Questioning WNBA Leadership, Caitlin Clark Headlines Fever All-Stars, and Purdue Alums in the NBA

This lack of leadership and accountability is astounding. They're not going to do him any favors here just because he's from Indiana, right? He's got to earn it. And so when you look at the NBA, it's the same thing. LeBron, look at the longevity of that body. Well, just the investment into his body.

Often times those guys, there's a lot of burden that comes with it. Are you going to live up to that? You ever drive down the interstate and you see a car that's been through hell? It is put together by scrap metal and duct tape and you're just hoping for the best. That is the absolute definition of what the Colts are. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are, however you may be listening.

Thanks for tuning in to the Get Indiana Podcast Network. My name is Dominic Miranda and I've been covering sports for nearly a decade, most of which right here in Indianapolis. This is the Get In Sports Podcast. We're going to be covering everything in the Hooser State, high school, college, pro, in the sports capital of the universe, in the greatest state on planet Earth. Thanks so much for coming on this journey with us. Let's get into it.

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome inside the studios of Get In and Get In Sports, part of the Get Indiana Podcast Network. We're back again. We're talking ball and there's a lot to get to here today. So, why don't we get right into it? We have Matt Carroll, first time repeat guest, recurring guest you might call him.

Matt Carroll is back on the podcast talking all things NBA draft recap with Braden Smith and Trey Kaufman Ren getting drafted. just kind of some general thoughts about basketball at in the association and talking about the World Cup which is so close to finishing up so sadly because of what a great time it's been. Matt Carroll actually grew up in Latin America so he has a an enhanced appreciation about the World Cup and soccer as a whole and what it means to those nations in Central and South America and Europe and all these different places that it is the main sport. but it is the main thing for these different countries. So, really unique perspective from Matt Carroll. Again, one of just four players to ever play for both Matt Painter and Jean Katy.

So, basketball fanatic talking about Purdue guys who've made the jump to the next level and a lot of other stuff as well, especially about the fever and Kaylin Clark and Sophie Cunningham. So, you'll want to definitely stick around for that interview with Matt Carroll. But today, we got to talk about it and we've talked about it basically all summer long. Don't worry, folks. football is almost here to save us from ourselves. But we got to talk about the WNBA.

Over the weekend, Dan Patrick, longtime sports broadcaster, host of the Dan Patrick show with the Danets and everything, legend, okay, told the story about how he was going to have WNBA commissioner Kathy Angelber on his podcast, on his sports show, I guess you would call it, and she said yes. going to answer the tough questions again during this whole Caitlyn Clark situation with the Phoenix Mercury and beyond that just the general feelings and question marks and so many different things have happened this WNBA season as far as yes a lot has revolved around Caitlin Clark there's no question about it but there's this narrative that there's this like conceited cons you know this effort basically to concerted effort to make it so Caitlyn Clark isn't the face of the league or something of that effect. She and she hasn't answered anything about this or she didn't come out and answer anything about, you know, Alyssa Thomas is saying she wasn't notified of the suspension till hours before.

She's getting death threats. Caitlyn Clark's whole situation is being blown out of proportion. So, these players are hitting the media, the coaches are hitting the media, but Kathy Angelbert not like loudly silent about the entire thing. So, not only is she not even just putting out statements during this whole thing, she's not addressing anything on camera. Nothing of this effect. So, Dan Patrick asked her if she'll come she'll come on the show.

She says yes. He's like great. So, they wait 90 minutes after they're done recording one day for her to come. Keep waiting. Keep waiting. Keep waiting.

Finally, she hits a representative hit them back and said, "Look, she's not going to talk to you based on the advice of PR of WNBA." This lack of leadership and accountability is astounding. I just have to say, and the reason I bring this up on this particular podcast is because a lot of it is revolving around Caitlyn Clark and the Indiana Fever. like why, and we're going to get into it with Matt Carroll as well, but why the league can't seem to just embrace the Indiana Fever superstar as the face of the WNBA is beyond me. She has instituted and, you know, kind of spearheaded this increased interest, this increased viewership. You know, the style in which she plays is so fascinating and fun.

I mean, we've talked about it before on this podcast, how 19 of the top 20 most viewed WNBA games include Caitlyn Clark. So, she's just like a superstar. And I I don't want to get like too in the weeds about this cuz it's exhausting. And, you know, I think Kaitlin Clark's tired of it. I think everybody's tired of it because we know that she's a stud and we know that she is one of the main drivers of this increased popularity of the WNBA. The league just can't seem to understand that.

And I don't understand this Kathy Inglebert situation. you are the commissioner of the WNBA. If you want to go on a podcast, you can do that. You don't have to listen to your PR team. In fact, in this case, you shouldn't listen to your PR team because there's been zero comments coming out of the league office. And you want to talk about squashy narratives, a levelheaded statement about anything, you on camera addressing this head-on would do wonders for this where it doesn't fester and people don't say things that aren't true because you nipped it in the bud from the beginning and maybe come to bat for your superstar of this WNBA league.

Say it without a shadow of doubt. Caitlin Clark's face of this league. And you know what? We do need to do we need to do a better job of protecting her. That needs to happen because it's getting to a point where this is getting dangerous and ridiculous and stupid. So unreal out of her to ditch someone as famous and as you know well-renown and unbiased and with such integrity of Dan Patrick to just you know if you don't want to do the interview don't do the interview.

Say no. We in this industry, we get that all the time. But to say yes and then just leave and don't do it and then just like no. And the response and the excuse to do that I just have a serious problem with. So just wanted to off the top say that because we need someone from this league and and maybe a commissioner, a different commissioner needs to step in because I've been largely like give her the benefit of the doubt. The WNBA increased in popularity overnight.

She wasn't prepared for this. they weren't prepared for this. And that's all true, but just be accountable. You have to be accountable and be a leader in these situations and get out in front of these situations and like, yeah, maybe get a new PR team because I think a good PR team would be like, yo, you need to talk to the public about this. Maybe go on, pick pick the most reputable sports program there is. Go on and squash these narratives and maybe people won't like your answers, but at least you're answering.

And I think that's the big thing with me in the WNBA. Like I don't know. It feels like they're a victim of their own success right now. The lack of leaning into Caitlin Clark in the Indiana Fever to me was just crazy. It's just it's the most popular fan franchise right now. The best fan base.

I mean, everywhere they go, there's Fever fans and Caitlin Clark fans. Like, just take your blinders off and understand what's what's happening here. We'll talk about it a bit more in a second, but Fever middle of the pack right now. Three Fever Allstars. Kelsey Mitchell, Aaliyah Boston, Caitlyn Clark. First time ever consecutive seasons there have been three Fever Allstars.

So that's awesome. Um Sophie Cunningham was close, very popular. Obviously, Fever, we've talked about it. They're middle of the pack right now. They are what their record says they are, but it does feel like they're kind of getting a little pep in their step here midseason. And I think the All-Star break is going to come at a really good time.

I'm going to be there actually. So be sure to follow along on social media on at Miranda TV, get in sports. Um, we're going to do some cool stuff and I'll have Boots on Ground there in Chicago. Um, I I'm going to go out on a limb here. This hasn't been said and maybe by when this podcast release it will be, but I'm going to go on a limb and say Kaitlin Clark is going to participate in the three-point contest because she was supposed to last year in Indianapolis. and obviously got hurt and wasn't able to do that and Lexi Hull competed in herstead.

But the day we're we're owed as WNBA fans here, Caitlyn, come on now. You got to participate and win this three-point contest cuz I'm going up Friday. We hotel's booked. So, if there's no Fever participation on Friday, then I'm so here. All right. And so is uh WTHR.

So, we need to uh make sure that happens. But I think this is going to be a good break for the fever. Um, health has remained an interesting part of this with Caitlyn Clark's back. There's been a minutes restriction. This road trip's kind of been wonky. They're back at home finally.

Um, lower leg injury for Ilia Boston. Back spasms for Sophie Cunningham. Not major stuff, but kind of like, all right, maybe another break won't be all that bad. And actually the break they just got done with uh because of the Commissioners Cup stuff is going to be longer than the All-Star break. Riddle me that uh WNBA. But look, I'm not going to sound the alarm here.

Um and we'll get to some other stuff here, but WNBA just do better. And Fever, they're going to hit their stride late season. We'll dunk it. What do you think? Yeah, I think the um just like what you said, I think the Fever are what they say they are, what the what they look like on paper. Um, I do also want to point out the fact that I know that we talk about the injury concerns with Caitlyn Clark, uh, obviously the lower leg injury to Aaliyah Boston, but I personally think that Kelsey Mitchell's praises are not being sung enough.

Looking at her stats right now, in 10 games, she has had at least 16. Of eight of those 10 games, it's been at least 26 points. The last five games have been at least 27 points. She is unbelievable. And to your credit, we've talked about this before. I think at least this season, she is by and large the best player on the Fever.

I know that the star power probably says it's Caitlin Clark, but you're talking about consistency, consistency, saying healthy and pulling the team to wins. I think Kelsey Kelsey Mitchell does all of that. I love that, Will, because I completely agree. Underappreciated. Praises are not sung nearly enough, cool as a cucumber, consistent as a metronome. Kelsey Mitchell, unbelievable.

I like to call her the microwave because she just scores and bursts. She's the fastest player, fastest guard in the WNBA. Kelsey Mitchell, appreciation to you. Eastern Conference player of the week. Oh, by the way, just recently for the Indiana Fever. How many games in a row with 25 plus points?

Uh, let's see. She had 27 29 29 27 26 30 22 16 26 27 five or six games in a row or something like she and like especially when there's like people in and out of the lineup. Caitlyn Clark, Aaliyah Boston, she doesn't miss games. Kelsey Mitchell. She's consistently scoring the basketball, making clutch shots, making this offense go. Just the epitome of a scorer in the W.

She comes to play and she comes to lead and she does it every single night and you cannot ask for anything else. You can't ask for anything else. Kelsey Mitchell appreciation post. So yeah, I think uh just keep an eye out for the Fever. I think I I do think they're getting better. I really really do.

Um we've talked about the defense, the turnovers. It they have to improve. You're not going to win a WNBA championship if you don't improve those things. But it feels like I don't know. It the the dominating win over the Aces when AJ Wilson is on the floor and Aaliyah Boston plays like she did. Like they can beat anybody.

They can beat anybody and it feels like they can lose to anybody. You don't want to be that and that's why you're around 500. But look out for the fever. All right. Fever going to be just fine. All right.

Hey, we're going to introduce a new segment here and tell me if it's dumb. I think it's going to be great. Sponsorships are a plenty with this, by the way. So, you know how when you get arrested, will you get read your Miranda rights? Well, my name is Dominic Miranda, as you know, and I just thought this has been something I've always wanted to do, like reads your Miranda rights, and you'll kind of see how this goes. And uh we'll we'll see how it goes, but I'm going to start right here.

Number one, you have the right to want a new commissioner of the WNBA. We talked about at the top of the show, Kathy Angelbert spurning Dan Patrick on his show, telling him basically, you can go kick rocks. We're not going to go on your show and address these concerns that the entire WNBA fan base has. We're not going to answer the hard questions on a reputable and a show with integrity like Dan Patrick. It's ridiculous. This is just the latest in a long string of a lack of leadership and accountability, refusing to embrace Caitlyn Clark as the star in the Indiana Fever as the franchise, premier franchise in the WNBA.

You absolutely are justified and have the right to want a new commissioner in the WNBA. Yeah, Dom, I completely agree with this. The utter silence from Kathy is honestly mind-blowing to me. I've grown up a lifelong span sports fan of the NBA, the NFL, both with very notable commissioners and Roger Goodell and Adam Silver. And I had mentioned this on a podcast previously, but let's take Patrick Mahomes or we take Stephen Curry or LeBron James. If any of them were under scrutiny, Adam Silver, Roger Goodell would be sprinting to the press to be like, "We do not condone any of this.

We love our stars. We love our league." And for Kathy, it feels like it's almost just the exact opposite. She sits back, she lets all these narratives build up, and when she has the opportunity to sit down with Dan Patrick, talk about it, be like, "No, we love Caitlin Clark. She is the face of our league. She is the superstar."

Her PR is actually like, "Yeah, we're actually okay. We're going to we're going to take a step back. We're just going to play with our twiddle our thumbs a little bit and kind of let this go." And you're surprised when no one likes you as a commissioner and you're like, "Oh, I I didn't mean to do it." Well, you were actively walking away from talking about the star player that has been under scrutiny for honestly since the minute she stepped into the league. And you have every single opportunity in the world to just be like, "We don't condone this.

We love her." But you don't. And you don't even have to say we love her, but just answer the questions. Like there are hard questions that when you're a legitimate league in professional sports, you have to answer. Yes. Roger Goodell doesn't go on podcasts.

That's okay cuz he just says, "No, I'm not going to do that." But whenever there's a problem, there's a statement, there's a press conference, there's this, there's that, immediately addressed. NBA, another great example. Adam Silver, you can like him or not like him, but he addresses things head on that like you can also see too what it is. Adam Silver, I would say though he has a little bit of controversy. He works with the fans.

He introduced the NBA Cup. He's been open to listening about the fans if they like three-point contest, if they like the All-Star game, all of these things. He works in collaboration because he knows that the fans are the shape of the league. Yeah, if the fans love the league, it's going to continue to blossom. And if you turn your blind and die to your star, the WNBA with its peak stardom and its peak fandom right now, if you don't do just the bare minimum to just protect your star player of the franchise and of the league, people are going to start leaving and I'm not going to be surprised when they do. And this is the time to capitalize on this fandom and this passion for the WNBA.

