How Alex Collignon Went from the Mailroom to Representing Country Artists with WME in Nashville

Was there a certain city that the crowd just felt more into it and they'd be like, dude, something's in the water in Indiana. They love us here.

You gotta be a friend, not a fan. Sign this, do this, take this picture. And like in some of these like spaces, they just want to be people.

I always face the crowd that sparkle in someone's eye and people smiling or hugging each other or, that's so cool that I have a little piece of bringing that to a community.

Where was the moment? You're probably drinking a beer somewhere and it's like all like, whoa.

From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between. This is Get IN, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. getindiana.com is your one stop shop for everything Indiana.

From festival and event guides, to blog posts covering hidden gems, local businesses, small towns, and more. Check it out and learn something new about the Hoosier State at getindiana.com. And don't forget to subscribe to our weekly newsletter right there at the top. My guest today is Alex Collignon. He is a talent agent at WME based in Nashville, Tennessee, where he represents country artists, some of which you have definitely heard of.

Maybe you've heard of the Red Clay Strays, Gavin Adcock and Connor Smith. He joined WME back in 2014 in the mailroom, and in 2019 he was promoted to an agent in the country music division. I'm really excited to talk about his journey from Indianapolis down to Bloomington, into the mailroom down in Nashville, Tennessee, and now representing some of the biggest names in country music.

I'm really excited. Anyone who knows Avid listeners know I'm a country music guy, so this is gonna be fun. Alex, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Nate.

Dude, I love it. Drove straight up from Nashville.

Straight up.

Well, I'll give you the, the scoop people we're recording. Uh, he's home for Thanksgiving, so depending on when this comes out, we're here for Thanksgiving.

Mm-hmm. And we're gonna talk. I mean, it's an exciting time in the world of country music

very,

because you've been a country music fan your entire life.

Most of my life, I would say. I mean, I've been in Nashville for 11 years. I've been a country fan for about 12, so, you know,

there you, there you go. Okay. So not growing up a country music fan, no.

Was your goal always to be around entertainment or where did the decision to get into music start?

Yeah, so I mean, I grew up in like a music household. My dad is just a huge music fan, big Beatles lover. Um, I mean, he loves all kind of music, but like, grew up listening to Beatles, John Mellencamp, um, and he played guitar, so always just kind of had music around me.

And then I think when I was like five or six, he got me a drum set and, uh, that came from, I, I would like get pots and pans out and want to be like Ringo, you know, and just bang on the drums a little bit. So, uh, he really leaned into that for me and like kind of nurtured that, uh, interest that I had. And then, um, played in bands growing up and I, at somewhere along the line I was like, I'm not good enough to be in a band.

I was kind of like. The worst player in every band. But I got by and um, so I, I kinda was like, ah, I think I wanna do the business side of things. So I've always known that I've wanted to work with music in some aspect. Yeah. But didn't really know what until I, you know, got older.

Well, and I think that's an interesting piece.

Um, I would not say, uh, that Indianapolis specifically has a, like, headline artist that's from here. You know,

not Indianapolis.

No. But not Indianapolis. Obviously you have Mellencamp, you have, you know, the, the Jacksons. Mm-hmm. You have some really big artists from Indiana. You have Stephen Wilson Jr. That's blowing up from down in Seymour.

Oh yeah. Love Steven

Wilson Jr. Uh, but like Indianapolis Pro, like we don't have a Jack Harlow

No.

Like Indianapolis doesn't have like a rapper or a country music star or anything like that. And so the jobs that, that are here in, in India, like aren't the same. So growing up, did you know like what it took to be an agent and what you'd have to do?

No, not really. I mean, growing up. When I was in bands and stuff, I was just always kind of the one, like I was lugging all the equipment. I was talking to the venues, figuring out, you know, what time of soundcheck, these

are real bands. Oh yeah. This isn't like, this isn't like people just playing in the garage like you were playing shows.

Yeah. So I was in a band called EK when I was in high school, um, singer songwriters, name's Oliver Hopkins. Uh, really talented musician. Him and I kind of, we had like a music room growing up that my dad just had all his stuff in, you know, and, um, we would just come over and just kind of like, he was learning guitar, I was learning drums and we'd play with each other.

Like we played Indy CD & Vinyl. We did like their outside street festival for, uh, Record Store Day. Dude,

that's pretty cool.

Oh yeah, we won some Battle of the Bands back in the day. Had a write up in NUVO, which was fun. And then we headlined the Cathedral Auditorium my senior year. We sold it out. It was like.

Five, 600 tickets or something like

that.

Oh. So how did that feel?

It was pretty cool. I mean, I definitely felt like big man on campus walking around with a sold out show at the auditorium.

Yeah. We got a sold out show. Yeah. After party was lit. Let's go. Oh yeah. Come on now. Alright, so you end up going down to IU Bloomington.

Mm-hmm. And somewhere in there, you, you know, from high school to college, you make the decision of like, you know, I'm not gonna be a rock star.

Yeah.

But I still wanna work in the industry.

So that was from, I, I was in a funk cover band in at IU and we played Bluebird every Wednesday. Um, we had to get a little crowd that like.

We, you know, kind of developed our audience and stuff. And we had like two players. It was me, the bassist and the lead singer were just kind of like, that was our hobby, you know, to do it. And then we brought in Jacobs School of Music players for like keys and lead guitars, saxophones, stuff like that, who were just like insanely talented.

So you'd see them who are, you know, classically trained studying music, and you're like, oh my God, I'm never gonna be that good.

Yeah.

So again, I was kind of doing all of the business side of it anyway.

And this is like 20 11, 20 12, 20 13. Yep. Like that timeframe. Mm-hmm. So it's like you couldn't just like post something out there on TikTok and go viral at this point.

Oh no. You had to like, you

had to work

post it. Oh, yeah.

Well, here's the interesting piece though. How much of success in the industry comes from just pure natural talent versus like doing the business side and knowing how to get booked, how to get shows, how to work an audience, how to do all those things.

Sure. I'd say, I mean, it's kind of like, I'd say. 35% hard work, 35%, you know, knowledge, grit, whatever. And then the rest of it is pretty much luck. It's just right place, right time. Yeah. But you can set yourself up for that luck, you

know? Yeah. Well, 'cause how many people do you know that just like there are people grow up in church choirs and stuff that are just way more talented than, you know, current country stars, rock stars, anyone, but they like don't take the steps to become a star.

They don't take the steps to become in the industry.

I've learned that talent doesn't equal success. I've seen a lot of people in the industry who you, you see 'em at a showcase or whatever else, and they're immensely talented. But if they don't have that worth eth work ethic, it doesn't ever. Come to fruition for him.

Yeah.

What does work look like for an artist? I think a lot of people think it's just like you drink beer and play songs about drinking beer and you're hanging out like it's pretty

fun. Easy, right? You're in a

pretty good life.

I mean, it's, it's, it's always changing. Um, I think in the last few years it's definitely changed because of artist discovery and we're in a really cool time where the, the gatekeepers are kind of gone because, you know, before it was like you needed to have a record deal in order to get on the radio, in order to have discovery back in the day.

Now you can put up your phone in your room, sing, you know, to your phone, post it on TikTok and it gets to millions and millions of people.

But here's the interesting piece, though. Not if you do it just one time.

No. You have to con, continue to feed the algorithm. Yeah. To keep posting videos. Also fine tuning your, you know, your videos and stuff.

If you can see that something's working. You lean into that?

Oh my, I mean, what the biggest example is probably Cooper Alan

Mm-hmm.

You know, like he great. He is just like, and he's selling out like decent sized little arenas. Oh

yeah.

Like we were out in Terre Haute, he's playing The Mill in front of thousands of people.

Yep. And it all came from TikTok.

And he's one that has like, kind of cheated the system a little bit. He doesn't have a major record label, he does it all of himself. I mean, he's now represent, I think, well we represent him at WME, but also, uh, his manager does Luke Combs and Nico Moon, uh, Flatland Cavalry, all these other people.

So he's, he's garnered that attention. But, you know, making content is not you, you know, making content is exhausting sometimes.

Yeah. When he does the whole, like, mashup, like I think the one that really helped him blow up was like the Colt 45 country mashup. And he was just like rapping and singing with his buddy and it was so fun.

But that's, that's showcasing his talent. But you also see how often he. posts and how often he does those things and he's smart with it. He, he knows his audience. He saw what worked and then leaned into that. And once he leaned into, you know, it started with the Colt 45 mashup, but then he starts sprinkling in his own songs and then people go, okay, he's actually a really talented musician.

Yeah, I want to hear some,

I went to his show out in Terre Haute. He is just an entertainer too. Yeah. Like he's just so entertaining, fun. Like, he's like chugging beers and hanging out and just like being one of the fellas.

It is great. I mean, there, there's, there's the hard work portion of it, but then at the end of the day, it all culminates to the show.

Yeah. And that's when they're having fun.

Well, and, and you know, the, there's a hard work on the talent side and there's hard work on the, the backside. Mm-hmm. Right. Of like getting there and being an, getting to a point where you are an agent. So your journey in the music side of things, you start working with Live Nation while you're in college.

Yeah. So, you know, when I was in college, I, I majored in, it was called Arts Management. It's basically a business degree with an arts focus. So, um, I chose music and they, they really encourage you in the summer to. You know, go get an internship at your, you know, local venue or whatever else it is. So I just was looking online.

I got a non-paid internship at Live Nation.

Oh gosh. Today could, they'll never know today.

No, they will never know.

Well, you went and worked at Live Nation for free

or free. I got college credit for it, so if you wanna really boil it down. I was paying for college. I was paying to work at Ship. Yes, you definitely were.

Yeah.

Uh, but yeah, I started there as a marketing intern. Just, I didn't know what to do. I just wanted to get my foot in the door anywhere. Yeah.

So what did that job look like?

Basically facilitating different marketing requests that, you know, companies pay Live Nation for venue placement. So, you know, if you, uh, Klipsch Music Center or Ruoff Music Center, they are paying the venue to have their name, title on, on the building.

Mm-hmm. Um, so we would service things where, like hanging up signage to make sure, you know. Taco Bell signs were up and then it even got really fun. Where have you ever been to a Ruoff show and there's a, there was a Taco Bell mascot. Oh, at Front Concourse. Well, I was probably that Taco Bell mascot at one point.

My job was to find people for it, and if I couldn't,

then you had to do it.

Then it was me.

So you were paying. To get into the Taco Bell mascot costume,

more or less.

Yeah. Basically, you know, if you think about the roundabout college credits you're paying, like, they're like, yeah, this is, this is what's gonna help you get into the industry.

Throw on this kid and get out there and dance.

