How to Improve Company Culture, Build Better Teams, and Level Up as a Leader with Heather Haas & Doug Allgood

from the crossroads of America in the Hoosier State of Indiana this is get in the podcast focused on the unfolding stories and extraordinary Innovations happening right now in the Heartland I'm joined with my co-host Christopher tofte CEO Elevate Ventures on the show today is Heather Haas president at advisor and Doug Allgood president and CEO at Black Ink I. T the naming of our core values translating those into behavioral terms not just values everybody's got values they all hang on the wall I'm talking about getting in a room everybody really understanding that those values are the pillars of your intentional culture and every leader has to carry that culture Heather Haas is the president and advisor a company focused on driving change through effective leadership and Doug Allgood is the president and CEO at Black Ink I. T an Innovative leader in managed technology services and in today's show we're going to cover effective leadership building an exceptional company culture attracting and retaining the best talent and I'm sure so much more but Heather Doug thank you both so much for being here thank you for having us yeah we are really excited to dive in and before we dive into all those topics I thought it might be helpful just to get a little bit of backstory on each of you and how you you came to be in the positions that you're at today obviously that's a lot of ground to cover and a lot in your career but I'm just curious what some of your earliest exposure to business was in your own career or even before you were working earliest memories of getting exposure to business to different companies different cultures I think I've probably have the most unusual path to getting here in that my early career I was a teacher and a principal so I started out in education which isn't really business but it's certainly an organization with humans who that you have to get doing things and producing some outcomes that was really the where I got started and became inspired to really help people reach their potential and understand what makes Kids Tick but then also became very focused on how to drive change within schools and got my Master's in educational leadership and then became very passionate about the idea of leading change and helping people move forward in productive ways I love that one of the most important occupations that exists yeah what grade did you teach I taught sixth grade yeah and then I was an assistant principal at an elementary school and through understanding some of my strengths and gifts and talents I started to realize maybe I could take some of this outside of public education and once I did I never looked back and to a great extent what we do at advise us still a lot of teaching and learning so it's very consistent with my roots I was going to ask what did you learn as a sixth grade teacher an assistant principal that you still use today in leading your team in advisor it's I think one of the biggest things that I learned in working with kids is that learning is a very social process and kids need to feel safe and connected in order to do good things at school and even outside of school and honestly when you're building culture when you're creating a team it's the same for adults people need to feel safe they need to feel connected and they need to understand why they're doing what they're doing a lot of teachers used to get frustrated with kids why do I have to learn this that's the best question anybody can ever ask why am I being asked to do this and if you can help people connect that to the broader business aims or you can help connect what you're asking people to do to a personal value that they have then everything becomes much easier a whole is easier to start with why I love that yeah I want to come back to that one here in a little bit okay cool I like that Doug how about you what was what were some of your earliest business and career memories it's exciting to be next to a teacher and a principal that's why we're all sitting down yeah got that I changed my major in college from computer science to Business Systems because I love the connection of business with technology it wasn't like it was just cool to me I really enjoyed learning various facets of business even as a foreign exchange student in Sweden family I worked with had a they both worked at Volvo and just understanding the manufacturing principles that Volvo was so enlightening to me that I went back with A Renewed Energy towards wanting to understand those techniques and that's as I took on more responsibility in my career at various positions it was always that business connection that helped me out and largely at Black Ink it's the same passion I love learning how each of the companies we work with and have that pleasure they do things right and how they make money and what struggles they have and how technology may be able to help them I love that intersection too how did you both meet how did Black Ink I.

