The silence in sitting with those thoughts. The silence doesn't lie. Silence only tells the truth if you just put it away and then it forces you to ask questions and have like deep conversations. It's so powerful. 47% of people could be clinically diagnosed with depression when their cell phone battery gets below 20%.
Think about that. If there was a habit that you picked up during your year without a cell phone that the world should have, what would that be?
From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between. This is Get IN, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Before we dive into today's episode, a quick shout out to our friends at NCW, the team that's been building one of the fastest growing staffing and recruiting companies in America for over 25 years.
They specialize in the skilled trades, but here's the thing, they're also growing their own internal team. If you or someone you know is interested in recruiting sales or just making businesses run smoother, you'll want to check them out at teamncw.com. This isn't just another job pitch. NCW has been voted a top workplace by the IndyStar, landed on the IBJ Fast 25 list and made the Inc. 5000 list multiple times.
I'll tell you, I've got plenty of friends who work there and they all love it. Go check out teamncw.com. Now let's get into the episode. My guest today is Tommy Short. He's the speaker and the author of the The Call I Almost Missed a written out of his year without a cell phone. Now, Tommy's based right here in Indiana, and he spent 365 days without a cell phone and reclaimed nearly 70 full days of time and rediscovered what it meant to be truly present.
I'm so excited to jump into this conversation today. It's gonna be awesome. I don't know out there listeners, if anyone knows someone who's gone a year without a cell phone. I, I could maybe when I was first born, it's like, I want a year without a cell phone and then I turn two. You know, like, come on. So I'm really excited to dive into one, what sparked you to want to give up your phone for 365 days.
Then we're gonna talk about the journey and how you just live life. You know, like, how do you know where you're going? Like, MapQuest isn't really a thing anymore. Like, how do you know the directions on how to get where I need to go? And, and learn a little bit about the lessons that you gain. Obviously you, he does use a cell phone.
It was only for 300, only. It was only 365 days. I'm really, really excited about this one. Tommy, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Nate. Excited to Get IN, dude. Oh, he's been saving that one. Yes. We're going to Get IN today and learn about what caused you to give up your cell phone. I think it's important to know the backstory, right?
Yeah. So, uh, in your career, you were a professional referee. Was that what you college basketball referee? Yeah. A college basketball referee for about 20 years, right? Yeah, about 20 years. And worked with our men's Olympic team for five years as well. So and so through that, right? You got to coach or you got to officiate at the highest level of collegiate basketball.
Division I. Yep. Like in Big Ten, uh, Big 12 Conference USA American Athletic Conference, A-10, about 10 different conferences over these. What kind of young, young boy grows up and says, I want to be an official, funny story about that. So go back to when I was 12 in sixth grade. If there was a statistic for most technical fouls in sixth grade, your boy held the record.
I was a hothead. Okay. But I always appreciated the referees who came over and talked to me. Now, I never liked what they said, but I always remember thinking, Nate, one day, that's, that's what I want to do. I want to be one of the refs who is a human and not a robot, and goes and talks to the players. So from that point on, I, my big life goal was to not play, but referee in the NBA.
Right. Crazy enough. That's the most like Indiana thing too, is like, you know, Michael Jordan, like Kobe Bryant. Like we know those guys are the stars. Yeah. Like, but I'm gonna be the referee. That's right. Uh, and you're a cathedral grad, right? Cathedral. So just like cathedral just churns out what we have, uh, because Brian, Bryan Neale is now a cathedral guy.
He did not go to Cathedral, but Cathedral his son. Yeah. Cathedral grad. Yeah. You guys just, you have all the referees over there. So your goal. Yeah, be a referee. Okay. And at what age were you at when you officiated your first game? When I was in eighth grade, my gym teacher let me referee like third and fourth grade game.
So I got, I got like the fix early on at 14. Fast forward, I go to University of Dayton my freshman year, but it's still like burning. I'm like, I need to start this. And it's like anything else, right? Like I've heard Brian talk about on the, on the show, it's like wherever you want to go, you, you make small goals and you just start asking questions like, who do I know?
Who's a high school ref? All right, let's start there. I had a family friend, so after my freshman year of Dayton come home. Um, graduated from Marian University and just started refereeing high school games. So I was refereeing high school games at, uh, 19, 19 years old. Dang. Okay. So I got my official's license Yep.
When I was, uh, a freshman. Yep. But I, I refused to do any high school. Okay. It was like, I'm only one year removed, I'll do middle school. Yeah. And that was, it was perfect. 'cause one, there's not that many officials. Mm. Like, especially with wrestling, it was like they, they needed, they needed us. And I could make like, I dunno, 70 bucks in an hour.
And I was like, this is great. Oh. At that age, that's, oh, that went straight to the local establishments around Green Castle. Um, and so you were referring high school games? Yep. In Ohio? Uh, no, in Indiana. In Indiana because I had moved back and it was just like, all right. I knew I wanted to get to the NBA, but it probably needed to do high school and then small college.
And college. And how did they judge the quality of an official. Like, how do you know whether or not you're doing well or not? I would say just on the surface, it's, it's a lot like a player. Like you can just go out there. I'm sure you could see with a wrestler like that kid has it, and sometimes it's even hard to define what it is.
Yeah. Um, but it's just how, you know, you gotta be put into situations that the games get a little bit tougher. The players get a little bit bigger and faster and it's like, can you handle yourself in small increments? And if you don't mess up too bad at that level, it's like, all right, uh, here's, here's the next level, here's the next, you know, iteration.
