You're pulling money out of your personal checking savings account to run this big national staff. There's a big emphasis on the purpose and the people. It's what makes NCW special. Shine a light in the industry. Want to do good in the community. We want to provide real career opportunities.
What's coming up um 2025 and beyond for NCW that you're just pumped up about. From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. All right, folks. If you're in the mood for some seriously good eats, let me tell you about the HC Tavern and Kitchen in the heart of the Fischer District. It's the spot whether you're grabbing a business lunch, brunch with friends, a romantic dinner, or just hanging out and enjoying some cocktails.
They have huge culinary classics like the world famous St. Elmo shrimp cocktail and the fillet sliders, as well as dishes you can only find at the HC Tavern, like the lobster cargo and the Spanella steak. I mean, come on, does it get better than that? And you know what's awesome? It's right near all the action, close to the Fischer Event Center, IKEA, and Topgolf. So, no matter what your day is looking like, a stop at the HC Tavern and Kitchen just makes sense.
The vibe is super welcoming with a touch of class. Perfect for any occasion, whether you're out with friends or making it a date night. So, whether you're in the area looking for a fun night out or looking for a place to grab a bite after shopping, swing by the HC Tavern and Kitchen, you'll see what I'm talking about. Good vibes, amazing food, and amazing hospitality. Now, let's get back into it. Today I'm joined by Dan Mattingley, a born and raised Hoosier and a dynamic leader and the vice president and owner of NCW, an Indianapolis based staffing and recruiting firm focused on construction, engineering, manufacturing, and supply chain.
Now, Dan's intense competitive spirit and commitment to core values have made him a respected mentor and super connector in Indiana's business and entrepreneurial community. Today, we're going to be talking about the early days of NCW. They're over this is their 25th anniversary this year. And there are a bunch of fun iterations of this business in and the past 25 years. Uh we're going to talk about the the turns of uh when Dan joined the team in 2010 and what the last 15 years and some some good stories of you know startup scaleup growth and the why behind what they're doing and the people that make it happen. Uh Dan welcome to get in.
Hey thanks man I am pumped about this one. So I've known NCW. So Maddie Gaul over or no Maddie Brinkley new last name. Yeah. Takes on no one. I do it all the time.
Right. But so she started when we were both on the fellowship in or fellowship in 2019 and you guys have just been like rocking and rolling and and a company that I've seen like I don't know I don't know what the growth number is. You probably have it since 2019 but it feels like a lot of up and to the right. We've had a good run of late. I don't think it's uh she she would blush probably like I blushed when you said super connector. Uh if if I hung it all on uh Maddie start date, but she was our first war fellow and I think it's no surprise we've done a lot of war fellowship uh partnering since then.
Yeah, I love that. And if anyone they're a huge partner of mine. I always have to give the plug to the or fellowship. They do great stuff. Stephen and the crew over there are awesome. And so I've seen probably the iterations of the last six years or so of NCW, but I mean this is a 25 year old company that started back in 2000 and and you didn't join until after a decade, right?
So So talk to us a little bit about the history and I know that like staffing and recruiting and we know what that kind of looks like today, but in 2000 it's a little bit different of a market and and what kind of got NCW up off the ground. Great question. uh because it it's starts with Steve Wise and Steve oh so graciously of late takes a back seat and and showers a lot of praise on uh the people in the business every day right now but we wouldn't be here were it not for his entrepreneurial instincts and his vision he actually got in the business of construction staffing in the early 90s. Uh the really the first business to scale in construction staffing is a company called Tradesmen International. They started in Akran, Ohio and that's where Steve's from and they I don't know grew to over 100 offices at one point. He was their fifth or sixth employee in that very first office.
So he saw this industry in its infancy and helped grow tradesmen tremendously. Then he and a partner spun off and started a competitor and and Steve was minority. Uh the other gentleman had majority. Steve felt like he was noticing some scope of control issues associated with growing too fast. You know, not able to deliver on the quality promises they were making to customers. So, I promise I'll land the plane at NCW, but they were kind of running back the tradesman playbook and opening a bunch of offices, growing really fast.
Steve said, "Hey, look, one of the markets we've looked at is Indianapolis for our next location. I'm going to leave, spin off, do my own thing. I'm going to call it national construction workforce. Uh we've we've since shrunk it to NCW to maybe dilute the construction just a touch and help us better penetrate other verticals. But he started NCW, National Construction Workforce back then in 2000 because it was a market he and a partner had been looking at with their business. And his idea was just to grow a construction staffing business, you know, spin a compass 90 minutes outside of Indianapolis, really know his customers, know his employees.
He felt like it was a market that could sustain a a really nice lifestyle business and and provide a service to both sides of that equation. They had a really good run, you know, from 2000 to we'll call it 2008, even into 2009. uh they were still on a good run where they grew from you know starting day one with no employees and he's got some funny stories about uh those struggles uh to I think they peaked at about 10 or 11 in the office and maybe 175 craft laborers in the field staff to customers jobs but then the great recession hit and they they kind of got knocked flat and and I think Steve would admit some of the skills that had gotten them there maybe had atrophied a bit so they weren't able to punch back the way they would like to at that time and that's when he started looking at, you know, how can I get past this? What's what's next? Who can I bring in to help me revitalize? Okay.
So, so talk to us through how that works. Right. So, you have 10 or 15 employees in the office in those early 2000s, but then another 175, you said craft laborers. Yep. So, uh just take me through the business model and how this works. It's it's staffing and direct recruiting.
That's what we do, right? So, uh, customer needs talent and we're trying to, um, provide a service in that scenario. And we provide it one of two ways. We either find that talent and put it directly on the customer's payroll, uh, for a onetime fee or we find that talent and we put them on our payroll, W2 employee to us. We, you know, full full uh, employer taxes associated with that relationship and and provide full benefits, something we're still really proud of today in the staffing space, providing full benefits. And in that case, we then bill hourly our customer for that individual services.
So because of the industry particularly they were serving at that time, you know, I would refer to it as graph laborers, you know, electricians, pipe fitters, plumbers, people that build things that we all benefit from. I mean, it's no different than a lot of massive staffing businesses and direct recruiting businesses that are out there serving other verticals. I just I had no idea. I guess I thought you see a construction site and you like Sheil Sexton in town, right? It's like when you see SHIEL, I was just like, "Oh, those are all just Shield employees there, like full-time, like that's what they do." But that makes a lot of sense.
It's like, okay, if you have an eight-month project or whatever, it's like you need to increase workforce, get the project done, and then you're like, "Oh, maybe we don't have work in in Lafayette anymore, like we're going to Bloomington or we're going somewhere else." And you have to kind of like I don't know, that workforce management part of it is hard. Yeah. You said a key word there, project, right? If you look at the industries beyond the ones that we serve that are conducive to third-party talent firms, they're very project based. Like you just said, they're often seasonal.
They're maybe hyper cyclical. You know, there there are these reasons why the enduser of the labor says, "I don't want to hire them." And then potentially have to fire them. I have this peak that I need to solve for and I need to solve for it quickly without compromising quality. Um so that's why it and and healthcare and accounting and other industries are um you know full of of firms providing a similar service to what we provide in construction and there's a lot of other companies out there doing it in construction manufacturing engineering and supply chain. So 10 years what national construction workforce was a mouthful that's I love that you need a bigger business card like a full index card to fit that one all the way across the top right.
