Housing In Central Indiana with Mark Juleen of J.C. Hart Company

I actually almost look at it as a sweet spot in real estate right now and the market is very affordable are you is your hot take that Coco is going to become a suburb of Indianapolis whether you're a single family developer or a multif family developer people want to come here uh what's something the world needs to know about Indiana from South bin to Evansville and everywhere in between this is get in the show focused on the hooer state and the incredible stories happening here today I'm Nate spangle founder of G Indiana and I will be your host for today's conversation before we get into

it just a reminder this episode of get in is brought to you by cluster truck indies's goto delivery kitchen if you haven't tried cluster truck yet you are missing out they have over a 100 menu items everything from hand stretched Pizza to Tacos salads breakfast burritos and my personal favorite the pad tie add chicken they've got something for everyone plus delivery is always free now here's the best part if you order right now by the time this podcast is over your cluster truck order will already be at your door it's that fast so whether you're catching the game or just too busy to cook head

to clustertruck.com order now and use code Indie n Dy at checkout for 20% off orders of $25 or more trust me your stomach's going to thank you reminder that code is Indie n Dy now let's get into the episode today I'm joined by Mark julen COO of JC Hart company JC Hart is a top tier real estate firm specializing in developing apartment communities across Indiana with Decades of experience in real estate Mark has helped modernize JC hars Market marketing and operations and in a past life Mark was also a podcast host he hosted the apartment nerd leasing show as well as co-hosting the faded golf

podcast a lifelong hooer Mark is passionate about enhancing Indiana's housing landscape and is he grew up in Carmel but is a proud resident of Westfield today we're going to be talking about where you belong in Indiana and the affordable cost of living here as well as a few hot housing Trends Mark welcome to get in appreciate it Nate uh glad to be here dude I am pumped I've been uh waiting for this conversation there's one thing about uh you know apartment complexes in India is there's no shortage of them right like they just keep popping up left and right yes uh and you are one

of the I think that's the general take you know like I was talking to the mayor of Carmel uh a few months ago and that was like like are they going to stop you know that kind of thing so yeah it it seems like they're popping up everywhere which I love I mean it just like kind of is the leading indicator of growth right because I mean one thing I've always been fascinated about is like how do you pick where you guys are going to like what kind of research goes in the front to know like you know what we're banking on Midtown Carmel a

decade ago or whenever it was and it's like we think this place is going to pop and then all of a sudden like Sun King comes in jav house comes in and that place is ripping like how long ago did you guys kind of like make that bet yeah uh that's a really good question and I think if I go back to I've been at JC har for 21 years and if I look back on what we did 20 plus years ago versus what we do today it's shifted a little bit it used to be that you could go out into just call it the

the suburb um corn fields you know and build some Garden style type of apartment community that was kind of sprawling across you know acres to uh that being you know kind of the trend of like how do we expand Beyond uh car or to the outskirts of caramel or how do you expand into the Noblesville and how do you expand to the edges of these suburbs to now it's uh what is our proximity to the Monon Trail what is our Pro Pro imity to shopping what is our proximity to the highway even those kind of things and you you look at uh just I guess

Urban Development in general and all of that urban planning that's the way that that's happening now they they want to have more of a strategic approach not to just hey we need to add housing let's just put it out in the middle of a corn field to hey what strategically strategically are we going to do to plan where we can approve hey this is going to be great for multif family housing this is going to be great for single family homes and obviously commercial those kind of things and we've seen an evolution of that for sure it's so crazy to think about like I moved

to Indie five years ago so it's like it's always kind of looked the way it looks to me but I do remember driving US31 when I was a kid and like Westfield and car like just keep seeming to get like further and further north you know like and in my lifetime I'm 27 so like in the last 27 years like noticeably further north like let there's no fields around Westfield anymore oh I remember growing up in caramel and and once you got to 146th Street that was like North right like you're almost to like the wall right like if I'm G to go with Game

of Thrones right but you are like way in the north and there was like a farm more and maybe some crappy um you know driving range or something like up there that but that was like those were destinations you never went further north of that and now you do have all this development that's going on in Westfield uh the mayor of Westfield just posted on Facebook that um there's some uh uh large company out of Chicago that's moving their headquarters or a large facility there too they're trying to grow and continue to build what kind of tax base they they can get up in Westfield

as well and of course we've seen what's been going on in fisers and all the growth that's going on there too so that this Hamilton County and what has really grown and expanded is is fantastic it's it's awesome it's crazy and also I I learned that Fishers has only been like an incorporated city for like 20 years or something like that maybe they only ever had one mayor which is nuts cuz they have almost maybe just over 100,000 or just under 100,000 people now like it's nuts at one point I think they were the fastest growing city in the United States I think they still

continue to be one of those so cool um well one big question that I think a lot of people have especially uh people who are moving into Indianapolis uh it's like where's right for me you know like I came from so I'm from a small town in northern Indiana then I went to depal so I was out in Green Castle and I'm coming to the big city and I'm like for some reason I was like Broad Ripple Broad and I love it I think it's awesome it was perfect for me but like I didn't know what I didn't know I was just like oh yeah

like it seems like a right place kind of at the time it was pretty affordable like I got in early and uh I was lucky to be one of the ones that like when starter homes were still a thing in Broad Ripple like got it in 2019 and I'm like now I'm sitting on it forever I'm like never low interest rate but i' would be curious like if I give you a few different like uh like personas like from your experience of of you know having housing all across the state and across the city where like the right neighborhoods would be for these type of

individuals so let's think like young professionals like recent grad of let's say it's Notre Dame let's say it's puru let's say it's IU or W any of these places they're coming to India for the first time where would where would you recommend that these like young professionals check out you know it's interesting me being old now too I I think things have have shifted a little bit but if we try to keep this is my personal take on it but um you know I think we try to keep a pulse on where where the market's at you know I would say when I got out

of College what was that almost 25 years ago or whatever it was I would have said oh man all my buddies are in Broad Ripple you know they're all moving here this is the this is the spot where you need to be and then you know over a period of time people kind of moved out of that market and they either gravitated to Fishers they gravitated to Carmel or whatever suburb but I think things are changing a little bit and in uh maybe not necessarily pigeon ho holding like what's your demographic is and what age group you are it's really what you want to where

you want to be and what you want to be and I I think you espe look at like a caramel and what they've done with the downtown area what they've done with the mon on trail you were just talking about kind of like earlier Sun King you know kind of coming in there um and really what they've done in fisers and some of those areas where they they they're trying to create these areas that people want to gravitate to uh socialize on the weekends make it walkable you don't just have a Broad Ripple now you don't have just a downtown Indie where the where that

those features are there you've got other cities that are trying to do that and uh westfields and and the middle of a project of overhauling their downtown and making it very walkable uh bringing in even things such as a new library to now also restaurants and different things like that it's so sad to say right so for me right I'm like a I I mean I grew up small town like I've been an I've been on the other side of like the caramel haters right like oh caramel just thinks are and then it's like my friends started to move to caramel and then I started

to spend more time there and I like spend a night on three up like in the roof bar and you're like oh and I never hit a stoplight up here and that was kind of incredible like all of a sudden like all these and I'm like I went from like I can't believe you you guys are moving to caramel to become lame and now I'm like oh maybe a little Friday night in Caramel doesn't sound too bad I hate to say it but it's like all the conveniences are now in these areas and again you go back to like Urban planting I think the mayors