And it feels like each year there's something like this. And you know who the most reasonable person about all this situation and all this noise has been is Caitlyn Clark. She comes out, she tackles things headon. Again, you can agree, you can disagree, but she talked about it and she put it to rest. And the minute she did, we're done talking about it. You let this fester and fester and it becomes a two-day story.

It becomes a three-day story. It becomes a two week story and then you're saying, "Well, I'm I'm going to defer to my press conference at the All-Star game." Well, now it's it's not going to be about the All-Star game. It's going to be all these other questions. And it feels like you're again, I we can go on this forever, but if Caitlyn Clark, who is the face of the league, has to shoulder the load of the questions that the commissioner herself is literally in position to do. What are we doing?

What are we doing? It's not Caitlyn Clark. She just wants to play basketball. It's not her job. She's constantly put in these situations. And I've said on this show before, she has every right to just not treat the media well.

And she does it over and over. She handles herself with grace, a level head, dignity, addresses things, moves on, tries to make it about basketball. And for some reason, it doesn't that the league will and it it won't. And then the league doesn't do that. It's crazy. Just let the girl just let the girl hoop, man.

That's all. Yeah. Just let her hoop. Hey, you have the right to want a new commissioner in the WNBA. All right, number two. You have the right to be a tad nervous about the Indiana Pacers.

All right, I want to be very clear. I trust Tyrese Hallebertton. I trust Rick Carile, but there has been a lot of activity in the Eastern Conference that have the Pacers gotten passed up. I'm not sitting here saying yes or no. I'm saying the Philadelphia 76ers went and got Jaylen Brown. I'm saying the Washington Wizards even drafted Debansa.

They got Trey Young. Are they a legitimate contender? Probably not. But the Cleveland Cavaliers are getting better. They just went to the Eastern Conference Finals. Where does LeBron James go?

Is he's going to probably be somewhere in the Eastern Conference. The New York Knicks just won the NBA Finals, an NBA championship in New York for the first time in forever. All these teams, there's probably eight to 10 teams in the Eastern Conference who think they can win a playoff series. I mean, you're talking about the Orlando Magic, a really young and interesting core. The Toronto Raptors just got Kawhi Leonard pending everything that's going on there. So, do I believe the Pacers are a top three team in the East or a top four team in the East?

Yes. I didn't even mention the Boston Celtics, by the way. But you have the right to be a tad nervous about it. How's Tyrese Hallebert going to look post Achilles tear, post shingles? How is Ivita Zubots going to fit in to this team? Rick Carile said, "This team's going to look a little bit different via style of play, via personnel."

Again, I want to be very clear. I trust Tyrese. I trust Rick Carile, but you have the right to be a little nervous about the Pacers. You do. And it's really interesting. I, as an avid NBA fan, have not seen the East have such a paradigm of eight to 10 teams that you know for a fact are making the playoffs and then there's just a bottom five teams that you can kind of look to the side about.

But any given day, you can be worried about one through seven, one through eight for these East teams. You talk about the Pistons, the Celtics. Pistons. Yeah. 60 won 60 games. Didn't even mention that.

The one seed. And yes, they're young, but they're only going to get better. And that's going to be the problem with a lot of these teams, especially as you said, AJ Devansa being in the East is a little bit scary. You have Paula Vancer. You have Kate Cunningham. All of these young stars are just hitting their peak now.

And as we've said, Tyres Hallebertton was amazing when he was healthy. Yes, we've lost some pieces since the finals. We've traded for some guys. Some guys are getting older. We have some new young guys in there. It's a lot to expect from the Pacers.

Do we think that it can happen? Yes, obviously. Absolutely. But the stakes are probably higher than they were before, just even two weeks ago. You get the addition of Jaylen Brown on a team that looks legit. Hey, mind you, the 76ers still have an MVP in Joel Embiid.

Sure, his injuries have been uh really problematic, but you have Tyrese Maxi, you have Finals MVP Jaylen Brown, you have MVP Joel Embiid. If that team can stay healthy, I'm honestly more nervous about them than like the Knicks or anybody else. What about Edgecomb, too, dude? Yeah, that we could go on forever. You know what I mean? Yes, he looks insane.

They just drafted Learon Phylon. He had like 30 against us in the summer league. Um, folks, the East is real. It is legit. I know we've had all this debacle about, oh, it's just the West. The West is all the NBA talent.

Not anymore. It is legit. The East is here and the Pacers have to step up to the plate. How many people thought the Spurs were going to roll all over the Knicks and that just didn't happen? I I absolutely did not. The Spurs took down the Thunder.

I'm like, "All right, it's curtains." Not so fast. I didn't even mention the Miami Heat who just got Giannis, dude. Yeah. Okay. There's all these teams believe they can win and they might like and I don't think the Pacers don't have to win 50 60 games to get to the finals.

Okay. They they won 50 when they went to the finals. They weren't the one seed. Nope. Home court is important that first round, I think. But from there, you can beat, you know, they're series for a reason.

And I again, I really do trust Rick Carile. I trust Tyrese Hallebertton to be ready. But how quickly does Visa Zubots fit into what they do? Are they different without, you know, Miles Turner's ability to stretch the floor? What Zubots lacks with that, he makes up for in defense and rebounding, which was a massive part and improvement piece of this team. I think the Pacers can do it.

I think Tyrus Halbertton's the man. I do think Pascalakum is aging. Um, but you have the right to be a tad nervous about the Indiana Pacers. All right, number three. You have the right to be not only apathetic, but pessimistic about the Indianapolis Colts. I want to preface this.

I hope I'm wrong with everything I'm about to say, but there are so many question marks with this team. How's Daniel Jones going to be nine months post Achilles tear? He looked great in OTAAS. Can we expect him to play a full 17g game season? JT wants a new contract. How's he going to look?

Because we lean on him a lot as far as this offense goes. Michael Bman Jr. hits the road. Can Alec Pierce be a number one receiver? Does this offense go through Tyler Warren? Josh DS is still here.

I think the offense is the least of our worries here. But we are relying on a lot of rookies on defense. Sauce Gardner, we're expecting a lot out of him on this defense for what we're paying him and what we paid to get him here as far as draft picks. Tarvarius Ward, concussions are going to catch up to him if this injury bug continues with him. Worried about that situation with Tarvarius Ward. Lot of rookies are expected to step up on this defense.

Nick Cross hits the road. Kenny Moore hits the road. Zire Franklin hits the road. What's the health status of DeForest Buckner on this team? Can Latu Latu take the next step as a firstround edge draft pick who we need to have doubledigit sacks? Oh, by the way, you play eight really tough teams to start this season.

So, all this to say, a lot of question marks. And the reason I say apathetic, too, is because not a lot has changed over 10 years. Haven't won the division since 2014. Chris Ballard has a losing record as the GM. So my point of apathy is that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That's what it feels like the Colts organization is doing.

The pessimism stems from not only that, but a lot of question marks that I just said. So I think you are validated and have the right to be apathetic and pessimistic as far as the 2026 2027 Indianapolis Colts. You ever drive down the interstate and you see a car that's been through hell and you're like, "Wow, it is put together by scrap metal and duct tape and you're just hoping for the best." That is the absolute definition of what the Colts are. You know that it's messed up. You don't really want to spend to get it fixed.

So, you're just going to slap some tape on it and let it drive down the road. And you look from afar and you're like, "Wow, that is a mess." But some people it works, man. And I uh yeah, I I need something different from the Colts. I've been a longtime uh Colts fan. Chris Ballard has been subpar.

I can think as my best positive uh attribute for him. Uh since we've lost obviously Andrew Luck, it has just been rough to keep your stars around. We talked about Jonathan Taylor needing a new contract. The fact that we are still even considering not giving that to him is just already basically all I need to know. You give so much money to Daniel Jones, you give so much money to Alec Pierce and to Forest Buckner and S Gardner. And unfortunately, what those stars have all kind of had in common is that people think we paid a little too much for them.

If you're overspending for subpar players, the rest of your team is going to be subpar, even less than that, because you don't got the money to spend. And so, I don't know. I I don't see a bright future for the Colts for a while, unfortunately. And it hurts me to say that as I've grown up watching them, but I I don't really have much to say. Yeah, I love that analogy you said because it's true. And I again, I hope I'm wrong.

I want the Colts to be good, but between the schedule they saw and like yes, we have the 8-2 start to the year last year, but if you really look at it objectively, easy easier schedule that first half of the season and even before Daniel Jones's injury, the wheels were starting to come off. And remember how many of those games were like a one possession win that could have gone either way. Could have gone either way like against the Cardinals or like the Dolphins or like you know I it look Daniel Jones and Shane Stacken together exceeded expectations. I I think the offense can be kind of good. You got Lamar Jackson, possibly Ma Patrick Mahomes because of the torn ACL situation, and CJ Strad to start the season for a young Colts defense. Yes, you have Sauce Garner.

Yes, you have Trevarious Ward. All right. Yes, you have Cam Binham. Three guys that I think are very, very, very good. But who's the leader on this defense? Yes, those guys.

It's sauces, you know, year and a half in here at Indianapolis. Deforest Buckner, how's his health going to be? He can lie lie to you. Lot you take the next step. I don't know. I just I have a bad feeling about it.

I want to be wrong. If our if I am kill me in the comments or whatever, but like I uh I think you have the right to be pessimistic and apathetic. If our goal is to kind of, you know, not necessarily have a ton of defensive stops and just try to outscore teams, I I like I like every other team's chances over us. Like, sure, I know that we brutal we have a I'm not going to say that we're I'm not going to sit back and be like, "Oh, our offense is horrible." It's okay. Sure.

Like, it is it is a solid, decent offense, but if our whole goal is like, "Oh, we're just going to go out and score 35 points a game and allow 35 points a game." Guys, it's it's not going to happen. I love our team, but we are subpar at best. I love Jonathan Taylor to to the ground offensive player of the year. He is outstanding. But other than that, these guy like being objective, I think these guys are okay.

Yeah. Maybe, you know, the hold up with Jonathan Taylor, it's like, you know, Chris Ballard, man, you're you're we're playing for your job right now. Like, are we going to give you the keys to make this contract extension? Not saying that he doesn't deserve it. I'm saying he 100% deserves it. But if we're looking at this 30,000 foot view, even though the Colts can pay a running back, are they in the position to do so when they may not be that's a luxury position to buy?

It is right. And like he deserves it. I'm not saying he doesn't. And he is a bright spot of this Colts organization here. But like let's look at this legitimately. Like what if things go really south and do you want him tied up?

Like maybe and I I I don't know. I just Yeah, I really was hesitating to bring this up, but if you think about subpar teams with amazing running backs typically means that they leave. You think of Saquon with the Giants, he left. You think of Christian McCaffrey with the Panthers, he left. Derrick Henry with the Titans. He left.

If we continue down the road, guys, I really, really, really would not like to see Jonathan Taylor be bright in another possible uh city, but it is a legit chance cuz it is just how it continues to go. All these teams, they don't want to spend their money on a solidified player. So, they're going to take a risk and trade for a few picks, try to maybe start the rebuild that Chris Ballard has been hesitant to do for the next for the last decade. But, uh, let's just hope for the best because I would not like to see Jonathan Taylor in any other universe. Hope for the best. I mean, look, we don't want this to happen.

I want to go out on the record and say that I don't want the I want the Colts to win every game and win a Super Bowl and see the city come alive, but I'm not going to hold my breath. And that's what I'll leave you with. All right, that's enough of us yapping here. At the beginning, we got Matt Carroll coming up. We're going to talk all things basketball. Nate Spangle will also be joining us.

So, take a listen. to subscribe, like, follow. Appreciate you guys. And uh Matt Carroll episode of Get in Sports. We liked him so much we decided to have him back. Former Purdue basketball player, participant on a popular dating show you may see soon.

One of just four players ever to play under both Matt Painter and Jean Katy, basketball savant, and dear friend of the show, Matt Carol, first repeat guest on Get In Sports. Well, it's great to be here again. Good to see you guys. Let's go. It's an honor for you to be here with us and uh we really enjoyed your sports takes last time primarily talking about Purdue basketball and I think to give our viewers listeners also Nate Spangle is here. Nate love having Nate as well but I think to give our listeners and viewers an even clearer idea of uh who you are.

You're itching to get into sports broadcasting full time. So I'd love to get those systems in place like you're beginning to do that. Can you walk us through that epiphany and kind of where you are in that process? Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for asking.

So, what happened was when I graduated from uh Purdue, I actually wanted to get into broadcasting. I was recruited very heavily by UCLA uh in high school and um Steve Lavin was there at the time and he was the one that recruited me heavily and wanted me be a part of that team and eventually uh he unfortunately got fired from UCLA. But then he went to ESPN and so we kept in touch because he was assigned the Big 10 and he would come through multiple times a year and so we would talk, we'd catch up and all of a sudden uh when I graduated I thought you know what I want to get into broadcasting and I was in the booths with him and on trucks you know watching you know behind the scenes stuff and got a chance to really get uh kind of a front row seat to all of it and that's what I wanted to do. But then life took me in a different direction and all of a sudden, you know, about eight months ago, I went on this show and while I was on there, I kept getting people saying, "Matt, are you in broadcasting?

Are you in hosting? You should be if you're not." And all of a sudden, I'm thinking, "Wow, this is here we are, you know, here's this maybe there's this door opening." And I just had a conversation with Doug Mason from uh the show when I was out in LA a couple weeks ago. We talked about how sometimes life will reveal uh opportunities for you that you didn't realize maybe that you were good at until later or when you're ready for something like that. And all of a sudden I here we are and um I signed with an agent with uh an agent out in LA and um yeah, she represents a lot of very uh good exathletes, coaches, and uh interesting hosts and broadcasters and um so I'm excited about all these doors opening and the opportunities and look forward to it.

