The Story Behind Three of Indiana’s Most Successful Restaurants

My guest today is Tom Main, the owner of Tinker Street, a cozy 1000 square foot restaurant on East 16th Street right here in Indianapolis. It opened back in 2015. Now, before that, he launched the local Italian pizza chain Puccini's Smiling Teeth back in 1991. More recently, Tom expanded to open a new restaurant in Carmel called Freeland's.

It's intentionally designed to create job opportunities for adults with developmental disabilities. Today we're gonna be talking about Tom's interesting journey into the restaurant business, growing this thing, taking a leap, starting Puccini's back in 1991, then branching out again, uh, with Tinker Street in 2015 and most recently in Freeland's talking about the ups, the downs, and the gritty hard truth about the restaurant business.

I'm really excited you're gonna enjoy this story is gonna have lots of twists, turns, and, uh, it's gonna be an interesting one for the books. Tom, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you, Nate. Okay. Wow. Uh, we've been, we've known each other for a total of 22 minutes thus far, and in 22 minutes, Tom has said some very, uh, interesting pieces about his journey in the restaurant business that I'm really, really excited to unpack.

Now, a lot of people, you know, that grow up to start restaurants and, you know, you know, grow chains or whatever, get their start. They're 15, maybe they get their first restaurant gig and they're in high school. They're washing dishes doing this, that, the other thing, and they grow up in their restaurant business.

Tom, your entrance into the restaurant business is a little bit different, and it comes at a very pivotal point in your life. Talk to us, what got you into the restaurant business? Desperation. Yeah. You're 30 years old. Yeah. And desperation got you into the restaurant business. What created a desperate 30-year-old that needed to get into the restaurant business?

I took a federal vacation. For the importation and sales of marijuana. Uh, the times I was doing this was from late 70s into the mid 80s. The government tired of my, my antics and efforts. This is the time I think that today, it's like you can go to Michigan or Illinois or Yeah, Ohio, Colorado. I mean, I could go on and on list all the states.

Like it's definitely not that taboo. I would say at this point in 2025, in nine, in the late 70s, early 80s, it was a very different climate in regards to that. Yeah, that's the answer. The war on drugs, Reagan administration, Just Say No. All those things were becoming, um. I don't wanna say fashionable, but prevalent.

Where did it all come to a point and what got you to a point of like, I need to change my life and I need to figure out and into that point of desperation where you joined the restaurant biz Long before I was caught. I, I really knew that that wasn't really it, that's not what I wanted to keep doing. I knew that that wasn't really an expression of who I am.

Yeah. You know? And that I felt like I had potential to, you know, make an actual difference in some ways in the world. Did you have another career at the time? No, I did not have another career. And so like, was there a specific moment where you're like, oh, man, like, because I do think that that's, and this is with anything, we, we all do things that we know we're not supposed to be doing.

Yeah. Whether it's like. You know, like we all have those things and everyone that's listening can internally know the things that, you know, you shouldn't do, but you continue to do it. I feel like, uh, I've talked to a few people that maybe have, have a past like that Yeah. That have, that have done things and it's like during it, you know, like, ah, I have to change.

I have to, but you like, never get yourself to actually make the change. You never get yourself like actually out of it. Yeah. I, yeah, I mean, I was forced into it, and I think that was really the change. Yeah. And I, I'm grateful for that. I think that it, it wasn't gonna happen, or at least as soon as it did without inter, you know, inter interference.

Yeah. And so you end up going to federal prison. I think on a lot of levels, I was just really lost. And that's what led to it, you know, and I thought, wow, this is a chance to, uh, you know, make some money. Um, which I thought. It's nice to have, but I thought that it would change, you know, how I felt about myself.

Like, you know, like inner confidence, self-esteem, those kind of things that become cliche. But I think that's a big part of it. Like that, you know, we didn't grow up with a bunch of money. Yeah. So this thing, so I thought, oh, you know, you get some money, you can buy some stuff, you can get a nice car, you can, you know, travel, do these things.

And while those are nice, it really is true. It doesn't change who you are inside. And so, yeah. You know, sort of an, an empty journey. And so, you know, I'm, I'm grateful for the experience. I think the best thing that happened to me through that was that I was able to experience going into a bunch of really great restaurants, uh, not just in the States, but in other countries.

And I fell in love with them, which at the time I just thought I, I liked being in these places. Um, where, where was the first restaurant you walk in because you're like, you're overseas, like doing business deals, and you walk into like a fancy Colombian restaurant or something and you're just like, wow, this is sick.

And I think what it, the places that really got me were really here initially. Yeah. Not in Indianapolis, but like in New York or San Francisco. Um, I, I love those cities. Gosh. I mean, it just had so many wonderful places. Yeah. Uh, so that's when it really hit me. And also, I mean, I can remember, uh, going to a restaurant in San Francisco called Stars, a chef named Jeremiah Tower, who had worked at Chez Panisse, which is a very famous restaurant in Berkeley.

Um, really some of the pioneers of really fresh farm-to-table, which became cliche, but really working closely with that. And he came from there. And I, I ate there one night and just was like. Oh my God, this is so great. And just super fresh. Simple but fresh. And I went, I'm, I'm coming back tomorrow night and it was a completely different menu and same thing.

And I did it again the next night. Let's go. And, and it was just blowing my mind. So did, did you have that conversation? Because again, this is like in your twenties and you're like, Hey, when I get done with this, with this current thing, like, I wanna open a restaurant. No, no. You were just a conno, you were just a connoisseur of food.

Well, a connoisseur is giving me too much credit, I think. But I, I just enjoyed having trouble. I, I just really enjoyed that feeling of people working together, you know, and that I'll, I'll just call it that hospitality conviviality, you know, those kind of things. I just thought it was just so wonderful. So you end up, uh, going out to Missouri, like, where was the moment where you realized, Hey, when I get out of this mm-hmm.

I'm going to. Change and I'm going to do something different. And like, take us through the thought process of that, of like waiting for something in the future and, but, but buying your time today. Yeah. Well, it gave me some time to really look inward. I'd already begun meditation, transcendental meditation before I'd gone.

Um, so I got deeper into meditation. I spent a lot of time, did this help with the confidence side of things? Like, I think at first you said, oh, you know, as I get more money, and I think a lot of people think that way, more money, nicer car, bigger house, all those things are gonna make you feel happier, better, more fulfilled inside.

Yeah. But really then you get there and you're like, oh gosh, it's actually just a me problem. Well, you're still the same person, right? Yeah. Like really? And so that one occurred to me pretty quickly, but I just didn't know how to get out of the, the bag, so to speak. Yeah. You know, so I, I really think that that, um.

You know, call it getting in trouble or whatever, uh, was really a blessing. Yeah. Like kind of where did you definitively make the, Hey, when I get outta here, I'm going to change because like, recidivism, you know, like that piece of like Yeah. People get down that journey and it's tough to break outta that cycle.

