Today is Friday, April 17th, and we have a non-traditional episode for you. Today, we're going to give you a deep dive into the business that is Get Indiana. Talk about what we've built over the last almost 2 years. I believe like officially it started in June of 24. So, we're approaching our 2-year mark. Believe this is going to be episode 274.
Going to talk about um some fun stuff there. And in the middle, uh, you're going to hear from who's your author Craig Berman, who has written two books. The first was called Author and Chief: The Untold Story of Our Presidents and the Books They Wrote. And the second, released this year, is called This Vast Enterprise, a new history of Louiswis and Clark. We had an awesome conversation that you're definitely going to want to listen to all about, oh my gosh, he read like millions of words of the journals of Louiswis and Clark and it's it's pretty crazy. uh written kind of Game of Thrones style.
So, you're going to love that part. Uh he's a Hoosier author. I mean, born in the small town of or grew up in the town of Dillsboro, which is down in southeastern Indiana. You're again, you're going to love that. But before we get there, I want to open up a little bit and tell you about Get Indiana. We're building one of the Midwest's fastest growing media brands, and I'm going to tell you how we're doing it.
Uh this thing started with a podcast at my previous company that we were working on and then I started posting on social media and kind of got a little bit of uh I mean a little bit of an audience there and over the past 20 something months it's just kind of gone gang busters and we've you know acquired publications we've spun up more publications. So, how did Get Indiana start? And on March 15th, 2023, when I worked at Powder Keg, we put out our first episode, March 15th. And then, I don't know, maybe after year 1, you know, almost a year later, put out 50 or so episodes, I acquired the podcast. It was only about business and entrepreneurship. I broadened the horizon to anything pertaining to the state of Indiana and set out to build Get Indiana.
I kind of did a little bit of freelance marketing, figured that whole piece out. And then in oh man, I think Get Indiana as a brand launched officially
um we started putting out content and launched the website January of 2025.
So we're just over like like officially as an entire company, just over a year old. Robert has been editing the podcast since since I we since I acquired it. like he you were one of the first guests that came on there and it's been it's been a really really cool journey thus far. I want to give you the full scope of everything that get Indiana is today. So obviously we have the get in podcast that you're listening to there. We have my social media. Shane has the number. What is the number of total you know combined followers that we have?
I added it up going into today's show. You just surpassed 260,000 combined followers on Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, LinkedIn and YouTube. So, five platforms, you're over 260K.
A quarter of a million people. That's that's pretty nuts to think about when, you know, I was still on the sideline, you know, in the beginning of 2023, you know, and there's a lot of people I I would say that think about starting a business and I mean, I had a million business ideas
and finally feeling like um I'm not pushing as hard for entrepreneurship. It's kind of like pulling and guiding us on where we're supposed to go is awesome. So, starts with all of our publications. We have the Get In podcast. We have my social media with again over a quarter of a million followers across platforms. We have the Get Indiana um Facebook, the Get Indiana Instagram. We have Get in Sports. We also
got Get Fishers on Instagram.
We have Get Fishers. And then we started to dive into email publications. We have a newsletter that goes out weekly uh focused just on Fishers. We have one that's focused on the entire state of Indiana. and we have one that's focused just on the Southbend Elcart like 574 area code. Additionally to that, and we're kind of announcing it here for the first time, we started the Get Indiana podcast network. So, not only is it my podcast, obviously the Get In podcast, but we also want to give other people a voice and and help kind of take this model that we've built over the last 18 months and expand our our reaches past what I can do. The one thing that doesn't scale with this business is Nate. Nate can't be the face of everything, doing all the things all the time, visiting, you know, a town in Evans down a pretty good job of it. I
Dude,
you try.
I try my best.
I saw your schedule next week. You're going like Madison, South Bend,
South Ben, Madison, back to Indie. Three different three days, three parts of the state. It's It's wild. But that's the part that doesn't scale the life you live.
Yeah, absolutely. And I would not change it. But if we want to continue to grow and make a bigger impact, it can't just be the Nate Spangle show. So, we're launching. Actually, it's already a show. We're bringing them into our network in the parks hosted by Allison Martin.
It is a show all about recreation and, you know, state parks within Indiana. She is so so so so passionate about the outdoors. Does a fantastic job and that's going to be part of our network. We're also going to be releasing two two, count them, two new shows uh early this summer that you're going to start to hear about and they're going to make a pretty big splash in the state of Indiana. I will not be the host of them. That's what's great.
I might pop on from time to time, but it will not be me yapping in yours in another show. It will be new faces, fresh blood, and and you're going to love that. And I think um a big piece that people think is that it's just Nate and his videos. And it's so crucial to really build a company to have, you know, Shane, you manage the entire newsletter. You're sending that out to oh, over 15,000 Hoosiers twice a week. Uh, we have Will, you know, editing a lot of my videos, but also running the Get Indiana account on Instagram.
We have Silus up there running the Get In Sports account. We have, I think, uh,
seven or eight writers,
seven or eight different writers at any given time that are, you know, turnurning out blog posts so that, you know, we get new traffic to our website and then convert more email subscribers and
something new on the website every day.
If you go check get Indiana.com, you are going to see something new every single day. And I think that's pretty cool. Um, a lot of people do. Yeah, they see the videos, they know like that when those go viral, they're like, "Oh, it's the video guy." But we're really building an entire media company that, you know, is advertiser supported. People ask, "How do you guys make money?" Like, yeah, we get a little bit from platform, but it's largely thanks to our partners like the Hughes Culinaries, Elements Financial, like these legacy companies that have, you know, largely bought billboards or newspaper ads or radio ads or TV, like that kind of thing. getting more innovative, getting more creative and advertising within our content. Uh, yeah. So, I What am I missing, Shane? When you think about the business that is Get Indiana, what what what do you want to know about?
Well, you got into a little bit with the newsletters and um having the localized newsletters up in Southbend and Fisers and that is an opportunity for expansion that we've talked about internally for months now. And so you can look at cities across the state, Evansville, Terote, Muny, Fort Wayne, and having a localized newsletter for those communities as well. That's an opportunity for growth. And then eventually, you said it kind of at the outset of the show, but like being the biggest modern media company, maybe not just in Indiana, but eventually expanding outside state lines and and making it Yeah. a true Midwest media company.
Yeah. And so much of this uh is kind of learning on the fly about hiring and about getting the right people in the right seat because again
I can't scale everywhere and be everything to everybody. But I think we're on the right track. Uh a big piece that we want to do is help supplement some of what you get from local news. You know, like the sad reality of it is is in rural America, you know, the old school newspapers are dying. They're getting eaten up. It's like one or two reporters that are trying to cover a vast amount of area and it's it's frankly just hard.