Yeah, the ex alete, ex-coach piece is interesting because I mean a lot of them have said it's not as easy as it looks to go from playing because you have all this knowledge but then to like articulate that in a TV ready or radio ready way. You seem very good at it. I want to say I appreciate that. Uh but Steve Lavin was electric on TV by the He's he's got not only a great voice, but he's also a great storyteller. And some of the great color commentary commentators out there are are just really great storytellers. And so he's got that right on top of the knowledge.

And actually, I would say that people like Steve Lavin are kind of like a a dying breed unfortunately and coaching. Uh so much of it's become so heavy on the business and transactional and naturally so given given where we're at with the environment. But he's one of the greats, you know, I compare him to compare him to like Phil Jackson, right? He's very philosophical and really gets into kind of life lessons when we're talking about uh just basketball and sports in general. So, it's one of the reasons we get along so well. But yeah, I appreciate that.

No, it's uh it's funny. Night one when I was on the show, uh one of the guys pulled me aside. So, a little backstory here. Um, I was with um with the guys were for those of you who have seen the show before. We were at the at the mansion out in LA and we're all standing outside kind of by the pool area and Jesse Palmer called us in and we're walking in and Jesse, who's a big guy, he's kind of stout, right? He played for Notre Dame then in in the NFL and he's not a small guy.

And as we're walking in, he kind of did a double take when he looked at me and then he did like a bro nod, you know, and so respect. And I I broeded back, of course. But later on, one of the guys said, "Hey, do you know Jesse?" And I was like, "No." He goes, "Well, it sure looked like we you knew him." And or he knew you.

And so, uh, it's funny because then he said, "Well, Matt, you know, we were all sitting there saying we thought he was going to say, "Hey, plot twist. Matt's co-hosting this season with me." And so, I kept hearing those kinds of things. And at one point I go, maybe I should start paying attention to this, right? And so here we are. That's really awesome.

Do you have a specific area of sports broadcasting you're most interested in or would fit your skill set the best? Because I mean, you have studio hosting, you have color commentating, you have sideline reporting, a lot of different podcasting, there's so many different areas. I I I hesitate to to put myself in any one of those categories only. I I feel like I'm better on camera, right? So anything that's hosting whether it's in studio or interviewing u those are my natural strengths right even right now we're podcasting and uh so anything where we're kind of interviewing talking convers having a conversation about sports in general is uh one of my bigger strengths when I when I think about we're talking about Purdue basketball and I think about some of the great um playbyplay and color commentators right now I would put Robbie Hmel up there oh yeah really good and so um dude Dude, that clip of uh when Purdue makes it made it to the final four and he's like crying.

I interviewed him shortly after that and he it was very cool how genuine he was. But he is among the best going right now. He's he's great and he's also a great human being too which makes it really nice. But yeah, he don't you love that like when people that you see out in public or on media and like then you meet them in person, you're like you're just salt of the earth. Great guy. Good people.

It makes it even better, right? Yeah. and and he's worked very hard and he didn't just all of a sudden arrive. He's been doing this for over a decade. Yeah. And the other thing about that is uh it takes some practice.

Like I think that uh Tom Brady for instance, we might have talked about this before, but Tom Brady's like you are electric on the field. You get in the booth and it's a it's like a new game. to like hit your stride and get your personality and your jokes and and you think about like I think at first people thought uh like Tony Romo when he would call out what he thought was going to happen and then people kind of start to get annoyed with that and you kind of have to reinvent yourself at times. Well, that's just you can't you can't always win. Also, I people are really hard critics. You have to just keep moving the bar, keep keep exceeding expectations, right?

And it is a different like just because you are a diehard fan or you have a lot of knowledge of the sport being able to carry yourself and be entertaining like dude I think playbyplay is one of like the craziest skill sets to have like someone who can like see and in real time distill what is happening on the field and think of like the um the adjectives. One thing about Dom when he was when you were doing Playbyplay and when other people I've heard are just like the way they pull these adjectives out of like thin air to talk about, you know, the the crowd goes electric and but they use different words for it. I think I mean Vince Scully used to have like I mean I would listen to him read the phone book. That guy was electric. But I'm interested to hear your thoughts Matt and where you were going on Robbie Hmel because to Nate's point too, you have to get a feel. You don't want to talk over your playby-play guy.

You want to give insight when you have a chance. You don't want to keep talking while another play is. There's just so many of these nuances that people don't understand. I mean, I was talking to a guy who didn't even understand that there was a difference between a playbyplay and a color commentator. He's like, "Oh, I thought these guys were just having a conversation." And it's way deeper than that.

But why do you think Robbie is so good at Well, and it's changing, right? I mean, we used to have sideline reporters as well. And even that's become I I don't want to say dying breed, but it's it's definitely changing. we now have three people sitting in the booth or whether it be at the football game where it's a booth or whether it be at a basketball game where they're on the floor but now you're seeing especially in the final four for example where you've got three commentators a playbyplay and then two guys who are doing color commentating so it's even more nuanced when you're thinking about three guys trying to figure it out but typically it's like no other it's like it's anything else where it's a team and you're having to figure each other out and you talk to the guys who do it at the top at the you know at the top of the top they'll tell you that they're guys that it's a real struggle with, you know, you're trying to figure each other out even on air.

Yeah. And then afterwards where you talk to other guys who are saying that Yeah. It's just, you know, it's almost like that perfect pass where he hands off a comment. He kind of leaves it for you to say something and goes back and forth. There's a good banter. Yeah.

And so the greats know how to do that really well. And you see that in in football, you see it in basketball. It's a little bit more, I think, to your point, uh, with Romo in in Tom Brady. I think you observe it and see it more in football because there's so much conversation happening for so long. It's not happening as quickly as it does in basketball, but people don't appreciate how much goes into it in basketball. So, coming back to Robbie Hmel, what makes him so great is the fact that first of all, he's got a great voice, which helps, and he also has a great understanding of the game.

And so, and he played at the highest level, too. So, he played overseas, he played in the NBA, and then he played at Purdue. And he's experienced success at the highest level, but he's also experienced uh some hardships. Yeah. And he had to have surgeries and Yeah. things like that.

So, he knows what it means to be at the top and then also, you know, have to sit the bench a little bit, go through injuries. So, he's able to relate to a lot of areas of the game. And I think that's a big part of being a good announcer is not only storytelling, but being able to relate to those that are on the floor. Yeah. Well, I mean, it gives you credibility, too, right? There's no question about that.

And people do forget Robbie Hmel was a baller and injuries really really derailed. Uh I think he could have been a really good NBA player too and it just uh just didn't work out there. But uh who do you think the best playbyplay I know this is like a this is an everchanging conversation and like people's rankings changed. I'm just interested in what you think as a viewer of sports. Who do you think the best playbyplay is going any sport right now? I mean I there's so many I feel like we're lucky and we're in a a really good age of broadcasting.

Well, I I think I would separate them from like the characters of the game. Yeah. And the people are really good to listen to, right? So, Nance, you know, you can never go wrong with him, right? But then we have uh the upand cominging, you know, guys, or I don't even know if they're up and coming anymore, but some of these guys who are um you know, the great color commentators right now, especially in football, um who's taking over all podcasting and you know, he's here in Indiana. Yeah.

Pat McAfee. Pat McAfee. Oh, okay. Okay. There you go. I mean, yeah, I was going to ask that.

I was going to ask, what do you feel about uh alt streams like like cast like the Manning cast or the McAfee? Like, what do you think about watching the same product, but with different commentary? I'm like a traditionalist where I I have to have the game. I feel like I'm 60 years old, but I just have to have the game broadcast on because I love it. I have viewed the Manning cast. I've enjoyed it.

I have viewed the all cast of like the national championship with Pat McAfee. I have enjoyed it. Uh it's too much like off like I need full attention to the game discussion. Maybe I'm in the minority. I think there's clearly an audience for it because people watch. Well, you also have bar stool.

I mean, you you get to a point where Yeah. So, it's a lot of what's it's become entertainment like anything else. And so, I think that we're in a we're in a streaming world right now and and a lot of the sports right now. It's like anything else. People talk about where they get their news from. Fox, CNN, all that kind of stuff.

Now it's uh you know it's uh Twitter it's meta it's all those things. So I think the same thing has happened with sports where we're now in an era where sports has become less about me waking up early in the morning and I'm going to sound like I'm 70 now too where you're watching ESPN watching you know waiting for the top 10 where now my life. Yeah it was my life where now we're we're sorry where now we're like Steuart Scott right you'd wake up and you couldn't wait to hear what he had to say. That was literally the reason I got into this was Steuart Scott top 10 would be late for the bus going to school because I had to watch it. Watch it. It was awesome.

Dude, do you think there's a world in which people will tune in and watch us altcast the state championship? Yes. Like it's like we buy the we buy the stream from the HSA and it's just like us sitting here like watching state basketball and hanging out. Let's manifest that. Yeah, that would be fun. like especially at the high school ranks like that's not happening right now.

And I think they saw it with these great personalities in national sports that why wouldn't why not why wouldn't people watch and be like this is kind of cool. This is like making this feel big in Indiana, right? Especially Yeah, dude. And it's like I feel like if they did that, you could find sponsors and replace the like $25 state championship fee. Yeah. Like it's people are people are salty about that.

I'd have to pay to watch it. I mean, I could turn on Chuck Freebie in Northern Indiana and watch all four state championship games for free. I don't think you can do that anymore. I cannot do that anymore. I don't know. How many people do you think are spending $20?

Like, let's even say it was a,000. If there's if that's 20,000 in revenue, do you think you could sell 20,000 in sponsorship of like a really fun cast? Yes. Where%, you know, like you're bringing it and you're activating sponsors and it's like we build the like um I don't know like the Dadwater uh high school state championship cave and it's just like us hanging out. We're not on site. You probably maybe like not alcohol.

Ooil would uh certainly be able to lend itself to an on-site situation if we wanted. But I almost like the cave situation. Yeah. Where it's like you're watching it, you can see the high school and you're like talking about, you know, where this kid's going to college and you know, and it's just I do think that that's a piece where again you put a lot on a few amount of broadcasters for like the state championship and it's tough for them to know everything about all the kids. Yeah. Um, well, also it's very like structured robotic.

Like I like the, you know, guard down banter like you're in a bar situation. Yeah. And it's like you can't be like uh candid. You can't be like real and raw and authentic and like laugh and joke and have fun. Which there's a Don't get me wrong, there is a place for that. Dom is very traditionalist.

I if you can't tell, I I figured this out. But here, you know, let me interject this. This is a very interesting thing. when you watch certain games, right? Let's take the Big 10. There are games where you can tell when you're watching certain games that there's great announcing happening and and others where it's it's lacking a little bit.

And it's not necessarily it's not me saying that one is necessarily they're bad announcers and but there is a difference like anything else where there are talented broadcasters and when you're listening to them not only how they use their voice but their cadence and how they view the game how the dialogue that's happening and then we're talking about Hmel and how he's able to see the game or even Tony Romo where he's able to guess what's going to happen and all of a sudden you begin to realize how difficult it is in real time to do some of those things and you you've exper experience that. So, you not only have to understand the game, you have to understand the cadence of how to speak and what the what's going on and how to communicate that in a way that it's a skill set that people go to school for. In fact, and and so, but just like anything else, I do believe that there are people out there that there are talented people in sports.

That's the obvious thing that there's talented artists, there's talented businessmen, and there's also talented broadcasters. And I think that's right now at the highest form of sports right now is that some of these guys have risen to the top. It's not just a voice. It's not just, you know, entertainment when it comes to certain things they're saying, but it's also about how they're able to carry a broadcast overall. Yeah. Because it's diffic it's so much more difficult than you think.

I mean, like the way Gus Johnson and Joel Clatt are electric combination right there. Gus is very good. Mike Breen, the way he meets the moment in the NBA finals. Okay. Iron Eagle and the you talk about the threeperson cast and nobody ever talks over each other. Iron Eagle, Grant Hill, Bill Rafter.

Grant Hill is unbelievable, right? Like super impressive. And I think Mike Trico is the best best going right now. Honestly, the way he does Sunday night football and he can do the Olympics, he can do the Kentucky Derby. He did, you know, NBA basketball when he was on ESPN. You talk about a guy who is, you know, very versatile, Mike Tarico.

But well, I was just thinking about Bill Rafferty. Yeah. And I mean, think about how we now have come to know some of these guys because of their comments like take him to the whole big fella. Onions. I was literally thinking onions. Onion.

It's electric. And he's like 80 I think. Like he's not young. Yeah. He's he's not young. And the stories about him when they're traveling with them are legendary about there was a great story I was t So Joe White.

Yeah. So he is now the voice of I believe the Dodgers. Oh, okay. Or Joe Davis. Joe Davis. Thank you.

Joe Davis. No, that's okay. He's he's really really good. Joe has got a the voice of like an angel, right, when it comes to broadcasting. But Joe is talking about Salt of the Earth guys. Joe's a really good guy.

Um he was in town a couple years ago actually doing a game with Steve Lavin. Oh. And he was a Butler game. And so we actually went to dinner afterwards and I had breakfast the next day with Joe and he is just the nicest human you'll ever meet. Yeah, but we were talking a lot about this and he brought up a great Bill Rafferty story where he woke up one night or one day uh ready to go to uh to the airport and he couldn't find Bill and he was like where's Bill? And he gets to the airport all worried about him thinking well maybe you know I got to get to the airport.