So from, from high school into small college, you work up into Division I. Were there any moments along the journey? I'm sure there were lots of them. Yeah. But like, is there a moment that sticks out of like, holy cow, I might be in a little bit over my head. Like being a young guy getting into Division I?
Yeah. Well, even before that, it was funny. I can remember my first small college game. I was 20 years old. So refereeing, uh, college games, and I don't even remember what it was, but I distinctly remember one of the players, like randomly during the first half turning to me and was like, are you even old enough to ref these games?
And I was like, how old are you? And he was like, 22. And I'm like, you're actually older than me right now. And he was just like, perplexed by that, by that idea. But it was like, I'll, I'll never forget my first mentor, John Adams, when I first met him, the first words that he said, and it was 19 words, and I was like, flabbergasted that there, it wasn't a longer conversation, but he said, the only thing I can give you as an opportunity, what you do with it is up to you.
Like what you do with it from there is is up to you. And so I was like, are we gonna have like, have any other conversations? But got that opportunity to get into small college and, and it really started with Disney. Like the first camp I went to, there's 105 referees or you know, wannabe referees in the room.
Right. And I remember John standing at the front of the room and this kind of lit a fire in my belly. And he was like, you know, just by the pure numbers, it's, it's kinda like players. You know, there's 105 in officials in here. The chances are none of you are gonna make it to, to Division I. And I remember sitting back in that room at Hanover College where the camp was, and I'm like, this guy doesn't know me.
Like I'm gonna make it. I don't care about the 104 other referees or want to be ref, like I'm going to make it. Um, but it's just like anything else, like yeah. The, the chances of getting to the highest level in any profession are very slim. And it's just, just about doing the boring things better than everyone else and just being consistent.
It's not just a onetime showing up doing a big thing. It's like, like you make one big call. Yeah. And the Division III national champion, they're like, get that guy. Yeah. To gain Bridge Field house asap. That's right. Yeah. So just a lot of the little steps along the way and it's actually served me well in my entrepreneurial journey.
'cause, and, and you'll appreciate this is like when you get started, I think sometimes in business it's like I gotta have the complete playbook and I gotta know how, what's gonna happen on like day 4,300. And I always go back to my officiating career and I remember starting. At 18 and you know, to when I retired in, in my late thirties, and never once did I ask what's gonna happen next year?
Did I have goals? Absolutely. Did I Get IN the rule book and train and you know, nutrition and physical fitness and all that? Like all that stuff. What? Oh yeah, we'll get to that. But my, the point is like, I think sometimes we get caught up in the how. And it's like, don't worry about the how. Just know where you want to go.
Have a vision, have, have a destination. Yeah. Right. And then from there you go all out in that pursuit, my mentor, Dan Han mm-hmm. Who's been a guest on the podcast a couple times now, he always says the work will show the way. Mm-hmm. You know, like once you, the artist first, like you set your goal. Yeah. And then you just start going and whatever you thought the journey was going to be.
We are like two years here and two years there, and two years there. And in 10 years I'll be in the NBA. Yeah. And it's like, I'm sure it all ends up, you know. The work shows you the way and how you end up having to do there and, and sometimes your opportunities will be quicker than what you originally thought and other times it'll take a lot longer.
Yeah. But eventually you get to Division I. Yeah. And it's like anything, it's what was the first Hard to get there? Harder to stay there? Yeah. Just, just like a player or or a coach. What was the first big time Division I game you got to officiate as an official? Like we have a different, like I never viewed any game as big.
Right. And I know people are probably like, no, come on. Like, but genuinely whether I was at Eastern Illinois where my first Division I game was, or my last Division I game was the OVC Championship in 2020. Like it didn't matter if I was at Texas, Kansas State, West Virginia, like they were all big to me because I knew how much it meant to the players and I didn't prepare any different, whether I was not on TV or if I was on ESPN.
Like it, my preparation never changed. Like that's one of the things. You know, I'll pat myself on the back because I just viewed every game as the game. But I would say probably one of the more memorable ones was probably Ja Morant. So it was 2019 OVC championship game. Ja Morant was a projected, you know, top three pick every NBA team was there.
They were playing Belmont, who, Dylan, I can't remember the kid's name, but he's actually from like Franklin, um, played at Belmont. He got drafted in the league too. Um, and that was a, that was a quote unquote big time game, um, just from the atmosphere down at the Ford Center in, in Evansville. Yeah. Um, so that was a lot of fun.
Um. Just being around someone of, of that quality. And I had had Ja several times before there, but I would say that was a pretty, pretty fun game. And you get to, you get to spend, you know what, how long is a college? 40 minutes. 40 minutes? Yeah. You doing 40 minutes about a future NBA player? Yeah. Like And did you just know, like in the game too, could you guys tell like, oh this guy's, this guy's good?
Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, it, it's funny, I was just telling someone the story the other day, like his freshman year is kind of under the radar. And then sophomore year he was a projected like top 20 pick and I had to like go back to the media guide 'cause I was like, Ja Morant, Murray State, like I don't remember this guy.
Freshman year. And then that sophomore year, like I think he started the season at Al. They played Alabama, had like 36 points and like two dunks that, you know, were on SportsCenter Top 10. A funny story from that championship game. So this was like the first time. It seemed to me that Ja was doing things that he doesn't normally do.
I think he started the game. I'd have to go back and check, like one for six, one for seven, three turnovers, and he comes to me during a timeout or during a free throw. And I already know, like as a ref, right? Like he's not coming over to ask me like, Hey, where, where are you going after the game? Or What was your pre-game meal?
Right? Like, I know what he's coming to do. But in those first, like six or seven minutes, Nate, he's doing things he hadn't done all season. He's just driving in the lane, throwing up trash, hoping that we're gonna bail him out. And, and my sense was the moment might be getting to him. So as he's walking over and he starts, Hey, Mr.
