We have to think differently. We have to disrupt ourselves literally every day now or we evaporate. When you're self taught and you're just like, "No, like even if they say no, I'm going to figure out a way to make it happen." Drive the imperfections out of your business. Drive the imperfections out of your business. What Indiana companies do you see making the biggest waves nationally?
From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. All right, folks. Mother's Day is around the corner and I'm going to help you get prepared. Ditch the Amazon or Target candle and get mom something from Warm Glow Candle Company. They're based out in Centerville, Indiana, and they make some of the best candles I have ever smelled.
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Today, I'm joined by Toe Day, CEO of Elevate Ventures, the number one most active seed and early stage investor in the Great Lakes region. Now, for those of you watching at home, you might notice that we are not in Kansas anymore. Toto, we are coming at you live from the set of Innovate or Evaporate, Elevate Ventures, a new podcast hosted by the man himself, Toe Day. They've had some amazing guests so far like A-Rod and Governor Eric Hulcom. And we're going to get into all things podcasting later in the episode. TOEFL is also the chief visionary for Rally, the largest global cross- sector innovation conference, which is going into its third year being hosted right here in Indianapolis.
Tova spent 30 years co-founding eight businesses across seven sectors with multiple successful exits to Fortune 500 companies. Recognized as an IBJ 40 under 40 and one of the top 250 most influential leaders, his career is a testament to the power of Indiana roots, relentless innovation and community building. Today we're going to cover innovation in Indiana, where we are winning and where we need to improve, how to helping inspire the next generation of innovators and creatives, and just entrepreneurship across the state of Indiana. Toe, welcome back to Get In. Thanks, Nate. I feel like I have to catch my breath after that intro.
That was pretty amazing. Dude, I think in another life I might have had a rap career, you know, just like hitting some bars right there. Uh, well, I mean, you're just such a I mean, you got to talk about There it is. Everyone, the early listeners from day one will remember that toe is a beatboxing king on the microphone. Uh, but you've done so much and and there's plenty to talk about. I think we have a few episodes back where we've kind of highlighted some of that stuff.
But right now, right, it's early 2025 and we're going to talk about all the fun new things happening at uh at Elevate and we're going to get into by starting to talk about uh innovation across Indiana. Right. So, I think the quote from you is innovation is no longer optional. It's essential. Um, and I think innovation used to be thought of as, you know, giant Fortune 500 companies have an innovation wing or an innovation department and it's like something that only the big guys, big companies are thinking about. How are you seeing that change and that mindset shift to go further up market to these smaller startups and how they're thinking of innovation?
Yeah, and honestly, I think I think historically like corporations actually have a hard time innovating because they get so big it becomes so bureaucratic, so much red tape. They they have a really hard time innovating. That's why they acquire, right? Strategic acquires. When I think about innovation and like innovate or evaporate, the new podcast, we'll talk about that later. But um if you're not innovating, it's actually fatal.
Uh and and we have heard about AI for how many years? Five plus seven plus years roughly. And for for many years, nothing really happened. In fact, we use the term AI and we we really meant BI. In fact, today we still mean BI in a lot of situations. Business intelligence, nothing.
And business intelligence is not bad. It can be very good and very very powerful. But there has been a I just got chills. There has been a quantifiable shift in the last I'm going to say roughly 12 months. Um where AI is no longer a buzzword. It is real and it is disrupting businesses faster than ever.
We've already seen a multi-billion dollar company go to zero because of AI. And I think we're going to see in which in which sense? In education in CHEG. Oh je. So students used to use this uh for all kinds of things with their projects and when chat GBT came out they moved they shifted even though chat GBT in the in the very first days might provide some incorrect or errant information it was still much easier and it's free at that point in time was much easier to use. So, like this is real.
This idea that multi-billion dollar companies might go under overnight, this is not fantasy. This is real. And if we thought as entrepreneurs it was hard to innovate or start a company, uh, historically, raise money, etc. , we've seen nothing yet. The the the speed, the difficulty of all the things we have always done as entrepreneurs just increased by 10 and I think maybe even a 100x. Dude, that's crazy.
I actually just got reached out by an AI broker. So, they don't have enough video data to train their models. So, they want like let's say if we shoot a 90 second reel, you know how there's probably like 30 to 40 minutes of footage, right? They want to buy all that like from creators like they want to buy it and train their models and they'll pay like they'll pay creators to post their like their raw footage so they can say like hat is black and vest is red and all these things. And I'm like, one, okay, some passive income, not bad, like selling this much, but also like, do I want to be the face of this AI model, like if it starts to grow. So, it's just it's interesting things like that.
Like, that business didn't exist two years ago. Yeah. Things we haven't even imagined, right, that we can't even imagine that will just pop up and morph into various things. In fact, I was just down at a conference in Florida and I was talking to Ilia Recctor and uh, you know, when we would have our first headless, we're talking about our first solo uh, unicorn. When's our first headless unicorn? Oh, like Okay.
So, by that for anyone that's not in the VC space, right? Solo like one person uh grows a unicorn company billion dollar valuation head. You're saying not a single human being. Maybe not too far away. It's like who who who gets the credit? Who gets the money?
Where does the money go? Is it purely free? That's how do you upgrade? I don't know. But I think it's going to happen. That's terrifying.
Yep. I mean, it would be cool if there was like a nonprofit that was like doing good thing for the world and that got to a billion, but like the idea of a headless unicorn is crazy. Okay, so we're talking through innovation. That's the lens and like AI is a really easy way I think to lead to innovation, but there are other ways that people are innovating that that's not just including AI. What are some ways and some companies that you see particularly around Indiana that are doing a really good job of innovating in their space? This I believe is the most critical thing that every company must do right now.
But that is drive the imperfections out of your business. Drive the imperfections out of your business. What does that mean? How do you do it? It requires two things. You have to get control of your data, of your granular data.
That's number one. And number two, you have to marry that with a finance person who understands finance. And that will impact every single department in your in your company. and how what your journey your path to growth most effective path to growth is. Um so I know an HVAC company for example and they adopted this concept of drive the imperfections out of my business uh about I don't probably eightish five six seven eight years ago and they married that with finance and they attribute that single motion to being the biggest decision they made going from roughly 40 million to crushing through 500 million with clear visibility of a billion. Now what they can do with that data is they can inform example their customer who doesn't have the granular data.
