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Stop. Yeah. This builder, he's a 17-year-old kid doing Gam-Gam a favor. You know what kid? You're hired, you know, at the end of the project, we're capturing exactly what is going to create those special moments for our clients. Yeah. Like any true, great entrepreneur drops out to chase the dream. Exactly. Exactly. Let's go. Just filtering that light. Seeing green in the center of your house is a feeling that people don't get to have. What's capable of being built. How do you walk someone through that design process? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between. This is Get IN, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spanel, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Hey everyone. Before we get into today's episode, let's talk about an insurance company that I use and believe in Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance. As someone who's experienced and shared all that our great state has to offer. I've learned that having an insurance carrier who truly understands Indiana makes all the difference. As a customer myself, I can tell you that I have confidence in my insurance and don't feel like I have to go it alone. What makes Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance special? Since they have offices in every Indiana County, your local agent is only a call or a text away. They know our communities and what makes them unique. They also help you find coverage customized for whatever stage of life you're in. Whether you're just starting out, growing your family, planning for retirement, from auto, renters, home life, business, and farm, they've got it all. Now do yourself a favor and connect with a dedicated Indiana Farm Bureau insurance agent near you. Just visit INFB.com to get connected to a local agent. Tell them Nate and the team at Get Indiana sent you. Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance. Let's insurance together. Now let's get into this episode of Get IN. My guests today are Abbey and A.J. Robertson, and they are husband-and-wife co-founders of aaNovo, a full-service custom residential design-build firm right here in Indianapolis. Now, A.J. began his career as a finish carpenter before leading residential and commercial construction projects, and Abbey serves as principal designer guiding each project's interiors and exteriors to create timeless functional homes that reflect the people who live in them. I'm really excited to dive into. Um, one, the transition from the tech space into the build space, talking about how design the, you know, the, the stigma of flipping houses versus renovating houses, and of course touching on running a business as a husband and wife dynamic duo. I think that that's always really interesting to hear people's dynamic and how they make that work. Y'all welcome to the show. Thanks. Happy to be here. I think, uh, as we were kind of going through this, there are a few interesting spots to talk about. What I'd like to start with a little bit, A.J. is talking through the transition from tech startup co-founder into one life change of getting married, and two, the life change of starting a business that's outside of technology. I started my first business at a, I think 12 or 13. What was it? Uh, it was a landscaping business. Yes. Typical mowing, mowing business. Well, where, where are you from? Monticello. Oh, there we go. White county. Come on now. Yeah. There's more than corn in Indiana. Yes. I mean, that would've been the ultimate summer gig would be like, you know, lifeguard at Indiana Beach. Yeah. So, uh, did that and then went from that to, um, you know. Uh, did some tech kind of consulting back then. Where'd you go to school?

I was homeschooled. Nice. Yeah. Uh, always been an entrepreneur? No. Like no college? No, just straight in. So how do you go from no college to working in tech? I feel like that's like the, you have to go get your degree in something or other. I think, you know, most founders, they either drop outta college or they don't, you know, go there when you're in tech and I think it's really a concept of passion. Yeah. So do you have a passion for what you're doing or not? Yeah, you kinda have to like, uh, like building and tinkering and like figuring stuff out. It's like, for an example of like Elon, he, he didn't, uh, go to rocket school or you know, nasa. Yeah. That's prior that he just became like hyper fixated and obsessed with rockets. Exactly. That's very true. Okay, I see that. So, so went from, uh, that, you know, kind of background of a little bit of kind of tech influence to then went to finish carpentry. Uh, so I was How, how did you learn that? Self-taught. So we, my parents own a, uh, a a hundred year old cottage. I think it's 150 years old now. Wow. Uh, it's in Holland, Michigan. Oh, so Tata. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So did a lot of renovating on that house and a lot of that has a lot of carpentry involved. Yeah. And so, kind of taught myself through that. Um, and always was, you know, I have two older brothers and they're, they're quite a bit older than me, eight and 10 years older than me. And, uh, they, uh, they just had no interest in doing the detailed finish carpentry work. And so I, I was the guy that always did that. Yeah. When you say detailed finish carpentry versus carpentry, what's the difference? Well, when we talk about, you know, there's framing, so anything with wood in theory is carpentry across the board. So if you, if you take saws or anything to wood, that's carpentry. But then there's, you know. Disciplines within that. Yeah. So you've got framing, you've got finish carpentry, you've got millwork, cabinetry, um, all these different, yeah. Subcategories. Well, when you say fin, that's like the fine details of like molding and mm-hmm. I don't even like trim that stuff. So to give you a frame of reference, it's basically everything past drywall, prior to paint, everything past drywall, prior related to wood. What's, what's harder? Is it harder to frame a house perfectly square or is it harder to like get the finish, you know, the trim lined up perfectly. I think there's detail guys in both of those arenas. I don't really think there's a harder or less hard spoken, like a true carpentry politician. Right? Sure. They're exactly. They're all hard in their own way. They are. Yeah. I mean, do you want to stand on, on a three story building and look down and nothing's below you framing a house? Yeah. Or do you want to be in a nice finished out space where you've got one story typically to deal with? Yeah. Working in like the, the minute like millimeter like space to get it perfect. Sixteenths, thirty-seconds, sixty-fourths. Oh yeah. Sorry. We we are, yeah, we're using US standards Exactly. Measure here. Exactly. Not millimeter space. Okay. Yep. Um, wow. So you got into, did you just get a job. And this is actually the real question. How, if you apply for a job with No, like, credentials or like experience, are you like, Hey, uh, lemme be your finish carpentry guy. I, I swear I'm good. I promise. So, you know, should tell me that, you know, it's, it's the reverse of that. It was really cool. So, worked on a, uh, my grandmother's condo mm-hmm. And I was putting up, uh, crown molding and crown molding in the finish carpentry world. It has some unique challenges to it, so it kind of sets some guys apart. Um, once you know it and understand it, it's really not that hard. But what, what are the unique challenges? So you're dealing with a lot of angles. Yeah. And crown molding basically has, you know, no crown molding is, is the same. Every crown molding is slightly different in angles. And so when you're putting those together, it's, yeah. And that's where like, it like angles out and you have to meet in the vaulting, whatever. Yeah. Okay. So I was doing crown molding and uh, a builder came in that built the condo project and he's like, you know what, why don't you bid out my, my next project? I mean, this is pretty incredible work. And I had didn't do anything in finish carpentry outside of that kinda work in terms of a business. Had a couple friends of mine that, uh, had some construction background, priced out some projects. They helped me bid out the job, won the next townhome project. Uh, and so the next condo building we, uh, we did and then went from there to then another town home project and then just kept on going from there. How, uh, how old were you at the time? Uh, I would've been 17 sta. Yeah, this builder walks in and sees a 17-year-old kid doing Gam-Gam a favor, you know, building out some crown. And he's like, yeah, you know what kid? You're hired. Well, that guy must have seen, uh, just opportunity. I was like, this kid is gonna, he does good work and he's not gonna give a high price. It was crazy. I, you know, I, I learned a lot of stuff that I had no clue. Like I remember doing our first cabinetry job. And it just, it's a whole nother world. Yeah. Beyond finish carpentry and it's just, you keep learning, learn and learning. So yeah, it was drinking out of a firehose. So really fun backstory here. Yeah. Our families actually grew up very closely, uh oh. Close to each other. We actually have known each other ever since we were little kids. So this job, he's talking about my oldest brother, actually, he enlisted my oldest brother's help on that project. Oh, wow. So yeah, that was just kind of a, a crazy backstory behind all that. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Wait, so you guys have known each other forever. When did you like start dating slash get married? That is a cool story, so, alright. I love a cool story. So, uh, I think we always had a secret crush mm-hmm. Between the two of us. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, very early on. Uh, but I grew up in a home where you don't really kind of share that until you're really ready to get married. So you don't really date anyone. Don't. You don't even imply that you don't go towards that route until you're ready to take care of that, that girl. Yeah. So my feelings were kept very su, you know, hidden. Uh, yes. We, we, at the same time, it wasn't that prominent, so it's not like, oh, this is gonna be the girl I'm gonna marry since I was, you know, 10 or something. Yeah. It was just, Hey, she's a nice girl. Uh, so then we went to the tech business and uh, I am a firm believer if you've got character and you've got work ethic, you can, which those kind of are the same thing. Similarly. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, it primarily if you got good character, you can do anything in this world. And so I knew Abbey was that type of person, and so then hired her in the tech business. And, uh, at that point I had no ulterior motives at all. No alder, none, you know, no ulterior motives. And, uh, then we worked together for, I think, three years there. Yeah, I think so. And then, um, six months before, uh, well, eight months before leaving that company, uh, the tech business, um, you know, I, I just had this thought that, man, there is no way I can live without this girl. Like, I took a couple trips away, uh, and every trip specifically, the longer ones were just like, wow, I, I gotta figure out some way of getting her involvement on something. So I've gotta have, I've gotta come up with an excuse to talk to her about something business related so that I would, I would have an excuse to talk to her. Yeah. Uh, and so I told my mom, Hey, I've, I've, uh, this is the girl I'm gonna marry, uh, Lord willing, and so asked her dad and six months later. Uh, of course asked her. I was like, I think she was on board with that. No, I was just, yeah. One of those like snatch and grab kind of situations. Yeah. I think she was on board. Yeah. And so six months later we got married. We had kind of been like hanging out more outside of work by that point and Okay. Anyway, so it was, well wait, take me through your rendition of this. So like, obviously you were like, don't show anything, keep it, and then obviously you're, you know, making the hiring choice based on character. Of course, yes. Equal opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. Of course. And, but in the back of your head, take me through like the beginning and catch us up to today. Genuinely, we joke about no ulterior, ulterior motives, but, uh, genuinely there, you know, I don't. That, that wasn't a part of it at free at all. Well, did you have, did you have have a crush on him when you were kids? Well, I mean, you know, I don't like to tell him about it now. Yeah. 'cause you know, he'll get a big head about it. Yeah, of course. Yeah. No, but definitely that was like, our families were really good friends growing up and so he was always, you know, the cool, like he was friends with my older brothers and he was like the cool older kid that Yeah, of course I had a crush on him. Uh, anyway, so, but yeah, when we, he approached me about joining, you know, this company that he and his brother, um, started together and they were working at, I was really excited about the opportunity. It's in tech, you know, just, um, just the opportunities that we're going, you know, coming with that. And so, uh, yeah. But then, um, I was actually, I forget, well. I forget the exact timing of when this happened, but, um, that was really a great baseline for us to learn how to work together before we were married. Before. Yeah. You know, um, this company really, we, I, we really learned a really amazing baseline through that. Yeah. And so, uh, yeah. So then, um, actually funny story. I wasn't going to church at the time, and when I moved to Indy, which is where their company was based out of, that's how we reconnected. So he invited me to start, um, visiting churches with him. And so we were still working together. There was no relationship. Yeah. But, uh, that's really what kind of started kicking that off outside of work and us spending more time together and, um, yeah. And then all of a sudden he's on business trips and then all of a sudden somewhere I know, I know I really need to, you know, talk about x, y, z design thing when we get back. Like, no, no, no. At the time it was, it was all about, uh, tech. Yeah, yeah. You know, so let's, let's talk, I gotta figure out, you know, can we, and start a conversation with this company or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, 'cause what, what was your background in Abbey? So, my background was really communications. That's actually what I went to school for. Um, act like you went to school or taught yourself like actual school. So I, no offense, I went to, I went to school, but, um, I'm actually not a graduate. Yeah. So, um, we are both, I would say we're both more self-starters. Yeah. Um, we're willing to just dive in and like learn on the go. Yeah. And so, uh, that was my, where were you going to? Pensacola Christian College. I don't know if you're familiar. Oh, Pensacola. Yes, I know. In Florida. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Well, like any true, great entrepreneur drops out to chase the dream. Exactly. Exactly. Let's go. So I don't, you know, kind of mixed beginnings, I guess. Uh, yeah. But, but yeah, you know, for us, then, when our relationship started developing, by that point, we kind of knew, okay, there's. You know, us staying at Yikes, A.J.., you know, continuing to, you know, grow with that company. It didn't really have lakes at that point, so, and what was yikes? Just like a quick 10,000 foot flyover. So it was basically accessing your hotel room with your phone. Uh, but imagine it in your pocket. And, uh, you just walk up, touch the handle and go in. Never have to hit the front desk. So today, again, this is like obvious stuff. Well, yeah. I would expect that to happen. But this was created back prior to the iPhone. Like, wait, where what year was this? Like what year were you? 2007, eight was when we started. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm thinking through like the tech of how that would work. Like you had a phone, like you had a, like one of those bricks, like a rectangle with like, like a flip phone. Like a flip phone, yeah. In your, the Motorola. Let's just say make it easy. The Motorola eraser. I have the Motorola eraser in my pocket. I walk up to my door. How does it know to open up? So it was a, uh, it was a smartphone. So we started out with the Android. I can't think of what version it was, but we started out with the Android, the Galaxy for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That was right around when, like the Galaxy One or whatever. Yeah, those things were hot. Uh, so working, uh, you know, on that. But it was, so we had embedded hardware inside the door to allow. The door to understand where the phone was. So we did custom RF hardware, uh, custom antennas. How did it know that the phone was my phone? Not your phone. So custom credentialing prior to arriving at your door. So then we had special access points throughout the hotel that would communicate with the phone credentialize first, and then connect, and then that would pass them over to the door and allow access. But you know, there was a lot going on back then. Yeah. And like was it a success? It was. I, I think, uh, so my brother is in an innovator, so he thinks 10 years out, which is mind blowing. And so it was, it was his idea and it was an incredible idea. Um, I think he's kinda leveraged that idea to move to another type of, you know, credentialing and processes. So that's where I think Olo came from. Um, so anyway, he, he moved on with that and I think, uh, you know, access is, uh, is an incredible area. Yeah. But I think he's, he's got his eyes on, on bigger fish now. Yeah. Well, where in the journey then did you guys decide? So obviously, you know, you end up getting married. But you were still at Yikes at that point. Mm-hmm. And where did the idea to leave and go do your own thing, where did that start? It was, it was a mutual kind of effort. Mm-hmm. Um, we understood that, uh, it was really a time for Abbey and I to do something ourselves together. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so we, we really thought, you know, what are those ideas that we would go do? Yeah. What would we pursue? And so we talked about, Hey, let's, let's go flip a house. Okay. Was it a hard conversation to have with your brother? It was, it was pretty straightforward. Uh, because really my brother is, is such a innovator that, you know, I think he's, he's ready to move. And so, uh, I was around to help out with those, those visions and those passions. Um, but I think it was, he, he's got it. So he, he kind of decided, Hey, I'm gonna do this thing. And I, I was really ready to the point of, of just, it's something, it's something else, something different. Let's get outta tech. Yeah. Uh, did that for, I think it was there for eight years. Eight, nine years. Okay. Uh, and so just ready for a change. So this is, yeah. Have you said 2000, you know, seven, eight timeframe to, I believe you guys ended up finding founding aaNovo in 2016. Yeah, sir. Mm-hmm. So when did you leave? Yikes. Same year. Same year? Okay. Yeah. And you decided to go out and flip a house? Yeah. Which is an interesting place to go because it's capital intensive and it doesn't make any money until the end of like, the house has to sell. So, like, I feel like that's, uh, something that, it's kind of risky of like, you, you know, 'cause if you. As is most construction projects over budget and uh, over timeline. You know, it's like, okay, you know, six months from now we're not gonna make any money for six months, but at, at the six month mark, we're