[00:00:00] My guest today is Jack Walker, and he is the president of Walker, an Indianapolis-based experience management consulting firm with more than 85 years of expertise, helping organizations make change make sense. Now, Walker helps organizations improve customer, employee, and patient experiences by aligning data and decisions to drive business impact, and I promise you, he told me before this, we're gonna make that, uh, make sense to the common folk there.
It's a really, really interesting business that I'm super excited to dive into. Now, Jack joined the company in 2014 and became its fourth-generation leader in October of 2024, continuing a legacy started by his great-grandmother. I love that, fourth generation. Yeah. Come on. Under his leadership, Walker is a platinum consulting partner of Qualtrics and was named their 2026 North American Partner of the Year.
We love to see that. His belief is simple: most organizations don't have a data problem. They have a connection problem, and the opportunity is making sure feedback isn't just collected, but used when decisions [00:01:00] are made. We all know how that goes. I'm really excited to dive into... We're gonna learn about this fourth-generation Indiana business.
Jack, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Nate. Heck yeah, man. Okay, so we'll put it out there to start. Most of our, let's say, legacy listeners, we'll say legacy listeners, are gonna know Walker as Walker Research. Yep. I believe that's what it started as. Yep. 87 years ago. That's right. Your great-grandmother started this business.
I gotta hear this story. Yeah. Tell me about it. 1939, Dorothy Tommie Walker started on... as a part-time deal to try to provide a little extra money for the family, uh, a research business, and, um, her first clients were actually her husband's bank, which, uh, wanted to understand if the radio ads that they were putting out, uh, were resonating with people.
So she'd go and interview housewives in the neighborhood and ask simple questions to measure and essentially if, if that, uh, radio ad was reaching them and if that Um, hit its [00:02:00] mark for what it was trying to do. So that's how she got her start. Your great-grandfather worked at a bank- Yes ... and said, "We don't even know if mark..." I guess the, the age-old question, is the marketing working? Yeah, yeah. Are the marketing dollars being spent efficiently? Yep, yep. And, and your grandma, or great-grandma- Great-grandmother, yep ... would go around the neighborhood and kinda hold court and talk to all the different people in the neighborhood- Yep
and learn about, "Oh, have you, by the way, have you heard about," whatever the bank was? That's right, yeah. Wow. So that was the first one. Another one was, like, a local grocery store that wanted to know, uh, make decisions on how to stock the right products and, and so she would, again, do in-home interviewing of, of h- homemakers, uh, and- Yeah
understand their preferences and take that insight back to the grocery store owner to take action. See, when you say it that way, it makes a ton of sense. Like, w- w- did they know that she was interviewing them for a work thing, or d- was it kind of like, uh, undercover? I don't know for sure, but I imagine- Hmm
it was, it was known, the- Yeah ... [00:03:00] objective of what she was asking, yeah. You know, like, "Hey, Julie, I'm coming over. I'm, you know, learning. 'Cause if we get this information, our local grocery store will stock more of what we want." Yeah. Like, we, it can make our lives better as homemakers- Yep, yep ... if, you know, we come together and kinda get a little bit of collective bargaining there.
That's right. Wow. Yeah. So it expanded from just her. How did it grow- Yeah ... and, and maintain to become an 87-year-old company? Yeah, so my great-grandfather, her husband, died of a heart attack suddenly in his 40s. Oh. And, uh, that was obviously a pivotal moment in their life, and, uh, she decided to go all in on the business for what was a part-time gig.
quite the risk, uh, but a necessary risk given, given she had two small boys, one of them being my grandfather at the time, and, uh, went all in. And, you know, and she was a pioneer in the market research industry. Uh, op- you know, eventually led to opening the first, uh, consumer test kitchen in the, the nation, where we- they'd invite consumers into a, you know, simulated fake kitchen inside a building [00:04:00] like this, and they would inter- see and watch how the consumers would interact with certain consumer goods produ- products in front of or behind a two-way mirror of the company that hired her to do that research.
So when, is that when it went, so after your great-grandfather- Mm-hmm ... unexpectedly passed away- Yep ... that's when it went from just, like, her interviewing- Like a side thing ... part-time side hustle- Yep ... to, "I wanna make this a business." I'm gonna- I gotta make this. A true entrepreneur. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So when you hear the story, were there any pivotal moments in your great-grandmother's life, like, in that business journey that set them up to- Yeah
continue to, to survive and to make it? Yeah. Like, big customers that came through? Well, it's pro- like, every customer, right? You know, the first customer's the biggest one of taking a risk of, wait, you're, I'm, you're gonna hire me to go, uh, do this? And, and it being her husband's, um, uh, employer, you know, even further of a risk for, for that company- Yeah, well-
to trust her ... especially after his unfortunate passing- Yeah ... it's like, well, you know, if he, he was, like, a leader [00:05:00] within the organization, you could've said- Yeah ... that was keeping it together, and now they're like- Yeah ... but, but obviously, you know, had to have done great work. Yeah. And this is early on. I mean, this is the 1940s at this point.
Yep, yep, yep. I don't know what research and development looked like then, but, uh, I'm sure that, that the data they were bringing in was super, super helpful to, you know, today's modern consumer brands. Ultimately, yeah. I mean, it, uh, that, that's part of the history and legacy of the company that, you know, I feel real sense of honor and duty to carry forward today, 'cause we've always helped companies measure and improve the experience based on the insights of, uh, asking their customers or, or f- um, uh, researching what their c- customers are doing.
It just looks a lot of different ways by the different eras, eras, uh, and technologies for how you can most effectively do that at scale. Yeah. So- Like, so back in the day, right, you're talking about going out to people in the market. Are they hearing the radio? Very manual. Yeah. Yeah. Hearing- Yeah. So then I'm sure she needed to hire more- Yeah
staff to go out and poll people. And she hired a lot [00:06:00] of housewives that, you know, ultimately they would get, get a little extra money for their family- Yeah ... uh, to interview. And so without a, a big piece of it would be go out and do interviews. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then from there it shifts into, is that when the test kitchen comes?
Yeah. Or are there other innovations throughout the time? No, I think that was the next kinda major, uh, foray beyond just, like, interview service to, okay, we're, we're actually gonna do, like, ethnographic research, like watching people actually use products in a- Yeah ... simulated environment. Um, you know, from there- Do you know, like, who, like what some of the customers would've been- Yeah
for the test kitchen? Um, so I know, uh, P&G, Kimberly-Clark. You know, those were customers long ago. Uh, I, I don't know if they're exactly in that era, but you know, I remember old pictures, and there's one in, in our office right now of, like, seven different pancake mix, uh, laid out on a table with little, with, with little cards.
And so, you know, clearly they brought in, um, some, some people off the street, uh, as, as sample, uh- Yeah ... to kind of test out seven different pancake mixes for whatever consumer [00:07:00] product brand hired us And, uh, ultimately that feedback was taken into account for product development and ultimately launch.
That's, so interesting. Uh, you think about watching from your two-way mirror. Like, w- imagine just where was the original office at? Where was your- Uh, we've been all over town. Uh, the original office was in Broad Ripple, actually. Oh. Yeah. Right down the street. Yeah, yeah. So just imagine, where ... Was that where the test kitchen was as well?
Uh, I don't know where the test kitchen was. Okay. I'd have to go back and look, research that. Im- imagine, imagine the test kitchen being right here in Broad Ripple, like where Old Pros Table is. Yeah. And you're walking down the s- I don't think it was there. You're walking down the street and someone's like, "Hey, do you have a minute to make some pancakes?"