of these cities have done a really nice job at trying to say hey I know we aren't Indianapolis we don't have the Colts and the Pacers and the obviously the large theaters but what else can we have and you look at what uh they've continued to grow whether it's that padium or um different well shoot now where the Mad Ants are going to be there Noblesville 6 n but I mean all of that they want to bring entertainment the fuel are going to be out there now in fisers as well like you don't have to it doesn't have to all be here but the beauty

of Indianapolis and here's in my opinion you can live wherever you want we have plenty of people that work for us they drive to our corporate office up in Carmel but they live on the Southside or they live on the west side because of all the commedian is that they have there but I think you can choose and pick anywhere you want to be um that fits your lifestyle maybe fits your budget uh fits what you want to be close to and it doesn't really matter what your age demographic is it's who where you want to fit and what what you want to do I

love that and I I think that's a good way to think about it because like it is and it's changing so dynamically right like like oh my gosh 5 years ago if my friends would have set on a grant and I'm getting a little bit older but like I think Carl's like a pretty decent spot to go out like on a Friday night and like listen to some live music and hang out and like walk around you can hit up three up in the goat and all those cool places up there and it's like it's got to happen versus like now Broad Ripple it's like

I don't know the last time I've like been out like about on a Friday night in Broad Ripple like which is a problem like we gotta I'm bring that's like one of my initiatives I got to bring some life back to Broad Ripple but put it on my PL and I would say 10 15 years ago we we'd Venture down here as well now I'm older I got older kids and stuff like that so uh even going south of like 80 six street is you know it's a it's a little bit further but we still go downtown you know I go to games um I

we go to shows and uh those are uh all draws and I think uh broad rep continue to have draws I think I saw some artists that's coming to The Vogue uh later this you know this year and I'm like well shoot maybe we should go see him at the Vogue um you know and maybe that'll draw us you know different are what do you think the most underrated place to live in Indianapolis is where it's like you know what this place rocks it's not getting enough love it's it's underrated for I think anybody and that it shouldn't be underrated because it's the number one

place to to live in America basically which is caramel oh and and I I'm telling you right now uh it gets it gets way too much hate and it gets too much negativity for people that don't live in Carmel because of this idea that it's like kind of some up place but I do think you can find a variety of different types of housing um different levels of affordability uh still great schools and all the conveniences of you know shopping whatever that that's nearby now underrated maybe that's not the way to to phrase that I just think it gets a bad rap um for all

the the great stuff I and I think you're actually right when people think caramel they don't think affordability but like whether it's I mean houses are expensive but like you can get somewhere within caramel for like you're not breaking the bank you know like they're a very affordable 200,000 homes to obviously million multi-million dollar homes is one thing but there's some older apartments in Caramel that have had some nice renovations to them they're still in great locations um or you can you know move into one of our communities that might be one of our newer developments that um obviously is a little higher rent Spectrum

but hey there is a variety what's like your guys's Crown Jewel up in Caramel uh so Midtown Flats right there on on monan trail there's a pool in the center too there there's a pool in the middle of that one we actually have just started the process of breaking ground right next door we're going to have a br another brand new property called mon on square right next door to that uh just kind of to the South y okay I have to say thank you because that little shopping mall thing was the least caramel caramel thing in Caramel like it was like like there's a

Soho house or whatever in there and it's like that's about it and you know I think there was a vacuum repair shop or something in there you know like you're just like driving through and you're like this does not belong here and it was a of time obviously to got to but hey that's going to be condos retail Apartments another parking garage that caters to caramel it's it I mean it's kind of got everything so you will have even for sale product and Rental product we have any like like sneak peeks of like what kind of retail we might be talking about uh I know

we've got like a a really high-end fitness place that we're we're U looking to get in I believe we've got a steakhouse that we're we're trying to get in there as well so I think there's there's going to be some some good stuff that comes in there so you're you're going to have restaurants you're going to have um of course things that cater to the neighborhood and just to prove though I love that this is not just like a we're gonna like hype up caramel the whole entire podcast cuz I think it's easy to Hype up I think the most underrated spot yes uh is

zanville like I freaking like that little brick streets of downtown the village of Z like that place is pretty sweet oh seems like he's got some beef I think zville could be so much better oh that's where I'm going to just I I maybe if I'm going to keep it if you could make three changes to zville to make it better what would you do if you say remove the bricks we're going to have beef no we aren't going to remove the bricks I think there's there's some great history there and the a lot of the um residents of zionville have tried to hold on

to this a lot of history there and it's actually held them back as a city uh they they really they are like the anti- carel they don't want to be caramel and where I got kind of obviously heavy up front with caramel was like it's a great thing and if you look across the country more and more towns in these suburbs are trying to be more and more like caramel they are so leaned against that and just want to turn their back to even remotely the idea that I actually think it's going to hold them back in the long run and where um I don't

consider them underrated I consider them a little lost oh all right have you ever seen have you ever seen the the show Yellowstone uh I've I've seen a little bit I watch because I'm getting big Vibes of like like the John dut is like I am the the I'm the anti-progress like I don't want to like like we want to keep the same ways and then like Carmel is like a Boseman that's like no we want the future of Montana hey don't get me wrong I think that there's some extremes that have gone on in Caramel like some of the art projects and some things

you're like did we really need to do that we need all the statues that scare the heck out of you when you're walking down the street exactly do we need you know some of the details at the same time um I think zanville could learn a little bit from Carmel and and and maybe not dig their heels in as much and there could be an opportunity for them to really develop I mean they just had a whole plan John stair just went through a whole plan to approve to redo everything south of that zionville downtown and because the essentially the residents of zionville put up

so much of a stink they had to scrap the whole plan okay and that's just one example of you know I just don't know if they're ever going to want to try to progress I mean if you drive into zionville uh there's just signs in people's yards that you know keeper zionville rural rural zionville and I get it you know um at some point you know Urban expansion if you will does get into neighborhoods that people are like well I like the way my lifestyle is and I like the way that this is um however are you missing out on opportunity to create uh a

more obviously modern type of lifestyle or modern type of amenities for a for a city in a neighborhood um that because you're maybe trying to dig your heels in on you know that's the way we always did it you know like the old fdy dudy but um there's a ton of character designs pH I think it's a fun place to go those kind of things I just really and they've got great character correct it I just I feel like they could be a little bit more Progressive I I feel that I think that caramel's done a good job of like being the like Beverly Hills

of Central Indiana right you know like it's that's a stretch but yeah okay sure I mean like I don't know like if you think about like where people are like oh it's like very very you know cultured and futuristic and it does remind me a lot of like the time I've spent in like around Los Angeles and stuff like that like you know like you got California class there on the corner and like all the architecture it's it's sweet um I do want to talk about okay so give us like a rundown how many different uh apartment complexes do you guys uh have across the

state so we have uh 29 properties that we manage um across the basically Indiana we do have one in a little city called Sylvania Ohio um which is just a it's a little suburb out of outside of Toledo I'll tell you what I'll tell you a real quick story on that one so the we've got a partner that we partner with a few projects down here they're a uh kind of more of a commercial developer and they are based out of Toledo Sylvania area and they said hey we've got this little infill location Sylvania has been seeing what does infill mean call it like an