They can inform them more they have issues with a critical path of that development of the project. So their value just went way above an HVAC contractor. So I I I love to use that example because it just goes to show that uh some people would look at HVAC and say that's that's the trades business and there's not not a lot you can do with data or AI etc. Not true. And so every company's in the data business whether they know it or not. And if they don't think they are and they're not embracing it, then they're out of business.
Well, that's like IoT, right? Let's say you have um commercial HVAC units, right? And you know that a fan that spins in there and you know that based on data that you're tracking that after 1 billion revolutions, things break down. Yep. So you can then forecast that into your finance, right? And say like, okay, well, we're at 500 million re revolutions on this fan now.
We're halfway through the life cycle, rough estimated life cycle of it. Yeah, that's really interesting. So, so that whole data finance, the intersection of that, driving imperfections out of your business, McKenzie says 25% of the companies out there are ready for this. They have a control of their data. I can't remember the name of the other company did a study and they said it was 2%. I think McKenzie is not correct.
It's not 25%. It's more like 2% or 5%. And I'm talking big, well-established companies out there, they're not ready for this. They all say they are, right? the big Fortune 500 companies, they'll say all these things that they're doing. They use fancy words.
They're not really ready. Well, I think that the best advice that I saw about like innovation and just optimization, removing what you call removing imperfections. Imperfections, right? Is if you don't cut enough to where you have to put something back, you haven't cut enough. That's right. Right.
So, it's like whatever the process is, take 10 if if you're, you know, oh, we'll take like two, we'll take like three steps out of it. take 10 steps out of it until it breaks and then you're like, "Ah, I got to put one thing back." And then build it back at a time. That's how you really get to like the the least friction on that path, right? Yeah. And I I think really the the best way to disrupt yourself is in essence to stand up a a separate SWAT team that basically rebuilds your product using modern technology.
Now, that's a I know that's a pretty crazy statement because some companies are so large, right? And they have billions invested into their products and some are smaller like a startup. I see a scallop is doing one or two million, but but if you've built your your company and your product, let's just say we're talking about pure play software. If you're doing two, three, four million dollars uh as a a startup and you've built and your product is still running the way you built it 5 years ago, the old school way, you have to shift right now. You have to disrupt that whole team and and hire one or two people or pick two people from your team or one person to literally try to put yourself out of business with a new product. That's what I would do right now if I was the founder of a software company.
That's super strong. Rebuild it from scratch. And thinking about Yeah. before someone else comes along that's an AI that might not play in your space, right? It's like, oh, they just know AI really well. They're going to come and put you out of business, you know, like with a headless AI.
With a headless AI. You know what also is crazy to think about is I used to talk with this with the chief scientist I used to work with uh back one of my previous companies, Tyler Foxworthy, brilliant guy. Yeah. And we Yeah. He's super sharp. And we were just talking about this concept of 03 that's coming out.
The word decisioning, the word reasoning. So if you want to solve a really novel complex like new like problem in a new and and differentiated way. You don't just pull algorithms off of a shelf. This is what used to happen. Remember those companies that all they all stood up and they had these algorithms data scientists in a box concept? This is about five years agoish.
And we're like that's never going to work because the people who are using it don't know how what problems those are really solving. So, it's kind of like junk in, junk out, garbage in, garbage out. And we kind of laughed at those companies that started and they're all gone now. The reason is when you're trying to solve complex problems, you have to use multiple different types of algorithms, pieces and parts from one thing from another, apply to that problem, run the cycle. Oh, that didn't work. I got to get rid of this piece and we'll replace it with that piece.
It's a whole process of decision reasoning that takes a mathematician or chief scientist to understand that. And then, of course, that's going to be married with machine learning engineers. Here's the scary part or the fun part is 03 for example now can reason and so I'm talking about building math. So now this becomes real AI where you're able to take a task or you're trying to solve a problem and you can plug into 03 as one example. There's others that are cropping up out there and this is just the very beginning. So you think about this isn't three years or 5 years away.
This is like 90 days away where it's going to be exponentially better. And so you can feed it these problems. It's going to reason and make decisioning like a decisioning tree on what algorithms, what pieces of algorithms to use to solve these new problems to try to accomplish, you know, some new solution. It's really exciting. That is exciting and terrifying, right? Um, so, okay, as you're going through there, you're talking about hiring a chief mathematician, hiring a chief data scientist, which for tech companies, that makes a ton of sense, right?
You should have someone that's running this for you. What are organizations that you see that are like not your traditional software companies that are investing in innovation, data science, AI, like these non-traditional, nonAI model companies investing in that. There's a young entrepreneur who's his early 20s. Will Power is his company name and his name is Will Schuler. Yes. Great young guy.
He is he is I won't share his revenue because I'm not sure if I'm allowed to, but he is doing real revenue. I'm I'm talking how many figures of that? He's into eight figures, right? and and he is growing like a wildfire and he is embracing data. Now I'm I'm not sure if he's ingesting AI yet into his company, but that's an earth moving earthwork company, right? Excavation.
He's coming on next week. So yeah, excavation company. And he uh does I think underground pipe work and some stuff of that nature. And he has thought about this from day one in his company at least at a data level, right? The HVAC company I just mentioned. And I just somebody else just crossed my mind and and they they they uh it's escaped me.
But we're seeing this applied in any industry. So when you think about launching a podcast, right? All about innovation. Yep. And what was kind of the driving factor behind you all and and the podcast and bringing this back and bringing this to life. So it's the concept of um and it kind of ties a little bit into rally, but the concept is it goes back to a concept of the productivity boom, which is a big part of my thesis for many things.
Uh but but global economists talk about a concept called a productivity boom. And if you boil it all down, it's basically about the disruption of data and technology with all sectors faster than ever. And so maybe it's because I had eight companies in seven verticals. And so so I've I've been in different industries. I've started companies in different industries that sometimes I knew nothing about. And I went and hired the experts around me who were smarter than me to go attack solving something in a novel new way.
And I have always learned more from people who had businesses that weren't in my sector or from people I call this disperate stakeholders. So the first part is cross- sector and the second part is desperate stakeholders or from people who don't do what I do. And so they might be an educator, they might be a policy maker, they might be a philanthropist, they might be uh a sales leader, a product leader at some random company. I always learn from those people and like, oh, I could plug that into my business in this different way or I could plug this into my personal life in this way. And so that's why we started innovate or evaporate is to sector lines are blurring. Those barriers are breaking down.