But when we can team up, you know, our Southbend writer lives in the Southbend market. Elena does a fantastic job. Uh Caitlyn is our Fischers writer. She lives in Fisers and does a spectacular job as well. And when they can kind of build this platform, talk about new restaurant openings, talk about, you know, the summer event schedule, parks, what's going on, what were the minutes from the last town hall meeting, like what are the big things you need to know? Trash day is changing in our community.
And then also, what I really love is doing spotlights on individuals within those communities that are doing cool things. Anytime you can put faces and names into this channel stuff and and take away like the faceless media part of it,
I love it, man. People do Yeah. They always want to know how do you guys make money? Um, you know, when you listen to this podcast, you're going to hear in the beginning of the show, it's like this is brought to you by our friends at XYZ Indiana brand. You know, in the middle you're probably quick pause in the action while we tell you about our friends at Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance. And we are, I would say, 98% advertiser supported. We have four full-time employees at the moment. We have another seven or eight part-time people that are that are touching this business and and whether it's managing a social media account or writing a newsletter thumbnail. Like everything you see is like,
you know, there's no book to this. There's no these are just things that I like looked at the biggest media companies in the world. What are what is Morning Brew doing? What's The Hustle doing? What's Trends? What's Barto Stool Sports doing?
Like, yeah, we have different content. We're not we're not making the same content that Morning Brew is. We're not making the same continent content as Dave Portoi, but the distribution models of those, I think there is a ton a ton of upside. I think that we're just scratching the surface on what we can do with putting faces and names. And I mean, the one thing that we're waiting on now is straight hustle. Like the one thing about me and the one thing about our team is we will like, you know, on a Wednesday go to South Bend and on a Thursday I'm literally getting in the car.
I'll be in South Bend speaking on a Thursday morning and that night I will be staying in Madison, Indiana.
And all that's on the heels of your best and brightest cere. Yeah. And because I I'm
You didn't really get to celebrate that much. It's just like, hey, I got to be up early. I got to get on the road.
We got to rock and roll. And And I mean, it's an incredibly cool opportunity to be here and be able to build something like this. But this is why when you listen, when you share, when you leave reviews, it's so important. and know that like we will you if you email me, if you email Shane, we will see that and your feedback can help us shape this company. Like if there are guests that you want to see, if there are
gems you want us to write about,
cities, you know, small towns you want us to visit.
I can't promise that we'll be there like tomorrow, but
goes in the queue.
Yeah, we have like D we're I would say for people that are in the media space, we're probably just as technically savvy like our whole company as it gets. making sure that things aren't getting lost, making sure that you know, again, the list, like we're booked out on podcast guests till August. Like three times a week, I will be in this studio talking to someone until the middle of August. Yes, sometimes we could do stuff like this, but like there's no shortage of great stories to tell. There's no shortage of, you know, incredible like markets where we could start a newsletter. Like on my list is Lafayette, Bloomington, Evansville, Fort Wayne, maybe Muny, maybe Teraho, maybe the south side of Indianapolis, like
up in the region.
Up in the region, the 219. Everyone always says we skip that part out.
Uh media, the landscape is changing. Now is the time you want to get in there. You know, again, we're at four full-time employees. We're at a bunch of other If you have a if you have an idea for a column that you want to write, like things are moving pretty quickly around here, and I'm excited to see what the future holds. What I might not even know the answer to, but I think what our our listeners would like to hear is is this where you saw it going 15 months ago.
Oh gosh. Cuz I think it's evol I mean it has evolved so much in s 15 months is not a long time. But going back to January 2025
kind of honestly
like it wasn't going to happen overnight.
Like I think there but I think there was a moment between okay you go one of two ways. you either like broaden my horizon and become like Nate talks about more stuff and like you know grow that landscape or you bring on more people like either I had to find a topic that I could appeal to lots of and like we are not even close to tapped out on the get in podcast like there are so many stories there's a lot more audience growth that needs to happen like that's a whole piece there but I think as get Indiana as a company
um when when I made kind of the the decision, which is an interesting place to be at to be like 29 years old and you like make decisions and the buck stops here. And it's like when I made the decision that we're going to have more faces, more voices, more stories and kind of like go the the like media company like outlet personality route. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's not ever as fast as you want it to be. It's not ever as big as you want it to be like when you're ambitious and moving quickly. But to think we had created a podcast network, added a one show to start, two more coming down the pipeline with more in conversation. To think we now acquired a literal business, a business that was like not doing like hundreds of dollars, like you know, doing tens of thousands of dollars a year to make like an acquisition within your first year and a half is pretty cool.
And to have
I mean, we're approaching 20 different voices and hands all from the state of Indiana. There's no like West Coast puppet master pulling the strings here. There's no like
no one's working remote out of state.
Yeah. There's no, you know, like very cheap uh virtual employee labor that's happening. Like this is all people in Indiana and like some of them are just, you know, do it out of the sure passion for their area and they want these stories to be told
and it's it's freaking cool, man. I think big things are coming. I I'm excited to help, you know, create some more publications and get more faces involved because that's the other piece. Like my Indiana is not everyone's Indiana. Like what I like to do like drink Bush Light and dive bars and tailgate at the Indy500 is not even close to what the scope of Indiana is from arts and culture and media and you know, travel, state parks, the whole nine yards. So my content is not going to change.
what I'm interested in doesn't necessarily have to change, but we have a platform that we can bring these other people in and have them talk about whether it be real estate or business or sports or technology or whatever that might be. So, I'm really excited. Uh, this is kind of like our V1 of like updating you on where the business has come from. I would say like expect lots and lots of content. We're going to keep pushing the envelope. We're going to keep doing big challenges.
I think within this year we have some huge things. Obviously, the Indianapolis 500 is coming up. We're going to do a huge prize wheel again. We're going to be the first truck in all that great stuff. We're on this road trip, this journey to 1,000 towns.
You've got 10% You're 10% of the way there.
900 more towns to go. So, uh I don't know any other
We'll check We'll check off a lot of those trips across the state.
If you have ideas, seriously, email me natepangle.com. Super easy.
But yeah, like four pieces to it. I think the core, it all goes back to the core and the acquisition of the podcast when you were with Powder Cake and you branched off and it really came on the heels of the Indie 500 in 2024. You bought the rig, you sold sponsors on the rig, had some activations at the tailgate, throw this big 200, 300 person tailgate. It's gotten bigger every year. It's coming up here in gosh, today's April 17th, so we're about five weeks away from the 110th running of the 500. So, a couple things there
in turn turn three, another tailgate.