Yeah. I, I, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I, it was scary. I mean, I, you know, it didn't look good on paper. Um, I had, uh, attempted college twice. Never actually attended a class, but flunked out both times. So I had to test back in the second time, like, you know, oh, this time I'm gonna do it. And. I got as far as the door of the, uh, the first classroom and went, I can't do this.

Where were you going? And then didn't withdraw? Uh, IU and then IUPUI the second time. Well, and you're saying, Nope, I did the same thing the second time. I did the first, you know, meaning I just wasted the money. Why? I don't really know. I, I don't, school was never really my thing. Yeah. I tend to, you know, get distracted pretty easily and so if they're not talking about something I'm interested in, then you know, I'm looking out the window.

And where was the first moment that someone talked about something you were interested in and that like learning and latching onto something really took hold. I can't believe this popped into my head and it wasn't something I wasn't even interested in. Okay. So I remember being in grade school. Yeah.

And there was a, a kid who was really into like army stuff and tanks and things, which I had basically no interest in. I was like third grade or something. Yeah. But I remember him talking about it such, you know, just passion, you know, like he was so into it and I re, I'm just sitting there and the hair on the back of my neck was like standing up.

So it was like, oh. 'cause there was things, you know, where as little as little people, you know, growing up there's things we're sort of naturally good at, you know, mine was sort of math and some other things that, and so, but, but it just sort of came to me naturally those ways. Yeah. Like it does for some of us.

But I loved, I loved reading, I was a huge reader early. So you hear the third grader talking about his conviction about tanks. Yeah. And then like, so you start to realize that there is a passion out there. Like people can find the thing that they get hooked on. Yeah. Like just that sort of. How deep he, he was into it as a kid, you know, it's like, it was just like, wow.

But I, I loved reading all about, you know, like I, you know, Lewis and Clark and, you know, yeah. Just, just all of our historical figures. So you get out, you come back to Indianapolis and you need to find a job. You're a little over 30, early thirties, and you take your first job in the restaurant business out of pure desperation.

Where's the first gig at? Well, it, it didn't happen exactly like that. So what happened was, I was gonna be on parole for five years. Okay? Six months. Were gonna, my first six months back, were gonna be in the halfway house. During that time, I, a friend of mine who had an air conditioning parts, um, business, I, I drove for him during that time.

But I knew I wasn't gonna keep doing that. But my initial partner at Tinker Street, Peter George, I did a couple of, I don't wanna say catering, but I, I served at a couple of events while I was, during that six months, and his original chef, Tony SLIs, um, he and I were friendly and we decided we were gonna create a sauce business, believe it or not.

And we were making things like blueberry barbecue sauce and things that were, were not, um, you know, you just didn't see much of this kind of stuff. Also, you couldn't outsource anything. So he and I were making all of it. We had a campfire, onion marmalade, which later became a pizza at Puccini's Campfire Pizza, which hey, about 10 years ago, won the best pizza in the world in Italy.

Can you believe that? I didn't, I didn't find out till five years after it happened, but. That was kind of nice. Wait, what? Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I mean, it was not the best pizza in the world. How does anybody decide? That kind of thing. But, but it's an interesting pizza. Someone claimed it to be. Well that was really nice.

So at one point you were the inventor of what became the best pizza in the world. I hope that's not the only thing I have going for me. Okay. So I hope that's not it. So you're 31 years ago you're working with sauces. Yeah. So we're doing that. You're start a sauce company. Yeah. But then it became apparent, there was just financially, there was just no way this was gonna work.

Like there was a Atlas Grocery store, you know, picked it up. Uh, there were Elia's grocery stores. They were carrying them super sweet. I mean, to support local guys, you know, and this kind of thing. But the amount of work you went through to produce it or, you know, the small say, it just wasn't, you know, we needed to survive, you know, or I did.

Yeah. I mean, I had two, two young young girls and a very patient wife at the time. Yeah. And, uh. So Tony said, let's open a restaurant. And I said, really? And, and so I, I better go get some experience. He and I never opened a restaurant, but I went, um, I called um, friend Fletcher Boyd, who had a restaurant downtown called Fletcher's and went to work for a minimum wage.

I think it was early thirties. Well, I'm trying to think now. I'm probably 31. Okay. 31. And you go to work for minimum wage with a family at home? Yeah. Well, I was getting help, you know, uh, Terry, my first wife was school teacher and she'd begun teaching again, and, and like that, so, you know, I'd love to tell you that I had some elaborate plan.

I, I didn't, I mean, it's like, I don't know if I've ever had an elaborate plan in my life. Minimum wage. What were you doing? Yeah, I was working in the grill room, which means, so Fletcher had, uh, an upstairs and dine sta uh, upstairs, down and downstairs restaurants. Uh, upstairs was a grill room, and so it was, you know, just simple menu, you know, grilling some fish, making salads, that kind of thing.

Downstairs was a, a, I'll call it, more of a, you know, a little more upscale. Yeah. So you're working the grill room for minimum. How long do you do that for? I have no remembrance. I, I don't know. It wasn't super long. It was months. Then Tony said his friend Keith Carey, who had been at Bazbeaux Pizza was opening or had just opened a, a pizza place at 62nd and Allisonville.

Called Some Guys. Yeah. And was looking for help. So I met with Keith, and so I was the morning prep guy there for a while. And so then you moved Love Keith. Love Nancy. At one point we discussed opening another one, but that didn't seem to, I, I, I can't remember all the details, but just it wasn't gonna happen and so.

I was gonna move on. And one of my best buddies said, well, let's, let's open one of our own. I'll get the money. And, you know, we opened. I said, I want my brother to be involved. And my brother is a, you know, wonderful musician that had no restaurant experience. Heck, my buddy hadn't any restaurant experience.

What made you guys want to do a restaurant? I had developed a pretty good taste level, I guess I would say, in how things go together. Um, I would never call myself a chef. I kind of bristle, bristle at that, how loosely that can be thrown around. But, but I could cook and I knew how to, you know, put flavors together.

And so I had my own ideas. But when, uh, Mr. Digger, as we call him, came to me and said, let's, um, let's do this. And I said, well, let's meet at, uh, at, uh, the original Cafe Patachou. Martha had only been open a short time. I, I still, you know, when Martha and I get together sometimes I'll bring that up, or last time I go, I miss that one.

You know, kids playing the vac. I mean, it was just so, everything was so intimate and, and personal. And that's where it was formulated. And I, I said, uh, yeah, we'll do it. I, I think I can, you know, I think I can make up the food, but you know, let's get my brother involved. And he goes, what? For? He is a musician.

I mean, kind of, I'm being a little and I go, he'll watch the money. There you go. You know, of course he did more than watch the money. And over time, and, you know, we all had our parts, but there's so much to these stories, you know, that you, you, you look back, and this is now, you know, the first one was March of 91, but I can remember we were standing out in front of the original location, 86th and Ditch.

Um, it was just being that center was being built, a local developer. Um, George Broadband lived pretty close by. I mean, we didn't have any money, you know, standing out in the parking lot. I remember the, uh, guy who was, um. You know, the real estate agent, John Byrne, and later we started working with his brother Bob, but standing in the parking lot and, uh, I'm telling him what we want to do.