And so you're no longer just starting a software company or a hardware company or a healthcare company. It's two, three, four, five sectors or verticals in one business. And so we have to think differently. We have to disrupt ourselves literally every day now or we evaporate. So if we do not innovate, you will evaporate. It is literally fatal.
I mean that that makes sense a ton because I think people talk about tech enabled businesses, right? And that was like a thing five, seven years ago. Yeah, we're a tech- enabled benefits company or whatever it is, but it's like name me a business now that's not tech enabled that doesn't use some sort of tech. That's right. and and then now AI agents, right, to just to automate various tasks. You know, it starts with customer success.
There's going to be a lot of customer success things are automated or the sales the go to market, the sales motion or marketing motion. There's going to be all these AI agents that we that we inject into our everyday tasks to make us much more efficient. I'm I'm not afraid of AI putting people out of work necessarily. What will put people out of work is not embracing AI. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like I mean probably like the computer in whenever the computer was launched, you know, right?
It's like if you don't embrace technology and learn keyboard typing, right? That kind of thing, you're going to be looking for accountants used to use a a paper ledger, right? A pencil and an eraser, a paper ledger. Well, they don't use that anymore, right? What do they use? Quickbooks or or whatever system, you know, the Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets or whatever they're using.
Um we still have accountants. Yeah, that's true. And I'm I'm sure at the time too people were like, "Oh, we're never going to quit using the paper ledger." I remember my early part of my career, I went into the construction development industry and I remember when this thing called CAD came about. And I'm not kidding. I was I entered the industry right when that was coming out and there were problems with it.
And we were building hospitals and and stadiums and airports and stuff, right? And this thing called CAD had just come out and people behind the computer would just click click click. And from an architectural engineering standpoint, if it connected some dots, they're like, "Yep, it's good. It's that's the drawing, right? Go build it." There are massive problems with that.
And and the old school detailers, right, that would hand draw like connection points of steel and what's the the moment calculation to make sure a building wouldn't fall down. Um, these things were done by hand, right, by these brilliant engineers. And and they rejected this idea that that CAD could automate some of this stuff, even some of the architects. Well, what happened, right? And it happened many people at the drafting desk doing that anymore, right? Yeah.
That shift happened in less than five years. And if that happened less than 5 years back then and with all the sophistication we have now, every new thing isn't going to be 5 years. It's going to be 5 months or 5 days. Yeah. I'm trying to think back 5 years ago like what is something that we've seen in these recent shifts innovations that we've seen over the last 5 10 years that like you know the easy ones are like the cell phone and email and but like Google off uh when you sign into stuff like you don't even have to have a password anymore you just like one click and it's like when I'm buying stuff now all of a sudden I don't know they've connected it to something because I don't even know what it's connected to but my stuff comes up automatically and I say pay. It's never been easier to spend money right it's so dude it's like it's like a vacuum sucking slot out of your back pocket.
Absolutely. Okay. So, when you think about innovator or evaporate, like what are the stories that you want to tell on there? And who is the listener? Who who should go check out that show? People that should check out Innovate or Evaporate are people that want to accelerate in their personal life or in their career and are curious.
I I love the word curious. Um if we are not curious with the speed of change today, then we're going to fall behind quickly. And so innovator evaporate, we're bringing on people from all walks of life who are doing really interesting things and have a different viewpoint or have taken a different approach to to solving various things. Uh so you know you mentioned A-Rod, right? His path um is very interesting and what and what he came through to get there and how he thinks about disrupting himself. Um you know Governor Hulk was on you know what his first job was?
No. Not out of college after he served in the Navy for six years. So, Governor Hulk was in college handover and then he was in the Navy for six years. He moved back to Indiana. His first job was he was a driver and so you know how he thinks how he innovated himself right over the course of of his career. A driver for for a congressman.
Oh, so he started a he was a driver. Wow. We all read headlines and we see in those headlines some success story and we think life's not fair. Like that person just woke up and had that thing handed to him. No, they didn't. That person cried themselves to the sleep at night.
They, Lord knows what they did. They were curled up in a ball thinking they were a failure. Uh the world was against them. People telling them, "You're an idiot. You're not smart enough. You're not good enough."
Whatever it is. But they kept putting one foot in front of the air in front of the other to persevere. We need to hear those stories as humans because it's there's no one that's going to be more critical of you than you, right? We're all so self-critical. And so if we could just exhale, put our shoulders back, keep our head up, keep our eyes open, and when we hear these stories of other people and how they innovated to get through certain things, those are the stories that can help who knows a ripple effect of of getting through that next fund raise, that next that next customer, that person that said no. It's it's just critical as humans that we connect more.
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How long have you thought about innovation in in this sense like you are now? I probably started to think of it back in the 2010ish time frame about about 15 years ago. 15 years of thinking through innovation. What I find find interesting like let's take business out of it, right? You need to innovate within your business. But as you have all these stories and these conversations and you talk about innovation within your life.
Yep. What are some things over the last 15 years that you've put into practice that are innovations that have made your life better. Just listening to other stories. You can't please everybody. You're going to have naysayers no matter who you are. And I don't know why humans can be so critical and so mean.
It's just so unnecessary. It takes so much energy to be negative. How many people are mean to you to your face? Like directly to your face. that come up and say very small number. That's the one or two%.
It's never been easier to talk smack about. It's when they talk smack about me behind my back and then someone calls or shares a text with me like and I'm like really? So it's just so unproductive. But yeah, I think in a personal life like you know how I structure my days or things of that nature. What what's something that's like in the last 15 years an innovation you've made within your life that's changed it? So getting up earlier.
Yeah. Right. Starting my day earlier when it's quiet and I can think. Uh game changer. Right. I can get so much done in an hour or two.
Like I can't imagine what your calendar looks like, right? It's like got to be back to back block block. But it's like that that like I started waking up at 4:59 just cuz I wanted to see a four on the clock. And it's like from 5 to like 7:30. Yes. I get a day's worth of work done and I can just think and it's not as crowded and then it's like, no offense, the rest of the world wakes up out there and it blows up my inbox and then the day gets derailed.