Um, so that's going for 10 years. Then, um, Steve starts to look of like, okay, how are we going to get through this? We kind of got, you know, you get punched in the face, that's entrepreneurship, right? Y, how do you end up getting at the time, right? If it's not doing kind of drugged into this thing and, you know, trying to figure out how to, you know, take it to the next level. I grew up around construction, uh, born and raised here in Indiana.
A lot of my family is in that space. So, uh, brother runs a construction company, uh, commercial general contractor. I've got two uncles that founded and have grown and have brought family in to commercial general contractors. Another one has a landscape uh firm. Another one was a highway engineer is a highway engineer. None of them are Dan Mattingly of Mattingly Concrete.
I need to say because I get asked about that more than anyone. They do a fantastic job of marketing. They've got the marketing concrete marketing concrete down. These are they're separate families. Separate families. I cannot claim Mattingly Concrete.
Everyone probably listen from this podcast. I'll get you a discount at Matt. Yeah. Everyone was listening, they're like, "Oh, yeah. Family course." Yeah.
No, but other really good businesses, and I'll let them speak for themselves, but um I grew up doing some general labor. I I also did a lot of golf jobs because my dad was a golf pro, retired as a golf pro, but I a few times did some general labor on those job sites. And I always joke they scared me straight. Uh, I wanted nothing to do with that because, you know, as my uncles loved to point out, I didn't have enough calluses on my hands. So, I went to school and got a degree in finance, degree in econ and went down that path. Some buddies as we were graduating were getting into, uh, you know, auditing or analyst jobs, entry- level jobs you get out of school.
And I got an internship with Morgan Stanley, uh, super glorified title as a finance intern, which meant I was a cold caller for a private wealth group, uh, in Chicago. I didn't know what I was talking about. I didn't know why people were coming to these seminars, but color me a massochist. I thought it was fun. I was on the phone all day talking to people uh who maybe had money on behalf of people who drove fancy cars and wore nice suits and uh it was my entry into sales. Uh but I liked financial services end of sales.
I did see value in that, you know, relationship and being someone's trusted adviser. Uh my wife now was then my high school and college sweetheart. we wanted to be back in Indianapolis and I knew some uh folks from the, you know, Indianapolis uh six degrees of connections that were doing really well at Northwestern Mutual. They brought me into their business uh because of who I grew up around. I was there for five and a half years. Loved that business, got a CFP and went through their FastTrack program and was building this business.
But all of my clients were small contractors in the area because of who I could network through, because of who I grew up around. And one of them referred me to another one who referred me to Steve Weise of NCW. So I met him I think in 2007. By 2008 2009 we were managing their you know health insurance or 401k retirement college planning insurance all that stuff. And I just loved being around Steve and I liked that business and felt like I could help. So that's how we met and I think his wheels were turning uh around what I might be able to do with those skills and relationships and we made it happen.
In 2010, my wife and I, in a self- aacing way, we we called it decision 2010 because that's when LeBron was doing his thing, leaving Cleveland the first time. Uh, and and it was much less fantastic. We would instead of have, you know, a live TV news special with Chris Bosch and Dwayne Wade, we just walked around the neighborhood with our dog, but we made the decision after months of asking a lot of questions and took the leap in September 2010. All right. So September of 2010, you you come and join National Construction Workforce or NCW as you call it. Before we get there, we're gonna brief hold that.
So five and a half years at Northwestern Mutual. Yes. Northwestern Mutual kind of gets a bad rap. Like the internship program, right, where it's like they get all the college kids that come in and sell two policies to their uncles and aunts and whatnot and then they leave and never come back and all of a sudden I I get like a thousand calls every summer. My number is still getting trickled down through my fraternity house. and they're like, "Well, okay, if you don't want to meet, do you know three friends or this, that, or the other thing?"
I understand that perception, but when I look at what that training gave me, not dissimilar from what I bet someone would say who came out of the Cutco system, I would be completely disingenuine if I threw any shade. Um, I I think they provide a fantastic service. I still uh work very closely and NCW proper works very closely with our Northwestern Mutual Advisor. uh those guys do a great job, but I understand where you're coming from if if those skills are misapplied. Um you you got to get outside of you know the the natural network as fast as you can and some people don't and that's what you know wears out the network but um they provide great training in terms of sales training. They provide a great service.
Um and I'm I'm proud of having come up in that system. I love that cuz I do agree. If you find a young sales rep and it's like you could train them on your own like at a startup, you know, and like maybe you're an all right salesperson, right? But if you grab someone who has two years of Cutco or two years of uh Northwestern Mutual like that know about ripping cold calls and like like finding their way to yes and finding their way to meetings and being resilient, they it is incredible sales training. I mean, you get told no a lot. Yeah.
I I back to the OR fellowship, we we have, you know, resume search is a component of that process when you first get the big download. I'd be a liar if I said I didn't look for Northwestern Mutual and Cutco when I'm sifting through resumes. We we train on so many of their core selling principles now at NCW. And if we're doing something right enough to be sitting here today, um, a lot of that comes from those, not just that system, but those, you know, individual uh, people, you know, the Phil Clark and Damon Failen and Jack Piers, the GOAT, and Mike McInley and all those guys who, you know, taught me the right way to do it. I love that. I I think this the one thing I'll the last thing I'll say about this, uh, we had a Cutco guy in from Chitaard and they are the greatest marketed like referral network marketing company.
So, at the end of the session, like it goes for an hour or whatever, and like during it, I have to like check in so he gets paid based on the app, you know, like he has to do a 90-minute appointment or whatever with me. And I'm like, "Oh, I want him to get his meeting so he gets a scholarship or yada yada yada." At the end, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. At the end, he's like, "Do you have like five people that would have a good conversation?" The kid was awesome. I was like, "Oh, yeah.
Like, a few of my buddies would love this." Syncs to my contacts on my phone. I click five names and I press go and and I took a selfie with the kid. I was like like putting a thumbs up and it creates five text chains between me, him, and my buddies saying like with the autoscripted message like this this is my Cutco guy. I bought a knife from him. He's great.
And then the bottom is a picture of me in the thumbs up. And I was just like they're like wow you must really like this guy. You wrote a really nice message about him. And I was like it was autofill. Like it just put and it was crazy. I you are you are right now in real time writing a section of Mattiey's strategic plan because we you know we talk about recruiters and referrals all the time and sidebar I know I'm only supposed to listen to the get in podcast but I do listen to how I built this all the time as well and uh they recently reaired uh Bombas and one of them spent a lot of time in uh talking in that podcast about all the good things the Cutco system gave him.
Uh, so way bigger businesses than NCW have benefited from that sort of training and I'm super proud of it. I love that. I think that's good and I do think they get a bad rap, but like the resilience and the leadership in training that and that bad rap isn't all unfair, right? I know that was a double negative, but I I get it. Um, but it it should be um it should be repositioned if you're giving me the mic. 2010, you make the decision.
Yes. To take your talents Yes. to National Construction. Angola Court. took my talents to Angola Court, the northwest side of India. Heck yeah.
And day one, you come in, it's a 10 15 person business still. What? No sir. No. Uh yeah. Now because again that was peak, right?