gonna get a payday. Yep. Definitely. Like, was that the plan? Definitely that was the plan. That was the plan. Matter of fact, definitely stressful throughout the process. Okay. Take me through, you, you, do you identify the house first or do you leave Yikes. First. So, so we, uh, we determined we were leaving and we actually were on a family cruise with my entire family. Including your brother? Yeah. Yeah. And you, that's when you say, Hey, no, no, no, no. This was planned private. I was like that. Wow. Yeah. What curve ball in the family vacation? No, no, no. Will you meet me on the upper deck pool at 3:00 PM for a discussion? Ben and I, uh, he's my brother. We were ready to kind of have a little bit of a, uh, you know, separation on that front. And so we, uh, on that cruise we got approved. For the loan for a project, but it wasn't tied to a project, it was just a private, you know, kinda loan. Yeah. How does that, the financing side of that work, let's say there's young, um, aspiring entrepreneurs out there that are like, well, I'd love to do it. I, and right now it might be a tough time because money's a little expensive. Yeah. But they're like, okay, in the future when rates, you know, level out a little bit, I want to do a home renovation and flip. What, where do you start there and how did you learn about it? Flipping is a part of our journey, but that's not where we've made money. So flipping is, it's an area that, um, you really have to be shrewd in your timing, uh, what you do to the project, and making sure you're keeping your eye on the ball in terms of the return. Yeah. And a little bit of, I think those deals are made in the beginning, like. If you get a good, like a good house. Oh, for sure. Mm-hmm. Versus if you get a tough house and you're just like at one step out because, you know, fixing the roof doesn't add any extra value for it. I think it's also a game of multiples, so if you've, there's for sure it's, it's one and lost when you buy the property, that's for sure. Yeah. Uh, but, but I think it's also you kind of plan just like investments. You plan on a few of them going south and a few of them making it big. And so as long as you can kind of build to that of doing multiple, I think it kind of balances each other out. Yeah. But, but also to add, I think the way we went about it also because, like A.J. said before, flipping's kind of a curse word to us because we were not just doing the bare minimum. Bare minimum. We weren't like just. Throwing lipstick on a pig. And I think for us, that's what we, the connotation is for us. Yeah. Frequently with that. And, and that's an easy way of quickly getting a house in turning it fast, you're doing the bare minimum and you're trying to make the maximum profit. And so that for us is like the roots of where we were really focusing on quality and the design and all of those mm-hmm. Kind of aspects that have grown us to where we are today. Yeah. Well take me through that first project. So you get approved on the cruise, you know, you got a little, you got a little walking around money now that you can go put into a project. We, how does it go? We knew we had to immediately put it in a project. We actually found a project and Broad Ripple, South Broad Ripple. Okay. Where at? Um, it was 34, 30 fourth and Carrollton. So, so bro. Yeah. Uh oh yeah, a little bit. Mapleton-Fall Creek area. Yeah. So a little bit further south. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So when we, uh, we bought that in 2016, bullet holes throughout. You know, a lot going on that area was, it has gotten a lot better, I would say. Oh, for sure. A hundred percent. Like, but I, I, I first moved to town in 2019 and it was like, oh, like that 38th Street corridor. But I would say it's a little bit, you know, not as, I mean, there's been a lot of work that's been going in there. A hundred percent. So you got a spot down there. How much, do you know how much it was? Do you remember? It was, uh, the house was I think 30, 35 or something. 35,000. Yeah. I feel like today, I mean, even with bullet holes, you can't get something down there for agreed under, I mean, under a hundred and this one had like five bullet holes. It was, it was in pretty rough shape. Yeah. So, so we got that project. Our realtor was kinda like, are you sure guys? And we were, Hey, this is the house we can afford, so we're gonna go do this. Okay. So you had, you put 30 grand into it, and then what was your budget for the renovation? It, honestly, it has been a while. I know, if we can remember, I, I, I would say, you know, we put a lot of sweat equity into that house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we took it all the way down to bones. So we're not talking, you know, repainting walls and doing this kind of thing. We're talking all the way down to bones, redo basically everything. Yeah. Okay. And then you start to, you know, build and, but you said you were putting so much time and thoughtful, like design into it. Yeah, well and just, I would say also the build quality. Like we, the fact that we were taking it down to bones and we were redoing, you know, any structural framing that really needed to be readdressed. Yeah. And just thinking about, you know, the bones of the structure and making sure those were really solid. Mm-hmm. And then carrying that, of course, into the design as well. At any point in this journey did you realize that like maybe. Yeah. Given the neighborhood here, like a, uh, like boutique designed house, like, might not fit the clientele for the area. You know, if the neighbor's homes are all like 30 and $40,000 houses with bullet holes in them, like beautiful crown molding or whatever, like, might not be the move. Well that wasn't, we didn't do that stuff at that house. Okay. We, we kept it really simple. We sold that house, I think for 1 75 that, I mean, that's a pretty good lot of sweat. How long? Uh, I think it was eight. Eight to 10 months. Mm-hmm. We, we did lot. So you like, basically worked for like a year, almost a year, you know, three quarters of a year. Yeah. Not bringing in any money. So again, that was, that was a model we quickly pivoted from. Yeah. So then we went to full house renovations. Uh, so we did some historic projects. So Indiana Landmarks, um, we've done IHPC projects. What's IHPC? So Indianapolis Historic Preservation Commission Yeah, commission. And then Indiana Landmarks is another historic, um, kind of. Commission here in the area, and they're thing, you know, they're all just about preserving those, you know, key historic homes throughout. Have you been on their They do they do like properties for sale, like Indiana Landmarks, properties? No. Mm-hmm. Like guys, I mean, this could be the move like this, $185,000 historic home in Wabe. That's what I get on. Gorgeous. If you go to, uh, Indiana Landmarks.org/properties for sale, like there's some really cool histor mm-hmm. Oh, they're gonna have say over potentially the exterior and interior. Oh. And preserving that. We've done the projects, we work with them on. There wasn't really anything left on the inside to preserve Exactly. So, um, it was all exterior preservation, but in that exterior preservation, I mean, it was replacing like for like Yeah. Um, you know, on the Italianate-style houses where they had those really decorative corbels and exterior molding and millwork, it was basically getting all of that custom mill to match, you know, anything that was rotted beyond repair. Yeah. So, yeah. And wait, what was the project you were working on for them? So there we've done a, a few, yeah. Yeah, we've done a few. There was actually one here in college. Yeah. Um, and that was a little four square house. So, you know, just they're very simple, like kind of little boxy shape. Yeah. Um, a really cute And, uh, so we did that one and then we did an Italianate, which is those, you know, it's that the one that you just had pulled up. Oh, okay. That's a classic Italianate style Italianate. Um, and so you see all those corbel details on there. Uh, the one that we worked on. Oh my goodness. I mean, it looked like a haunted house. We probably could have sold tickets and made a lot over Halloween at that one, but, um, but yeah, anyways, just, yeah, it was a really neat process of working with him and histor. Yeah. How did you find that opportunity? Well, one, I wanna say right now, if you go on Indiana Landmarks.org/properties for sale, you could buy Flatwood school. Number nine, just the house. Just the school house. Three grand. Yeah. So if you wanna own a historic, like it's, it's kind of rough, you know, kind of rough, but you don't get the, you don't get the property that it's sitting on. You just get the building. So if you have, I dunno if you ever wanted an old historic schoolhouse, three grand, I'm sure maybe you give 'em an OBO, you know, Hey, we'll give you one five. Exactly. How did you guys find out that Indiana Landmarks was doing projects and that this, 'cause that's like a pretty big jump, I would say, to go from flipping a house to then doing that kind of work. Yeah, it's not that far. Uh, because we, we really had a couple properties that we bought back to back together and one of 'em had Indiana Landmarks, covenants. Oh. And so once we learned about the covenants, we, how does that work? So basically, you know, I, I'll give you a really high level understanding. Yeah. And, and I don't even think I fully get it, but, uh, you know, Indiana Landmarks goes around and, and hand selects projects that they believe have in intrinsic historic value to them. Uh, and, and it's really tied to specific details tied to, um, specific arch architecture. The time period. Yeah, the time period, those kinds of things. So I have a really high level, uh, view here, but they, they basically work out a deal with the property owner to put covenants