Yeah. And it pulls you into the- Uh-huh, uh-huh. Like, that would be so wild. Like, "Honey, you'll never believe what happened to me at work today." Yeah, yeah. Like, the craziest thing. And so you go from, your great-grandmother goes from test kitchen- Yep ... uh, obviously doing polls. Like, how has col- the collection- Yeah
of survey responses and data- Yeah ... changed throughout the years? Yeah, so like '60, '70s, that's when, um, you know, telephone, uh, surveys and data collection became prevalent. That's when my grandfather [00:08:00] also joined the company and was the second-generation leader. So we would have call centers all across America, and then we'd have partners across the world, uh, in order to field global studies.
And we would be the, sometimes the annoying people that would call during dinner, uh, to get feedback, uh, for the research we were collecting. Um, and then, uh, you know, the '90s happened, the internet comes. Uh, everything shifts from phone to web in terms of mass data collection, but there's still Plenty of good reasons to do in-person and, you know- Yeah
i- in-depth interviews like we did in 1939. And then now I think we're at, um, just another, uh, tipping point from a technology standpoint with what AI brings and, uh, the risks that brings to our business and the way we help companies now, but also the opportunity side of what, um, is there as well for what we can do our work more effectively and help our customers.
Yeah. And I'm excited to get into that- Yeah ... 'cause I think there's a ton of in- innovation happening right now. I do wanna talk about, so [00:09:00] thinking through, you know, the telephone and that survey piece, did Nielsen start out as a research company? And is that how they became, like, the TV research company?
Yeah. It, it, uh, it, we'd be under the broad umbrella of market research. Yeah. And then just various niches form, and obviously they've been very successful and have a very big niche in terms of- Yeah ... measuring, uh, viewership, um, on, on things. But- Yeah, which is wild. Like, they became the, like, I don't know, probably like one of the most famous research companies.
Yeah, yeah. And, like- Gallup at the time too. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Especially for employee surveys, so. Yeah. Yeah. So it is interesting of, like, the little n- uh, niches, like, kind of within research. Did- Mm-hmm ... did your family, as they were coming up and growing the business, find a sweet spot that they really honed in on?
Yeah. So we would've morphed, uh, probably, like, in the '90s, 2000s from, like, this broad market research and researcher type of firm to what then became known as customer experience. So not so much, [00:10:00] uh, you know, research for product development or, or whatnot, but actually, like, broader than the, the discipline of just collecting data or measuring an experience.
Um, but, uh, or satisfaction or whatever, but actually, like, what do you do about it to take action to improve the future experience? Uh, and, and kind of this, the cycle and loop that happens- Mm ... from that. So, uh, get, got a lot into, like, culture and organizational understanding of, of how to actually consult and, and create the positive change, uh, from the insight collected through the, the feedback loop that we did.
Yeah, 'cause that's a big part of it- Yeah ... is like a lot of people, you know, set up... Even the smallest businesses, you can set up a post-purchase survey. Yeah. And it's like when you get that data, it's like what are you doing and how are you putting that to work? Yeah. So would this be like, oh, man, I think about today, if you're on the phone, the most, ugh, the most annoying call.
I'm on with like AT&T or like internet or cell phone, and I'm like, "Something is broken. My bill's too high," whatever. Yeah. And they're like, "Oh yeah, by the way, will you stay on [00:11:00] at the end- Yeah ... for a quick three-question survey?" Or- Yeah ... and it's like those type of things. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But, but t- in today's day and age, I would argue that survey should never even happen- Mm
because the technology exists now where they, you can just process the call recording and, uh, understand sentimental and if that was a positive or negative experience, an easy or hard- Yeah ... uh, experience. So we're not even having to ask or solicit that information. Yeah, like, "This call's being monitored for quality and training purposes" or whatever.
Yeah, oftentimes for quality assurance. Yeah. I've worked in a contact center before, but- Wow ... um, yeah. I mean, it, it's app- applicable for a, a way to, uh, you know, process and understand customer intelligence that provides a fuller picture than just always defaulting to a survey, which we do a lot of, but it's, is by no means, like, the only thing or application we use in order to help our customers understand their customers better.
Wow. So what started as, you know, in person, at the mall, wherever it might be- Yep ... you're pulling people in and, you know, offering surveys- Yep ... to [00:12:00] phone. Now, obviously with the internet- Yeah ... oh, there's just like so... Where, where is most data collection for the research happening? Uh, web still. Yeah. Yeah, especially at scale.
I mean, you know, most of our customers are, like, Fortune 1000 companies, 500 million, a billion dollars and more, uh, in terms of, um, you know, really at scale, how, how challenging it is in a complex organization to, uh, capture in, uh, customer insights at scale and have those organized so that they can be processed and understood and actioned across a really big organization.
Yeah. Uh, that's where a lot of our work does. But, um, there's still some of those same principles exist within smaller companies. It just becomes a little easier from a complexity standpoint. Is, is there a massive, you know, Fortune 1000, Fortune 500 project- Yeah ... that you can talk about where, "Hey, we went out for XYZ brand."
Yep. "We collected this many responses, and it ended up creating this." Yeah. [00:13:00] Um, so as a good consultant, I can't divulge, uh- Yes ... client names, but, uh, I mean, that's a really awesome thing about working at Walker, just, uh, the, the brands and customers that we have the privilege to work with. It's so fun to drive around town and, and, and notice them all, all the ways they show up.
So, you know, I'll, I'll give one example, like one really large, uh, software, uh, company. Uh, they do B2B software. So a, a company would hire or, or would, would purchase their software to manufacture their products. Uh, and we help them, um, for a, through a variety of different listening for their customers, one of them being a, a, a traditional web-based survey relationship, uh, study that they field with their customer set on a, on a regular cadence and, uh, collect information about what's working, what's not working, what's good about the experience, what's not.
And we compare that with, uh, operational data that they have a- about their business in terms of, like, how often they're contacting support, uh, or calling into the call center. And kinda that's [00:14:00] where it's really becoming really high potential now and exciting for, you know, where we can merge those two data sets and create insight from that.
So, like, one, one of the interesting takeaways of this recent work was, uh, everybody's ... Most people are familiar with net promoter score. You got promoters, passives, and detractors, a common way to, to ask a question in a survey and get at, uh, sentiment of that customer. So for passives, people that are kinda in the middle, they don't love you, they don't hate you, uh, we found that if, if, uh, a passive customer, uh, if they have not contacted technical support, uh, within the last six months, there's a high risk that they will, um, reduce their, uh, annual recurring revenue, uh, with, with this client, uh, in the future, and so, uh, four times more likely than some, s- the average customer.
So to be able to, to get that insight and now create a system of action where when we see that profile across their broader customer set or be able to predict that, that, [00:15:00] that can save a lot of money from potential churn and, like, a proactive intervention. So- Like, that's kinda crazy 'cause you think about- Yeah Obviously you wouldn't want to do this, but it's like you see that, oh, if they've contacted support in the last six months- Yep
like they are m- they're, they're likely to be a happy retained customer. Yeah. There's actually a healthy amount of- Yeah ... contacting customer's- Yeah ... support in a B2B software company. Yeah. So you're almost like, okay, now just turn on this like quick little bug that they're gonna have to contact support about.
Yeah. To make sure that like- Hopefully not ... you know. But- Hopefully it's like trying to push the limits of the software, right? Where they're really engaged with the product and that's the reason they call support. But yeah. Yeah. And they're like, okay, like p- start to push a new feature, give them opportunity.
Yeah. 'Cause it's like, have you ever been... I mean, I'm sure there's data behind like people who get offered the beta testing- Yep ... for new features or- Yep ... new parts of it. Mm-hmm. Uh, and it's like, hey, you know, that's kind of like a, the support, um, aspect where you're getting to interact with an actual human being.