Yeah. One, we have to give so much credit Robert, Will, Austin, Caitlyn, Elena, Jenna, plus the entire staff of writers, the entire staff of Clippers. Like, I mean, we have a we're we're always optimizing and I'm a like a constant push the limit harder and harder. So, I might not always stop and smell the roses and say like, "Hey, great job everyone." Seriously, everyone,
what's next?
What's next? But everyone is doing a great job. Lots of moving pieces over here. what we need. One, if you have ideas for content, if you have ideas for hidden gems, absolutely. But also, if you are a marketer or a business leader, you're someone with a little bit of power and you want to get your brand plugged in, whether it be on the podcast, in our newsletters, on the side of our Indianapolis 500 activation, at the racetrack in turn three.
We always need good partners. We always need businesses with ties to Indiana that are, you know, building really cool things here that want to be part of what we're doing. Whether it be for the IND500, our journey across a thousand towns, or just every day, like every of one of these podcasts has space for two to three advertisers that helps us make all this great content that helps, you know, us tell the story of Indiana. Hopefully my vision, you know, 250 years from now when we're celebrating America 500 is that when they are looking at the story of Indiana, they're going through the Get In podcast. They're seeing like how we are documenting what's going on at this time in this place and it's special. So, more good things coming.
We're about to get into an awesome interview with Craig Ferman where we talk all about this vast enterprise, Louiswis and Clark, the history behind there. Shoot me an email. Also remember, please, please, please, please leave us a review. We're trying to get to 100 reviews before summer starts. Go on, wherever you listen, Apple, whether you listen on Spotify, leave an honest review. Hopefully, you love it and it's five stars.
That would be sick. But we're trying to get to 100 reviews. We're just over halfway there. We need your help. Stay tuned for this awesome interview with a Who's your author, Greg Burman, where we talk all about this vast enterprise and our guys Lewis and Clark. We've come to the part of the show where we're talking to a local Hoosier author.
Greg Fairman is a journalist and historian and he spent 5 years writing and researching this vast enterprise. This book dives into a new history of Louiswis and Clark and anyone that knows anything about Vins knows that there are a lot of ties to from Lewis and Clark to George Rogers Clark. I'm really excited to dive into uh what this book's going to cover, a little bit of history around the state of Indiana and how it pertains to Louiswis and Clark and also a who's your author that's like I mean this is a Simon and Schustster book. You're going on a book tour all across the Midwest. There are some large publications that may or may not be highlighting this book in the near future. I'm really excited.
Craig, welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks for having me, man.
Man, this is exciting. So, anyone that's an avid listener knows that I am a history buff. I love all things history, particularly Hoosier history. Like that's kind of like my sweet spot, but all history in general. I just read like a oh man, like a 10-hour a I say read, I listen to my books, like I'm an audio book guy. I just read like a 10-hour history of the Vanderbilt family, and I'm like so far in on the weeds on that. So, it'll be really interesting to hear more about what inspired you to write this vast enterprise.
Sure. So, the first book I wrote was about presidents and the books they wrote. And I'm proud of that book, but it was definitely kind of about ideas and and things like that.
That was called Author and Chief.
That's right. That's right.
Okay. Yeah. I mean, what got you to want to write your first book? Like, where what got you on the the path of being an author?
Well, I was in grad school. I uh I went to undergrad at the University of Southern Indiana down in southern Indiana.
Screaming Eagles, baby.
You know it. You know it. Division one now. And uh and so then I went to grad school on the East Coast. And grad school was great, but I also found myself wanting to tell stories for regular people, I guess. You know, not just writing for people in my grad seminar, but beyond that. And so I started writing some journalism and then started thinking about books and things like that. And so my first book was sort of like it was the research I did for my dissertation cuz I was doing an English PhD, but then it was a chance to tell about bigger stories about presidents and kind of the human side of presidents and that kind of thing.
And that that worked well, but I found myself really wanting to try to do a big adventure story. So when I was looking for the next book deal and the next book idea, I was like, what are big adventure stories? And honestly, the first one that came to mind was Louis and Clark. Like that's the American adventure story, right? But I also was wondering, is there something new to say here? I don't want to write a book that just rehashes other books.
So I started digging into the journals. One of the cool things about Louiswis and Clark is they kept more than a million words of journals. It's it's an unbelievable resource. Takes a long time to read them, but there's a lot of good stuff there. And so I was I was looking through there. I realized that we only really know half of this story.
And I'll give you one detail that kind of illustrates it. Early on, before they even left St. Louis, there's this just just this one little line where Clark is like, "York commence sawing with a whipssaw." Now, who's York? York is a black man enslaved by Clark. And he was on the whole expedition.
What's a whipsaw? It turns out it's a really important tool cuz that's how you make planks. So, that's like how they build beds. If they don't have planks, they don't have roofs on their cabins. They don't have beds to sleep in. So, this is a very important tool.
Why did they pick York to use it? There was dozens of white soldiers that they could have picked. It was because York was so skilled. And so from this one little line, you start to understand how does York fit in with this unit. What is York's role? How is York able to kind of make choices for himself even though he's still enslaved, even though he still has these limits on his life?
And from just one little line, you could kind of see his whole story unfolding till he makes it to the Pacific Ocean. And so details like that made me realize I can tell an adventure story, but I can also bring people into that adventure story who haven't been part of it before.
This is a historical account or is this a fictional account? Like what kind of book are we working with here? It's very historical. There's like 40,000 words of endotes. Nobody needs to read those. I don't even know if my mom would read those.
What does an endnote mean?
An endnote is like what historians used to say, "This is where I found this," or, "This is how I found." So,
this is like your bibliography in terms of like us that that ended at uh undergrad. We had to site our sources there. MLA format, APA form,
Chicago manual style.
Yeah. Chicago manual style. Nice. Okay. So, Endnotes means this is historically researched. Where do you is there like an online library of the journals?
Yeah. So, anybody who wants to go the journals are all million words are online through the University of Nebraska.
How long does it take to read a million words?
Uh, well, I read them at least three times.
Um, and it took me 5 years, but it's not like I was reading only this. Um, but you know, if if you're reading carefully, at least a month to get through all of it.
And was a lot of it, we can be honest, was a lot of it interesting or was it like a lot of like were they recounting like their day? Like today we had fried squirrel for dinner,
right? No, it's the fried squirrel is actually be an interesting day, right? Like is they had a great dog who was with him named Seaman and he would jump off the barge, pluck squirrels out of the Ohio River, bring them back and then that was supper. So that's interesting.
That's kind of interesting. Yeah.
But there are definitely a lot of days that were like, we made it 8 miles today, the current was terrible, we went to sleep. So, you know, in the book I sort of try to speed up when things are boring and then slow down if it's something exciting like a dog uh chasing some squirrels.