on the project. And those covenants never get removed. So they, they are for the lifespan of that house. Uh, and it's associated with the deed. Mm-hmm. Isn't it in like the transfer of that? Something like that. Yeah. So they're set up in a way so that then they can preserve that specific value of that home. Yeah. And so whoever owns that house has to maintain whatever that value is. So, you know, in that case of the Italianate that we did, it was very much the exterior. So all the exterior details had to be like, for like copied to the original house. And so we did that. Uh, and that's kind of cool. It is, it is. Okay. I have, uh, I found that I'm on Indiana Landmarks We're gonna take a brief side tour just into Indiana Landmarks, 'cause this is fascinating to me. Do you guys wanna know the top 10 most endangered places in Indiana right now? Like the places that they are? Uh, the places we could lose unless we act. These are the top 10 spots. Okay. Coming in at number 10. Is the Mineral Springs Hotel in Paoli. Uh, this the, I mean, it looks sick. The Mineral Springs Hotel is one of the most architecturally distinctive buildings on Paoli's Courthouse Square, but it's vacant and open to the elements and unless we act Oh my, the Shields Memorial Gymnasium in Seymour, this is, I mean, a historic gym, uh, surrounded by open land that could make it a target for demolition and development. The West Side Recreation Club in South Bend. Great. Oh, this is a great, it once played a, uh, as a political and social hub for South Bend's black community. Very cool. Wow. I mean, it's very run down now, but you gotta act to save these things. This one's interesting too. College Hall, Merom Camp and Retreat Center in Merom, Indiana. Now, are all of these for sale? I don't know if they're for sale. Okay. I think that they're like the ones that need. Uh, like money for the projects, like community action, like Yeah. It's a call to action of, you know, donate to Indiana Landmarks so they can work to save membership, something membership donate. Okay. Uh, leave a legacy volunteer. Like that's pretty cool to me. That's sweet. Uh, uh, Sposeep & Sons Building and Wabash Sollman School up in Fort or down in Fort Branch. This one is interesting. Polygonal Barn in Waldron, Indiana. Like look at the shape of that thing. old world kind of style. The 12 sided Montgomery polygonal barn stands mostly vacant in need of cost prohibitive repairs. Uh, Kiwanis Field and LaPorte. Emily Kimbrough, historic district. Oh, this is bad. Proposed traffic roundabouts could significantly diminish the architectural and cultural character of Muncie's Emily Kimbrough, historic district. And the final one is Trader's Point Covered Bridge in Marion County. Traders Point Covered Bridge. There is a rare survivor that needs intervention to halt its decline, the 10 most endangered locations in the state of Indiana. Now, that was a fun side quest. It was sad. I think that's fascinating. Like I agree because I love history. So like learning about these places that like. I feel like what happens is it's like, oh yeah, like that place needs to be saved and then someone else comes along. That place needs to be, but no one ever like stands up and does something there. Or then people get upset, which like, I'd like when, let's say there's an old building that's vacant in like historic, you know, wherever on the court or the courthouse square in Paoli and like a developer comes along and you know, like renovates this and does something different. And like people are like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they changed so-and-so. And it's like, well, can you be mad? You were letting it, you know, go vacant and decay into nothing. Yeah. It's like I'd rather have it be something than nothing. Exactly. I think something that's really neat when you think about it is that some of these properties, these houses, these places, they existed during the Civil War, so like. To think about that. 'cause that's just, you know, the, what, 150 years ago? Yeah. Um, it feels like such a long time ago. But then we're like that house that we worked on. Yeah. It was there. It was, uh, 18, 18 65. 65. 18 60 18. Where was it at? It was right there. Here in Indy. Yeah. If you go like southeast, like down along the Ohio, some of those get into like the early 18 hundreds. Mm-hmm. Like, um, obviously Cordon is like Indiana's first State Capital. Vincents is like really old and like they start to look at like the 1820s and thirties and like that, I mean, 1860s when Indiana became a state. And like there are buildings that. Over 200 years old. Like that's nuts to me. Um, its, it's nuts for America. Mm-hmm. It's crazy to think about other countries and how old their buildings are. Yeah. Wild. So where along this journey did you really start to lean into like upscale a little bit. Like really with a focus on quality and design versus like, Hey, you know, when you're first getting it, you gotta like, figure out to make some money. It's like, turn over these projects. You got eight months to maximize profit. Go along. I think the first project quality was always there. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think we ever, uh, deviated from that. We did very simplistic design to try to keep the cost down. After that project, we really kind of, I, I think, came into ourselves and we came into our positions, and that's really where Abbey and I divided out into, she handled design, I handled construction. Mm-hmm. That really started right after that first house. Yeah. And so then after that, it was all about really elevating what we did and to the point, uh, where, you know, I hinted early on, you know, we're, we're not some masterful flipper. Mm-hmm. Because we really. Focused on, you know, what are those long lasting details. And people really put a, a lot of value into that for sure. Uh, but we could put our heads on the pillow every night knowing, man, we, we did that property in the best possible way that we knew how, uh, and uh, really restored value to that neighborhood, restored value to that specific property. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and then could turn it over to its new homeowners. I think it was really just like every project, it was, how can we get better at this next project? Mm-hmm. Exactly. And I feel like it was just a building block, kind of each project was a building block for the next one, and each one just became a little higher and higher end. Um, and we've been downtown for 10 years, nine years, um, and then started really doing more renovations and new builds on the north side, um, as we felt like we were just kind of scaling those up. Those, yeah. Doing more luxury level projects and finishes and um, all around and yeah. But I think that. Passion for quality has always been there from the start. Yeah. It was just, yeah, each project was a building block. Would you rather restore something that's like historic and old and maybe challenging or bring a vision from nothing into something brand new in a new build? Well, I think, okay, I'll, I'll touch at least on the design side, A.J., I'll have to speak to the build side, but I think there's absolutely a beauty in some of these, like those historic properties, some of those that you were just showing earlier. Mm-hmm. There's so much beauty in the history and the character of them. Then you just have old houses that just, they're old bones, but there's not like really unique architectural details to them. Like what do you mean by that? Like, gimme an example. 'cause I like struggle. Like, you know, some people are like, oh yeah, like can you perceive this beauty of architecture? And I'm kinda like, it looks like a building. You know? Like, I don't really know what makes it character. Yeah, what gives it good bones? Well, great question. I guess maybe this is really a personal preference thing. Yeah. So like the Italian, that's such a classic building style and it's, you know, there's this beauty in all of these details and the corbels and the roof lines. It's just, so what is it? Cor Corbel. Great question. Uh, so it's basically like this detailed bracket, for lack of a better word, it's like this, um, you know, if you look at the roof line of a pro or of a home and you see like this detailed kind of. Uh, at the corner. At the corner or, you know, underneath those eaves. Yeah. And it looks like a detailed bracket, basically wood or, you know, trim material. That's a ble. Oh. So, um, yeah, they're very, you know, just very historic detail and you see them a lot on Italianate up along the roof line, um, under the eave there. And so those are some of the, the details there that I think just really stand out, um, on some of those historic projects. And, and then you have, honestly, some of these little worker cottages. 