Yep. And it creates stickiness for your brand. Yeah. That's so interesting. Yeah. I'm really excited to dive [00:16:00] into this evolution of- Even let's say when you joined the company in 2014- Mm-hmm. Yep ... you're collecting all these survey responses, all this data. I'm sure that someone, a human being in some capacity, had to be digesting all of this and creating this probably 100-page PDF report of the entire study and giving recommendations to the business.
Yeah. You know? Like, I'm sure that was a lot of people's jobs at Qualtrics. Yeah, it still happens today. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm sure- And there's still value in that- Yeah ... but there's a lot of, uh, um, roadblocks with that approach as well. Yeah. Well, I mean, talk about, like, the, the time. Yeah. Like, I'm sure you had, you know, data analysts and data experts, data scientists- Mm-hmm
that were in there in the spreadsheets totally looking and validating and trying to find trends. Yep. Like, was that, like, a piece of it? Like, like, someone's job was to look at this data, the entire set- Yep ... put a few filters and, like- Yeah ... mess around with it to find trends in the data? Yeah, in SPSS or, you know, some analytical software a couple [00:17:00] decades ago.
That still can be done today. Yeah. Now it's baked into the technology Qualtrics, which we're a, kind of a leading partner on and, and is the technology that we help our clients accelerate and use within their business to achieve this outcome. Um- What is Qualtrics? Can you explain? Qualtrics is, uh, the enterprise software leader in, um, enterprise feedback management.
So, uh, collecting, um, customer, employee, patient sentiment at scale. Okay. And it's, uh, you know, high security, so, uh, you know, all... a lot of enterprise companies, they have Qualtrics as part of their, uh, enterprise data stack of all the technology that they have, uh, to capture that customer information and analyze and act on it.
Nice. Okay. So, so we help companies really get the most out of that software. Are, are they in a specific niche? Like, are they- Um, it'd be enterprise feedback management- Okay ... experience management, yeah. So just big, big scale- Yeah ... data. Yeah. Okay. So you would then... Okay, let me, let me put this all together so it makes sense.
It... Let's say, you know, the largest company in Indiana- Mm-hmm ... comes to you all. Yep. [00:18:00] And then you would be using the Qualtrics software- Yeah ... to model the data, keep all... Like, where did AI start to rear its head in Qualtrics? Yeah, so they, they, they are coming out with, and they have cam- come out with their own AI, uh, functionality, uh, in terms of, like, a- Um, you know, assistant within the actual platform that you can ask natural language questions to- Yeah
as opposed to trying to find it on some multi-page dashboard. Uh, that just being one example. So they'll continue to do that. But there's also potential beyond just kind of what I would categorize as, like, experience data which is captured and held within, um, Qualtrics. Experience data is, is what people think, feel, say, really solicited, captured information- Mm-hmm
in terms, like survey data, for example. Um, but there's also in companies other types of data, operational data, like how much a customer spends with you, where they're located, uh, things like that. And then behavioral data, what they actually do. So, so much is digital now, so we have, you know, [00:19:00] companies are, are flooded with, with logs of data of, like, how much someone interacts with their website or how many times they've called the contact center.
So really behavioral, operational, experience data, all of these are forms of customer intelligence that can help paint the picture for if the experience is good or not and differentiated or not, and then where are the gaps and how do we create differentiation for our customers? Wow. What's the most interesting way you see people collecting data today?
Meeting their customer where they want to. So we're inundated with, you know, the, the emails as consumers of, "Oh, here, fill out a survey," kind of thing. Um, so as much as possible where we don't actually have to solicit that, uh, the better, and that's e- more and more possible by today's technology. Uh, but also even from a solicitation standpoint in a traditional survey sense to not just go through email but through text or WhatsApp or, or within the app that they actually have themselves- Yeah
to, to, to, at the right moment, solicit feedback that's not an annoyance for [00:20:00] asking feedback. I was gonna say, have you been seeing, um, whether it's on Instagram or- Mm-hmm ... YouTube, I've started ... Like, ads have been replaced with, "Hey, uh, here's four brands." Yep. "Which one of these have you seen an ad for recently?"
Yep, yeah. "Or which one of these would you be most likely to buy?" Yeah. Sometimes I've never heard of any of them. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, that's not ... And it's like that's just learning about- Yeah ... you know- They're pretty effective to be able to watch your YouTube video a little faster. Yeah, ri- So Totally. And I like the fact that it replaces, like, the skip ad.
Yeah. And it's like, hey, you know, you take- Yeah ... five seconds. I can be in control of when I get to watch my video. Yep. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll answer this. Yeah. It's super interesting. Some of the best creators that I know, like content creators, always give the feedback. Like, you should be polling your audience.
Yeah. Like, yes, the algorithm sometimes tells you, you know, your, your best, you know- uh, Instagram video, your best podcast episode, all the stuff there. Yep. But if you're asking your audience and getting that feedback, you can learn to create more of what they wanna see. Yeah. And it's, like, kinda crazy to think that sometimes we don't ask our [00:21:00] customers what they...
We, what is it, like, the Steve Jobs, like, everyone's got a little bit too much Steve Jobs in them, telling people what they want. Yep. Versus the, like, no, go out, collect information. Yep. Even if you're a small business, the data can be really, really powerful. Mm-hmm. Do you have any stories or examples, let's say, if there's a small business owner out there that maybe doesn't have a huge budget to go out and run- Mm-hmm
a huge research project- Yeah ... ways that they could start collecting and implementing feedback within their business today? Yeah. Well, nothing replaces talking directly to your customer. Yeah. Uh, you know, I think a lot of where we just, um, help especially these larger customers is that's just not possible for, for- Mm-hmm
the thousands and hundreds of thousands of customers they have. So for a smaller business where you're, you know, especially in a leadership position, you have... You're, you're interacting with customers more, uh, there's a tremendous, uh, sense of what lives in your head, right? That how do we get that out of your head and more broadly help culturally how that applies and gets actioned and lived across your employee base.
Yeah. Um, for [00:22:00] ultimately the experience that come from the interactions with your employees, uh, especially if you're more of a service-based business where they're not interacting with a product or a, a digital screen, but the experience happens through an actual employee of your firm. Yeah. So. I, I feel like there's a few examples.
Uh, I can't think of any off the service side, but on the product side. Yeah. Uh, I'm a huge fan, there's a local brand called HomeField. Uh-huh. Conner Hitchcock started it. It's, like, vintage college apparel. Yeah. I have some T-shirts, yeah. Oh, they're so great, right? Yeah. And he, like, you have ... He had to get licenses and build up, like, um- You had to build up, uh, hype.
So, like, you started with, like, IU, then got Purdue, then, you know, Notre Dame, local licenses, all that stuff there. But there would be other, you know, universities and colleges down the road that, you know, we're gonna launch whatever it is. We're gonna launch Mississippi State. We're gonna launch, you know, Tulsa.
And getting the feedback, like, I just think of how that, the machine works. Getting feedback of, "Hey, what colleges should we put out next? What [00:23:00] products do you wanna see in the market?" And, like, a lot of people ask, like, "Oh, what do you wanna see?" But, like, maybe it's in the Instagram DMs or on comments, and they're not, like, collecting that data.
Yeah. 'Cause then if you were collecting the data and the contact information, when you do finally bring that product out, you have a list of people like, "Hey, don't just buy this. You helped us bring this to life." Yeah. Like, how much ... When you have a little skin in the game, like, oh, the business really listened to me, and- Yeah
now they interacted and, and created what I told them to make. Yeah. I'm definitely opening up my wallet. That is huge. One of the biggest mistakes, uh, companies make when they try to go about, um, a formal collection of feedback from their customers and asking for their, their feedback is they, they, they collect it and then do nothing about it or never close the loop with their customers of, "Hey, thanks for doing this.
