I think we both just wanted to win and that's where the drive came from like there is a need cuz no one knows how to do anything with it I mean everyone supported us through all this how would we not give back to the same people where was the first moment when you guys kind of felt like hey we might have something here from South bin to Evansville and everywhere in between this is get in the show focused on the hooer state and the incredible stories happening here today I'm Nate spangle founder of get Indiana and I will be your host for today's conversation all right folks if you're in the mood for some iously Good Eats let me tell you about the HC Tavern and Kitchen in the heart of the Fishers District it's the spot whether you're grabbing a business lunch brunch with friends a romantic dinner or just hanging out and enjoying some cocktails they have huge culinary Classics like the world famous s Elmo shrimp cocktail and the filet sliders as well as dishes you can only find at the HC Tavern like the lobster Caro and the spala steak I mean come on does it get better than that and you know what's awesome it's right near all the action close to the fish Event Center Ikea and top golf so no matter what your day is looking like a stop at the HC Tavern and kitchen just makes sense the vibe is super welcoming With A Touch of Class perfect for any occasion whether you're out with friends or making it a date night so whether you're in the area looking for a fun night out or looking for a place to grab a bite after shopping swing by the HC Tavern and kitchen you'll see what I'm talking about Good Vibes amazing food and amazing Hospitality now let's get back into it today I'm joined by Jack hope and Brad persk the owners of Hope Plumbing a fullservice locally owned Residential Plumbing Company serving Indianapolis in the surrounding area today we're going to be talking about the founding story of Hope plumbing and their Journey over the last 17 years how they're investing in the community and how that helps fuel their business strategy and the future of trades in Indiana as well as Talent attraction and these different options that high school graduates can think of as they're uh coming out of high school and thinking about what's next for them Jack Brad welcome to the show thanks sweet good to be here I am excited about this one so anyone that's in the greater Indianapolis area that maybe spends a little bit of time in South Broad Ripple knows that hope Plumbing runs the 54 in college billboard scene yeah like there's always something cool on there I actually I don't remember who you guys took it over from but a long time ago maybe five years when I just moved to town there was an ad and it said pick up the phone and call something something for insurance and there was no number on the billboard and I remember taking a video thinking like that is like horrible market and then I think pretty soon after that like you guys started getting on there and I've run some of the funniest ads run some awesome Community ads and I just love seeing that and it's it's just been my first foray into learning about Hope plumbing and how active you guys are in the community and I'm super excited to give into that but before we get into what it looks like today let's go back 17 years and hear about how you guys got your start and what caused you two to want to go start a plumbing company so Brad and I long story short found ourselves working at another Plumbing business here in town 25 and 24 somewhere in that range both of us needed jobs this was a family friends business and they were they were great to us I mean they genuinely were super awesome to Brad and I but I think we just had different ideas Visions for what we wanted to do and started having you know the sort of like conversation about like what would it look like if we did this and could we keep ourselves busy and one way or another some combination of Brad wrapping up his four years of schooling to get his Plumbing license my grandfather dying in April of 07 it was like the push that I think we needed to like all right let's let's do it Brad's wife was also pregnant at the time so there was so so in 2007 we were going to leave our jobs with a pregnant wife and start a business and if you guys can all remember what was happening around 2007 it was a pretty hectic time in the US so yeah there was there was a lot going looking back it seems pretty wild it was wild it was awesome what was the final Domino that like LED you to you know jump ship pregnant like you got to really be convicted to do something if you're willing to put not only your livelihood but your family your spouse and your future child's livelihood on the line on that yeah for sure for me that was the push like that was I I joked I have four kids I joke that uh that was my motivation I just kept having kids because it like pushes you to grind harder and harder for them uh which is not exactly accurate but yeah it was it was more so it's like now or never you know my my wife's pregnant she has the baby then your life is speeding up like if let's take a chance now and I think you need to touch back that Jack was contemplating going back to school or you were going back to I was in school well it was the summer that I decided to not go pursue a doctorate and to stay and get the master's degree in Indianapolis so that wait hold on your options were get your doctorate or start a plumbing company that's right that's sick what were you studying what was the doctor going to be philosophy so I teach philosophy at I taught at iy Maran and I've been at Butler for four or five years you might be the only Plumbing philosopher it's a very niche market yeah okay I believe he is so your your decisions were you keep pursuing the doctorate or you start a plumbing company your decisions were I'm about to have a child and it's now or never for entrepreneurship and let's just do this thing well yeah so Jack was my my uh manager my boss at this other company I was a plumbing service tech like he said I was in school getting my license and at that point my option I I just assumed I would be a plumbing technician that's what my career was going to be I was happy with that and then when we started you know seeing the direction this company was going and we worked really well together Jack had a lot of things he brought to the table from being into the office and then I was out in the field uh so we started having like more of a serious conversation at that point about going out on together on our own and then you know like he said he had to make a decision about school I had to make a decision with my family stuff going on and we just went for it I think that is I mean that's a crazy time and what a time to jump off 2007 on the verge of you know child doctorate so day one you're like okay we're going to do this plumbing company thing what does that look like like you you get started and you're like okay now we got to go out and knock on doors and say to either drain cleaned or yes I mean we started for the first I don't even know Year anyway if we weren't actively doing Plumbing work we were literally walking door too with door hangers and hanging them on doors and like my mom passed them out Carrie used to pass him out Brad's brother-in-law used to pass him out who now works for us so we'd like be walking like hanging door flyers and our phone would ring and somebody would you know have a week or whatever it was they'd be like do you have time to get to us today and we'd be like well let me check our schedule it's like yes we definitely have time but you know you're just trying to just trying to sound like you're professional you answer like hope Plumbing how can I get director call you change your voice like yeah we can be out there yeah it's pretty close to that dude I love it okay so so you're starting to drum up some business through these like Old School Grass Roots Community you know awareness there where was the first moment when you guys kind of felt like hey we might have something here I I do want to say the other huge part of our initial success was I worked at Sullivan's Hardware all through high school and Pat was kind enough to let us put business cards or flyers on the like counters at his stores and that was probably our biggest influx of work at the very beginning it was awesome the broad the greater Broad Ripple area kind of runs through Sullivan's Hardware right like if you get in with that crew oh it's awesome they're they're great and the working of the Norths side Catholic schools we both went to chard I mean you're you have an immediate in as far as once you put your name out there people are willing to take a chance on you and that that uh Norths side Catholic Mafia is you said Catholic school and I was like you mean the mafia right I mean I I totally agree so I'm from a small town in northern Indiana I come down to Indianapolis well I go to depa and then I end up in Indianapolis got connected to Shard to coach wrestling through Graham Wilkerson who is A Shard grad runs Genesis all those