because the thing I mean when I think about personal injury law is you have to be top of mind at the tragic moment, you know, like and and being actually invested in the community as someone who cares, you know, how the Pacers are doing and cares when Taylor Swift comes to town and cares all the time.
So, and I know that there's another project you guys do around Thanksgiving, but we've leaned into Thanksgiving because of the necessity of food in in certain populations. So, what we do is provide a turkey. We we call it a turkey for every table. We gave away 500 to a,000 turkeys this year. Hopefully, we'll do more next year. And it's significant.
It's super fun when you're able to provide something to someone something like a Thanksgiving meal. Um there's nothing that brings as much joy. It's not just the turkey. It's like it's the fact that you have and the fact that you have a turkey on the table at Thanksgiving with your family around or your friends or whoever it might be. It's that moment of in time like the snapshot. It's not really the turkey.
It's the ability to give the turkey away. Yeah. Um you know that that we find we find ourselves at that juncture. We're very fortunate. Jim, I appreciate you coming on the show today. As we wrap up, we have some fun segments here at the end.
Uh the first one's our younger years segment. It's brought to you by our friends at OR Fellowship. They're a great organization here in Indiana helping develop young business leaders across the state. So Jim, think back. Uh what advice would you give to your 22year-old self? I would focus on what I do well and ignore um the distractions of of people talking about you.
I I I would focus on your core ability and your passion. early on in your career, you just do care more about what people think about you. That's right. And care more about all this extra noise versus just like knowing who you are and and there is like that process of discovering like what your core values are and traits are and all those things. Definitely. But once you find those and you begin to hone your skills and become better at at the thing that you do, um I think that that causes success.
So, I I I would say to to any um younger person, look inward and get better. We have a few lightning round questions to go through here. Oh, boy. First one, what would your courtroom walk up song be? Like if you busted through the doors and there was something playing, what would it be? Oh, God Bless America.
There we go. That's a good one. Uh, I just like imagine like me as a lawyer and like Morgan Wallen's song like his walk out song and it's like me and and it's Pat McAfee and Tyrese Hallebertton walking like when they came into town. You'd want it to be big and you'd want everyone to understand exactly what it meant. Um, and for it to be very relatable. I'm just like imagining now like the like if you think of like the evolution of um like Tik Toks of like personal injury law and it's like something by like Moneybag Yo and it's like a rap just so funny.
Isn't Isn't there a guy by the name of Top Dog? I think that you hear on the radio and it it's it's a rap. Oh wow. And it's great. It it is uh Yeah. But it it that probably would not be mine.
That's fair. Is there a specific advertisement that you guys have had, whether it's TV or radio, that just sticks with you? Two insurance company adjusters, and they're eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in the insurance company breakroom. And one turns to another and says, "Who's the lawyer representing the accident victim?" And when the other guy says, "Keller and Keller," the individual chokes on his sandwich. Uh, it's still my favorite ad.
Um, I I I don't know how I'd ever recreate it. We had a lot of fun making it. Um, and it it's one of my favorite all time. That's hilarious. Uh, that's a good I think growing up. So, I grew up in Northern Indiana and between Keller and Keller on the radio or on the television and Deep River Water Park on like those just have like free rent like the the we mean business.
Uh, and then the Deep River Water Park. Like those two just have free real estate in my brain forever. When you're not practicing law, running Keller and Keller, what's your hidden talent? I love architecture. The sort of design, anything from landscape to physical architecture and and I think I'm good at it. If I were to come back as something else, I think I'd be an architect.
Lawyer, architect, maybe third maybe the third life will be a doctor. Like just No. No. I will I will not be a doctor. Yeah, that's that's too complicated. That's says the lawyer.
All right. Uh, final three questions we ask everyone who comes on the show. What's something the world needs to know about Indiana? Indiana is one of the largest wind producers in America. Wind. Wind.
And if you drive from here to Chicago, you'll see that there's a spine up the center of Indiana um that's that's very high in relation to the rest of the state. um and that has a lot of wind that drives through our state and it delivers an enormous amount of power. I heard this from a um the CEO of I think it's called MISO. It it it was just interesting to me because I'd never I'd never understood that Indiana produced so much wind energy. Um and it's an amount of energy that um on both sides of the political aisle they applaud uh because it it it is providing um real jobs, real economic growth for our state. Yeah.
When you take 65 up to like towards Chicago, you get there and it's like crazy. Holy smokes. Uh you just stumble upon this up in that area. Yeah. And I don't think people think of Indiana as like a you know green energy producer, but we are. One of our first guests, yeah, his name is Ilia Erector, started Doublemap.
Okay. Which was like bus technology. Sure. And then has now started Megawatt. Okay. After he sold that first company to Ford and what they do is they do Bitcoin mining.
Okay. So they have like, you know, huge data center. Huge. They need this energy. That's exactly right. And so what's what's special about his and the state is working with him and he's obviously writing legislation and talking to, you know, politicians.