This is what we did based on the time and investment you made to share your feedback with us." Right. And that's, like, such an easy thing, but that so many companies miss. And as you do that and do that over and over and over again, that builds real trust with the customers that you're soliciting [00:24:00] feedback from, and it ultimately creates, uh, a higher level of trust that I think just creates a s- a flywheel for ultimately benefiting your business beyond just collecting feedback.
Do you have any examples of businesses that listeners would know about that have just mastered the collection of their customer data- Yep ... and then acting on it and then closing the loop with their customers who gave them the data? Yeah. So, um, one of the top 20 most valuable companies in the world, sorry, not as- Yeah, yeah, yeah
as relevant for, for what we can all connect to, but I think it, there, there's, there's a simplicity behind the work we've done with them. We've worked with them for 25 years. Yeah. Uh, high-tech, uh, manufacturing firm. Um, they, they don't do any web-based surveys. It, it's all done in, um, uh, one-on-one in-depth interviews that we get on a Zoom call or even visit in person with an executive at these various software technology companies, and we go through in-depth, in-person or on Zoom, a, a total back-and-forth conversation around their customer experience with [00:25:00] this firm, and then ultimately, you know, package those insights up, find what the themes are, report back.
They make macro level changes for how they, uh, uh, go about their business for the next year for their entire customer set, but then also, uh, the individual account managers of these very high-value customers follow up individually with each of those customers and go through, "Hey, here, we love that we are doing these, this right.
We, and we're gonna work on these things that you shared with us." And they've done that for 25-plus years, and just that consistency of following up and following through on the significant time investment from an executive to take 60 minutes to, to, to sit down and talk to us or on behalf of our customer, uh, that builds incredible trust and the continuous loop of, I think, ultimately that they get back in spades in many different ways beyond just feedback.
I think that when people think of surveys, they're like automatically it has to be I win a gift card or I win, you know, whatever. I get the ... Some of it's like I get the opportunity, the chance to [00:26:00] win a gift card. Yeah. It's not even like guaranteed. Yeah. You know? When you think of the best survey respondents- Mm-hmm
how, who are they, and how can local business owners or leaders, uh, be tapping into the sweet spot of survey responders? Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. Well, again, in our domain, it's, it's your customers. So how do you get your customer to take the time to give you feedback when you solicit it? So, uh, y- you know, one, one of the big no-nos is just to, um, send them something out of the blue without kind of saying, "Hey, this is coming.
I'd really appreciate your time to spend to actually provide us this feedback with whatever medium that you're using to collect that," and the reason why you're asking for it, and then what you're gonna do about it. Yeah. It seem- it sounds so simple, but just that mere act provides the context. Uh, they know it's not spam when it comes through.
They know e- the exact reason why you're gonna use it, and if you have a relationship built with them, that you're gonna use that for ultimately their benefit- Yeah ... later on. Well, and [00:27:00] I feel like today, y- you know, with data and analytics- Yeah ... you should be able to, like, segment off your power users. Yeah.
Whoever is buying the most shirts from you or using your software the most, and it's like if you lead that email or that, uh, that message, however you're contacting them, with like, "Hey, we see that you absolutely love XYZ software." Mm-hmm. Like, "We wanna make it even better for you, and we want you to help us do that."
Yeah. We ... And you make them feel like they have an ownership s- stake in this product that they love. Yeah. Oh, my, that's way more valuable than 25 bucks to Amazon. Yeah. A- a- and again, like, how many ... What are all the scenarios we don't even have to ask a survey? Like, I mean, um, yes, we do surveys, but we really, that's not our default way we, we interact with our clients.
Like, you take, for example, again, the digital. There's products that track every digital move or m- move you make on a, on a digital website. So they have a thing called rage clicking. So there's software that can detect when you get frustrated and you just click the mouse over and over and over again.
Like, hey, we don't have to ask if you had [00:28:00] a bad experience. We can use that behavioral data of- Yeah ... your rage clicking to say, "Hey, there's something wrong here. Let's fix it." The first time I ever saw someone demo Hotjar- Mm-hmm ... to me... Have you heard of Hotjar? I was shocked. Yeah. It was like it re- just records sessions on the website.
Like, it knows where you're clicking, your hotspots on your website, the buttons that are broken, the but- like, where you should be clicking. Yeah. It's ... If you're a small b- I think it's like ... That, that type of thing is, like, relatively cheap- Yeah ... to ins- if you have an e-commerce brand. Like, it was an e-commerce founder demoing this to me.
Mm-hmm. And I was like, "Oh, my goodness." Yeah. And then you can act off that data, use it in your design- Mm-hmm ... the whole nine yards. I just think today, so you think of things, tools like that, as well as all the different ways that you all are collecting data. Mm-hmm. There's so much data. Mm-hmm. How are you not overwhelming leaders with this, uh, availability of data?
Yeah. And how do they, you know, not get overwhelmed and then ac- actually make decisions using it? Yeah. [00:29:00] So oftentimes, the, the issue is not we need more data. Now, there's, there are situations where you're gonna wanna go out and solicit and try to capture more data to, to solve some gap, but most organizations have lots of data.
So yeah, it ... The more of the challenge is just making sense of the chaos. And all this data lives in different systems, especially if you're a bigger organization, where you might have customer intelligence live across, I don't know, a dozen or multi-dozen different technology tools in your tech stack. So how do you bring it all together?
You know, I think one emerging thing we're seeing in, in trying to, um, you know, push our, some of our clients too is are, are, are some of these platforms like Databricks or Snowflake that exist that are really built to unify data across the organization into a centralized intelligence later, layer. Like, I know Snowflake.
Yeah. Like, I read, uh, it's Frank Slootman, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think he was, like, the, one of the big CEOs there. Yeah, I think, yep. No idea what they do. Yeah. Like, I know that they were valuable. Yeah. I think I was like a, I was a Robin Hood, like, stockholder of Snowflake. Yeah. Could not tell you what they do.
Well, I can [00:30:00] explain. Yeah. So, uh, data warehouse, data lake. So essentially what that means is it w- for all the data that exists in your organization, that's the place where you would, um, unify it in one central location. Like- And you actually don't have to move the data. There's now, like ... You can, like, stream it, so it's streaming.
Even though it lives as a s- system of record in a different technology tool, you can form a connection where you stream the data so that it's live in Snowflake or Databricks, along with other data you're pulling from other various systems, where then it's unified and then you can analyze it better with all of the data in one place, and then ultimately action on it too.
'Cause, 'cause the piece that I feel like a lot of people need help with is the visualization. Yeah. Like, we can ... Like, I've- It's complicated ... I mean, I mean, I've even started doing that from, like, a, an AI perspective, is like- Yeah ... I can plug all the things in. Mm-hmm. Like, like, uh, I put it down to, you know, like, when you have your 10 different HDMI cords into your TV.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or, like, when you and ... I don't know if anyone, like, played Xbox in the, or, you know, mid-2000s, but when you'd have to plug the hard wires into each other- Mm-hmm ... [00:31:00] before Xbox Live existed. You have LAN. LAN. Yeah. Come on, now. And it's like we can plug all that in, but a lot of times it's the visualization- Yeah
and then the action of it. Yeah. How are you, w- when you see people streaming data to something like Snowflake- Mm-hmm ... how are then they visually- Yeah ... seeing the data? Yeah, so I mean, you can create dashboards, but I think dashboards are dying and are gonna be dead. Uh, I think there's always gonna b- be a need for, like, your, your go-to metrics that, like a single page, like high-level dashboard.
Mm-hmm. But everything is gonna move to a, uh, chat, AI chatbot-like experience. Natural language processing where you can type in, "Hey, I wanna see this data cut by this way," um, or, or, "Help surface what's going wrong in my customer base." And you don't have to go find, you know, page three, tab four of some multi-page dashboard to go surface this insight that needs to be pre-configured.