fun things and I was like dude private school like I don't know if that's I I'm a small like our town was 1,200 people one a like what town was it it's bourbon which is right by Plymouth and Warsaw right in the middle of those two and I was like I don't know if I'm a private school guy like Range Rovers and aies in the par like that's not for me and I show up day one and I'm like oh this isn't what all what I like what I had built up in my head and then I got into the community and it's like this small town within a huge town right I think that's a super accurate description of what those schools are and there was just as much if not more Community than in a small town like where I'm from you know like everyone's out at the football games everyone's supporting each other and and then yeah like you know talk about you're starting a business and you had experience like you had worked at Sullivans and they're like oh yeah we'll for sure support you in whatever you're doing I think that that's that's a really powerful piece of this like little North pocket of Indianapolis yep yeah it was super super helpful and so you're rolling through there and uh you're starting to drum up some early business and I think where was that moment when you're kind of like cuz I think you you start a plumbing company and it can end up as like we're just going to like you know work for ourselves yeah you know it's tough because I think those things are easier to see in hindsight than they are when you're doing it I don't know that there was a moment in real time where we were like this is it or something I mean Brad's heard me talk about this or we talk about it all the time when one of the first things that we ever bought with hope Plumbing money that wasn't like a plumbing part we went to dicks and bought each of us a nice pair of boots for the winner and I remember that feeling like man we've made it we we just bought work boots with like have to pay for this out of our pockets you know like it was a huge deal so that was one of them that's how small we were that gives you yeah that gives you an idea in that first year or so how much time were you out on job sites like were you having did you have work every day or was it like got to go drum up business we literally walked with Flyers any moment we weren't working and it didn't I I was thinking about this this morning as I was coming in I mean there were times where we fixed a supply line on a toilet in Anderson at 1:00 a.
m. and something we kind of an unsaid thing that Jack and I did was we both ran to everything together we went to every call I hey this call just came in it's 2: in the morning and it actually doesn't take two people but we just did it together we both knew we were bought in 100% at that point well I have to ask that how did you end up with the name on the Hope's just a way cooler name than pers we arm wrestled for it really that is I don't know if anyone that's watching it home but I did not sit down no I it does yeah it is yeah hope is a much uh more marketable and Jack left that the earlier when we were talking about he left that plumbing company and started as I stayed and finished my schooling that's not the only reason I mean persic is my last name hope I mean putting those two on the side of a truck one is much more visible easier it's positive word it's a yeah hope and person kind of sounds like a law office yeah yeah exactly okay so that makes sense so you're roll you're rolling through there you got some boot money for the winner things are kind of where did you kind of get to the point where you had enough work coming in that you started to add your team and when you're thinking through that like making that first higher is I think it's a a little bit of a daunting first task it happened slowly over time like well it the first person to start doing work for us did some work part-time and like was doing after hour stuff or whatever it was or would take a call that Brad and I couldn't get to or cover a weekend or whatever that looked like so it was a it wasn't this like All or Nothing hire for the first hire we sort of slowly walked our way into it I mean honestly it was just as the phone continued to ring I remember sitting in the truck with Brad on so many days and looking at our schedule like this is this is the calls that we need to get to and being like well this is already impossible like 7:30 in the morning and there's no way this is all going to happen after several months of doing that and working and our wives never knowing when we were going to get home or how long customers as long as you would allow us in our H in your house we would come it didn't matter if it was 9:00 10 p.
m. we were just willing to do every job presented to us and there wasn't some huge business plan there we were just doing J work to ideally buy ourselves a lot of freedom you know by working for yourself you think that right you yeah yeah so that was the idea and I would say to answer your question in our heads it was like if we could get to a million dollar in sales a year I remember having this you know we've talked about it several times that was it like we did it we we did a million dollars in sale and to be honest we got there after uh pretty quickly after a couple years in pretty quickly in like to me pretty quickly is like oh in within the first year like how many years it take you to get to that bench um three or four yeah I think so many young entrepreneurs or like people that want to go start a business think that it's just like up and to the right you know like you just start this and they don't know about going to Anderson to fix a water supply line and then it takes three years to hit or four years or whatever it is to hit your goal that you initially set out to do like four years is that's an entire college career yeah like that's not just like oh it happened pretty quickly like a long time I was also thinking just a second ago and you were talking about this that one of the mistakes that people make is like as we're talking about like know what was the goal and how did you decide it's like we just knew we needed to get busy and we just kept going and kept going there like later when the business was like real we started making plans but at the beginning it was just go so people ask me all the time like at Butler or wherever like what advice would you give me and you about about some specific question and I'm like just get started like you're going to change your mind 15 times don't don't try to pre-plan like just get going and you will you will figure it out but if you just you'll if you just sit there and keep thinking about all the different ways you could do it you'll never you'll never get anywhere just get started I I love that advice cuz so many people get caught up on their business plan and filing their LLC and this that I'm like don't file an LLC till you know you can like make some money with this thing like you don't have to worry about filing your taxes until you have money to file you need to file right or like a lot of times college kids will ask me like I want to start this business like what do you think about this idea yada yada y and I'm just like have you have you made the free Instagram account for it have you bought the $9.
99 URL to build a website like and it's like these all these little baby steps you can just like start taking to like see if there's a reason to do this like is should this business exist or not and then a lot of it's just like willing it to like being able being willing to spend four years no matter what hour of the day it is like showing up and building your reputation I say I mean the fastest way to overnight success is 10 to 12 years of consistent hard work and I think if you told anyone when they're 21 or something hey if you really work your butt off right now for 10 years you can get to where you want to be I it sounds like you said a lot of people want to get this in two years but that's really not that long of a time in the grand scheme of things you just have to be willing to be consistent and work hard but consistency is a big part of it every day I'm sure you guys can look back and there's not like one marketing effort that you did that just took you from zero to a million no or there's it was Colleen exactly that's what did it when it's like and everyone thinks like oh like from the media perspective they're like you have to get one video to go viral and then you'll have millions of followers and every and it's like no you just have to be good consistently well you're a wrestling coach I mean how many kids I mean yes you get some phenoms but most of them are the ones that are just willing to work every day that become really successful it's the compounding interest there it's yeah and it's never the answer someone wants to hear like you don't need there's no get-rich quick scheme right it's all you have to be good consistently over and over and over and they're like that seems really hard I don't know if I want to do that like I don't know if I want to drive to Anderson at 1:00 a.