Yeah. and and like what's the overall theme? Like again, if people have read any of the maybe the the other recounts of the adventures of Louiswis and Clark,
what's going to make different about this account?
The key thing for me is that Louiswis and Clark was about more than Louiswis and Clark like most people just think about the captains. Maybe they think about Sack and Julia, too, but it's just focused on these two people. But it to me it's like an ensemble. Like think of Game of Thrones or something like that where there are interesting people all over the place. I even wrote the book kind of like Game of Thrones. Again, it it is history. It is factual, but each chapter moves to a different person's point of view, just like George R. R.R. Martin does. And so, to me, it was really important to say Lewis and Clark are fascinating. I found new stuff about them, too. But like, what did Sack Jia think? What did York think? What did this working class think?
This is bad. I actually thought that this expedition was a canoe, Sack, Jia, and Louiswis and Clark. Like, I that is the mental image in my head. And I mean that that is bad. But the mental image is like her at the front of the canoe and those two rowing this thing like down the river.
I all respect to the captains, but they didn't do much rowing. It was their men who did the hard work.
How big was how big was their entire crew?
Was as sometimes as many as 45 people. And when they first started out, they were doing this big barge, which if you want to picture it, it's the size of a semi-truck trailer.
So they're they're moving that on the Ohio River at least, they had the current with them. But once they started going up the Missouri, they're moving that huge thing against the current. It was brutally hard.
Wow. Okay. So, where does this story start geographically and where does it start from a time perspective and then how long does it take to reach the Pacific?
Sure. I I mean, I guess you could say it starts in Washington DC because it's Thomas Jefferson's idea. You mentioned George Rogers Clerk. Jefferson had been so obsessed with this idea of an expedition for so long that he first started to try to do one in the 1780s and he asked George Rogers Clark to do that. George Rogers Clark didn't want to. He was too busy. But then, you know, way longer, more like 1803, 1804, that's when the expedition finally gets moving.
And how is George Rogers Clark tied into Louiswis and Clark?
Well, William Clark is his baby brother. So, George Rogers Clark is much older, very famous revolutionary war hero, somebody who fought against native people all over.
Yeah. Like, didn't he capture or recapture the fort at uh Vincent's? I don't know, maybe like I don't know, Fort Lafayette, maybe. It might have been called something like that.
There was a lot of forts that he captured. He was he was a busy guy. So he was, but by this point he was kind of older. He had gout. He had alcohol alcoholism problems and all kinds of stuff going on. So William Clark's not a baby anymore. He's 33. Lewis is 29. And so they come together to lead this expedition at Jefferson's command.
How did they become friends?
They met in Ohio. It wasn't Ohio yet. It would what would become the state of Ohio, but there was a fort up there and they were both young men in the army and they just kind of became friends. And so when Jefferson told Lewis like, "Let's do this expedition," Lewis came up with the idea for a second person. And it's worth noting that that's kind of a fascinating thing because if you talk to soldiers even today, the one thing you don't want in a pressure- packed situation is two commanders because then you're like, well, who's in charge? Who do we follow? But Lewis and Clark compromised their chain of command on purpose. They thought this would work better with two leaders, not one. And they were right.
Were there ever moments uh tumultuous moments in their relationship?
They don't say that in the journals, but I think you can tell sometimes where there are moments of tension because sometimes they would copy each other. So Lewis would write one thing and he would write something kind of negative about native people sometimes and Clark would just leave that out. And so that's not did did Lewis and Clark over a campfire have an argument? I don't know. But you can tell that Clark was like I don't quite agree with that cuz
So they have their own account. There's two journals.
There's like five or six cuz there's a lot of And there's others that haven't even survived. But a lot of the regular soldiers kept journals too.
Yeah. This is what I find so fascinating and I'm curious. Okay. As an author 100 years from now, well how long ago is it? This is 18 200 years from now. Do you think people will be going through like Instagram archives to like tell the stories of our lives? Like that's really what it is if you think about it. Like you I think the the average person today doesn't keep a journal like this, which is kind of sad, you know, like knowing in the the thoughts of Benjamin Franklin um the Benjamin Franklin or like all these other insane leaders like incredible leaders.
It's cool to like get a glimpse of what they were thinking. And and sometimes I'm sad like you know 200 years from now it would be cool if someone got into got to go inside my brain and think about what I was thinking about in 2026. Uh do you think yeah I was going to say do you think that authors will be basing it off of what they saw on Instagram?
I would say yes if they can access it. Like what's tricky is that you know with paper we know how to preserve it. We know how to a lot of stuff gets lost but some of it doesn't. So technology changes so fast, formats change so fast that I don't know if anybody will back it up. There are a few places online that are trying to back up and archive you know Twitter and sources like that in real time. You know what would be crazy? Uh, like I don't know if you could do this. It's probably you don't have to sign off a lot, but like someone's messages, right?
Like you could definitely log their life and how they were feeling.
I mean, obviously you probably get some personal conversations, but like 200 years from now, I don't know if I'm going to care. And it's like, this is what was going on at this point of the world. Like that would be really fascinating.
Yeah. And I mean, there's personal stuff in these journals, too, like Lewis and Clark are are complaining or or talking about things that frustrate them or talking about things their hopes, their dreams. Lewis especially kind of feels modern in in his psychology. So, I I hope that his future historians have a way to access this stuff, but my only concern is like, will the technology change enough where people won't be able to get in, but hopefully there's a way.
Yeah, that's super fascinating. like as you were reading this uh reading the journals
like how do you distill a a million words into a book in a way that uh would be interesting for people to read
right that was a huge a huge concern my book's about 400 pages long which is a long book I'll fully admit but if you look at most of the previous books on this they're like 600 700 pages and so I really wanted this to be a page turner and so a lot of it was you know once you know I I describe one day in detail and then it's like the next day they made 10 miles. The next day they made it 12 miles. Just kind of speed things up a little bit. You don't have to write about every day. So I tried to find the highlights. But then the other key thing I think was those rotating points of view. Like we were talking the Game of Thrones thing. So the second chapter of the book is York's chapter. And so it's from his point of view. And so I really focus on what he cared about. What was he doing? He was having to lug Clark's furniture and and suitcases around that kind of thing.
Do you write that in the first person or the third person?
Third person.
Third person. Okay. But it's the technical term for it would be like a close third person because it's really, you know, you can you can describe things in a way where even though I'm writing in the third person and even though it's all factually true, it feels like you're sort of in York's perspective.
Wow. So, did you have to read and like take notes and like memorize like, okay, this is a section about York. This is about this will all go into my York chapter.