You're just gonna natural language have a chat like you're doing with O- you know, uh, ChatGPT or Claude or whatever to ultimately surface that. So that's a lot of what we're trying to help move our customers [00:32:00] towards. So yeah, all the data they have in Qualtrics from an experience standpoint for what's solicited from their customers.
But the rage clicking and digital behavioral data or the operational data, how do we help them unify that in a, in a Databricks or a Snowflake, oftentimes a, a system they have, and then add this, um, technology where you really truly get like a 360-degree view of the customer of all the customer intelligence we have about them, uh, to, uh, be able to ask a question and it return an answer.
Wow. You know? That's pretty wild. That's where we're going. Like, has the last couple years just totally revolutionized, like, how you guys are thinking and, and how fast things are moving- Absolutely ... and with how you're serving this data to your customers? Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I mean, it's a huge risk for, you know, um, a lot of the, the business we do now and help our customers, but it also at the same side as the flip side of the coin is an opportunity because we see where this is heading and how our, uh, discipline of experience management, uh, evolves into the future based on the [00:33:00] latest and greatest technology- Yeah
just like we did it for the internet, phones, test kitchen, and the in-person interviews. So. Yeah. And it's, it becomes less of a, you know, we're out there collecting the data and- Mm-hmm ... you know, totally researching. You're probably still doing a lot of that. Yep. Again, AI is not at the point where it's out, you know, having surveys with people- Yeah
in real life, but it becomes more of like, we're helping you mold the data. Act on it. We're helping you act on it. That's the hard part. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Because in the past few years, you guys, um, rebranded- Yep ... from Walker Research to Walker, right? When was that? Uh, we actually, Walker Information, uh, pri- after Walker Research.
Now we just typically go by Walker even though- Yeah ... it's Walker Information Inc. is our legal name. Ah, yes. Uh, but, uh, we, we had a, we did a brand refresh last year. Yeah. Um, hired Y&L for that, local company. Yeah. They did a fantastic job, and I think it really, um, it, it, it fits more of what we are now today is I would consider us more like an IT services and, and change consultancy [00:34:00] around customer centricity versus, like, market research- Yeah
uh, base. So. So there is... 'Cause I mean today, a lot of it is, you know, there are the, oh, the Hotjars or the whatever softwares of the world that collect- Mm-hmm ... you know, the, the rage clicks- Rage clicks, yeah ... and, and whatever they might be. Feeding that all in there, and then you are helping- Yeah ... executives- Understand what they're looking at- Mm-hmm
and then act on it. Yeah. Yeah, and there, there's just from a human component, like again, a chat-like experience where you can, uh, prompt with a question and it returns an answer, that's, that's gonna be incredibly valuable. But also, like, uh, I know I don't wanna be cringe, but the agentic reality and for sure future.
So agents, all these agents people keep talking about. Yeah. Businesses are creating agents. Well, we would argue there's a huge risk and also a huge opportunity for the customer contacts we serve in organizations to really make sure that that is a really strong experience. 'Cause I have a prediction that all these agents that are gonna get stand- stood up, they're gonna be using, um, enterprise data that's not gonna [00:35:00] consider the human element of how they actually perform a task autonomously.
So, uh, if experience data isn't in that unified customer intelligence layer like we talked about, then, uh, it's gonna optimize efficiency or cost savings, and it's not gonna be a human-centered, um, feel to how that agent actually performs the task that it's supposed to do. And so we're gonna get tons of backlash.
It's gonna be good for us because cust- companies are probably gonna struggle with when they put an agent out there, and then customers are like, "This, this stinks." Yeah. You know, this is ultimately, yeah, it, it got y- it helped you not staff somebody in a call center, but this is a terrible experience. Yeah.
It didn't solve my issue. So I think a huge opportunity to make sure that we have experien- help our com- clients make sure that experience data factors into the context that those agents work off of. You use the call center analogy. Mm-hmm. Tony Hsieh, the founder of Zappos, and he talks about the experience after you make a mistake- Mm-hmm
is where you can really win over- Oh, yeah ... a lifelong [00:36:00] customer. Huge. And so you think about someone calls the service hotline, they're, they're hopping mad, ticked off. Everyone knows when you have a great experience. You know, like if you call into something and, and you have a even a mild, like average experience- Mm-hmm
it makes you even madder at the customer- Mm-hmm ... or at, madder at the company. But if you call in and you just have the greatest experience, someone is like over the top, the human part of it is amazing, you're like, "Oh- That's why I love this place, because they fix problems quickly. Yeah. And you can almost be better than if someone just walked in, bought the shoe, or, you know, ordered online, bought the shoes, they got delivered, versus they got delivered, it was the wrong size.
The next day, the right size shoes show up. I'm like, "Oh, that's why I love Zappa." Yes. You know? It's a moment of truth, and- Yeah ... I mean, I can even relate to even my own, um, clients, where we've, we've, uh, we've made a mistake or, or not met their satisfaction. And, um, we've, we've really jumped in and leaned in and, and made it right, and, and through that whole process, um, I think built trust from where it started before that issue happened.[00:37:00]
Yeah. So I mean, any business can, I think, relate to that. Yeah, and that's, like, the piece where some people are just, like, they don't like to talk about the mistakes that they've made, and it's like you're crazy to think- Everybody does ... that not everyone is making mistakes. Yeah. And it's like the best kind of people are like, "Hey, I made a mistake, but I'll look you in the eyes, say I, I- I'm gonna make this right
I me- I messed up, but I'll make it right." Yeah. Like, that is just, like ... And, and people, like, love and respect that so much. Yep. I do wanna talk about a little bit, uh, when it comes to the fourth generation- Sure ... this family business, what does that legacy mean to you, and how has that maybe impacted just, like, the way that you visualize showing up for work every day?
Yeah. It's huge. I mean, it's a incredible privilege. Um, you know, I, I understand a bit of nepotism that's involved, for sure, in, in why I've got the job, but I don't think my dad would hand me the reins or, or be handing me the reins if I wasn't up for it. But, um, you know, I think a huge sense of, uh, of, uh, of, of duty, um, and stewardship that to, to carry it forward.
Yeah. And, um, uh, not [00:38:00] just for, you know, my family's name and, and, but, but you think about all the employees that, that, um, you know, rely on it for their families. And even some of, you know, our customers and, and, and our impact on their customers or, or on their families. Um, so it's, it's huge. And, you know, it's something I wanna carry forward where I, I could take this thing 100 years plus.
We're at 87 now, and, and, uh- Yeah ... you know, grow it, and if we're growing, that means we're providing more value to our customers, and so, um, uh, it, it drives a huge part of me. So- Yeah. Do you have advice for other listeners that might be in family-owned? Yeah. Even if they're, may- they might be first generation that thinking about turning their business over to a second generation- Uh-huh
how that ... I mean, obviously, there is a level of nepotism- Yeah ... you know, like somewhere in there that people know that you are the, you know- Yeah ... your last name is on, on the door, right? Yeah, yeah. But how can leaders be thinking about Uh, getting their children involved. What are some stories from your involvement- Yeah
with the company that have just really set you up for success? Yeah. Well, I think it's for the right reason. I mean, s- I think, [00:39:00] when I think about it, so much of what drives me is to, to, to, to be successful in leading this company that, uh, I can one day say, "It wasn't just because my last name's Walker that, that I got this job."
And, and- Yeah ... so that's a huge drive for me. Um, and so I think, you know, s- things that my parents and, uh, grandparents did well to, to set up what now is, you know, hopefully successfully transitioning to a fourth generation is, um, just, just how we were raised. And- Yeah ... and, uh, you know, there was a rule, we, we had to go work somewhere else before working at the family business.