Yeah. when the grid gets stressed, he's working with uh the power companies to flip off the miners to de-stress the grid to in exchange for like energy credits or tax credits or whatever. And so then when the grid is not stressed and they turn the miners back on and can keep mining Bitcoin. What a fascinating. So it's like a really interesting business that like along like green energy and public uh private partnerships there. Interesting stuff.
People need to know that about Indiana. Now we get to talk about a specific place part of Indiana, the state that more people need to know about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? The Idol. Have you ever been? The Idol.
The Idol. Idle L. Is Is this the um Fault in Our Stars place? No, that's that's Nope. Nope. That that's different.
That's the John that's John Green. Hold on. The idol. The idol. Oh, yes. I probably because I was going to say I'm I'm gonna take you there if you haven't been.
Okay. The idol is spelled I D L E. Not I D O. Not like American Idol. No. No.
Not ideal. Not the American Idol. This is Tom and Eddie Batista. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. It's one of my favorite places after after a nice meal.
um for instance at his restaurant um you walk down and you're able to like go through these vines and look at the sunset and trucks and cars traveling through sort of America's crossroads and it to me it speaks to Indiana. Uh it's this wonderful like urban park that is so different and and I think it was if if you look it up, it took these gentlemen um years and years and government bureaucracy to create and it's just this wonderful park that exists. I I've never seen anything like it. Yeah. And it's it's interesting and great because at first I remember they talked about the idol and I was like that seemed like weird. I mean, I was going to say working man's friend.
Like, there's nothing like a burger there. There's there's all sorts of, don't get me wrong. Like, I I I love Star Photo in Anderson, Indiana. I could I could talk about a lot of hidden gems in Indiana, but but this is kind of a special place. Well, the first time he tal they said, "Yeah, you need to check out the idol." And I was like, "What kind of sacriiggious stuff are they talking?"
And then they I D. And I was like, "Oh, that's a really good name for something that's right next to a major highway." That's right. and you just sit there and like you have the city and the whole thing. It's it's really cool. That's a great one.
Um after a meal, check out the idol. Final question. Okay, this is where we get to learn more about future guests, potential or other people doing great things. Who's a Hoosier that we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things. My sister is an art therapist.
Her name is Joanie Rothenberg. Um she just created an enormous sculpture at the Damian Center. Um, but if you go to St. Vincent's, if you go to the heart hospital, she does these huge mosaics. Um, and she's just beginning um to become nationally known. Um, her art projects now appear in hospitals around the country.
Um, she's done works in Israel. Uh, and I think that she's up and coming right now. by Joanie Rothenberg. Um, sculptural glass artist. Um, and she's done fantastic things. I don't I don't know if that's if that's fair to pump my sister.
Absolutely fair. I mean, if you would have said if you would have said like Keller and Keller Law, I would have said like, "Okay, come on now." But like that's a good one. Where can where can people see her work at? Okay. So, if you go to the heart hospital um for instance, right off of Meridian at St.
fees, you'll see four large um glass mosaics of a heart. Um if you go to the brand new Damian Center um that's in downtown Indianapolis, she did a threetory um several hundred,000 piece of artwork that that goes up the stairways that that Axis uh just designed. If you Wow. If you go into um St. Vincent's Hospital. Um she works with cancer um as a as an art therapist.
She works with um victims of cancer that um create their own um glass pieces that are throughout the hospital. Her her work is wonderful. Her spirit is amazing and and I I'd say she's up and coming right now. Oh, is this the mosaic she put at the heart hospital? That that's exactly right. Wow.
That's exactly right. Those are beautiful. She needs to do a Get Indiana mosaic, right? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, we have the the family like the the dynamic, right, from artist on one side to lawyer on the other.
There we go. Uh Jim, I appreciate you coming on the show, sharing uh the incredible journey from 1936 to here in 2025 of Keller and Keller, the the law offices of Keller and Keller. Uh from your grandpa's legacy to your father's legacy to the amazing company and and firm that you've built. Uh it was great hearing about the way in which you think about your customers, your clients, the way in which you think about our community in the state of Indiana, obviously Michigan and New Mexico as well, but when you talk about Indiana, it was awesome to hear your feelings towards carrying on the legacy of this family business. I think that that is very very um important and impactful. And I think that sometimes uh kids can stray away like, oh, my dad did that, so I want to do the exact opposite.
You know, he's a lawyer. I'm going to be an artist. And and I think that there is uh there's a lot of nobility in continuing on something and to do something for almost 100 years but closing in 11 years away from 100 years of Keller and Keller. We need to do something around a 100redy year mark the century mark. Um Nate thank you for having us on and and I too congratulate you for what what you've done with Indiana. It's it it it's a real joy to meet you finally uh and to be here.
Yeah. So appreciate you having Thank you for listening to this episode of Get In. If you like what you heard, make sure you leave us a review wherever you listen to podcast. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at sweetwater. com.
If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being part of what makes the Who's Your Stake. We'll see you next time here on Get