old ter tear down kind of like area that nobody's been able to figure out what to do with it since so probably shoot as I just drove through Broad Ripple here like tear down some old buildings fill some fill it up with something else so an infill type of location it was right off there downtown um in Sylvania and the the city came to us and they were like hey we've heard you've been part of kind of these redevelopments of these little down towns we would love to have that as part of ours so perfect example of zionville you know pushing away whereas this other

little suburb of Toledo was like no no we want that in our downtown we want multif Family Walk ability to to uh the the restaurants downtown and whatnot so we do have this one little project it's about 200 units in in Sylvania we partnered with on um but the the rest of our portfolio yes uh Hamilton County um we manage a prop uh property out in uh Brownsburg um we've we we'll be breaking ground on another property in uh planfield later this year uh we've got a project in the works that we'll break ground on maybe next year in Avon and then we do have

um two properties down in green uh one another property on the south side of Indianapolis we've got three properties uh downtown Indie uh four technically uh and then a lot of us fisers Westfield Noblesville Carmel big where was the first where was the first ever property you guys had you've been in the big you've been in the game they've been in the game for 50 years JC hard ass so 1976 let's see if we go back to 1976 so uh John Hart started JC Hart company with his dad um his dad was a Builder developer in Indianapolis in the 50s and 60s built anything from

homes to strip centers to hotels to uh all different types of real estate uh development kind of the Northwest side of Indie um so think about that um Pike kind of like Township yeah and a lot impacted a lot of that area um when John got graduated from IU wanted to join his dad in the real estate space his dad started getting into politics so but you know kind of helped started getting him into the space and they decided to focus on the kind of multifam apartment sector in 76 we probably had a property out on the West Side called Grassy Creek I was out

by the old airport kind of and we sold that one gosh maybe seven eight years ago I mean we had held on to it for a really long time sentimental value there I think there was like a Sentimental hold on I mean the oldest property in our portfolio now is a property called Bayshore it's down in Greenwood we built it in 1997 um so it's going on 30 years old uh but a lot of our portfolio really where we took off JC Hart company took off was probably in the uh mid to late 2000s um where our portfolio really uh started to grow and um

so yeah we've got the the the 29 properties I I didn't mention that we've got uh one property right off or really almost in Purdue campus and West Lafayette and we have three smaller properties off campus down in Bloomington nice yeah and I'm actually going to go down and check those out at some point I think in the the spring maybe who knows maybe we're down around I'm not an IU guy right so I'm a depa guy but I've heard there's like this some bike or something going on down 500 maybe I've heard fantastic are you not you guy oh yes heck yeah all right

um well well one thing I do want to talk about that I've like got a lot of you know people talking about my friends you know 27 to 30 something like year olds that are like not getting to buy their first house like it's kind of crazy like Central Indiana housing is I don't know like it's just wild like wild wild west you know like starter house home prices are you know 300 plus and getting in Indianapolis or Hamilton County like yes there are some you can get a $200,000 house if you're like out in the sticks or like your one bedroom one bathroom and

like a living room kitchen slash everything else so talk to us about what you're seeing and like how increasing the amount of like obviously there's a ton more apartment complexes going up AC around Indianapolis and Central Indiana but also like housing and what do you guys see have we seen anything like this before and what's going to balance us out so that like a 30-year-old can go out and buy their first home we are at an interesting spot I actually almost look at it as a sweet spot in real estate right now in that um I actually still think housing here in Indianapolis is very

in the market is very affordable uh if you look at a lot of other uh markets that are similar in size and or similar type of market so if you go to a Kansas City Columbus Ohio uh down to Nashville um Cincinnati you know those those kind of markets um let alone you go to your Chicago's or or you go to uh obviously your New Yorks or some of your other more major metros Dallas those kind of things um and gosh you probably could throw an Ashville into that um the affordability in Indianapolis as far as housing costs and and what rents costs versus what

housing costs are is ridiculously inexpensive um which is where I think we're we're all very bullish as developers whether you're a single family developer or a multif family developer and that people want to come here and it's uh whether that now with remote work people are just choosing where they want to live uh that as well as attracting businesses because of the affordability of living here now I get it when you're 25 27 years old 30 years old and you still haven't feel like gosh you're like when am I going to get that opportunity to buy my first home that seems really expensive it's just

a little bit different than maybe how fortunate I was when I was in my 20s and I could get aund you know $50,000 house you with like with like no money down basically what I think is crazy is that it's just like the inflection point has happened so quickly yeah like in 2019 I bought $185,000 house which was like a I mean I'm a recent college grad a ton of money but like I could put like barely anything down like and it was like oh this is like what you grow up and do like you buy a house and now it's like like that same

house now like reappraises for $330,000 5 years later and it's like when you watch your other friends of like man just 5 years ago Nate did that and like now I want to do that but like I'm getting a worse house for more money like I do think it's like shifting a little bit of perception but like just it was really really good it was that was the thing it was ridiculously cheap to live in Indianapolis before it wasn't and if you thought it was expensive before you were just your vision was skewed on that one in my mind it's now probably like I was

kind of saying before I feel like we're in this kind of Sweet Spot we're like we're still an affordable Market it still does require some money down on something to get you got to save up you got to be smart with what you're doing but versus like a Nashville where it's like I think it's impossible to buy there like where you want to buy well it is and I mean even when I lived in Chicago when I got out of college and I lived in La for a minute too like nobody owned I remember my first manager in LA but what was that 2000 whatever

it was and she was probably I don't know almost 40 years old 35 40 years old and she was telling me about how she just bought her first home and and I was like okay no big deal you know I'm from Indiana I'm like yeah whatever good for you you bought your first home congrats Karen like yeah you know and I'm like whatever but no she's like no you don't understand like and she bought probably like a TW bedroom one bath somewhere in you know Long Beach or something like that for like a million dollars so just everybody needs to have a little perspective here

you know I get it like salaries maybe aren't the same here and quick pause in the action to introduce you to vep vodka the cleanest tasting vodka ever Straight From the Heart of Indiana now this isn't just any vodka it uses an Innovative pressure filtering process that reduces bite burn and aftertaste now I'm not usually a vodka guy but when I first tried barkeep I asked them if they meant to make a vodka that didn't actually taste like vodka surprisingly they said yes barkeep subtle flavors means you'll taste the ingredients in your cocktail and not theirs with its roots right here in Indianapolis it's made

with premium local corn and bottled in small batches to be gluten and impurity free I also love the look of the bottle with the bar spoon on the back as a subtle reminder that this stuff was made for anyone who loves making cocktails so grab a bottle of Barkey vodka from your local grocery or liquor store and impress your friends with the cleanest vodka ever made for more info visit barkeep vodka.com okay I want to talk about supply and demand what's the timeline on like a a JC heart development like like the one in a caramel that's going up right now uh south of Bon

plats yeah so I mean each deal is a little bit different from let's go from like planning like hey we should put something here to like acquiring the property to bulldozing to building to someone lives there from the point where uh we find an opportunity and uh with as long as we've been in town um a lot of people approach us when they think a multif family project is going to be something that um could be part of you know uh a piece of ground or what have you that uh they somebody wants to develop and depending on how it zoned depending on how many