But I was ready to do it, man. 'cause I just, I've always had that, my sight set on working in the music business. So yeah, it was, to me it was kinda like whatever I gotta do to get my foot in the door and to get a good reputation, you know?

And, and even if it doesn't make sense right now, like right now, it might not make sense of like, how are you gonna manage talent when you're inside the Taco Bell?

mascot I

was probably having that little bit of an existential crisis, like, what am I doing? I'm in a Taco Bell costume. I will say the fun part of it was like you'd see your friends and people you knew and no one really knew you were in the Taco Bell outfit. So yeah, you could, you could go up and mess with them,

bro.

Why does this, why does this taco keep messing with me? Okay, so you do that for a summer?

Mm-hmm.

What do you have to go back then to college again?

So I went back to college. Um, you know, I, I did like different organizations and tried to help out, out, you know, I was playing music, so yeah, I was getting to know venue owners and things like that.

Um, and then, yeah, next summer popped up and I got to, I got to know a lot of the, uh. Venue people at Ruoff, uh, when I was working there under sponsorships. So I kind of hit 'em up the next summer and said, Hey, do you have anything that I could do? You know, I'm kind of over the Taco Bell thing, so can I do anything else?

And so I actually became a runner, which for those that don't know, basically the venue hires a runner for an artist that anything they need like need an extra case of water, I need bus stock or whatever else it is, I would be that person to go out and get it and bring it back. So

for the artist,

yeah.

So like, gimme an example.

First day on the job as a runner, what happens,

uh, first day on the job, you go and usually meet with the tour manager when the, when the tour gets there. Um,

so who, who came to town for you?

Uh, it was T.I. and Lil Wayne was the first one I ever did, which I like. I grew up listening to hip hop. Yeah. So it was like, it was massive.

I didn't, at first, I didn't get to meet anybody. Uh, you just, you're talking to the tour manager and you're like,

what's the tour manager tell you to go get for T.I. and Lil Wayne?

Uh, it was a lot of sour candy for, for Lil Wayne. Um, and then, oh yeah, it was, and then I think at the, so at the end of the night, uh, they were like, we want barbecue.

Is there any good barbecue spot? And, um, I can't even remember the name of the place, but it's over. It's over by Ruoff But, um, they just gave me this huge order and then I, they were like, Alright go take it into T.I.. And I'm like, I get to take the food into the green room. And so I walked in and he, you know, gave me a big hug for it.

And I was like, you give an artist some food after a show and they're gonna love you, so

let's go.

That, that was a pretty cool

one. That the welcome to the industry.

The, the

why. Yeah. Okay. Wait, wait. I gotta know. You walk outta there, you get off work that night. are You like calling the boys like Yoooo

Oh, absolutely.

I've

made it.

Yeah. I was bumping T.I. the whole way home and calling people.

So you know what, you can have whatever you like. You had the barbecue spread there. Let's go.

Exactly.

Okay. So you do that for a summer?

Yeah.

Okay. Then, so this would, is this before your senior year?

So I was a sophomore going into junior year was Live Nation.

Mm-hmm. And then Junior going into senior year. Okay. I was doing the running

stuff.

So at that point you had, you had done that for a summer. Mm-hmm. You go back to school, what's your plan? You know, Hey, like, hey, I'm, I'm getting some exposure, I'm making some connections.

Yeah.

What's the plan become to, to get into the industry?

Still had no idea. It was like anything I could do to get like a real job. I felt like, you know, the marketing internship was great and running was awesome, but it was like, okay, what now I need to hone in my focus of what I wanna do. And I actually remember I called Andrew Newport, who's the GM at ru and I asked him, I said, you know, I, I.

I gotta start applying for jobs. You know, my friends were all in Kelley School and they're like, you know, first semester they have jobs locked in.

But

yeah, I'll be an investment banker on Wall Street.

Yeah, I already signed my contract and now the rest of the year they actually

wired me $10,000 and like shots are on me tonight.

Oh, coyote Logistics. They all had, they had jobs at Coyote Logistics, I remember. That's what like everybody did. But um, so I, you know, they all had their jobs. I was trying to hustle, like, you know, I was literally cold call, cold calling people. I'd call labels out in LA and New York and, Hey, my name's Alex.

I'm trying to get into the industry. Where can I send my resume? And then I'd keep following up, keep following up. And so I didn't really know where I wanted to go. I would just find things on like Indeed and, you know, send my resume. And so I, I was talking to Andrew Newport, said, Hey man, I don't, I don't know what to do.

I think I want to go to a label like that seems like, you know, I wanna work with artists and um, help, you know, get their music out there. And he was like, dude, lemme tell you something. This is kind of like when streaming was starting to happen a little more. It was just a different time period. And, um, he was like, man, labels are not, not it anymore.

I'll tell you what you wanna do. You want to go be an agent? Because he watched all these different agents come in. He goes, you get to work with the talent, but by the time the show plays your job's already done, you get to come and enjoy it and drink beer with them or do whatever you want. That's what you want to do.

Yeah.

Um,

isn't that crazy how one conversation can shape your life?

It is. And you know, I've had a lot of those throughout my career that at the time don't seem that significant. And then once you kind of take a step back and, and line 'em all up, you're like, okay. Something was leading me here because in that same internship that I had at Live Nation, um, the other intern, uh, her name was Hailey Teskey, she was actually the reason that I got my job at WME.

She moved down to Nashville before me. She, was she from

here?

Uh, yes. She was from Carmel, Indiana. Yeah. And went to Purdue.

So you had that conversation?

Mm-hmm.

With Steven

Andrew.

And he says, you wanna be an agent. And so that's like, okay, cool. Yeah, I wanna be an agent.

And then somewhere along the line I kind of like, I think I reconnected with Hailey.

Just, you know, you're looking for jobs, you're kind of like,

yeah.

Anyone that you know that is somewhat like-minded, you're kinda like, what are you doing now? And she's like, I'm working at this agency called WME, I'm down in Nashville, Tennessee. And I'm like, I didn't know there was a big like, music industry in Nashville.

I kind of thought it was LA or New York. Um, she's like, yeah, it's awesome. You know, we're having a lot of fun down here. Um, you should come down and visit and like, I'll see if I can pass your resume along to this agency. So I'm kind of like. Conversation with Andrew, you wanna be an agent and then call up an old friend.

She's working at an agency. I'm like, okay, this, this could work.

So you get in the car and drive down to Nashville,

got in the car and drove down to Nashville. And funny enough, it was CMA Fest, which is like the biggest country music festival of all time. No way. Yeah. And so me and my girlfriend at the time drove down and, uh, we're like, what is this?

Like, there's the, the whole city is shut down.

Nashville had way less, uh, cranes in 2014.

Uh, yeah. Not many cranes. It is, it is probably a few years later. Yeah. That there was

like 20 or 30, like they start to get into this huge boom. Mm-hmm. That comes probably five years after that. But 2014, it was like just at the beginning of this movement of music city and every bachelorette party that's ever happened is happening in Nashville.

You, you know? Yes. So you get down there for CMA fest. Mm-hmm.

By chance,

I mean to just, and then you have an in with an agent. Or like someone who works at an agency.

Yeah. So yeah, they passed my resume along. I ended up getting a couple.

Did you get to like, go out with them and hang out and stuff? Oh man. Or like what was your experience like when you show up for CMA Fest?

I mean, they were like entry level at the time, so I didn't have like, any access to anything. Oh no. All the shows are free. I mean, we just like walked around downtown and what I was, I'd never been to Nashville before, so I was just kind of like in awe with everything, all the music and talent that's just readily available

first night there.

Where was the moment that you, I mean, you're probably drinking a beer somewhere and it's like all like, whoa, like it starts to feel like a place you're supposed to be. Yeah. Do you remember the moment?

I do remember the moment I was down in on Broadway, of course. As, as one does. And, uh,

then do you really remember the moment?

I do. It's a little fuzzy, but no, I, uh, I just remember like kind of taking a second to walk around and like. And look around and you can hear music coming out of every building. You know, you hear all the drummers are like right in the window and you can see people. Um, and that's when I was kinda, you don't get that in Indianapolis, really?

I mean, like, there's great live music venues, but not 15 of them all on the same block. So I kind of was like, oh, this is pretty cool. I think this is somewhere that I could probably be. Um, and until I got that call, uh, for the job, you know, I didn't, I was like, I'll move wherever I need to. But, um, that was the first time.

So you ended

up giving them your resume? Mm-hmm. And then how long after that did they give you a buzz?

I got a call like three or four months later, so

three or four months

later. Oh yeah. So basically they put your, they, they have a stack of resumes all the time. And, uh, everybody starts in the mailroom at the very bottom.

You, you're literally handing people mail, you're doing copies. All that's filing contracts. And so, um,

every single person,

every single person, so they just, they have a stack of resumes and I, I think they kind of move people around. You know, if you did well in your interview, they'll probably put you at the top, but you don't get the job until someone from the mailroom gets promoted or leaves.

So it's not a, oh, you, you did really well. I'm gonna hire you. It's like, you did really well. We'll call you when something opens up. So,

dang.

It took a couple months.

And like, what if they would've called you earlier and you're still in school?

I don't know. I guess you just figure it out.

So you got your call like towards the end of the school year?

I got my call the day I graduated, like the day I had my cap and gown walking, I had a job. So that was hell. Yeah. That was a big accomplishment. Were, my parents were stoked

and were like, and you're like, yeah, I'm moving to Nashville.

Yeah. I,

how, how much did someone in the mailroom make? Like when you were starting, like roughly, you don't have to give like Exactly.

No, I'll give you exactly what it is. 'cause I know it's $12 an hour. Yeah.

This is 2015. Mm-hmm. Right when you graduated it was 2015.

Yeah.

There. Okay. You graduate 2015, you moved to Nashville with a $12 an hour job.

Packed up my car. My best friend Andy was like delivering pizzas at the time. He's like, I'll move to Nashville.

I don't care. I can do that down here. No way. You and Andy. Yeah. We, we went in the, got in the car and, uh, drove down to Nashville and I made, had 12 bucks an hour.

He's, he's like, you're getting ready for your first date suit?

No, no, no. No suit. No suit. I mean, I was wearing like slacks and like tucked in like collar shirt.

Okay.

So you're getting ready. And he's like, you know, hitting up by Papa John's and Domino's, like trying to, like, to transfer his career in the pizza industry down there.

He's like, that's not Nashville. Sounds way more fun to deliver pizzas down there.

What's the grind of the mailroom look like?

I would have to go shopping for the office.

So like, you, you know, you have. Coffee, bagels, whatever else. So like, I was just in charge of like stocking the fridge every morning, going, going to Kroger and you know, shopping, making sure everything was ready for all the agents. And then, um, you're just, you literally, there's a mailroom there and people send you things to fax, things to scan, copy.