m. to J you I don't either you don't you don't want to but you just that's the option yeah okay so I want to get to a little bit of like that family Dynamic right so you have your first child how far into the like what less than nine months into the business right I mean she had just gotten pregnant so yeah about a year pretty much a year and so you have a child at home you're doing you know all these jobs working together how does the idea are you saying I was absent K I'm saying like you're I was going a lot for that am in those like early years uh of a business the infancy of a business and the infancy of an infant that's a hard thing to balance Y and so what was going through that Dynamic and and just take us to where your what your life was like in in that moment it was really busy my wife also did hair so she worked the evening so ideally when I could get home and luckily my mom had just retired and she lives close so she was a big help there but yeah it was a lot of passing by each other like hey you had the kid all day I got home later I relieved my mom and then you know she got home late from doing hair and you know like Jack said it was there wasn't some business plan we were just one job after another and uh luckily we both had supportive wives that were just like we didn't really know we just kept working one day after another and it's it's almost like a fog you know those those first four or five years were just and then we joined a best Practice Group which assigns us a business coach and we work with other hhc plumbing and electrical companies throughout the nation that is when we started to get serious so at that point we were at about two2 and5 million dollar 1.
8 1. 8 is when is what we were yeah I thought we were somewhere I thought we were over two actually CU I remember I had to take financial statements to go to the so you're doing 1. 8 million a year how many employees do you have at that time six or seven okay so it's a it's a good small business yeah it's great it's crazy like every step of the way we've thought like dude this is amazing there was never some part where it was like oh I feel like this is not fair I wish it was going better I think we enjoyed every part of it but like Brad's starting to say that joining this best practices business was really what we saw I I went to this first one and I saw a business that was a way bigger than we were I mean they were seven or eight times our size and I just had no until I saw that I just didn't know that was a thing that existed that there was a that there was a residential plumbing company with 75 employees doing $12 million in sales and had like five back hoes and like a c I was just like I couldn't like it took me the whole time there to wrap my head around it and I remember coming back and being like Brad we've got to get like uniforms and we've got to do he's like no we're not so it was I'm in this t-shirt 90% of my life hold on we need to be like polos tucked in and commercialized you know it was so that that was the beginning of I think starting to think of Hope Plumbing not as the business we were working in but as a business that we were going to work on and build and and that was eight years ago eight or nine years ago so you'd already been doing it for almost a decade at that point we were six or seven years in six or seven years in so 10 10 or so years ago is when we joined this best Practice Group which really that changed the trajectory for sure I mean we we've always had a pretty open dialogue between the two of us as far as like hey what we're doing and he was after coming back from that he's like I've got to get out of the field and you know you've talked to people that run businesses of getting out of the business and working on it rather than in it and that was the wakeup call we needed like oh we're we're at two million bucks maybe we could really do something serious here maybe we can like structure this and we have the people around us now to help us do that so and the resources so that's when we really started to dial in as a business rather than just two guys working for themselves do you have a good sense of a few of those early Domino so I I hear people all the time say don't you got to stop working in the business and start working on the business sure but then in in theory in the philosophy of it makes a ton of sense putting it into practice can be more difficult that your spot on so so do you have advice of like a few of those first actionable items that you did to start freeing up time or being more efficient or working on your business yeah real quick Jack I'll just say Jack came to me after this and was like I have to not run calls anymore I need to be in the office and again it speaks to the relationship that him and I have that we explain we discussed it and it's like yeah that's what makes sense because I was still going to run calls and I think there's a lot of people that are if you're not running calls why do I have to run call you know that type of behavior and and that was never the situation it was very clear like okay we'll do that and he left doing any calls he was answering phones he was doing invoicing we hired a bookkeeper I mean it was until I could do that that was the point was that there was all this stuff I mean that would be impossible to come up there was just all this stuff that I just couldn't do if I was in a truck with Brad and it was just like look if we want to do any of this stuff I have to stop doing calls that was sort of the decision and then from there you just start figuring it out when you came to say that were you like maybe nervous or was there like an emotion of like do you feel like you're bailing on your buddy that's like Hey we're going to be 50/50 in this and all they do the calls together like we have for years like maybe is we were always pretty driven and I think we both always appreciated that neither that both of us were trying to do what's best for everybody we had plenty of arguments but they were never about doubting someone's intentions that was never what was happening what to do with your time and energy was something we still fight about right but but knowing that we're both working towards the same goal was never a issue was I able to understand you know what I was asking of Brad I mean sure but I just I don't know it never occurred to me to not do it and I was able to understand why you were asking these things our relationship we are wildly fortunate the way we handle each other and the respect that we have for each other and like you said just simply knowing that we have the same common goal we might have different opinions on how we want to get there and we work through all of those and and that's just with no ego just simply knowing that both want the best for this company and I I think that's some some ego we just we just aligned our OS together he there you go all right y'all let's talk Hoops you know March manness is electric but here's something you need to have on your radar the women's basketball invitation tournament known as the wbit the NCAA launched this in 2024 and it's bringing high stakes high energy postseason basketball to women's basketball and guess what it's going down right here in Indianapolis at the legendary Hinkle Fieldhouse this is where history happens the semi-finals are March 31st and the championship is April 2nd so if you wi in on the action now is the time tickets are crazy affordable $29 for the championship game or just $44 for an all session pass to catch all the final rounds you can grab them on Ticket Master or by clicking the link in the description below don't miss this highlevel competition rising stars and that raw unfiltered passion that makes college basketball the best be there I I think that a lot of people talk about when you're finding your business partner like getting someone that has that's good at what you're not good at you know like filling up some of your your voids and things like that which is super smart but I do think aligning on like work ethic or drive cuz like the number one thing I feel like it's like a a little virus of like oh I'm way more invested in this than they are and then it just like and that just like creeps into everything that happen so often I see I have a ton of friends that blow up things that I think are amazing because of that very problem you know so what advice would you guys have for picking like a co-founder co-owner business partner that that you guys have thought about or have seen from other you know guys that you run around with