I think Digger was probably there, maybe Don too, but I like, I mean, we didn't have any money to speak of. He goes, I like it. You know, like, keep me the menu, you know, make up a, you know, financial plan and uh, you know, let's see what we can do. And so, I mean, he sold it to George. Thank God Digger got us most of the money.

I think we opened the whole thing for, you know, $90,000 or something like that, the whole restaurant, but it wasn't gonna be Puccini's. So it, it says, my brother's sound man for his band. Uh, his nickname was t. And so, you know, we've got our coming soon, Tucci coming soon, and then we get a call from a lawyer representing Rich Melman outta Chicago who.

It's just a huge restaurateur developer. You know, he started Maggiano's and Corner Bakery and just, you know, he's partners on a restaurant with Oprah at the time and all these things, and he had a restaurant called Tucci Benucch in Chicago, and they were worried that it would be confusing. We got on the phone with the attorney, maybe we had an attorney that helped us, but just went, Hey, look, we'll stop.

We'll name us something else. You know, like, but you know, we've spent $1,500, you know, on the beer and wine license, so is there any way you could give us $1,500? What'd they say? Yeah. No way. Yeah. Did it, they paid you $1,500 not to name it. Well, just to tucci. I mean, it was like, I thought, wow, they have a heart, you know, they're not trying to kill us.

'cause then we weren't like, oh shit, okay, well, we're. Okay, well just stop. I, what are we gonna do? Fight this with your legal department, but could we have $1,500 please? You know, and they gave it to you. Yeah, that's my remembrance. There you go. Okay. Yeah. And then, and then the, so then where'd the name Puccini's come from?

We had a, like four pages of possible names. And I don't know, for the people out there, you know, the, you look at restaurant names and all this stuff, and, you know, where did that come from? And, but you know, when you're just looking on a piece of paper, it, it just isn't anything. Or if you ask, oh, Nate, what do you think of this name?

Or, Beth, what do you think of this name? Whoever you're, you know, like, and, and they're gonna go, ah, that's nice. Or like this. Well, it's when it's actually open that it comes alive, right? Yeah. This thing. But we were just so tired of it. And I think, uh, Digger had wanted, he, he liked the idea of Puccini's and Don, and I thought it was a little highbrow.

Oh yeah. Like, well, you mean, you know, amazing, um, composer, you know, La Boheme, Madame Butterfly, all these things that he, he wrote, but we wanted to lighten it up. So I think Don and I had been drinking quite a bit and, and, um, and went, we added smiling teeth to it. That sounds kind of silly, but you know, like your whole mouth and teeth would be happy with what you're eating.

And, and that's it, man. And so you opened the first one for $90,000, like 86th and Ditch. Yeah. And uh, and like the art, you know, like, you know, the day decor, super simple. But our friend Chris Pyle was a drummer with Don and is super accomplished musician and artist. But at the time we didn't really know how accomplished he was as an artist.

He did all the artwork originally that are on the walls that are fun. Then did that for the first, you know, four or five restaurants, I think all originals, and then later we started copying 'em. Yeah. What was the vibe of the first one? Like what vibe were you going for? I was going for the survival VA vibe.

That's, yeah, that's fair. But no, we, we had, um, I just wanted it to be a really honest, you know, like, like the food was real, you know, to, to do the best quality food we could for the, and, and meet a price point. Um, we were so lucky, and this is what I, you know, gosh, people, you can get so much credit for being smarter than you are, and you can also get, you know, discredited for, or, yeah, yeah.

You can get credit for how stupid you are too. So we had originally wanted to open at 86th and Township Line and thank God they didn't want us, it was more of a, a national or regional, um, shopping center. But we went in there. North Willow Farms is right behind it. Just, they were so supportive. Huge Jewish clientele that supported us.

Thank you so much. I mean, it's just like, how quick did you know that, that this was gonna work the first day? Really? Yeah. Like tons of people coming in. Yeah. Um, we had support right off, um, and leading up to it, like I was the one doing the cooking and, um, I'd leave, you know, we opened in March of 91, but I'd leave the door open as much as I could and hoping somebody would like, kind of stop in and if I was cooking something, I'd invite 'em in and, you know, tell 'em what we were doing.

Hey, you wanna try this and, and these things. But no, it worked right away. But if that hadn't worked, our second one was a Clearwater, it, it ended up working well, but at first it was just marginal. And then we opened one on the south side that failed miserably. Really? And if, and you just. The timing of things.

Like if, if somehow Clearwater had been the first one and the second one would've been this out, we've been outta business, you know, but the first one was strong enough that it would yeah. Allow us to survive and close the one after a year. How does the timing in the logistics of opening multiple restaurants look?

So you opened the first one, March of 91? Yeah, it's like seven months later we opened one. Oh, so you, like immediately it started working. It was quick. I mean, the majority of the money we got, and again, so like of the 90 or 95,080 of it, I think came from this one guy and then another 15 from one of our buddies, you know, and, but the guy with the majority, I dunno, there just was momentum and also, you know, our ages, um, we knew that one, no matter how well it worked, it, it's not a, a.

A great living for three years. Yeah. For three partners. For three partners, yeah. And I'm the youngest of the three partners, so there was this time thing, it was too fast. I mean, if I'm, you know, in retrospect. So you go and open that second one? Yeah. Do you have to take another loan out? Well, I mean, the loans from, uh, the, the original guy, you know, like that gave us the eight, I think it was 80.

I might be misreading. Yeah. How are you funding the next developments? The next opening? Yeah. He, he, he, he was doing it with family money, so he keeps getting back in and like, like increasing his investment along. Life's funny, you know, like you, there's certain people you can, that like, you'll go, man, they were not great people in my life, necessarily, necessarily.

But if we're not careful, we forget that by knowing them it led to something else. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. You know, in these ways. And so I, I wanna just be grateful that. Because without him we wouldn't have gotten a start. Yeah. You know, but it became apparent reasonably quick that it wasn't a great fit.

I'll just say it that way. Yeah. And so there came a point, I can't remember, maybe after store three or four where, you know, we worked out a way to, to have that in. Okay. And so then you fail miserably on the south side, man. Did we, how, like, and how do you stay afloat? What is the, and how quick did you know it was, like, you said you knew day one, that the 86 and ditch one was gonna work.

How quick did you know that the south side one was not gonna work? Uh, pretty much immediately. Wh and what was the reason? First of all, we just made many, many errors. Um, in that, did it get more expensive to open restaurants too? Our two first, the, the two first res, uh, puccini's were both 2,400 square feet.

And by the way, I mean, we we're filling them with the people we, you know, we know these are not. You know, cooks and chef, these are, you know, musicians, hippies, y you know, so it's, this is what this is. Um, but we had, we had a lot of fun, especially in the first one, but they were both 2,400 square feet. The one on the south side, which I, I, I went down there one time.