Yeah. And especially for people like York, York didn't have the ability to read or write that we know of. Nothing survived. So sometimes with him, you know, something would happen in 1806 near the end of the expedition, and I'd be like, "Okay, I'm going to use that in 1804. I'm not going to say it happened in 1804, but it's still going to help me understand him better." So constantly thinking about, you know, how do I understand them as people more broadly and then and then sort of moving those details around while still being very factual and and telling the whole story like it you asked when it started. It starts in 1804. It ends in 1806. They go about 8,000 miles. I still tell that story. It's still like the big adventure, but I try to make the human beings on it feel alive and I try to put you in the canoe. Like that's what I want. Or the barge.
Probably has to be hard. You've probably read a lot of literature on Louiswis and Clark and to like have all that ingest all that information and spit out something totally new.
Like that's challenging.
Yeah. It wasn't even just reading too because I did a lot of interviews with native people. Um five of the 10 people who the book kind of takes on their point of view are native and so I would I interviewed people who are descended from Zack Jia for instance.
No way.
Yeah. And they they taught me so much. Like they really helped me understand as best as I could as an outsider her perspective what she cared about. And so that plus the journals plus reading books by other scholars. Like I just took it all in and then tried to make a a page turner out of it.
What do you hope that when when people finish this book? What do you hope they get to take away from it?
When they picture it, they don't just picture a canoe with two guys in Sakuia. No offense, but I think a lot of people are are like that. I hope they see this cast of 10 human who all came together to make this crazy epic adventure.
Where does like the barge actually start from?
It's It starts in Pittsburgh is where it's built. So, it comes down the Ohio River. They stopped near Louisville. They probably stopped on the Indiana side. It was the Indiana territory at that point.
Yeah, I was going to say like, wait, what do we have any details from coming from down the Ohio? Was that south of Cincinnati?
Right. Right.
Right over there, then down around Louisville to Evansville. Any any fun uh Indiana stories?
Well, it's funny you mentioned Evansville because there's I don't know if you remember this, but there was kind of a viral story a couple years ago where like a camper got stuck on a sandbar. Do you remember this in the Ohio River? Like nobody knew how it got there. Nobody knew what it meant, but you know in Evansville it was like
the big city news. And and I know this I say this with love because my wife's from Evansville. So yeah. So this was everybody in Evansville is like the sandbar the the the camper on it. The funny thing that happened to Louisis and Clark is they just hit sand bars constantly. The river levels were so much lower back then because there weren't modern dams. So sometimes the Ohio River would only be a foot deep. You could just walk across it. And now you got to get this big semi-sized barge through that.
Oh gosh.
So the Ohio River was was was just physically grueling for them.
And what did the territory in the early 1800s along the Ohio River like how did they describe it uh in their journals? The number one thing people mention from this time period are the trees. The Ohio River, they talk about it's the most beautiful river in the world and there's so many people coming from all over the world to live here. It's all fertile, but then people just say the trees. One line from a journal I read, it wasn't Louiswis and Clark's, but I still put it in because it's just such a good line is he said that the trees were so tall and so even they looked like somebody had trimmed them with shears. So I just kind of imagine, you know, just it's so flat and somebody just right along the top.
Yeah. Like you talk about like like the most pristine hedges.
Mhm. Except they're hundreds of feet tall in these huge trees. Yeah.
That's so cool. And it's it reminds me of like taking the time to describe things in detail. I guess today we have like pictures and imagery, you know? So that covers a lot of but like
just like the way that people used to have to write to describe what now like your iPhone camera tells like takes a picture of. So maybe that future historian hopefully can have our pictures too because then they can kind of synthesize it because you're right, we don't always take the time to to describe it. But Louiswis and Clark did. That's the reason the journals are so long is because they're trying to describe everything they can. That's they're they're not just soldiers. They're not just explorers. They're scientists. And so they have to record everything in the written word.
What was the goal of the expedition?
Jefferson even sometimes says like, "You only have one goal." And this always makes me laugh cuz he had so many jobs for them that I kind of feel like they must have rolled their eyes when Jefferson's like, "You have one goal." And they're like, "No, we don't." But the the the technical goal was to make it from St. Louis up the Missouri River across the mountains to the Columbia River and then down to the Pacific Ocean. They were trying to find like the super highway for the fur trade.
But that was just sort of the stated goal. That's how Jefferson got it passed through Congress. What he really wanted was so much more complicated. He was he was honestly thinking about empire. He was thinking about expansion. He was thinking about how to get more land for America.
He was thinking about science. He was thinking about diplomacy because Lewis and Clark were not going somewhere empty. that the native towns in this time period were bigger than St. Louis. They were bigger than Washington DC. So, when you think about power and density, the Missouri River was packed full of native people.
And so, Louiswis and Clark's job was sort of say, "Hey, we're America." Uh, high. And so, they had to worry about that stuff, too.
Like, how did they not just get like an arrow? How do they like negotiate peace?
Often because of the native people. Uh there was one moment in particular with the Lakota who's famously one of the most powerful native nations of all and it came very close to arrows or bullets flying in both directions. But there was a guy named Black Buffalo who I used as kind of the point of view person for this chapter and he wanted to use the Americans. We have to remember that native people were not just powerful, they were smart. And so Black Buffalo had kind of an internal dynamic going where there was another guy named the partisan who was kind of the number two guy. And so they were sort of having a tugof-war back and forth.
And what Black Buffalo was realized, hey, there's these new Americans. They've got this barge, but I can kind of use them to get what I want. And we always think, you know, Louiswis and Clark, were they trying to negotiate and use native people? Yes. But native people were trying to use Louiswis and Clark, too.
Yeah. Like what were the native what were their motives? Like why would they want to be a part of this?
Well, the number one thing was trade. And trade was how native people could get metal weapons, gunpowder, bullets, and that was also how they could prevent those things going from people that they might be their enemies. like there were other nations, the Mandon, the Hadata, the icera, they were farther to the north up the Missouri. So for the Lakota, they kind of created these checkpoints. If you think of the Missouri River as a highway, then you can think of there being toll booths too. And the Lakota had a lot of toll booths where a they could profit from it, but b they could make sure that guns and bullets wouldn't get to their enemies because then those would just be turned against them.
Yeah. I wonder what a book from completely from the Native American side like of those different stations uh as Louiswis and Clark's expedition goes through there. Like I bet they could like talk uh I bet there would be some really interesting stories to share of like these Americans coming through.
Yeah. Well, I I my book's kind of half and half, I think, but I really do did try to capture the native point of view.
So, you have 10 different points of view. Five are what? Five are native. So like is that like their journals? Like did they write or keep a written record?