And and they were project based business. Their clients had a lot of good projects that started to burn off in 2009. So by 2010, Steve uh he he's a great storyteller, probably better than I. And he um says he tells his his version of the decision. And the other side of the coin is he kept going home in 2010 and telling his wife, I think he's going to come and I don't know why. You know, we're circling the drain right now.
That's just classic Steve, if you know him. But yeah, when I came, they had uh I was the fourth employee in the office and they had I think 27 people uh working in the field. Was it um did you come to as like a job or did you say like, "Hey, do you want to like buy in and be a part owner of this thing?" Yeah, he Steve was was gracious and uh gave me a a nice title. I had an opportunity, a little bit of equity that I could earn if we hit benchmarks uh sweat equity sort of schedule. You know, might not have been what some of the other folks wanted to hear.
So, we went from four on my first day to three on my second day. Wait, we lost 25% of our workforce. You guys shows up and like, "Yep, not working with that guy." Yeah. Well, I don't I hope it wasn't that. I think just I feel passed over.
I could have fixed this myself. I think was more the vibe and and more power to that individual. They've gone out and done their own thing. We went from four to three. Uh and uh off we went. You come home after making the decision for Well, yeah, sweetheart.
We lost a quarter of the company today. Yeah. Doing great. I'm cooking as the kid said. Yeah. Okay.
So, you joined and and what were you focused on selling? Was that like right off the gates like let's go out and drum up some new business? Well, what they call it in our space is I was focused on a full desk. So, I'm selling and recruiting. Um, but I was also focused on office management and all the other things because um, yes, we had some some staff and and they had done some good things, but we we were in very much rebuilding mode. Yeah, we started with a focus on local Indianapolis.
You know, that's where we had good relationships where our story would resonate. U, but this is now fall of 2010. Things were still pretty slow for commercial industrial construction. Yet, there were some forces nationally that were driving large projects and that hit our radar. I mean, as simple as we subscribe to construction periodicals and you'd read about, oh, there's big, you know, there's maybe only one strip mall in town being built right now in Indianapolis, but there's massive commercial industrial projects being built all over the country. Let's let's go talk to those people.
And Steve was really good about making sure we didn't abandon the lessons he felt like he learned during his early career about growing too fast, growing national too fast, not being able to mind scope of control issues and delivering on promises that you're making to customers in a business that's really hard to deliver on promises to begin with, even if it's in your backyard. I mean, these are human beings you're counting on to do. But they show up for work, right? That's right. That's right. Like I think that's the stick them there when they're in Indianapolis, Indiana, much less when they're in northern Colorado.
Yeah. And it's like you make a promise like, "Hey, we need, you know, we need 10 carpenters to show up, right?" And it's like, "Oh, I I can get you 10 carpenters. You get 10 carpenters to agree like, oh yeah, I want a job and I want to get paid for this." And then like car breaks down this, that, the other thing. And like six of them show up and they're like, "Where are my other four?"
And you're like, "Well, Johnny's dog ate his homework or whatever." Right? like this, that, and the other thing. Like that's hard. Being in the human capital space is not easy. Yeah.
Uh I love that old show, Swamp People. I remember where they hunt alligators. Yeah. And and there was a uh in their opening montage, one of them on the mic says, "You think you can come out here and do it? Good luck to you." In his like cinjun accent, it's kind of the way I feel when you're telling that story, right?
Like um yeah, it's humbling. Uh it's humbling uh over and over and over again, but it's also super rewarding. I mean, you're building cool things in your community and you're giving people jobs and you're, you know, trusted vendor partner providing solutions to big contractors in the marketplace. So, the the initial thing you come in year one and it's like not a ton going on in Indie from Yeah. commercial constructions place. So, we're going Nashville, Denver.
Where are we headed to? There was a lot going on out west in like the Rocky Mountain region. That was our first big foray into national operations. But we also again I think some of the things they had some of the pain locally had been self-inflicted and I know Steve would say that. So we were rebuilding locally um and starting to grow nationally and and it worked and also the market turned right. It worked pretty famously.
We we grew really fast out of the gates. What was the first big win where you got to come like after you you know you lose 25% of the staff day one. How long was it till you came home and you're like holy smokes we got something? Yeah. Uh it was Christmasish. There was there was a big um a big project being built at Cumins that we earned a nice uh piece of.
So it was a cool local story. And then we got a meeting. I mean again I I came up in that system of cold calling. So I would read these construction magazines and they would say this is the biggest contractor in the country and I'd do a little research online and figure out who runs their manpower and just call them up. And one of those, I mean, you get told no so many times, but one of those took an early meeting um and and they were building these um large uh wind turbines uh in northern uh Colorado and and we got to provide a bunch of labor for that. And then that same contractor uh put us on a a large uh cheese plant in also in northern Colorado.
And then we have this you have a a flag planted, a little bit of a beach head built on we do national now. And you can you can you know parlay that into but you're all based here in Indie at that time. So you're doing workout in Colorado. You're getting the cheese plant in the winter. Lo Man Lino is like the Willy Wonka of cheese apparently. Yeah.
There you go. The more you know. Get Colorado new podcast. That's right. This episode was brought to you by our friends at Greeks Pizza. Greeks has been a great partner of mine.
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com. Order pizza today. Okay. So, you're you're starting to get a few of those early wins. Uh you know, working down was it down in Columbus for Cummins or I think it was Seymour. Oh, okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Um so, you're getting some of these early wins. Does the team start growing like like how do you start and how do you think about I don't know where you were but like managing people is always an interesting learning curve right of bringing up people and building culture uh especially you know you have kind of like two sides of your your house right it's like you have all your labor you call them craftsmen we craft labor craft labor yes right so you have the craft labor side and then you have the inoff NCW today we've taken to call it production and operations right so production is selling and recruiting. Operations is everything else that keeps the train running on time, you know, from safety to payroll to invoicing to marketing, uh, etc. , HR.
So, we needed all of that and we had none of that. And, um, yeah, we just knew, like you said, we had some early wins, enough that we felt like this could work and the market was starting to turn. Uh, managing people is hard. you just alluded to there's all the you know the different components of systems uh that they need to be able to run on on your behalf and the culture that you're uh bringing them into and I won't rewrite the story and say that we had you know a real thoughtful approach to that back then particularly we um just called buddies that we could trust that we knew worked hard and told them to come to NCW and help us build I think that those initial hires coming through like your immediate sphere and your like second or first degree second degree whatever where it's like oh this person's looking for they do really good job. Like, come on in. What I think is the secret sauce to good from the someone who's not in the industry, but I think the secret sauce to staffing is how do you sell NCW to the craft labor?
Yeah. Like any like they could they could sign their letter of intent to any staffing company and maybe I don't know if they can or do or I don't know how that part works, but you have to you have to convince them that you're going to put them in the best spot. And especially when you're joining your payroll, it's like it's all based on that like the spread margin there, right? So it's like, are they getting a fair deal? Do they trust you? Are they going to show up for work for you?
Like that's hard. Like the the temporary the the labor there. How do you guys think about that? Yeah, Steve uh instilled some really good uh values, you know, guiding principles there. I think he also gave us some good talk track there. um because that's always been really important to him.