units we think we can get on that particular property and then obviously the cost of the land we try to back or back into it I guess you could say and looking at you know what our typical numbers are so we put together we'll take like an initial stab but you know what would be a proforma or basically some type of a an estimate and budget for what it's going to take to build a property like this what kind of rents we think we can get and then of course the cost that come along with it that whole process um up front and analyzing you

know might take a month or two for us look at a deal um but each deal also is a little bit different on how fast they want to come together you take you know that is caramel property as an example um the people that were on that parcel and wanted to get things moving they were like let's go let's go we got to move on this thing this is you know this is hot and heavy project who who owned that parcel before I are you I don't know if you're allowed to say but off the top of my head um like just like some random

no not random but uh devel another Development Group and part like imagine like who like bought that back in like 1975 and it's like yeah we spent $55,000 on the strip mall in caramel and now it's worth $55 million or whatever you know right and and hey by the way sometimes that's how some of these come together right like um you look at especially stuff that we built out I'll just call them in Farmland you know some farmer obviously owned probably some field and we built it and and often they end up uh you know staying in in the deal as like Equity player and

ended up making money that okay wait let's take a brief detour down that because like I think that there is there's a good side in the back like obviously like you know suburban sprawl like it's got to go somewhere like people want to come live in Indianapolis but like like the American Farmer the the midwestern farmer is like having to either like hold on and like try to make this farm work or is just like hey you know what we're just going to like sell out and shut the Family Farm down and like and now it's going to be apartment so like talk to me

about that battle there so just this past weekend we did our fall family outing and we were out in uh what Greenfield um this past Saturday yeah at Lark dude those guys just emailed me and said I need to go to cuz their their main ones down like in legod yeah like their main Farm but they opened one in Greenfield and they were like they were giving me the background of the story it's like it's a super cool family business that's so cor so it's this family business they own tons of Acres like everywhere and so I end up meeting uh like the one of

the sons who's like running the show and he's like yeah I've got a real estate degree from IU he's just like but I happen to farm and now I'm just trying to come up with creative ways to repurpose this land that we have he's like this is one example he's like look at the these Acres we have just here to the South he's like I think that could be a neighborhood and probably some self storage place and like he's just getting you know created but I think that's what's happened um I mean you can drive all across Indiana and you're you're going to just continue

to run into Farmland I don't think we're going to run out of Farmland in Indiana but along these major stretches of highways that we have and where they can start creating these intersections and continue to have this urban sprawl I think they're getting really creative on how they can expand and whether it's just putting in gas stations to begin with to then creating obviously some additional development um to me that is how Farmers have to strategically start thinking okay how can I still have my farm business but how do I continue to take advantage of you know the land that I own my my best

friend he is a farmer in Northern Indiana and like so we talk about cuz he's like you know he's like hungry but it's like you can't like you can break even farming but you can't like make like you can't increase like he'll never like literally never be able to like go out and buy a hundred more Acres if he just like does the same thing that like his grandpa and his father and like no that's no offense to them but it's just like that's the way the math works like you know like the math Works where it's like we get at the end of the

year like we get enough to buy seed for next year refill on all of our stuff and like we do it again like it's the craziest hardest work to break even but he's now starting to look at like whether it's different science or different like ways that you can like use your land when you're when it's out of season or anything like that to like help like actually start to stacks and profits to like you know expand the farm and do things like that so you're you're definitely like in the right vein of like being creative and like yeah it might not just be like

you know planting in the spring and harvesting in the fall like you got to figure out how to be a little bit more like I think the Hobby Farms and tourism stuff like the one thing people from you know the city love to do is like go play Farmer for a weekend right go dig in some corn we good go walk through a maze yeah be a real country boy that's right um okay if you could wave a magic wand like if I think about Central Indiana and let's say that like timelines and budget didn't matter like how many more apartment complexes would would we

need like what's like the supply and demand side of that thing like if you just make wave of magic one like yeah if we had 100 new developments or 50 new developments like what's going to balance that out where it's like ah now like we've caught up to the amount of people that want be in affordable housing in Indiana what we do know is that statistically different areas of town can absorb X number of units you know per year so uh for example caramel historically and when I say absorb that means we can fill those up within a year period of time so if you

build let's say you build uh 200 unit property um another guy down in the street you know opens up a 200 unit property and another one down the street opens 200 on average caramel might only absorb I don't know let's say 300 to 400 of those units so still 200 of those units are going to have to wait maybe another year um until basically that population growth happens and that population growth obviously going to happen just through normal population growth as well as obviously if businesses come into town and so we try to really look at one of the biggest drivers that we try to

look at you know are we continuing to see job growth in the market and if we feel like we can see job growth in the market meaning businesses are coming to town or there still hiring is going on jobs aren't leaving Indianapolis we feel pretty comfortable that we can either either hit those kind of average absorption numbers or even like hedge a little bit and say hey you know what we will eventually still get there depending on it now Market metrics and Market uh factors uh can impact things like so for example interest rates going up the way they did this last year Banks and

lenders put like a a real slowdown or a halt to hey you know what we aren't going to do any more multif family deals um or we're going to put a hold on multif family deals so one of the other factors that is also a driver on like how many units is like the big banks are only going to lend so much money even the small Banks and the local banks are only going to the state banks are only going to lend so much money and so there's a couple Factor like yes we can do all the analysis we want we can know all right

yeah on average this Market's going to absorb X number of units okay we know about the other developments that are going on in this area and we do we can do all that homework but at the end of the day the bank's doing that homework too and the bank is going to be like well we feel feel like that Market's saturated so we're not going to do a loan or we're going to slow down doing loans on multif family because we feel like that Market's saturated and so there's kind of a Natural Balance there now we've gone through markets right where especially as we think

about like housing and stuff where like banks are like just yeah do more loans do more loans do more loans sometimes then we get kind of you know B B over Supply in some markets because they were doing loans for anybody but have you guys ever made a bet on an area that just like didn't pay off I wouldn't say it didn't pay off in the long run but I would say like in the short run it man did we you know were we early to the market and I'll the one example I can think I I had just started um at JC har and

we had built so that was what in 2003 um yeah 2003 and we had just we had built a project in uh 2000 called Pebblebrook Village and it's right Pebblebrook Golf Course right up off 32 in Noblesville um and it's right I mean it's right there and you know we we kind of thought this whole 32 Corridor that connects Noblesville all the way over into Westfield and whatnot was going to be obviously a big thing but back in 2000 and even into 2003 and even into 2005 we really struggled I mean I think we maybe got to 80% occupied um you come like 2005 and