T and advisor get connected oh my gosh years ago we met I think we brought you in to help with some strategic thinking or some strategic planning a ways back I'm not sure exactly what the connection was but then have been just in touch and in the same space over time and we've recently helped Doug and his team with some of that leadership and culture work I love that yeah absolutely and in fact we all need to seek out and get help from time to time and advise has been this great resource for us in developing leadership and what we call a cohort right we've got seven of our staff in this leadership cohort at advisor and it's been a phenomenal experience I had actually worked with Heather's team early on years ago even before I did the strategy work learning about predictive index and how that could be used in recruiting and understanding ourselves and the power of that tool and better discovering our the way we think and the way we might behave and act towards certain situations and so that has continued to be a strong part of what advisor does along with their team helping us kind of work through the Journey of what it means and what it feels like to be a leader and this cohort's just having a phenomenal time why do you think that in business we don't think about coaching and so in sports everybody has a coach and even these things we call goats have coaches yeah and they never go a year or a day without having a coach maybe a date Maybe no time passes without a coach why is that a an afterthought in business like why doesn't everybody have a coach especially the CEO or the leadership team yeah I think ego sometimes gets in the way we get out of college or we complete our masters or an advanced degree and then we start to progress through an organization and we think we're supposed to have all the answers and we always talk a lot with our clients about leaders don't have the best answers they ask the best questions leading isn't about telling it's about serving so it's the juxtaposition often it's the opposite the coaching it is a fascinating Dynamic most leaders that we work with are tragically and I that's a strong word but I would say tragically underskilled and undersupported for what they're being asked to do with people who are relying on them to provide Direction and guidance and they're extremely lonely oh a Surgeon General I don't know if you saw it just came out saying there's an epidemic of loneliness they use that word in this country and when organizations were filled with people you have all these lonely individuals but I would say leaders even more so are lonely and struggling with oh my gosh I don't know what I'm doing and instead of naming it and then seeing what happens when everybody chimes in I don't either how about we figure this out or get a coach and allow those leaders think they're the only ones and oh my gosh I don't want to say anything because I'm the only one that feels this way I'm the only one that has these thoughts and I'm a loser and I'm an idiot and I don't want to be discovered that I'm a fraud it's like a lot of these thoughts that go through leaders Minds yeah and they don't realize it's going through everybody's minds and the most in the most endearing or something you can do to really solder connections between people is be vulnerable like that Doug said you said sometimes we have to ask for help and when we actually say that other people their guard starts to come 100 and it just creates this amazing culture of reality and safety and openness yeah amazing quick break from our normal programming I have Erica schweyer CEO from Elevate Ventures here in the studio today Erica thanks for being here yeah thanks for having me and you're going to tell us a little bit about this rally Innovation conference that's coming up yep so it's the largest cross-sector Innovation conference in the world we're going to feature six Innovation Studios so think hard tech software Sports Tech Ag and food Healthcare and Entrepreneurship is going to kind of be our catch-all I love that so tell me what is who's it for yeah it's for innovators entrepreneurs investors honestly anybody probably listening to this podcast it's going to be a multi-day thing that's multi-day in downtown Indianapolis yep people coming in from all over the country and maybe even all over the world to be here that's our hope yep and the dates are actually August 29th through the 31st perfect and if people want to find out more information about speakers tickets things like that where can they go yeah so they just go to rallyinnovation.

com and sign up for communications they can also get their tickets I'll love it you heard it here rallyinnovation. com we'll see you there we all most of us I think are first sort of exposure to leadership is being led by others I'm curious if either of you had leaders that for you made a big impact and what may be about their leadership style made an impact yeah so I had a manager at Beringer Manheim which was Roche and that particular individual not only invested in me as a person and got to know me as a person but also got to coach into my life and that's really where this first notion of coaching as a leadership style instead of supervising came to mind it's between Frank Douglas and I don't know I've got probably a dozen that I can rattle off that said these are things that you need to think about as you interact with others and going and seeking help and to me that's where this whole notion of community we talk about Community to me Community as I think about the other leaders that I know that I meet with on a regular basis that are free to talk with me about Doug have you thought about this if you thought about that and then helping my team begin to plug into the community the same way right I've got a young guy who's running marketing and have you thought about meeting with other marketing folks and there are similar position that you're in and you guys get together and form a group to have that authentic discussion and to be vulnerable and to talk through what you're doing and then bringing in enlightened folks from time to time that have a little bit more experience but to me it's having that community of people that you can rest and talk with and feel vulnerable with to me that that becomes so important it's awesome that you get to see that kind of modeled in early leaders for you and now you get to pass that on that first person that was Frank Douglas yeah so Frank if you're listening Doug wants to give you a big fat thank you shout out to Frank so you mentioned that on purpose because sometimes we forget to go tell those for made massive differences in our lives they don't realize they made a massive difference in our lives and taking that one moment to grab a drink grab dinner make a phone call to say thank you is