You know, making sure that the craft labor is is accounted for in every decision we make. I I alluded to it earlier. It's one of the big reasons why we still provide full benefits to that workforce. But how how do you do it? I mean, it's it's a relationship business and relationship is based on trust and trust is, you know, forged in live human interaction. So, we're still old school picking up the phone as recruiters calling the craft laborers saying, you know, hey, I'm I'm Dan.
I want to be your guy. I want to be your agent. I I think you should work here. Let me tell you about the customers we work with. Let me tell you about the projects we're building. You know, we have built a brand that allows us to build a rate such that we can pay you fairly and provide you benefits.
And this doesn't have to be, you know, a temporary arrangement. We have people who come and stay and move around project to project to project. They like working here. They like I mean, I'm that way. I like having a guy, right? So, if I'm the craft labor, I like having a recruiter I can count on, you know, an agent who handles my stuff because they do.
Our our recruiters and their supporting cast, you know, these recruiting coordinators, they um provide, you know, some white glove service that a pipe fitter might not get elsewhere. Yeah. And I think that when you really get down to it, a lot of people are, oh, it's recruiting, you know, but it's like your recruiting side is in charge of making sure that these people have work to make money to feed their families. That's a that's a big responsibility. I know a lot of people like their first job out of college can end up being like a recruiter and they're like, "Okay, I'm just like calling people and trying to fill these roles and it's like you are, but like when you fill that role, like everything that comes with that is like someone's life and well-being." Like that's like a pretty powerful first job.
We we describe it as uh it's like two agents at the negotiating table, right? There's the business development rep who made a promise to the contractor like this is what we will deliver and this is how they'll perform and and they are beholden to those commitments and then you've got a recruiter who did the same to the craft laborer and at times that can create a healthy degree of friction. You join the company December, you got some coming, you know, you got those deals coming in, you got the cheese money coming in, everything from there, right? The next 15 years are just up into the right. Right. Right.
Yeah. Rocket ship. Yeah. Uh yeah, we we had some a good uh first few years. So late 2010 came in, learned the business and start to take off. 2011 was a great year.
2012 was a solid year. By 2013, I knew everything there was to know about everything. And uh and you were the greatest the greatest recruiting uh leader that has ever existed, right? So talk to me, right? You were pretty transparent before we got on here of like there was some hubris that comes like with early success and I think that's uh one powerful that you you know uh what 10 years later can say that yeah you know I had a little bit of hubris that may have got in the way and and so just talk to us about what was going on in that 2013 time frame. Yeah, well it was a matter of years.
It started in 2013 and we struggled for a couple years after that. And yes, Steve was there uh supporting me through it all, but all the decisions we made that wound up being painful were uh you know, spearheaded by me. And I'll always be grateful for how he had my back and helped me work through them. It's a whole another podcast like how did NCW almost die? Uh is we don't have time for all the layers to it. got us into uh some businesses alto together outside of our core competency.
Uh got us into uh trying to create our own product uh by training craft labors. I mean uh you know training and delivering education is a whole business in itself you know and we are really good at selling and recruiting you know managing both sides of that negotiating table. Um, we weren't really good at delivering, you know, from ground zero to full-blown journeyman crafts person, but we got a state a grant from the state of Indiana, uh, and said that we were going to do it, right? So, training, other contracting businesses, tapping into our labor altogether. Uh, the the most painful one, which I think connects most to almost being like addicted to scaling at that point, is we got into selling labor at a fixed price, right? So, so when we're staffing, we might not perform and thus not get called back again by the customer, but you're typically billing every hour, you know, and and thus you always know how you're doing.
We got into a space with a partner who who I think had a big part in misleading us about how easy it was going to be, but you know, hey, we'll give you all the labor on this job for a a fixed price and if you can perform it for less than that and and it's a contractor by another name. And we were still learning at that point how to be a big staffing firm. We we were not prepared to be a contractor. But because it was isolated to just labor, I think it felt different and we didn't realize how hard it was going to be until we were kneede in it. But we took on several projects. I mean, I'm talking like uh slab deck table form high-rise construction in South Beach where we are owning all the labor and um we almost got crushed.
And so you just get out your out over your skis a little bit on that sense, right? you're supplying all the labor and and I think there's this healthy balance, right? Like if truly entrepreneurial people, you have to be thinking about what's next and how you diversify and how you try to build this massive thing and and there's a healthy amount of risk. That was therapeutic you saying, right? There's there's a healthy amount of risk in entrepreneurship and and again, we talked about with with Steve like what got you here won't get you there. But then there's sometimes where you try to take on too much and and you kind of have to get back to like what makes you great and what your your big thing is.
And so where was the moment where you go home or whatever you do that you're just like this is overwhelming and I'm stressed and I don't know we got to figure out what to do to get back on on track. There were moments where we rooted really hard for the mailman to come uh because we thought we were going to collect a bunch of checks that week, right? There were there were moments where I came home to Jill who who has always Allah what I said about Steve but and then some always had my back but I came home to Jill with a version you know the selling instincts kicked in. I was like hey no big deal but I've just got to pull a little bit of money out of our account to you know help help with payroll. I mean it's not even it's not even really necessary. It's more of a buffer.
Uh we needed every cent that week. you're pulling money out of your personal checking savings account to run this big national staff and Steve was doing the same. I I I would be absolutely doing him a disservice. He did he did the same and and to a much greater degree over and over and over again because we believed and we were going I'm crescendoing to the moment. But there were so many moments. I mean we were in downtown Chicago singing for our supper in front of special assets.
I learned what that means with your bank when you're in front of special assets. It means you're about to get foreclosed on. But uh hey sing it for our supper. Put your sales shoes on. Uh you learn how I mean it's almost like an MBA with a finance emphasis. You learn how to organize your numbers and tell your story and tell it with honesty but also conviction.
And we got out of special assets. Uh but the moment true story we we we have five children and three of them were sleeping in the same room at that time. It wasn't a very big room. We loved it. I I wish for those days all the time, but there was a very frustrating phone call with that customer we were doing business with in South Beach, and it was late at night. It was probably 10:00.
I'm intense. Uh I can be, but I'm not a yelling screamer. But I was in my garage at probably 10 p. m. because I didn't want to wake the kids yelling and screaming at this customer. It didn't end the way I wanted to.
I went into their bedroom. It's dark. They're sleeping. You can kind of hear whoever's got the sniffles that week, hear their breath. and I just stood and got really still for several minutes and um just kind of washed over me like I'm losing sight of what's really important. It's okay to say this isn't going to work.
Came back in the next day, marched into Steve's office with a plan on how we were going to uh spinning off all the things we've gotten into and getting back to what works for us and if somebody was going to, you know, uh come off come after us legally for an obligation that we were no longer going to honor. most notably that South Florida work. You know, we would deal with that as it comes. And again and again and again, he had my back and and we wound up getting out. But that that was the moment for me. Um just getting real still after uh an argument in the garage.
Yeah. Like little chills on the back of the neck there. Everyone talks about the troubles and the struggles of entrepreneurship and some of it ends up being, you know, you're trying to grow and you do have this whether it's hubris or just like for like you're trying to build something special and you take on a lot of stuff because you think you can conquer the world and and a lot of entrepreneurship problems end up being semi self-inflicted, you know, of like trying to do something and then you have to get back to what you guys are good at. So, when did you guys kind of strip some of that stuff off and get back to the staffing and recruiting side of it? What's so frustrating in hindsight is NCW proper, like our core business, never really struggled. It was just underserved by me and others around me that were feeling pressure to get involved in all these hairbrain schemes.