I'm going to miss my flight but you know maybe hopefully he you know hopefully he makes it. and he was already sitting at the gate and he just looked at me and you know said something funny to to Joe, but he just said that uh he's just a great guy and a great character, one of the great characters of the game. Yeah. And th those guys that I think pretty much everyone we named feels like a genuine genuine person and that makes it all the more better. Like Jay Bellis is another one by the way. Oh man, he he's great.

Schulman is fantastic. I mean we talk about the watch shot. I mean yeah this is just good stuff. So anyway, I didn't I didn't How old is Dick Vital? Let's look that up. He's getting older, too, man.

I didn't I didn't know we were gonna go this far into sports broadcasting. I mean, I this is like my guilty pleasure obviously with what I do. So, I love it. But, uh Dick Vital is now 87 87 years old. If he he looks and acts younger, so does Rafferty. Like, it's just it keeps you young, I imagine, too.

Well, and then let's talk real quick since we're on this about what I believe to be one of the greatest uh foresome. I think it's four, right? When you talk about uh Charles Barkley, when you talk about those guys in the the NBA, now we're talking like studio hosting studio hosting master class TNT. Ernie Johnson, the way he controls those guys in a very not annoying way. And even when they get off, you know, kilter, he reels them back in so easily. It is what makes it so good.

Like I I it it when that show goes away, hopefully no time soon, there will be none like it ever again. And it's fantastic. Yeah. Ernie Johnson, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Shaq. Yeah. Just electric content, bro.

And they have some like off-the-wall comments. And they let him go. They let him go because, you know, it's like malicious. You know who uh who won the biggest from that show uh with Final Four in Indie was Harry and Izzy's. Like didn't they shoot that show with Harry and Izzy's right in the backdrop like when they were on Georgia Street marketing. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's like dude iconic. You can't like the entire world. I feel like every St. Elmo wins too. Everyone goes to St.

Everyone descends upon that restaurant. Every time Indie hosts like St. Elmo just free puff. It's like the place to be. Search volume of what is in shrimp cocktail has to just go through the roof. You want to hear a funny story about shrimp cocktail?

So, I'm a freshman at Purdue and I have no idea what St. Elmo's is, right? Grew up in Indiana. So, for me, it was the first time we went and we get there, we this was a tradition we always had. We'd always go when when we had a game in India, we'd always go to St. Elmo.

And we're in a room and a private room. And one of the guys, one of the seniors goes, "Hey, Matt, you should take double of the shrimp cocktail on your It's just so good. You have no idea. You need to try this out." And me being this naive freshman, I'm like, "Sure." Yeah.

Whatever you say. Oh, you're really going to let me have extra. Thanks, man. I took a bite and I I think I literally almost fell to the ground. Like, it cleared out my sinuses, all the things. If you go in aggressive and not knowing, I mean, it'll just it will eat you a liar.

If you can fully get someone that has no idea what's coming, it is just aggressive bite. It is so great. Cuz a lot of people like know that it's going to be spicy, so they brace themselves. But if you can truly get someone that's like, "Oh, like why would it why would shrimp cocktail be what they're known for?" and they just like take a huge bite and you're like, "Got him." Yeah.

Anyway, all right. Well, uh I'm happy we set the table with sports broadcasting there, but let's uh let's put it to use. Okay. We talked about this last time. We forecasted kind of what Braden Smith and Top and Ren where they would go and um we'll get to them in a second, but just overall impressions of the NBA draft. I know the top five was a huge point of conversation.

Deansa goes number one. interested in how he fits in Washington and the rest kind of falling into place, but what was your kind of biggest takeaway as a viewer of the NBA draft? It feels like um I mean Peterson going too kind of shocked me for for instance, I know he's very talented, but you know, the fit is interesting and um his offthe- court stuff very interesting, but uh what what did you make of the whole thing? I actually thought there weren't that many surprises. I thought the top three was was exactly what we thought it would be. Um, you may have argued that Peterson would go number one, right?

That kind of thing, but it wasn't a surprise as to who the top three were. I think time will tell what the draft will be. Right now, drafts are often times graded in in retrospect, right? In in the moment, we're always talking about how incredible this the the draft classes and how it's going to go far and all, but time will tell. Yeah. And I think oftentimes the draft is graded not just in the one through 13, but how the guys after that do.

And I think that it'll be interesting to see who the surprise is out of this draft beyond the top guys that we've been talking about. I'm I'm curious to see how Caleb Wilson does. Yeah. With Chicago. Yeah. And I've seen some clips of him in practice already.

He looks very very good. Um Peterson already had 28 and of course he did. Yeah. In in in the summer league. So I think that it'll be interesting and it's interesting too. I'm curious to see what you guys think.

But when you think about top uh picks in the draft, I don't I don't know if I would want to be the number one draft pick in the draft because often times those guys there's a lot of burden that comes with it. Yeah. Are you going to live up to that? And so some guys can handle it, others can't. And if you don't live up to the hype, it can often times feel like that's all you talk about when you talk about a player, right? So I think that that will be interesting to see where all this goes for this draft class.

But I think that the top three will end up having great NBA careers. Yeah, without a doubt. I think that they have the talent and the skill set for this kind their their way of playing will translate very well into the NBA. And I think Peterson has all these comparisons depending on who you talk to. Some people say, "Oh, he's the next Kobe Bryant, which I think is is, you know, well, time will tell." Maybe by skill set, but maybe not by mindset or or very well put or work ethic, right?

And time will tell. But I think we're we're having those kinds of conversations of talent levels. Uh when you look at AJ Deansa and his upside, he's a massive massive talent, not only in size. I mean, he's what 69 610. Uh some people may even say a little taller. So the his ability to get to the rim and then Cameron Boozer, what's interesting for me is that he's got the size, but he's a little bit less athletic, right?

And like is he going to be your MVP of the NBA? I don't think so. I think Darren Peterson, AJ Deansa have that upside. I don't think Cameron Boozer can be the best player on your team and you win an NBA championship. How about that? Yeah.

Okay. Here's a question for you. Uh I want I want to do a little thought experiment. You're talking about how you don't want to be number one. I might argue you don't want to be one, two, or three. If you think about the top five players in the NBA right now, would you say uh again this is like a quick Google but like SGA women Donic and Giannis.

Yeah. Okay. By the way, go back to that list for me. Yeah. How many of those are actually foreigners? Four of them, right?

Or all of them? Uh is SDA SJ is not but the other four are all foreigners. Look at you guys. Come on now. We talked about that last time and how but four out of five. Uh so obviously you know WBY number one overall pick but the other four not number one overall picks.

In fact if I am remembering this correct were any of them I think all of them were outside the top 10. Maybe you might have to check me on that, but I'll have to check. No, no, no. Luca, Luca was third. Oh, Luka was third. Luka, but Jokic and um Giannis for sure were outside the top 10.

Giannis, what when do you think that Giannis was? What draft round? What pick? Don't Google it. I didn't. I believe it's 13th that 15th.

15th. That was close. 15th. When do you think that uh Joic was drafted? I'm pretty sure he was a second rounder, wasn't he? Dude, yes.

41st. That's crazy. And uh then when do you think SGA? Uh that feels like a 14 15 situation. 11. 11.

Okay. So it's like you don't know. It's like top three guys. You never know if they're going to Well, Donovan Mitchell, another one that wasn't, you know, this crazy high pick. Well, and that that goes to show you so much of what sports and and basketball is. It's about a fit into the system, right?

And we can talk about Braden Smith when we talk to the words we're talking about. Tyrese. What? What? What? Tyrese was a 13th or 12th pick.

Yeah. Like come on. It just goes to show. Yes, you're going to have like the WebMes and you're gonna have Luca or LeBron. I mean, you have those kinds of guys, but after that it really turns into a fit. It turns into the system.

It turns into who can stay injuryfree, right? That's such a big thing. I mean I mean Joel Embiid, great player can't stay healthy, right? And uh you talk about having the number one pick, a lot of pressure, not only on the the guy, but the team. Sometimes they overthink it. Like let's talk about the Cavs drafting Anthony Bennett first overall.

And that was just a disaster. Like never should have happened. Well, well, here's the thing, too. Let's talk about Cooper Flag for a second, right? So here we got we have a guy who's arguably a generational talent and in a different kind of way than LeBron was, but he was expected to come in and do things that at his age, he was very very young when he got drafted. At his age, he's expected to perform against guys who are much older, much more experienced.

And it's and it goes to prove how incredible he is because of how well he did and how well he performed. He basically did it. But here's the thing is that unless you are like a LeBron James body type because he was mature in body and mind beyond his years, you're asking a very young player to come in because the NBA is when you get drafted these days, you're very young. Back when you know 20 years ago, you're getting drafted as a a junior and a senior. Yeah. Where now we're talking about guys who would have skipped college if they could.

So here we're talking about very young guys who are expected to come in and take over like 18 19 years old. Like how old was Cooper Flag when he was drafted? Well, people forget he reclassified actually to get to Duke quicker. So, I mean, I'm pretty sure 18 on the back. I think he was 18. So, he's 18.

Like, your your star player, generational talent, is probably going home and like keeping his snap streaks alive. Yeah. Like he's, you know, he's like worried about like you've got LeBron raising a family with kids and like he gets home from the game, it's like, "Oh, yeah." Like hitting his got to keep his streaks going. That's a good point you make too that the expectations were so high for an 18-year-old and and the NBA drafts largely out of potential, but he was rare where he was very complete as a player and that's what made him so attractive and he met all those and Khan um what's his last name? Khan Kipple or whatever for sure.

I don't know if that's how you say it but uh he was unreal too. It's crazy that Duke didn't win a national championship with those two, but well, and here's the other point that I think is important is that you look at guys like Steph Curry. Yeah. Another another 10th pick. He had to prove himself over time to become what we know him as today. But it also had to do with these guys get drafted and they're just young guys.

Seventh. He had to develop into the body that he now has. When you get when you actually go and watch Steph Curry in person, he's actually pretty he's bigger than you think he. Yeah, he is. But when he got drafted, he's this small guy, right? But when he got drafted, he was very thin and we viewed him as kind of he almost looked like a little kid out there, right?

So that's right, baby. So the point here is that these guys get drafted and often times they're projects that take multiple years for them to to actually develop into the players that they have become that we've known them to be. So with that, I think that when you're in the top three draft picks and you have that massive set of expectations put on you, it takes time to develop into what you're supposed to. And so and to have the mindset that we then attribute to the LeBron that now what they have, right? It's a mental strength. When you talk about the NBA season, it's a marathon.

82 games and that's just the regular season. If you have you include the training camp preseason and you make the postseason, that's an incredible toll on your body. Crazy, too, because the Pacers, I remember, started on April 10th, and their last game when they went to the finals, game seven, was June 23rd. We're talking about two full three full months of extra basketball. Yeah. You know what I mean?

That's pretty crazy when you think about it. And think about this. My my college roommate was supposed to be an NFL player and his body fell apart. He had he was a he was a tight end and he had so many concussions he had to stop playing. Oh jeez. And he sat down with his doctor once and he said, "You know, doc, the hardest part for me is that when I look out and I watch football on Sunday, I know I'm just as good as those guys."

And the doctor said, "Well," he said, "Mike, the difference is that their bodies were able to put up with it and yours wasn't." Yeah. And so when you look at the NBA, it's the same thing. LeBron, look at the longevity of that body. Well, just the investment into his body, right? I mean, look at what happened to guys like Kobe where he his body put up with him and all of a sudden one day that Achilles snaps.

Yeah. And then all of a sudden it was a very tough path forward. So a lot of these guys, it's not just the talent, it's how long your body can actually withstand the pounding. And Tom Brady, I mean, he's known for the TB12 diet and played into his 40s, whereas there was a steep cliff for guys like Pton Manning, Drew Brees, just kind of fell unbelievable careers, but just they reached a wall and it I mean, Eli Manning too, just kind of fell off there. But yeah, this is really interesting. This is wild like the uh the cliff.

It's like you can be at the pinnacle and then like one year it's like, oh [ __ ] I mean Peyton Manning was unreal with the Broncos and then just wasn't really just kind of just kind of fell. It's what we don't appreciate what LeBron is doing just how incredible it is. 100%. Like if even if you don't like him or his antics or whatever, like you cannot not be impressed, dude. I think he's going to have a Tom Brady character arc after he retires. I like Tom Brady.

I he did not have a personality. I felt like he was horrible and I I did not like him. He gets even I think when he got to the Bucks and he kind of like started to be a little more public facing and open. You're like hammered after they won the Super Bowl. I think that really when he threw the when he threw the threw the thing and then it's like getting carried off. I mean, that was that was the first moment and I was like, uh, he's one of us.

Come on now. Well, but you know, here's what's interesting. Let's go back to the broadcasting piece. We talk about a guy who was everything we can imagine when you think about a prototypical NFL quarterback, right? Yeah. And and we also forget, by the way, he was not the top draft pick.

He was a guy who had it developed as well. Seventh, sixth round, seventh round. So you're talking about guys who over time what comes out is the mental strength, the work ethic, those are complimentary to the talent already there. But um when you think about who he became after when he retired goes to show you that broadcasting circling back is not as easy as you think it is. He had to train and had to get better. People were not pleased with him at first.

In the beginning it was almost awkward, right? And now he's very good. So it goes to show you. Yeah. It's credit to him too for for keeping to work at it and you know it's Tom Brady so of course he is going to work. I I feel like we could talk all day long about uh about different stuff like that but I know there are some other interesting topics that Dom wants to do now.

What are we doing? Okay so Braden Smith I want to hear your thoughts on this. Drafted 38th overall traded to the Pacers. What do you make of Braden Smith's fit with the Indiana Pacers? It feels like this is going to set him up better than a lot of other places would. Well, I think the first part is that he gets to come home.