I mean, I'm, I'm working, I'm cooking. Okay. And I'm hearing them say the Outback steakhouse in front is either the busiest or the second busiest, you know, in the country, you know, with two hour waits on the weeknights and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Well, and, and they kept saying it's in Greenwood. Well, I only found out really after we were open that it's in Southport, not Greenwood, which may have made no difference, but it was just like, that's how little thought I was really.

But, and then, yeah, and then instead of 2,400 square feet, it was 3,200 square feet. And the kitchen was massive. And, uh, it just, the best week we ever had, there was, I mean, maybe worse than the worst week we ever had at either the other restaurants. The best week at the South Side location was worse than the worst week at the north side locations.

I, you know, it might be that there was one week at Clearwater, like in the first two or something where it was like this, but yeah, and it, it just became apparent and there was, there was like a little build then we're retreating. These are things you still, I'm still dealing with, you know, in the restaurant business where you go when you are doing business, it's great, but it's not just because of the money, it's because of, it takes pressure off how you staff, you know, you, you go, we gotta have enough people to do this.

When you're guessing how busy you're gonna be on a given night, you know. There start, there starts to be a pattern, and you're going, well, we only do this much business on, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, so we're only gonna run with this. Well, then the, the proverbial bus pulls up, you know, and you're busy and you're going, son of a gun.

I wish I would've known. Well, yeah, we're going, we're, we're not delivering the experience we want to deliver. And so going, so what are we doing? Yeah. You know, like, yeah. So how hard was it to close that one? So, my brother Don and I were trading off on Mondays and Tuesdays. I don't remember which, but like, we literally, we'd be the only person in the kitchen.

Like it was me one day than him. We were approaching the year mark and I, I think I said to him on the phone, I go something like, Don, how long were you alone in the restaurant? You know, like, not just in the kitchen, but you know, like, you know, some hours, right? Like, 'cause we're not open in the dining room or something.

He says, and I go, what if, you know, what if you or I had a heart attack during those two or three hours, right. And just died, you know, it was something like that. And he go, I go, is that the way you want to go out? Like kind of, and I'm going, 'cause it isn't how I wanna go. You know, I gasping. Well, you're putting together no one's pizza.

'cause no one's ordering it. No be. And you just go, what are we do? What are we hoping for here? Right. Yeah. Because it's at this point, you're gonna need a miracle. And we're approaching the one year mark and we are paying our, you know, we're we, you know, we take paying what we owe seriously, we're paying our lease.

And so, but we decided right then, we were gonna close it. So we did a Indianapolis or Baltimore cults thing where we moved everything out during the night. Um, but kept paying our lease. And so, you know, because we felt like we're, and we would've kept paying the lease. So we'd lose less money just paying the lease.

And you know, we're also driving from where the north side, you know, 30, 40 minutes and you have both ways to just think about how it's not working, you know? So that's fun. So anyway, so we did that and then the landlord was, was really great with this, you know, they went well we wanna get it filled. So, you know, we, but we kept paying until they got it filled.

Yeah. And so it worked out. How many locations did you end up growing Puccini's to? I think the maximum it was because it's not that anymore. It might have gotten to 15 or something like that. Yeah. You know, we'd opened six here, then we'd opened in Lexington and then we opened a second in Lexington and maybe a third in Lexington Andia.

How did you know it was time for you to Fort Wayne? Step back. I mean, I've always been sort of a, not so much in, as I've gotten older and older, but kind of restless. I was originally sort of, you know, the operations person, meaning. The food, the this, and this is stuff that still is, is alive and well in me.

But I, you know, my favorite part of the business are the people. And by the people, I mean the people who work there, that'll also drive you completely insane. But, so as we grew and I would go from store to store. 'cause originally, I mean, you know, people make, say these hours that you work and you think it's made up, but you work a lot hours.

I mean, that, that original thing when I was doing the cooking, like I really was working, I, you know, 80, 90 hour weeks, you know, cont you know, sometimes I'd sleep at the restaurant on top of the walk-in, or no? Yeah. I mean, not on top of the walk, you know, but you just go, I'm too tired and I'm gonna be here in, you know, five hours for it.

I just, I don't even feel like driving home. So, you know, you do that stuff. So as we opened, I just, I, I was not. I don't know, when I say together enough or whatever to be able to manage it the way it probably needed to be. I would go to the restaurants, come in and, you know, I was lucky that people liked me.

They liked working with me and, Hey, are you staying? Are you gonna do this? And I'd be going, no. You know, I'm kind off to the next thing that didn't feel great. Um, so I just, I really just had trouble sorting out how I wanted to do it. Yeah. And get joy out of it. And I, I had read this thing at that point called Seagull Management.

Have you ever heard of it? Mm-hmm. Well, it's where you, you know, you fly over shit on everybody and then fly away again. And so that's not really, that's not a, that's not really my style. Yeah. You know, so, so you're, you know, like, I like to encourage, I like to work with Yeah. You know, and do those things and so yeah.

I just, I just kinda lost my way and yeah. So then you end up. Stepping away. How long are you away from the restaurant business? You know, three, three years maybe? Yeah. And then in 2015, you decide to get back into it with a new concept. Take us through how you got the idea to start Tinker Street. Well, once again, desperation, you know?

Okay. There, there's a common theme. Yeah. You know, I'm picking it up in, in these ways, but there's some things I'm reasonably good at. And they do translate to the restaurant business, I think. And a lot of that has to do with team building. My friend Peter, he had had a restaurant called Peter's in Indianapolis.

Um, his original one was in Fountain Square, then he had one at Keystone at the Crossing, and we'd become friends, and then he was out of the business at his restaurant. And a bunch of our, our nicer restaurants, something different, OSA, all those were, were victims of the stuff that started happening, uh, after, uh, World Trade Center stuff and things.

It was just a, ah. It was just a change. I'm just gonna say that. And how people were spending money, et cetera. You know, we lost those restaurants and Peter got into real estate and for year, he and I would cook together and you know, like that. And we talked about opening a restaurant and we almost opened one in Michigan.

We had a property picked out and then figured out that the season wasn't long enough. It just wasn't. And then we kind of tabled it for a minute and then it resurfaced. And we thought, you know, and I had looked at the property. I was actually thinking about opening a pizza place. Of course you were. Well, a different, different style and so much, you know, really small.

Literally where I made. Pretty much everything, you know, like that I was looking for, you know, water buffalo in,

in the US so I could buy their milk could make my own buffalo mozzarella. You know, these things, they weren't easy to come by.

Yeah. I don't know where you start. I think you might be on a list somewhere if you Google where to buy water, buffalo milk in the us but I wanted it to be super in intimate.

I, you know, I'd, I'd been, there was a restaurant in Phoenix that's now famous p Pizzeria Bianco, but Chris Bianco would be there in his John Deere hat with 20 some seats, you know, and just there he is at the oven and, and you know, it's five pizzas and there's three salads. And I thought, I don't know if this will be accepted 'cause there's maybe not enough, but it's, but I'd love to do something like this.

Yeah. And I hadn't found the spot. This was before Martha had done Napolese or Neal had done PizzPizzology or any of those kind of things, but it just wasn't flying. And I'd, I'd, the building where Tinker Street is, I'd looked at a couple times. Not necessarily for the pizza thing, but it was so small. The building, the, the building itself is 900 square feet.