But it it has never lost money and it and it always grew. I'm really proud of this team and I'll I'll answer the question, but I'm kind of painting the backdrop. I mean, in the 15 years we've been working together, our our average growth rate is is really strong throughout, not just pre that period and post that period. Um, it was a lot of other entities that got in the way that I had pushed us into. But the answer to the question was like late 15, early 16. Um, we got out of a lot of that and refocused and started to take off.
Yeah. And take off you definitely have, right? I think I have a stat here. from 2020 to 2022, 142% growth on the revenue side. Like that's pretty I mean that's just some numbers that I pulled, but that's pretty impressive. I think what headcount what were what were you guys at when Maddie joined in 2019?
I can't remember. Um not that many. Not that many. Yeah, not that many for sure. We I think the 15 years we've been working together, we've averaged just under 40%. But we've taken some really big leaps these last few.
And when did you start spinning up actual uh offices in new markets? Forayas into that along the way like like uh more projectbased we'd plant a flag around a big job. Not necessarily declaring we'd be there forever in all the way back to 2012. But we started opening offices that we intended to, you know, build an organic footprint around and use as a launchpad for the national business we were doing. Uh right about that same time we really got serious about it. What was the first market like official beach head somewhere else that you guys open?
Yeah, I think the first one that that we went back to Denver. Um Charlotte was a big early win for us. Uh a little bit of presence in Louisville for a while. We realized we can serve that from Indianapolis and the and the key talent that we wanted to build around down there. Wanted to be in Indianapolis and that's awesome. I love Indie.
So, uh we we had Louisville for a bit. Uh but I'd say Charlotte and Denver and now we have you know uh Phoenix and uh Southbend and Salt Lake City and uh Fort Worth. Well, and give us a scope, right? So you when you start there's four employees down to three. Uh starts to grow, you start stacking more like operational like NCW proper employees. What is that?
What were some of the big benchmarks that you guys hit throughout the years and where are you at now from a headcount perspective? Again, it's contract labor, you know, it's staffing. So, and its project cyclical, seasonal, all that stuff I said about the drivers behind the service in general. So, with that comes some fluidity, but we've been between, you know, 1500 and 2,000 craft labors on payroll uh for a while now. We have about 140 maybe across the offices. Bulk of that is in Indie.
You know, uh we're really proud of our roots in central Indiana and South Broadripple particularly. And uh so a lot of that uh is is here but that's that's the size in terms of of headcount today and and there were a lot of oh phases of the business. I think more recently what I'm proud of is we've we've really built out operationally these platforms that will help us, you know, have been helping us already take the next leaps and I think are a big part of why we feel we can accelerate growth because, you know, we've kind of grown into our uh shoes on the HR and payroll and accounting and and marketing and internal learning and development, all that all that stuff. There's a big emphasis on the purpose and the people, right? That's what makes NCW special. Uh so, so what do you feel like when when people wake up every day and come to work at NCW, like what's the the values that you're trying to instill in your employees that are going out there and spreading the good word?
Yeah, we try to be really intentional about when we talk about growth, it's literally starting any sentence like that, you know, guided by our core values, whatever else about growth. If you ask me about purpose, I need to start with core values. We had a mission statement that I helped write when I first came that I don't think was as pliable as we needed to be when we got into some of these other lines and and verticals and subverticals, but also it just wasn't as practical and I don't think it was as authentic because it was, you know, it came from just ownership. So when you talk about purpose, you know, we do have a set of core values and they were written, I think in 2017 by a committee uh that came from across the company at that time. They checked in with drafts with ownership to make sure, you know, everybody was calibrated and and moving in the same direction. But I think because they bubbled up and didn't, you know, come down the mountain on a tablet from Steve and I is what's given them staying power and it's made them real living breathing guidepost strategically and tactically, you know, in terms of what we do and how we do it.
So the core values are a big part and we try and control our environment for success by having those core values plastered plastered around all of our offices and all of our important meeting spaces. I think beyond the core values, we've really calcified around this, you know, long-term goal. They they they teased that it it was the manifesto in spring of 2022. When we started to answer those questions to companywide as to who we want to be when we grow up, why all the growth, those long-term objectives talk a lot about we want to do more good in our community. We want to shine a light on the industries we serve. You know, we know to grow.
Part of that is is self-promotion, but we want our our public online footprint to be, you know, less and less overtime like we did it again, y'all. more about like look at the cool things happening in our industry. Look at what our customers are doing. Look at what they're, you know, building, moving, making, uh, designing. Um, so we want to shine a light on the industries. We want to do good in the community.
We want to provide real career opportunities to people, uh, in our organization so they can build a life here and a really big career here that one they dreamed of. Um, you've got all that or fellowship talent. They they they they uh push and that's cool. And lastly, I think why we want to grow and why, you know, we or one of the ways we're guided by those core values. We just like competing. You know, we like it's one of the ways you can compete is to go out and get more deals.
There's a few businesses where there's like the scoreboard that's always there, right? And it's like, are you closing more deals and getting more at bats and are you getting the talent side, right? Like there's a really really big score like two-sided scoreboard in the recruiting and staffing space. And if you're like a competitor or an ex- alathlete, which people need to know, golfer loyal in Chicago, they don't need to know that. They need to know. We can check the box.
Yeah. Right. What's the handicap? Oh my god. A zillion now. I've got five kids.
I played six times last year. I'm I'm a shadow of my former self. But one day I'll I'll start playing. Yeah. One day. Right.
That's the back to retirement. But but when you're a competitor, right, like that's a good business to get into because you can see the scoreboard and you can tell if you're winning. Like one thing I love about like kind of working in media, right? Is it's views and followers on one side and it's, you know, new advertisers and sponsors on the other side and it's like I appreciate how you've been asking questions today that imply, you know, that this industry is outside of your purview, but to be real clear, we didn't invent it. So to the point of competing, um there's a lot of people to chase, you know, that that have been doing it long before we got here and at a bigger scale and they still are and that's cool. Uh we like having somebody to chase.
They've had it too long. Yeah. and in different verticals I think is really cool like Broadriple area is kind of a hub for staffing like if you look over here where our 811 group those guys are great role models so Hasbro is coming on the show in a few weeks and they have an interesting story too and they're like in the IT tech space and some of that and they did a lot with healthcare but I've primed the pump very similar business model uh but different verticals yeah and much bigger and uh that's a cool story and then if you drive in Broadripple you can see their massive like fourstory new office here. That's pretty cool. But no, I I think it's super cool. And and Dan Hannerhan is uh he's in the office above us.
Dan's awesome. Yeah. And he was like employee one at Brooks Source back in the day. So he got his jobs like in the recruiting staffing and standing up these new markets and this whole national experience. So like there's a lot of ties to people that are doing cool stuff in Indiana even if they get out of staffing that have ties and roots in the staffing industry. So I just think it's it's take that Silicon Valley staffing hub.