You have no idea where it's going to You know, I thought about experimenting with was what would happen if for one week you said, you know, inside the company, etc. , no emails unless there's an attachment as an example. Oh, I I think we we we keep making things. So, I I get I've been getting teased because I I don't use Slack. I refuse to use Slack. Uh to me, it's or even Google chat.
Not using it. Don't want it. And I I get teased and made fun of a little bit that I'm not innovating. You're dying to It's a distraction. That's there. I just It's There's too much There's too much noise.
Remember THX or somebody? I think it was there was a commercial and this dude is sitting on a chair in front of a TV and this sound is just blasting at him and the hair is going straight backwards. That's what I think we're doing to ourselves, right? I mean, like, who needs another social media tool? There's just too much. Okay, I have a tool we need.
This would be fun. What? We need a counter on your home screen how many notifications you got in a day. Yeah. Like if it was like at end of night, 1000 p. m.
at night, if there's a if there's a software engineer out there that wants to build this for us, at the end of the night, you get an alert. It's like, you had one I bet it's 1,000. I bet I get 1,000 push notifications to my phone a day. So, I I want to share I want to share a phrase. I I heard this from Matt Tiner on our team, and I love it. And And the phrase is slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
And I think that we have to take a more conscious effort to remove the noise from our lives because you you look at the mental health crisis that's developed over the last what decade or two. This is all self-inflicted injury. The stuff that we're doing to our kids with social media and giving them access to that stuff before they're 16 years old. I think honestly I think it's a travesty. I don't mean to sound like an old fddy duddy, but like these are some real repercussions. Like you can't drink before you're 21.
But you can get like a dopamine but you can get a dopamine hit at at as a baby. Yeah. Right. And what does that do to the human brain? We've removed cursive writing from schools, right? Anything about that, but yeah, we start teaching kids how to read by memorization.
These are all backwards and wrong. Like the human brain, the human hasn't changed, right? The human construct, the brain. And I think these things are going to be critical if we want to survive in a world of AI. We have to have a strong human foundation with good strong connections in our snacks. That is a perfect segue.
Wow. Incredible. So, we went deep there a little bit, didn't we? I love it. We're We're going to we're keep we're going to dive head first into this. Right.
So, you wrote an article that I saw on the Elevate site that was, have we ever stopped to think what our children hear? So, I'm going to I'm going to read a little story about a study. And by the way, that was published the first was published in the IBJ Indianapolis Business Journal. It was okay. Yes. We got to give we got to give them a shout out.
Give them credit. Feldman, thank you for publishing that. Right. So, in the 1960s, NASA commissioned scientists George Landam and Beth German to develop a test that could effectively measure creative potential with 1,600 students between the ages of four and five to find creative geniuses. The results revealed that 98% of the children were creative geniuses. Right.
Four to five. That's right. Then at 10 years old, the children were tested again and only 30% were considered creative geniuses. They were again tested five years later and only 12% were considered creative geniuses and this same thing's going to happen right by the age of 25%. That's crazy, right? 2% 98% to 2%.
Those kids didn't change. What changed? We educated the genius out of them. Oh, all right. I'm intrigued. Let's What What do you mean by that?
So, in the old days, you you would you would sit in a one room schoolhouse, right? And you would learn reading, writing, arithmetic, and you would sit in the schoolhouse. And there was a lot less population. And we probably ate, well, we would not probably, we ate healthier foods. We lived a healthier lifestyle. We had physical activity every day.
It was just part of living, right? Physical activity. The foods you ate, they were more organic, they were healthy. Um, and you learned how to read, right, and do arithmetic. Society advances, population grows, things get more complex, etc. , etc.
Innovation happens. We start putting crazy stuff in foods. And that's a whole another subject we probably don't have time for today. The way we educate our children today is not conducive to the environment we live in. So a couple of examples of that are number one with with reading. This is a real issue and we look at third grade literacy and we can trace this back to the 1960s where we used to teach people how to read using phonics.
Hooked on phonics hooked on phonics, right? And you like talk it into your ear and then we changed to a three queuing system that's about memorization. And there you have friends right now, Nate, that you don't know, but they are virtually illiterate. And this is a big self-conscious issue for them. I have friends and I don't know who they are. You have friends and you don't know who they are.
Um, and there there's been folks asked myself, wait, am I am I illiterate? I don't think they are. There have been folks who who have said this that they're living with this today in their 30s, 40s, 50s, and they were taught how to read by memorization techniques. And so when they see a new piece of material, it's very difficult for them to figure out how to read that new piece of material because they didn't learn phonics. Now the interesting thing is math is exactly the opposite. When I grew up, we learned math by memorization techniques, multiplication table.
Yeah. Right. It's like your hands for like multiplying by nine or whatever. Right. So this is why I can't help my son with his math because he's learning the proper way like rules like steps and processes. It's a whole different process, right?
So, we've had these flipped and and now this idea of phonics, learning how to read with phonics is coming roaring back, which needs to get back into our all of our schools ASAP. But the short story is by lining people up, the world doesn't work in a silo anymore. We it's collaborative. It's team effort, right? And and so we still very much teach in silos and rows and and like rules instead of letting the brain go wild with entrepreneurial or innovative thoughts and pursuing these various tracks. There's so many options of things to do out there today besides just, you know, in the old days it was it was hunter gather, right?
And then we got into agriculture, right? And then we got into the industrial revolution and now we then we got into the digital revolution. Now we're in the AI revolution. This is like no other revolution humans have ever experienced, but yet we still teach the same way. Interesting. And I I think through when you talk about this evolution of kids, right, and how they go from like when a 5-year-old talks about this crazy, wild, cool thing, you're like, "Oh my gosh, they're so smart."
But when a 15-year-old talks about a crazy wild thing, you're like, "You need to focus on keeping the main thing the main thing, right?" I actually think there's a song by Harry Chapen real quick. Okay. And and I'm going to mess the word. I used to have this memorized because I love the song so much. But Harry Chapen had a song about a little kid and he used to sing a song that um the teacher was teaching that um about flowers, right?
And and the little kid was like, you know, there's so many colors in the rainbow and I see every one. And the teachers know like, no, green flowers are green, red flowers are red, and there's no reason to see them any other way than the way they always have been seen. And the little kid says, "No, there's so many colors in the rainbow, and I see every one." And and and so like that's the concept. Like if you haven't heard that song, make sure you're alone because you're probably going to tear up a little bit. Wow.