'cause those are the ones that I would say a lot of the time there wasn't as much, uh, unique detail going into them. Um, and they're just more basic little A-frame homes and they're just not, you know, they're just a little bit more simple. But in that, and, you know, it might make some people upset, but I, I think there's some beauty in those. Um, but architecturally they're. Not necessarily as elaborate, there's not as much detail there. Yeah. Um, the beauty in those is really just that they're historic. They've been around for a long time. I dunno if that Yeah. Makes sense. But I got you. Um, yeah, so I think on the design side, I think it's amazing being able to, you know, pull from something that was, and you know, figuring out how to restore that and play with that. Yeah. Um, love that. But I have to say, I think being able to take nothing and create something out of nothing is by far top choice. Wow. Okay. From the on the build side. So learn, you can learn so much about old construction through these old projects, like the amount of, just the concept. So I'm a big building science guy, so what that means is how do we create, you know, really healthy buildings and then healthy for the people living there. Uh, so it's kind of a multi-threaded health. Uh, okay, focus. What does a, what do you mean by a healthy building? So what that means is how do we make those materials thrive through the lifespan of that building? Of course, you've gotta maintain a building. So maintenance is critical to any building no matter what, but, uh, making how you put that assembly together last in a long period of time is a critical thing that we focus on. And so that really allows the building to keep, its, you know, we talk about rot, you talk about mold, you talk about air flow, all these different things. Those are things that are toxic to buildings. Yeah. Uh, so water, what, uh, bulk water from, from our roofs, if we don't manage that correctly, man, you've got massive failures very quickly. Uh, you can cause a building to not last in a new construction mentality. Uh, a building can fail within five years if you've got bulk. Uh, so, you know, that's, you know, from the roof. So that's kind of a, b, c stuff, right? Yeah. We, we gotta keep that away. That's critical. Um, but all these other things are, are kind of add-ons to that. So, you know, the, I, I think what Abbey said there, you can create a, a really magical home when you can set all the parameters in place. So you can, you can control that from groundbreaking all the way through to handing over the keys versus when you're in a renovation, you really have to be respectful of the previous way it was built. And you can't just come in and use new building methodologies necessarily and just move it immediately. You've gotta be respectful of that. Uh, otherwise the building doesn't perform the same way it did. So an example of this would be insulation. So back when you know, a house was built in the 18 hundreds, there was zero insulation, you had plaster, you had lath, and you had framing, and that was it. And then siding, you didn't have insulation. So these houses would be able to take on a lot of water and then re dry back out very quickly and it would never compromise the building and never create bad situations. But in a new world that's not energy efficient, it's not comfortable to live in because there's a lot of air moving all the time. And that was good for the building, not very good for the people living there. So that's why you had to have a fireplace in almost every room because there was so much air moving, moving. We had to be able to heat that. And keep that consistent for the people living there. That's like that old farmhouse, you know, where you think of like, it's just drafty. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's 'cause you know, air is moving. Mm-hmm. In and around. Exactly. But that was really good for the building. The building thrived in that environment. It was a really healthy building. But the people living there not so much. They're like, this is good. Our house is healthy. Exactly. Like this is, this rocks. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. How are you guys, I mean, you talk about like healthy buildings, healthy people. How do you take that from being just like a marketing campaign and like something you say and actually put that into practice? It has to be planned out from the very beginning. This is not something you can just throw a air purifier in a house and call it good. Uh, this is how every single piece of the puzzle comes together. And application is critical. So we can use incredible building materials throughout a home. Uh, but it's really all about that application and how is that application being done in the field. And so, and then also belts of suspenders. So how do we hold up our pants with a belt plus suspenders? So when the, when the suspenders fail, the belt catches it, when the belt fails, the suspenders catch it. So redundant systems, that's really how we create really healthy buildings. Yeah. Uh, and then through mechanical systems that we add to the, the projects. Uh, there's just a myriad of ways that we do that, but it's, it's down to every single detail from the very beginning. Yeah. Well, when you're looking at design, I think that that is, for me, as someone who does not have a good design eye, it seems like something you're either born with or you're, you're born without, you know, like, so working with customers. How do you help them see what is possible? Mm. Uh, especially if you're someone like me who just like can't imagine from like a, a house, an interior or exterior perspective. Mm-hmm. Like, I just can't even imagine like what it could look like or what's capable of being built. How do you walk someone through that design process? Uh, well, it's definitely kind of an, an extensive ramp up, but ultimately people are really, they're coming to us because they're, they have a. Full job, doing full-time job, doing something else. Yeah. They didn't, you know, it's not because they studied, you know, design or anything like that. It's just frequently, uh, you know, they come to us with an idea of this is what feels good to me, this is what, um, you know, it's a, it's really just diving into how are you living in your space? What does, you know, really believe function needs to drive, how we lay out a building, how we lay out a home, and how we, um, you know, drive that interior design. So it's really function and then feeling focused and the feeling you can get a lot from, you know, inspo images. Somebody just shows you a picture and they're like, this feels good. It could be the lighting in the home, it could be, you know, some of the color tones, things like that. So that can kind of build that design DNA for us as we're moving through that project. Um, making sure we're really capturing exactly, you know, at the end of the, the project, we're capturing exactly what, um, is going to create those special moments for our clients. Yeah. But a big part is really understanding. How our clients live. You know, who else's in the family, you know, how much do you entertain, you know, how are you using this home? And then if we're looking at the context of the site, and this is where when you were asking, is it great to build something new or renovate? The thing that's amazing is when you know you're creating something new, you can, um, take a look at where you're building and those site views and how the sun's gonna hit the, the land at a certain time of the day. And where somebody, you know, maybe you want your office at a certain point in the day to have a lot of natural light or something like that, you know, you really get to know it's such a personal process, um, to really get to know our clients and what they're looking for and what really, um, is gonna delight them when they're living in their home. And so, um, it's really just a lot of data Yeah. Download, um, from our clients and then for us, of course, uh, you know, for me, when I'm really thinking about that design vision. You just grab onto inspiration and you just start, start to run with it. Yeah. But it's all like basing it off of those kind of parameters that we've gotten from our clients, how much of it is giving the client what they want or guiding them to what is actually a good design. It's definitely kind of walking that line. Yeah. Um, you know, something I always say to our clients, I'll push back if I think something is a really bad idea. So, yeah. You know, I think that's only fair. I think that's what the way to, you know, well, 'cause sometimes people are too nice where they're like, if I'm like, oh yeah, I really want to do, you know, black shutters and navy sighting, and you're like, please know, you're like, oh, that is a choice. You know? And I always really appreciate people if, if I'm hiring you to be the expert in something, like, don't ask me what I think or like, if you do ask me what I think, like correct me if I think something that's silly because I have no idea and I'll just be like. Yeah. I'll end up in a Canadian, I'll end up in a Canadian tuxedo to like go into someone's wedding and double denim thinking this looked good because everyone was like, yeah, that looks okay. Like, not bad. Mm-hmm. You know, and versus like, Hey, uh, actually traditional practices say you should wear a white shirt when you have your denim pants on, or whatever. Exactly. And you know, I think it's like you, you know, if you have something in your teeth, you want your friend to be able to tell you, Hey, you got something there. You need to, you know, fix that. Yeah. Or whatever. And so I think that's partly how we, you know, approach it with our clients is, um, at the end of the day, you know, tell this to everybody we work with. At the end of the day, if somebody really wants something, they feel, I gotta have this, I gotta have this Navy house with, with black shutters, or whatever the example was that you just used. And they're like, dead set on it. I'll tell them, you know, Hey, I wouldn't recommend that. Black and blue, you know, bold design choice probably wouldn't go that on the outside, but, you know, and then maybe try and steer them towards some, you know, alternate options. But, um, and actually visualization is a big part of our process. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So we do 3D uh, rendering se for all of our exterior and interior pace spaces, because we're all such visual creatures. Like, it's, it's, yeah, it's understandable. Like you gotta be able to visualize what something's gonna look like before you even know. Yeah. Do I like this? Does this feel good? But something is that, you know, 3D is thrown around all the time, right? Oh, we do 3D. Well, 3D could be just a box drawing. Then that's 3D for us. 3D is really realization of, you can barely tell the distinction between real and not real. Yeah. And so well, and then we can walk our client through the spaces. Yeah. So, you know, we actually can be in the model and like walk them through and you know, here's what this view will look like in your kitchen and this little, what it'll look like in the bathroom. You could stand out front and let them know that this house looks like a bruise in house form. It's black and blue. Exactly. All over. Exactly. Like, what are we doing? And then we say, if you wanna go, we can do it. But yeah, if you're cruising for bruising, this is your house. Uh, has AI helped with the modeling piece of like, you could go through and design this whole thing and help it come to life? Um, so there's aspects of that. So Midjourney is actually really neat for the ideation process. Yeah. The cons, conceptualization. Um, so much you can do with that. You can definitely create renders. There's a lot of, um, different, different things out that there that you can do. I, I think the thing is, at least for us, we want our renderings to be, um, as realistic as possible. Yeah. So, you know, the scale, the materials, all of those things as, as, uh, and I just, AI hasn't quite gotten to that Yeah. Level where, um, you know, it's always kind of modifying something. Yeah. Or it's always kind of like the window is shifted over a little bit. It's like there's, I mean, guys will probably know the feeling. It's like if your significant other starts to like cruise on Midjourney, uploading your Zillow photos and like sending you back over, like, we could do this like artsy deck out front. And I'm just like in my head thinking like, well that's 50 grand and we're never gonna get back. Like, oh yeah, we could move the staircase over here. And I'm like. Say what? Yeah. And that's such a key part that I think, you know, it, there's so many amazing homes that have been designed and they've never been built. And it's because, you know, it's walking that line of, you know, being responsible with what somebody, you know, stewarding somebody's resources well, like this is how much they wanna put in this project, they want this certain end result. How are we gonna get from point A to B in a house that's like. Beautiful aesthetic functions for them. Yeah. And is well built. Yeah. How are we getting a, on our B budget? You know, like, yeah. Yeah. Because everyone, I would say for the most part, it's like, you know, you dream a little bit bigger than what your checkbook allows. Exactly. And it's like trying to like not crush their dreams and be like, oh, well all you can afford is D But it's like, how do you get some of, you know, those things and put it all together, designed well, premium feel, but yeah. It's like, yeah, that is affordable. That's a critical piece of our business. So day one, we're sitting down with the client trying to understand where their desired budget is. Yeah. Uh, and, and once we figure that out, we can backfill everything to that. Yeah. And we will also be very transparent with them day one, Hey, you wanted that gold plated spiral staircase? That's, that's not in the budget. We're not gonna be able to get that. Versus the house is gonna look exactly the same. It'll just have your staircase versus. The alternate is, let's design your wildest dreams. Let's get it on paper. Let's get you bought into it. And then we'll figure out if we can make the numbers work or not, and then crush your dreams, kind of, which is kind of a sales process that I feel like, uh, and this isn't just homes, but like any, it's like you, you, you go to the car dealership and all of a sudden you're looking at a 2027 Dodge Charger and you came in for like a Chrysler 300. You know, like from like you're looking for your first used car for like your kid and all of a sudden you're like, yeah, you know, I could see myself behind the wheel of this, this like $120,000 big rig. It's like, what do we do? And all the credit, credit card bounces. You spent three hours in the showroom just looking at the thing that you're never gonna drive home with. Yeah. And you're like, wait, you go sweetheart, we have to got to get this deal. They're like, zero closing costs if we buy this weekend. Exactly. You know, like great financing. And all of a sudden you're like, you out over your skis on that. Exactly. I do think starting with the number in mind makes sense and working from there and, and those are conversations where we will, we'll, you know, lose clients right then. Mm-hmm. But we'd rather lose them then. Then go through months of design and then lose them then. Yeah, absolutely. And that's wasting really their time and our time in that process. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We really wanna work on projects that we can take start to finish. Yeah. Yeah. Are there any projects that you think of, of, of the top of your head that are just like the coolest things you guys have done? Well, we've got a signature project we just finished up, uh, it's actually in Chatham Hills. Oh. It was a show home that we did, uh, for HOME-A-RAMA So, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with HOME-A-RAMA. Give us the, I I've heard of it, but I don't know, I'm not HOME-A-RAMA is basically, uh, some of the top luxury custom builders that all team up and put on a, a street of homes that you can come and tour. So the wine wall is an ex, an excellent touch. Yeah. I'm not. Okay. Go on the aaNovo, uh, website to the portfolio and then The Grange. Holy smokes. This thing is crazy. Well, so that, yeah, it It has one of those, Pools with the floor. That's, that's the TRESSS pool. So that's an Indiana company. It is. Are they in Zionsville? They are, yeah. Yeah. Phenomenal company where like, it can be like two feet or it can be like no feet. It could be two inches, it could be five feet. It has swim jets in there. It's a hot tub all year around a splash pad if you have grandkids or kids, you know, little, yeah. Little. Uh, what are those called? Fountain things? Yeah. Yeah. Who's the photographer that did this? 'cause also spectacular shots. Okay. Sarah Shields. Sarah. Sarah Shields Photography. She is phenomenal. We've had the pleasure of working with her for many years now. She's actually, um, yeah, just it, it's phenomenal. Her work is phenomenal. Has this, ends up traveling all around the country. So, has this house sold? It isn't. It's available. This is available Nate. Nate, you can move in tomorrow. If this video gets 1 billion views, maybe we could afford the grange. This is sick. I think the standout feature of that house, um, was the courtyard that we put in the middle of the house. So there's, um, you know, the, the desire was to really create this indoor outdoor space feel that was completely private. 'cause it's right on the, it's right on off of the golf course there. So it's looking down hole 16. And we really just wanted to create this moment that somebody could, you know, pull the, the draperies and then just have this private outdoor moment in the middle of the house and then kind of created a debacle. It had this kind of crazy idea of like, why don't we put a tree in the middle of the house? And so, uh, in this courtyard that's in the middle of the house. And so that's, then that created some interesting challenges for the build side, which, yeah. Um, did you get a tree in the middle? We did. You'll see it in the, in the pictures. So. The, what's cool about this tree is it filters the light, it creates, uh, warmth, um, and nature tied into the center of the house. Yeah. And so you just can, you can, yep, exactly. Yeah. Obviously it, it needs to grow a little bit. Um, but once it's, you know, at its full size, it'll be amazing of just filtering that light. Seeing green in the center of your house is, is a feeling that people don't get to have. And so it's, it's a special moment. And then tie that with the architecture and all of the windows that surround that. So the entire second story surrounds into that. The entire first story surrounds into that. So it's kind of the focal point of the house. I mean, that is a crazy house. That's super cool. Thanks. We're excited to do it. How long did it take to design that? 16 months, I think from beginning to end. So I think, is that a, is that a very quick turnaround or very quick? Well, that's very quick for especially a house that scale. So, uh, design time before we started breaking ground, I think was like three months. Um, which is. Crazy fast. Um, so we were, it was almost, it turned into one of those projects because it was the home show. So we had this deadline. You either hit it or you're not in the show. It's, uh, so I, I love the term unmovable deadline. There's no one you can call. It's either you make it or you don't. Mm-hmm. You know? So how, how long before the deadline did you guys get it finished? Uh, we got it finished right on time. There you go. Great answer. Yeah, it was ready to go. Exactly. That's what you say. You need to make it or you don't. We made it. Exactly. Yeah. He's like potting soil around the tree in the center, like, all right, we're good to go. It's like two hours before people start walking through, it's like, uh, yeah, you're like doing some finish carpentry right there. Yeah. There we go. I love it. We had heard the, you know, horror stories of, of builders who weren't able to get the, you know, home done by the show, um, in years past or, you know, just, yeah. And before, and so that was our biggest panic was we're doing this massive project specifically for it to be in this show and just, yeah. Making sure we, we, because people come and walk the street and want to see it and check it out and Well, there were like, what, over 17,000 people that ended up around 17 coming through. That's crazy. Between 16, five and 17,000. Yeah. So I guess a plug for