Take that. Yes, the staffing hub of America, staffing valley, right? We're working on something there. So, when you think through I do want to know, can you can you share the core values? Deep rooted partnerships because they all have their supporting statements, right? Deeply rooted partnerships is about treating our customers goals as our own.
Uh more than a voice behind a call uh kind of the candidate facing version of that, right? We do a lot of our business on the phone, but we never want the candidate to feel like they're just a number, right? We we want to invest in their um you know goals and objectives. We know that it's a two-way street in terms of a vet. We never want them to feel like we're up on a judicial bench on high looking down at them, comparing them to a position description, finding them wanting or not. Going beyond our walls is about doing good in our community.
We have you belong was our sixth core value. And I think it branched off from fiercely protective of the NC family. Um, fiercely protective of the NCW family. I think when it was first written was about I'll come back to you belong because I think you can't tell that story without fiercely protective but fiercely protective of the NCW family was about I think mostly making sure our craft laborers came home with all their fingers and toes. I mean it's we've got a cool office. It's no it's no 811 group but uh you know there's there's a gym and there's beer and you you fresh paint job.
I think I paint job. That's right. There's a there's painting going up. Yeah. We've we've been fortunate to you know buy some Jason ground building a campus. there's a walking path, all that stuff, right?
That that gives you the necessary pressure release valves if you're going to push someone as hard as we try and push people. It's a real humbling experience when you're in that environment and you find out someone, you know, broke a bone on a job that you put them on trying to put food on their table so you can put food on your table, right? That that will center you up really quickly. So, so fiercely protective, I think, when first written was about making sure we're empowering that labor to work safely and we're partnering the right way. It then became, I think, a little more office staff facing. And as you know, the backdrop of civil unrest and COVID and and uh, you know, light was shined on some systemic inequities in our country, we decided we needed a new core value.
We added you belong, which is just about being able to bring your whole self to work. Um, and and making sure you understand if you've got the goods and you're kind and you're working hard, we don't care about any of that stuff. And there's a DEI council internally that that keeps us honest there. And then the last one is a will to win. A will to win is about like constantly learning this this delicate balance between uh confident and coachable. It's why a will to win is is one of the things that keeps us coming back to the or fellowship, right?
You know, because I think if you hire properly, which we now have internal TA, so we recruit for our customers, but internal TA team, which is growing fast. um they do a great job of making sure they're out there shopping for what we refer to as those like genetic markers for grit that will will uh instill in someone before they come to NCW a will to win. And if you do that right, just get out of their way and and and that one kind of takes care of itself. But that's the six core values. So fiercely protective, uh deeper partnerships, more than voice beyond a call, you belong going beyond our walls and a will to win. All right, folks.
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Head to warmglow. com to check out all their amazing scents. Now, let's get back to the episode. All great core values. Thank you. And I'm not going to give you the softball like which one is your favorite, but I'm going to ask you this question.
Cool. Which core value from NCW has made the biggest impact in your personal life? Like something that you look back to that you, you know, was made through the company side that in your everyday life as you're out there being a dad, being a friend, being a husband that you look back on and like I need to be fiercely loyal in this or I need to be have this will to win. Because they're so important to us and to me by extension. any version of a question asking me to bring one to the forefront feels like I'm selecting which is my favorite child but I will answer a question I think if you're if you're which one has been um most influential in my personal life instantly I go to going beyond our walls right because I I live here I love Indianapolis I love Indiana and we feel proud of what we've already done with Habitat for Humanity or um St. Vincent Dep Paul, shout out Mary Labuzz or you know the the mini marathon and second helpings any number at GG's Playhouse.
But as as uh Simon Synynic says I feel like you know tip of the iceberg there. We want to do a lot of good in the community and I hope the people at NCW our collective spirit and energy does so much good in the community that I feel that all the time in my personal life long term. Great answer. Thanks. Great, great, great. It's the 25th anniversary of NCW.
You've been there for going on 15 years. What gets you the most excited? Like what's coming up um 2025 and beyond for NCW that you're just pumped up about? The collection of talent and their goals and ambitions and making sure we deliver on promises we made to them when they decided to come here. It it's exciting. It's a it's a knife's edge between exciting and uh exhausting or intimidating, right?
You got you got to make sure that uh you can honor those promises and provide a platform for career development. But that the talent we have collected at NCW is exciting and it pushes me and uh that would be an obvious answer. Well, it's been nine ten years since you kind of started to diversify and do some different things. Here you are 9 years later, things are going well, but you I mean as as a leader, you have to be thinking about what comes next. What innovations are we doing? Has balancing previous experiences with what's on the like how are you thinking of balancing that?
And is there new ways that you want to like new areas you want to dip into and go grow into, but you're a little bit hesitant based on what's happened in the past? Yes, is the shortest answer. Um Tim Ferrris, investor and author and podcast. I don't even really know what he is, but he's Tim Ferris, right? He's everything. Nebulous business, world champion, ballroom dancer.
Didn't know that. Uh but what he's known for in my head is uh if it's not a hell yes, it's a no. you know, we have been approached with opportunities to get into staffing or recruiting in verticals way outside of our backyard. Uh my my college buddy likes to call what we do, you know, all the hammer swinging stuff. Like if it's too far outside of the hammer swinging stuff, it's not for us. Um which is cool because the hammer swinging stuff is not for everybody in terms of the risk that come along with it.
So there's at least a shred of blue water in that sense. There are subverticals, you know, there's a lot of cool stuff going on in advanced manufacturing. you know, the chips act is going to have a lot to say about mega construction and and we haven't done as much in that semiconductor space. We are really starting to penetrate uh renewable energy. I think we have a lot of room to run in manufacturing and engineering. We've got a good brand and supply chain, but manufacturing, engineering, uh there there's geographic markets that are very conducive to staffing where some of those folks who got a start earlier than us uh that we're chasing, you know, we can we can penetrate those those markets.
So, so I would say keeping it within the hammer swing and stuff that we really do well, but looking for subverticals and and niches and geographic markets and going pedal down. Yeah. And it's so interesting, right? these traditionally bluecollar spaces are becoming more and more rare uh from like the talent perspective. One of my one of my wrestlers uh just instead of going to college which like everyone should start I think they have like 100% college acceptance rate or something like that right and everyone usually goes to college he chose to go join the Gayler Electric apprenticeship program and it's like vast I mean he's like 19 now but vastly out earning other 19year-olds that are and has like a future career path. The story is real.
Oh my gosh. Um, you know, they're they're going to start out with a livable wage and really quickly accelerate well beyond that with zero debt and a bunch building again cool things in their community, getting paid to learn the the skills of the trade. And this goes beyond construction to those other verticals that you know manufacturing is another obvious example within the industries we serve. Um but yeah, you can you can be in your early 30s, mid30s earning six figures, sometimes well into if you get into, you know, frontline leadership, the the foreman, the shop shop foreman or construction craft foreman, superintendent, etc. You start blending in perks, uh along with your wage and overtime and zero debt. Um and again, that that says nothing.
That's all like the balance sheet side of the equation. That says nothing of just the rewarding sense of building things. Well, I mean, you guys are out there talking to tons of people in that skilled labor market there, right? That's what recruiting staffing, like those are the people, the hammer swingers you're going to find. But there's a lot of parents, I think, that listen to this show that might have, you know, 14, 15 year old kids. It feels like a lot of this generation is pushed like you have to go to college.