in in the business circles I would just say work with one of us right just invest all I'm just kidding I honestly I don't know I mean in some ways it's like finding I don't know what else what other phrase to use but like your life partner you just got to figure out if that's your Vibe like is this your person or not like you're you got to go on a few dates yeah I mean it's all it's all part of it like you know people say like you know do you worry about this or is Brad better at this or is this and I'm like it's just not how we think about it any more than I get home and I start thinking about like well this is the part that I pitch into our relationship and this is what does like score really works for every good relation helpful right like so it's just we're in this together and I think the I mean if I had any real advice it would be to somehow verify that you guys are like actually going to trust one another through this process because if you're not you'll be in trouble real fast I agree that's a really good question and I think we just got really lucky by that but I think that knowing each other's core values and some times that word core values is thrown around so often that it drives me crazy but we did have we are wildly different people as far as interests I mean you know he's a philosophy teacher and I you know run around with a bunch of kids all the time and things like that and uh but we both have I'm tall you're short there's there it is there there you go now now you're seeing how he treats me um but honestly knowing that we have a core value and the respect for each other let me say something about luck I think it's people hurt themselves by not recognizing the ways in which they're lucky in which they're fortunate that are well outside their control and Brad and I have always been very aware of how fortunate we were to be in the positions that we were to have gone to a place like chard to have the support of our parents I mean to be able to have your mom come over and babysit is is a huge deal like it it's a huge deal right and and people people get caught up in their successes and they do this I pulled myself up by my bolt boot like stop stop I'm not taking anything away from what Brad and I did by saying that we've been fortunate and we've been lucky we just took advantage of the situation that we were in but we were in a really good position to start and I think people when they fail to admit that to themselves they make it a lot harder on themselves and the people around them frankly by not just like being honest about there's just a certain amount of luck that got Brad ey to this position and I always say it's like it's your job as the entrepreneur or the the motivated individual to do whatever you can to increase your surface area to catch that luck right where it's like when you work hard it's a better chance that you're going to get lucky everyone's like every successful business I don't care what it is like it's not just all piss and vinegar and sweat and determination like there's a little bit of luck in there somewhere 100% yeah I mean we started a business called hope Plumbing when Barack Obama was spending $97 billion marketing the word hope so like it was like we didn't choose that like we didn't we didn't know when we were 25 that there was going to be this continual labor shortage of plumbers which makes it so that we're just busy all the time like we didn't do some study where we figured out that the market research yeah however on on the flip side of that you're 100% right jack but we did identify the company we were working for prior to us going out on our own did 99% commercial work and during 2007 we identified really quickly that all those guys follow around one to five contractors and if those guys go belly up well you're in a really tough situation so we quickly learn that doing service work Jack says it all the time rather than going for a home run let's just hit singles you know 90% of money he gets on base yeah he gets on base let's get on B every time so yes while we didn't know some things we did identify pretty quickly that we needed to do service work and switch this up at a time that that was not popular so you join this best practices group you see this like next phase right where you can run this massive 75 person plumbing company with backos and all the fun stuff and and you start putting it into practice like you get out of the truck and get into the office and then what were some of the next big steps on there to get you guys to where you are today yeah I mean uniforms in my mind was one of them having processes of any kind I mean until then it was just kind of going you'd go in in the morning and you would just kind of do stuff all day until the stuff was done what we got from nextstar was offering different lines of products right so offering not just one type of water heater but two types of water heaters or asking somebody when you're at their house instead of just going in and like fixing the one thing that's there being like do you do you want me to do you want me to look at your other toilets to see if this is getting ready to do the same thing as the one that we're working on so we don't have to come back and you know three weeks to do the same thing or whatever so it just it made us start thinking about well learn learning to provide options sure and working with companies that were massive compared to us we're $50 million companies and and talking to people that were running those and just taking all those nuggets and implementing those and I also think we were able to identify the things we were not good at to hire people to do those things and that like what was the first one that you guys identified of like yeah we got to have someone do that answering the phone really scheduling calls uh it that's a tedious job I'd been doing it long enough that frankly I was just getting grumpy and it was like yeah you're you're kind of being a jerk on the phone and it's like I'm busy and I'm tired and I'm just trying to do stuff I don't mean it but that was one of the real obvious ones early on that it's like okay you stopped answering phones I started answering more phones we hired people to assist with that you started running the marketing and again it just was the same thing work yourself out of Marketing to the point where we needed to hire a marketer and and part of our goal once we identified okay we can be a business and let me just touch on that real quick you know in our position you can be self-employed or you can run a business and there's two different none neither of them are a bad thing but being self-employed are what Jack and I were doing where we have to do the jobs we have to be on the zoom calls we have to be there if you want to run a real business you can step away ideally for a year and your processes are running and people are running and you have people to run it and hire and delegate and and see the vision right and so we started to realize like okay there's a big difference in that and again neither of them are wrong some people just want to work for themselves and that was a great time and we wanted to keep pushing a lot of it for me and I think Jack too was it opens up so many more opportunities for other people to have jobs in to keep pushing Indianapolis and then we can do the community stuff that we do we can just open more doors for everybody right running a running a business versus being self-employed I think is a really an interesting thread to pull on because yeah it's like how many people do you know that are the founder the owner the CEO of XYZ thing but if they weren't there for a month they can't let go of the control and I think we were both able to do that as soon as we really started working with these groups and talking to other own owners and things we were like oh yeah well this person would be way better at doing this than I am or I'm I'm not great at this and and who could we have higher and and you know that's that's where the growth really started happening is when you let go it's not always holding it so tight well where was that first moment right you're doing you know you're a decade in I don't know if you guys were taking vacations and the other word cover for that I'd say the first big one was I stopped working Mondays I honestly don't remember what even prompted it was I starting to teach again I think you were teaching I think you took a teaching job yeah and I think you were like I'm going to teach on Mondays and it was and again back to our relationship I thought it