See, I like that. Yeah. I think that going out- Which I think is an incredible thing to do ... yeah, getting some, some industry experience somewhere else. Like, whether you like it or not, like, if you walk in and people know that you are the owner's son, like, they're gonna treat you a little bit differently.
Yeah. At least if you go out somewhere else, they're gonna treat you like normal, you get that experience, and then you bring back whatever learnings are, there are to the family business. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So I, I started my career at Angie's List. Oh. Uh, 2010 to 2013. What, what were you doing there? Uh, I started in the call c- [00:40:00] center as a, a c- a service rep, and then- Do you know, uh, do you know Ed?
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Ed's upstairs. Ed Sherman, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ed, Ed's, uh, he's with Neighbor Serve now. Yeah. They're upstairs. Ed's a great guy. They're awesome. And, and, uh- The alumni network is fantastic. Yeah. Um, so- My, uh- ... I mean, I, I hit Angie's List at the right time. That was during their high growth period. Yeah.
Saw them go from private to public. Got s- because of their rapid growth, got... And I did a good job, I got so much experience as a 20, what, 2 to 25-year-old. Um, I was, I was managing, uh, half the call center by the time I, I left. Uh, e- I mean, just, I... It was the right place, right time. Yeah. And obviously I delivered on some of that.
But, um, it was incredibly foundational for me in terms of, you know, hey, I c- I, I, I do a good job, and I, I think for how I carry forward- Yeah ... uh, for today, so. Yeah. That's, I mean, talk about between Exact Target and Angie's List- Yeah ... like, being in the heydays, like the early to mid to late 2000s- Oh, yeah
that was a, a fun time. Yeah. Um, I know where, we have Ed, and then I know Mike Rutz- Yep ... and just, like, the whole crew there. Angie was [00:41:00] actually, when, the first iteration of the show, she had called in and did an episode with, uh, two of the previous hosts too. And- Okay ... one incredible story. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, Angie is just a, a, a rock star, and a, a proud DePauw alumni.
Yeah, yeah. Let's go. That is, uh, I, I love that when you're thinking about, you know, the fourth generation family-owned business. A lot of times you think about- You know, the first generation, like, builds it, and then the second generation, like- Yeah ... keeps it alive, and the third generation is where, like, usually- Oh, yeah
things go downhill. I use that as a motivational factor. Yeah. 3% of family businesses make it to where I'm at today, so. How many per- It's my computer password for some sites just to remind myself of what I gotta go do. Yeah, right. And, uh, it fires me up and, um, so. What percent make it to 100 years? I don't know.
Every- we gotta know that number. Yeah. And I do wanna say, we were t- we were kinda talking about, you know, asking your customers. I wanna put one out here. This is, as, as we're getting close to the end of the show, we're about to talk all things Indiana. I wanna say you, if you are a listener, maybe an avid listener, you're, you know, one of our power users, email me, Nate@NateSpangle.
Answer the question, [00:42:00] w- who is a guest you wanna see on the show? Right? Is that how you do a question? You ask, like, something very specific. Is that good research tech- Yeah ... what question should I be asking? I think you could have that open-ended. Yeah. Uh, or you could, uh, maybe prompt with certain categories of guests- Oh
that they might, um, uh, favor more than others, and then that might help. Then you do further research- Yeah ... of okay, who, who fits this category. So, yeah. O- okay, two questions. Question number one, you get to pick A, B, or C. A, do you like athletes, do you like business leaders, or do you like Artists/nonprofit/interesting people.
I'll say those three, right? So we have athletes, we have business leaders, and we have, like, the nonprofit art sector. Pick A, B, or C there, and then your second question is, who's your guest res- recommendation? There we go. Yeah. There's our ... We just did a survey. Yeah. I'll, I'll let you know, and we can visualize the data at a later point.
Sounds good. Come on, dude. I love it. Um, one other piece is you are very active in, in the Indianapolis, Central Indiana community. You [00:43:00] serve on the board, I believe, of Big Brothers and Big Sisters. Mm-hmm. How did you get plugged in with that organization, and tell me about the impact they're making in Central Indiana.
I was a Big or a mentor to a, a, a Little or a, a child under the age of 18 on a couple of occasions, first back at Purdue as a way to, um, to honestly boost my resume, you know, on the community service line of the resume as I was going through undergrad, but found just such a connection through that experience that when I moved back to Indiana or Indianapolis after school, I actually just reached out to the CEO at the time and said, "Hey, actually, you know, I'm still interested in maybe being a mentor in the future, but I wanna apply my professional skills in a way outside of my current employer."
Yeah. For people who don't know what Big Brothers, Big Sisters- Yeah ... is, can you give us a- Yeah ... flyover of, of what the org is? Yeah. It's a mentorship organization, so it's, a lot of it is one-on-one mentorship. So, uh, a volunteer such as myself in the past has volunteered to give, give their time and be paired with a, a specific Little after a, an intense [00:44:00] matching process- Yeah
and to, uh, form a connection and, uh, build over at least a year, um, a relationship with this individual where you're just another supporter, uh, in their life, um, and, uh, and, and helping them reach their full potential in life. So, um, I've found through my experience that, uh, what, why I think it's been giving to the, the Littles that I've mentored, uh, as a Big, uh, I've gotten just as much out of it myself, uh, from a growth standpoint.
Oh. So it's a amazing way to make a really intense impact on a, a single person's life as opposed to other volunteer opportunities being, you know, a group or, or you maybe just see that individual just once, um, in terms of that transaction. And I think it's important to remember that a lot of the, the youth that are going through this program- Yep
like, stable role model individuals might not be, uh, super prevalent in their lives. Yeah. A lot of them, you know, might have single parents that are working. Yeah. And so, like, you get to come in and, you know, take them on, you know, you do, like, outings, right? Yeah. [00:45:00] That's like- All these, all these kids, they have supporters in their life, but it, either themselves or, or one of their loved ones has raised their hand and say, "Hey, they..."
You know, it would be awesome to have even one more to help, help, uh, reach this, help this kid reach their full potential. And if I think about right now, I feel like there's always a huge wait list- Yeah ... for children. 1,000 kids are waiting who have ra- raised their hand who want a Big. And, uh, it's the biggest need in our, our, our organization.
It, it, you know, it's, it's somewhat of a, a good problem to have is, is, feels a little poor to per se, but, like, it shows the demand for I think the model that, that really Big Brothers Big Sisters works. Yeah. And it's a high impact, and obviously there's incredible demand for it, and, uh, we need more volunteers.
I think the time commitment's like you go on an outing a month or something like that. Uh, yeah, yeah. Like min- A couple hours a month. Yeah ... like minimum. Yeah. But it's like obviously you wanna take an, an, y- an active role- Yeah ... and you're getting matched with a little. You go out, you could go bowling or, you know, go get ice cream or- Go to the grocery store.
It, it's amazing ... yeah. Like I, I thought it'd be super lame to bring my, [00:46:00] uh, um, my little along to just doing a grocery run, but just the time they, they, they cherish spending with me- Yeah ... which I, I just took for granted and just, I was just amazed by just even the simple things of what makes such a big difference for them.
Well, and if you think about taking that time too to, like, I mean, when you're a kid, you don't know, like, grocery foods. Yeah. You're like, "Oh yeah, let's get Cheez-Its and Cheez Whiz and- Yeah ... ice cream." And it's like- Yeah ... oh yeah, like I tend to shop through this section of the store, and- Yeah ... you know, you can use it, it doesn't all have to be like a learning lesson.