Correct. So, like what would you say to the parents out there that might have the kid that just like doesn't like school and like not liking school is different than like they're going to they're doing well like they probably have A's, B's, whatever. They could go to college if they want to, but maybe the kid is interested in pursuing this other side. What would you say to those parents? I think what I would say is at least do the math and make an educated decision because I am I've been doing this as you said now going on 15 years and I'm surprised by how off of people's radar it is just how much money you can earn with zero debt and just how much career mobility there is and upward mobility and that. So at least do the math.
I mean um my oldest is is a freshman and thus it's starting to hit our radar what college costs these days. And I I would tell those parents at least do the math. me. I couldn't believe recently when some parents whose kids are going through that right now were touting what these schools that I thought I knew what they cost really cost and um do the math as compared to the you know the kid you talked about who went to Gaylord. Yeah. And and think about this right you go talk to your your friend group right and it's like oh yeah we have a guy that comes out to work on the HVAC thing because I don't know how to do that.
It's like well how many parent like whether it's posting like marketing right posting on social media doing digital marketing like you start to think about where opportunity is and what the work people don't want to do or aren't skilled to do is a lot of it comes to working on your house working on yard things like like there is definitely in my ecosystem a deficit of people that know how to like fix a furnace or what like I would like a lot of people have no idea like I I am not anywhere near a blueco collar hammer swinger at all like my best friend is he flips houses and that's like he knows all the stuff and I call him but in my college friend group I'm the like blueco collar go-to guy that I can like fix something and I'm don't know anything like why are you calling me like so I just see this disaster the revolution that's being written about right now rightfully so I mean it's it is going to change the world is AI right and and I pull up my LinkedIn feed and I trip over a post about how AI is going to revolutionize recruiting and and arguably from our perspective maybe not in a good way it's going to take away that human relationship element I I'm sure it has and will have something to say about the services you're describing, but I have a hard time understanding how they're going to come out and braze and and solder and change filters and rewire things using AI in a data center in Mississippi, you know.
Yeah, someone's still got to swing the hammer. Boom. Someone's that that might be the title of the episode. Someone's got to swing the hammer. Uh man, this has been awesome. It's great to uh to hear a little bit more about like I love seeing like I've seen this brand.
I've seen NCW and it's fun to learn about the people behind it and the story and the times that you have to, you know, I think that you had a phrase earlier of like put put it all on the felt or something down to the felt. Down to the felt, right? So veracular, right? Yeah. You run out of chips. Yeah.
Right. Uh I will say for a blue collar background, you might be the most eloquent speaker that that I know that has a blue collar background. So kudos to you. Kudos to mom. Kudo. There it is.
Exc. That's that's a perfect line, too. Um we're coming down to the end of the show. So, I have a couple fun segments and questions and stuff to do here. The first one we have is our younger years segment. Younger years.
Okay. So, this is brought to you by our friends at or Fellowship. They're a great organization here in Indiana helping develop young business leaders across the state. J, you're super familiar with them. But what advice would you give to your 22-year-old self? I would tell my former self, don't worry too much about the future as long as you just work really hard.
I think we get caught up in understanding this linear path. And and I don't mean to be old man who shouts at clouds, but I think there is a generational thing where they maybe want it even more reminder. We employ a lot of those folks. They want to know if I do this, what what's next? Then what's next after that? You know, keep your nose clean and work really hard and everything will take care of itself.
That's great advice. As you think through, what's the craziest job or role that NCW is staffed for or like coolest project maybe? We did the vast majority of the solar uh installation at the Indianapolis airport. So that's cool to drive by every time I fly out. You know, there there's all sorts of stuff though that go into building these mega projects. Um you have you have random examples you could give like, you know, fire marshall says only so many people can be in this building even as you're building it.
So we have big job sites sometimes where you have to have someone standing there at the door with a clicker and making sure that you don't have too many people inside. Like I never would have thought of that. You know, fire watchers on ships, you know, you're building a ship, you really don't want to have a fire. Fire watchers. Yeah. That when when you're welding in tight quarters on on a ship in like the marine context, there's fire watchers associated with that.
But those are some like kind of simple uh examples that surprised me. Simple in terms of of, you know, the the task they're doing, but very important. On down to like the tooling associated with microprocessor foundaries will blow your hair back. Uh and you know tooling um like the the equipment that actually manufactures a microprocessor. It can be as small as a microwave and the biggest piece of tooling can come in on like 3747s and hooking those machines up so that they can take all those chemicals and produce a microprocessor that goes in your cell phone. Hooking that up with pipe fitters and electricians and and milrightes and riggers.
Uh it's fascinating. You know, I'm always learning uh because I'm like you. You said well spoken for blueco collar background. I could not build a bird bird house. I mean, I was really bad at being a general laborer on those job sites. It was it was not all my choice that I went went down another path for a while.
Is there a skilled laborer or tradesman that from your recruiting side days that made a huge impact in your life or like one that just sticks with you? Like man, we had employee numbers. Um, if you lined up, everybody works at NCW today. I, you know, Steve would be one, I'd be two. Herb Anderson, uh, was a field employee that I hired who now runs our what we call our field support. He's now in the office running our field support, which is QAQC safety and retention, you know, supporting that field workforce, making sure they they feel like outside of that recruiter relationship, they have someone whose boots on the ground, shoulder-to-shoulder with them.
So, they they're constantly running around to all of our different job sites. Herb runs a fairly large team there now. But when he started, you know, and just like me, I I started out running the full desk. Herb started out as a general laborer that I hired, I think I think is something like December 12th, December 10th, you know, was was the the day we met and and I love that he's still here doing great things. That's so from someone that you recruited, staffed, then brought him in house and now part of the team, a big team. Yeah.
It's the perfect perspective for running that division, right? He knows what those folks are going through and what they really need from us. Okay, we're going to do So, you went to school in Chicago. Spent some time. Were you in Morgan Stanley up in Chicago? Yes.
Okay. So, spend some time up there. Chicago verse Indianapolis. Pros, cons. What do you think? Like, what did you like about Chicago that maybe Indie is missing?
Pizza. What was What was your go-to spot up there? Uh, you know, I'm going to go I'm going to go off-rid. I liked uh Pizza Capri. Uh, Peekquads is good. Peekquad.
Is that the deep dish one? Yeah, pizza capri is deep dish. Um, I mean I I cut my teeth on Gordonos like everyone who first has it. I will say this is not this is not a Chicago podcast, but we will give them some credit for the pizza. It's it's interesting. Grudgingly give them credit because because uh it's crowded, parking's tough, it's cold.
Uh you know, it's a lot of fun to breeze in, breeze out. If if there was a piece of Chicago that we could adopt in Indianapolis, what do you think? What piece of that could we take? I mean, I hope to be a part of building a vibrant business community with maybe a few more layers to the ecosystem. There's some jobs that you particularly get into like uh venture stuff that I think we're just starting to see in Indianapolis that exist to scale in Chicago. So, uh you know, if we can all keep doing what we're doing, we can build up a a more dense uh business community here in Indianapolis.