When you listen to it, but it is like the genesis of all of this. Okay. Well, I think one I love that. That's great. I'm going to have to listen. That was a little tangential.
I love it. Well, I'm thinking through of like one of the best advice, best pieces of advice I got from this. I took improv. I was in improv class when I was in high school and like the first day I showed up and like someone came up with an idea or whatever and I was like, "No, what about blank?" And they're like, "No, you can't say that." It's like, "What do you mean?"
Like, "It's not a It wasn't a good idea." Like, "What do you mean?" They're like, "No, it's always got to be yes." And yes. And and so you just like get you learn of like kid says this and it's like, "Yeah, and then you have to add a little bit more extra and get them to where you need to go versus saying like no and shutting off that function of the brain." And that's been a piece where I I guess like being I mean, you're entrepreneurial, right?
It's like when you're self taught and you're just like no, like even if they say no, I'm going to figure out a way to make it happen. And some people are are born and are are taught into that and like have that mindset and other people it takes a little bit longer to develop. But with these kids, right, it's making sure they know like go think creatively and all this fun stuff. 100%. That whole concept of of yes and versus no butt is so powerful. I have seen exercises happen where where people do an exercise that's all no but versus a yes and.
And it is crazy what the the end result becomes of those conversations. I would just ask folks who are just a little more conservative, a little more, and I don't mean that in a political sense, but but people who are a little more reserved, maybe aren't as big of a risk takers, that's totally fine. But to all the naysayers out there, let's just try for how about one week. Let's just try not to nay and degrade, right? Dial it down and and if people want to be more creative, let them be creative and let and see where that goes. Amen.
So what orgs do you see across the state or beyond that are doing a great job of inspiring this next generation to think creatively and and be entrepreneurial? Iris with Rise. Um you got Innovate Within with with Don. So they are really focused on I love where they're focused on K through 12, right? And so there's um Side Hustle. Have you seen Side Hustle School?
I was gonna That's where I was going with that one. There's Side Hustle. Crushing it. It's awesome, right? Uh there's lemonade day. So like let's lean into these things that that help teach our children to be creative and and to just understand some some basic process.
What's one practice that you've put in with your son? You only have one kid? Yes. One child. He's he's junior. What's one practice you've put into place with your son that's helped him be more creative?
Well, I don't know if it's helped him be more creative, but uh but one thing we we did for years, we just recently stopped it now that he's old enough and it's real money, but we used to since he was 5 years old, we would lay out uh 14 $1 bills every two weeks. And we would take a he had to pay the tax man. Uh so he had to pay the tax man $1, you know, every week. Um and then uh he had to put $1 away uh for retirement and then he had to put $1 towards donations for for phil for philanthropy. for people who cannot help themselves and then the rest was you know his spending money and uh so what I wanted him to see is you make money how fast it is for it to disappear it is crazy and everyone's like I don't need to do that but it's like when you actually have the cash and the physical money there like I mean think about how many these kids that grow up and like never have a piggy bank because it's like in their cash app account or whatever right financial financial hygiene is critical at the personal and professional level a company will not exist without financial hygiene.
Why wouldn't that exist in our personal lives as well, dude? Amen to that. All right, so as we as we kind of get into the final segment of the show, I want to talk about entrepreneurship across Indiana, right? So, no one in the Great Lakes region is more active than you all when it comes to venture investing, right? So, what are a few of the most recent transactions or rounds of funding that you guys have participated in that you're the most excited about? There's a company called Adapo that turns brown fat into white fat.
Um, that we're really excited about. That's like wait turns brown fat into white. What is that? It's all about weight loss like a more effective means a more effective way for weight loss. So like and look at me. I I am I'm hoping that this gets approved by the FDA soon.
So similar like a majo or like a ozenic type thing. Yeah. I don't want I'm I'm not a scientist. I don't want to get too too deep into it and and sound like an idiot here on this podcast. But uh but the high level adapo Karen Worester uh great entrepreneur, great CEO. Uh, and I'm really excited about about what she's up to.
Really excited. If you hadn't listened to Dave Ricks on the All-In podcast. Yep. Did you listen to that? I had not. It's crazy the way that they talk about the opportunity.
Yep. Of curing obesity. And all I'm like, sign me up. Take all my money, put it in Lily. Like, they're doing crazy. We need to get to V2 of these GLP1s because they they actually there's some side effects with muscle mass loss.
Well, he's talking on the There's some other things being worked on to to to rectify making it a pill. Like he's like I think he basically said it was going to be a thing and I'm just like you can take a pill and lose like that's nuts. Like as long as you don't lose your muscle mass, that's a that's a that's a real thing. Okay, so this was a stat actually that he said on the show and it was morbidly obese people. So I think it was 95% of morbidly obese I don't he had like the number of what classifies you as morbidly obese cannot lose the weight on their own. So you know about losing muscle mass and these kind it's like it is impossible only 5% of them can just like wake up one day and make a change in their lifestyle and get back down.
And he was like so what are you just like forget about like they they've been trying they have motivation coaches this that and the other thing can't do it. So it's like it's almost when you're at that point like using it as like a jump start to get things going, right? It's like yeah crazy. So I love that one. What else do you have? So Derek Small Monument Biosciences they're working on uh solving dementia a platform around solving dementia.
A lot of healthcare stuff that's we're seeing. So you know historically our our our portfolio was mainly well so we invest in four main sectors and we we think about things and I like I love threes. So we think of things. So we're a cross- sector investor, right? So over 600 investments, over,00 transactions. We've evaluated almost 8,000 companies in 15 years.
Okay, that's data. It's a lot. It's a lot of we have two terabytes of deal data that we have structured now. We're going to use for all kinds of fun things. But uh so sectors we think about it is something that's either soft, it's hard, or it's regulated. So you could also say that that's software, hard tech, life sciences, and product or like CPG.
So that's how we think about things at a high level and that's how our VPs are structured and then after that it breaks down into verticals and then into industries u but attend uh which is you know if someone has a you're at a game and you're up in the nosebleleeds and and somebody's down there low and they leave they can resell the ticket and you can move from the nosebleleeds down to row three. That's so smart. you know, for the the fourth quarter, you're doing that anyway. You just scout it out or like at the last second, what I've done before, but this is the hack, life hack right here, is you look on ticket master of what's unsold and like as the game starts, it's like, oh, it's still unsold. I'm going down to that seat and thinking that one, right? Super smart.