next year. I think they're doing another HOME-A-RAMA In Wild Air. In Wild Air, yeah. Um. Yeah. Where's wild there? So it's in Zionsville. Oh, alright. Yeah. It's a cool, really cool little neighborhood. When you guys look at architecture across, you know, Indianapolis and Central Indiana, where are some of your favorite spots? Like what neighborhoods or parts of town just have really unique, distinct architecture? Really love, I mean, old North Side downtown in terms of, you know, architectural character, um, here in Indy. Yeah. Why do you, you think that is? Like why does the old North Side have those like big, uh, old school homes? Um, it was the, where the wealthy built their homes back, you know, when Yeah. It was like the Carmel of, it was Indiana or Indianapolis before Carmel existed. I mean, they were basically estate homes back then, and so, yeah. And like, I wonder why wait a state home? What does that mean? Well, um, so estate home more just, you know, it's somebody who has a lot. You know, very wealthy. They're passing it down to their, you know, children potentially. I think that's super cool and like, you know, broad Ripple has really, like the broad Ripple bungalow is like the, uh, the local term up here. Yep. Yeah. And it's like they're very small. I actually heard a story back in the day. People used, people from Indianapolis, used to summer in Broad Ripple. Like, oh yeah, we are going up to our summer home in Broad Ripple, like when it took you like a few hours by via horse and carriage to get here. That's fascinating. Yeah. We'd love to know more about that. Used to su I, again, don't quote me on this, but I did UI did hear that. Yeah. The Indianapolis wealthy from downtown, used to summer in Broad Ripple. That's a crazy, in a little bungalow. In a bungalow. Yeah, I do. I'm always intrigued by that, by like why areas have architecture. Like why does the old North Side have these bigger historic homes? Why are the houses so small and broad? Ripple, why, you know, if you get over into. Like, is it the Holy Cross neighborhood where all the fountains are? Like what? What's the neighborhood on the northeast side of downtown that has like all the fountains, like that place sounds Fountain Square. Well that's the southeast side. Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about Woodruff Place. Is it Woodruff Place? Yeah. They have like all the roundabout type fountains in the center of the road. Just, just north of Holy Cross is Woodruff. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. Like I used find like neighborhood history. Very interesting. Yeah. There's actually a neighborhood that we've spent, uh, quite a bit of our career in. It's Springdale, it's Springdale and it's just uh, to the east of, of Bottleworks and kind of all that, that area. Uh, and it's just an incredible little cozy neighborhood over there. What's like the Cross 10th and Brookside? Yeah. Okay. Brookside would be an Angle Street. Okay. Oh, is like, is Mass Ave like the top, the north? Tech. Yeah. Is that like where, like the Circle City Industrial complex? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or I think they have a new name for it now, but, and Boulder is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm following 10th. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, this area. And it's like, there's still obviously like, you know, putting, uh, investment and like working on for sure. It's like Arsenal Tech near there. It is just south. Yeah. Okay. I'm following. Yep. You got, how many different properties and projects have you done in there? Uh, we've had always a, a house or two in there since our beginning. Yeah. Very, very close to our beginning, so couldn't put a number on it. How do you identify like projects to take on? Well, so now it's, it's client focused, so we really don't take on projects that aren't for a specific client at this point. Yeah. Like someone comes to you and wants them to, wants you to renovate their mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But our history has been a lot about location. And then about, um, you know, what is, what is the, the intrinsic, um, kind of characteristics of that house. Yeah. So, and you know, I think when Abbey looks at the house, it's, it's gonna have some character to it. We don't want to mm-hmm. Ideally take on just a house that's a box, you know? Yeah. Like to have some value to it. This next question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at home. Is jc hart.com very fitting as you're talking about design and building homes? Yeah. Yeah. Um, my question for y'all, why do you call Indiana home? Abbey and I had the, had the pleasure of growing up in two kind of smaller cities, so, Monticello, Delphi. Oh, the Oracles. Exactly. There we go. Uh, Abbey was a country girl. Uh, her family always would call me our family, the city s slickers, because we lived in the boom and metropolis of Monticello. Uh, so, uh, we. We've just always been Hoosiers and I think it's in our DNA and so we, we pivoted to, uh, Indianapolis and ever since then, it's just, it's the cozy small town that's, you know, larger, but it's small. It's amazing what we have here though. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, yeah, just love the community, love the people here. It's a, it's a big small town. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Absolutely. Okay. Uh, a couple rapid fire questions here. What's the first thing you notice when you walk into a new home? You can really tell how much effort whoever built it, put into the house very early on once you walk in. So you can just see the details popping out, or, uh, remind me not to invite you over to dinner. You know, it comes in and out all of a sudden. Yeah. You know, back in 1946 when this was built, they didn't put a lot of effort. It's like, bro, come on now. Okay. Photo up from the design side. Oh man. I think, um, the lighting of a home. You know, how is the lighting, how is the light coming in? And then just the overall coordination of the, the color tones and materials used. Mm-hmm. I mean, it just immediately, um, you know, is it give you a warm, cozy feeling? Is it a little bit more of like a, mm-hmm. Um, refined, not sterile. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. Refined. Elevated. And I just, yeah, I think it's just interesting to see everybody's taste come through uniquely in that. And what is the easiest, like if you don't have a huge budget, but you want to level up your space a little bit, if we're talking like maybe a living room or a kitchen or anywhere, you know, what are some tips you have to elevate your living space and your aesthetic on a not huge budget? Lighting and paint. Lighting and paint will always be the most cost effective. So what do you mean by lighting? Like the light fixtures. Light fixtures, yes. Oh, yeah. I have a lot of those. Um, I don't know if it's an industry term, but they call them the boob light. You know, I You need to change those out. Yeah. Just, just everyone says that everyone says that. Yeah. Uh, yeah. You know, they were cool a couple decades ago. Yeah. But I love how Abbey's interchanging lighting. So most of the time when she's talking about lighting, she's actually talking about natural light. Oh yeah, that's true. And then that last question, not always a lot you can do about that on a budget. Yeah. So yeah, just cut out a window when you're just open up. Yeah. So when you're architecting a project, it's very much about placement of lighting, how much light, that kind of thing from windows outside bringing that light from the outside in. Uh, but her last point definitely. Totally. Interior lighting. Yeah. What's a light fixture that's in right now? A really minimal, um, flush mount that has like an antique brassy tone on it, like brassy tones, antique bronze, uh, but it would be, those are flat, but it like flush mount, um, or surface mount. Okay. So, so surface mount would be your wonderful lights that you have in your house. Those are all surface mounts. So if you just put a new surface mount in, uh, that doesn't have that dome shape to it anymore. Exactly. There you go. Mm-hmm. That'll really up, you know, elevate the space. It, but it's, it's so dependent on, are you going a little bit more traditional edge? Are you going a little bit more minimalistic and modern? Mm-hmm. Uh, a light fixture that I think is so underrated is a, um, mono point light. Um, so like, if you look, um, they're very European, minimal, modern, warm kind of, uh, vibe, those type of things, yes, you may, you give me the look, but if you look at the grange or the, the kitchen of the project that we just did, you'll see three of those. Those are actually in there and it's. It's a way of like, I wouldn't put 'em in a hallway necessarily. You know, it's kind of, you gotta use it sparingly, but it's a way of like, you can cast light. There's a little subtle detail there and it just is meant to blend in the background a little bit more. Mm. But versus being like a focal point. Yeah. Okay. But again, each person's style is a little different, so. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have advice for couples that work together? I think finding your lane is a really big one. No, I totally think that's, that's the key to success. I think Abbey and I see each other as fighting back to back in business, uh, and we've got each other's backs. Uh, so I think if you have a hundred percent, the other person's back. Uh, that'll, that'll work well. Yeah. And then like Abbey just said, having those separate lanes. 