I don't think we actually really turned the corner on that one till 2006 2007 so it took us a good you know almost 5 to seven years to really fill that one up to where I would call it it was a sustained property is there like a um criteria like so you guys have developments here north side of Indie you have Indianapolis Central Indiana Bloomington West layette are there other spots around the state we're we have a a project that we're working on in Downtown South Bend right now oh um so we're really excited about that on the river part of their Redevelopment um of

downtown which will be really cool so we're hoping that that one comes together we're building a project third party for another uh group in Fort Wayne right now so I was going to ask like where do you see like if you you know could just like wave wave your magic R and it's like oh we're going to go build developments here here and here like what are places where you're like I think there's a lot of opportunity around the state outside of Central Indiana we'll say outside of Bloomington outside of westoff yet where would you like oh I wish we we're we're going to start

to look more up at these places Wayne is a market that we haven't dove into too much we we had looked at a deal uh probably 2 3 years ago didn't end up all coming together um I think that also that southern Indiana like on that Louisville kind of Market could be interesting on how that continues to grow uh we got a little bit cold feet on some stuff we looked at down there though um once we learn the market a little bit more but I still think there's some potential long long term there I think a college town like you know centrally South Bend

with Notre Dame I think there's there's plenty of potential there as well so and just like you can see uh the strides that South Ben and Fort Wayne honestly both of those two have like and I mean evans's done a good job too but like they're they're taking some serious strides to you know like youngify you know like just make them like places where you go you go work but you go eat and play and do all the things like I think they're doing a great job at the river well if you think about like maybe just other like major Metro markets through the year

so if you even think about like a Chicago or New York and whatnot and you got kind of go let's go about like Urban expansion right cooko is not that far away right Columbus Indiana isn't that far away do you think and so at some point we are going to and for that matter Bloomington and West Lafayette are really not that far away and I I think that's what you're going to start seeing is you're going to eventually start seeing those become like connections and almost considered like suburbs are you is your hot take that Cookoo is going to become a suburb of Indianapolis I

don't know if it's a hot take but there's potential where it really just feels like it's connected I mean it's not really like like what is between cooko and Westfield Tipton cisero Cicero by the way Cicero here you want hot take Cicero will be the next North suburb of Indianapolis that will will take off um well that's like that CU he's in the Hamilton height school district and they're like up and to the right on like you know student so but I mean you got it's north of Noblesville north of Westfield right off 31 it's just a natural expansion the part of that Town's connected

to the reservoir right so it's like I I I can't see how that wouldn't end up being just a the kind of the next suburb that that eventually takes off okay so obviously you guys have a ton of experience in like multif family like that's that's the stick right but also the the other cool things that are coming up it's like I just saw the development of container homes down on College and Fall Creek yeah and like these more unique like whether it's tiny homes or container homes or what like where do you see those kind of developments and it's like I mean that might

be like obviously you guys do like 200 unit big complexes but like when you're looking at things like that like do you think there's going to be like an increase of those type of unique units in Indianapolis I I still think and this if I just go off of even the fact that we can't establish public transportation around here I think people like their space and they don't mind being spread out and if they can get more square feet and larger spaces they're going to do it and the small tiny you know unit um can make sense in Pockets but I don't think it's necessarily

going to be become like the big Trend in Indianapolis uh the fact that we all kind of drive everywhere that we go just tells me to me like people are going to be willing to drw so they can get more space they're going to be willing to drive somewhere to get it um where they don't feel like they're landlocked and they can't go anywhere um that said we actually I just had meet this meeting yesterday and it was a it's a group out of out of Richmond that um has started this process where they are taking old kind of I'll call them they're like past

their Prime Extended Stay like hotels M and they're converting them to rentals and so to that point on like more efficient units you're talking 500 square feet maybe 700 Square F feet uh type of units they're totally rehabbing them these are already in great locations most of them are near like retail and highways and stuff like that and I think it can be a totally new model they doing it with uh like shared amenities or like solo amenities uh like I think I read I saw one where it was like it's kind of like a dorm like they're they're making these housing apartment complexes but

it's like where it's like shared bathrooms and stuff like that no this one because they're taking think about like an extended stay hotel it's got a little kitchenette in it it's got a bathroom maybe has a bedroom or it might feel more like a studio like a hotel room kind of thing well they're basically taking that they're upgrading the kitchens making them more like fulls size type things trying to figure out where they can squeeze washers and dryers into the units um but making them more efficient kind of square feet type spaces which if you take like one of our properties here that we just

you know opened up this past year the edge up in Indianapolis where you know a two-bedroom is over $22,000 well you might get a a larger two-bed but if you wanted a smaller one there you might be able to get it for 1,500 Bucks versus you know you're over $2,000 for us man I love that and I think that that there is going to be more creativity like it's just in developments I mean there's I just had Leonard Hoops on the podcast any said that but uh he talked about like the Circle City mall and like the new development going on there and like I

think there's a lot of creative developments um even from like old Office Buildings and like all this like the space in which we operated in 20 let's say 2018 2019 is just a little bit different than the physical space that's needed in 2024 2025 and Beyond kind of like I was talking about with like infill locations I mean if you even drive up into Carmel right now there are these giant parking lots that are outside these Office Buildings you know do we need these giant parking lots how can we repurpose these giant parking lots do we put in structures do we make multif family housing

in there somehow and it can be for sale product it can't be rental product it'll be really interesting to see how the again the urban planning comes together let's replace them with we need more pickleball we need more pickle I mean it's fastest growing sport oh absolutely it's mean it's going crazy okay I have a this will be fun then let's talk about um amenities you you've been in the business since early 2000s and like what were you seeing back in you know 2004 5 6 where it was like a a good multifam complex needs to have X Y and Z amenities for it to

be like uh top of the line I would say that uh simply everybody had to have pool right like if you didn't have a pool then you weren't even in the game fitness center became if you didn't have a fitness center and then through these 20 plus years I we've gone from yeah we've got this little room over here and it's got like you know a multi- gim in the corner and it's got uh you know a treadmill over here and a little bike to now I mean like state-of-the-art equipment you know with cable machines and free weights and whatever else and and a lot

more square feet um that we did now one of the things that uh John leaned into especially early on probably in the 90s and and with a lot of our projects uh we built these halfcourt gymnasiums and as part of our uh clubhouse areas and so I think that was a unique feature to us I think he saw that in some other market and was like well shoot We're in Indiana we should be putting some gems in and um so that's been a unique amenity that we've put in uh in more recent years we've paint been painting lines on on that floor for pickle ball

where we can have like kind of the mobile pickle ball net that can go in there I remember when we first built a few of them we put like volleyball nets in and it's like no no no we're payt it for for pickle ball courts which is kind of cool you know beyond that because you know fire code and things like that you can't have a grill on your patios we've tried to put in these really nice like you know grilling stations where people can come to one I toured Penrose downtown which is like corner of massav and is that I don't Michigan like right

that corner by Ras Keller and like we went toward the penthouse and did all the stuff there and the outdoor setup there is crazy like bot ball putting green hot tub and pool massive grilling station yeah so cool and so that's become kind of a critical piece to what we do too but also just kind of like Lounge areas of always been kind of key to what we've been doing um uh and we've turned that more into what I would call kind of like a even like a work from home kind of you know comfortable place where people feel like they can sit at a

table maybe you know do a little bit of work outside of their kind of coffee shop Vibes yes you got it coffee shop Vibes so that's been kind of more of a trend of what we've done so it used to be like this club room where it was like we would invite people in for events or parties or whatever it is but we've tried to make it more coffee house kind of vibes okay and then where where do you think uh like the most silly amenities are where you see like other places have it where it's like you know they have expiry thing and it's

like you know it looks good on a pamphlet but then like it doesn't actually it isn't practical in in real life the golf simulator and I'm I'm a golfer but I just feel like when you invite people in to use a technology that they're not familiar with it's just going to probably end up creating a bunch of you know problems or it's going to be broken or who knows what's going to happen and um I've seen it before we're going to try it I don't know one of our new properties which proper a property is called hide Park it's up at Saxony kind of you