Yeah, that's a really good question. Sometimes they did. Let's let's stick with the Lakota. The Lakota had these things called winter counts. So sometimes they would use paper if they had traded for it, but oftent times they would use like a buffalo hide or something like that. And they would for each year they would put like the most prominent thing that happened.
So like Louiswis and Clark show up on some of them because that was the biggest thing one year, but other times it might be somebody who died or something like that. But the key thing was these were not just a written record. These were also like a pneummonic device, a memory spur for like the main storyteller and historian of the tribe. And so he or she could sit down with this and like look at it and be like in this year this happened. In this year this happened and so eventually early historians wrote this stuff down. So we do have written records.
We also have the native people's own oral traditions. And so I would interview them or sometimes read books where it was written down. And then honestly a lot of this is in the journals. You just have to take the time to pay attention. Like I was saying with York and the whipsaw, that detail was always there for somebody to notice. They just didn't.
So you can there's a lot about the Lakota that are in the Louiswis and Clark journals. You just have to kind of try to read it from the Lakota point of view.
Wow, that's fascinating. How does this the process of getting like a Simon and Schustster book to publish like how does that go?
Sure. Well, I'm lucky that I've worked with the the same editors all along. And so when I was in grad school, I wrote a story for the New York Times about first ladies.
Okay. Well, let's hold on. Let's back up. How does someone just get a story with the New York Times? That was lucky because I was in grad school and so I was doing a dissertation kind of on politicians and their books.
Oh, for who?
This was at Yale.
At Oh, yeah. That's how Yeah, that's So, are you Where are you originally from?
I'm from a place called Dillsboro, Indiana. So, it's like you might know it actually. It's
I do know Dills Bro.
Yeah, it's like 1,800 people down near Cincinnati. When I met my wife at the University of Southern Indiana, I told her I was from Cincinnati cuz you know I'm 18 and trying to look cool. And then eventually I had to take her to Dillsboro and she was like, "Okay, this isn't Cincinnati. This isn't This isn't Cincinnati,
but it's close to Cincinnati and I like Dillsboro a lot.
Okay. So, you're from Dillsboro and then you find yourself going to Yale. Like, I don't know. I don't know if there's that many Yale graduates that also went to USI, if that makes sense.
Yeah. No, it it was a big jump. I had really good professors and I worked really hard.
That's awesome. And would you study at Yale?
I was going to be an English professor, so I I I technically never quite finished the dissertation as my mom always likes to remind me. Um, but I I spent six years there and so I did a dissertation that was kind of on politicians as writers. So I sort of had a little bit of expertise. And so then with the New York Times, like I just emailed an editor cuz Laura Bush had her memoir coming out. This was back in like 2010. And so I was just like, "Do you want me to write about the history of first ladies?"
And and the editor was like, "I didn't even know there was a history of first ladies." So she let me write it on spec, which means like, "You can write it. I might publish it. I might just say it's not good and you're out of the time you spent, but like I'll give you a shot and that's all you can ask for, right?" So, I wrote it on spec. She published it and liked it.
And then in the little bio at the bottom, I just put I'm working on a book about presidents and their books. And the guy who became my editor at Simon Schustster saw that and emailed me back in 2010. I didn't even sign the book deal for years after that, but he he noticed that and he liked my writing and it was kind of the it was it was it was meant to be.
Wow, that's so cool. Okay. Wait, so you were in grad school working to become an English professor. you get a shot to just like, hey, maybe this will make it in the new How proud were you when you got published for the first time in the New York Times?
I mean, I I I freaked out. I I I can still remember it really carefully. Like my wife and I woke up so early cuz it ran in the Sunday morning one. So, we like woke up so early to get the newspaper and we bought it and we went to this like little doughnut shop and I I think my wife probably still has pictures, but like just seeing it in print in the New York Times and everything like that. It was it was it was my kids weren't born yet, but you know, pre-kids that was one of the most important moments of my life.
Yeah. So fascinating. Okay. And then you get the first book deal then to do the uh what is it? Authorie and now you then get this is the second book deal.
Yep. Still with the same people.
Heck yeah. That's so cool. They talk about going from Dillsboro, Indiana to two time published and I think that there are a lot of published like you can get a book published. Lots of people can do that. But like Simon Schustster is such like a respected publisher. That's very very impressive. Will there be an audiobook version?
There will. I was going to mention this since you were saying you're an audiobook guy. I asked them to get a team of people to do it because the chapters rotate points of view and they agreed to do that. So that means like you know when you have a Clark chapter there'll be one person reading it but when it switches to a Louiswis chapter will be a different person. When it's a Sack and Julia chapter a woman's going to read it. So I think it's going to kind of create that ensemble effect which is the core of the book.
That's so cool.
I hope it's going to be really good.
Um I the idea of doing an audio book like reading the audio book is crazy. Who I was talking to someone. Oh maybe I No, I wasn't talking to him. I saw a video. Do you know Dave Portoy from Barto Stool?
Yeah.
He was talking about because he's his book is coming out and they he was like, "Yeah, they asked me to read it,
but I had to block off 100 hours." 100 hours to read a book.
Like that is int. So you talk about it might be nice if you have 10 different people and they're each like 10 hours each versus 100 hours of a of someone just in the in like I always respect the authors that read their own but it's like it's uh Matthew McConna his green lights great.
Well he's he's he's he already knows how to make a line sing right like he's got some expertise on it so it makes sense.
All right. Um incredible. So when does it come out? When can people expect to get this vast enterprise uh like at their local bookstore?
It comes out April 21st. A lot of I've been to a lot of the Indiana bookstores around here and they're they're all gonna stock it. They're really excited. Um so yeah, April 21st.
That's so cool. And then you're going on a book tour, right?
That's right. The first stop is going to be in Franklin, Indiana. The bookstore there is Wild Geese. So like if you go to their website, you can find info.
Why Franklin?
Because Wild Geese is one of the best bookstores in the country.
No way.
They're incredible. Like like seriously, everybody in New York knows who Wild Geese bookstores is. And it's it's a great bookstore for anybody to go to. I take my kids there all the time. But the woman who runs it is named Tiffany and she is like you should have her on your show. She is she is a marketing genius and a literary powerhouse.
Wild Geese bookstore in Franklin, Indiana
and you'll be there. Are you signing books and are you going to read a little excerpt or anything?
I'm actually going to do I I like to do a presentation. I think it's a little more lively to just kind of like talk. And so I've got I'm I'm going to talk about the Lakota, which we've talked about here a little bit, but I've got a PowerPoint with tons of historical images, you know, paintings, slides from the journals, things like that. So we'll we'll we'll talk about the book that the tickets for Wild Geese um include a copy of the book so you can get your book taken care of first day it comes out. You can get it signed. Love to say hi and you know, hang out with some history lovers.