You're getting mail. How many

other people in the mailroom are there?

There was two at the time.

So there's you and one other person. Mm-hmm. So there's like two grunts.

You literally have this like mail cart that you push around and you don't know anybody. So it's, and it like rattled. It was really loud.

You could hear 'em all coming. So you just literally went around the office and we had like, um, you know, out outbox out outward box in like inbox or whatever. Yeah. So you'd go pick up all their, their stuff that they needed to put somewhere and go, uh,

were people friendly?

Uh, it depends who they were. Some people, you know, agents kind of get this like bad rap of like,

well, you know why it's 'cause of, it's Ari Ari Gold.

Exactly. Yeah, man. Yeah,

there's some of those. I don't, I mean, people are, I think, I think you make up the intimidation in your head a little bit 'cause you're like, you know, the new kid on the block. Yeah. But, um,

how long did it take for you to like, I don't know, befriend some people and get some allies?

Uh, pretty quick.

I mean, I, that's kind of my personality. I'll just go talk to whoever and

Yeah.

Um, be pretty friendly. But,

and, and I'm sure they probably want to see if you mean it for real. Yeah. Like if you're willing to do this.

So a lot of people use it as like a stepping stone, I feel like sometimes, because, uh, they don't really know what they wanna do.

So it's like, ah, let's get this job. And then depending on what my interest falls into, then, you know, I'll jump to management or jump to a label or a promoter or something like that. So, yeah.

What, and what, where was your next progression? Like where did you have to get?

Yeah, so you become, you start in the mailroom, then you become a floater.

Which is essentially you're, you're getting trained as an assistant to review contracts, load offers, um, and then, you know, if someone's out sick one day, you kind of cover for that person's desk. And then from there you become an assistant for an agent. Um, and then hopefully there you become an agent after that, so.

Wow. Okay. So how long did you have to stay in the mailroom?

I was in the mailroom for like six months.

Okay. So that's not, I mean, it sucks while you're in it, but it's not that, and he's like, we, we found out that Alex was a wrestler. So like, you know about a little bit of pain and suffering at the one.

Oh yeah. You're in the, the 1, 1 0 6, 1 13, 1 0 3. Is

it 1 0 3 and then 1 25.

Oh yeah. You knew it. The thing or two, about a little bit of suffering there. Six. Yeah, I had to cut

some weight.

Yeah. So six months isn't that bad.

No.

So you do six months. What was two questions there? Mm-hmm. One, what was the biggest lesson you learned from working in the WME mailroom?

It's one of those things that like, it's perseverance again. 'cause, you know, you see everybody else kind of doing what you wanna do and, uh. I think you could get down on yourself a little bit and be like, man, I'm, I'm not being, I'm not challenging myself. I'm just, you know, copy, making copies and handing out paperwork.

But, um, I just used that as an example to be curious and learn about everything. I would sit there and while I was making the copies of the deals, I was looking through the deal because I was trying to learn what they were doing. So if they weren't gonna like, teach me the ways just yet, I was trying to get myself ready.

So when I was getting trained, I hit the ground running.

How did you balance trying to set yourself apart and like, you know, stand out and work to get promoted while also not being like, know it all? Like, you know, stir the pot, be like the, you know, I'm sure you've met some of those across your time.

Sure.

I think being humble is like a big important aspect of mine, of like. Your work is gonna, is gonna speak for itself at the end of the day. So, I mean, you can tell every, you can talk the talk all you want, but unless you can walk the walk, it's,

it's,

yeah. It's not gonna work out for you.

And I think so much, especially, we live in such a, a world of instant gratification mm-hmm.

Where it's like, you know, oh, I, I want something. I can get it tomorrow or today, you know, Amazon has today delivery, now it's crazy. And, you know, being able to keep your eye on the prize of like, I'm working towards something bigger. It's, it's coming along the way. But today that requires making copies.

Like today that requires, like, being someone's bagel retriever pretty much, you know, like, uh, but there's a bigger thing that's coming as long as you stay patient and keep working hard.

Yeah. I think that's something that you always gotta kind of remember is like, what is your long-term goal? And making sure your sites are focused on that.

And then, you know, making sure that every day you're, you're going to the office, yeah, you're doing this minutiae, but then as long as you kind of have your eye on the ball, then uh, you'll get to where you wanna be.

For those that don't understand how, you know, the agency world works. Mm-hmm. Take us through, like, you, your goal is to go from mailroom to floater to assistant to agent.

Yeah. So essentially we're responsible for booking, uh, job opportunities for artists. So, you know, we represent a multitude of different types of artists, whether that's a director or an actor or musician. Uh, Nashville, we focus on country music and now we're doing all types of music. But at the time when I started, it was just country.

Um, so yeah, we're booking concerts essentially. So you sign artists and then you wanna fill up their calendar. When you

say sign artist? Mm-hmm. So like, let's say if I was an artist, you know, I play music. Yeah. Starting to get a following. People like me, like what I have. Um, I would come to you first or would I already have like a career kind of going like, what does it look like?

It depends. I think it happens in multitude of different ways. Sometimes you are having, you know, the attention brought on to you and then that, you know. Raises the flag for an agent to go, oh, I wonder what Nate's doing. You know, does he have an agent? Uh, is this a business I wanna be involved in? Or sometimes it's the artist reaching out and saying, Hey, I have a lot of demand right now.

I can't keep up with all the incoming calls I'm getting. I need an agent that I then Yeah. You know?

Okay. So, so how many artists can one agent represent?

Depends on the agent. Okay. Is, I mean, some people have a few acts, some people have 20 to 30 acts,

or like, what about like, the biggest like, I don't know, would like Morgan Wallen for instance, like if I was that big?

Mm-hmm. I feel like I would kind want, I wouldn't want to share that much, like of my agent's time.

Yeah. So, I mean, everybody's different. I think every artist is gonna have their, you know, degree of how much they want their agent to do other things. Um, I think it's just up to the person as long as you're getting the job done.

To me, I think most artists are, uh, okay with you working with other folks.

Okay. And. This is different than a manager.

Yes. We work in tandem with the manager.

Yeah. 'cause if, if anyone thinks through the entourage scenario Yeah. Like the entourage scenario. Like the friend was the manager. Yep. And Ari was the agent.

Mm-hmm. Ari also had other cust or clients and all that jazz. Yeah. Okay. So

managers have usually have less clients than an agent would.

Yes. And the manager is like more intertwined with their life and all that jazz

day to day.

Yeah.

They're, they're kind of talking to every facet of that artist's career.

Yeah. So they're the intermediary between the label, the agent, the business manager, every, the publicist, everybody. So,

so when you think of, okay, country music artist, like who is their go-to person? Like who needs to be like their number one, like the first thing you gotta get Right.

In terms of their team?

Yeah. In terms of the team

management for

sure. So manager, so they have a manager mm-hmm. Who kind of like, you know, operates day to day, all this stuff. And then like. When they start to get paid. So they would work with them and their manager to get an agent.

Mm-hmm.

The agent is then what's in charge of kinda like helping bring in the revenue

Yeah.

Facilitate offers. Yeah. So essentially my goal with my artist is to field all these different types of offers. Yeah. And then present them. Yeah. And kind of like consult. Can

we, can we talk about that a little bit? Sure. Okay. So Red Clay strays.

Mm-hmm.

They just win a vocal. No. What was the group? It was an award.

Vocal

group of the

year. Vocal Group of the Year from the cma. Like last week.

Last week.

Like, shout out. That has to be freaking sick.

Thank you. I didn't do anything. I just helped. So,

I mean, fair. But, uh, how long have you worked with them?

Oh man, we've been working with them for about three years, three or four years.

and respectfully, like they were not that big three years ago, you know?

Yeah.

I feel like, was it wondering why, was that the one that kind of got them into the limelight a little bit?

Yeah. When we signed them, uh, I think the first show we did with them, they did like a couple hundred tickets and

a couple hundred tickets.

Yeah. And then it's grown from there. Crazy. But that was one that, you know, going back to the relationship thing and like always kinda having your eye on the ball. Uh, I knew their manager years before, like he was trying to be in the mailroom at WME and you know, was kind of hanging out with a few of us and I knew him from a mutual friend and we kind of kept in in touch.

And then, you know, that they started taking agency meetings and he hit me up and he's like, Hey dude, you know, I'm managing this band.

Yeah.

Uh, we, we'd like to come meet with WME. And um, it's one of those situations where you're like, never burn a bridge. Always keep those relationships. Yeah. 'cause you never know what's gonna come back around.

Yeah. And we're, we're talking through, so, so they win. Vocal Group of the Year. Mm-hmm. Insane. So then I'm sure the phone starts ringing, right?

Oh yeah.

And then like, what are the different opportunities that are getting put in front of them that you kinda have to like, uh, work through?

Yeah, so like myself specifically, I, I do it with, uh, we kinda co-agent with, uh, this guy named Kanan Vitolo, who's also at WME.

Um, so we kind of work in tandem to just, you know, we're talking to promoters in different venues and essentially f facilit and festivals or whatever else. Yeah. And facilitating those offers of getting submitted.

So like booking live talent, like shows,

yes.

This is not necessarily on like record deals and things like that.

On the other side, this is all about where they're gonna play their music live in arenas.

Yeah. Live, live representation. So,

yeah.

Um, yeah, festivals, just hard ticket touring, anything like that, private engagements, anything. And then we have an agent.

Oh. So like if, if I was like, yo, I want the Red Clay Strays to play my birthday, I would send that email to you.

Correct. Yeah. Or whoever, and it would get funneled to me. Yeah.

You ever get any wild requests?

We do. Um, there's some times where it's like you don't really understand why that person thought that it was possible. You're like, you wanna play, you want so and so to play? You're, you know, birthday three years from now and when you turn 50 or something.

And it's like, I don't think they're gonna be interested in that. But

yeah.

Thanks for reaching out. Yeah. Of, yeah. We appreciate the

effort, you know? Yeah. Don't burn a bridge.

No, don't burn

a bridge. Yeah. Well, it's, well, like, I'm imagining, you know, like, like Jeff Bezos is gonna be in Nashville and hosting a rooftop dinner date and wants to be serenaded.

Like, oh,

we'd take that call all day.

Like that email comes,

Jeff, reach out to us.

Yeah. Avid listener of the pod. Avid listener. Okay. So, so it's, we're talking specifically in the. The con like concerts and Yeah. You know, live music. So is there another person then that does like, record deal and like streaming and who, where, whose responsibility is that part?

Yeah, usually that's funneled through the, through the manager. Okay. And every team is different, right? Yeah. Like, um, sometimes like the artist is very ingrained in their team and like wants to be the decision maker and the manager or agents are just kind of facilitating what they wanna do.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, managers usually the catchall for, for all other aspects of the business.