F, Mr. F. And I just turned to him and I said, jock, take a breath. And he looked at me like I had three heads, right? Like he's expecting me to just banter and get back in in this conversation with him. And I was like, John, just take a breath. I was like, you're doing things tonight that you haven't done all year.
I've, I've refered you the last two years. If you just play your game, like we'll call the fouls and. The best team, whoever plays the best tonight will win. And he just kind of looked at me like he wasn't expecting that from me. And then as, as kind of a, a, a side as as we're leaving, I just turned to him and I was like, job, by the way, do you think if I start bailing you out with these kind of BS calls tonight, is that really gonna help you next year when you get to the league?
And he just kind of looked at me and it was like the first time I could tell like he took a breath and it was almost like the weight was off his shoulders. And he kind of looked at me and smiled and I kind of gave him a knot, like a wink. And it's like, there you go. Just play ball. So he goes on to score 36 points, MVP of the, now that conversation didn't change it, but think he got back.
No, it was completely that he got back to. The basics and what he knew how to do. Yeah. He wasn't getting caught up in the moment. So that was, uh, yeah. As I got later in my career, like I appreciated those conversations. More of like just trying to help kids and it's like, just play basketball. Don't, don't worry about us.
'cause the best players don't worry about referees. They just go out and play. Absolutely. And, and mean spending time around. The best players in the United States is nothing new for you. Right. You got to spend time with the team. USA. Yeah. The Olympic team. Yeah. 2012, 14 and 16. So 14 was a world championship team, but then 12 and 16 as well.
So it's like this is, you're, you know, you're spending time with the OVC championship in 2019, but it's like you had already done three Olympic cycles, right? Yeah. Or two Olympic cycles. Two, yeah. Two Olympic the team and a Team USA. Mm-hmm. Like you get to go call their games. Yeah. Talk to us about that experience.
It's, it's unbelievable. I know we've talked about some of it off, off camera and happy to share any of those stories, but what was eye-opening about that experience? Nate was even at that level, right? On the 2012 team. For your listeners, you've got. Starting lineup. Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo, uh, Chris Paul Tyson Chandler.
And then the second unit back when they were still teammates with OKC, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Deron Williams, Blake Griffin just got hurt. So they bring in some guy Anthony Davis, uh, and then Andre Iguodala and Kevin Love rounded out out that squad. So you've got arguably like 7, 8, 9, future Hall of Famers, some of the best to ever put basketball shoes on.
But even at that level, Nate, it was the, the kind of, the first surprising thing was there was even another level. And what I mean by that is like, I just assumed like, okay, all of these guys are gonna have the same exact worth, ethic, work ethic. They're gonna have the same, just intensity the same. And it was clearly like there was a delineation from.
The Alpha, Kobe, and then everyone else. And that, I think that was the most surprising thing. I just assumed like, you get to this level and everybody is amazing, like there's still levels to this. There's still levels at that level. Like even at the highest level, there's still levels. Yeah. And so you get to spend, so you are, give us these, you're not like ing the game.
This is an exhibition game. Yeah. And then some, some scrimmage, right? Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So in a, in a sanctioned international event, you don't, you can't work your own country. So I would never work USA in any of these international competitions that I did. But for, uh, Olympic training camps, we work all their practices.
And then USA Basketball flies in usually four or five countries every year before the Olympics. Um, and they'll go all across the country and play these exhibition games. So, you know, the big city's usually Chicago, New York, DC West Coast, LA Houston. Yeah. They need to come to Indy, right? Like, what are we doing?
Yeah. Come on. What? Come on. We invented the sport. Like we're right here. Um, yeah. So we would do the, the scrimmages and the practices, and then usually like the next day there's a exhibition game so that, you know, you asked Division I specifically, but usually like when I'm sharing stories on stages or whatever and people are like, what's the biggest game?
I usually, you know, talk about the practice that, that we discussed in, in 2012. So 2012. Yeah. You have a star stunted. It's a 12 man roster. 12 man roster. A 12 man roster with nine, roughly nine future Hall of Famers. Yeah, that's fair. Like some of the best to ever put on basketball shoes. Mm-hmm. That's crazy.
And you do a practice on day one, and then you have the game against like Brazil or someone? Brazil, yep. On, on day two. Yep. And so you're in this, how long is a practice? So that one was about three hours. How long was it? Yeah, I guess How long was it scheduled? So scheduled Three hours. Yeah, three hours. So you're in there and you are officiating their practice, you know, making calls and, and you're seeing that there's still levels like Kobe in this practice.
I mean, he was treating that practice Nate, like it was game seven of the NBA finals. Like his whole career was gonna be judged on that practice. And that was like an a light bulb moment for me of like how hard you go and practice. Far outweighs Yeah. What you're gonna do in a game. And I often say now, like to players, like who you are in practice is, is who you really are.
Who you are in a game is just who you want me to think you are. Because that's when the lights are on, right? Yeah. Like that's when the big stage, so who, who you show me in practice. Like that's who, that's who you are at your core. Yeah. When no one's watching and it's just your team. Like that's who you are.
You got to watch Kobe Bryant in a closed practice for three hours. Yeah. Obviously you're working. Yeah. Yeah. But how did that change your life? A little bit of context of that story. So everything in 2012 got hired into Division I. I had a tryout for the NBA, obviously did not get hired into there, and then started working USA Basketball.
So you have this like complex of like all these experiences and like all these highs and the tryout from the NBA actually was my biggest failure in life, but it also was the biggest catalyst for where I am today. Yeah. And developing a personal standard. What'd, what'd they tell you? Why didn't you Get IN?