That's small. That's small man. So, so, and it was, had been a real estate office and then, um, an attorney's office. And, but I kept thinking about it. I loved the area. It's, it's crazy to say up and coming about a place where you got two historic neighborhoods. 'cause we're technically in here in Morton, but you cross the street and it's the Old Northside, you know, it was coming on and, um, it just felt right.

So Peter and I did a couple popups at 25th and Central. There's a, like a yoga studio. There was a coffee shop, but they have like a, a couple kitchens set up there where food trucks will pull up and, you know, you can rent out the kitchens at the time. It's on the, uh, south. West Corner. I know where that is.

You know what I'm talking about. Was that where Artie's was? Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know Artie's necessarily, but we, we did an, we set it up, we did a night, I did most of the cooking with some help. Peter organized the front wine pairings and the first night sold out really fast. So we added a second and

we had fun.

And so, okay, let's, let's give this a go. You know, pulled the trigger on the building for Tinker Street

and began, that was in May of 2014. What was the concept like? It was not pizza, it was something, it's different than pizza. We basically opened, so both Peter and I had been divorced three times. Kids grown.

And, you know, neither one of us at that time were particularly well healed. Um, so, you know, and cooking, you know, it's not that much fun cooking for one, you know, at those times. You know, those things. So. You'd find yourself out a lot and just weren't finding what it is we really wanted and making it so you could give people some really interesting food.

But at a, at a good price point, when we originally opened, we didn't have anything on the menu over $19. Oh, wow. Yeah. I took no reservations. We had, uh, both a white and red wine that were $5 a glass that were excellent. I won't go into detail about how you can accomplish that, but, um, I mean, I would, but it's just, you know, so, but it was great.

So we, we, we really just opened the restaurant we wanted to eat in and we were fortunate enough to, you know, Braedon Kellner, uh, became our chef. His sensibility was wonderful. We were able to put together a really wonderful staff. Um, we fell into a sommelier one week before we opened who had actually helped us.

Um, with our popups and had lost her sales job. Lindsay Sloan. Yeah. And we just got creamed right from the beginning. I mean, we were, I mean, it's only 900 square feet, right? Well, we built the patio on, so, so in which we can use year round. So that's why it's really not a thousand square feet. It's more like 1600 square feet.

Um, okay. So how many tables is that? 88 seats total. Okay. 88 seats. Yeah. Okay. Count counting, um, you know, eight bars, you know, bar seats, which there's four on each side. No back bar. I mean, it's, it's action packed. Sure. And from the beginning you got slammed. It was crazy. Like we might serve 250 people nowadays.

You know, we're, we're hoping for a turn, you know, on a weeknight meaning turn would be your total seating, basically. So that means we were turning, we were doing three turns in that restaurant in a, you know, a. Five hour period or or six. It was just wild. And it was super fresh food. You know, we're, I say we loosely, but Braedon and his team were boning fish and, you know, cutting down meat and I mean, everything was super fresh.

We deal, you know, with tons of farmers. We took that very seriously. Still do. It was like magic almost. I mean, just how crazy and how busy it was. What were you doing like in the, within the restaurant? Just putting out a lot of fires. I can tell you so much, but, um, it was, I was actually on expo a lot of the time.

You know what it, the expo positions, once it, once it gets is that getting it to people, you know, people running food servers like this. But no, it would be like, so I'm standing looking so the kitchen's open, you know, into the main dining room and so it's, you know, I am, tickets come up, I'm, you know, okay.

Our, our goal is this, on the first round, it's this, on the, you know, um. On the main course, it's this on desserts. I am keeping the team that are cooking apprised of where we're at on the tickets. Mm-hmm. And in addition to that, um, when you've got that many plates coming up, 'cause originally we only had one window where it was coming out and we might have 500 plates coming through there in that time, you know, so, so it was nuts.

So, um, but you know, they're getting their ass kicked and, and so you're, it's kind of like being a jockey or something where you're just going, you know, you're, you're, you want to encourage, inform, you know, and do all these things and get, get 'em to the finish line and appreciate what they're doing. So yeah.

That, and then, you know, any spare second, you'd be cleaning off a table 'cause you, it's, it needs to be sad almost immediately. But it was, it was an amazing experience for sure. I mean. So immediately you're slammed there and it just starts growing like now. I think it is a very well known restaurant. Again, up on the, you said right between Herron-Morton and the old North side.

Yeah. When did it become a staple of that community and how did it feel to be totally ingrained in that, that area of town? It was, it was really amazing. Um, I mean, I can tell you it's changed drastically since those times. How has it changed? The neighborhood itself has changed, but just to your original question, it's like, we, we got so much love from the neighborhood.

Um, we got so much support. 'cause we thought about it first as a neighborhood restaurant. Um, and then it just, we were fortunate enough that people were driving from, you know, all over the place to get there. And I mean, including, I don't know how they found us at that point, but we'd have people, you know, from the neighborhood sitting next to somebody from Brooklyn sitting next to somebody from London sitting next to.

You know, somebody from guys, you know what I mean? Just whatever it was. And yeah. And, uh, and it was on. Um, I think lots of things have changed. I mean, you know, we over time went to reservations, larger portions. 'cause at the time, the proteins, in order to, to be able to deliver food, we wanted you sharing a lot of things and tasting a lot of things.

So the proteins might only be three or four ounces and you could also cook that much faster Right. In these ways. And so, you know, things have gotten larger. There has been, I'll use the word competition, but it's more like, you know, there's so many places for people to go. You know, when we opened there weren't as many places in Zionsville or Carmel or Fishers or, you know, any of these places where now you can get someplace you like in a couple minutes.

Yeah. You know, and so. You know, people don't drive down as much. Um, the neighborhood is more family than it was back then and we don't serve families. That's true. You know, so, yeah. You know, we don't do carry out or delivery and that's a whole nother Yeah. You know, sort of ball of wax. The restaurant space, I think is one from the outside when looking in is fun.

You get to serve people. You're cooking food, you know. How hard could it be through all of your years in the restaurant business? What's the honest truth about the restaurant business? How long do we have, Nate? Yeah. Nothing like it that I can think of other than maybe theater in a sense. Oh, like that? It is, you know, you have your hours of operation that people see.

Okay. Like, you open a five. Close at nine. Okay. Curtain went up. Curtain went down. How'd we do? What'd we learn? Hey, we're open tomorrow again, curtain goes up. What can we improve those things? So that's a really cool thing is that you can make adjustments, you know, certain ones, you know, pretty quickly, you know, but you're dependent on people.

It's our job and have jobs, not our responsibility. Yeah. To, to provide them what I call a safe environment. And by safe, to me, that doesn't just mean that you are not gonna be hassled by your fellow workers in any kind of way, or you have to accept bad behavior by guests. But it also means you know that your training needs to be, you know, complete.