Heck yeah.

Okay. That, that's actually really good to know. I feel like most people just think the agent does all the work. Like if you're so-and-so's agent, you're in charge of everything that like, brings in money. Not that's the case. Nope. Not everything.

Yeah.

Okay. So you are working through the mailroom, you get promoted to floater.

Where in this whole journey did you realize that you were gonna stick it out and make it work?

I had like mentors along the way that like encouraged me to stick to it. 'cause there's a lot of the time, you know. You're making 12 bucks an hour or whatever. Or they, they get paid more now, but back then it was 12 bucks an hour.

But, um,

like how were you surviving?

Uh, credit cards and, uh, ramen noodles and things like that. I mean, my buddy would bring, deliver pizza. He would bring a pizza home every once in a while. Yeah. Which was, which always good. But, um. Yeah, I mean, you just kind of make it work. I mean, I, we had, I had two, two paychecks.

I got paid twice a month. And the first one, all of it went to like, rent, insurance, bills, everything. And then it was the 15th of the month when we got that paycheck. It was like, all right, we're going out. We're doing something fun. Yeah.

We, we could go get like $2 beers on Broadway.

Oh yeah. And that $2, they were like nine.

Yeah,

you're right. That's so true.

Yeah. But, um, no, it was just, it was fun. 'cause like there's kind of a comradery with all the other assistants in the office there. Everybody's doing the same thing and you're doing it for the love of music and, and you're all wanting to be there so you could kind of go out and do things together.

So it made it a little, you know, suffering together was a little more fun.

Where was the closest you came to quitting?

I was working in the fair and Festival department and, um. You know, you, you interview for desks. So as desks open up, you, you, you interview for 'em and then you try to get picked. So I had like three different interviews that I did not get picked for, and I was pretty discouraged.

I'm like, man, this sucks. Like, I don't know if this is, this is for me. Uh, you know, I was really excited to work with these people and they went with other options. Um, and actually because I didn't get those three desks, I ended up getting, uh, to work for the head of the department. Uh, this guy named Jay Williams, who's a legend agent.

He does a lot of the big names in country music. And, um, that was like a timing thing. Like the reason I didn't get those three desks was why I was available for his, and he's been my biggest mentor throughout my entire career. Um, when COVID happened, you know, he kept me on, made sure, you know, I didn't get let go or anything like that.

So, um, those three failures set me up for a big success, which really kept me, uh, in the company and, and is why I'm here today too. So,

yeah. Okay. So you finally, once you get promoted to floater, are you like starting to, where do you start to get some momentum?

I think once I honestly, once I started working for Jay, for Jay, he, you know, I

was And that was his as you were his assistant.

That was his assistant.

Is that what getting a desk means? Like Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Okay. So you're their assistant, so you're just responsible for, you know, how

many assistants does Jay have?

I was Jay Williams', assistant 2 I, I had the 2 on. You had to

put that

email

signature says 2

It did. And my sister loved to give me crap for that because she was just like, oh, you're, you're not even the first one.

You're the second one. Um, so yeah, I, and

did other people get it?

In what way?

Like, like that, you know, that's like a fun playful one, but like, sure. Other people are like, dude, you're smart, you're talented. Why are you, like, why are you being someone's assistant?

I, I don't know. Um, I don't think people did, I definitely felt self-conscious about it sometimes, where like, you know, you get together, you're, you're home for Thanksgiving and people are telling you what they're doing and you're like,

oh yeah, coyote Logistics.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm at Coyote Logistics crushing it. I just got a new bonus and I'm like. I'm an assistant. I'm on hourly pay. wait, Assistant 2

There. it is there. it is

um, yeah, I mean, I did feel weird about it. I remember talking to my dad about that a lot, being like, man, did I make a wrong decision?

And how many, and how many, how long was that before you got to be assistant two?

I was an assistant on my first desk for a year. Then I moved to Jay's desk as assistant two and worked for him

for two months. And then how long were you a floater?

About four months.

So that was like, you were right around a year.

So it was like a year of the like grind, grind part.

Yeah. I was, I became an assistant after a year.

Yep.

And then I, I worked as an assistant for a year before I worked for Jay.

Okay.

So I was like in the two, two and a half year mark where,

yeah. And it's like, you're not making a ton of money.

No.

You're, at least at that point probably Nashville wasn't as crazy expensive as it is now.

No, it definitely wasn't as expensive as it's now.

Yeah. And so then where do you, where does the next break come for you?

I gained a lot of confidence working for Jay. Um. He was obviously a mentor and just taught me a lot and just being on his desk and seeing him work with such big clients.

So yeah. Like who, and at this point, are you still like starstruck when you get to interact with talent or no?

Um, no. I just, I try to treat 'em like people 'cause that's what they are and, uh, yeah, I obviously respect them and what they do and, uh, you can be in awe of their talent, but they're just, they're human beings like you and I. So,

yeah.

No, I Was

that a lesson you learned early?

Yeah, I think I just kinda like, I took social cues from other people, kind of like, you know, you don't go up to 'em and just be like, oh my God, your first album that like, changed my life.

Like, they're just kinda like, okay man, nice to meet you.

Yeah.

I, I think everybody has this conception of like, they know the artist because, you know, you see 'em online and you've lived with, they're ingrained in your life, but you're not ingrained in there. So,

yeah.

Uh, I think sometimes that can turn people

off.

Was that, did that like, take away some of the fun of music?

I don't think so, because I loved like. Getting to know them as a person. Yeah. And, and it kind of made, made you respectful.

Who

was the first artist that you really got to know?

Trying to think. Like Brothers Osborne. They've always been like, just really friendly and like, good people.

Yeah. And I get to kind of like get closer to them and their team. Um, yeah, I mean, it, it kind of depend it like, it happens slowly. You just like, you know, you have one interaction and then

Yeah.

You know, the second one and then they start going, oh, hey Alex, how are you? And you're like, oh, okay. They do. Yeah.

Do you remember who? I'm well.

And I think that's like the number one thing that I've learned is if you want to, you gotta be, you gotta be a friend, not a fan. You know, like if you want to get invited to do interesting things like that. Like you can't be like freaking out ask. 'cause those people do get like.

Paraded by fans all the time. Yeah. Like, just bombarded, you know, like, sign this, do this, take this picture. And like in some of these like spaces, they just wanna be people, you know?

Absolutely. And I think you always have to remember, especially at a show, like they're, they're at work, you know? So you wouldn't want someone like, you know, knocking on your door in the middle of the day and be like, Hey, uh, nice to see you can, can you sign this and take a picture and do this and do this?

You're like, dude, I'm in the middle of an email right now. What are you doing?

Yeah. Okay. So you start to progress through there. You're, when do you get bumped to, do you get bumped to assistant one?

Never got assistant one. Um, I end up moving to another desk. Jay was, uh, what we call RA only. So he didn't have like a booking territory.

He just represented a group of clients.

Wait,

who were, uh, he does like Chris Stapleton, Luke Bryan, Eric Church, Dierks Bentley, Ashley McBryde. What Brothers Osborne. I could, he's literally like a legend in Nashville. Yeah,

bro.

Yeah. And

this is, this is like ear early on in Stapleton's, like singing career.

Yeah.

So I was on his desk when, uh, the CMA performance with Justin Timberlake happened. So I got to kind of watch that like ascent, which was pretty cool.

No way.

Yeah, so that's where I learned a lot of stuff was from him. And like,

like what do you learn it,

I mean just like his, his style of like how he agents and

Yeah.

Like what's the work look like? Like when you're an agent, what is the actual like tactical work that you're doing? And what's the scoreboard? How do you know if you're good or not?

You, you're not getting fired, I guess.

Yeah,

because, because success with an artist, again, it's all kind of luck. It's hard work and luck, you know, um, of whether it's gonna work.

If everybody knew the formula, then it'd be pretty easy. But, um, in terms of like what the, the work looks like, it's a lot, it's a lot of networking and like social aspect of it and just kind of like. Always being in the know, I think. And, um, you do that, you, you know, things by talking to people and having relationships and um, kind of trading information that way.

Uh, obviously there is like the, the deal aspect of like cutting a good deal,

cutting a good deal on performing.

Yeah.

So like, gimme an example. Um, 'cause this is like where it starts to get, like, it seems the job is a lot of, you know, mingling and socializing and hanging out. Sure. Um, so you need to, on one side be building relationships with artists.

Yep.

Up and coming artists or artists that maybe looking for a change.

Sure. Okay.

So like, you know, finding, I mean, you talk about this like the Red Clay strays three years ago, you know, knowing that there's this band that's has a real interesting sound that's coming up. Then on the other side it's finding the places that you can book them.

Yeah. Who's, is it direct to these venues or is it like Live Nation where you're like, Hey, you're booking multiple shows?

Both, uh, it depends like. Who sometimes the venue can like contract the promoter, the Live Nation or an ag to come in and kind of facilitate that booking for them Sometimes they have an in-house booker.

Um, so it, it really varies on the level and the type of venue you're trying to book. But yeah, that's who I'm talking to, to try to submit offers. So it's really a lot of the times in the beginning it's like I'm trying to pitch the venue to want to have the band come in and play

your, so is it more important to have really good artist relationships or venue relationships?

I think it's an equal, A mix of both.

Yeah.

Um, if you have that artist relationship but don't have the venue relationships, you're not going to be able to get that offer for your artist. Mm-hmm. Therefore. Your artist is probably not gonna be too happy with you if you can't get them offers. Um, and I think it's vice versa.

If you don't have the artist, then I don't have anything that I can sell the venue. So, yeah, it's a mix

of both. And so venues, how does the, the, the economics behind that work?

When you cut a deal, it's just, you're, you're looking at all the revenue that is made from a concert and figuring out how you wanna split that up between the artist.

Okay. So let's say like, let's just like speak figuratively, the Vogue theaters right over here.

Mm-hmm.

So if, if I wanted to start my own Nate Spangle promoter company where I host concerts at the Vogue, well, 45 already does that. They do a great job. Yeah. But like, so I would go out, I have the space. I know that I'm gonna host it at the Vogue.

Maybe, maybe sometimes you might own the space. I would go out and work with someone's agent to say like, how much do does Luke Combs want to play? Sure. At the Vogue.

Yeah.

And they'd say $10 million. Right. And then. Do you just cut them a check? Or is it like, is it a rev share of tickets or how does that all work?

It's all up to the artist and the agent of how they want to cut that deal, I think is, uh, every artist is different. So you could say, I want a flat fee, or I want a percentage of this or that. Um, yeah. And that's kind of what my whole job is, is negotiating, trying to get the best deal for that client.