It's kinda one of those things they don't really tell you like why you didn't. It's just like, Hey, we want you to move forward. Um, so they never, like, I never got like a letter and there was, and there was no chance to admit do it again or was it it was, it was one of those things like that, that ship had sailed and I was just like all in on college and I was like, Hey, if another opportunity comes down the line, great.
But as I look back on that specific opportunity and, and there's three things I tell people all the time, like that were in my control that I didn't control. That helped me develop a personal standard. The number one thing was preparation. Like I wasn't fully prepared. And that's, that's on me 'cause that's under my control.
Two, I was on the other side of confidence into arrogance. I just got into Division I and I'm thinking like, why wouldn't they hire me? Right? Like this is, this is who I am. And then number three, like my effort when I was there, I just was like walking around. Like it was already given to me. And so now like when I talk to athletes or teams, I'm like the only three things we can control in life.
And because I went to Cathedral, I had to come up with a short acronym 'cause I'm not that smart. But ACE are the only three things you can control. And I have a playing card in my wallet. But your attitude, your confidence in your effort, those are the only three things you can control in life. And so from that tryout that didn't come true, like I'm so grateful.
Um, and this is a whole nother episode, but like in today's generation, we don't chase failure like as parents. Like we don't encourage failure, but failure is nothing more than feedback. And for me it was, it was understanding what I didn't get there that helped me accelerate Yeah. And, and achieve all these other levels of success.
So your greatest failure mm-hmm. At the time, you know, leads you to this closed practice Yep. In Washington, D.C. Yep. With Team USA team, USA, I mean, that's a pretty good constellation practice, I would say. It's not bad. And you get to watch Kobe in this closed practice for three hours. Yep. And what did you learn about wanting to be the be like drive desire?
Like how did, like, you know, three hours there, you get to watch greatness unfold. Yeah. What do you take away from that number one intentionality? Yeah. Like every single thing he did, he was intentional. Like there was no cut corners. He didn't. Skip anything, like every single thing. Um, number two, the standard is the standard.
Um, so there was a play late and, and I'll, I'll use um, nice language for the listeners, but there was a play. So Nate, we had gone like nearly three hours, but the last I'd say 20 minutes, we're doing situations. So for non basketball fans, we're putting four seconds on the shot clock, six seconds, um, white team's getting it out of bounds.
Blue teams getting it out of bounds and we're just like, everyone gets it. And so, um, Anthony Davis has now subbed in, he didn't, he didn't practice the first like two and a half hours because he's young. I mean, he's like, he hadn't played a, a minute in the NBA, he was just the number one draft pick, like the month prior, maybe even a couple weeks.
And so this is his first time on court with NBA players, right? So, you know, they're, they bring him in sub and, and to this day, there's only been one time in my entire officiating career where two things happened. One, I was completely caught off guard, and number two, the whistle fell outta my mouth like.
Almost two decades has never happened. 2,500 games never happened except one time. And it was in this practice. And to this day, I don't know where Kobe came from. All I know is he was one of the 10 on the court. Don't know where he came from, but Anthony Davis catches the ball right below the free throw line.
Excuse me. He's going in for a wide open dunk, and Kobe just two hand shoves him right in the back. He goes 15 feet outta bounds in a real game. Nate, I wouldn't have wasted the audience's time with going to the monitor and looking up, you know, was this a flagrant, like it would've just been one of those, like you throw Kobe outta the game on the spot, no questions asked.
And then he proceeded to verbally undress Anthony Davis, LeBron, the rest of the team, Coach K and, and basically, and, and not so many words, basically saying like, if you are not gonna hold a standard, like I will, right? Like, and so. Non-negotiables. I got that from that practice intentionality. I got that from that practice.
Whatever the standard is, you hold it yourself to that mo. Most importantly, before you can hold anyone else to a standard, before you can hold anyone else accountable. Like to me that's a one-way street. What are you willing to hold yourself to? What are your non-negotiables? What are your things that you're willing to do, no matter how you feel, no matter what the external circumstances are?
What are you willing to hold yourself accountable to? And all of that was from that first three hours of my first experience with USA Basketball, and I'm forever grateful for that. Yeah. I feel like a lot of times people want to. You know, be this catalyst for change and, you know, hold everyone to this.
But it's like, are you internally holding yourself to this high standard? Yeah. You know, like, are you doing what you want other people to do? Are you living that? Like the number one way to be a a a great leader is lead from the front. Mm-hmm. Like, whatever you want to get done. Like, be that, be that person, you know, if he was just sitting there yapping about everyone working harder, but not actually being the one that's, you know, setting the standard.
Yeah. Like, no one would respect that. Yeah. So, I mean, and, and that is crazy that there's just still levels. Oh. It's like you get there and, and I mean, Anthony Davis at that point, like wasn't, I mean, he's, he's a lot bigger now, but like, he's still wasn't small then, and Kobe's not like that. Huge. Yeah. Just frigging, and I'm sure he's like, you know, okay.
Heck, I guess that, welcome to the league, young fella. Yeah. Come on. Yeah, let's go. Um, okay. So, so time keeps going on, you're officiating, but your career starts to draw to an end there of, of your time. Mm-hmm. And refereeing. Yeah. Talk to us about all of the factors that had to come into play mm-hmm. That led you to spend a year without a cell phone for context.
Um, so the year before, kind of the summer of, of 19, going into the 1920 season, it was kind of on my heart. I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna do this any longer. But I didn't wanna be like the athletes who, you know, they announce a retirement tour and then after they retire they come back. So I just was like, you know what, I'm just gonna play this year out.