know by Deer Creek and Hamilton Town Center okay and there getting a golf Sim yeah we're going to have a golf Sim in there we'll have a little putting green there too what are what are like if you had amenities like the most requested it's just like it's not feasible oh uh I wish this had a well and you know like I think bigger pools um are requested a lot if you go down south like some of these properties like in Texas and stuff they have like lazy rivers and stuff like that however they're you know obviously temperatures are a lot hotter all year round

we we use our our pools are open what maybe four to six months out of the year um at most so for us to do like a really exp take a lot of real estate and do these expansive pool amenities it's a little bit unrealistic for us yeah that's fair when you're thinking throughout the state if um whether it's renting or buying you know just like you know housing where do you feel like the biggest opportunity that people maybe investors might be missing out on like say oh you know like if I was an investor whether it's single family multif family I'd be looking at

developments here I don't know how's that sound hey I appreciate you not trying to us I think there's going to be some additional expansion uh like I kind of we talked about I think we're Hamilton County continues to be um a hot bed I I do think there's a lot of potential if we can get the numbers to to work on the west side and the south side though U those areas cater to I'll just call it more of a blue collar type of demographic however um they still have like all those conveniences that I talked about earlier you know with uh the shoppings nearby

uh jobs are nearby near to highways all those kind of things however um I would say from an affordability standpoint our construction cost and the rents we need to get it's they they cater to downtown they cater to the north side um it can be a little bit more challenging to build a property and get the rents and some of these other markets that cater more toward just call it the lower income yeah I mean and I I think you see that right it's like if you build a if you build a 200 unit complex in Carmel it's like you can charge a premium because

there are lots of people that want to live in carel or near Carmel or around there like anywhere on the North side and then like as you go further south I do see you know a lot of like more affordable home and homeowners and things like that are I feel like we very common down there but our properties in those areas right now they're full you know and we're we're raising rents and we're getting higher rents than I thought we'd ever get on those because there's definitely a demand and so I don't think there's been as much uh development in those areas and they definitely

could absorb some more units I love that I think this has been super informative when when uh people are considering Indianapolis like let's say you know someone from Ohio or Arizona stumbles AC upon this podcast and they're like you know what I'm thinking about moving to Indiana what are like a few things they need to know when selecting housing there's no public transportation here okay so as we talked about there there is a bus it runs some places but like there's very little you need a car or you need to live downtown so you know I think the key that you need to keep in

mind is you know what's your commute going to look like what's your parking situation going to look like where you know can you walk to work can you you know what's do you have to hop on a highway those kind of things so to me is how you get where you need to go and the answer is always 20 minutes yeah like anywhere you need to go it's 20 minutes pretty much but which which is also awesome about Indianapolis right like in the in the market in general I feel like you can get anywhere in just about 20 30 minutes I would say like don't

be intimidated like if your office is downtown but you want to live like somewhere north of that or south of that anywhere it's like do not be intimidated like 8 10 miles or whatever it's it's it's quick but you can move to B that said that's where I place my number one value and I think too when we see that people come in and and then maybe even move they realize like oh you know it'd be nice to be closer to work so proximity matters right and so um as you're looking for anywhere and I think that's where the north side has so many conveniences

those kind of things quick access to 465 highways that's always great you know next beyond that um what are people looking for shoot uh from a from an apartment standpoint um to me it's it's about obviously the location but um what I'm hoping people are looking for is what kind of service are you getting Apartments have a tendency to be what I called commoditized where it's like you know it's a box it has a price but I do think there's a level of you know how the property's kept up the the way the team treats you manages your pro manages the process if you're move

in your move out you know how you fix things those those kind of things and you can find that out through online reviews and uh that's my next biggest recommendation is like it's a pain in the butt to find a place to live I think whether you're buying a home or you're looking for an apartment it's it's kind of a painful process um because you don't do it that often and you don't want to it's one of the biggest checks you're going to write that month each month and you don't want to make a mistake and so to me you got to do your homework

make sure you get a good location uh make sure the the reputation of the the management company or whoever you're working with is good then on top of that you know um of course the features that you're that you're looking for I mean everybody's gonna have similar features but there's gonna be some more unique ones and gotta keep those in mind is there a way to like I won't say test drive but like if you're walking in and like let's say you have five like you have five apartment tours in a day or three whatever and it's like what kind of questions could they ask

what kind of things could they do to like really test what the culture is going to be like or what could they say to because I feel they all start to blend together they do and I think that's one of the biggest challenges that you know Erica and I have been trying to you know work through is how do we help people through that process I was the vice president of marketing for 18 years or whatever before uh you know moving into more of the overall operations role and so as we work through you know not only how do you get people's attention and get

them to notice you but how do you help them through that process and in my mind it's it's about painting the picture first you know hey how's this going to work um okay here's what we expect people to do um they're probably going to get to our website they're going to look through the photo of course of our property we've got a bunch of you know 3D matterport tours on our website those kind of things now there's going to be floor plans those kind of things but really the next step for come talk to somebody and I know that seems a little counterintuitive in uh

today's space where like you can have everything online but I I'm so almost flipping it old school and if you look at I think about it now like travel agents are becoming like more in Vogue now yeah they are and they're and they're they're ramping up and PE and people are starting to use them more they're getting burned on airbnbs and there's nothing worse when you show up to an Airbnb that had this Immaculate these Immaculate pictures and you're like oh like I this just happened to us we went to Grand Rapids to see the AL to see Allen Jackson freaking great show phenomenal and

we pull up to our Airbnb and my friends are all like like the pictures were so good I and I always send it to everyone like everyone asked good pictures are great like oh my gosh this place looks sick we pull up and like the outside of the place is like it's it's bad like we're in a rough part of town like we don't feel safe and we're like looking around like and they're like is this the right address and I'm like I think so and we like get inside and like I can like hold up the phone and I'm like these I got catfished

I got catfished on Airbnb it's crazy and so and you know and I I think because of the way different websites and cookies are tracking you you almost can't trust what prices you're seeing sometimes and and things like that too so I think people want to feel like they're getting a fair deal they're getting treated right and the best way to yes do your research do your homework right uh try to narrow down your search like you kind of said Hey what if what happens when I get to like my top three or my top five choices you got to go talk to somebody and

the best way I think you will find out on whether or not you're going to lean one way or another is how you're treated and I I joked for a long time when we would do sales training um with our teams and the phone I go the only reason people are calling is to confirm all the stuff that they found online and to make sure that you're not an like that's it like that is it and and too often I think especially sales people in general it's like they felt like they had to like sell something online no I'm like you just need to get

people to feel comfortable yeah oh my gosh yeah and like be willing to be like oh I could see myself living here I always say it's like or if they're walking in like let's say you're going into the leasing office I'm always like you know like talk to a resent maybe just be like like what do you think of this place and if was like oh my freaking the landord never fixes the elevator it's always freaking broken like like huh okay like keep that in mind like when the the like or like whoever's taking you on your tour is like oh the elevator's just down

this week but like oh that's just like crazy it's like oh interesting okay good to yeah start to get that validated like what trust but verify right you got it you got it um well cool this has been super fun I think we've learned a ton about housing in in Central Indiana Beyond but I have a couple fun little segments to end the show here and we're going to get uh some rapid fire questions before we get into the lightning round we're going to start with our younger years segment so this question is brought to you by our friends at or Fellowship they're a great