That's really interesting too, 'cause it's like some people, some artists, um, when they're like getting, like, you don't wanna sign 'em in too early if they're gonna explode and like, you know, you know it's gonna be sold out.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and they can get a really good, uh, ticket revenue versus like, if they're still like, kind of up and coming and they could have the opportunity to play a really cool venue, but you don't wanna like overprice them.

Yeah. Yeah. It's all give and take and trying to figure out a

puzzle

out the sweet spot. It's a puzzle.

Yeah.

That's the whole job. Yeah.

What's been the the most surprising part of like, trying to figure out and work those deals?

I think it's just always changing, you know? Um. Just trying to stay educated on it and learning what other people are doing and, and kind of taking like little things from everybody to, to figure out what the best deal is.

Um, but it's just fun. It's like, you know, you're trying to do what's best for the artist at the end of the day, um, and you wanna fill the room. It's, it's like the, uh, it's the delicate balance of making sure you're getting them what they need, but also making sure you're facilitating

what's the biggest mistake an agent can make?

Assuming they know everything. Yeah. You never know everything. Yeah. Um, I think that's probably one of the biggest things that I've learned is like, no matter where you are, no matter how successful you've been, there's always something that you can learn from.

I'm thinking too, in terms of like, how fast does an artist want their show to sell out?

Uh, that's a good question. I think it depends on the artist, you know?

Well, 'cause it's like, if it sells out in five, in one minute mm-hmm. Then the venue isn't big enough. Right?

Yeah.

You have to assume that

it, I think it depends too, like a lot of artists are just grateful that they can sell out a venue now.

You know? It's like, not everybody can do that. So, um,

keeping me on my toes,

Alex, I guess it, it depends who your artist is. Yeah. Some people would be like, oh man, that sold out too quick. We could have gone bigger. But some people are like, yeah, I'm glad it sold out. We leave more meat on the bone so we can go bigger the next

time.

Yeah. What's the typical progression in Indiana? Like if, if you're an artist that's kind of growing mm-hmm. Let's say like, you know, year over year, getting more popularity over the course of five years, what's your venue progression look like?

Uh, it depends on the demand, but let's talk best case scenario.

You're

just, well, I mean, like, do you have any examples? Are you, do you, will you book Indianapolis for your

Uh, yeah, I do. For like, my clients that I represent. So like Red Clay Strays is a great example. Um, I think the first time we played here, we played the deluxe and, um. And Old National Centre, which is like 900 tickets.

Okay.

Um, and they sold that out. And then we were going to play the Egyptian Room at 2000 and ended up, uh, moving to Murat, which is 2,500. So we did that. That was a year in between. Okay. Um, so that's first year deluxe. Second year Murat. And then the third year, uh, we did Everwise Amphitheater, uh, earlier this year actually, which

is like 12,000, 10,000 cap.

Uh, it's like 6,500.

Oh, it's only 65?

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh,

you'd be, you would think that you, you see the crowding? Like that's way more,

yeah.

Yeah. 12,000 would be like Pacers.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's the next one up. Okay. So you end up, so like, Everwise down, down. Mm-hmm. And then are they coming back again in 26?

They're not coming back in 26, but, uh, we'll, we'll get 'em back here in 27.

How do you rotate? Cities.

Yeah, typically, um, I mean, you're, you're looking off of demand, so you can do that by looking at their streaming or pass ticket sales or anything else.

All that data has to change

the

game.

All of the data analytics,

even in your last 10 years, like you got into industry in 2015, now it's 2025.

Like has to have changed the game.

Yeah. There's uh, a lot more nuance to it. I don't know how they did it back in the day, because I'm sure a lot of it was like a guessing game to say, let's go to Indianapolis and see if we could sell any tickets. Like, yeah,

they got a pretty good steakhouse there.

Let's go to Indy.

Yeah, let's go there. You know? Um, so yeah, I think it's looking at data and analytics and just also, like, I always talk to the band. It's like, did you know, was there a certain city that the crowd just felt, you know, more into it? And, and that was one I remember with the strays. They'd, they'd, I would always come to the show, obviously, 'cause hometown, I gotta, I gotta show up for that.

But they'd be like, dude, something's in the water in Indiana. They love us here. So yeah, typically we wouldn't go back. Um. To a venue like we, you really want like 12 to 16 months between, you know, returning to a market. Uh, and even then the bigger venues you play, you want more and more time built in between 'cause there's more people coming.

Well, but like, uh, you think if someone, because like you also rep, did you say rep? What do they say? How do I

Yeah, yeah. Rep represented

you. Rep, yeah. Rep is

the,

you know, the inside term.

Come on. Uh, Gavin Adcock.

Yeah.

Who opens a lot for Morgan, right? He's opening, he opens

for Morgan.

Okay. So like, Morgan just came to Indy

two years ago or something.

Was it? I think it was not that long ago.

I think it was two years ago. He did um, was it

2024?

Yeah, he did double Lucas Oil.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No triple.

Did he do triple?

I think he did Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

It's incredible.

I think him and Taylor Swift did three nights. I'm, I'm pretty sure

insane.

Don't quote me on that.

Could have been double. At least double. Yeah. But then he's, he's coming back again. 26. Mm-hmm. And doing double. So like. He, for him, for example, he's been on tour for, I don't know how long.

Oh, he's been doing it for, I mean, probably like 2014 now. He's at stadiums, so there's only so many stadiums that can have concerts.

So I think he's working like 20 shows a year and then just flipping out those 20 on different markets. So

that's,

and he's selling 'em all out too.

Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, I got tickets to, uh, to both nights when he is coming in. Did you really may I think it's Mother's Mother's Day weekend.

Yeah,

it's, I'm going Friday, Saturday.

Oh yeah. I'm like, nosebleeds are one. And I shelled out. Like we're, we're in middle of the road for the next one. I'm so excited. I love it.

Yeah. I've seen him a couple times. I, uh, Gavin opened for him in Toronto and Miami, and I caught both of those shows a lot.

Yeah. Well, what happened to, why, why did he, why did Gavin not make it to Indy?

Oh, man. We had another opportunity. It was, it was one that really, we had, uh, an opportunity to be on that show as well, and, and we couldn't take it. And that one pained me a little bit. I. I was telling his manager, I'm like, are we sure there's nothing we can do to be in town that weekend? So I can go to Lucas Oil and

yeah.

See Morgan Wallen. But maybe I'll just have to come up, uh, just, you know.

Yeah. '

cause I love Morgan.

Come on. It'll be a good time. Hang out.

You have an extra ticket for me.

Uh, we could make, it's

probably sold out,

bro. No, we sure. We could pull some strings.

He'll figure it

out. Um, well talk to me. Right. Who was the first artist that you got the opportunity to represent?

Yeah, so the first one that I have still now is Connor Smith. Um, so his agent, he was actually at a different agency, uh, and his agent came over, um, and I think wanted some help on the project. And so, uh, he, you know, kinda talked to our bosses and said, you know, hey, who's a young agent who I could bring in on this?

Um, and my name was brought up, so he pulled me in. Uh, and I was able to kind of take the passenger seat on learning how to represent the artist side of the career. Um, and yeah, so I've been working with him, gosh, since. 2020. The end of 2020 is when we signed him and

his, his like big song is that Creek Will Rise.

Creek Will Rise. I Hate Alabama.

Yeah. Okay. I was gonna say, I was like trying to think of who that. Okay, so you get the opportunity to work with him. Mm-hmm. And that was like your, you get promoted how quick after you got promoted to agent. Did,

like I got promoted at the end of 2019 and then COVID happened, so the live industry shut down.

Um, so there wasn't much to do. It was just like calling venues and being like, I know you're not booking any shows right now, but just, you know, this is who I am, just catching up with you. So I was just trying to like get to know those people and create those relationships. Um. And then, yeah, I probably got pulled in on the Connor team, like a good year in, I, I wanted to get like my bearings and figure out how to do the day job of like booking the venues and then, uh, before you start like navigating an artist's career for him.

Yeah. Okay. So you get Connor

mm-hmm.

But you're also working for booking the southeast,

so you kinda have two jobs as an agent. Yeah. Your, your day job and, and what you're getting paid for is to facilitate, uh, the entire country roster. You're basically selling and pitching those artists to clubs in your territory.

So mine was the Southeast.

Southeast. What size venues putting, put it in Indiana terms.

It was anything from, yeah, from like the Vogue to Murat, you know.

So are you like a

thousand to 2,500?

What kind of artists are you, are you helping get into the southeast at that point?

At that point? Um,

for like the WME represents,

yeah.

I'm trying to think of who, who we were booking. Like Corey Kent, Connor Smith, some Cooper Alan stuff. Just pretty much anyone who wanted to go out and do some hard ticket touring. And you're just,

when you say hard ticket

touring, sorry. Hard ticket would be like a headline show and soft ticket would be like playing the festival.

So like you don't really have to, you're selling tickets to the festival, but that artist isn't responsible for selling those tickets. A hard ticket would be going to the Vogue and it's, you know, Nate's show he's here. Yeah. You have to sell those tickets, you know.

And is it more on the promoter or the artist to sell the tickets?

Uh, both I think. Um. It's the promoter's job on paper, I think. But uh, unless the artist is like also, you know, lifting their weight on the same side, then okay, it's not gonna be

successful. So you're doing that day job, you know, you're helping get people booked in small to medium sized clubs.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

And then your other kind of job is, you have Connor Smith

Yeah.

That you're helping with all of his.

Yeah. So when you sign an artist, basically all those other Territorials, so people from the West Coast and the Midwest and all my other colleagues, they're getting offers from their territories and bringing them to me.

And then I'm facilitating that with the manager and artist saying, okay, here's a route, you know, here's this tour we, that we put together. This is the ones that I think we should do. These are the ones that I don't think we should do. Here's why. Um, who

puts together the route?

Uh, the culmination of all the territorial agents.

How much effort goes into planning out the, the like stage?

Like,

uh, the staging or

no, sorry, not the stage, the route that you're, you're traveling, you know, like, we're gonna go to Cincinnati, then up to Indy, then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. So what you do is you get a veils. So you basically, you know, you say, Hey, I need, uh, your open dates for these three weeks.

And then they tell you, and then you try to, you literally sit there, I go with a map and I look and I have a pencil, and you figure out how it can work so you're not sending the artist to New York and back and whatever else. So you wanna make it like financially feasible for 'em. Um, but then you'll run into pieces where you're like, okay, we're gonna go from Indianapolis to Chicago and down to St.

Louis and then back home. And then two of those markets won't have the date that you need, so you gotta jumble it all up again. It's a big

puzzle. And like how if, if an artist or a group is on tour. How many weekends are, like, how many days a week are they gone versus home? And like, how does that kind of work?