So, there's going to be a very forgiving crowd and a very a crowd that's going to be behind them the whole time, which is good, bro. He's gonna single-handedly sell out the Noblesville Arena. You know what? Like, all of a sudden, you go from, okay, it's like a fun family event and now you're you're watching Braden Smith play. Like, the town of Noblesville has to be absolutely ecstatic, like pumped up. Uh, for sure, right?

Like, yeah. I mean, and people I think have this confusion where, you know, and we got a lot of comments on our video. We were talking about Braden Smith, where I do believe at some point in his career, he can be a rotational NBA player depending on if he's going to be a pest like T. J. McConnell and just focus his all his energy on being able to guard at the NBA level. But don't misconrue what we're saying.

I don't believe it's going to happen in one to two years. Like, he's going to have to do his time in the G-League and and the Pacers are in a championship window. like they're not going to do him any favors here just because he's from Indiana, right? He's got to earn it. Yeah. I think one thing that right now everyone's saying is maybe he'll be the sixman.

Maybe he'll take that spot from TJ McConnell. I think that's we're we're getting ahead of ourselves. He needs to go in there and learn from someone like TJ McConnell. Yes. Actually T. J.

McConnell has actually proven that there's a path forward for someone like Braden Smith. He said before he's just going to outwork people. He's going to he's going to get in your grill. He's going to annoy you. And like he told himself he's going to be the hardest working person on the floor. Yeah.

I think what Smith right now needs to go in with a mentality of I'm going to learn and I'm going to find my spots as they come. So McConnell was able to prove that the the mentality if you have it and the strength of you being able to overcome not well let's say being undersized and and not being as as talented as maybe some of these other guys when it comes to the skill sets that we now attribute to the greatest NBA players. But I I think that with him, the biggest thing that's going to be the question mark right now is not whether or not he's an elite passer. That's obvious. It's about whether or not he's going to be able to defend at the highest level. Yeah, that's always going to be the question mark at his size and whether or not he's going to be able to knock down that open shot because when you've got guys like Hallebertton and other guys on that team, he does not need to go in there and be better than those guys.

He need to go he needs to go in there and actually distribute the ball well to them, set them up, and then when he gets open, knock that down knock down that shot. He's actually a better shooter coming into the league than McConnell was. 100% agree. Yes. So, I think that he needs to just fit in well with the system, allow the game to come to him and not need to go in there saying, "I need to become T. J.

McConnell and win that spot, but be patient with myself." And I think that's the team to do it because he's such a hometown hero that they will give him that time to be able to grow. I think that he has a chance to win uh most G-League jerseys sold. You know what I'm saying? You know, like I don't know what the stat is for that, but like I got to imagine there's going to be a lot of Braden Smith, Noblesville, boom, Jersey soul. I agree.

And I'll take one. I'm gladly I will I will rep it with pride. And to your point, he has the mindset to do exactly what you're saying. He's never he's been the most like shown the most humility on every team he's on and he he is pass first. And I think you're absolutely he's a high IQ guy. Exactly.

He he everything you're saying like I I know Braden Smith knows that this is going to be a process for sure. I do also want to say if we go back and check the tape, who was the idiot that said, "Why is Braden Smith and TKR working out with the Pacers? They don't even have a first round pick." Like that guy. Would that be Would that be you? That was that was me.

Guilty. So, fun fact, too. Uh so Chad Buchanan, Pacers GM, lives in Westfield and uh his son played AAOU basketball with Braden Smith and Ryan Carr, who used to be in the front office at the Pacers as well, now is the general manager of IU basketball, his son played with uh Braden Smith. So family, friends there. I don't know if that had everything to do with it, but it did. It certainly didn't hurt, I don't think.

I mean, dude, it all And if you have a I mean, you didn't have a pick anyway. Do I think Braden Smith is better than Cam Jones? Yes, I do. So, I don't think it was a problem at all for you to trade and come here and he's going you you're giving Braden Smith the best chance to succeed in the NBA. So, I you know, I just keep going back to I want to study the economic impact of this draft pick for the town of Nolesville. Yeah, like I I really think that he will sell.

I mean, he's right there. He's going to have a fan club and like you're absolutely right. What's the average attendance for Noblesville? Boom. And we can we can track that. Well, but here's the thing I would say about Braden Smith.

He does not look like an NBA player walking through an airport. Once he crosses that line, he solves problems. Yes. And I think that the the the future of the NBA is can you fit in with an elite skill and solve problems for a team that you're coming and playing for? That is the question mark. And so think about the guys that we just named off, right?

The top NBA players that we were talking about, right? When you talk about Donic and you're talking about the Joker, um, and Luca and Webby, a lot of these guys, Webby aside, who's kind of this, we call him, you know, the an alien. Yeah. The alien. But these other guys are not elite athletes. And you look at Luca and the Joker.

I mean, in fact, they were kind of made fun of for not being, right? So, but what they do is they go out there and they're incredible at solving the problem that they they've been assigned to solve. And I think Braden Smith from a different angle because he's not an elite scorer like those other two are, but he is an elite passer, an elite uh guy who can find guys to put him in the right spot to make them better. That's what he did at Purdue. Yeah. Those guys who he was surrounded by are good players.

And in fact, look at TKR and Fletcher and Kluff. They all have a chance at the next level. TKR is getting drafted. I mean, and Zakiti became the player he is because he's Zachi. But he's also the player he is because of Braden Smith. And I think that that's what he has to offer to these different teams.

And I think in time that's what he will prove and that's why I believe he will have a long career. Will he ever be the greatest player in the NBA? Well, of course not. But that's not what every player in the NBA has to be. We forget about the fact that there are 15 guys, give or take, on those rosters. And that what needs to happen is that every guy plays a role and I think he will find that for himself.

Yeah. I think those type of skills travel no matter what. Right. All right. TKR drafted. You you called it.

I wasn't so confident. I think uh Mr. Nate called it. This side of the room. This side of the room. ProTKR.

Yeah. Whoa. I'm pro TKR. Come on. So, two Indiana kids. But I mean, is it is it a stretch to believe?

I the undersized thing, the skill set thing I it's hard for me to get past, but the work ethic is obviously there and he he is a really good finisher around the basket. He plays bigger than what he is. Is it realistic to think Top and Ren's can be a rotational player in the NBA? Well, the I think at one point I compared him Malone. I think that's a little bit of an aggressive comparison. Carmelon is such a generational talent when he was in the league and such a physical specimen as well.

I think what's going to be important for TKR is first of all he's a he's an old school player. Yeah. And the problem is that he's not a great leaper and he needs to develop an outside shot. So, if he can knock down a three reliably and continue to use his body the way he does, in my opinion, he's the kind of guy that can be uh one of those guys who fills that role on a team where he goes in there and he's reliable. He finishes around the rim, he rebounds, he defends, and does he's a pest, right? He plays so hard and you need him to go in there for 10 minutes a game.

He's that second rotation guy. Almost like a Jeff Foster. Jeff Foster's great tight, right? Right. I'm kind of getting that sense from him because he's undersized. He's got great footwork.

Um, he's got a nice touch around the rim. He's got that nice little hook shot that he can knock down for. It's kind of that unusual push shot. Push shot. But I think that if he is able to have a great summer and I I'm sure he'll probably spend some time in the G-League. So, if he can prove himself there, then I think that there is a spot for him.

But I guys like that seem to always find a spot, right? that you can't have a a team full of uh all star in the sense that uh yeah, you know, your top three, four guys can be that, but then after that, you also need guys who can come in and be reliable and do what they need to do. And and guys make careers out of I mean, I'm talking 10 year careers of just being good teammates, showing up on time, rebounding, knocking down the open shot, not getting in trouble, being a leader in the weight room. teams underestim or fans really underestimate how much teams need that because you can't just have a guy, you know, you can't have five LeBrons on a team and hope that you don't have also other players that fill in the gaps. Dude, that's half the battle. And I think that Purdue does a good job.

It's like you don't largely these days hear about off the court antics, right, where it's like, you know, you talk about like Georgia football and it's like every other week it's like speeding, reckless driving, DUI, whatever it might be. And a little bit of it's like okay you're going to you have experience getting paid like I don't know what the we already we talked about Braden Smith last time but TKR for sure getting NIL probably I mean a decent handsome sum yeah and being good stewards of that being responsible in the spotlight like knowing that like a little bit is keep your nose clean and just like be a good be a good like I think that improves your draft stock right just being a good teammate a good person someone they know they're not going to have to worry about and there are guys in the NBA that we see it more at the guard level, but who are or who have had careers, long careers, just being great defenders, right?

the guys who will make it a real headache for you to bring up the ball and and just players like that that I think TKR can become that from a power forward standpoint where he does not need to carry the burden of scoring and he needs to come in and be the guy who will be a pest for five minutes and just guard the heck out of a power forward on the other team and get that other guy in foul trouble or has fouls to give himself and if he gets fouled will knock down the free throw. Those kinds of things are not talked about enough. We talk about all the star players, but no one talks about the supporting cast, right? There's no there's no uh spot in the stat book for being a pest, you know, like like minutes of effort given. Uh like how many times Fletcher Lawyer hits the deck? What's his name?

A Avarado or uh for uh the Knicks or he went to Georgia Tech. I can't think of his name. Jose Avarado think something like that over here. But we forget about that. Yeah, he's a pest, too. He picks you up 94 ft.

But, you know, if you want to go back in time, you can look at the guys like Matt Harpering and guys like that who just made a living off of Well, you t you talked about Hanssbro. Hanssbro is actually shorter than I am. I'm 6'8. He's probably about 67 in person. I've met him a couple of times, and he's not the biggest guy out there, but he had a great career of just being a guy who will outwork you and do the things that no one else wants to do. And and that there is a need for that.

I think about someone like Schroeder in the NBA at a guard level, right, who just has been an incredible player for the teams he's on because of course he can score, but he's he's just solid out there and we need guys like that in the pros. And so I think that TKR can become that. And from a guard level, although from a little bit of a different standpoint, Braden Smith, I think, will become that same thing. Just reliable. He'll go out there, do his job, get the guy. Actually, you know what?

I think Braden Smith would have been great fit in a place like Boston. Yeah, agree. I think I think we had said that. Like I totally agree with that. Just where he's got a great cast of guys he just needs to distribute. I think he would have been great in a place like that.

So these guys, it goes back to the system that you're on or in and becoming uh or being a part of. And I think that that's what these guys have a chance to do is and also if you want to return to what these college programs are, what this proves is that Purdue has a great what I would call development program where you have guys who came in and and we forget TKR was a top recruit. His other choices are places like North Carolina by the way. So, it's not like he was some guy who was unknown, but he came in and proved that Purdue will develop you into something that is maybe beyond even what everybody thought initially you could be. And this is why I think Braden Smith will be a great player in the NBA because every at every level he's been at, he has been proving people wrong, right, at Westfield. And there's something to be said about that, right?

And just having that mentality and then proving that it's not just proving people wrong. He became the all-time assist leader in college basketball. So, it's not just the fact that we're sitting here saying, "Well, Braden's good. He's a great passer." No, no, he is the best passer statistically in the history of the NCAA. So, he didn't just prove people wrong.

He set records along the way. He was an all-American along the way. He was in a final four along the way. So he knows what it means to be in high pressure situations, to play hard, to play through it, to have hard times because it wasn't like there were times this year where he had some bad games. Yeah. And he came back and played better and got through it.

So he knows what it means to overcome those things. I think that is what is going to make him a a good pro. You know, time will tell how much and how long he's in there because I think size will play a factor, but I think he will be a good pro. I I I couldn't have said it better myself. All right, on the topic of college to pro, I want to touch on this quickly because I think it's we almost saw it with Dan Hurley, but then it just kind of fizzled out. But this is the first time in a in a long time, I would say, a college coach has made the jump to the NBA.

Kind of a shocker. Dusty May, the Indiana alum, Eastern Green kid, just won a national championship at Michigan just after two years there. I mean, think about this. And I want to say a four-year time span. He went from Florida Atlantic leading them to a final four to winning a national championship at Michigan to now taking the head coaching job of the Dallas Mavericks with Cooper Flag. Life comes at you fast.

Life comes at you fast when you're successful. I think he's under 50 years old as well. Just a kid from Green County, baby. I like this a lot actually, especially with Cooper Flag being your main piece. What do you make of Dusty May and how successful will he be in the NBA? Well, let's look at some past coaches.

We look at someone like Caliperry. We look at someone like Brett Stevens, um, Billy Donovan. Yeah. So, it's interesting because not every coach that goes to the NBA translate and and in my opinion, it translates even worse when you go from the NBA to the college, right? We just saw that with IU and Woodson. Uh, what a big challenge that ended up being.

But I think that for someone like Dusty May, what I think is actually the greatest proving point of how well he will do the in the NBA, his starting five and arguably the the the backups shortly thereafter, the sixth and seventh, maybe even eighth man, a lot all those guys are pros and he he was dealing with personalities already. Yeah. So look at how well Shasheesky, even though he never went to the NBA full-time, he was very good with those USA teams. Yes, he was. because he knew what it meant and what it looked like to coach NBA players day in and day out at the college level. And that translated well because when you look at what the NBA coaching style is, yes, it's X's and O's.

It's a different kind of X's and O's, but a lot of it is managing personalities, right? And understanding how to get guys to fit in to and roster management. Basically, NIL has made college basketball that it's made it that. And at the highest level, the Dukes, the Michigan, um, and all these teams that do really well year in and year out and and attract those players, your coaching staff becomes a pseudo NBA staff where you are literally managing expectations of playing time. You're managing expectations of scoring and of who's getting this and that and and who's going to be able to go out there and succeed. I mean, when you look at Michigan, they had all these guys who were incredible ball players getting drafted, you know, uh, very highly.