No. But, like, you can make a huge impact. Well, a good example is, like, uh, my, my w- my wife and I were a Big couple for our, our most recent, uh, Little, and, um, when we did grocery shopping, like I, I always never wanna do, like, the self-checkout 'cause I wanna just, like, go through fast, and she, you know, was patient and let our Little, like, do kind of the scan each, each item and- Yeah
and then ultimately pay through the screen. And I, I, I, I mean, I think that was ultimately a, a cool experience that maybe his parent or I wouldn't have, um- Yeah ... done that I give big credit to my wife for, for doing- Heck yeah ... so. I love [00:47:00] that. And I think that, yeah, making an impact on- So simple ... yeah, the, the youth of central Indiana, super, super important.
Yeah. Big Brothers Big Sisters, great organization. Definitely go check that out. 1,000 kids are waiting for a mentor. Yeah. That's incredible. I mean, not incredible. Yeah. But there's an incredible need there. And I promise it'll change your life and impact your life just as much as the kid. Yes. I- From personal experience
I, the list goes on. I feel like I've had five different people that have said that is one of the most impactful things that they spend their time on. Yeah. So incredible. We've come towards the end of the show where we get to talk all things Indiana. This question is brought to you by our friends[00:48:00]
That's J.C. Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out. Homeisjchart.com. My question for you, Jack, why do you call Indiana home? It's what raised me. I've always lived in the state, even, uh, you know, with two, two college stops.
Um, it, it, I think it, it's a huge part beyond just the people and who live in Indiana and who've affected my life of what I am today. And, uh, just an incredible pride in, in being born and raised in Indiana. You know, so many high school friends, they just wanted to get out of here, and I never felt that way.
I, I feel incredible pride about the values, uh, a great place to raise a family, the community, people first approach that exists here. And, uh, I wanna do all I can to help make sure I, I give back and, and keep, keep, uh, Indiana a great place to, to live for the next generation. I love that, man. So true. And it's so cool for you to see something that your great-grandmother started [00:49:00] still rocking and rolling today- 87 years later. That's right. 13 more. That'll get you to triple digits. Much more than 13, but yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Okay.
What was your first job within Walker? Uh, I was a quality assurance analyst, so I would have to ver- it was a, a boring job, but a necessary job. Yeah. So I'd, I'd check reports to make sure that they were reporting the right data back to some inter- a technology system that showed up on the PowerPoint in the correct way.
Nice. Yeah. I, I was hoping it was like, yeah, I got sent out to the mall and I had to like- No I, I wasn't born early enough for that, so. Oh, okay. That's fair. Um, what's been the most obscure data request you guys have gotten? Oh, man. Like, have you ever been asked like, "Hey, we need to [00:50:00] collect..." Yep. Well, I, I, I s- struggle to think of one in my tenure, but I know I've heard my grandfather talk about, uh, long ago, um, again, a consumer g- goods brand where, um, it was a diaper study where they, uh, the people who were participating in the research would send back dirty diapers to our company, and we would have to, you know, analyze something about the diaper for part of the research study.
So talk about disgusting, and I'm glad we don't do that today. Yeah, right. It's like... But it's, you think about the data- Yeah ... from things like, you have to, yeah, do a study to learn about- Yeah ... new diaper technology. Gotta make sure diapers are working, yeah. New anti-slip shower technology. Yeah. You gotta, like, figure out what people are...
It's crazy. Yeah. Wow. What is the most mind-blowing way that you feel like companies are, uh, collecting data on us today? Like, is there one thing where you, like, realize that that is a data collection system and it just blew your mind? Well, I, I think it's super scary to [00:51:00] know our phones are listening to us.
They are, 100%. I mean, we accept it. It, it, we get personalization out of it, um, but it's still crazy. Yeah. And like that was a- You know, geolocation targeting ads, like, you know, serving you an ad because you're in this specific geolocation, that, that's crazy, but, you know, it's also a benefit too. Dude, I like
It, it's wild. I think it started as a joke, like in, you know, a decade ago. Like, "Oh, yeah, our phones are listening to you." And it's like, no, they are 100% listening. Yeah. And then, like, it makes your ad feed a little bit better recommended. Yeah. But it's like when you say something, like you say Zillow, like we're gonna say Zillow 10 times and, and all of a sudden like an ad to buy a million dollar mansion is gonna come up on- Instagram, and I'll be like, "Dang." "They got me." That's wild. I also saw one, um, location, you talk about like geo. There's like, you can set it to like highways. So let's say you're like cruising down I-65- Mm-hmm ... and you come across Lafayette, like Lafayette, a restaurant- Yeah ... could be marketing to your passenger who's like swiping on TikTok or- Yep
swiping on Instagram- Yeah ... saying like, "Pull over and [00:52:00] get Cane's Chicken." Yep. That's nuts to me. Yeah. I'll, I'll give an example back to where I think our work's going. So, you know, so much of like a, a s- solicited survey experience is it starts with the boring question of overall how would you rate your experience or, you know, how likely are you to recommend us?
I, I think there's potential where, uh, we, we don't view surveys as a measurement tool, but actually, uh, an, a customer experience tool. So, uh, we don't serve the same customer for what we throw in, in front of a customer's face the same question and the same boring question. We start with a specific customized question relevant based on the behavioral operational data we have on them, the exact right question for them at that exact right time that ultimately benefits them and the, company.
collecting the feedback. Okay. So it doesn't even feel like a survey, 'cause it's just like because of this customer intelligence we're helping companies, you know, ultimately unify and then s- use to act and serve up, that it just becomes so personalized you don't even know it. Yeah. I think that's a great
Like, how do [00:53:00] you make it more interesting and more almost gamified? Engaging. Conversational. Like, people like on, like, on Instagram polls- Yeah ... people love, like, the this or the that. Like, ev- there was an old school book when I was com- remember Book Fair, like in- Yeah ... in elementary. It's called Coke or Pepsi.
Uh-huh. And it was literally just like 100 questions of this or that. Yeah. Like, people love that. It's like imagine going to a chicken place and, like, the question instead of saying, "How was the service today?" It's like, "Do you like buffalo or barbecue more?" Mm-hmm. Or, "Do you like ..." You know, like, and it helps you formulate what kind of sauces you wanna put out for Cane's chicken.
There you go. Billion-dollar idea. You're welcome. What's the most useful piece of advice you've gotten from your family in regards to the family business? So much for me is just, um, watching, watching those before me lead by example, which is absolutely my father and my grandfather, but I think about the other bosses and, and people I've looked up to over the course of my career, Angie's List and, and whatnot.
Yeah. Like, uh, pulling bits and pieces of how, um, each of them have carried themselves, doing it the right way, ethical, caring and [00:54:00] empathetic to, to, to customers or employees. Yeah. Like, I think those are just the collection of, of various ways, things that I've observed Uh, more so than just a single conversation that I think shapes- Yeah
the leader I try to be today, um, pulling from all those, those people before me. Okay. This is the final question, uh, that we're gonna talk about and then we have our, our final three questions- Yeah ... so they're all about Indiana. This question is gonna be a long shot, but I'm gonna see if I can put this thing ha- all together.
So as you think about your great-grandmother- Uh-huh ... your grandfather, and your dad- Yep ... if you were to think about each of those people, what are a few traits that they each embodied that you see today and that you just respect to the absolute, um, to the maximum- Yeah ... that you try to embody? Yeah. So I, I think being transparent and approachable.
So I mean, we're a small company. We have 120 employees. Um, and, and generally it's been the case over the course of the history. So I think, um, uh, you know, it's a little bit harder today to, to, to interact since so much of us are [00:55:00] working from home. But like any chance I can get to interact and make sure I'm approachable, uh, transparent about how the business is performing- Yeah
what's going well, what's not going well, I really try to- Was that mostly from your grandpa or your dad or your great-grandma? Uh, COVID. Oh, okay. Uh, changed that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fair. So, um, so, so that, uh, you know, I think, uh, doing it the right way, um, you know, not cutting corners, being ethical no matter what.