Uh, Gavin, this year we did like 105 shows, uh, where he's playing. And then you add on all the travel dates too. So I mean, it's, for some of 'em, it's, it's probably half the year

dude.

We're on the road. I mean, it's a tough life and, and they really work hard because they're living out of a suitcase. A lot of these guys aren't in buses.

They, you know, they're, they're still slumming it, they're in sprinter vans and, uh, doing seven, eight hour drives through the night.

Like, wait, at what, at what level do you get a van or get a bus?

It depends on like how much money you're bringing in and like what your tour financials look like. You know, it's harder for a band because you have more mouths to feed rather than a solo artist.

But, um, yeah, everybody's different. And, uh, sometimes you can get a tour sponsorship that covers that kind of thing. So

What is it, what is like a like,

um. Raising Cane's presents, you know, Gavin Adcock.

Oh, okay. All right. I'm following. Yeah. So where, what was the order that you started to bring on Gavin and then the Strays?

Strays, uh, strays were after Connor, um, probably around like 20, 23. And Mike,

how big were they?

They've been a band since like 2017, and they were doing like 120, 150 shows a year, which is insane. And they had this, uh, they had this band, it was an old church van, they called The Breeze and it was just, it was like a little short bus.

They, uh, they kind of gutted it and they built like their own, like bunks in it and everything. They had like, you know, video game TV in there, like all just outfitted that for them, that they did themselves. Uh, they would, I think it had like, over like 750,000 miles on it. Um, so they were playing so much where, uh, the manager was also the agent.

He was just kind of doing it all and uh, he was like, I can't. I can't keep up. There's too much going on. There's too many shows I need to outsource this and, and hire an agent. So, uh, they called us, I think, I think it was like 2022 and

like how they're doing a bunch of shows, but like how, like not super big venues?

No, it was like all a hundred to 500 caps, you know, they were pretty small. It was, it was basically wherever they could go play, they would, they would get in the van and go do it.

Dang.

Sometimes they, you know, they, they would get like a hundred bucks in a bar tab and, you know, they'd just figure it out. So,

dude,

they have an incredible story.

Uh, they've done a couple podcasts. Um, they, they did Joe Rogan and Bert Kreischer, all that stuff. I saw that. And they tell some pretty cool stories about that. But yeah,

dude. Okay. So where'd they get on your radar?

I, I mentioned before I had, I'd had a relationship with their manager before, just from like mutual friends and like, kind of kept in contact, um.

Then I actually saw them, or it was someone's story, it was like at their show in Nashville at Third and Lindsley And I remember seeing it and kind of like backing up and watching it a couple times. I was like, who is that? You know? So I started following them on Instagram and then literally the next day, Jay Williams, who I worked for, uh, he called me and said, have you heard of this band called the Red Clay Strays?

And I'm like, they were just in my algorithm like last night. Yes, I watched that video like 10 times. He said, yeah, well I think, I think we're gonna get a meeting. Like we're talking to the manager, do you know who Cody Payne is? And I'm like, I also know Cody Payne. Like I knew him, you know, back in the day.

And we keep in contact and stuff. Uh, he's like, all right, well great. Well we're gonna set up this meeting. We're putting a team together. Um, so if you're in, you know, let's do it. So we did a signing meeting with them. We brought 'em into the office. Did the whole dog and pony show, you know, had,

like what are they judging their decision on?

I think it's, everybody's different, but, um. I think for them it wasn't about like the big agency necessarily. I mean, I think that helped, but I think they were looking for like personal champions in them who like believed in them. Um, so we did this big meeting, uh, in our office and, and they said it went great.

Uh, you know, we went into all the data and the analytics and we had slides and put their faces on the TVs, you know, when they came in and everything. Um, and then they did all those meetings at all these different agencies and then they hit us up the next day and said, Hey, you know, before we drive back there from Mobile, Alabama, um, they said, before we drive back to mobile, would you guys wanna go like, grab lunch?

We have a couple more questions for you. So we just went, me and Kanan, we went down to like a local restaurant called Gumbo Bros. Uh, we had a beer. We didn't talk about business at all. Like we talked about, you know, our lives and, you know, music that we listened to and our families and things like that.

Um, and later on they told us, they were like, that was the meeting that. Put us at WME with you guys was because we just got to know you as people and we felt like you guys were gonna be our champions and like kind of fit into our family that they were growing. So,

yeah. And I think that what, whatever the industry is

mm-hmm.

A lot of times people wanna do business with people.

Yeah.

You know, and like, and there is just that feeling that you have their back and like a real per, like Alex, Alex is gonna do right by us versus like this big, you know, faceless enterprise.

Uh, we always, we always talk about it. It's like there's good, there's good agents at every company.

And so it's finding, it's finding one that you believe in that is gonna like, beat the drum for you. Um, because you know, if you're at a big agency but you don't have anyone beating that drum for you within that agency, um, then it's not gonna work. So, uh, you gotta treat people, uh, the way you wanna be treated.

I know that's that like, you know, the cliche golden rule, but, um. It's the golden rule for a reason, right? You, you wanna treat others how you wanna be treated. And and also for I think artists, they wanna see, uh, their team members are gonna work just as hard as they are. Like they're spending, you know, 200 days a year out on the road away from their families.

They wanna know that we're grinding just as hard in the office and doing everything we can for. Yeah.

Where did uh, you end up crossing paths with Gavin?

Um, so Gavin is a funny story too. Uh, his manager was actually an assistant at w me at the time, and, um, they'd went to college together and he was kind of gaining steam.

And, um, this assistant kind of said, you know, I think I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna go manage Gavin. Um, I really believe in this guy. And you know

how, like, how big of a gamble is that for. Someone to go out and bet on an artist.

Uh, pretty big. I mean, you, you're kind of, if you're an assistant at wme, you know you got a paycheck coming to you every, every week.

Um, if you're going and managing somebody, you don't, you know, if it doesn't turn out, if, if they, if, if the career goes away, so does your job, you know? Um, so yeah, he took a big gamble and, and left. And then same thing, we kind of, you know, had meetings with, he had meetings with everybody. We had a meeting with him and just, uh, really hit it off.

And, uh,

where's Gavin from?

He's from Watkinsville, Georgia.

Watkinsville, just

outside of Athens, so,

oh, there we go. Okay. Gun

dogs.

Do you, there you go. Did, uh, do you know what, like, what convinced him to. Same with you.

I think the same thing is the strays, probably is, you know, he felt that belief that I had in him and that I was, you know, gonna work hard for him.

And I think that's what every artist wants is just to, to feel the passion and, and that not only are you passionate about what they're doing, but that you're gonna work hard for 'em. It's just like anything else. You know, if you're hiring an employee, you wanna make sure they're, they're gonna bring their all every day.

So

from Indianapolis mm-hmm. Moved down to Nashville. You've been living down there for 10 years. It's blown up. Yeah. Like, it's, it's a probably a different place over the last decade. Talk to me about the growth you've seen in Nashville over the last decade and what you think a leading driver of that is.

I mean, obviously it's the tourism, it's everybody wanting to come down and experience Broadway and, and have their Bachelorette and bachelor parties down there. Um, but honestly, it's just, it's a great community and, and it reminds me a lot of Indianapolis in that way too, is like, you know, it's Hoosier hospitality is what they say a lot.

It's, it's also the southern hospitality. And, um, I think people just wanna come down and be a part of it. And it's special to see all that talent down there and it's fun. Um, but yeah, it's growing. It's a, it's a very close knit community. Everybody's kind of rooting for each other.

I would say Nashville is probably, you know, in the spotlight more than Indianapolis, unfortunately to me.

What do you think, uh, Indianapolis could learn from Nashville that could help continue to make Indianapolis grow?

I think showcasing like that personality, Nashville has the music. Like that's, that's the thing that it kind of rallies around and I think. You know, Indianapolis, obviously we have great sports teams and everything like that, but I think defining what that personality is of Indie and why it makes us unique, we need to showcase that more and so more people want to come and experience it.

Yeah.

I mean, what would you say if like Indie went all in on racing, like I think did

the greatest spectacle in racing

than, yeah. And like in adjacent to just the 500, there's a lot more in motor sports in general, but if we just went all in on like I feel like being known for something, even if, you know, racing isn't everyone's cup of tea, but neither is country music.

Yeah.

You know, like that's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's become way cool. Had, had, 10 years ago we gone all in on being the motorsports capital, all these things. And then like the rise of F1. Like

the rise of F1's crazy. And that's what like, you know, we, there's an IndyCar race in Nashville now.

It's the Music City Grand Prix. And, uh, I went this year and everybody's just all in on it. And, uh, it, it is uniquely American too, I feel like, 'cause it's obviously from Indianapolis, but, uh, with the F1 rise, I think that there's gotta be some competition there for us to

Oh yeah.

To slide in, you

know, and, and like be all, all about it.

I, I think it's cool. And what's interesting is F1 came to, or sorry, IndyCar came to Nashville, I don't know how long it's been doing that.

I think it's like three or four years,

but like, because it's just relevant. Mm-hmm. Like country music, music is relevant. So then now there was the Music City Grand Prix.

Like they might host the. Racing city country music awards or something, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Maybe

we do that.

That's good. There's a

new music festival

or something. Yeah. Like when you, when you start to get the relevance and whatnot of for something mm-hmm. Other things come alongside of it, you know, like Nashville went all in on country music and now has grown to just music.

Yeah.

And now has grown to entertainment and has grown to racing and there's just so much stuff happening down there.

Yeah. And I'd say that with Nashville too, it has grown just from country music. Like you said, like now you go, you can go see any type of genre of music. All the time because it's just music city.

So yeah, there's always concerts, there's always things going on, and it doesn't, it's not just country anymore.

So, yeah. I mean, but yeah, it all got start with like the OGs, you know, you're talking about like people used to think of Nashville, it was like Dolly Parton.

Mm-hmm.

The Grand Ole Opry like olds in the name.Yeah. You know, like. Which I think is kind of cool as a, as a lifelong country music fan, I think it's cool.

Oh yeah, it's definitely cool. I mean, uh, you, you have to edu educate yourself from where you came from and, and the history of it and it's pretty cool.

Hey man, well, hey, we've come towards the end of the show.

We had a couple fun, couple fun segments here. It's been really, really fun learning about the journey from mailroom to agent. I'm sure we could get into some insanely crazy stories. Uh, we'll have to say that for part two.

Yeah. Off camera.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. I do wanna know where have, and I'm sure there's been lots of them.

Mm-hmm. But where has been the moment where you've just taken this all in? Like, holy smokes. I'm a country music agent. Mm-hmm. I represent award-winning music groups. Like, I don't know, where was the moment?