I was going to say like who who's this book for? Like who did you write this or when you were writing it, who did you envision reading it?
Yeah, I wrote it for everybody. I mean, I I maybe that's a cliched answer, but like my first book was like a little brainier and ideas, but like if you love adventures, if you love the outdoors, if you love Native American history, if you love really good dogs, because they had an amazing dog with them on this journey, like this is a story about human beings. So, if you think human beings are interesting, and I kind of think human beings are the most interesting thing of all, I think you'll find something to like in this book.
Yeah. I mean, I cannot wait. I'm definitely an audiobook guy. Um, but like this just looks Oh,
there's the dog.
Talk about good boys. What's the dog's name?
His name is Seaman and he was in New Finland, but that's that's what they looked like back then. They weren't the they don't they looked a little different than they do today.
Like who where is this from?
That's a painting from 1804 that was at the Library of Congress.
That is incredible.
The the illustrations in this book, this is where I got a shout out. Simon and Schustster. They told me they were like, you can have 16 pages of illustrations. And I like you can see these are all paintings and pictures from Louiswis and Clark's era. So, it's very you can see the world the way the captains did. So, I thought they meant 16 pages front and back and I s sent them 32 pages and they were like, "Uh, no, that's not what we meant at all." But they let me still do the 32 pages. So, like this this book is just
this is this is like a a book for book lovers. It's it's a beautiful object and and the credit for that goes to Simon Schuster.
I mean, that's absolutely incredible. I'm so excited to dive into this as again as a history lover and and I think that a modern take on
something that everybody knows about again and like my misconception from the beginning I thought it was two guys in in Sak Jia in a canoe just like rowing this thing down the down the line. It is it does take you back to such an interesting time when people got to go on epic quests, right? Like I I always think about that in my own life. Like I try to do some like interesting stuff. Like uh last year we did a 40 mile run across uh Zion and this year we're doing a 50-mi and it's like that's my epic quest for the year. But imagine going on a 2-year expedition,
right,
into uncharted territory where like no Americans have gone before or at least not that people like could recount and talk about. Like that's just nuts to think about.
Yeah. And it it it wore on them like the Lewis chapters especially. I found this new letter from John Quincy Adams who's obviously went on to be very important himself and he had dinner with Lewis when they got back and John Quincy Adams knew Lewis and he was like I didn't even recognize this guy when he got back from the expedition. the quote what he said was he looks 15 years older. So he's gone for 2 years, he ages 15 years, but it's exactly the stuff you're talking about. Like I would love to do that, too. Like we can't really do that in the modern world. They got to do it, but they also paid the cost, the very human cost.
1 million words of Louiswis and Clark's journal. What was the biggest lesson that you learned?
The biggest thing that I took away was just that that this was a story with two sides. And like it's that can feel really modern like you know let's let's let's be diverse and include all viewpoints and and I think there's a lot of value in that but that's really the lesson from back then from 1804 when Jefferson talked about America versus the Lakota Jefferson said America was quote miserably weak. He knew that the Lakota people had tons of power. So to me what was amazing is that in this period of American history native people shaped us every bit as much as we shape native people. And I just I hope this book kind of shows people that that the past was like a two-way dynamic.
Yeah, man. I think that's so so fascinating.
It makes it a better story, too. I think like it's a it's more accurate history, but like don't we don't we all agree that like the best stories are where there's two competing sides, like a story of just Lewis and Clark and the canoe just rowing along, no trouble, that's not that good of a story. But if there if there are stakes, if there are people who care on all sides, I think it makes it more compelling.
I mean, you talk about the Game of Thrones perspective. It is the perfect analogy because okay so I uh there's five competing story lines I believe like in the first season spec specifically there's five competing story lines largely based around like the the children of the Starks and then you have like this is a very intricate game of thrones but I promise I'll land the ship but then you also have like the Baratheonss like the king and then you have um Daenerys Targaryen and like in each little micro segment there's like their own adversity where it's like main character versus their own enemies.
But like largely if you're rooting for one, then you're actually rooting against one of the other ones. And it's like
you're like, "Oh, but I want them to win, but I also want them to win and I want them to win their little mini battles." Like it's a really interesting dynamic because it's like uh the Cersei Lannister quote. It's like when you play the Game of Thrones, you either win or you die. And it's like, wow, there are all these interesting competing perspectives and it's not as simple as like black and white, right? Like, you know, this or that. It's it's a lot of competing perspectives.
That was for the listeners there. I know I have ball knowledge when it comes to Game of Thrones. We're actually in the middle of re-watching it right now. That's why I was literally just thinking through the story lines last night. So, kind of crazy that it came up today in the episode, but um that's amazing. If there was any final lesson or piece of the book that you're just really excited to share, like a specific glimpse into it that you want to share with listeners as a little teaser on why they should go pick it up and then where they can pick it up and and when.
The thing I would share is a guy we haven't even talked about yet named John Ordway cuz he was like a workingclass soldier who's from New Hampshire, but he reminds me a lot of the people I grew up. He reminds me a lot of myself just like a hardworking guy who has a job and wants to do it. And so Lewis and Clark were the ones in charge. They were making maps. They were they were enjoying a rel as they were as comfortable as you could be on an expedition like this, right? John Or was the one standing in the freezing river towing the barge reaching down to grab a bush and he pulls out a rattlesnake instead.
His life was much different than theirs. So he's one of those point of view people, too. So I, as a Midwesterner, he's not technically from the Midwest, but I think if you read the book, you'll agree with me that we can claim him. That kind of work ethic and that kind of just toughness he has.
Little blue. That is what's crazy. you think about like all the I just read um Endurance
like the book about going and exploring Antarctica and Arctic Circle and all that stuff. Um
and it's like so interesting that like the person whose name is largely on a lot of like original expeditions
had uh it's like today's CEOs, you know, it's like they're not necessarily doing like all the hard day-to-day work, but they're like orchestrating the thing, but it's like go down the the the ladder a few notches and those are the people that had it the worst, right? like with standing in the river pulling out rattlesnakes.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, so books available the 21st.
April 21st. Come see us at Wild Geese if you want to, you know, hang out with some history buffs, but any any bookstore will have it. And, uh, yeah, meet John Orway, meet Lewis, meet Clark, meet Sachu, meet New York. They're they're all great people. You'll learn a lot.
If you're a local bookstore, uh, cuz I mean, I'm sure it's going to be in all like the major bookstores, but also like independent bookstores and places like that. Like, this is an awesome who's your pickup to put in the
Absolutely. museums, anything like that. like it's it's a book I think for people who love books or people who love history and there's a lot of us out there.