And do we always get it right? No. Sometimes that's also a thing that's changed because over time the pool has grown smaller. Uh, of people wanting to work in the restaurants, COVID eliminated a lot of people that were lifers at that point, and then they discovered that they could get a day job, you know, and went, oh, this feels pretty good.

How does someone succeed in the restaurant business? Like if someone is listening to this and wants to open restaurants and grow that style of business, what do they need to do to succeed? If you're talking about financial success or just in general success. Yeah. I think, well, I think that's however you define it, because I was gonna say, if it's financial success, I'm not sure I'm the person you should talk to at this point.

Um, really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, but if, if success is, you know that a big part of it is that you want people who come to work with you, for you, with people. To be better off for the experience. 'cause almost all of them are gonna go on and do something else here. Right now is their chance to practice being, you know, their best self.

You know? Yeah. It's like the things we, I struggle with as far as communication and things like that. They show up, whether it's at the restaurant or, you know, with loved ones. So that to me is, is part of, you know, doing what we do. Um, we, we do a family meal every day, four 10, both restaurants, before we hover meetings because at different times we've had people who actually eat, they need food, they don't have enough food.

So, you know, we've had kids like that and so having that meal they can count on and also to come together before. You know, opening, that's an important thing to me before we have our pre-shift meetings. Yeah. But I, I don't know. You know, it's like I, you know, there's Jenna put together some notes in there and, and, and they're true.

I mean, it's like, I, I chose not to take any money out of the restaurants, you know, we'll, tinker a, after we wrote for COVID, you know, because I didn't wanna lose people because I was taking money. So, but it doesn't mean it's profitable. I, I just, I think a lot of people don't realize what a fine line it is between you're okay and, and you have a bad week and go, oh crap, you know, if we have another bad week, you've got decisions to make.

You know, we need to put money in here. Well, where does the money come from? Um, and if you borrow the money, then you gotta pay that back. Okay. And so as you're paying it back, that's a drain on the restaurant, right? So you just get into these, these things. So I think. It's different for everybody. Um, I think, you know, I after, and if this is too much honesty, then no.

When we reopened after COVID, I, I was, I mean, I was burned out before COVID and, um, but I think I've got a different relation with now. I think these restaurants and independent restaurants, I think they're important. You know, I think that, um, I mean, I know there's a lot of people who love Tinker Street, and I, I think there's a lot of people who love Freeland's already, and that's important to me.

But it, it's also, it's, it's, again, it's, it's the team, honestly. Yeah. That's what drives me, you know? Well, it's interesting to go from, you're like, I was burned out and then now you've opened another restaurant in Carmel. So how do you get into that? That was madness, Nate. That was madness. So I had said that, and I, you know, for years I would get, um.

You know, be approached, but I didn't talk to anybody about opening other restaurants in different spots, fishers this and that. And we'd only been reopened after COVID for a couple months. And I get a forwarded email from, um, my, my beautiful friend Tara, who helped me reopen, tinker, and worked for me for years, but I knew she didn't want to keep doing it.

And it was something about this project. And, but she wrote to me, how do I tell them politely no f and way, you know, like, kind of thing. Because she knew I, she's going, I know you'll never do this. And I said, you know, for some reason I want hear this pitch just one time. I want to hear what they have to say.

'cause I hear about, oh, they're gonna throw money at you. They're gonna do these things. So I, I said, I responded to the, to the gal, um, and I said. If you want to come to Tinker and meet me at five o'clock on this day, then you know, we'll listen. But I want you to know there's less than a 1% chance that I will ever open another restaurant.

Less than 1%. Less than 1%. You know, I mean, you know, you say never, and you can then you're a fool. But it's just less. I want her to know the odds were, we're not with her. And so she gets there. And then, so she told me, um, about that it was an actual community and that, um, old town who was a developer, this was a different kind of project for them.

There was going to be a, a garden associated with it, that their foundation went on and that there was housing set aside. Uh, I think it was 42 units for adults with developmental disabilities. And so my initial reaction to that was I just went, oh shit. Tinker Street is totally worthwhile. Okay. But it felt like.

There was more, you know, then there was more, and I, I have a dear friend, um, my friend Chuck Deon, uh, children's rehab doc at, uh, Riley for years and head of medical for, uh, Easterseals and Timmy Global Health and all these things he started. But, you know, I've done a fair amount of stuff with him and, uh, people with disabilities and been exposed.

And we'd always talked about, you know, gosh, wouldn't it be great to do something? And so this seemed like an opportunity. I just didn't know how long it was gonna take. It took three years and eight months to get it open. Holy. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. What was, what were the big delays? There was all kinds of challenges with the design.

There was challenges with the budget, and then there were challenges with the actual build out challenges. Huh? Yeah. So how does it feel to have it open though? I'm really happy. I, I really love the team. I'm happy to have Braedon, um, Kellner cooking with us again. You know, I love his sensibility around food.

My daughters working up there. Yeah, we just have a, we just have a really, really great team. I think a lot of really good people, which is where it starts. You spent a lot of time in the restaurant business. Is there a lesson that working in the restaurant business has, has taught you 30 years? Just one overarching grand message for people that may be looking to get into the industry, to grow in the industry.

People that wanna continue to pour into the hospitality industry? I think people, it just depends on what your motivation is. I think that if, if your motivation is that you, you know, you've always wanted to open a bar or a restaurant, you know, look real hard about what goes into it. I, I just, I get, I can really only speak for myself, you know, and I'm really more of a natural introvert or introvert than I am extrovert.

But I'm going, but I, I'm rooting for people. You know? Yeah. So that's really what drives me. I, I don't, I don't know, you know, I can't speak to somebody else. Right. Yeah. You know, there's that old thing you've probably heard a million times, you know, this isn't, you know, this isn't personal, this is just business.

I just have always struggled with that one. You know, to me it's pretty much all personal. Um, and so, you know, the people, you know, when you have conversations with them that can be constructive or, you know, are there lessons you've had to learn the hard way from people? Like when it's not, when it is personal and not business, you know, like working with staff, working with customers.

Nate, they'll break your heart, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. But that's okay. I mean, it's okay. I don't mean it's, you know, like it's, you're going, that's part of it. If you're, if you're, um, that's why I say that, that the business is, um, it's like, it's life. You know? It's, you go. You're either gonna open your heart, you know, to people Yeah.

You know, and, and be invested in there. What do they say? It's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. I think it's right. But every time I, you know, I've told myself over 30 some years that, you know, oh, you know, don't get so involved. Don't do this thing. You know, good luck if you're wired that way.

You are. Yeah. And so, but that's what makes it worth it, you know? What does the future for you look like between Tinker Street and Freeland's? You know, I'm 68 years old. Some days I'm more tired than others. Brief stories. So I was talking to, um, uh, Justin Moffitt, who's one of the, the, um, two principals of Old Town up as the developer up there.

And they've been great. You know, they feel, I consider them my partner, you know, in, in the Freeland's venture. And, you know, 'cause I'd been talking about, you know, just calling the day exit and stuff like that. And, and in the conversations I'm going, you know, there's so many people that I currently work with, um, that if I didn't have anything to do with the restaurants, if they wanted my time, I would give them my time.