'cause when you're in fighting back to back, you're very much handling your own set of things. Yeah. You're not, you're not doing that together necessarily. And knowing each other's strengths, like I know for sure, you know, just knowing when to like, let the other person speak to their strengths or act on that and Yeah. When to not coming to the end of the show. Wow. You like blink and all of a sudden you've been recording for 60 minutes. But we do have the same three questions that we ask every guest that comes on. Uh, first, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana? It is a place that has a little bit of everything in my opinion. Uh, you've got beautiful hillsides, you've got, uh, a lot of wooded areas. Then you've got this free flowing fields that are everywhere. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's, you've kind of got just the blend of kind of a lot of different landscape in this, in the state. And not everyone, like, I think the stereotype doesn't, uh, embody that. It's like you can go through the coastline, you can go to the hills of southern Indiana, but everyone's just like, oh yeah, it's flat. And there, there really is more than corn in Indiana. A Monte, no one, no words' True or have ever been spoken. Yeah, exactly. Uh, Abbey, what is something the world needs to know about Indiana? There's so many incredible creatives here in the Midwest, and, um, specifically, you know, just even thinking on the design side and, you know, photographers and everything that I feel like there can be a lot more focus given on West Coast, east Coast for, um, you know, people in that industry. But I just, I think Indiana like it, um. It's this culture of like, excellence, but mixed in with humility of like, we, you know, we're not really seen a lot, uh, maybe not as prominent, uh, uh, focus, you know, there's a lot of like architectural Digest, uh, uh, articles on, you know, designers on the east or west coast and those are, or Nashville, Tennessee, you know, some of those areas that get a lot of that focus. But it's just amazing to see how much talent is around here. Um, and I think the humility that goes along with that, which is really neat. So. Absolutely. Okay, Abbey, we're gonna keep with you. This is your chance to enlighten us about a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? we love a place called the Jazz Kitchen. So thinking of a specific spot, but, uh, yes. Yeah. Have you been Uh, okay. So fun fact. Um, I didn't realize that it was like a sit down, ticketed. thing I thought it was like, oh, there's a show tonight and you can come and go, whatever. Yeah. And so, my first date with Lauren, um, I was like, okay, let's go get dinner at Root and Bone and then we'll go to The Jazz Kitchen thinking like normal, you know, go get dinner, then go to a show. And so, I don't know, we show up at like. Let's say, uh, nine 20 or something like that. And they're like looking at us funny, like, do you have tickets to this? And I was like, yeah. Like, they're right here. And then come to like, like our seats are up in the front and we like missed dinner, missed the whole thing. And we like, what? And it was, I was like, ah, we'll just sit back here by the bar because like it's a ticketed thing. Mm-hmm. And it's dinner and the whole experience. Yeah. I had no idea. And then they played 10 minutes of music and it was over. Oh. And I was like, oh no. But it was still fun. We ended up gonna the bulldog across the street and we learned Yeah. That the jazz kitchen, if the show starts at 8 you gotta be in your seat and be there early and like, it's a whole thing. That's a really good note. Yeah. And frequent, I mean, they pull in a lot of local artists and then artists from, you know, out of state so that it's really neat. Like it's a. Uh, focusing on kind of both of those sides, but at least the times we've gone, it's amazing to see they're almost always sold out. Yeah. And it's just a hit spot. And there's like, you know, they'll do some open dancing nights where they'll give you like salsa lessons and stuff. Like, it's a total vibe. And I think that it's one of those spots where everyone's like, oh, you know what? I should go there one day. And it's like, just do it. Just like, get up and go do it. 'cause it is cool. Yeah. It was a total vibe. Um, I love that. Okay, A.J., what's a hidden gem in Indiana Cunningham Restaurant. I was literally gonna say it's probably Cunningham. Yeah. So, so literally every restaurant you go into, you're gonna get that elevated experience. You're gonna get that elevated taste. Yeah. Uh, and then their, their, uh, serving staff is just, is amazing. Yeah. Top tier. Okay. Like where within Cunningham do you like love? Where do you Commission Row was a place we went recently and, uh, their, their server. I mean, I don't think we've ever experienced a server that talented in our, in our life. No way. And, and this, this server was so personable. Yeah. While being so knowledgeable at everything on their menu and if they, you know, they can make whatever you wanted. Uh, and, and then, you know, so we're very visual people, right? Yeah. So we, we like to understand what we're about to get. Well, this guy could explain what you are about to get without ever seeing it. Dude, that is such, in a way you could totally visualize, that's such a talent to be like, yeah, you're gonna get a lamb shank and it's gonna be covered in this sort of sauce and the marinade, and then it'll be garnished. And you're like, there you go. Wait, I see it like in my head and it comes out and you see it and you're like, oh my gosh. Well, and what was wild is I think when we went there, um, I had, he was trying to describe this cocktail I had had before that was amazing. And, uh. He nailed it. He was like, oh, you know what? I think you'd really like X, Y, or Z, you know, and then ended up going back to the bar, bringing it back, and it was phenomenal. I was like, this is crazy that you're able to just go off of just some flavor profiles and then like pull it up. Some people are just incredibly talented. Yeah. And that's where it's like you, you know, you get to that like top level of that and it's a career. Like, I mean, one, one thing that I love is like if you, when you go to like St. Elmo, they list years of service on the back and you have like, like 20 years, 25 years, 30 plus year people that have just made their life, like becoming an expert in the customer service realm. An expert in knowing the menu and you know, dining. Like I always love it. I think it's so cool. Mm-hmm. Okay, final question. This is where we get recommendations for future guests and we learn about people that are doing inspiring things. Who's a Hoosier? We need to keep on our radar. Someone who's doing big things. I'm gonna dovetail right into what I just said. Yeah. So his name's Mike Cunningham. Yeah. That, that guy amazing, uh, business owner, he obviously figured it out in, in Cunningham Restaurant Group. And then I think it's just amazing. He, he's so humble in what he does. Yeah. And it's amazing to be able to watch him. I have been trying, Mike just doesn't like talking about him or himself a lot is what I'm guessing. That dovetails into humility. Yeah. Right. Because I've talked to a few people, oh my gosh, we'd love, and I'm like, I keep planting the seed. Planting the seed. I want him to come on and tell the story. Do it to, I mean, we had Colin, um, from, he won, oh my gosh, not master chef, but one of the like top chef maybe. Yeah. Like he got a hundred k from being like, you know, and he works within Cunningham. He makes some of the best food. Like Colin is an insane chef. That's so cool. And he's within Cunningham. I went to their Grow series down at the greenhouse on the south side. Dude, they do good stuff. For real, for sure. Um, Mike, this is your standing invite. Come on the show, man. Uh, all right. Who's the Hoosier? We need to keep on our radar. Someone who's doing big things, uh, referenced her before, uh, Sarah Shields. We've worked with her, uh, quite a few times, but I think she's just, her name I think is gonna keep getting out there more and more. Uh, this is specifically in the design industry. Yeah. Um, but she's doing projects all across the country and, um, her work's, been in Architectural Digest, um, House Beautiful, all these really big, uh, big magazines and, um, publications out there. And, um, it's just really amazing to see what she's doing. She's just, it's neat to hear her passion for, um, the art of photography and just, she keeps pressing in and continues to, yeah. Dive into that, so I love it, y'all. Well, hey, thank you so much for coming on the show, sharing your journey, talking about, oh my gosh, historic Indiana Landmarks and the top 10, oh my gosh, the top 10 buildings that we need to come together and save. Exactly like crazy that polygonal barn like the 12 sided barn in Waldron, Indiana. Crazy. Uh, it was really cool getting to learn also about like design tips and ways to elevate our spaces and just thinking through, I feel like, you know, people's homes are largely like the biggest purchase that most people ever make for sure. And so thinking about how you take care of that and how you can build a space that is healthy for the building, healthy for the person, healthy for just all the components going together there, I think it's so, so cool. So yeah, it was a pleasure learning more. If people wanna learn more about you guys and aaNovo and all the things you're doing, how can they do that? aanovo.co. Mm-hmm. So, aa: A.J. and Abbey. And Novo stands for renew or restore in Latin. And uh, that's, that's how you can find us. There it is. Yeah. Uh, double A. Come on. Yeah. You know, that makes sense. I love it. Well, hey, thanks for stopping by and we'll talk soon. Well, thanks for having us. Thanks so much. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state. Make sure you follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Nate Spanel. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hoosier State. Great. We'll see you next time here on Get IN.