Just had my first kid. So I was like, maybe it's this new dad feeling. And I'll never forget Nate, I hadn't told anyone. Not my supervisors, not my mentors, not my other buddies. And I'm in a elevator in Dallas-Fort Worth in February and in college basketball that, that's like the dog days. Like you're playing teams for the second time.
Coaches are on the hot seat. We haven't been around our families. And you know, just everybody's like in a bad mood. And I'm on an elevator and I used to have these Delta Medallion bag tags on my carry-on bag, like as a sense, as, as a symbol of status. Like, look at me, I travel all the time. I'm, I'm important.
I'm a big deal, right? And I'm on, in this elevator scrolling on my phone because God forbid we should talk to a stranger in an elevator for 30 seconds. Nate and this guy walks in. I never make eye contact and I've told this story 500 times. In, in speaking. And I still don't know what he said to this day, but I'm paraphrasing saying something of like, wow, it must be really cool to like have all that status.
Something along those lines. And in my mind, I know he's talking about the bag tag, the two bag tags on my backpack in, in my carry-on. And I just remember looking up from my phone and, and just saying, it's not that cool. It just means I'm away from my family all the time. And in that moment I was like, all right, I know, like I'm destined.
Like God put it on my heart. I know there's something else out there. I don't know what it is yet, but I knew my time had probably Yeah. Come to an end. It had, it had served me right. Yeah. And now it was time to pursue something else. So to your question about the cell phone, a little different than like Brian as a, uh, NFL referee or a lot of my buddies who are NBA referees, like we're independent contractors as college basketball refs.
So we schedule our own flights, our own hotels, our own rental cars, constantly checking the weather. 'cause college basketball is between October and March, right. So there was this subconscious feeling that when I was an official. You know, I always want to be attached to my phone because like another game assignment come in, might come in, I might get that call in the middle of the night.
Hey, tomorrow you're at Cincinnati, but I need you to go to Texas Tech, whatever. And I think in my career of 20 years, that happened twice, right? But there was this subconscious of like, don't miss that call. Don't like, no pun intended of on the court, but also like, don't miss that call from a supervisor.
'cause you don't wanna miss a call. And so when I retired, I had a rule that I've made for myself for many sleepless nights watching film and video that if I'm not able to fall asleep within five minutes, I do one of two things. I physically get outta bed. And it's not like I have a timer, but I'm either gonna read a physical book or write with pen and paper, uh, just until I get tired and wanna fall asleep.
And so probably mid-June of 2023, I had this crazy idea in the middle of the night like. What if you want a year without your cell phone. And I'm like, that's the dumbest, like two young kids just started my business. You, you know, all about those same things. And I'm like, this, this is the worst possible time, but went down to my office, uh, it's a gift in the curse of having a, a home office and just whiteboarded it for like four hours just thinking logistics, thinking through it.
Like what if I, what if I did this? And I'm like, yeah, it's so crazy. But the impetus was from always being attached to it and just this idea of like, well, what would happen if you got away with that? What would happen if you just put that aside? Um, and that was, that was the starting point. Wow. Jumping off point.
So it came from, you're in that elevator and you know, you have, obviously you have to admit that you're spending a lot of time away from your family. Oh yeah. Which is, I mean, give us a sense of what is the week, uh, in the, the dog days and once you get past, you know, new Year's Eve. Yeah. You're the next year.
It's January, February, March. What does it look like for a Division I college basketball coach? Yeah. Well, starting the season, you know, now I think it's like the first Monday or Tuesday in November that last year. From opening day. I didn't come back home until the day after Thanksgiving. And in that timeframe, I think I had two days off.
Then I didn't come back home until like December 8th or ninth. Spent Christmas in Hawaii. I mean, there's worse things to do, uh, for the Diamond Head classic. But then January, February was usually like conference game. Wednesday, Thursday, some conferences play weird. Friday games, conference games, Saturday, some conferences.
We'll play commerce games on Sunday, come home Monday and then leave Wednesday. So you're talking, you know, five straight days on the road for eight weeks? Um, during, during January and February. Yeah. That's a lot of time away, especially at that point. Did you have both kids? Uh, the last season we had our first kids, so she was six months when the season started.
So you give up officiating? Yep. And then that leads you to whiteboarding one night. About what it would look like. What were the thing, like what was the first thing that you were like, ah, how am I gonna live without like, that was like, because there might be this big thing, like the big, your brain thinks that this is a lot bigger of a challenge than it really is.
Yeah. In practice. Yeah. I think the first thing was just like travel. You know, 'cause I travel a decent amount now with speaking. And so I was like, well, how am I gonna, you know, get the boarding pass? How am I gonna get the hotel reservation? And I was like, well, what did we do before cell phones? Right. We still traveled, we still got on airplanes.
We still printed out MapQuest directions if we needed to go somewhere. Right? So I think that was the initial one of like, oh gosh, like how am I gonna travel without a phone? But then when I started thinking, okay, it was travel, it was all these other things, what I quickly realized is. It is very convenient, but most often people let the phone use them and they don't use the phone.
Then kind of the last thing that was like set me on the, on the journey was too often in life we don't chase this big vision of the future because of little inconveniences in the present. So we have this big vision or idea or goal and it's like, yeah, but what am I gonna do on day one? Or what am I Like, what if this doesn't work out?
What if? What if I don't get hired for a speaking gig because someone's calling and they're leaving voicemails and now they think I'm a jerk? And I'm like, you could, what if this thing till you're blue in the face? And I'm like, so I just flipped it. I'm like, what if this turns out to be the best year ever?