is if like just the power of one absolutely so important do you have a leader Heather that I have several I think I'm blessed to say that in in education in my early career I had some great examples of leadership one that comes to mind Rich Reasoner so thank you Rich racer if you're listening he was an assistant principal and I had Hall Duty with Rich and what that means and so I taught sixth grade which at that time the school was 678 so Call of Duty men I had to get there early and stay late while the kids were walking around the Lockers in the hallway so I had a lot of time with Rich and he just used to talk to me about the importance of getting to know students and I watched him walk around and joke with kids and talk with kids and just interact and so I guess the headline on that management by walking around I think would be the official management term for what he was really good at but I watched it and when you invest in building relationships with people then when a kid would get in trouble or something would happen he had that relationship and it made whatever needed to happen next and often he was able to help a kid before it got to be a big disciplinary thing because that relationship was there so that was a great example and then when I joined advisor back in 2004 I joined as a trainer so I didn't I didn't know I was going to end up in the president chair when I joined the company me and Bob Wilson owner and founder of advisor was an incredible leader for me in that he recognized that he needed to give me Runway to just try things and figure things out on my own and make mistakes and then seek him out for the coaching after I made the mistake rather than micromanage and he understood my predictive index of course so he knew that I was very driven and independent someone who would learn by doing versus learn best by someone telling me how to do it and that was absolutely transformative for me having that space and that kind of encouragement really it allowed me to flourish back to that student in the hallway analogy so how has kovid changed leadership where it's harder to have those in-person interactions building relationships what thoughts do you all have about that oh man there's a great hbr article called I think it's called managers can't do it all but the basis of the article is essentially you have all these managers out there who before coveted they were killing it I'm doing great my team's hitting their goals I feel good at my job covet happens the world is disrupted life is disrupted we come back and everything's different right now it's like I'm managing a hybrid team and I don't really know how to do that and now I have more on my plate and things are all misaligned Etc and so the stress of it and the pressure to perform it's even greater so to your point of about not being able to have those connections one of the things we're hearing most frequently is help us rekindle our culture and genuine Connection in a hybrid and still remote work environment because I can't do the walking around so that's a huge Challenge and there are definitely tips and ways to do that but I'll let Doug chime in here too well fortunately I had the opportunity to work for a couple global companies in those various roles most of my staff in both organizations were all outside the United States and the cultures were all different it's fun to talk about the French and the German and all these different cultures right Indian and so forth but as I went through the whole process our training was around how do you intentionally connect and so to me it's no different than with covet even now you've got to set up some intentional time to get to know the people in your team and to create moments where you know hey we're just going to talk about life yeah and we're going to try to understand then Toph you're so good at this asking these thoughtful questions follow-up questions things that allow you to really understand the person and get to know them and that's the way we had to interact and so then when you would have meetings Global meetings you'd get together it just helped accelerate that relationship but at the end of the day you had to be intentional with setting up time to talk and I still think that's true now with our teams yeah we call that connection before content that's one of the skills that we're teaching leaders is that's not wasted time shooting the breeze a little bit before a meeting starts or coming up with a thoughtful question to do a quick go around hey what's on your bucket list this summer real quick I'd like to hear from everybody once you build that muscle of doing that even if you're on Zoom you'd be amazed like Doug said how you start to look forward to it have you ever worked with leaders that are on the other end of the spectrum maybe a little bit more of the Michael Scott from the office who's who is all management by walking around and all trying to build make friends out of their team yeah we have a we have two by two Matrix that we talk about it's got connection on one of the axis and competence on the other and so yes you have leaders that fall into these four quadrants some leaders are really gifted at connecting and shooting the breeze and their likability is off the chart but perhaps less competent at delivering results doing their job maybe they don't have the technical skills so for those leaders we have affection for them but we don't really respect them because they can't coach us if they're not competent sometimes you have the reverse you have highly technically competent leaders but really low on their ability to connect with others we would respect them but potentially we might not follow them because we're not sure that they even know us let alone care about us so we're always trying to help leaders build both you've got to learn the skills for how to be emotionally present and connect with people build relationships as well as build your technical capability because that's that overlap there is where you have the greatest capacity to coach people successfully because if you're going to coach me and I'm going to trust you I have to believe that you have my back and that you know me as a human and I have to trust that you know your stuff that's a helpful framework yeah I'm like this is I'm getting so much value here right now how do you so you mentioned I always forget all the personality tests one thing I've never been good at is and I've played around those tests before and I've looked at them and with different teams Etc I always forget like so like I see Heather tomorrow morning I'm like what was she now am I supposed to what are some what are techniques or things that you can do that you've you that you teacher that you've deployed that help you keep it front of Mind how you best interact with that different