organization here in Indianapolis and their newest branches down in Evansville and they're helping develop young Business Leaders and entrepreneurs across the state so Mark what advice would you give to your 22-year-old self I'm going to go back to that manager I was talking about when I was 22 years old that bought the million dooll home in in LA and she actually gave me this piece of advice and i' I've stuck with it she had observed that I was not afraid to challenge the status quo and challenge the way things got were done and I'd probably tell my 22-year-old S you're going to do a great

job of that but at some point you're going to get kind of stuck in your your ways at some point and become some old fart and you need to make sure you continue to challenge yourself and so uh that is probably what I would tell myself is to keep following that advice um uh there's been times I would say like in um especially here like in my 40s where I'm like ah it's just easier to do it this way kind of thing but I tell you what everybody should continue to challenge like the status quo for sure I love that that's great advice and like

keep that when you're 22 42 62 72 like keep pushing that because that's where the the growth happens in that uncomfortability you got it man and I too often I think and I don't want to get too philosoph here but like if you think about even the way we went to school and the systematic approach everything's got everybody's like you got to do this you got to show up this day and do this it's like H sometimes you gota I think you got to push to the edges a little bit on that I love that well that that's great advice and I think that really

resonates um with the audience uh I do want to talk as we get into the lightning round you do have a YouTube channel correct o it's it's probably a little Dusty the apartment nerd so tell me about this journey I will so what was this was probably like the mid 2000s right you know Myspace kind of you know came about uh Twitter came about Facebook you know had had kind of come about what was that like 2005 2007 somewhere in there right you know the Firebelly marketing guys Duncan Duncan yeah so Duncan got some PR and Firebelly marketing got put like in the indie star

and I remember our at our time uh Dennis Funkhouser our VP of property management he like hands me this article from the indie star he's like hey and we were in some challenging times and we were given like two months rentree I mean it was a tough time in the apartment Market space what year is this this is like 2004 2005 right and I mean we were coming out of like a tough spot like marketing and all this kind of stuff he's like hey maybe we should look into you know this group and I was like yeah that's interesting yeah and so I met Duncan

and my this whole thing took off of us just like leaning into social media really trying to look learn lean into more of you know what is our online presence look like as a whole and to test essentially and learn all of these guess channels if you will online I took it upon myself to just kind of like I guess from a personal brand or personal standpoint figure out what does it mean to blog can I create videos posting content whatever right shoot at that time even Twitter was almost like a chat room it more than it it was almost like a versus maybe how

it is now it almost seems like just a news source but um oh early Twitter was fun yeah I was just like a little kid but it was so great so anyway uh somewhere along the lines in there um I went to a conference and it was the at that time it was the apartment internet marketing conference it's now the apartment and Innovation and something marketing conference I think I remember the the guy who ran the conference um Steve lefkovitz he he got up there and he was just like who in here is a nerd you know and and like you know and he raises

his hand and I'm like I am you know and so it was like from that point for that I was like that's the brand name now I'm the marketing or the apartment nerd so and then you just and you just rolled with it yeah and so then I just I turned every I went I turned everything into the apartment nerd from that point forward and just started kind of slapping that brand on it and a lot of it everything that I kind of created was just along these ideas of like challenging the status quo so a lot of the content that you you you would

see through the YouTube channel or whatever was just like hey why do we do this in why do we Market this way why are we spending money doing this this this way why is this company doing this this way and um just challenging the status quo was kind of like the whole I guess theme of everything I love it well after after putting content out what was the biggest thing you learned uh that it's not that hard but at first there's a learning curve you can I mean I think you've probably seen this but like the first stuff you put out like my first blog

I probably ever put out if I read it right now itd probably be embarrassing you know like how bad it looks and doing it and then doing it on a regular basis um you got better and it wasn't hard it just took a little bit of time I always say it's kind of like uh when guys grow their hair out it's you just got to make it through that awkward phase like you just got to make it through that awkward like I go back on some of my videos and I'm like dude brother you posted that but it's like but if I wouldn't have posted

those ones then I wouldn't be able to post what I do today you have to like go through those iterations well you start creating efficiencies along the way then it you know you speed up your process the editing isn't as bad um you get creative it's I don't know I you got to love the process I guess and that's where I kind of got to the point where I was like this is fun I love it well it is time for the lightning round so I have a few fun questions for you we're going to just keep it easy lighthearted first one it's like what's

your favorite style of architecture style of architecture um I am I do love some like classic European type style stuff Victorian kind of like French country even kind of thing I mean our house is kind of this French country kind of you know look to it but uh you know when we I took a a family trip to Europe um not this past summer but the previous summer and I to me I just I soaked in all that old European type of architecture I love that I'm I'm like a pillars columns like I really I really enjoy like like the old Plantation style those are

dope yes those are great too um what's your dream home feature Dream Home feature like if you could just like wave the magic wand and put anything in your home any whatever what what would you have golf simulator yeah he's like not not for the residence just for my house that's right uh no that's probably yeah the one thing that I would love to have is like a like a golf room so it not you'd have a simulator you'd have like a putting area on like the other side I feel like a golf it's actually not that expensive golf cave would be pretty sweet you

just got to have the real estate for it right that's fair actually okay here's a free business idea anyone can have it if they want it we we thought about the idea of like converting whether it's shipping containers or trailers or whatever into like like the golf sheds yeah we thought that'd be like you just build a Sim and you like drop off this little manufactured house someone puts in their backyard and like here's your golf cave yeah everything can be awesome yeah so if you want that idea feel free to take it okay it's all it's all yours whoever out there listen whoever wants

that yeah um we kind of already got into this but I had what's the best Indiana city to live in best Indiana city to live in is Caramel Indiana and if but you can hate me for whatever that is but what if you had to summarize it what makes caramel great but its location is fantastic I mean proximity to 465 to get anywhere you need to to still being centralized in an area where they've built up a lot of amenities and stuff that where you almost don't need to leave it's a like I I go I joke about it and I during Co Hamilton County

had to be the best place on the planet to live you if you lived in Hamilton County you were in a bubble in which you could get everywhere you needed to be you could also still be as safe as you wanted to be and um you could still go and still do stuff that you wanted to do and still feel like you were not you know like you were you were safe you were you had all that what everything you needed and I I can't imagine living in anywhere else the most carel thing you ever could have said was it's like our own little bubble

like yeah it is it is you're not wrong it is and I don't even by the way you said he lives in car I don't live in Caramel I actually live in Westfield oh so there you go I grew up in Carmel though you grew up in Carmel but now you live in Westfield now I live in Westfield mean that's the same thing basically I call it the Hamilton County bubble Westfield will actually take offense to that I'm going to get them in the comments they're going to be like don't ever say that Westfield is common yeah um what is the most Indiana thing in

your house signed picture of bob Knight throwing the chair that's probably the most Indi autographed by Bob autographed by Bob Knight that's probably the the most Indi thing okay wait did did you get it you go up to him and have him sign it how did that work somebody found it gave it to me as a gift you know and I'm like that's an awesome gift since so that is probably the most Indiana thing that is a very Indiana thing okay and then final question for before we get to our last like three consistent questions we ask all the time what's the coolest property you've