What if this journey leads to the book that is coming out in a couple months? And this is like the catalyst, similar to not getting hired by the NBA. What if this is the thing that just catapults my speaking career, my writing, and this is the first book of, so I just chose to see it from the other side.
Yeah. There was certain logistical things I needed to Get IN line, communicate with clients, all that stuff. But after that it was like, I'm not gonna let a little inconvenience in the present block me from what could be in the future. Yeah. Okay. So you whiteboard the idea out. Yeah. And then did you tell, did you, did you take this to your wife and you said, here's my friend.
So I, so I actually waited about a month because I wanted to think through every single thing. What if you're at the store and I need bread? Okay. That's not an emergency. Right. And like, I think that was the underlying thing too, of like too often we let others like. Priorities become our emergencies.
Right? And so I just wanted to think through, well, what, what would happen if something happened to the kids? Okay. Well if I'm doing a half day speaking, uh, event in California, which happened a couple years ago, like, I'm not gonna have my phone on an hour before. I'm gonna be, I'm stage for four hours and then, you know, a q and a after.
So there's realistically times that there's four to six hours before this that I didn't have access to my phone. So I just wanted to think through everything. And there literally wasn't one thing where I was like, I can't think of an alternative for that. Is it convenient? No. Is it ideal? No. But again, I didn't want that to stop me from what could be.
Yeah. What the possibilities of what could be. Okay. So you started thinking through all the ideas. Yep. And at what point was it like, I'm doing this? So two things. Uh, the anniversary of starting my company was on August 6th. A story for another day. 86 was the number that I got when I got try invited for the NBA.
So a lot of things are very important to me with the number 86. So August 6, 8, 6 is when I started. My company had the idea mid-June. So in my mind, right as an entrepreneur and speaker, I'm like, first, has anyone ever done this? Right? Like, am I just gonna do something? And from everything I saw, there's a handful of people who have done something like this, but have never written a book about it.
So the book that I just wrote is gonna be the first ever of its kind, uh, in the market about going a year without a cell phone. So as I was thinking as an entrepreneur, two things came to one. No one's done this. So that's just another, you know, I've got this high level basketball experience that I can speak about that not too many people, Brian is one of the few people from a high level athletic.
Okay, now I'm, you know, I'm doing endurance events as well, but now I've got. This in my tool and it, and it turned into something so much bigger. Yeah. Um, that happy to talk about. But the second one was, as an entrepreneur, I was like, all right, six weeks is August 6th. Can I pull this off in six weeks or do I wait till January 1st?
And I, I know Brian is a big believer in like abundance and, and not scarcity. I didn't want to wait till January because I knew that would do two things. One, it would just invite excuses. Like, here's five months of like, well, I can't do this, but if I'm being honest, I didn't want another speaker to hear about this and know that I was gonna start in January and then start in September.
And then he was the first, and then he writes the book. So a little bit was like, I don't want to involve excuses and invite excuses. I just wanna, that's my personality. When, when you do something for 20 years and you have to make 700 split second decisions in the course of 40 minutes, like. I'm decisive to a fault.
Like Yeah. If you ask me to go do something, like I'm in, we'll figure out the details later. You're or you're out. Yeah, I'm in out just I, the gut intuition is like, Nope, this is the end. So you knew it was like, this is what I'm gonna, Dom gonna do it, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it. Okay. So did it start on August 6th?
August 6th, 2023 at midnight for full? Uh, yeah, I turned it, I think I turned it off at like 8:00 PM on the fifth. Okay. And then, yeah, a full year. And you wake up the morning of August 6th, you're going a year without a cell phone. Yeah. How is Day One WISH-TV had heard about the, the Journey And I actually did an interview with, um, Indy Now, or Life.Style.Live!, or one, one of their shows.
I probably should know that off the top of my head. I did a interview probably like 30, 45 days before it was over. And after the interview, the producer was like, Hey, we'd love to have you come back. Uh, when the. When the book comes out and, you know, tell us about all your experience. And I was like, yeah, I'd love to.
Well, I sent her an email and I was like, Hey, I'm doing this social media experiment where, uh, I'm inviting people who've been following my journey and subscribing to my newsletter to guess the number of text messages that I got. What if I turned my phone on in an interview, like in your studio? And she's like, oh my God, that's amazing.
So August 6th comes of 2024. So I don't, this is the end of it. This is like, this is the end. The end. This is the end. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't turn my phone on that morning. I'm now waiting until, I think the show is from like three to four live every day. So like, in my mind I'm like, all right, I've never been on TV, like in a studio.
But from everything I can see, it's just in the middle of a big room. And my phone's been off for a year, so I probably need to charge it. The only thing I thought of going into that interview, Nate, was I need to bring like a portable phone charger because the producer was like, Hey, during the, you know, five minute segment, they're gonna ask some questions and then they're just gonna say, all right, let's turn it on and see how many text messages you get.
So in this conversation going on two minutes and the co-hosts are like, all right, let's, let's find out. So, you know, I plug it in and it's the apple, you know, symbol comes on and I go to put in my password, can't remember my password. And I'm like, and but the funny thing, like, and people like afterwards gave me so much credit, 'cause I'm like, I try like six times on air and they're like, why didn't you get flustered?
I'm like, you have to understand what my background is. Like. I've been in way more pressure situations with 20,000 idiots, uh, sorry. You guys call 'em, fans are screaming at me and like, I don't get rattled. So I'm trying to open it, I'm trying to use facial recognition. And the co-host, she's like, your phone doesn't recognize you, you're stranger danger.