There's another one we haven't invested yet. Maybe I shouldn't talk about her yet because um because we probably are. I'm teasing, but I'm going go ahead and talk about her. Allison Straa, she has a company called Frozen Garden. I have been looking for years for a way to make smoothies. I'm just it's this is an excuse, too busy, whatever.
It's my own fault. But I go buy the groceries and I I get the kale and I get the, you know, whatever. And and then I don't what to do and I I got to find some recipe, blah, blah, blah. Short story is she's been working for eight years on perfecting uh legit fresh vegetable straight out of the garden, frozen on site and right to the freezer and then right to your you ship it right to your home. You open up this little bag. It's like chunks of vegetables and fruits or whatever that she's got like 20 different flavors.
And you you pop that into the blender. You fill it up to a fill line, a little bag. Throw that in there. Blend it for she says 60 seconds. I only do it for 20 or 30 seconds. Um and it is a legit smoothie.
Wow. Frozen garden. I wish I had some here. I give you one. Where's this based at? They're up in northern Indiana.
Oh. All right. We're going to I think it's in like the Valpo area. Okay. We're going to do some some due diligence. It's absolutely amazing.
So, anybody listening to this, go to Frozen Garden. We're not an investor yet, but I just I believe so much in her product. She has these protein bowls for lunches, and I just believe so much in the product because it's legit. No sugar added. It's like legit. Does it taste good?
It tastes great. Okay. And in fact, there's one that she said her best seller, one of the green smoothies, it tastes the worst, which I think I figured out which one that is, which it doesn't taste bad. This is the most healthy, but it's her biggest seller. I think it's because people are like, "Oh my gosh, this is the healthiest one, so I'm going to eat a lot of it." Yeah.
Frozen. They're They're great. They're absolutely great. And they're all natural. Heck yeah. I love that.
She's been working on this for eight years. Yeah. Heck yeah. All right. We're going to we're going to have to keep rolling on that one. What Indiana companies do you see making the biggest waves nationally?
Well, I think all these companies I just mentioned can make waves not only nationally but globally. Uh Adapo Monument Bioscience is for sure. Scale Computing is another one. What are they that I'm really excited about? Edge computing. you so scale's been around for a while and uh with some of the things that have happened with VMware recently um and and with the proliferation of AI like people have to be able to process that data like you know at the point of sale for example um so be able to compute on the edge I'm really excited about uh scale computing we invest in innovationdriven companies right and so by default that means they have a $500 million TAM or greater which by default means eventually they have a global audience and so so uh I I would say all of the all the companies that we invest have the the possibility of having an impact nationally or globally.
Yeah, that makes sense. So, just go look at the portfolio. You're going to see national and global companies there. Two questions left in this segment. Not to mention, by the way, we have a lot of companies globally that are looking to come to the United States and looking at where they're going to set up shop and they come to Indiana. They evaluate many, many different states and they pick Indiana very purposefully because of several reasons.
Who are a few of the companies that you know recently that have moved to Indiana? Well, I don't want to mention any names at the moment, but I will just say they they come here because of it's very easy to navigate the ecosystem. And what I mean by that is introductions to customers or partners or getting that early stage financing. Oh yeah, these are very critical things. Uh so I I'll give you one from California Ed Research. I was literally going to say Val and his team like that's the easiest one.
you go from launching the company in Riverside, bringing it here, and now you're in IMS and you're in and he was a rally winner, I think, was he? Yeah. I Yeah. So, so here's here's what's awesome. So, he comes So, he he wins rally. He comes here to Indiana.
He expands his business in Indiana from California and um and and very quickly gets to meet the sport, gets a first first row seat, introductions into our professional sporting teams, right? And and to the to the track, right, to the Indy500 track. Um, and I I don't think we can mention the company name yet, but there's another massive company in Northern Indiana, and it's in the I'll just say it's in the music space, and a partnership is emerging with these two now for global distribution. And I I don't want to get too much deeper into that. Yeah, that company's definitely not a sponsor of this podcast for sure. So, so uh so anyway, so it's just these things they're very real and and I think in other markets, other markets are wonderful, but they become so dense and so complex and so hard to navigate and so expensive that Indiana has mer emerged as the innovation capital of the world.
I all I want to say is I might have a future in VC. So when this was two rallies ago, first rally I picked 10 interviews. Yep. And I picked Val as one of my interviews to do. He ended up winning and I picked uh Paco Foods. Yes.
Who also ended up winning She's crushing it. Masa. Yeah, Masa. And I'm two out of 10. 20% on the VC check. That's not bad, man.
And for those who may not know, PCO Foods, if you if you have a dog, um she has incredible food for for dogs. It's a vegan dog food that is it's it's amazing. Yeah. Um so, as we talk about people, we're going to give a few more shoutouts, but who are some of the rising star entrepreneurs you see in Indiana? You know, I go back to some of those companies I mentioned earlier, but there's um Combine Curiosity, there's a Connor Love, there's Karen Worester, there's Derek Small, um there's Allison Straa, uh there's Amy Brown. Um I feel like she's been a rising like they're just crushing it authentics, right?
Like she's an a she was a guest, one of the early guests of the pod and she's awesome. She's absolutely crushing it. Like back they were in AI before AI was cool. You know what I love about what she said something once that I thought was that really struck me and that is when she went to build this complex product right and and and bringing in AI etc. She brought in domain experts from the industry of the problem she's trying to solve full-time on the team. I think she has several at least uh that worked very closely handinhand with the engineers as they built the product.
You know, you think about workflow, right? Being injected to the workflow etc. It was very seamless. Yeah, I thought that was really smart. A lot of folks will go out to solve a problem and don't have domain expertise actually inhouse or take that seriously. We tend as humans to solve it the way we think it should be solved.
that might not be the right way. Especially when you come from like a software engineering side. Let's say you're going to innovate. One I always go back to. It's like Parker Technology, right? They're doing parking software.
You bring software. Great. Another great company. Oh, they're they're crushing and they're they're leaning into AI. They just brought on James Payeyton and are doing and there. But it's like you bring a bunch of software people to solve a parking problem.
It's like yeah, they probably know the the most efficient way to do it, but like implementation is different than ideation, right? And it's like if you don't get the people uh to push the button the right way or do things the right way, it's like it doesn't matter if you have the best things. There's a parking garage here in town that you basically cannot get out of. Oh no. And um so anyways, that's a whole another story. But you're exactly right.