He drafted his own player. He drafted his own player, Morz Johnson Junior. So, that was really interesting. And so, you look at these guys and you sit back and by the way, one of the games I went to this year, uh, was Purdue, Michigan. And I remember as a I'm sitting there, I'm hard to impress these days, by the way. Yeah.

And I'm sitting there with my kids and uh Yakil takes off his warm-up and I swear you I looked at my son who's 12 and I just went, "Oh my god." You know, because he is he looks like a test tube baby. He looks like something that if I had an action figure and I had a box of an action figure, I'd take it out. I rip it out, you know, and like take him out of the box and you sit there. So the point being though is he's used to coaching guys at that level and managing those uh different personalities. I think that will translate well at the next level.

So uh I think he's going to do great. Uh it doesn't always work out for these coaches, right? Just like it's no different than think about some of these coaches that go from a smaller program and then all of a sudden go to the bigger one. It works out for guys like uh at IU, right? where they were able to take the program to what it was the national championship but for football but it doesn't always translate I think about Shaka Smart and what he did at VCU and here's the nuance you talk to people behind the scenes and they'll tell you that Shaka Smart one of the greatest strengths he had at VCU was that he was really good at being almost like a father figure to those guys. Yeah.

where it was like those guys would run through a wall for him. And then he went to places like Texas and other parts of of college basketball. Uh and it hasn't quite translated. It doesn't make him a bad coach, but the kind of player you're recruiting is different. They're not necessarily going to be the guys that are looking for that same kind of relationship. It's a little bit more transactional.

And so when you think about guys going from college to the NBA, you're thinking about similarities of how is their coaching style translating. And I think that's why we'll see uh him do well uh going from Michigan over to the NBA. Yeah, I I I I really do think it's going to be good for them. And I also I think there's something to be said of like will we see this more because being a college athletics head coach in any sport is so exhausting because he I think he was on a podcast or on some show saying, you know, he wins the national championship and the next that night he's talking to recruits. that next day he's worried about his roster for next season. In fact, you could argue that that is the best time to be calling those recruits.

Yeah, right. I just won the national championship. Come on, baby. Come on over. And like he and if he doesn't The time is now for Dusty May. What's the downside?

You're going to the highest level of basketball. If you don't succeed, you will be welcomed back with open arms for college basketball. This is it. This was the best take that I've seen on this is how Dusty May gets to Indiana without burning bridges in Michigan. See, I I like this. And the only way you could do it, you can't leave.

You either have to spend the rest of your days with Michigan until the wheels fall off or going up, you know, hey, I I got you a national championship. I'm going to go to the NBA. It works out. It doesn't work out. You have time. Then IU job opens up.

He's like, you know what? I had fun, but I want to get back to my alma mater. Boom. And I want to get back in the Big 10. Yeah. And that's the only way the only way that Dusty May could go to IU and not be hated in the Mittens State.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. And IU should be Look, I like Darren Dere. Okay, just want to say that outright. Hope he's successful. Uh we'll see if that happens, but IU completely missed their chance at Dusty May. I mean, it was slam dunk home run.

Couldn't have been an easier come on down, welcome home. And they just missed on it. and seeing Michigan win a national championship had to be just excruciating for them sick. But I love this conspiracy tinfoil cap because it is very true. I mean, but what I mean knowing he's such a good basketball coach, I feel like he will succeed. Well, but also what this proves though, Dusty May, what he proves is that one thing is managing personalities.

Another is having rapport with players. Yeah. Because at the NBA level, uh, you hear this about certain teams where, uh, the rapport with the coach and the players isn't always there, right? And so, for you to be able to, uh, come in having coached the national championship gives you credibility, right? Having all these guys on the team that were NBA players, there's some statistic out there. We'll have to look it up.

There has never been a team that's won a national championship at the college level uh in basketball without at least two NBA future play future NBA players really. And so he arguably had what maybe five six on there, right? Or at least in time we'll see that. I mean gez he had three or four in the first round. In the first round. So where where you're what you're going to see though is that translating well into the next level where it wasn't some team that just exceeded expectations, right?

He in fact met the expectations of what was expected for him to do and did so at the very at a very high level. They dominated arguably I think better than any team in the NCAA that tournament outside of maybe one or two games where it got close at one point, but I mean they they clearly were the favorite and the best team in that tournament. So the way they dominated Arizona was opening because Arizona is a really good I mean and he had a great combination of height of athleticism of guys who could finish and then knock down the shot. And he here's the other thing that he proved is that um you know one of the guards came from North Carolina over to Michigan. Yeah. And they had kind of written him off a little bit over at North Carolina, right?

Comes into Michigan and does really really well. And it goes to show you that he's able to not only coach players at an elite level, but he's also able to hone into what their talents and skill sets are and get them to perform and to believe in those guys to do what they need to do. It's a very important skill set. Caliperry has it, Shashesky had it. The guys who it's a different way of coaching. It's a different mentality, right?

Painter is very different than a Dusty May. What he's trying to do at Purdue is very different. Yeah. And so what what Shy is doing now at Duke and what that whole program has done under Shasheesky, it's a very different model. It's a very different model than ISO at Michigan State, right? It's more ISO is more of a developmental guy.

You know, we're going to we're going to invest in you. Um and you peak behind the curtain and see what how he manages practice and man manages his players. It's a very different model. And so I think all this will will bode well for Dusty Man. Yeah. And it's interesting that you say that because can the Tom Mizo Matt Painter way still be successful?

They are very consistently successful, but can they be successful in the way of national championships? But Dexy May comes in, buys a roster. Basically, he's an elite level basketball coach, gets the pieces fit together, they lose three games all year. It's it's an interesting thing to, you know, I would like to think that those coaches who really invest in you can still succeed. I think they can. Um, well, Harley is another example, although his his approach is very different.

Yeah. Yeah. But I I think it's a it's an interesting question and I and I think that time will tell. Iso has won a national championship. Purdue has not yet. But I think that there it's proof of there's different approaches that are still successful.

Yeah. But what it also proves is that you have to know who you are. Yeah. And you have to recruit the right players for your system. If Purdue starts recruiting guys that don't fit in and they become mercenaries, is Purdue as successful? Maybe.

But I also think that Purdue knows who he who they are right now and and a lot of these great coaches, they just know who they are and therefore recruit accordingly. Yeah. All right, a couple more things for you and then we'll get you out of here. I've loved this conversation, by the way, Matt. Highle stuff out of you, per usual. Let's stick on the hardwood.

And we've talked about this off camera and I mean this is something that everybody's talking about, but I I would just love your opinion on this. I mean, as a viewer of sports, the explosion of popularity regarding the WNBA, regarding the Indiana Fever, regarding Caitlyn Clark, never before seen. Okay. And I think where I want to go with this is I'm just confused because to me as a as a sports journalist watching Caitlyn Clark is unlike many other things I've seen in the women's game. The way she plays, the way she distributes, the way she lights it up from three. Most women won't even consider taking a 40-footer.

She hits two in one game that I watch. It's electric. and seen the the Fever Gamebridge Fieldhouse sell out to levels they've never seen before. And it just feels like there's a lot of resistance to this leaguewide um in media circles, what have you, because the second she came in the league, you know, private flights happened, increased pay happened, increased viewership happens, expansion happens, and just so much more interest. Um and it just feels like embracing her is not happening. the opposite is happening and what I can only describe as a version of jealousy that I just don't understand.

What is your opinion on Caitlyn Clark as such a polarizing figure here? Well, the WNBA is a an intriguing ecosystem. Yeah. And universe. And when you think that's a good way of putting it. Yeah.

and and and so it's hard to sit back and and understand what's happening, what we're watching unfold in front of us because it's not just about so I just looked it up. She is selling the second most amount of jerseys, second only to Steph Curry right now. Wow. And so um how about that? Yeah. And and more than LeBron Braden Smith LeBron is three.

Like there are more Caitlyn jersey than LeBron James. I was I was I was in Slovenia earlier this year and I saw a Kaitlin Clark fever jersey. That's a real thing. Yeah. That's crazy, right? Well, I think when you look at Angel Ree and I I'm not going to sit here and analyze her game, it is what it is and who she is as a player, but she was on the cover of uh you know what is it the the 2K the 30 or the the 30th anniversary poster.

Is this where we're going? Well, that we can come back to that. on the on the latest um you know Nintendo Nintendo game or whatever it was. She was the cover of that. I think it was Okay, Boomer. Okay, Boomer.

The latest Nintendo. Oh, come on, man. Come on. We got to go got to call Spade P. Yeah. No, but I I I laugh because when you think about from a in all seriousness right now, I only bring her up because there's been sort of this uh rivalry going on fabricated.

I think that she would like it to be a rival. She would like it to be a rivalry. Exactly. But at the end of the day, when you think about arenas have had to uh shift focus in terms of going to a bigger spot to be able to accommodate all the fans. Uh, I went to a game last year where people were holding up posters. I traveled from, you know, three states away just to see Kait Caitlyn Clark play.

And then I got to watch her in person for the first time. First of all, she's taller than you think she is. She's an incredible passer. We forget about that. And in fact, some people would argue that she's a better passer than she is scorer. I would 100% agree.

And she's just an elite shooter. And has a knack for the game, which makes her a very special obviously generational talent. So, this is not some fabricated advertising ploy of like, well, we're selling jerseys because fill in the blank. It's because people are intrigued and fascinated by how good she actually is, right? So, when you go and watch her in person, watch her on TV, cuz she was making some shots and I was there thinking I was thinking, man, I don't care who you are. If you're playing in your driveway, these are hard shots.

Like, just even the the to take those the confidence to take those shots. You know, when you look at the ratings, the attendance, the merchandise, the proof is there that the fans want to see Caitlyn Clark, right? Because it's not just an Indiana thing. This is a nationwide phenomenon, right? So, that is the thing. And when you think about the fact that she was, I think, ranked 11th by the players, 11th guard or something in the league, the the the data doesn't prove it.

It doesn't prove it with, you know, the the the statistics. So, so what other reason is there for that h? That's my whole point here. I don't understand what other reason you could say as her peers as to why that's happening because you know in your heart of hearts that is not true. Yeah. I I think that we could have a long discussion about why and we could be guessing all day long.

But I think there is a level of jealousy. I think there's a level of this is how I would view it. If someone's better than you, the way you do it as an athlete is you go out and compete and out compete that person, right? You don't go out there and right now there are games where she is almost they've been trying to hurt her. It seems it and it seems intentional. Look, I can't I can't speak to intent, but like that's the way it is coming across.

Yeah, it comes across. Look, we we don't know what these people are feeling, but it comes across as jealousy. It comes across as something like this is not what we envisioned the star player of our league to be. And therefore, how long have you been wanting this? But it it seems like you don't like the way it was achieved. And I don't I don't get that.

It's unfortunate. I think when you look at certain players throughout history that have eventually become the the face of their their league, uh they start out as being disrespected, of being bullied a little bit. Um you know, on the court or on the on the football field or whatever the case might be. Um and and a lot of the guys who are the veterans are threatened by this, right? You're taking away what they believe to be their league and what they've created, right? And and I think there's a little bit of those nuances going on that I think with time she if she can stay healthy and if the WNBA is able to make sure that there are true consequences for somebody any player doing what they've done to her.

But uh but especially her because you're protecting the talent the generational talent of what she is then I think eventually when she gets through this period I think we'll we'll look back on this and kind of think how silly this was because she will then become someone that everyone respects and wants to see. I like that, dude. I I see the Yes, I want to know your perspective of this. Well, one, I was looking at like uh the commissioner side of it where it feels like a church mouse doesn't have Caitlyn Clark's back. But also, put yourself in in those shoes. It's like, well, one, if you lean all the way in, you're going to have a ton of other ticked off players being like, why haven't you given me this love?

Why haven't you taken care of me like this? Like, you have to make those decisions. Everyone's everyone's worried about me. Whenever you point a finger, there's always three of them pointing right back at you. But here here's an important piece to this. Think about this.

She did not create the WNBA, but she's accelerated. Yes. The viewership. That's what I mean. And the notoriety and and I think that the next step for the WNBA is to embrace this and to say, look, we need to make sure she is the face. That's what I would do.

I mean, then you're because she has already accelerated the interest in the sport. I mean, we're I've told this story a few times, but let's let's take it back. Dom and I are longtime fans of the WNBA. Oh, yeah. Uh we were at the finals, you better believe it. 2015.

We were at the WNBA finals, the Minnesota Links, Indiana Fever. The tickets were free. They could not give away tickets to the WNBA championship a decade ago. We literally did. We went as a favor. That is correct.

Like we we took We were what? Front row, too. I'm sorry. You and Zack were forgot about that. Dom gets us eight tickets. We have 10 friends.

Yeah. He gets us eight tickets in the front row, like courtside seats. Freddy Fever's there taking pictures. And then me and my other buddy Zach are up in the rafters of the WNBA finals. Again, all free tickets. They were giving these things away.

They used to curtain off the third level of Gamebridge because they couldn't fill it. They used to have, you know, like a bounce house, like a little play basketball court. 19 18 or 19 of the top 20 most viewed WNBA games include Caitlyn Clark. They've had to move to bigger arenas in several different states. I I don't know what else prove this concept you This is Oh, you said I think it's 19 out of 20. But are they all in the last few years?

I mean, since Caitlyn Clark got into the league, but like there's they got a new TV deal. Every single one of the Fever games are nationally broadcast. Every single one. Yeah. And which is interesting because if you look at the NBA, I'm like brought up there uh the talking about NBA Finals ratings, viewership, like the pinnacle of the NBA was uh Jordan 1998. Yeah.