So I turned it on. I actually ended up getting it after the segment. Um, and funny thing is like after you try to send a text three or four times, Verizon just like obliterates it into the ether. So I only had, I think 24, 26 text messages and they were all from that day of, like, from buddies who were like, did you turn it on yet?
Like, have you turned it on yet? Like, what's, no, what's going on? So, we'll never know. So I don't, we'll never know. I don't know if it would've been, we'll, we'll never know. A thousand, 2005. I have literally no context. I have no idea. Or you're just telling yourself that and no one texted you for a year, which would've been great.
But I know I have some buddies who probably left me in the group text just to like, oh, do you think Tommy will ever read this? Yeah. And I'll never see this over, over. Group text alone. I feel like it had to be, oh my gosh. Sometimes those things get going. You get like 5,000 texts in like a month.
Political spam, like just, oh my gosh. You know, all, all this stuff. Yeah. Of like random, I I random text. I wish, you know, I never, that would be cool. Well, I guess we could probably Google like what the average amount of text messages someone gets in a year and then say roughly that. Yeah, that'd be interesting.
Um, okay. But let's go back to day one. Yeah, that's the end. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna know, day one, you wake up, you don't have a phone. Like how do you get where you need to go? Unique situation in that actually in the last week of the journey, so like, kind of like late July, my mom actually got sick, um, during that, that year, uh, to the point Nate, where if it would've happened like midway point, I'm an only child, I, I would've ended the, the no phone year.
So it was like the last year, or I'm sorry, the last week she was getting sick. So I kind of had plans of, and, and, and you're a runner and you understand and, and the marathon concept. And, and for the listeners, I thought the phone year would. Be exactly like a marathon, right? Like the first few miles. So easy and doin, you're around a lot of people.
And then how it mapped out that year for me were during the winter months. And much like a marathon, like mile five to 23 are really tough because it thins out. You're sometimes you're on an island and then like the last few miles, it's like you can kind of like hear the finish line, see the finish line and it's kind of easy.
I thought that's how the year would go. It was actually like the last two months were probably the scariest for me. 'cause I was like, I, I had this plan of like slowly like reintroduce, 'cause it you, you go from being on it four or five hours a day to cold Turkey, to like all, how am I gonna like reintegrate myself a drone with clients?
A yeah, a hundred percent Got a funny story about that in the book too. Yeah. And so. The last few months were really like nerve wracking. And like now my mom got sick and she ended up passing away, uh, in November of that year. So there all the plans and ideas I had for, for how I was gonna come back, literally got thrown out the window because, um, about a week after I ended the journey, she ended up going to the hospital, never came home in the hospital for three months.
And so that, but but, but the, so to answer your question, it was like I went from four or five hours a day, pre year without a phone, no time on the phone. And then like 10, 12 hours a day. 'cause I'm like researching, making doctor's appointments. So it was like the high of like being on it, the low of not being on it.
And then right back high of like yeah, scheduling these appointments and like, being like on it. So I didn't, I didn't really have the experience that I had planned fate that, you know, you made it to the end of that journey. Yeah. And that was when things started to go more downhill and uh, and it was like.
Perfect synchronicity of, or serendipity, whatever. Because my biggest takeaway even before the year was over was things that don't matter, don't matter. And like the subtitle of that, if that was the title of the book, is like, things that don't matter don't matter. Yet, most of us in life don't take the time to identify what truly matters.
So we waste our time chasing things that don't matter and and worrying about all this stuff. Right? And look, I'm not against the use of cell phones, whatever, like whatsoever. What I am against is regret that may or may not come for many years to come. The burdening regret of like, well, I was on my phone for six hours today.
What, what, what did I do? Like, did I get anything accomplished? And so it was, it was this perfect, like, okay, I got the lesson from the test before the test came. And it was like, okay, you say or you think that things that don't matter don't matter. Now I'm in the other situation with my mom. And that was like the epitome of like, things that don't matter.
Don't matter. Yeah. And so it was like I was practicing a year how to be present. And then I got that like PhD level of being present with my mom for those 106 days that she was sick. And that was like, that, like officiate, officiating prepared me for this stage of my life. But that year without a cell phone was preparing me to, to how to truly be present.
Especially when, when someone needs you Yeah. More than they've ever needed you before you, you know, numbers very well. I do like, like, uh, what was it? 19 words Changed your life and 106 days, your mom's journey in 2,500, whatever, you know, like all Yeah. You know numbers very well. I do. I'm, I'm impressed by that.
Okay. I like numbers. We're gonna get to the. Psychological learnings. Okay. The lessons, like, that's how we're, I think we're gonna wrap up the end of the show with Okay. What I wanna talk about is just like, what daily life without a cell phone looks like. Yeah. You know, like, I think at first, right? Like, we were talking like, what does day one look like?
You know, you're pretty excited. It's like, oh yeah. Hey guys, I'm going to here without a cell phone. Yeah. Like, not that crazy. Yeah. Then you get like, a couple months in and like, like what were, what does the week look like? Yeah. What, what changes did you have to make in your everyday life to accommodate not using a cell phone?
I'm pretty intentional planning out the week, knowing what every day is gonna be like, but being fluid enough that if something changes, like, adapt on the fly. Now, I did have my laptop during the year, but one of the things, I didn't have a flip phone. I didn't have a landline. Like I, I didn't take apps that were on my phone and put 'em my own laptop.
I needed my laptop for. For, um, virtual speaking engagements, coaching, and when I started my business, one of the things that I still do this, like, I do email once a day. It's my end of day routine. I don't have email open throughout the day. So, you know, a typical day, good for you, um, got up before the girls and I, I value that, you know, hour, hour and a half of silence and, and solitude.