Like if you if you put together a technology and then you implement it and then it doesn't execute very well. You don't talk to someone that's in that field, you can have the best solution, but if they don't use it, it doesn't matter. All right. So finally, we're going to wrap out here is um talk about Elevate 3. 0 Rally. just like what's on the outlook for 2025 and beyond.
So to kind of set that up the thesis for all of this back to the productivity boom I talked about earlier the disruption of data and technology cross- sector faster than ever global economists talk about this trend uh they believe that the epicenter of that's going to occur or occur in the middle core of the United States the epicenter of what the epicenter of the productivity boom of the productivity boom is going to occur in the in the middle core of the United States I believe that's 100% correct if you look at the federal tech hub designations that have happened the vast majority of those are in the middle corridor if you look at big tech Like the Magnificent 7 for example, all of the investments and expansion that's being made in the middle corridor. Oh yeah. I mean we got two data centers with another one being announced. We have four of the Magnificent 7 have announced five expansion projects here.
Yeah. Billions and billions and billions. And we we have $126 billion in project announcements in the last 18 years. Excuse me, last eight years. 126 billion last eight years. Four.
The Magnificent 7 have announced five major projects in here in Indiana. There is no question now it's actually official that we are the innovation capital of the world. It's registered trademark. Uh bang. You heard it. So it's it's it's official.
But if you look at the the momentum that we have here in in Indiana, um we have multiple corridors like quantum corridor, defense tech corridor, hard techch corridor. Uh these things are proliferating at a rate we've never seen before. And so we need to make sure the world knows about that and invite them to our home. And so Rally is a global celebration, right, of cross- sector disperate stakeholder innovation. That's what it's all about. And so we've now grown to we've already had 7,000 people come from over a dozen countries from 39 states, five Canadian provinces, 297 VCs, 27.
4 billion in AUM. We've had nearly 800 applications for the $5 million pitch competition that happens. We've had over like 50,000 collisions. Uh in year one it was creative collisions and year two creative convergence. The theme this year is creative curiosity. And we have a big push on AI uh this year for real world takeaway value.
So it it's all about getting people together, getting the interact, get them off the cell phones, right? Back to what we're talking about earlier, right? Get off the social media, meet some people outside of your typical circles and this magic of being in a place where you can experience cross- sector with disperate stakeholders in one place at one time. That's where real magic happens. And is that what led you guys to launching the growth fund? Yes.
So, uh, so thank you for bringing that up. So, uh, so we manage $255 million today. It's an evergreen fund. That's what we manage today and that's grown over time over the last five years. We invest in preede, seed, and series A. So we're multi-stage and then cross- sector as we talked about earlier.
Um now the natural evolution of that is to start investing at at at series B or growth stage. So now these are companies will be 7 to10 million in revenue or up. They're raising a 10 20 $30 million round. So entry point at series B it's going to be $150 million fund. Uh we can raise up to 200 million. We're going to have a soft close at 75 million.
I have to say for the record since this is a public thing, we did file for general solicitation, but this is not a solicitation for investment. I'm just merely uh sharing this information in case you're interested. He knows he knows his legal department. Um and so uh so but we're getting ready to launch that now. We're getting ready to go to market to start raising that fund. We have a $25 million anchor is already in place.
Nice. Um and so um people can inquire about that on Elevate Ventures if they hit the growth fund tab. Yeah. And that's like a natural progression, right? It's like you for the last how many years? for the last 15 years, you're in those early stage rounds and it's like then your companies grow up and then you don't get to participate anymore in the upside, right?
So sticking them out and like as they grow and launch and you know then have big exits, you get to benefit. Yeah. Entrepreneurs need to know that they can scale their company in any given geographic location. Yeah. And so this is in Indiana, we've had incredible early stage investors, right? Historically, uh we have some great private equity folks.
Uh but we we have never had a growth stage fund here. Yeah. And I I feel like that's a common theme, right? It's like you raise your early rounds with Indiana some local money there and then it's like you're trying to pull from the coast to like get that that growth round and make it to participate on the huge upside. Well, we take all the risk and they come take all the risk adjusted returns. Yeah.
And that's when we want to still welcome. We're not trying to displace any any coastal investors. We're just going to participate with them and also have the ability to lead a series B round. I love it. All right. I think that's a good good scope of where we are with entrepreneurship in Indiana.
Do you have some time for some fun questions at the end? Let's do it. All right. So, the first question is our younger years segment. It's brought to you by our friends at OR Fellowship. They're a great organization here in Indiana helping develop young business leaders across the state.
TOEFL. What advice would you give to your 22-year-old self? Whatever your dream is, start it now. Don't think you have to take two or three steps before you start pursuing that dream. I think a lot of people if the dream is starting a business or whatever, they're like, "Oh, I can't start a business till I quit my job or I can't do this." Like, just start it.
Start. Like I always say, I have a lot of um like college kids, they're like, "Oh, I'm interested in entrepreneurship." And I was like, "Have you have you got the free Instagram account for your business that you want to start?" Like, "No." Have you bought the Did you go shovel snow for cash at the last snowstorm? I sent all my wrestlers out.
Yeah. Yeah, we send them out and they but my my thing was if you you can go make some money on them but if the person's elderly I was like you have to do it for free. That's I love that. That's awesome. Great. But I but l my first official entrepreneurial experience I picked up a paintbrush and I started painting homes and there go listen to the old stories about the first time that toe butchered oh my gosh like a huge pro like the first huge project got over.
Yeah, go back listen that one. It's worth the listen. Um okay. What's one habit you swear by for success? Transparency. When you screw up, just admit it.
When there's a problem, solve it. Like just transparency. Just deal with the here and now. You just go so much farther faster. Amen. I agree.
A lot of people it's like, "Oh, and like the longer you keep it hidden, it just grows and grows and grows." I I have made so many mistakes as an entrepreneur. I can't even shake a stick at it. I still make mistakes today. Uh but when you just own up to it with a board member or an investor or whatever, like I this is what just happened. and I screwed this up and and either this is what I plan to do or give me a minute and I'll come back to you with what I plan to do is to solve it.
But then just get in front of it quickly. Dude, I just had Matt Mason. He's a country music star. He's from Shelbyville. Lives in Nashville now. And I mean he's getting like I think his top song has like 100 million streams on Spotify.