was amazing I Know Jack has a passion for teaching and I know that he's always loved education and so why would I not want him to try to you know do the thing that he loves to do if we can make it work wow and so he like yeah you know Mondays I need Mondays to do the rest of my life I think it's that that's a pretty cool so eight years ago you were able to that that's when you can take your hands off right run it comes and goes the amount of time that Brad and I need to be in the office or working on a project or whatever the if you're too rigid about it you probably get yourself in a bad spot but that made sense for us at the time and I think I did that for a couple of years and then at one point I don't even remember where in there I started running the excavator again at some point you just like wanted to get back in there or needed to get back well the excavator that we'd hired who's great his name's Tony helier he's great dude he quit to start his own business that he still runs and it's a nice he's a I wish Tony nothing but the best but all of a sudden we needed somebody to run the backo we had jobs to do and we had a backo that like he had to pay for and I was like well I'll figure that out so I hopped in the back ho and my buddy Robert tingle and I did all of our excavation work for 18 months two years something like that no way that's fun yeah it's like a new challenge to go get to solve I love it it was I mean it was great there were days that it was really really cold but other than that it was really fun I don't know a guy that wouldn't want to just like like rip around in a backo for a day you know like that's a pretty good time it's by far my favorite thing to do in terms of Plumbing work absolutely so Brad you kind of mentioned uh your guys's involvement in the community and it is very significant if you live on this north side of Indianapolis you definitely have seen some type of event or or something where hope Plumbing was a sponsor a partner involved with where did that root from and like where when do you guys start prioritizing your local community so much I honestly don't know that we talked about it it just seemed obvious I mean some of it just seems like common sense I think part of it is my Sullivan's Hardware background I mean what I learned at at Sullivan's hardware and then at this business where Brad and I worked is that what people value more than anything else is the customer service experience I'm not saying price is not a factor but like what people report to us is that somebody was nice or clean or helpful you know I'm not saying we never discuss price but Sullivan Sullivan is the same way right like you go in there because you want the experience you want to support the local people and I remember doing things when I was there in high school and like it clicking that like yeah this thing is being sold at a loss but it's it's to provide a service to get people in here and then also Pat has always been phenomenal about supporting the community so honestly I don't know that there was a there was much of a conversation about it it just seemed like it was the clear thing like why wouldn't you support your community that's literally who your customers are and that's where the core values like it never was even a conversation it was more of like hey we have an opportunity to do this what what do you think which which one which uh tier do you want to do in this you know it was should we sponsor this or not it was like what are we going to sponsor well how much can we afford I mean everyone supported us through all this how would we not give back to the same people um it just seems literally just obvious this is not saying that you do it because it's a market thing but there's also like there is this is one of the way the places where I think Brad and I get along so well is people become so binary they see it as this or that and like with the question of what we're talking about right now it's not do you support your community because it's good for the community or because it's good for your business it's both and and that's just the answer you don't you don't have to separate those things both of those things can very easily exist at the same time what are a few of your favorite Community initiatives that yall have been involved in sponsoring haford Little League was one of the first ones like when we sponsored the whole field when it became hope Plumbing field that felt like a really cool one to me I don't yeah that's one that pops out to me I think sponsoring Pride honestly is a huge deal because it's not something that you see a lot of plumbing and HVAC businesses doing I think we stand out quite a bit by supporting the pride parade every year doing stuff with the Coburn Place was a big deal I I think what's cob place it's a sheltered for battered women and children so they can it's not something we do a ton of promoting for but we are able to like help them out because we don't that's one where you don't necessarily it's not all about marketing it's just about doing the right thing for people that need it and so again it's just the combination of doing all of it you know we have kids you grew up playing at havord so that's amazing yeah everybody knows somebody who's been in a um abusive relationship so that's amazing to help out if we can and then do doing things that are you know run 317 where people can you know promote being healthy it's just it's just doing all these things if we could do more we would the lights up parade was cool we put Yeah Christmas lights all over a truck and drove a truck in the Broad Ripple lights up parade oh that was fun no I and I think that that is super Bor and I I really appreciate your Insight there where it's it's not do you do this for the marketing or do you do this for the because it's the right thing to do it's like it can be both and I think that's that is such a good I in my head right in my head I was like well it's either you're doing this for yourself or you're doing this for and it's like no actually it can be both you can serve both purposes you can help the community you can grow hope Plumbing Growing Hope Plumbing May provide a job within that Community ideally later on down the road somebody's kid might see that and think it's cool or whatever it might be so it it yes it is like you said it's all of it you can give your wife flowers on Valentine's Day and think she's going to enjoy this and it will probably score me some points as well like it's all it's all the same like everybody gets so caught up in choosing yeah man I um I love that and I think that a piece of the community involvement that uh one it's the right thing one it helps with marketing but do a talent attraction right like when you're looking to snag a new service technician from another place or and you want people to know who you are know that you're trusted reputable and out in the in the in the community right so when it comes to Talent attraction how have you guys been able to bring top talent into hope I think it gets has become easier as we've gotten bigger because we become a desirable place to work I think what Brad and I have always been good at is retention and I only think that's because we have just continued to treat people like people and like be actually basically concerned about what their lives are like and recognize you know we still go through these conversations at work where some young kid is like you know doing stuff he shouldn't and it's like we're mad at him and it's like well wait he's he's 21 years old man like let's stop and have a conversation with him and like or reflect back to all the things we were all doing at 21 you know come on like do does he even know that this is a problem you know what I mean so for I think for Brad I so much of it was just perpetually trying to put ourselves in everybody else's shoes and and what I always tell people is is that our culture good or bad is a reflection of who Brad and I are as people it's us it's us through and through and like sometimes I think that can be frustrating it's sometimes not for people we can be a lot sometimes but other people come in and embrace it and we let people be themselves and like we don't have policies about like how hair how long your hair can be or if you can have earrings or tattoos we just we just let people kind of be people and I think that's how we have been able to retain people over time is that they just they just enjoy their jobs and as we've gotten bigger I mean we can be competitive on pay and benefits and we're we're a desirable