Like I mean it was I mean looking here viewership 29 million people watching that and then it's been like it's just been like I mean if you look at the graph we'll put it in the the show notes there but like it just like plateaued after Jordan or like nose and they're still trying to build back to like the pre Jordan era. And so like you talk about uh the NBA obviously is you know more popular but you have momentum on the WNBA side. You need to just like do whatever you can to capture that and keep going. Like just why even question it just just whatever is working go do its, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. Like it's I don't I hate it because it makes people talk about it. Like if I was Angel Reese, I will play the heel all day long.

like dude I and and you know what there on this point I do think there's some intent there and like I think it's very smart of her all these players are leaning into the smart ones are leaning into this and you know accelerating their brands outside of basketballie Cunningham comes to the fever okay she defends Caitlyn Clark's honor she to she tackles JC Shelton I think is who it was with the Connecticut Sun that one game and then now she's pointing and now she's got the meme unreal meme she loved it by the way, she was like she was laughing about it. Her parents love it. Uh she is salt of the earth human being and I don't this isn't like a malicious oh look at Sophie. She's capitalizing off this. This is just like a smart thing. She gained millions of followers overnight after that situation and thought to herself okay like I'm going to start a podcast now with this massive following that I have very successful.

You know, every superstar gets tested. Jordan got tested when he got to the league, by the way. And when you look at these different athletes, it's just that her rise to the top was so fast. Yeah. Because she is such a talent that the league, I think the players especially, these are leagues that are in large parts, I wouldn't say run by the players, but they the players have a massive impact on how these leagues operate. Star driven and so they're star driven.

So I think for the the old guard to see someone rise to the top so quickly, not just because of the fan reaction, but because she's also just so good at what she does. So the question I think for me is going to be, can she continue to adjust? Can the fever adjust? Because the league is what it is right now. And if she adjusts accordingly, I do think that in time the conversation will start to shift. some of these players will start to retire that have been used to being the ones who command the most attention.

And I think all these things will start to shift in time for her. But it's amazing when you look at the the fever, right? You've got uh Lexi Hull, you've got Sophie Cunningham, and then you've got Kaitlin Clark, right? They are this amazing treat and and then you got the other players too who are incredible like Boston, etc. But you have this incredible team that they just they look the part. They they are competitors.

I mean, Sophie Cunningham, she's a competitor. That's what so amaz so great about it is that she's not just a girl that's going to go out there and defend Caitlyn Clark. She's actually a great three-point shooter and she's she's just good at what she does. Perfect off the bat, dude. And Leah Boston is like really the first first round pick, wasn't it? Back to back.

We had Boston and then Caitlyn Clark back toback years. She was the first overall pick, rookie of the year. She's been an all-star. She's gotten better every year. Kelsey Mitchell is arguably actually not arguably I think she's the best scorer on this team. Dom has been very adamant in saying that.

Yeah, dude. She's awesome. And three allstars consecutive years for the first time in franchise history. Yeah. You know, it my whole point here to put a bow on this is just embrace it. You know, Kaitlin Clark is not the enemy here.

She She's like a incredibly humble person whose only fault is being too competitive. Maybe you can you can not like her antics. I've said this before and you might be justified in saying that. She doesn't always handle herself great on the floor. Neither did LeBron. Nobody liked LeBron when you know when he was coming up.

Cody throws the powder. Yeah. Like everyone had a problem with it and the decision and all this stuff. And sometimes that that takes time to catch up for the fans re the fans react differently than the players. And sometimes it takes time for the players to catch up to that. But here's the thing.

When you think about Caitlyn Clark, not just let's talk about why she sells jerseys. Let's talk about I have a daughter who's about to turn eight, she loves Caitlyn Clark, right? And it's one of these things where she is inspiring generations of women to go out there and play basketball who otherwise may have played a different sport. And so that is important also and boys like little there's little boys with game card. We'll see the impacts of this in 15 years. I want to put a bow on it also, D.

We're gonna we're gonna double wrap this thing. Double bow. We want to stand standing invitation. Sophie Cunningham, Caitlyn Clark, Aaliyah Boston, Kelsey Mitchell, Lexi Hull. I mean, we'll honestly 17th player. I don't know if they roster 17.

Ty Harris. Any Ty any fever player? Well, their coach played basketball at Purdue. Yeah, that's right. Stephanie White. We will take anyone.

Freddy Fever, you want to come in the studio? Open invitation. We'd love to chat it up. We We'd love to learn a little bit about what life's like on the inside of Absolutely. cuz I from the outside looking in, it's easy to see the clips, the Tik Tok, the this, but like what's it like to be in the organization that is literally on a rocket ship going from free tickets a decade ago to selling out the biggest arenas, 19 of the 20 most televised, most watched games. I'd love to hear Boston has a podcast with Candace Parker, too.

Like these these women are doing it right now. By the way, cir full circle here. Candace Parker is one of the great broadcasters in basketball right now. She is awesome. She is extremely gifted. So well spoken, right?

Like she is very well spoken. Knows the game and man is she good. When we talk about broadcasters that I would listen to all day, she is one of them. She is very gifted. But I would say this, you could put a bow on this as well. Triple rap.

Triple rap. Kaylin Clark is the engine not only for the WNBA in my opinion uh but also of course for the Fever, but Sophie Cunningham has become the emotional spark. And I think that that is what we love watching the Fever for is that you have these kind of the star player with these supporting roles that that just make it so good to watch. And this is another example of how basketball functions, right? Where you can't have five Caitlyn Clarks. You could, but it'd be difficult.

So, you have all these other players that can go in there and do what their roles are and make it work. And I think that, like you said, you know, you give it a few years, I think we're going to look at this very differently. And uh I'm excited to see where that goes. Yeah. No question about it. And you would be shocked how many people have season tickets from out of state.

Yeah. Is something I've learned as well. So, we'll see what the fever can do. They're super super interesting. All right. I want to end on this uh because we I mean, we just got to talk about it.

then we we'll get you out of here because this has been a great conversation. But you grew up in Latin America. I I would love to know where you grew up, how long you were there. Educate us on how that was, and because I think this lends itself nicely to to soccer being such a big thing down there, but that's such a unique part of you that I'd love to explore. Well, thanks. I appreciate that.

I actually grew up in Guatemala City. Okay. So, for the first 14 years of my life, uh, we lived in Guatemala City. So, for those of you who need a geography lesson, it's Canada, the United States, Mexico, then Guatemala. Yeah. Okay.

And so, that's where it is geographically. Uh my dad's half Guatemalan and uh he was down there for work. And so, uh we were down there uh for a big portion of me growing up. But, so I fell in love with soccer down there because that's what you do down there. You play soccer or baseball. You had to look like a menace on a soccer pitch.

Massive guy. That's right. But I actually grew up playing baseball, but being a massive soccer fan and the World Cup was always the biggest thing on our calendars every four years was we could not wait until the World Cup came about. And uh so now it's just fun to see the World Cup and to experience it again. It's unfortunate that the US lost to Belgium the way they did. Tough end.

Tough tough end. Yeah, that was that was ugly. But but what a it's the most viewed sport in the world. It's, you know, in ter especially the World Cup, I can't remember how many people were watching the first game and will end up watching the final, you know, I think it's in the billions. No joke. When you look at the scenes of Mexico City when they were playing and how they were everywhere along the streets, it was so cool to see the row uh for the Vikings for Norway or the Netherlands dance.

Netherlands dance tartan army taking over Boston. Yeah, it's pretty special. Wholesome, right? It's so wholesome. So special. It brings the world together in a way that a few other things do when you sports.

It's just sports, right? When you Yeah. I will say it is almost like soccer fans are some of like the coolest. They're just like you're bringing your drum into the game. Like imagine going into Lucas Oil for a Colts game and bringing your like your drum because there's so few goals because every possession matters bec like that stuff. I have did not expect to love it as much as I have.

I mean every single day I have it on and every game has been so exciting. So good. every game even like 000 Columbia Switzerland just the other day PKs but like electric and like they're so crushed like they you you you have the the continent you're like South America verse Europe like it's just righting awesome and then to have teams like Morocco do so well yeah Africa I mean just to see these teams Egypt you know who arguably they've got a pretty good argument for what happened against Argentina I saw that but to see these these nations that are and to see these fans descend upon these different arena or I say arenas now I'm talking about basketball but to see these fields where I mean tens of thousands of people from all over the world have traveled to to view these games it's pretty special and you know what else is really cool I think that um we should talk about is the fact that you have so many people that came to the US and who have said oh my gosh growing up I heard so many negative things about this country and then here I am and I get to experience it firsthand and people are crying or people are saying, "Wow, this is incredible."

That's important. I think one of the Okay, I'm That is so wholesome and kind. One of the best clips I saw was the guy uh who experiences Texas Roadhouse for the first time and he's just like, "How could you be angry when you have Texas Road this bread? It's so delicious. It's like it's like better than Subways." And I'm like, "We're comparing the bread to like you're you're comparing the Texas Roadhouse rolls to Subway."

And like that's blowing someone's mind. And it's like we take those things for granted all the time. We we we live in a great place and like so much negative is broadcast and what sport does is it brings out the positive and you're absolutely right. Every single European who's come or African who's come or South American who's come has said we we've been lied to. America is awesome. And you know why I think that is is because they're experiencing not New York or LA or Miami.

Well, they are, but they are, but like Kansas City or Boston or like these kind of not exactly touristy places you would think if you're you're a foreigner visiting uh and you're seeing what America actually is. You're going to Bies. You're going going to Waw Wa. Okay. You're experiencing ranch. We're naming gas stations.

Is that where we're going? Yeah. That's what That's what makes us great. You're experiencing ranch. Texas Roadhouse. Chipotle.

Like the the German guy who got in trouble for trying to smuggle back like a bottle of ranch. iconic. Well, then you have Harland, um I think I'm saying that right. Holland from uh Norway who's, you know, live on his, you know, on his feed on Instagram, you know, biting into these different foods he's trying and and loving it, you know. So, it's just been great. And and the great story for me of the World Cup, we talked a little bit about this, has been from Cape Verde, I think I'm saying that right.

Yeah. But here's this 40-year-old guy who had something like 14,000 followers on Instagram before the tournament and now he's got over 20 million. I mean, and and he single-handedly captured the just everyone's love for the game. And I love watching it. and the fact that he was a school bus driver or a bus driver I should say, an electrician back home and now he's getting potentially contracts with Miami to go play with Messi. Well, that right there sums everything up.

That's crazy cuz they didn't win a game. No, but they were the darlings of this tournament because of how small that nation is and it was the very first draw against Spain that everyone's like, "Whoa, whoa." like Spain huge favorite coming in and you know yeah they drew three times but then they took Argentina to the brink I mean like population 530,000 that's incredible did not win I love the internet though like they literally did not win again I I don't even know yeah draw literally three draws and then 3-2 against Argentina in extra time I believe so just electric stuff and uh the World Cup I I did want to me I know it's not Indiana but it's just it's the whole world, right? Like in the US has been such an awesome host and um we'll we'll see. We'll see what happens. North America.

North America, I guess. Yeah, your guest. You're right. You're right. You got Vancouver and Toronto and Mexico City in there and everything. It'll be it'll be fun to see who wins this.

But uh and and by the way, maybe we'll see a repeat from Argentina. That would be crazy. I mean, it certainly seems uh to be rigged that way. Anyway Anyway, on that note, on that note, Matt, this has been awesome, man. seriously appreciate your conversation. Uh I think a sports broadcasting future is definitely happening for you.

So that's going to and hopefully get in sports has helped us with this, you know. Uh don't forget us when you're when you're big and famous. So this is also your reminder. Help us distribute the show to more people. Five stars preferably wherever you rate your podcast. Like, follow, subscribe, do all the things.

Help Dom, help get in sports. Go follow on Instagram, Twitter, the whole nine yards. Uh, we would really appreciate an honest review. We're working on getting to I believe 25 is our next milestone we're looking to get to. So, go on there wherever you listen to. Um, I'll let Dom give you the outro here.

Appreciate that. That's the founder of Get Indiana telling you that. So, please, please listen. All right. My first Matt Carroll, Nate Spangel, I'm Dom Miranda. This is Get In Sports.

Thanks so much for listening. Great stuff talking ball. Keep watching. Subscribe, like, follow. We'll see you next time. All right.

Great stuff from Matt Carroll as always. First, again, first repeat guest here on Get In Sports. And I think that can maybe put a bow on basketball talk as we get closer and closer to football season, folks. It is upon us. It is coming. And we have so much cool Colts content coming up, high school football content coming up, Notre Dame, IU, Purdue.

We have a lot of really cool stuff in the works, a lot of really cool guests in the works. And I feel like we've bridged this summer lull gap very well by the way just with all the fever stuff going on, World Cup stuff going on. We've done some auxiliary things. So about a month plus in to get in sports and I think we're doing pretty well here. Will Duncan is back. He is going to have several top five lists, little trivia going on pertaining Indiana high school athletes for us as we close out the show here today.

Will, what do we got first, my man? Okay, first we're gonna see, can you name the top five Indiana high school gyms by capacity? Okay, so the largest gyms in the state of Indiana, the biggest ones for high school basketball. I know in the in America, Indiana has what, like eight of the top 10 or something like that. So I would assume these top five are probably the top five in America, too. Maybe.

That is correct. Is that right? Okay. All right. So number one would be down in Seymour. Seymour is actually number two.

Seymour is number two. Seymour has 8,228. 8,228 for Seymour. Number one. Duh. Newcastle.