I think a couple times this year, uh, have been pretty special. Red Clay Stray selling out, uh, Everwise Amphitheater, being in the hometown and just watching a sold out show in a venue that I grew up going to, that was pretty special for me.

Uh, my family came out, uh, and they, you know, support me all the time and go to all these shows, so it's fun to get to experience that with them. And then I think, honestly, last week at the CMA Awards, that was pretty surreal. Uh, we did not think we were gonna win. And, uh, I like literally 30 seconds before they announced the award, you know, we kinda said like, oh, we're not expecting to win.

It doesn't matter. This stuff doesn't, you know, make a difference or anything. And my partner, Kanan kind of leaned over to me, he goes, dude, I don't, I have a weird feeling. I think we're gonna win. And I'm like, don't say that right now. You know, we're not, don't get that idea in my head. And, uh, and then they announced the award and my wife was sitting next to me.

And, uh, that was pretty, that was a pretty surreal moment. And then getting to celebrate with the band was, was pretty cool.

I mean. That is so sick.

It was unbelievable.

And everyone, unbelievable, everyone, I will say, you're not saying this. I'm, I'm saying that a lot of people in whether Twitter or whatever thought that last year was the year too, like 2024, like

they were up, the internet was upset about

that.

The internet was up. Like that's just facts. The internet was very upset saying that you guys were robbed, they were robbed last year of that. And so you go in there with, you're like, you know what? Like, it's not about awards, but I love that someone's like, I think I have a good feeling about

this one. I have a good feeling about that.

And, and it's not what you do it for. Right? I think the coolest thing about our job is that, uh, you know, my favorite thing to do is. When Gavin or Strays or Connor or anybody's out on stage, I always face the crowd and, and watch the crowd's face. That's the most rewarding thing to me, is to look around and see, you know, that sparkle in someone's eye and people smiling or hugging each other or dancing.

And that's so cool that I have a little piece of bringing that to a community and that is even more special in Indianapolis when I get to go to those shows.

Oh dude, I love it. And, and for anyone that hasn't listened to the strays, like obviously Gavin is, is really good too. Yeah. The strays just have a really unique sound.

Yeah. It's nostalgic.

Yes. And it's almost like, I think Rogan talked about it for the first, it was like, it's like Elvis e, you know? Yeah. Like,

it's like Elvis meets Johnny Cash meets Chris Stapleton. Yeah. But it's still its own unique thing.

Was uh, and quote me if I, we'll, we'll cut this if I'm wrong. Was it Red Clay Strays that also like, switched out one of their bandmate's drinks or something during a show?

I remember seeing this reel and I thought it was hilarious. Yeah, they replaced it with like. pickle juice or something.

pickle juice. We were at Red Rocks. They did two sold out nights at Red Rocks and um. In in the middle of the show, one of the guitarists is, you know, doing a solo and everything and the bassist comes over and usually drinks his beer.

And it's like a funny thing for the crowd. Uh, and the tour manager sw swapped it out with pickle juice before he knew. Um, so you could see his, you know, you see his face, he's just like not expecting it whatsoever. And

bro, that

they're great.

Like up on stage you just like, drink a, in

front of 9,000 people.

Yeah.

At, at like maybe the most famous venue.

Yeah.

Like that's wild. And music's like, yeah. Pickled juice.

They're just all like brothers, so they always pull hijinks on each other.

That's so sick. Um, I love it. Okay. What's been the coolest show you've booked thus far?

Red Clay Strays. We booked on Bonnaroo this last year, and that was a special one for me.

My dad got me tickets to Bonnaroo, uh, when I was in college to try to figure out, he's like, you know, you should go to this festival. I'm trying to, you know. Encouraged me into, you know, working in the music business. And I went,

what a cool way

to, oh, it was awesome. And, uh, it, it literally changed my life.

It was one of the coolest things I'd ever done. I saw Paul McCartney live at Bonnaroo. It was like in 2013. Um, and so I knew, you know, I wanted to work in live music and then to kind of bring it full circle and have a band that I represent, go and be on the bill was pretty special. Unfortunately, it got rained out.

My dad and I were there. Side stage with the band, they were about to go on and then they called the festival. So

no way.

We'll have to, uh, get back there one day.

But yeah, because, so besides Bonnaroo, 'cause that's a cool festival. Mm-hmm. Have there been other festivals? Like, I went to Tortuga for the first time this past year.

Yeah. Went to Tortuga.

Dude, that's pretty sick

right. On the beach. I mean, you can't beat it. Yeah.

Are there other cool festivals that you've heard about around the country that are pretty sick?

Yeah. BottleRock's pretty cool. Where's that? It's out in Napa. Where? Um, it's just like a wine music festival. I mean, you can't beat that

odd, odd combo, but I'm here for

it.

Yeah. Bourbon & Beyond. Down in, uh, Louisville, it's a bourbon food and music festival.

I've heard good things about Railbird,

Railbird's. Awesome. Is that Louisville

too?

Uh, it's Lexington. Oh, that's

Lexington.

Okay. Strays and Gavin both played, uh, Railbird. I've not been there. Um, Lollapalooza is great, obviously.

I mean, they're all good. I mean, you, you gotta go to music festival. They're, oh, they're the, some of the best things in the world.

I always like it. It is interesting 'cause it always like leaves me wanting more. Like I went, so we went to Tortuga this past March. Mm-hmm. And we saw. Wyatt Flores, which is like, he's coming up.

Yeah, he's awesome.

Like he is young too.

Yeah, he's really young.

Like

it's, he, he also has a baby face too. Like he, he looks way younger than you. He, he

looks like he's 16. Yeah. Like, I, I wild. We saw him, I saw Jelly Roll for the first time.

He's awesome,

dude. I was like, I don't think I like jelly. Like, not that I don't like him, I'm just like indifferent.

Yeah. And then I saw him live

so good. He's lost a lot of weight too. He lost like a hundred pounds or something like

that. Oh, maybe more.

Yeah.

But he just like, that's great. He is one where he puts everything into it.

Mm-hmm.

Like at the end of the show you're like, dude, you just g That's

probably why he is losing all that weight.

Yeah. He's just, you know, running around

stage making and he like, uh, I mean, he's just been working out too.

Oh yeah.

Like him and the, him and the, I think like bur and some other guy, like did like the whole,

I did do him

five Ks.

All sorts of things. Yeah.

Who's your favorite Hoosier artist?

Stephen Wilson Jr.

Hands down right now.

Have you met him?

No, I've not met him. He played at the CMA Awards and it's unbelievable. I saw his set, he opened for Hardy. In Burgettstown, pa and I went to that show and I mean, he's just, he's special. He was like, he was like a chemist or like a scientist or something. Yes. Before and then, uh, started playing music.

I mean, he's so good, dude.

So basically, I, his tipping point happened like right around the time he was playing a show at The Vogue.

Mm-hmm.

And literally the day he got his bus Yeah. The bus, like he swapped out of whatever he was in before to, that's a,

that's a

big door day for an artist bus here in this back parking lot.

That's by the Vogue. I was like, they were telling me about it. I'm like, that's so sick.

Yeah.

And his whole story just like driving home and losing his dad like is, and then it all work. Like it all basically like coming together.

It rips your heart out though too,

because you're like, yeah. Like his music just sounds like if there was a beautiful pain in music.

Yes. That's it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and you just wanna cry every time you listen to it

sounds, dude, so it's like. Some of the time. That's the thing about like what's what's really popular in country music right now is like music that you would not play at a party. Like you can't play this. Oh no, you can't play this at a tailgate like this Isn't Toby Keith.

I love like, everybody, everybody be

quiet. We were listening to Stephen Wilson Jr.

Yeah. Like stop, like, like get everyone got their tissues and a beer like, like a glass of bourbon and some tissues. That's what's, that's

what Morgan Wallen's for, you know, to bring the live

livelihood

back. Yeah. Amen. Who's your favorite artist to go watch?

Besides, we obviously won't make you pick any ones that you rep, but

besides that No, no, I can't do that. Um, I mean we just saw, I saw Paul McCartney at the Pinnacle down in Nashville a couple weeks ago. It's a 4,000 cap venue. I have no idea why he chose to play that 'cause he's playing arenas everywhere else.

Um, my dad and I went to that one, Paul mcc, I mean, he's a Beatle, so you can't beat that. Uh, Zach Top awesome. A big Zach Top fan

dude. He does rock too.

He's great. And he has those slower songs too, where you're kind of, you know, you get in your feels a little bit. A guy I do rep, uh, his name's John. He's, uh, like.

He's from New Orleans. It's like Cajun rock, like soul fold sound. He's awesome. Uh, I just saw a show of his last week. I go to so many shows I really can't keep up or have a favorite. I usually have a favorite until I go to another show, and then that's mine for the week. So

where's your favorite venue in Indiana?

I used to go to the Emerson Theater a lot when I was a kid. It was like for like punk shows and stuff. Uh, I don't think it's there anymore. I mean, I love Old National Centre. I think it's just such a cool building and like it has three very different rooms in it, which is fun for me. Yeah, Everwise is awesome too that the new addition, how they like put that awning on it.

It's pretty sick.

Yeah. How does RU stack up against outdoor amphitheaters across the country?

It's one of the best in the country, actually. So

like, and I think that we say that, but it's like,

no, no, it

is, we're from Indiana. Like you're, you, you're from here, but you have like a good perspective.

So all the artists that do, we call 'em sheds, you know, they're just, it's the stage and you know, the, the roof and then they usually a big lawn, all the sheds, any artists that go and play 'em, they're like, they look forward to going to rof, but okay.

What does everybody call it here now? Because I used to just call it Verizon 'cause that's how I grew up going to it. Yeah. Or Deer Creek. But do people say Ruoff? Ruoff. Okay.

Yeah, it's ru until like, I bet the

good branding, they changed

it. Yeah, I bet the, I bet the naming rights are probably up here soon and it'll be something different.

I know. 'cause like I always say I worked at Clips, but then now it's Ruoff and then,

yeah. No, and like I feel like it rotates, you know, every decade or whatever. Yeah.

Uh, I love that venue though. Oh, I, I used to go to Dave Matthews band all the time in the lawn. I mean, had a great time.

What would make Indianapolis more appealing to continue to get bigger artists?

I don't think you need to change anything. I mean, it, it, it's literally a favorite stop of multiple of my artists that they like to come to. Um, and, and I mean, you're getting everything. Yeah. All the, all the big acts are coming through here. I mean, Taylor Swift, Morgan Wallen, Taylor Swift, I, you can't do much better than that,

dude.

I did not go to the Taylor Swift show, but I was down there during the madness.