place to work at this point and retention is a huge part of that right like when you get a good employee you need to keep them forever ideally right the other piece though is the Workforce Development side and bringing young kids up to become Plum we we did hire to answer you directly we hired a recruiter who recruited all the time that's all I mean we always say that we're always hiring it's still our biggest obstacle is really is getting texts that can go into the homes of the customers that we have and present themselves and it takes a lot to know all the processes in Hope plumbing and it takes dedication so and like we said at the beginning the hard work and coming to work every day can be a challenge for a lot of the workforce now and I do whenever I have you guys in right I always enjoy the personal personability is that a word right like it's a friendly face that comes in and knows their stuff and and sometimes you get like in any bluecollar industry you get people that are really good at the thing like you can fix the hell out of a garage door but it's like but you can't talk to but I don't I don't know if I want to talk to this garage is that way we understand I think that developing Talent is something that I talk to a lot of the trades and blue collar guests that I have Blue Collar guests that I have on here learning about how you guys are thinking about developing this next Generation cuz I don't know that many people that are like yeah I'm going to go to depal university and then I'm going to become a plumber all you're spot on with that yeah it's not the sexy thing to do right and the trades are but it's the whole thing right it's it at surface level it's not the sexy thing to do but like starting your own Plumbing business we're trying to change that narrative yeah I just spoke at Shard last year for career day and it's an odd thing when you're in a college Prep School discussing why the benefits are to what the benefits are to not go to college I mean I'm prepping my kids to go to college but at the same time I'm thinking exactly what you're saying like man so at Hope Plumbing our average technician just to be clear is making right around $100,000 a year they have no student loans or any debt they have a take-home truck we pay foro we pay for their schooling um it's tiered based on their grades but if you're paying attention at Plumbing school you can you can get an A I mean you just need to show up most of the time and it matters for your career so a lot of the guys do pretty well there we have I mean a cell phone paid for full benefits take-home truck matched 401ks I mean you can be 22 23 years old literally with no debt making over a 100 Grand with the opportunity to manage at some point if that's we have a lot of young guys that say Hey I would love to get out of the field perfect let's keep talking about this and there's some guys that are we think would be totally capable of that and there's some guys that's like where can we fit you better somewhere you know something like that but I think most people don't realize the opportunities that the trades have and as more people aren't going into the trades it's driving that cost up it's driving the cost or I it's driving how much these guys are making and what they can demand to make um so for sure it's an amazing living yeah well I I just had Dan maddingley of NCW on he he was on um ear this week good dude and they're right they're in the staff thing of you know more they he call them Hammer swingers yeah they're just down the street from us right yeah and um he talked about you want to know where there's a need like look talk to your friends college graduates out there that are listening talk to your friends how many of them know how to do anything with their drains with their toilets with their like there is a need because no one knows how to do anything with it your uh HVAC all these different pieces well you have a guy for everything now a guy that cuts your lawn you get your groceries deliver liage you have somebody who does your plumbing I mean there's a person to do everything for someone yeah well it's the foundation for the business upstairs neighbor surf yeah is people trying to find people that are capable of doing the work done that they need on their home yeah exactly being reputable locally own supporting your community all the it's it's basically just like the tech platform of Sullivans right like if you think like that mindset of it all runs through your local community like it makes a ton of sense there shout out to Dan and the team at neighbor serve U but I was just thinking through this right it's like oh I don't know I don't know if I want to go be a plumber I don't know if I want to go work on hbac who does it it's such a rare job now and with if you think of like supply and demand right if it's rare that means people are going to be willing to pay a decent chunk for it and you can 22 years old making a 100 Grand and your own truck to take home like yeah with no with no debt and that is the part that I think is really difficult now I look back and I'm very proud of everything we've accomplished and what we've done but there was absolutely a Time when all your friends are going to college and they're coming back for Christmas breaks and you're saying um I'm in plumbing school and I'm working at a you you almost don't even want to you just make up a story about something you're doing because there there's a feeling of a failure there and so how do you to your question how do you change that narrative for young kids to feel like you are actually being really successful right now rather than and did you guys do like a highlight reel video get Instagram real I think I sent one to Stephanie where it was like I saw a construction company and it looked like a football walkout highlight tape where it was like Hammer swing and this and that and the other I don't know we need do that where are you it was hyping up together and it's like imagine like in the morning sun's coming up and like it's like these construction guys in a hard hack walking to their job site love s like I was like hyped up I want to be a plumber I want to be a construction work I think it's two things one I think that the plumbing industry and just the way people talk from generation to generation didn't serve the trades businesses well they would say things like you can make a good living which is very vague and Brad and I made a decision a long time ago that we would just share the real numbers because when somebody says at 23 you can be making $100,000 a year that is fundamentally different than saying at 23 you can have a pretty nice career yeah and you don't have to drink Dr Pepper Mountain Dew and smoke cigarettes the whole time you know you can live a really healthy lifestyle and that's where the Persona was that trades were just dirty and unhealthy the trades is like it ain't much but it's honest work yeah exactly that's exactly as the dude knocks down 110 Grand a year right like it's so it's part of that is is being honest about what these jobs pay and the benefits they come with and then the other part that we've learned over time and probably more importantly is it's not the kids it's the parents that push kids away from the trades I think when you explain it to a 15-year-old boy or whatever a girl whomever that they don't have the same fear and the same sense of failure that their parents do so it's the it's the parents that are saying don't you need to go pursue this college degree and it's like to what end this person doesn't like School they've never liked school they don't get good grades why would you sign them up for $120,000 in 4 years more quick pause to tell you about one of my new favorite spots in Indianapolis Back N golf if you haven't been yet you're missing out this is the perfect way to get your swings in no matter what the weather's like outside this place isn't your average golf range it's a full-blown experience locally owned locally operated these guys are all about bringing the community together for a good time they've got climate controlled Bays great food live music and a bar that keeps the drinks flowing and if you're looking for a place to host an event birthday corporate outing bachelor party Back N is the spot they know how to throw down and make sure your crew has an unforgettable time so next time you're looking for a night out that's more than just another bar head to back Knight swing some clubs grab some drinks and support a business that's keeping it local check them out at back nf.