I just thought of a good one that I would also do. If uh if there was a trait that Indianapolis could send to Chicago, what would you what would we send them? Kindness. I knew that when it was. Yeah. Um Amen.
Once you get into Chicago, it's not bad to visit, but it's the book ends. You go in there, traffic sucks, parking's horrible. Like, it's a terrible experience getting there. I still got buddies there. I'm going to go back. I've got family that lives there.
What are you doing? I'm just saying. And then on the back end, when you leave, traffic sucks. It's like you come in on a Friday. I'm angry when I get there and I'm angry when I leave. But in the middle, there's some decent stuff to do.
I've got a family on both sides that lives there. I love them dearly. I have fun when I go. I lived there for the four years I was in college and that should say enough. There we go. All right, we'll take that.
You've had an incredible I mean, again, NCW's 25 years, uh, 15 years of you kind of in that leadership ownership role. Has there been uh one piece of advice that you've gotten from Steve that's made just a huge impact in your professional career as well as your personal career? Steve again has always been focused on taking care of the field force and I you know we're at a scale now and we've been at a scale for a while where you're never going to bat a thousand there. So, I I'm not going to come uh even close to claiming that, but Steve gave the advice of of making sure we're doing right by the field force day one and still to this day. similar to Tim Ferrris. I think uh Steve uh does a good job of particularly at this point.
I think maybe learned from this from the unbridled growth days as well, but does a good job of of uh balancing entrepreneurial instincts, which he has great entrepreneurial instincts against, you know, making sure we're we're not growing too fast. Learned learned about being myself uh from Steve. you know, I think trying to project early on that I was capable when I was a lot younger and, you know, just just being myself in a meeting, which Steve does famously. Um, and and effectively. Um, that's something I've learned. I I've learned again a lot of the failures comment that could be a whole podcast what I've learned from Steve.
Uh, what's your favorite way to celebrate a successful candidate placement or a new partner joining the NCW ecosystem? I'm feeling lucky is a is a book about an early employee at Google. We learned about their TGIF meetings on Fridays and and how they solved for their hyperrowth and being ships passing in the night and making sure they're celebrating the little wins as well as the big wins. So, um, Friday all staff, which we call TGIF, not very creative with that one. Uh, at 11:00 a. m.
uh is a great way to celebrate whatever win we had. Celebrate together. It's it's about being a team. Okay. Wait, do you know the story behind I'm feeling lucky on Google? Yeah, I've read that.
What what is Can you give us like a I because I know I've seen the thing but I've never actually clicked the button. I've actually Oh, it's awesome. Yeah, please. I' I've read it twice. Doug uh Edwards, I think is his last name. It's Doug.
Uh he was It's either confessions I'm feeling lucky, Confessions of Google number 40, employee number 49 or 59, I forget. He was early in marketing and he's just a great storyteller and he tells about um those early days. It's it's a fantastic book. It's a memoir. you know, he he left post IPO, so he didn't get there for the Google Glass days or the AI revolution, all that stuff, but um it was he was there for when they were crossing swords with um Ask Jeves and all the other search engines. Chaa Scotta uh that was here.
Yeah. Um I mean, what's his I can't think of his last name. Scott Miller. No, Scott. Uh I can't think of his name, but yeah. like talk about his that would be a whole story to do up and down and up and down and yeah it's it's a cool book.
So anyways, where do we celebrate wins as a team together on Friday? Amen. All right, these are the same three questions that I ask everyone who sits in the chair. It's all about the state of Indiana. First thing, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana? There's a lot of entrepreneurial horsepower and it's a very pro business environment in terms of all the great things that the MDC and the IEDC are willing to do uh for businesses here.
Great answer. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? I think if you haven't been to downtown Fisers and all the things that are happening right there on 116th Street or the Yard or the new Fischers Event Center, I'm not sure if that qualifies hidden, but maybe for some that there's, you know, live on the other side of town. I I live very near there and feel very fortunate. Yes, sometimes it's congested, but there's just so much going on in downtown Fisers. The Yeah, they've done a lot of good stuff up there.
May Mayor Fness is going to be pumped up that you said that. Um, and then in South Broadripple, there is a place called the Taco and Burrito place. Um, the aforementioned Maddie Brinkley will uh say that she loves Tacos more. And I think Pacos was recently on this podcast. So, Senny has a hell of a story. Pacos, they put a great product out there.
I'm a Taco and Burrito place man. And that is actually the name of the restaurant. It is literally called Taco and Burrito Place. Is it by Pawn Shop? Is it that one? It is.
Or is that one Indie Taco? It is just south of Fall Creek on Keystone on the west side of the street. It's a very, you know, unassuming, nondescript strip. It's a white strip. I think it's red letters. Good time.
That's down past King Rib then. It's It's right there. Yes. Right there across from the um you know what what uh what's it the the Jamaican place? It's across from Jamaican Breeze. That was It's across from that.
Um Yeah. Taco and burrito place is a hidden. What's the order? I'm gonna I'm gonna go a mix usually of carnitas and uh oh my gosh, what do they call their their spicy sausage? That's chorizo. Yeah, carnitas and chorizo.
I like I get it. Like gringo style with like like lettuce and tomatoes, you know? I I don't do true authentic street taco. Uh but yeah, the tacos speak for themselves. Taco and burrito place. Taco and burrito place.
Check it out. I love it. That's that's such a great answer. Final question for you. you get to share the love with someone and and a lot of these kind of lead to future guests that we have on the show, but who's a hooer that we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things.
Michael Solari um as we have grown has helped us quite a bit. Was a referral from a a colleague um or from from someone I grew up with who's who's doing good things in the business community, but he's a u you know, consultant, lobbyist, uh adviser, and uh yeah, you should check him out. Michael Solari. Yes. What? and he's a I think a lobbyist is what you call him, but I think he he does things beyond that more than making introductions that we have benefited from as we've specifically wanted to grow our footprint in South Broadripple.
Uh he's been a good adviser on on you know door A door B stuff. Uh knows knows a lot of uh how the my horrible cliche but how the sausage is made politically and here in town. I've never met a lobbyist or had a conversation with them. I think that would be fun. I don't know. I have so many questions of how that works.
You you should you should I love Michael. Hey, thank you for coming on today. It was awesome to learn about I mean the 25 almost 25 year journey that NCW has had the last 15 all the crazy growth and the I mean the failures and the stories and how you've grown and adapted and innovated and just learning your story. Uh it's always great to learn and see some of the faces and the stories of leadership behind these brands that we all know that are in our community. So, thank you for all the work that you do. It's also great that you guys are partnered with or fellowship.
I love that. I think that um talking to partner companies and seeing the value that people get and and the importance of talent attraction in Indiana and keeping smart people in Indiana to build their careers is super important. So, it's awesome to see businesses pouring into that and I appreciate you coming on and uh thanks for having us. Thanks for what you do. For people that want to learn more about NCW or ways to support y'all, how can we find you? Teamncw.
com. There we go. Are you looking for everything? Yeah. I mean, sales and recruiting talent all the time, operational talent all the time. Uh talent in the industries we serve that we could market to our customers all the time.
If you're swinging hammers or picking up a phone, we want to talk to you. Send this to your hammer swinging friends. Get them plugged in with NCW. I love it, man. Well, hey, appreciate you and we'll talk soon. Thanks so much.
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