Real sense of community. Yeah. Like, um, we- really civic, uh, aspect to our culture. Huge, um, pound for pound United Way supporters. Yeah. Uh, started with my grandma when it was called Community Chest and what carries through today, um, we have, you know, 95 plus participation from employees on our annual campaign.
And, and so many of our, um, associates, uh, uh, give up their time in the community, too. So I think it's a huge aspect of our employer brand that, um, that we give back to that I think there's just a, you know, you get what you put into. And- Yeah ... and like the good intentions behind that I think creates good, uh, juju for, you know- Yeah
us as a business. So we, we do a lot of focus on that. I love that. [00:56:00] And we're looking the other way now. Yeah. When your great-grandson- Mm-hmm ... comes back, or granddaughter, whoever it is, comes back and listens to this episode- What do you hope they learn from you and those that came before you about the Walker business?
Yeah. That no matter how the world and technology changes, we've always just been helping companies understand their customers better and use that insight to create a better customer experience. And you can say that's been true for 87 years. It just looks a little different for how we do it. So I think there's just a, a real aspect of our culture, our core competency of, of being able to trailblaze and evolve that I think will ca- carry forward now and into the future in what's happened before me.
We're gonna have to set like a digital time capsule so that y- your great-grandchild can see that down the road one day- Yeah ... and get resurfaced of like- Yeah ... keep the customer at the center. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is in the... This'll be in the internet, um- Yeah ... world here soon, and, and then AI can serve it up to them.
So. Yeah, when they ask, [00:57:00] like, I n- I need advice. Like, help me fi- Like, oh, we found this clip from- Uh-huh ... 2026. Yeah. Like, let's look into it. Great. I love it. Uh, we've come to the final part of the show where we ask the same three questions to every guest that comes on. So you guys are working with, you know, Fortune 1000 companies all across the country, um, all across the world.
Yeah. You know, you're collecting data and information. If you could scream it from the rooftops, what's one thing the world needs to know about Indiana? You know, all the interactions I have outside the state of Indiana with customers or, or whatnot, it, you know, Indy 500 is such a, uh, easy thing to, to come back to in terms of what a lot of people know us by.
But I would go broader than that, like, especially for, like, making the pitch for why somebody might wanna come live in Indiana among a myriad of reasons. Mm-hmm. The month of May, like, even beyond just the race, but, like, you think about, like, planning for a trip, a vacation, like, so much of the fun is, like, the lead up to it So the way the city transforms on May 1st where all the checkered flags go in everybody's yard, the wing and wheel goes on everybody's flagpole, the welcome race fans show up on people's fences, um, [00:58:00] all the way through the Grand Prix.
We have two weeks of practice that people show up in masses to. It's just, I think it's just awesome. It's the favorite, my favorite month of the mer- of the year in terms of how the city all rallies behind just this- Yeah ... cultural event that you really feel a part of from the May 1st. One of the sneaky best days is bump day.
Yeah. If they have over 33 drivers- Yeah ... so, like, if they're, when they're cutting the field, I mean, I think back in the day it used to be, like, they were cutting a lot of drivers down to 33. Yeah. The past few years it's been, like, 34 or 35 cutting down to 33. Yeah. It is an incredible day. Yeah. 'Cause there was, like, rules and, like, you're, you have to decide if you wanna go back out to post a better time, and if you do, then it erases your previous ti- It's, like, a crazy strategy that goes into it.
Yeah. And I love it. Yeah. Well, as a sports fan, and any sports fan would love the Indy 500, but I think, you know, even the cul- it's really the cultural element of, of a p- key piece of what makes us culturally unique. Yeah. That I think if you're someone who's naturally interested in, in culture, that you'd find, um, the way the, the city comes together in [00:59:00] the month of May is, is, would be compelling and interesting and, and something maybe you'd like to be a part of.
Amen. Okay, this is your opportunity to shed some light on part of the state that more people need to know about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? The IMS Museum rebr- uh, uh, re- renovation is fantastic. Yeah. That's not quite a, a hidden gem, but I'll just give a quick plug to that. I really enjoyed that. Um, this is up towards the area I think you're from, so I don't know if you may know this, but I grew up going to Lake Wawasee in the summer.
Yeah. And so there's a place called the Sleepy Owl Supper Club- Oh ... which is a restaurant in Syracuse, Indiana And it's just like, I think, the quintessential, like, Indiana restaurant. You get a pork tenderloin there. You can get a steak, fried chicken. Uh, but it's, it's a fun gathering place that has just a cool down-home vibe, um, with good food.
And, uh, you know, summers at a lake in Indiana is something I think that a lot of people could relate to happy times and memories for. Wow, The Sleepy Owl Supper Club. Yeah. I love that. That's fire. Does that count as a [01:00:00] hidden gem? That is, like, the ultimate hidden gem. All right, good. I love that. You know, maybe go get dinner at the, uh, the Sleepy Owl, and then...
I actually spent most of my time in Syracuse more at The Frog. The Frog, yeah. So, like- Yeah ... uh, you can get a little two-for-one combo there. There you go. Sleepy Owl Supper Club, that's a great one, and I love it when we get a new one that no one's ever said. Like, no one's ever said that one. That is a true hidden gem.
Cool. Finally, this is where we source new guest recommendations and learn about other amazing Hoosiers. Who's a Hoosier we need to keep on our radar, someone who's doing big things? Yeah. So I'll go back to a earlier part of our conversation around Big Brothers Big Sisters of Central Indiana, and the CEO is Darcy Palmer Schultz.
Um, I've had the privilege of knowing her for 20, 20-plus years now. She is an absolute rock star. Um, she has built quietly one of the most model agencies in the country from a Big Brothers Big Sisters s- standpoint in what Central Indiana is. Tremendous financial position, a really mission-centered strong culture.
Um, so if you're somebody who's, uh, you know, interested in youth development and [01:01:00] mentorship, she'd definitely be a person to know. Amazing. I love that. Jack- And she cares so much about our city, too. Heck yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna have to get her on as a guest. Yeah. That'd be a good one. You have to, yeah. Yeah.
Jack, thank you so much for coming on and sharing the 87-year journey thus far of Walker. It's, uh, it's incredible. I really am coming out of here thinking of how I should be surveying our, our audience better, our customers better, how we can be talking to not only our, you know, the people that are watching our videos but also acting on what they're saying.
Yeah. I think that is the key piece that as you guys, you know, continue to grow, like, what you really honed in on was you can collect all this data- Mm-hmm ... but you gotta be able to visualize it and see it- Mm-hmm ... and then take action on it. Yep. Like, whether you're a small business, whether you're a huge enterprise- Mm-hmm
I think that is the true magic of the work that you guys are doing. Yep. And it's always incredible. 13 more years to go to get to 100, and then you have, you know, the, the next 87 years and get to 187. There you go. Heck yeah, man. Thank you for coming on. If people wanna connect with you, if they wanna learn more about Walker, how can they do that?
Yeah. [01:02:00] Uh, walkerxm.com is our website. Uh, you can try to find Jack Walker on LinkedIn. There's a few of those, but if you type Jack Walker Indianapolis, I'm sure you'll find me, and would love to connect. Heck yeah, man. Thanks for coming on, and we'll talk soon. Thanks so much, Nate.[01:03:00]
What's the most interesting way you see people collecting data today?[01:04:00]
Don't just buy this. You helped us bring this to life. Yeah. Like, how much... When you have a little skin in the game, like, "Oh, the business really listened to me-" Yeah ... "and now they interacted and, and created what I told them to make." Yeah. I'm definitely opening up my wallet