com or just pull up and see what all the hype's about tell them you heard about it on get in that conditioning over time right CU When You're 5 years old and you tell everyone you want to be a trash man your mom and dad say oh that's so cute and then when you're 15 you're like I want to be a Trasher and they're like you need to have more ambition right uh was that hard for you guys when you you know like you go through and you're have to tell people yeah we're starting a plumbing company or we're working in plumbing like was there I don't know I want to say like shame but like embarrassment a little bit around that I would for me initially at first and then as soon as we started having success I think it became a point of Pride for both of us y that that was exactly Brad and I never leave the house without hope Plumbing stuff well winning solves everything right so like absolutely yeah so that's what it was I think that's like almost enlightening that to for thinking back it's I think we both just wanted to win in this space and that's where the drive came from I love it when I can find ties so it's like to social media and like the business when I started putting out videos no one watched them they were terrible my friends would make fun of me they're like oh dude it's so cringey like why are you talking about hidden gems and then you get a video that does 250,000 views and now all a sudden people are like giving me free experiences I'm like hey you guys want to go to a Pacers game you want to go to a Colts game dude it's so like let me hold your camera while you make this video like it's so cool I like yeah gentlemen I'm talking to you so but winning saws everything it really does I so yes I had a huge chip on my shoulder and sometimes I don't know if I still have that or if I'm losing that or if it's changing or what but there was a number of years that I kept what people have said to me even in passing or what a teacher might have said or a a friend's parent or whatever it was like that Michael Jordan like kill list like make take a note and never forget what that was no I'm I'm with got a list for sure think if you're competitive this is the thing in Indiana there's not that many bad people I would say like there's a lot of really there's not a lot of enemies like yes there's you know the outliers here and there sure but like building up this Mantra in your head of like I'm competing against this thing like the big I'm competing against Big Plumbing like we're taking down we're taking down the man of Big Plumbing it's like I don't know I think having that is motivating and Powerful I mean that's definitely one of the places where Brad and I aligned winning was the option period and it could be it could have been selling Forks or whatever it could have been anything and you learn winning is in a lot of different things it's not just a financial thing it is winning by supporting the community and winning by being able to spend time with your family and to go back to our employees and and the type of life you can have being a plumber is we are very big on a work life balance we don't force guys to work uh week we force them not to we back guys off all the time if we find out somebody's getting too much overtime it's like stop you're going to burn yourself out you're going to hate this in six months like don't don't do that to yourself be consistent the same thing you don't have to pack we're not cramming for a test here let's just keep so Ju Just again that was a big part too is just having people have that freedom also and experiencing that I love it well we've coming to the end of the show where I have some fun lightning round questions and different things that uh that we talk about to wrap it up so the first question is our younger years segment it's brought to you by by our friends at or Fellowship they're a great organization here in Indiana helping develop young Business Leaders across the state Jack what advice would you give to yourself at 22 years old find Brad and get busy as quickly as you can yeah okay so like you know start working towards your dream yeah just go yes I I would just simply say just start I don't think you're as far away from your goals whatever those are as people really think they are they think that the attaining whatever it is I would say just do it because uh and just go after yeah yeah but but just start because I think you're a lot closer to what you want to accomplish and what people realize they are I think it seems far in their head but if they start working hard and being consistent you'll get there that's great advice let's say there's a early career plumber service technician listening to this podcast or seeing this clip on Instagram what is a tip that that you would give them to help accelerate their career in a trades go speak to the people they work with and ask them that question go say to them how do I improve in this industry what can I do better where the parts that I'm missing I mean Brad early on came to when I was working in the office and said how do I get my own truck and I was like well this is what it would look like you would need to commit to doing these things and he was like okay I want to do that and then he had his own truck so it's go ask go Brad says all the time I love it closed mouth don't get fed like you got to speak up I want to know what what you want out of tell me the answers my lightning round answer would be to call Hope plumbing and come in and talk to us and then we'll uh we'll employ you and you can start working with us if they're listening to like an bus this podcast and they're like trying to get better boom call these guys and and that's like call us and we're happy to talk and I'm we're also happy just to chat through exactly what Jack said what what is it that you're aiming for hey maybe I know somebody over here that can do that for you or maybe we're the perfect fit but however back to what Colleen was saying before we started this the kid that has been with us for seven or eight years now was uh raking my leaves and he was working so hard and it was just as simple as hey man do you want to you know and started that conversation I think uh I actually just pulled me up to a quote that I saw from uh Martin Luther King Jr which was like talking about sweeping streets and it's like a street sweeper and if you're going to be a street stre street sweeper than be the best Dang Sweet street sweeper that the world's ever seen and like whatever the thing is like you're raking leaves like you about increasing your service area for luck yeah who would have thought you could just be the best leaf raker that would lead you to a 10-year career yeah you know like those little things matter you you know what it does to to touch on that point it does matter what you're doing day in day out people see you you never know who you're in front of somebody who worked for us for years was our waitress at Bob Evans she ended up being an account for us for a number of years but you know what she did she was so amazing as a waitress we literally said you want to come in and work with us our AT&T rep was killing it she worked for us for years and and and just like I said from patatu yeah just like Freddy Patu you you never know what these I mean this kid was just 18 years old busting his butt for hours and I'm like man this kid's got to work ethic like let's put this in a direction you know what I mean I love that I haven't heard someone talk about Bob and forever so glad me Brad and I have offered jobs to people in the car wash at fast food places dude out to restaurants all like hey you should come talk to us like you don't know who I am and you're Trea yeah like we could we could really do something you know you just seem like a great person and that's where we you know a lot of the hiring is character you know we can teach you plumbing and all these other things but if you have a great character that that's all that we need we can build it from there that's such great advice and especially in these tight-knit communities everyone comes on and talks about how you know Indianapolis you're only one call phone call away from everyone and it's like you're only one good interaction in to like away from your dream job 100% like or your next opportunity or your next piece of luck or your next this that or the other thing I love that this that gets me fired up you know like out at Bob Evans just like yeah you know you should come work for us yeah I tell I have a sophomore right now and I and I tell him all the time like hey man people remember you never know whose parent you might end up working for or needing a job from like be a good person do the right thing like I mean we're all high you know they're all high schoolers they'll mess up time and time again or whatever but uh being polite and people remember that stuff you never know when it's going to circle back and or who's watching you or what opportunities in the future are there any Plumbing horror stories that uh still stick with you to this day early on Jack and I were working in someone's basement um it was freezing outside it was like snowing and we had been working so like so many hours you you know without breaks and you're doing these things so fast you and and I cut a live pipe above the valve that I shut off rather than under it so so I just literally just not thinking done it a million times just cut open a live line in somebody's basement the sound is horrifying I knew exactly what had happened yeah you and then there's just water bouncing off the ceiling you and that's one of those times where you've got to kind of jump on the grenade and get the W like what do you do we got a valve and I got really wet and it was really cold and um you use a compression fitting yeah you had to compression yes you're fight and water spray all over just so that so that's not gross whereas I did dra clean drains for a long time and I'd have to like think about some I've had some really gross the nastiest thing in plumbing by far