And so I went, well if I'm that invested in these people, you know, um, then I might as well just stay. Might as well keep going. Like in those, in those ways. Yeah. So, and it's just finding it, 'cause I think what happens with age to a degree is that, at least for me, is you're, you're beaten over the head with time management stuff, right.

In these, in these ways. But it's really becomes more and more energy management. You know, making sure you have the energy for the things that. Matter to you, not just your work, but you know, my grandkids, my kids, my significant other, you know, those kind of things. So when people look back at your career in the hospitality industry, what do you hope they think about?

Remember how do you hope they feel? Felt that I gave a shit, you know, for real, you know? Um, hopefully that's it. I mean, you can't really, I heard a long time ago, you can't, you can't really control your reputation. You can only control your, your character, so to speak. Right. So I'm still working on my character, Nate.

Amen. Yeah. Well, we've come to the final portion of the show where we talk all things Indiana. Tom, it has been a pleasure. Thanks. Getting to learn about your journey rollercoaster. Yeah. And we're not, and we ain't done yet, baby. Let's go. That's right. Yeah. Okay. This question is brought to you by our friends.

JC Hart, they're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homeisjchart.com. My question for you, Tom, why do you call Indiana home? 'cause the people I love are here.

Okay. We have some fun, rapid fire questions for you. Out of all of the dishes from all the restaurants that you've, you know, ever, what is the dish, at what restaurant that you are the most proud of? Thousands of these dishes. And it's like, it goes to the blueberry barbecue sauce from the failed sauce company.

Okay. You know what? Now you've done it, so it's really true. I was, I've been surprised by both my, you know, Braedon with the blueberry barbecue sauce. Okay. Like throwing it in, you know, occasionally to something like it, it might even be just like a, like, but like. It might be not at the restaurant, but we're doing a charity thing or something like this.

And Tyler Short, our executive chef at, at Tinker Street has done the same thing. And so, yeah. Thank you for that lead in. 'cause I go, that was, I'll say that's, you know, a nice a no, it's nod, a nod to the, the beginning. It's, it is totally heartwarming, you know, in those ways, you know. Oh, I love it. What's been the most memorable day?

Like if you thought about a day that you look back on, like, this is the rest that showbiz, what's been the most memorable day? You know, I had to close the restaurant for the two weeks, uh, back in 2018 because we had the, you know, when Peter and I needed to part ways and there'd been problems that, uh, I think it was the number one story in the IBJ.

Uh, of the year, which we need some more things to write and think about, is what I'm thinking. This show? Yeah. I mean, let, let's talk about that. Yeah. So in 2018 Yeah. You ended up having to shut the restaurant down for two weeks. Yeah, I mean, there was like a staff movement to like, take us to the scene of what happened.

And this ended up being the number one story in the IBJ. There's, there's so much that goes with it, and I'll try to condense it, but I, you know, first again, I, I want to just say about my, my friend Peter is still my friend, you know, it's like that I, I learned a bunch from Peter and I love him. Okay. And he's my friend, and I just went out and visited him in Napa.

And, but you know, right. It's not business, it's personal. It's personal brother, it is personal, you know? And so now I'm not saying there weren't things happening that, that I. It didn't dig, you know, and, and it led to this 'cause it wasn't like, you know, something happened. Yeah. It's never like one thing.

Right. It was over time. Yeah. And, and there'd been, you know, I'd been doing a lot of cleanup, you know, trying to keep things together. And now it was tiring. But I, I think it was so crazy because their, the staff just wanted to be heard. Okay. They weren't trying to shut down the restaurant. That wasn't their intent.

I think they were really just almost shocked when it ended up going the way it went. And it took on like, a life of its own in, in social media and, and, and the newspapers. And so, but it was clear that, that, that we needed to get it where either I, you know, my choice at that point was either to buy Peter out and continue or just shut it down.

Probably from a financial standpoint, I should have shut it down. Um, but. At the same time, you know, uh, our, as a staff, um, we got to know each other on a whole different level, you know, got really close. Um, but all the stuff with the press was rough. I mean, you know, getting calls constantly and you know, we're gonna write this if, you know, you don't give us more.

And I'm going, you know, people's lives are affected by this. You know, it's like, I'm trying to work things out. Can you just give this a minute? You know? And I, I didn't appreciate, I didn't read any of the stuff, but you don't have to watch all the news now to find out stuff's going on, you know? That's true.

So, you know, friends would be saying this, but I didn't, I didn't like the way, you know, it, it just, I wasn't comfortable. I was portrayed, you know, to be, I'm not gonna speak to the other side of it, but just a, I don't know. They were trying to make me look like a combination between, you know, Gandhi. You know, I don't know.

Just, and I'm going, Hey, I'm just a guy trying to work things out here. You know? Just a guy in the restaurant biz. Yeah. Trying to get this straight. So what did you learn coming out of that? I think all of that stuff came from, from them actually caring, you know, like that they actually, you know, they loved the place, you know, and they loved working together.

And, I don't know, it just comes down to the people again. They just comes down to the people. It does, you know, I, you know, you're looking at your little faces there crying and, you know, all kinds of things and Yeah. It's like, you know, okay, so, so where are we going? Yeah, where are we going? I remember one, one of the, like, we were having this meeting after, and oh, there's a orange awning that's on the front of Tinker Street, but it wasn't there.

It was being delivered. It, it came the day after this blow up. Okay. It's being delivered. And we're, I'm sitting there. With a group, you know, of the key people at Tinker, you know, they're there, you know, and we're, and they're like, going, what, what's gonna happen? Like, what are we gonna do now? You know, like, I didn't know.

I, we just wanted the night off, kind of, you know, like, and then to, to make sure we made some changes, you know? Yeah. And so, and then the, and the awnings arriving and they go, whatcha gonna do? And I go, I'm gonna tell 'em to put it up and I'm gonna order, and I'm gonna open some champagne, you know, and we're gonna, you know, just gonna be together here and then Yeah.

You know, we'll figure it out. And you figured it out. Well, we kept going. Um, I do wanna say what gives me a lot of joy, 'cause I have to mention is I, I, I started a coffee company. We brought, you know, we brought you some we're, oh, what's the coffee company? Well, I'm, I'm calling it Planet Lovetron. I'm calling it, yeah.

Um, it was either that or Thomas Day. So, Thomas Day Thomas. So there's a, there's a few of the people that's actually, I know I'm torn. There's a few people that work for me. 'cause one day I nodded, I I bowed to them and said, Namaste. And they said, oh, Thomas Day, namaste. And I said, that's fun. That was super sweet.

Yeah. But so no, I, I got an experience of of, so you're getting back, you're, you're getting, you're taking on more coffee company? Well, I, new restaurant. Well, I don't see me ever making money from the restaurant business. So, and I, I do need to make a living. So, and I, I love the coffee. I love, I got involved first with some, some of the indigenous at, uh, that live in the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta mountains of, uh, Colombia.