Big dude from Triton Central High School. Awesome. Uh and he literally just talked different different than business, right? He's like, you know, you're out on tour and you make some mistakes and this type of hard living that he was doing. And he's like, the hardest for eight years I kept everything a secret, you know, for my wife. Yep.
And he's the hardest conversation I ever had to have was going down and telling and revealing everything. And it was as soon as I did that, like his career like went up. He like released all this like the things that have been eating at him and didn't have the transparency. And he says it changed his life. Yeah. It's like whether it's business or anything in life like transparency is crucial.
What's the best local event you've attended in in the in Indiana? Rally. Heck yeah. That's not a local that's a global event though if it's a global event. That's true. That is a global event.
Uh the best local event I've attended I would say any of the events on the circle I think are great. Like Strawberry Festival or I just think they're great, right? It's just random and and people um that's probably the best one. That's a good one. The best one I have not attended that I think that I still need to attend. I have not attended uh Gang Gang yet.
Oh, butter, excuse me. Art festival. I need to go to that for sure. Uh they doing some cool stuff. I went to my first penrod this year. Yeah, I thought it was pretty sweet.
How was it? I've heard of Pinrod and I've never gotten involved over the years, but I heard it's wonderful. I mean, a bunch of I think it's like the largest I'm going to butcher the stat like largest single day art fair in the nation or something like because it's just all one day. Correct. It's huge and a bunch of really good dudes are involved with that. So, I had a good time.
I'm not really like that big of an art guy. and there was plenty of stuff for me to do. It's awesome. Um, okay. Final like lightning round fun question like this uh crazy business idea that you're going to give to someone like on the in back pocket. But here's here's one that this is literally three years ago that I was trying to get somebody to do and that was go just stand up a library of a bunch of different AI point tools and just give them away for free and then figure out the step two of of uh of monetization of monetization.
But like but like make it easy to find these AI tools or just start building them yourself and start giving away for free and start those old books like AI for dummies or like whatever. Like that's what we need. Like that's what I need for sure. All right, I got a fun. Oh, I got another one for you. Roller skating.
I think roller skating is back. Somebody should go start a roller skating business. Roller skating rinks and do high-end roller skating. I think it's back. If there's someone out there that wants to start high-end roller skating, I'm in. I I would I would get behind that.
Yep. U Okay. How well do you know the state of Indiana? We have 92 counties in Indiana and we have invested in 86 of them and helped someone. Last Do we know the last six are? I know.
I'd have to go look. Oh, I bet it's like Switzerland, Ohio. I'm like thinking. So, this was a whole like challenge that I did was trying to learn every county in every county seat. And I could do it for a moment there, but then there's some that are just like there you're like down there's like a southern corridor there that's pretty challenging to get. We have amazing things happening all these counties down in Lagod, Indiana.
Yeah. Um, there was a a gentleman, an Amish uh family, and they made the cabinets in the last two houses I've had. Uh, and they make a phenomenal, gorgeous cabin. Have you heard talking about Northern Indiana? This would be like Napa area's Gen Y hitch. Have you heard of them?
I have not. Dude, they make like these luxury hitches for, you know, like jacked up trucks that like drop or whatever. Like, they're all over Instagram. Huge. And they're all manufactured right here in Indiana. They're like on the like the big trucks you see people.
Yeah. that's there. Like there's so many cool things just on the state and it's interesting to see the pockets. I like what you had to say about corridors. Yes. Where you have life sciences and you have hard tech and you have quantum defense tech.
Defense tech south. So that's from southwestern. Well, that starts go down to Crane. Yeah. Right. And they're in the process of building that all the way up through.
It's going to go through Chicago up to Green Bay and beyond. It's pretty insane. I love it. All right. Final question. What is something the world needs to know about Indiana?
That we are the innovation capital of the world. The innovation capital of the world. Let's go. All right. There it is. You heard it here first, folks.
Not even first. We've heard it like a thousand times, right? We are the innovation capital of the world, and you need to get in to it. I love it, man. Thank you for coming on coming back on. if you the first probably like 50 episodes uh TOEFL was an amazing co-host on this and through the evolution of of how the podcast has gone.
It's always fun to get back into uh focusing on what's going on in tech and investing and all the fun stuff across the state. Uh Rally, do we have dates for Rally? This September 24th and 25th and uh September 24th and 25th of this year is Rally. Go to rallyinovation. com. Tickets go on sale March 6th.
Um, watch for the pitch competition. Um, the, uh, applications will be open here very soon. Call for speakers is open now, so be sure to submit your ideas, make sure they're well baked, make sure they're provocative. Uh, we're looking for real world takeaway value for a and and hopefully around AI. Uh, so all those things are open and ready now at rallyation. com.
Heck yeah. And I saw you guys just announced the rally committee. So we launched the first uh, the inaugural host committee for Rally. There's over 80 people uh that have joined that. We have three incredible co-chairs. Uh Vanessa Cinders, uh Dave Nef, and Seth Morales are the three co-chairs this year.
They're absolutely crushing it. And we have about a half a dozen vice chairs of the various committees and then a bunch of committee members. And everybody is leaning in uh and getting stoked. They're getting in. They're getting it. I love it.
Toe, thank you for coming on. Appreciate all you do for the state. Uh I always find myself so energized after our conversations. So, uh people need to go check out. Last thing I'll say, check out Innovate or Evaporate. Uh I think the first guest was A-Rod, Governor Eric Hulcom.
There's another one among President Chang of Purdue. Yes. Like some really really cool guests that are coming on there and more cool stories that are going to be We have people that are rolling out from people from the NASDAQ, people doing film production. Um we'll have the president of IU on uh some entrepreneurs. We have This is going to be hard. I remember you're a Purdue guy, right?
So No, I love it's all good. No, I love it. I almost went to IU as a matter of fact. So I remember you told me that what about the fraternity or something and that you were already into a house. Yeah, I accepted a bid at a fraternity down there as a senior in high school and then I changed my mind like four years. Remember, right?
Uh cool. Appreciate you to and um we'll see you guys next time. Thanks Nate. Thank you for listening to this episode of Get In. If you like what you heard, make sure you leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater.
Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all of my gear recommendations at sweetwater. com. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok @ Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being part of what makes the Who's Your State great. We'll see you next time here on Get