is a grease trrap everybody thinks it's a drain line but it's a grease trrap so grease trap in a so in a restaurant the dishwasher or whatever all of that grease flows through a drain line then it goes through a box basically that on one side of the Box there's like a I mean it's just an empty box and the grease goes down to the bottom and then the water goes up and flows up over the top because if you put grease out into the drains it'll you know solidify and then clog the drains so the grease traps need to be cleaned out depending on usage once a month or whatever and cleaning grease out of a grease trap is the Nast I mean it's cooked solidified animal fat that's six weeks old like it's disgusting there is nothing there is nothing more foul smelling than a trrap all right and then real quick Jack used to always clean drain lines without gloves on so he would have a snake everyone has seen these drained snakes with a long cable on it and he wouldn't wear gloves and it would it would make me insane back in the day sometimes he would uh maybe wipe his face and then there was it was had stuff to do man we were on the grind but uh I can't believe yeah so thank you for pointing that out yeah all right just so everyone knows I'll be fist bump at the end of this yeah yeah I think I shook his hand when he walked in here um okay these are the same three questions I ask everyone who sits in the chair Brad will start with you and we'll go to Jack but what's something the world needs to know about Indiana one to be honest the cost of living is extremely affordable we have a ton of awesome stuff to do I think we've done a great job developing the caramel's Fishers area down to you know Fountain Square and massav and all of that and so I think that's great I think the seasons here are phenomenal I think we have amazing Summers and springs and um while I don't like February and where we are right now in Indiana but uh but yeah I like even the first snow is fun though it's amazing I loved it yeah I went sledding this year with my kids for first time in a long time so it was a that I I think Indiana is a great place to raise a family and it's extremely affordable with plenty to do Jack what's some in the world needs to know about Indiana I think I think one of the things that people should know about Indiana is this concept of Midwestern or hoer Hospitality so I was just talking to a friend of mine about about this process and specifically about the efficacy about how effective it is to be hospitable and polite how meaningful that is at work and how it helps you and I think there's this conception this misconception that you need to be like tough and Gruff with people and always try to get the most out of them and beat them up on pricing or always posture like you're the tough guy and I I think that's a mistake and that's the conversation that we were having is that I think that by being hospitable and pleasant and slowing down a little bit and saying things like how was your day did you have a nice weekend like those are very meaningful and I think often times people around the country mistake that for a weakness of some kind and I think they've totally misread the situation that that place that that comes from a place of like comfort and confidence and kindness and what so he's an attorney that's a good one Jack thanks I've been thinking about it he's an attorney and I asked him like when you do these deals and you're doing these processes like which one's more effective and he's like oh Hospitality by far moves the needle more than the like tough guy posturing stuff yeah the who's your hospitality and that mindset taking that into everything that you do yeah uh Brad we're going to come back to you what is a Hidden Gem in Indiana his place is over on 30th in Shadeland right by Academy volleyball where my son plays and uh nobody knows that they have this amazing food there they have it's called his place and it's literally on 30th and it's like the only restaurant right there and they have amazing food they kind of have weird like Island hours like kind of might be closed certain times and but the food is unbelievable feel like if I gave some thought yeah I've never that's a gy I've never heard that one there you go if if you drive by it say you'll see it next time if you're I don't know why you're on 30th in Shadeland or what you're doing it's because it's kind of an industrial area right there it's not like a neighborhood it's it's where like acad it's right by where Academy is which is just an old Warehouse that's huge you know so um his place Eatery Chicken and Waffles barbecue and soul food yeah and it's like a you get a huge plate not at all as I was expecting yeah yeah it's really good it kind of gives me um Country Kitchen Vibes yeah yeah it's definitely like a country kitchen but that's definitely that that is for sure one nobody uh I don't think discusses very often oh the signature peach cobbler waffle and chicken sign up see his place eery established 2009 r and soul food yeah all right that's a gem I just I thought about that cuz I drive by it like four days a week right now for practices Jack what's a Hidden Gem in Indiana the Pete Dy golf course at French Lick is amazing it does not feel like you were in Indiana it feels like you're in like Southern Tennessee you're up on top of a mountain it's i' I've gone with a friend the last couple of Falls and played golf down there and actually the West Baden building is amazing as well just period the glass roof the whole the Dome is an it's an amazing building but the the Pete die golf course you get up to the top of that Hill there is no way you will feel like you're in Indiana and it's two hours from here it's gorgeous when you look off the back balcony or the back deck of the clubhouse it's crazy and it's just like Rolling Hills I did a video down there with them when they hosted the corn fairy tour and they host it for the next couple years too it's really cool um and it's just like how is this Indiana seems fake yes they were like telling me like you you don't you won't believe how pretty this is and I'm like yeah cool it's I'm sure it's going be more of a Tennessee type of and I got down there and I got like you know you're there you're around all this pretty stuff it's Southern Indiana it's great and then you drive like 9 minutes it's not even that far up this hill and you're just like where am I right now it's it's an amazing experience it's like there's not many times I I think Indiana is beautiful but there's not that many times where I'm like just driving I'm like in a sure and at the top of that golf course you're just like yeah it is it is that was a good one to yeah that's a really that's a really a great night U all right final question that I have here uh it's just for Jack because he's the philosopher in the room but what's a lesson or principle or practice from philosophy that you've applied to Plumbing the point that I was talking about earlier about not being so binary that it doesn't have to be this or that multiple things can exist at the same time it's it's not a question of do you have to support your community because it's good for your business or because you really want to it it can be both and and that's very much something that you learn through doing philosophy is that multiple sort of truths multiple things can exist at the same time is there a writer that influenced you with that I'm sure somebody has addressed this point somewhere specifically but I think it's just that process of doing philosophy where you're doing so much critical critical thinking and your problem solving that you realize like even this question itself is false like it sets up a false dichotomy but I don't have to pick a or b i it doesn't have to be philosophy or Plumbing it could be both that's right that I think that and it's CRA most of life can be that way yeah and I have you know I think we put out 99 episodes or something like that by now maybe 100 I hope this is your 100th episode I hope it is too that would be fun uh and I think that let's just release this for the 100 yeah we could probably we could probably potentially but it's so of it like this to that or Plumbing philosophy or this that and no one that has sat in this chair has ever said like well it doesn't have to be blank like why can't it be both why can't it support your community and be advantageous in marketing why can't it yeah like why can't it be cool and be a why can't you be with your family and run a business and make people happy and once you wrap your head around it it's so simple and it's like maybe it's a sliding scale right where it's like yeah of course not everything can exist it's not all Happ can't a square circle goes in waves right that was the philosophy bomb that I was looking for yeah well heck yeah uh gentlemen thank you so much for coming on sharing the journey 17 years of Hope Plumbing it's amazing uh again anyone that's in this in Indianapolis in general I know you guys are starting to like even broaden out and I think I was talking U with Stephanie and you guys are like doing more work up in like caramel and Westfield and places like that uh which which I think is awesome and it's cool to see you guys growing and thank you for being awesome members of the Indianapolis community and being supporters of so many great local events and Charities and nonprofits and I mean any a lot of things right it's uh it's awesome to have great community members like you around here thanks it's a tremendous privilege thank you for listening to this episode of get in if you like what you heard make sure you leave us a review wherever you listen to podcast this show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at sweetwater.
com if you want to behind the scenes look at everything we're doing across the state make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tac at Nate spangle thank you so much for listening and being part of what makes the hooer steak great we'll see you next time here on get in