Got to visit with them and it's wild harvested and I'm these beautiful people. Yeah. And so that's what got me going. And um, but there's other, you know, there's coffee, there's cacao, there's all kinds of stuff. Yeah. And other countries too, where I've been lucky enough to get to know small growers and like that.

So. Hopefully we can do some good with that too, because I mean, really when you get, I think, I don't know if you're gonna ask me about a hidden gem or somebody show Oh, we are? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, good. So I'll shut that off. We have three questions that we ask every guest who comes on the show. Yeah. The first one, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana?

Have you heard of the Indianapolis Prize? I have heard of the Indianapolis Prize. It's mind blowing. Yeah. This is like the number one award in conservation, animal conservation. Yeah. And so I had never heard of it. And, uh, dear friend, pat Corsey invited, um, Rachel, my girlfriend and I to come to this, this thing, he had a table and we got to sat, sit with one of the conservationists from, uh, Africa.

By the way, wine consumption is consistently down over the last four or five years. Every year keeps going down. This gal from Africa, she's doing her best to consume as much as she can, which she's in the. Respect, which she's in the us I appreciate it. Hey, come on now. But, so, no, it was incredible. And, and so I, um, I feel like I'm name dropping stuff, but my, uh, I have another friend who had a marketing company for years.

Well done. Well he wrote a lot of the stuff for, you know, surprise. I just found this out. And he goes, Tom, I've been doing this for years. Anytime I ask somebody about the Indianapolis Prize, they've never heard of it. I had, uh, Dr. Rob Shumaker on to talk about, he's the CEO of the Indianapolis Zoo.

Okay. Yeah. And he talks about it in the full episode. It, it's incredible. And it's, it's crazy. Here's your next chance to share something that more people need to know about something that should be getting more attention, that maybe isn't what is a hidden gem in Indiana. I think we have lots of little parks, you know, to be enjoyed on a regular basis.

Yeah. Whether it's Broad Ripple Park, Eagle Creek Park, Cool Creek Park, uh, Fort Ben, you know, Garfield Park. And I love them. I, you know, so I, I lived on Broad Ripple Park for a long time. Every day I was in it for a certain amount of time. Holliday Park, There they're they're all over the place and I think we take 'em for granted.

Yeah. In that way. And then, you know, we obviously have great state parks, but I have spent so much time and at any given moment, there's nobody in them, you know? And the nature's all yours. And another moment, get out there, enjoy those parks get out there and enjoy the parks Have a picnic, play baseball, play, whatever it is.

Now we're talking. Lay in the grass. All right. This is your final question. Yes. This is where we source new guest ideas or learn about other Hoosiers that are doing inspiring things. Who's a Hoosier, we need to keep on our radar. Someone who's doing big things, depending on how you define big things. This, to me is a big thing.

'cause I do some things in the community as far as feeding people and those kind of things. That's really important to me. And so there is a young woman that works for me at Tinker Street. Her name is Sierra Nuckols So she of her own volition, and she did start her own 501(c)(3) but has 86 food boxes, community food boxes that she has built and, you know, has us put, uh, you know, like we have one right outside of Tinker.

And so people fill those with food for people who, you know, need a place to get, get something to eat. So Sierra is, um, to me a hidden gem. What's it called? Uh, it should be like under commu Community Food Box Project. Community Food Box Project. It's, it's Sierra and then it's N-U-C-K-O-L-S is Sierra's name, but she's, she's, she's just quite a lovely human and um, and up to quietly up to good things, you know.

That's amazing. Yeah. Uh, that's so cool. 86 of these boxes. 86. And, um, and there's more, but she's, she and I meet, right. You know, are starting to meet regularly and see what else we can do in the community. But yeah, her heart. You know is big. Yeah. Big Tom. Yeah. It has been a pleasure. Yeah. To learn about your journey through the restaurant business.

Yeah. It is evident. It is so evident that it is a, it is a personal not business when it comes to Tom Main. Yeah. I think that learning your journey from Puccini's, right. Hitting home runs on the first two and you know, having to take, take a lick a few wounds on the third one, and then continue to grow. I think that there's a lot of perseverance.

I think it's hard. I think the restaurant business is hard. It's so reliant on other people, but when you keep your people on your team, when you keep the people in your restaurant at the core of why you're doing it, not to make a profit, not, I mean, obviously you have to make money, all the things there, but like, it's just so apparent.

That it's a people thing, that it's personal for you. It's been awesome to sit here and learn a little bit about your journey. Oh, thank you. It's incredible. My pleasure. We are lucky. The state of Indiana, the city of Indianapolis, is lucky to have people that are inspiring and that care about hospitality and the way that you do.

Uh, I'm excited. I have not tried Freeland's yet. I'm excited to go up there and, and check it out. Uh, like best times to go all the, obviously all the time. But like, when, when is like the vibe immaculate to go to both restaurants? Well, I mean, you know, the weekends are busy and that's great, you know, but I, I just, I think I'm gonna make the plea not just for, you know, you know, the restaurants I have, but for restaurants everywhere.

Yeah. We need you on those weeknights. I have smaller restaurants, right. I see less people at Freeland's than I do at, at Tinker Street. And so we need your support. I guess that's what it is. We all do. Not just, you know, me, but, but, um, the restaurant industry. And, uh, I think also something that's sort of a, as if I may leave on this note is that.

The whole delivery thing has really, really changed the restaurant industry. I do not have restaurants to deliver. I don't think our food translates that way, but it's like, it's really, really changed things, squeezed margins. More people stay home, which I get, I like staying home. Yeah. So, so, but um, you know, it can be a really fine line between, you know, your places that you like staying in business and not.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's like you may not think that dinner date night once a month at your local spot makes an impact, but it does. Yeah. And the cancellations, you know, like when you have small restaurants and you go, you know, I mean, you know, we might have 20 cancellations in a, in a night. You know where you're going that you can't make up.

Yeah. And you're going, and everybody wants to eat in this two and a half hour period. So you, you lose it and you're just, oh man, I'm an, I'm like a, uh, what do they call that? The, uh, I'm an early bird special demon, and then I'm a late night special. Like, if you're on open table or whatever, that's where you can snag the good reservations.

You're totally right. You're totally right. Like, nothing like a 9:00 PM dinner, baby. Let's go. But I mean, the amount of people that eat now after eight 30 is so slim. It is really remarkable. At least in my experience. They just wanna be home gen. You're very good about saying, at least in my experience.

Yeah. Am I You're not, you're not speaking for everyone. You're just speaking for Tom. Yeah. Well, hey, I've appreciated having you in here. It was great to learn more about you and uh, I'll be sure to go check out. Uh, so 16th Street, that's where Tinker Street is. Yeah. Um, near 16th and New Jersey. 16th and New Jersey.

Yeah. And then up at that, it's exactly where the new Indie Coffee Roasters is. That whole little development there. That's exactly, I don't know what the streets are. North End is what it's called the, the community. And it's on Smoky Row. There we go. Smoky Row. Smoky Row. It was a pleasure to hang out and we'll talk to you soon.

Thank you so much for having me