She had her picture on the jw. Right. Yeah. I mean, that is pretty cool. I think. I think you guys are doing it right. I mean, it's a fun city to come travel to and like I think people can feel that the Hoosier hospitality and uh, like I said, strays always say there's something in the water down here that they, you guys eat up music.

Yeah. When you think about, you know, being from Indiana, growing up here, what have been some of the best qualities or best things about being from Indiana that have carried you into your career?

The work ethic of people here and just like. Having that, that hospitality. Honestly, I keep going back to that, but like, I think that's something that I subconsciously learned growing up is just like how to treat other people and treating people nicely.

And, um, that has helped me in my career, just having those relationships and gardening those things. I don't think I could have learned that anywhere else. And you, you, you just wanna do right by people, you know, and, uh, I think that's going to take you forward at any aspect of any career. Um, but yeah, I, I think because my career is so relationship focused.

Uh, I've learned a lot of that through, uh, my relationship here in Indiana.

What can we expect out of the strays Gavin Connor? They're already blown up. Mm-hmm. You know, award-winning stuff, but it, like what's to come?

Uh, we're gonna keep continuing to do shows. Uh, there could be new music coming out. Uh, we're gonna have new tour dates announcing.

I'm, I'm very sure we just, uh, we announced one for Strays. We did Bridgestone Arena down in Nashville, so

that's where the, uh, pres play.

Yeah. So announced. That. Announced MSG with, with the Strays. So, um, more of that, I mean, just more of the same thing. Just wanna be out on the road selling tickets.

What's like, the pinnacle?

Hey, we know, we've like hit the top of the top. Yeah. If we book out blank.

I mean, every artist will probably tell you like, we, we wanna go play a stadium one day. I mean, that would be pretty cool to do, but

like you saw Madison Square Garden, like, I feel like that's like a big piece

piece. That's one for a lot of people I think.

Like Madison Square Garden, red Rocks, the Ryman. Um, those are usually like the top three

that like those are the, yeah, like the Mount Rushmore of places to book.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

That's pretty sick.

Those three.

We've come to the final portion of the show where we get to talk about all things in Indiana. We ask every guest who comes on the show these same three questions.

Great. So you live down in Nashville, you've traveled the country, you've been all around working in the country music industry. Mm-hmm. What's something the world needs to know about Indiana?

Who's your hospitality? I know I keep going back to that, but like it truly is something special. You come here and people just treat you differently and in, in the best way possible.

And I think everybody just needs to come experience it for themselves. Um, a good place to do that is the Indy 500. I think people need to know more about racing, need to adopt that as the personality, as you say.

How do we, how do we get the crew to the Indy 500?

Oh, we get, that's gonna be easy.

Like, like Gavin is like built for turn three of the Indy 500.

Oh, you gotta get him like doing the snake pit or,

yeah,

they do the stuff. Tailgate, pregame

and stuff. Yeah. Uh, legends day, the day before. Like that would be a good one.

Okay.

I mean, you think about stuff like that, like, oh my gosh, we do, so this is actually the Indy 500 is how I ended up doing this

really.

We were growing the podcast and I really wanted to get people to listen. So I was like, we have to go and do something big. Mm-hmm. And so I put out a video and I was like, I'm on a mission to be the first truck in the infield at the Indianapolis 500, and I'm gonna host the first ever all Indiana tailgate.

So beer, breakfast bros, beef buns, everything was was from Indiana. Awesome. I ended up buying a truck off a Facebook marketplace, like an old 1986 Dodge. I flipped it, I documented the process, flipping it. I got to the race the day before. I ended up selling sponsorship, getting all the stuff donated. I said, anyone who shows up at the tailgate can have whatever they want for free.

So we brought in like 400 beers. Like we had everything and like people were showing up and just like, oh my gosh, I've seen this on Instagram and blah, blah

blah. And you were the first one in the info. I first one

in the

info. What time did you have to wake up?

Uh, I didn't, I just went there at, I just stayed up all Saturday and just went over there on, um, Saturday night.

No kidding.

I got like two hours of sleep in the driver's seat of this like bench seat truck. It was great. Whatever. It was worth it. Um, but then I ended up. I got almost a million views. I gained 15,000 followers and I made 10 grand during six weeks, like leading up to the race. Mm-hmm. Walked in the Tuesday after the race and I was like, Hey, it's been fun.

I'm gonna go try to build this media company thing. No kidding. I ended up acquiring the podcast for my previous company and the rest is history.

The rest is history. That's

crazy. I've been the first truck in the infield the last two years at the Indy 500. Same truck.

We gotta get Gavin out, dude, and, and get him into that truck.

And

then

Oh yeah.

We have a big party

dude. We like bring a DJ killer. So I got front row spots in turn three. Mm-hmm. We were four wide last year. So like more people have like joined this like mission with me.

Dude. Roll. Who needs the snake pit? We're gonna have our own, we're gonna have tailgate

party.

Come

on.

Bring some speakers and maybe Gavin will do a set or something.

Come, dude, that would be, you talk about like having all the, like, like last year we did a wheel,

uh,

so we had a big prize wheel that like they were punishments like loosely. Sure. So it was like spend five minutes in the hotdog suit or we brought our own bricks.

Like old bricks that you had to kiss. Yeah. Or like winners drink milk and we brought a hundred cup. Cartons of milk so people could spin this wheel. That's fun. You get a punishment. But one tiny sliver was win $2,000 and we gave away $2,000 in. So someone hit it. Yeah,

no

kidding. The the fricking fourth spin of the day, someone hit it fourth.

Yeah, bro. It was honestly,

so if they hit it net another time did

have to give, I circled out, uh, I made it 200. Okay. So we ended up giving away one, 2004, two hundreds.

Oh, they hit it again?

Yeah.

Wow.

So we ended up giving 2,800 bucks. And don't do that

next year.

No, we're doing it again. 'cause we had over a thousand people that came this year.

Okay.

So you, it was insane. You gotta pay

back you,

dude, I'll send you a video on it. It was nuts, but that'd awesome. But in 500 is the move. So much fun. Love

it.

Um, I, that was totally a rabbit hole, but always fun to talk about. Doesn't

matter.

This is where you get the opportunity to give a spot some love that more people need to know about that aren't talking about it enough.

What is a hidden gem in Indiana?

The hidden gem for me is Brown County. I love it down there. Uh, being, you know, going to IU, we were close by. Uh, great hikes out there and they're actually, their music community is growing so much. My Andy, who I moved down to Nashville with, his parents live out there and she's always sending me the announces for, uh, artists coming through and they're getting some, some pretty big traction at the

Brown County Music Festival.

Yeah.

And then they have a new, um, they have the new venue down there.

Yeah. Yeah. Wait, sorry. The Brown County Music Center.

Yeah, dude, like Maren Morris just announced a show there, which is like a pretty big deal for them. And I mean, I think it's Brown, like, think had

Travis Tritt,

like,

oh yeah, they've had a bunch of people, what

was it, ZZ Top, top, like top.

They

get some

decent ones down there,

down. I think it's great. I mean, if you could go do a hike out there, especially like in Autumn or something when all the trees are changing and then go to a nice music venue and see someone. Pretty cool. I think. That's awesome

dude. And a Hard Truth is down there and they have like an awesome distillery.

That's just huge. Yeah. And it feels like you're on the bourbon trail. Absolutely. Okay. This is your chance to show some love to somebody else, uh, that has ties to the Hoosier State that we need to know about. Who's a Hoosier? We need to keep on our radar. Someone who's doing big things.

I mean, I, I've said it again already, but, uh, Stephen Wilson Jr.

Obviously everybody needs to go check him out. He's unbelievable. Um, I'm trying to think of some other artists that, that are coming up. I mean, Hank Ruff is great country artist from Bloomington. I love Hank. Uh, there's this new kid that I just found, uh, he's living down in Nashville now, but he is a country artist named George Pippen.

Uh, he's from Indianapolis. And, uh, I just, I caught him online and, uh, I really like what he's doing.

Oh,

uh, The Main Squeeze is a band that, uh, played down in Bloomington and they're doing some pretty big things now. Um, so yeah, I'd say those, I mean, I gotta say this. George

Pippin.

Yeah, he's awesome, man.

What, so, like, what is he like.

He's living down in Nashville, like playing off Broadway. On Broadway. Like, where have you seen him play?

I've just saw his videos, um, not too long ago. A a mutual friend of ours, I think they like, went to high school together. Um, and she kind of like, I've, I'd followed him and she goes, I saw you just follow George, like, are you, you know, a big fan or something.

I was like, I just found him. I, I love his voice and he's got like a real raspy, soulful tone to him and he's fantastic. So.

Wow.

Yeah, he's at another agency too. I mean, we, I, he's like at the competitor, but I'm just, just such a huge fan of his, so Yeah.

That's sick.

Yeah, he's real up and coming, but he's awesome.

That's dope, dude. I love it. Um, man, Alex, it's been a pleasure learning about your journey from Oh man, from banging pots and pans as a kid to going down to Bloomington, finding your way, figuring it out. Like I think that a big piece of the entertainment industry, you, you said it earlier, it's like, it's not a hundred percent talent, you know, it.

Be able to put together shows and figure out how to like, you know, make money and be able to fund tours and all that fun stuff. It's been awesome to learn your journey from mailroom too, working all the way up to, I mean, now you rep a CMA Award-winning group. Like that's pretty insane. Yeah, right. So, cool, man.

If people wanna learn more, I will say Alex is a hard person to learn about on the internet. Like, it's not just like, Hey, connect with this guy on LinkedIn. But if people wanna learn more and maybe there's a kid out there that wants to learn about, um, you know, getting into the music industry, what would, what would your advice be?

I think, uh, to get into the music industry, you know, set your goals high. Always have your eye on that goal, and continue to work hard and persevere through anything, knowing where you're wanting to go and just. Anything that you do day to day, have your eye on that and, and you'll be able to get there and work hard.

So,

uh, I love it, man. It's been a pleasure getting to hang out with you. I have one final plug for you actually

what you got

the next time you guys are in town, you need to, you need to take some guys down to Clayton's. Have, have you heard of the new Country bar in Indy?

So I think we're going on Saturday.

Yeah.

Um, my parents have been. A bunch. They're, they love,

dude, it, last weekend Bert Kreischer is on stage pouring out shots into people's mouth, like after his, uh, comedy show in India. Like, dude, it's, it's wild.

Clay Anderson's awesome, man. He's been, he dude, he's really been doing a lot for the city and I mean, he's been plugging at it's super talented dude and I love that he's kind of bringing that like Broadway feel to Indianapolis.

Yeah. He's like, you know, Indianapolis artist with his own bar. It's killer.

Yeah. Like crazy.

Yeah.

So cool. I love it, man. Well, hey, thanks for stopping by and we'll talk to you soon.

Awesome. Thanks for having me.

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