personality for me a lot of this has come from advisor right but for me personally I have to remember who I am and it starts there because I would be we actually have a very similar chart yeah but results and behaviors Matrix right four quadrants right you want to be in the leader quadrant but that behavior right and and for me for me that quadrant that I would be in would be he gets stuff done yeah a lot of dead bodies along the way because I'm so focused so driven and in fact one of those profiles said would would sell his own mother and I remember a lot remember looking at my team going is that really true and they're like so that that's self-awareness I mean like man that's just not who I want to be and that's self-awareness and then you have that self-awareness so then it's I could begin to tell what others are right through the training and all this you begin to get a feeling but the end of the day what I have to remember most is when am I my best and what are the things I have to be aware of and my self-awareness about how I choose right because I do care about people so how do I choose to do things a little bit different and what are techniques that I can employ in my own style that help me keep that front and center is there are there any examples that come to mind over the last year you're like you know what I've started doing X and that has been super helpful starting meetings and my interactions with others about checking in to see who they are first because I can be I can do my drive into work man I got all these things this is so exciting we're going to do this we're going to do this and if somebody's come into the office us and just had a flat tire got pulled over or something they're just not gonna that's just not gonna resonate so that that suggestion that Heather had is what I've actually tried to deploy more is to get a check in where are we at and I get ideas from others right somebody said to me the other day one of their they start off some of their calls and one of them was hey when you chat when you shower do you intentionally wash your feet or do you just let the suds fall over right that's good you just go around it's just create a way almost like an icebreaker create a way to get a connection and then see where people are and checking in that's what I have to do for the record I'm a foot washer yeah I am too feel like we all have a great question name it I can relate to that so much I'm very much okay it's time for a stand up stand up starts with what would we do last time and if I don't see anyone else taking the lead then I lead by example by doing that and it's hard to know those times where it's okay is this the time to be efficient yeah and communicating like what got done and What needs to get done or is this a time and kind of almost like reading the room which is so much harder in a virtual it is requirement and I think you can be reactive to reading the room but another really important skill for a leader is you don't always sometimes there isn't time to go around and connect with people we have a really important or urgent matter that has to be dealt with and but often what leaders forget to do is be explicit about naming what we're about to do so to begin a meeting where you usually have an icebreaker or you have a little fun to get going to say hey team today we've got something really serious we've got to talk about I'm actually going to skip the Icebreaker and we're going to get right down to business okay now people know where they are and that's very subtle but now people can adjust and they're ready to receive whatever it is usually it's the unpredictability of a Leader's behavior that causes people to be wary or step back it's oh I don't know what he's gonna do or say today or oh what mood is she in you can learn to be more explicit about your intentions about your expectations and just communicate that's great advice and then people are like oh okay I know what we're doing that's perfect I love that I do too do you have any other tips for leading in a hybrid work environment you mentioned earlier that's something that you're seeing a lot of leaders struggle with in the hybrid work world today what are some of the top tips that you've given consistently or your team has given consistently to leaders one of the most important things of leading in a hybrid work environment is clarity about work objectives if you're not going to be seeing people around the office and in the hallway where you can just like hey quick thing Matt I just wanted to double check like those little round backs and confirmations are tougher yeah you can slack but being super clear about what is the work and how do we both know if it's being done effectively or well I think is very important we can't assume people know what success looks like in the role and I think the other tip is you've got to ratchet up the frequency and the quality of your one-on-ones in a hybrid and Doug I'm sure you can speak to this as well but you've got even if it's 15 minutes one-on-ones take a ton of time I was guilty this week of canceling one myself sometimes you have to but they're so important because if you're doing the one-on-one then when you're seeing that person in their little Zoom tile on on your laptop screen you've got more of the contacts it's bigger than the box but if all you're ever doing is hopping on to those Zoom meetings with those little tiles you're not doing the one-on-one conversations you're going to be really limited I think in your ability to understand people's situations and to give feedback and to coach that's great advice yeah we do these one-on-ones as well so every person that's in a role that's in a kind of a coaching role if you will does the one-on-ones and we've tried to go like every other week and we've tried and it's no we've got to have that and sometimes it's 15 minutes sometimes it's 30 minutes but the check-in that's where that personal connection can come into play so that when you do have the larger meetings where you've got to get everybody together you can get down to business because you you feel like I at least know what's going on in the lives of my team what things they're dealing with but at the same time that's where and they've got to prepare the agenda right I don't prepare the agenda so they come with the agenda we know what we're going to go through and they know that they got to come with a so we're going to do a little check-in you doing okay but part of that check-in is where you at on on your goals right are you I love those goals and where you've been clear about the performance expectations you can flip the script like Doug was just describing and have the empowerment yeah it's when the employee isn't crystal clear that the manager has to be leading it and directing it because the employee has not