ever visited in Indiana have you been to the Restoration Hardware I haven't but everyone says I need to I don't know even what what you call that um it's like the Mansion thing the Mansion yeah that's pretty spectacular that that comes to top of mind I guess you could say a friend's house well I'll call it like Loft that he had in downtown Indianapolis kind of near massav as well and like that blew my mind that was pretty special uh like Loft above like just like you get a it's like he had like he had this Warehouse Loft like House downtown in and out it's

and I you didn't even know what it was and then I went to some event party there or whatever it was um with the apartment association I was like this is amazing um pretty spectacular I always like I always I was hoping maybe it's like uh didn't Tony Stewart have a compound like down by Columbus or like there is some like cool there's some cool like big like uh Scott Jones had his like Mansion up somewhere on the North side like there are some cool the the Lucas Oil estate or whatever John Hart has a pretty badass uh lake house up in Culver Indiana Oh

on Max yeah yeah okay that's pretty cool uh so I try not to talk about you know personal stuff there but he does have a pretty nice place we go up and we rent a house on lake max once a week my my I say we my best friend family does and I just like tag along with them and it is my favorite Lake in the state of Indiana fantastic it is so cool and I think 's have a house up there too we're not like telling where anyone lives but like if you Google Map it it's not very hard to find yeah not very

hard to find but uh this the little town of Culver fantastic place in Indiana the Lake House Lake Shore Grill Lake House Grill yeah Lake House Grill uh Papa Pizza so good and uh yeah shout out to the Papas folks uh yeah if if you want what I think is probably the best pizza in Indiana I think it's Papas and Culver I think so that is big praise I would say like normal Pizza like normal Pizza yeah I'll call yeah you're right I'll call it like a Tavern pizza kind of thing cuz there's like the fancy bougie like i' I've I have been ridiculed yeah

and like people have poked and proud out of all stuff so like Yelp released their you know 2024 top pizza and futuro downtown Indies Detroit style it's it's like Artis like it's really really good pizza but say papas is up there for like Tavern style like Tavern style P it's right up there with um Al imporium you know it's which is also another just great Tavern style pizza and I I'm telling this is and if people can disagree with sauce makes the pizza and if you say anything else makes a pizza other than sauce you're wrong that there we go I will hot day Hot

D got the pizza hot takes I love it pza hot well all right here we go we're going to get into the lightning round and we can we can chitchat about some of your favorite stuff so so uh what's something the world needs to know about Indiana the world needs to know about Indiana oh man we are under the radar and it's fantastic so you don't want the world to know anything no well again I had that meeting with that group even yesterday um that's talking about converting these uh you know extended stay hotels and they were like oh my God every time we come

here we're like this place is fantastic and they're from Richmond Virginia or whatever right and also like oh I was thinking Richmond Indiana no they're from Richmond Virginia it's like they every time they come here like this place is great why wouldn't anybody want to live here and she's he's like you know you guys just like fly into the r or I'm like yeah we kind of like it that way all right I like that I like that uh Mark what is a Hidden Gem in Indiana if there is any artist that you remotely like and they come to the padium you should go it

is the best sounding venue you'll ever go to a concert at ever like what kind of artists come through the plaum often it is more like I'll call them like classical artists or their older artists but every now and then you get kind of some like pop ones that fill in there like I saw Jason morz there I saw Boys to Men there I've seen um Darius Rucker there and I saw sting there probably most recently and so you can get a variety but I recommend anybody who has is within driving distance the Palladium look at their always look at their lineup each year and

if there is an artist that you remotely like go go see them there what do you what makes it sound so good it it was completely designed for that purpose and they've actually improved it even over the years and made it even better to be the essentially best audio quality sounding essentially theater ever all right January 11th let's sing Taylor a live band experience celebrating Taylor Swift hey there you go they do they usually have a country you said you went to Allen Jackson they usually have some country a lot of country artists that come to they have like a country I'm like I'm like

looking through you have to keep there's a lot of like uh like the fome prison experience legendary Johnny Cash concert like okay I'm going to keep that the padium on my on my bucket list then of like venues I need to go check out because I have heard this like I heard this feedback yeah like there's some the Red Hot Chili Pipers oh myy yes so there are there are some obscure things that are coming in there but you know what they're really trying to uh improve that I I was um talking with the their new director that kind of took over a couple years

ago happen to be at a an event with um true you which is a leadership kind of uh I guess networking type of type of group here based out of fishers but he was there as part of that and we were chitchatting about some of the stuff that they're trying to improve I love it final question you get to give some love to another hooer who's a hooer that we need to keep on our radar are someone who's doing big things answer number one would be uh Pat Chittenden and Pat is a fraternity brother of mine um patch development is his company uh his he

is uh one of the major projects he's working on is that mad an Stadium there up off 69 and so um he's doing some big things as it relates to uh commercial real estate development in Indiana um really has taken off um as well in the last few years and I think him and his team are doing a great job in that space um and he'll be somebody to kind of watch as they continue to grow um and then the other the other one and I'm going to go sports and it's going to be my hot take for day but Chris Ballard uh Indianapolis Colts

Chris Ballard is completely underrated because everybody uh treats him as from a wins and losses standpoint but he is uh one of the best football Minds out there wow that might get some backlash it can I love it but he's one of the hardest working men I've ever met in my entire life okay is that come from a personal relationship yes all right I like that then I'll take that cuz a lot of times people like either you know throw hate for or throw praise or whatever and it's like you don't you don't if you actually know him I love that I do know him

I know him really well and he uh he's one of the hardest working men in sports heck yeah well after the season when Chris wants to come and chop it up with us on the podcast we'll make that happen heck yeah we'll talk we'll talk everything but football that's hard to do with him oh I love I'm telling you he's just he's he's he loves the game I love it uh mark this was awesome I think that uh I hope the listeners get a ton out of this of like housing in Central Indiana and and hly just like things that are going on Beyond and

how you can find your place here in um in Central Indiana and Indiana in general uh obviously I'm going to subtly plug like go check out JC Hart they have some amazing amazing facilities all across the state from Bloomington to West Lafayette up to you're working on something in South Bend right working in South Bend and then you said uh helping with a development but it's not one of yours in Fort Wayne Fort Wayne yep that's awesome I mean I think it's cool to see you guys investing all across the state I did like the video will be live go check out uh my tour

of the penthouse at Penrose yeah I had an insanely cool time there like the view is incredible like you can see all of downtown pretty special oh my gosh like and it's like one of those we felt really lucky to like be a part of that project you know I mean you never know when you're in a historical you know area of downtown and um we want to make sure you put in something right and we our architecture or our architect um you know that we worked with on that one you know really we wanted to make it right and I think it turned out

great oh my gosh it's awesome like and the amenities in the center of it like all the cool stuff like I definitely recommend go check it out and see if you can guess what the uh the the monthly rate is of the penth house at P so mark thank you for stopping by uh until next time we'll have you back on and we'll we'll chop up about all things maybe we'll check in on zville and see how they're doing yeah we'll see yeah appreciate you thanks thank you for listening to this episode of get in if you liked what you heard make sure you leave

us a review wherever you listen to podcast this show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater whether you're trying to start your own podcast or looking to take your show to the next level make sure you check out sweetwater.com for all your creator needs if you want exclusive behind the-scenes content on all things Indiana make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok @ Nate spangle thank you for being part of what makes the hooer state so amazing we'll see you next week here on get in