Newcastle with 8,424. Just edging out Seymour. Okay, so almost 10,000 for those two guys. Seymour and Newcastle. You know, fun fact, I still haven't been to Newcastle. I have to go to New Actually, haven't been to Seymour either.

I got to get there, folks. That's on me. We're going to get out there. It's going to be a lot of fun. Okay, three, four, and five. This is where it gets interesting because I think there's a lot of candidates.

I believe somewhere in these top five is somewhere up in my neck of the woods. Would it be Elcart gym? Elcart is actually number seven. Oh, okay. Okay. Close.

Top 10 though. Okay. Got to give the shout out to Elcart. Elcart. Um, okay. So, how about I'm going to go with Washington High School.

Washington is not on the list really. the Hatchet House. No Hatchet House. Okay, I'm gonna go another uh gym over in that neck of the woods. We're gonna go Loi. No, Loi.

Not on the list. This is crazy. Those are two historic gymnasiums. Jack Butcher Arena and the Hatchet House. If you haven't gone to either of those, definitely make your way to those places. Now, let's get back to the task at hand.

Here we have Newcastle and we have Seymour and then blank blank blank. All right, I'm going to solicit a hint. Can you give me area of the state for any of these three maybe? Yes. So, I should know this, but for number four, you are going to think northeast. There is a college in this town, I will say.

Okay, there's a college in this town. That should help a lot. Is this northeast? So, is there a uh is there a uh Fort Wayne connection here? There's no Fort Wayne connection. No Fort Wayne.

How about Anderson? How about Muny Central? Muny Central is number four, which is 7,635. Okay, so we're looking for three and five. Three and five. I should know this.

Okay. Is it in the is it in southern Indiana or west central Indiana? Either of these. So, one of these is super super north of Indiana. The other one is also northeast but not as far as Muny. Okay.

So, both on the northern part of the state. Yes. So one very very north you say and then I would say the second one is more central Indie but it's still north of Indianapolis. Okay. Okay. Okay.

On the east side. Yes. Okay. H Okay. So how about is there anything in Anderson? Nothing in Anderson.

Okay. Nothing in Anderson. Um if you recall back to our top five high school all NBA players. Okay. There is an alumnest in that top five that went to this high school. Okay.

All time. Uh, yes. All time. Active. All time. Okay, I gotta think back here.

We're calling back to the pod, folks. There was Robertson, there was French Lick, there was Mike Connley. There was McInness. Remember Connley's teammate? McConny's teammate? Connley's teammate as in like Greg Odin.

Think of Memphis Grizzlies. My Connley teammate. Oh, I've been to this gym. Light bulb. I have been to this gym and it's a great place. Home of the Giants of Marion.

Marian High School is number five. 7,560. So, really? Yeah. Bigger than the Hatcha House in Lagodi. That floors me.

Those places are massive. So, now we are looking for number three. I will say this one is the one that surprised me a little bit. Really, really north, you say? Very north. Very north.

Very north. Like like bordering Michigan or No. You know what are we going like um uh region like the region? So like Gary close very close about East Chicago. East Chicago is number three at 8,054. Really?

I haven't been there either. So I have only been to one of the top five biggest gyms in Indiana. Biggest gyms in the country. In the country. That's on me folks. That's going to be Bookmark this.

We're gonna make videos of me visiting each of those places and it's going to be awesome. Newcastle, Seymour, East Chicago, Muny Central, and Marian. That is your top five biggest gyms in the nation. And of course, in the state of Indiana. All right, that was a good one. Yes.

Love it. Now, we will transition over to can you name the top five high schools with the most Mr. Indiana basketballs of all time? Okay, so they are featuring the most players who have been named Mr. Indiana basketball. That is correct.

I will say one through four are all tied for four and then there are three high schools tied for three. So no one over five. No. So the most no one over five. No one over five. There's four high schools that have four.

Three high schools that have three. Okay. So a lot of parody here. So we're going to name all seven though if you want to. Let's do it. I say let's do it.

I think that's like an amended like ding ding ding. Yep. Um okay. I'm gonna go with Ben Davis High School. Nothing for Ben Davis. All right.

We're going to go rapid fire here. How about Christmas Addicts? Nothing for Christmas Addicts. They're sitting at two. All right, that shook me a little bit. Uh, how about I mean, I'm going to go with Marian High School.

Marian is correct with four. 1950 1976 and Dom, they actually had teammates that tied for Mr. Indiana Basketball in 1987. Really? How about that? Was that the the Twins?

No, that was a different twins. That would have been really cool. I thought that was cool though. Teammates that tie for it. Very cool. Uh any of I'm sure one of the Blackman family had to be in there surely.

Um okay, Marian High School. Love that for them. Uh lot or Zach Randolph maybe could have been. He was actually not. He was not. Jeez.

No way. Uh okay. I got to go with Lawrence North. Lawrence North is not on here either. No. Really?

Greg Odin had to have right. I mean so get this. We can take this off the record too. Greg Odin won Gatorade National Player of the Year in 2005 and lost Mr. Indiana to basketball. Dude, you should put that in there.

That's crazy. Oh my word. To who? I have no idea. But he was good. A backto-back Gatorade player.

Was that 2005? 2005. Yes. He was a Gatorade player of the year in ' 05 and '06 and only won Mr. Indie basketball in ' 06. Oh, so he did win one at least.

He won, but he won a Gatorade player of the Nationals. Luke Zeller from Washington High School who went to Notre Dame, baby. Spoiler. Um, Washington High School cuz it's all the Zeller brothers. Had to be. Yep.

So, Washington High School was tied for first as well with four. All three Zeers won in an '05, 08, and 11. And there was one more in 1979. 1979 at Washington High School. There's your trivia question, everybody. How about Cody Zeller to IU, Tyler Zeller to North Carolina, Luke Zeller to Notre Dame, Luke Zeller.

One of the most iconic moments in Indiana high school basketball history. Halfcourt shot to win the state championship. Should put that on Kid in Sports Instagram page. Actually, that'd be a great one. Uh, unreal, unreal stuff right there. Okay.

Washington High School. So, we have Marion and Washington. Were they both tied? They're both for you. We have two more for four and all three left for three. Okay, got it.

Okay. Okay. How about Washington High School? I'm telling you, you got to get out to the Hatchet House. Um, all right. Think here, Don.

How about my Central? Muny Central was on here for three. So they are tied for what would that be? Tied for second with three, I suppose. 1951, 1960, 1963. They cleaned up in that era of like 60s,7s, 80s maybe.

I mean, I don't know because we had many drills growing up in high school basketball named Muny Central or like offensive sets and everything. So shout out my central historic Indiana high school basketball program. A lot of lore there. Okay, so we have Marian Washington, Muny Central. Um, I'm going to go with someone I know won Mr. Indiana Basketball and his name is Chris Wilks and he went to North Central High School.

That is correct. Okay. Yes. North Central is tied for first with four as well. 990407 and 17. Okay.

So, a lot post 2000. That's okay. North Central obviously a very historic uh Indiana high school basketball program as well. Let's keep it in Indie. How about Southport? Not Southport.

No Southport. No Southport. Shout out Paul Scruggs, though. Uh, how about Park Tutor? Okay, that was a good one. I thought that was a good one cuz Yeah, I don't know if Yogi Frell actually did win, but um or Jiren Jackson Jr.

for that matter. Or uh anyway, uh how about Lawrence Central? Kyle Guy carry the weight of a program? Not Lawrence Central. Nope. All right, we got to we got to reset here.

We got Marian, Washington, Muny, Central, North Central. Yes. Okay. You're looking for one more tied for top five. Let me give you the years because this will tell you a lot. Okay.

46 74 84 93. So, this is a manual. Not manual. No, it's a good guess though. It was a good guess. Uh, okay.

Manual is on there for two, but not for four. Um, that will help me. Oh, Elkcart High School. Not Elcart. No. M really scary 21st century.

Yes, there is one 21st century. This high school had a winner in 2024. This man just transferred from Kansas to Louisville. That helps. Cooko High School. Cooko High School.

Really? Yes. With three 4559 and did not have a winner until Flory in 2024. No way. Cooko nearly 70 years with that one. Flory put him over the edge, too.

That's really cool. Oh, Florida is going to eat at Louisville, by the way. Shame he couldn't get to IU or Purdue, but uh Okay, that's really cool. So, two more. We're doing remember we're doing like amended seven here. So, I love it.

I love it. These are like these are some serious historic Indian high school basketball programs. Okay, two more. Both are three or one four. One with four and one with three. I will say both of these cities have a college in them as well.

Okay, love that hint. That's a good hint. Um, any Fort Wayne schools? No Fort Wayne schools. Fort Wayne dropping the ball with basketball. They make up for it.

Football though. Um, okay. College. College. College. College.

College. Any Evansville represented? Nope. Oh, come on. Think more north. Okay.

Thinking more north. We're going to go with uh We already did Muny Central. Mhm. Um, what about like a Franklin? No, Franklin. No, Franklin.

What about Okay, think Northwest for one of these. Northwest. Okay. Northwest for one of these and the college. Okay, I am uh Gary. Nope, not Gary.

Let me give you this should help too. Yep. Uh for four for the college, that college is division three. The high school has three. The college in that town is division one. Both are northwest.

one is more central like predominantly it's pretty close to Indianapolis a little bit north of Indianapolis but still very close just a little bit a little bit south of Muny a little bit north All right we're going to go Lafayette Jeff Lafayette Jeff is correct that is one with three 1948 1964 and 1986 okay so now you have number one tied for number one left with four and that is 46 74 84 93 and it is basically central Indiana that okay and this is the D3 this is the division three yes okay so Lafayette was the northwest correct oh okay uh okay so by okay what about like a Anderson is correct is correct really okay who we got in Anderson people are going to love this from Anderson It doesn't look like anybody made the ABA/NBA. We have Johnny Wilson who went to Anderson College. Know that name. We have Roy Taylor who tied. He went to Vincen's University of North Texas State. Talk about a mouthful.

You have Troy Lewis in 1984 who went to Purdue. And then you have Maurice Fuller who went to Vincen's University Southern in 1993. So tied for first for producing the most Indiana Mr. Basketballs of all time. Will. Yes, we have Anderson, Marian, Indianapolis, North Central, and Washington tied for first.

Okay. Then we have Muny Central, Lafayette, Jeff, and Flor's hometown. And Cook, Cooko, Indiana. That is rounding out the list. Okay. And there are all your high schools with the most high school.

North Central, Muny Central, Anderson. Got a lot of good representation. So, a lot of good representation. I loved it. Yeah. All right.

Challenging Fort Wayne, Evansville. Need more out of you both. All right. And South Bend for that matter. Need need some more Mr. Basketballs.

But okay. Really good trivia right there centered around basketball. We of course just talked to Matt Carroll. So we're talking about basketball. Really great guest as I mentioned. You can always follow us on YouTube.

Subscribe. We just got a ton of listeners for our head coach Brett Deeds podcast. Will, hey, real quick. I want to get your thoughts on the Monan Bell announcement. What do you think of that? I think as a Waw Bash guy, it is so cool.

Well, I know the drive is far, but I guarantee Come on. It's not that big a deal, right? There is going to never be hardly ever a time again where there's going to be a a neutral sight game. And the fact that it's my senior year, last chance to win the bell. I I can't think of a bet. Sure, I would love it on my home turf.

Couldn't win one there. But I would much rather drive to Muny than go back down south anytime again. I know that you may disagree. No. Uh, cover your ears, Dep. I will say I'm being 100% honest.

Waw Bash is an excellent host of the Bill game. They really are. Okay, look. I mean, I call it a spade of spade here. Talk a lot of smack. Love Dep, but it's true.

Crawford'sville does a wonderful job. I think what people aren't understanding here is that this is not this is not an every year thing. No. Okay. It's not It's nothing against any other place that was not chosen in Indianapolis in anywhere. I know it may have been more convenient in Indianapolis.

We understand that. But it is so cool the opportunity that is presented here. How many people do you think want to go to the bell game, whether it's an alum of either of these universities or just a casual college football fan who knows this is an unbelievable historic rivalry and they can't get tickets. Yeah. And that's no no fault to W Bash or Depal. It's like these are D3 stadiums and 10 to 11,000 is an amazing crowd every single time and the tailgate's incredible.

like this gives a unique opportunity to get I mean on the low end in my opinion 15,000 and on the high end like let's sell this out. Yes, easily and I think that this is going to be one of the years where it is a more competitive game. Obviously Depal has had the edge in more recent years. A lot of your good seniors just graduated. I think that if you have not gone to a bell game, this is the perfect year to go. I mean you will be a part of history being the only neutral side game in who knows how long.

really competitive game and then you can say I was there in 2026 2027 for the bell game at Muny in Ball State. That's just really cool. It's a really cool opportunity. If you're upset about it, I can't help you. Just get over it. Come to my make a weekend out of it late November there.

There could be a live podcast. All right. I got a good reaction on uh Instagram when I posted that. So go take a look at it. See what you think of a potential college game day with Nate Spangle and Dom Miranda. Uh really good basketball trivia.

Matt Carroll, great as always. Follow us on uh all these social medias. We're growing this thing. And like I said, we have a ton of really good football guests upcoming. So, I mean, I'm talking when the second Colts training camp starts, you're going to want to view. You're going to want to we're going to go to weekly podcasts.

I don't know if I've said that anywhere really, but we're going to go to weekly podcast because there's just too much good stuff and uh we're just rocking and rolling here at Get In Sports. So, Will Duncan, great as always. Don Miranda. Thanks so much for watching and listening to Get in Sports. We'll see you next week with a great guest. Who will it be?

James Boyd to the Athletic. How about that for a tease? We'll see you next time.