been empowered to take personal accountability for those results and drive it I love all of these tips for people who are in an active leadership position it does seem to me talking to a lot of 20-somethings right out of college almost everyone wants to be on a leadership path someday what can someone in their early career do today to help prepare themselves and maybe even show to their manager that they have leadership potential I get asked this a lot I think there are three things that are really important for early career people I think the first thing is building your network your relationships within your organization also relationships outside your organization like Doug was describing earlier because a lot of these younger folks that are entering the work environment even some of the best and brightest that I've had the opportunity to interact with they are coming in with different strengths and challenges than some of the other Generations in the workforce and I think some of those folks have a real opportunity to grow that relational connecting communicating in a business context kind of way so that's huge put yourself out there set coffee set meetings ask people think in your organization who do I admire who impresses me for whatever reason and then take the initiative like hey Matt I'd love to grab coffee with you you you're someone that I've admired in the organization and I would just love to hear more about your journey so that all falls into the connecting bucket I think the second thing that's really critical for early career people is get results a lot of times people are saying why did I why didn't I or I want to and then can I have and I want the best way to lay down the groundwork to make more money or get promoted or move teams or whatever you want to do get results and then don't be shy about making sure the right people know about those results not in a braggadocious kind of way but in a hey I just completed this and I'd love to sit down Toph and just talk through this with you because I'm really proud of it wouldn't you be delighted for a young person in your company to say that people that bring Solutions absolutely this is what I think it might be wrong right and it might not get accepted or whatever or it might be the greatest thing since sliced bread bring in those Solutions and not in a braggadocious way you will Skyrocket you will absolutely will and then the third thing I think for early career people is focus on learning prioritize your own Learning and Development which is why communities like Powder Keg are so important where you can get young people connected they have access especially in Indiana you have more access to really powerful High achieving entrepreneurs and people than any of these other major cities so get out there and start learning from people in informal ways but also informal ways don't I guess what I'm saying is don't always rely on your organization to orchestrate and lay out the learning path for you some of you may be blessed to be in an organization like that most of you are not yeah that's all very actionable I love that anything you would add Doug those points are perfect but I would elaborate a little bit on the fact that not everybody's going to get a trophy so we're looking at changing yeah we're changing there that we're coming into an environment where not everybody's going to get a blue ribbon and everybody's going to get the trophy and what are the things that you need to do and action really is the key word here take action on those things and you look at it and you're like in education we're gonna we're gonna hand you the curriculum we're gonna hand you the syllabus and you got to do this you got to do this some of this stuff's gray right and the people that do the best are those that's great right that begin to grab on to okay what can I do asking thoughtful questions getting out there and doing things and I would second what powder cake is doing in terms of creating Community is so powerful for that group to be able to come together and see others and I think one of my kids early on we went to a basketball camp right at the end of Camp they gave out these different awards that weren't always about who got the most baskets and then going forward every other Camp season those kids picked up on hey there's going to be some things so the things I do matter and I think seeing others get rewarded that pick up on what did they do to get rewarded they they did these things right they stepped out and achieved results got things done and contributed and they interacted and I think that's what's going to move the needle for them how about visualization and both for folks coming up they're just getting started their careers or for leaders talk a little about how you think about visualization and I won't go on the goal setting of Yoga Nidra but talk a little bit about that how important is it for people to actually take a moment and relax and focus and really visualize their path or what success looks like or what they're trying to achieve any thoughts around that I think it's tremendously important I used to a little quick teaching aside I used to do this Career Unit with my sixth graders and the way and it started with they had to write a personal mission statement and so I would teach them what is a mission statement but I started the unit with a quote on the board from Alice in Wonderland and I'm going to botch it all up here because I'm trying to recall it on the fly but Alice is lost in the woods and she comes upon the Cheshire Cat and she looks at the cat and she says which way do I go from here and a cat looks at her and says I don't know it depends where are you trying to get to and she said I don't know and the cat says then it doesn't matter which way you go oh I love that and I so I used to use yeah so I would use that though with kids even at that age and start to say you have to be able to visualize in your mind's eye whatever your situation or circumstance is in your family or your gifts or your talents or whatever it is you have to be able to think about where might I want to go and then imagine yourself traveling that path or becoming that basketball player or whatever the case may be I think it's super powerful and then setting the goals or then breaking that up what are the steps between here and there but you'd be surprised some people don't naturally think that way some of us are naturally very goal oriented we're naturally strategic and planners we begin with the end in mind a lot of even really talented leaders don't naturally think that way so you have to help them realize the path there and the you've got to think it before you can do it or be it I think yeah Doug what are some of the lessons you've learned in goal setting and visualization as you've scaled Black Ink I.