Amazing. Okay, we've come to the final part of the show where we talk to uh where we ask the same three questions to every guest that comes on and obviously you are a very one of the most learned individuals I would say we've had on the show thus far even though you didn't finish the dissertation but like your mom will make sure you don't forget that. Uh but I do want to know thinking about all the places that you've been if you could scream it from the rooftops what's one thing the world needs to know about Indiana? Let's say the Jumping Frog Festival in Dillsboro. Oh,
it's a Yeah, like we've got Jumping Frogs, we've got elephant ears, we've got rides. It's a It's one of my fondest memories as a kid.
The Jumping Frog Festival,
right? So, it's kind of like a you know, your your average kind of local fair, which is great on its own, but then there's also a jumping frog festival where you never know who's going to win. So, it's uh
like what does that mean?
I mean, like it's exactly what it sounds like. Like, they line up frogs and they jump and they seem to jump the farthest.
Legit frogs, right? The Jumping Frog Festival in Dillsboro, Indiana. I love that. Okay, this is an opportunity. We have another one. You get to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to know about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana?
I think I'm going to shout out um McCormack State Park. Yeah, McCormick Street because Brown County is there and that's obviously beautiful, but we live in Bloomington kind of in the middle of of both and we find ourselves going to McCormix the most because it's it's just a little less busy and it's beautiful and they had a horrible tornado a couple years ago. They're rebuilding. Stuff is opening back up. So, I just think it's one of the best state parks in Indiana.
Yeah. Have you been to the waterfall?
Like, I kind of walked up and I saw these like little mini waterfalls and I was like, "Oh, that's what they're talking about." And then I kept going and then you get and there's like a legitimate waterfall like I don't know probably 15 20 ft in the air. It gets nuts. So cool. That place rocks. Okay. And then finally, this is where we source new guest ideas or get to learn about other Hoosiers that are doing really cool things. Who's a Hoosier we need to keep on our radar? someone who's doing big things.
I'm I'm going to say Tiffany again from Wild Geese Bookstore. She they have a little theater in Franklin which is really cute that they've renovated and she will bring in 600 700 people just for book events. She brings book writers from all over the country. People with way higher profiles than me. They come to Franklin. Readers love it. So Tiffany Wild Geese bookstore, any independent bookstore in Indiana because we have a lot of good ones, but uh Tiffany in specific because I'm going to have my event there April 21st.
Heck yeah. All right. So, the event April 21st, Wild Geese bookstore, Franklin, Indiana. You can pick up your copy of This Vast Enterprise, a new history of Louiswis and Clark. 10 different perspectives, all from 1804 to 1806, learning about that journey from down the the barge down the Ohio River, up the Missouri, and eventually to the Pacific Ocean. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing about this. Thank you for being a creative hooer that's doing amazing things. I can't wait to read this book. book. I can't wait to also listen to the audio book. 10 different voices will be really, really interesting. If people want to find you or if they want to see uh get a copy of your first book, where can they do that at?
I've got a website, just my name, craigfairman.com. You can find me on Instagram and and Twitter or X, too. So, uh come say hey. My email's on my uh on my website. I I love this state. I I love the people of this state. Shout out and say, "Hey, I'm always happy to talk to any readers, but who's your readers are my favorite."
Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on and we'll talk to you soon.
Sounds great. All right, Shane, that's a wrap on today's episode. I hope everyone enjoys uh a little bit of a a look behind the veil that is Get Indiana. Um our conversation with Craig and his book, This Vast Enterprise. I'm can't wait for the audio book there. It's get he's got like 10 different voices or whatever.
It's going to be really, really cool. We want to wrap out by saying, Shane, what have you learned about Indiana this month? One thing I learned about Indiana is I just went on for the second time now in the last four or five years uh out to Bandon, Oregon. It's like golfers paradise right on the Pacific Ocean. And so this was last week and I learned that Hoosiers are everywhere and they're always up for a conversation. And I have two examples from it.
On my flight from Indie to Denver, that was where I connected through to get out to Portland before shuttling down the coastline. Uh, a couple was sitting next to me and I was wearing the get Indiana cap with the 317 embroidered on the side and the lady's like, she recognizes the hat or at least sees the hat. She's like, "Oh, what's your connection to Indiana or or Indie and just said I've lived here for seven or eight years now and worked for this company and um asked where she and her husband were from." And she's like, "I probably haven't heard of it, but I'm from a small town called Atlanta." And I was like, "Oh, it's right by Arcadia." And she's like, "Yes, how do you know that?"
And I was like, "Two days ago, I just wrote a small town breakdown on Arcadia and everything that's going on there. The Remnant Coffee Shop, the North Brook, Northbrook Brewing Company, Beck Hybrids being right between Atlanta and Arcadia." And then her eyes lit up cuz I knew so much about Arcadia and what was around it in Hamilton County. So, we talked about Hamilton County and smalltown Indiana for that entire first leg. And this was a 6 a. m.
flight. So, normally I would be like trying to be asleep before we're off the ground. And I talked to her and her husband for
an hour and a half on that flight. It was it was so fun. And then when I got out to Bandon, we played eight rounds of golf. The very first round, I'm wearing the hat again, first round. Um,
and it's 8 in the morning out there, Pacific Coast time, and the starter was a a retired gentleman just sending you off on that first tea box and welcoming you to Bandon. uh and he sees the hat and he's like Indiana. I'm from Caramel. And he was probably in his I would say 70s or maybe even 80s at this point. Sweet old man. And he's uh he's like, "Yeah, I graduated from Carmel High School back in the 60s." And then he said Caramel back in his day. He's like, "I remember Carmel when there were corn fields in Caramel." Like, yeah, those days are long gone. But we just talked about the north side suburbs and you never know. It was fun to have those conversations and it even though I was three time zones away and
a couple thousand miles away from Indiana, still felt like I was home talking to those Hoosiers.
You never know where you're going to find a Hoosier. I love that. What I learned about Indiana this since the last time we were on here, good things happen to those people who are willing to go out and put in the work. Uh I have been so fortunate to have you know the greatest team that we have built and the greatest partners and just like people who are rooting for me. Like I don't know if anywhere else in the world people root for you like they do in the state of Indiana. They want you to win.
They're willing to go out of your their way to pave paths for you to make this attainable and for us to chase our dream. If you're an entrepreneur or you want to start a business, maybe you're still waiting. I cannot think of a better place. People are so supportive. I love it. That's thanks to all of you listeners out there.
That's thanks to all of our team. That's thanks to the Hooers, baby. Thanks for giving us stuff to make content about and, you know, keeping us employed. So, we appreciate you. I hope you have the greatest weekend ever. And we will see you next time on Get In.
This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get