T we do have a career action plan that we do with each of our employees that helps but I really think Heather's teaching background to me this is that word picture is so powerful and so to me that is those moments where we are teaching we are trying to set up intentional things right provide word pictures Heather's got a bunch of them right she even talks about interviewing seeing somebody in a they're in a box right and so how do you begin to Poke Balls into that box to visualize or to see who that candidate is right and so I think those word pictures that you come up with and you hear are the things that we have to talk about in our organizations and we have to spend time going through that because that's how people are going to learn and I some some of us come from homes where Mom and Dad were talking about these business things on the kitchen table not all of the people in our lives the humans in our lives that we come aren't going to have those opportunities which is why Providence Cristo Ray is so powerful putting these kids in in our environment and how do we intentionally engage with them this is why to me I love this community aspect and then how we engage and then attend things like power cake events when Toth speaking or others especially tough speaking yes especially and then like I said I think we reaching out to companies like advisa has been helpful for us because again Heather's got a great group of coaches that are helping coach and using these word pictures and then they come back with those work pictures and then can explain it to somebody else and that's what to me is helping our organization scale and grow I love that yeah and I would just add the connectivity of the metaphors or the word pictures that's brain science when you understand how the human brain learns I mentioned at the top of this there's an element of social learning yes and our brains are wired to create connection and and patterns and Link things so that when you can use another modality rather than just telling someone something with a string of words and you can like Doug said use a word picture or some kind of metaphor that might connect with them in a different way that's typically what sticks I love that and if one thank you both for the kind words about Powder Keg I respect you both so much as leaders and the teams that you have built and I've watched from afar as you've both grown your teams I'm curious to learn a little bit of the secret sauce what is it about the way you've approached your own leadership and then even witnessed in other companies that they're doing to attract and retain the best talent and build great companies when I had the opportunity when the owner and founder of advisa approached me and said I don't want to run this day to day anymore I think you're the person you have a vision I had to do some soul searching my husband and I were both working at the time we had two kids we wanted a third I knew what it was going to take to grow the company in the way that I wanted to all that is to say I kind of in the cold light of dawn where I was journaling really thinking about am I going to take this on can I do first of all can I even do this do I want to do this and what am I going to sacrifice to do this what I came down to was I have to work with people that I like respect can learn from and care about and I gotta get rid of the people that don't meet that criteria if I'm going to do this I'm going to be a culture first leader I'm going to create the kind of company that when my kids say to me mom why can't why weren't you at my field trip or why were you home late tonight or why are you so stressed out any of those things anyone was running an organization feels those things from time to Sun from time to time that I could look them in the eye and say because I'm doing really cool things at work and I'm changing companies and changing lives with what we do and sometimes that means I might not be at every field trip but I'm doing it with really wonderful people and we're doing incredible work for our clients and that's worth it and so for me articulating our culture into and it's it's funny because it's exactly what we're selling and doing for clients now but the naming of our core values translating those into behavioral terms not just values everybody's got values they all hang on the wall I'm talking about like getting in a room everybody really understanding that those values are the pillars of your intentional culture and every leader has to carry that culture personify those values coach them recognize them and hold people accountable to them and once you do that and assuming you're hiring people with the technical capabilities and all the other things I mean your organization is going to flourish because people feel connected to that heartbeat to that corporate character that you've created and it's magnetic and to to the challenge everyone's facing I can't find people and I'm losing people focus on building that culture in a very authentic way and prioritize it and you'll be amazed how the people who align with that will stick yeah you can't serve your customer if you don't serve each other that's right that's right I love the word magnetic because it it is what's going to attract the right person but just like a magnet it's also going to repel correct the person that's not gonna Thrive there that's why you should never hold back or be bashful about talking about your values because if you've done the hard work like Doug and his team has to get to those two or three or five or whatever lead with those 100 because job description doesn't matter no it's not a culture fit that's right yeah yeah lead with those values and then people are gonna latch on to that or they're gonna be like no yeah I'm not interested in a company that's all about teamwork or whatever Doug what else have you learned in building that magnetic culture Black Ink idea has won so many Powder Keg the company culture Awards other awards for best employer no we've been so blessed with that but one of the things that Heather's talking about is those values can't be wall art that's the word that advisor would use is you don't want these to be wall art that you've got to live them and so for me I also think that as Leaders we have to have a strong why because it it's hard yeah it's really hard we gave this leadership cohort an assignment recently right as a case study to solve some communication issues internally and they're still struggling with it and that's really was the intent one is to get them to work together learn how to storm norm and form but as well as to see some of these things are hard and so I think you have to have a really strong why as to why you're going to do it and why you're going to make these sacrifices and then for me personally some of this was around this whole notion of a legacy Toph was telling us before we got on here about some life events that he had been through lately and so you kind of look at those things and you say what am I about right and if I want to leave a legacy really ultimately the Legacy I'm going to live is the impact I'm going to have on the people that I work with because I'm spending a lot of time with them let's face it and so to me then it's this opportunity of how do I speak into their life in a way and get to know them in a way that even if they're only in the company a couple years because some of these young folks that we bring in they're doing great things and although we want to believe we're going to have ways for them to grow and stay in the company forever and that's certainly what I care about right but the reality is they're going to go do other things and what I want them to do is to do great things and look back on that experience and say that experience helped Propel me right and how do we be about propelling Future Leaders in our community future great company entrepreneurs future people who are just going to do a great job at teaching or whatever whatever path they end up on and that's to me the part that I think we can have a huge impact on and that's my personal why that kind of keeps me engaged in investing in the lives of these of the people that were gifted to have what's your personal life of my personal way but that keeps you going with even though today was your best day with lb you said personal well personal why I okay let's do both I don't know if I can say this without getting emotional my personal album say it faster I get out of my system I want my son to grow up someday and say that I was his biggest Mentor okay sure you did it the Y for Elevate is we want Indiana to be the Innovation Capital world that's it and that even right there that he could rattle both of those things off that's so inspiring nobody can listen to to to a leader who's genuine and honest about that and not be like that's fantastic I want to be attached to someone who's that clear about who they are and why they're doing what they're doing which sometimes when we bring leaders together for these year-long Academy Journeys sometimes we've occasionally had leaders who get in the beginning and they're like why are you making us do this leadership-wise stuff what what can we just get to the meaning yeah we're spending our the dogs right no but I've been challenged before even by a CEO for example who has sent his senior team and he's hey they told me the first day all you guys did was talk about strengths and self-awareness and like you'll go around and share about everybody's why and the reason that you do that is because our strength as leaders and as humans comes from knowing who we are and being clear about our own values and aspirations if you can't master that you can't lead people yeah people aren't going to follow someone who's uncertain or inconsistent in their messaging or in the direction of what they're doing or in any of those kind of things and that is not to say a lot of people in fact I just read a great or listened to a great podcast about let's stop telling people to find their passion so I'm not trying to say that everybody is clear about that out of the gate what I am saying is we have to create opportunities for people to spend some time thinking about it and it can change right it can totally change and whatever by doing different things yeah and by putting yourself in community with different people who you can observe how Doug's doing it and he can think about what I'm doing you don't have to have it all figured out but you do need to start to try to discover who you really are and what really matters to you it's hard to connect and relate to other people if you're not connected or related to yourself yes that's right yeah I think that's great insight and the things are going to change before you have kids that's one thing I got five of them yeah obviously investing there it's going to have a huge return yeah I was so jealous I wish I had five I love it I get five graduations and now they get one that's not fair yeah are you ready to transform your brand with award-winning video content that captures your vision and connects with your audience check out Alchemy the experts at building your brand using video from story driven social media Snippets that leave a lasting impression to compelling full-length documentaries they have got the expertise to take your brand to the next level Alchemy is actually our video partner here on get in and they do amazing work all the videos across social across YouTube all that is done by Alchemy and they're an amazing partner to work with reach out to me Nate Powder Keg or check out alchemyfilmco.

com to get connected with Alden and his team they will take care of all of your video needs I could talk about this for another five hours we joked earlier about this being a six hour podcast but we're coming up to the end of our time it's time for one of our favorite parts of the podcast which is the lightning round tofu would you like to lead the lightning round sure absolutely I would love to and we're going to do we're gonna go do one one one one one one yeah I think one one one okay so it's three questions rapid fire first thing that comes to your mind no wrong answers okay yeah it's quick and easy all right let's start off with Heather are you ready all right outside of the amazing entrepreneurial ecosystem what is Indiana known for hospitality is your hospitality I love it great answer all right Doug outside of the amazing entrepreneurial ecosystem what is Indiana known for our campgrounds I like it it's good I've been to several of them yeah yeah I've got my state park pass it's like one of the three cards I carry in my wallet oh there it is that's impressive was it there's several people I've seen that have these goals to go hit every state park every National Park it's so awesome I know right yeah totally so amazing all right question number two what is a Hidden Gem in Indiana oh you already said you said campgrounds but I think there are definitely some Hidden Gem Parks all over even in I live in Carmel even the park system in Carmel is amazing there's a really cool Campground in Noblesville where my father-in-law always takes our kids in his VW bus but nearby there's this super cool archery range where you can there's just all kinds of even in these smaller communities if you're willing to get out of the city and just go out a little bit I think you'll find lots of Nature and lots of cool active things to do outdoors even though we don't have Ocean or mountains did you know that the largest Municipal Park in the country is right here in Indianapolis I did not Central Park what is it remember I thought it was second to Central Park I think it's bigger I don't know somebody told us that on this podcast oh I'll take their word for it yeah trust but verify third oh third biggest oh third we just don't have it but it is bigger than Central Park right yes yes okay number three but bigger than Central Park yeah Doug what is a Hidden Gem in Indiana I love the cicp I love this notion that we've got a group that has biosciences technology Ag and I think of those three in particular right I see all the work that you're doing right now tof with ag and knowing that I got farming families right and just seeing what we're doing there and it's this is what's changing the world right to me the impact that we can have in Indiana in those areas I just I love it that we've made that intentional investment one of my favorite I just got chills again one of my favorite things that Mitch Frazier says is it's the only industry that touches every person every day on the planet oh that's great and I'm like wow that's amazing because it's true all right here we go the third and final lightning round question Heather who is someone that we need to keep on our radar someone who is doing big things oh gosh I think there are so many people doing big things in Indiana I would point to any of the startups and entrepreneurs that you guys have in the community who are launching businesses and getting it all figured out and doing the hard work every day I don't know that I can name any names but I think anybody who gets in the arena and is willing to put their time put their money and take the risks those are the people you want to watch because they're going to change the world great answer all right Doug you're going to round it out who is someone that we need to keep on our radar someone who is doing big things Don lamb just recently took over the AG speaking of AG right just recently took over director of Agriculture he's a farmer in Indiana right understands what farming really means and he talked to me about the other day just the investment that we make in that industry right and the number of jobs that creates and the fact that's something that's feeding the world it's just powerful but I see the things that he's wanting to do Under the current Administration and things to drive there it's gonna It's Gonna Change it's going to create life change that's exciting that's the first first we've gotten that one but that sounds like something else we need to have on our podcast yep thank you both so much for taking time and sharing a little bit of your story and all of your wisdom I would love to continue the conversation another time on a future episode and for those who want to learn more about advisor and black ink I.

T we'll link all that up in the show notes and make sure we have links to your social profiles and hopefully people get a little bit more connected and get in on the awesome things that you're both doing thank you this has been a blast thanks a lot yeah thank you this has been get in a powder kick production in partnership with Elevate Ventures and we want to hear from you if you have suggestions for a guest or a segment reach out to Matt or Nate on LinkedIn or on email to discover top tier tech companies outside of Silicon Valley in hubs like Indiana check out our newsletter at powderkeg. com newsletter and to apply for membership to the powder cake executive Community Check out powdercake. com premium we'll catch you next time and next week as we continue to help the world get in since you just listened to this podcast you might be thinking about starting one for your company lucky for you our partners over at casted have you covered cassid is the first and only podcast in video marketing platform made specifically for B2B Brands I love this about them the platform makes it possible to publish Syndicate amplify and measure the value of your podcast and video content in fact we use it for our podcast here at Powder Keg and if you're a startup you should listen up because cassid for startups is definitely for you they are offering exclusive deep discounts of up to 82 percent off retail price for qualifying startups connect with casted at casted.

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