And then, you know, the chaos of girls for, um, two, two young girls for a, an hour or two before they get ready for school. And then, you know, each day is like, the morning was getting ready for client calls or, or speeches, writing. Like for me, the morning time is, is my creative jam. Like that's when I do the, the most creative work.
Were you replacing scrolling time during that? With, so writing, writing, with writing, writing, that, that be, what were you writing every day? I was writing, uh, I, so I knew I was gonna write the book. The only thing I committed to when I started the year, but two things. One, I'm gonna be fully present with every single person I'm with.
So if I'm sitting down on a podcast, I know it's easy to say like, oh, I'm gonna be president, but like. Most of the time we're physically there and mentally somewhere else we're thinking about the next thing, what happened earlier in the morning, all those things. So I, my only rule for myself, I'm gonna be fully present with whoever I'm with.
Number two, I knew I wanted to write a book. The only thing I committed to the world doesn't need another productivity book. So I wasn't gonna write a book on like, how to hack your calendar and like how to be better with goals. We have those books, we don't need that. But I didn't know what the book was.
Yeah. Gonna, gonna turn into, so for me, I just wanted to be fully present and see where that would take me. Um, so writing, I was writing every day. I didn't know for what, like in what format. Um, but I just knew that it was gonna be writing. So a lot of it was like speeches. A lot of it was for the book. A lot of the, like, some of my favorite stuff that I wrote, Nate won't ever make it to the book.
It was just, it's therapeutic. It's stuff that I went through, experiences. See, uh, Tyler forwarded me maybe the intro to your newsletter. That was one of the most beautiful pieces of literature. What's that? That I've ever read in my life. Now I want to, I want to hear which one. It's, uh, it was about your mom.
Oh, okay. Um, he, he uninvited what? They don't tell you uninvited tenant. Oh yeah. That was, that was a, that was a recent one. So another thing that, that came about, I always, like when I was growing up and like in school, right? Like as a, as a man, I always thought poetry was like very feminine and like, no, I don't need to read poetry.
Someone introduced, I don't even, it was like in a coffee co. I can't even remember when or how someone was like, have you read this or heard of this? And it was a book of poetry and I'm just like, no, that sounds, no. Why would I do that? Nate? That's one of my favorite things to do. Not only read poetry, but in, in, in writing poetry too.
Um, so much. So, I mean, here we will just make the announcement now. So. I was writing all the year, every day for my book. Right? Mom gets sick and I told my publisher, I was like, Hey, I don't know when I'm gonna get back to the book. I, I just need to put that on hold. I don't know when I'm gonna get back to it.
Right? So she's sick. 106 days passes away November 24th. And as you know, as someone who's lost your mom, like there's just like, grief is a, is a weird thing, man. Yeah. It's like you anticipate the big days, but then there's like a random Tuesday where you have stuff planned and you're like, well, that's going out the window because I can't think of anything else except my mom right now.
And that's all, that's the only thing I wanna do is talk to her. Well, what I realized for like these seven or eight months, so the time while she was sick and then the grieving period after, I wasn't writing anything for the book. But I was writing poetry may probably every day, but not like maybe a finished piece.
'cause sometimes one piece might take, like uninvited tenant probably took like a week or two. So I'm actually gonna release a, uh, self-published book of poetry. Um, probably around the same time that, um, the book about the year without a cell phone. Um, because that's been one of my favorite things. So long-winded answer to what did I replace it with, writing has become like, I would say therapy, working out and writing are like the three-headed monster that helped me just get centered and, and grounded.
Some days I need a little bit more of one than the other, but poetry has just been the greatest escape for me personally, as a way to just express what gets stuck in my head sometimes, you know, writing and reading are great ways of processing. Mm-hmm. And I dunno, in the last few years I've got really into reading.
Yeah. I think actually once I started hosting a podcast, I got out of listening to podcasts. Yeah. And got more into listening to audio books. 'cause it's actually like. Because when I'm listening to someone else's podcast, I'm like, oh, picking up new tips. And it's like watching film and studying what other people are doing.
Yeah. When I listen to an audio book, it's like. I'm just learning for the heck of it. Yeah. You know, like new recommended, uh, Man's Search for Meaning. Yeah. Last week. Yeah. And I've been, I'm almost done with that. Yeah. But I got through the first half of it, which is an incredible story. I highly recommend that to anyone out there, uh, to go and, and check that out.
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Good vibes, amazing food, and amazing hospitality. Now, let's get back into it. What were things that before you went a year without a cell phone, you thought you would miss? Mm-hmm. That in reality it, it wasn't as hard as you thought. You know, when I told, I probably told, I don't know, a hundred friends and family, like, before I started this journey of like, hey, this is, this is what I'm gonna do.
And everyone's reaction or like what they thought was different, you know, one of my buddies was like, well, how are you gonna get, uh, credit or like, collect stars on your Starbucks app? I'm like, well, I'm gonna have to do what they did, you know, before 20 years ago. Stand in line. So that was one of the things that was like, a little bit frustrating.
'cause I think it's so convenient to like, order food ahead or order coffee ahead. It's like, now I gotta go stand in line. It's like, oh, what a, what a weird idea. Right. Um, but, but I think the, like one of the bigger, you didn't get any stars that entire year? I, no, no stars. No. Didn't order DoorDash once. Yeah.
Just so many things you like don't think of, like how just convenient that slot machine in our pocket is. I'll tell you one of the things that like. Really surprised me is when I told people about this, right? And there's a chapter in the book, the title of the chapter is, what if I had a Meth Problem? And I talk about, I open the chapter with, I Wish I had a Meth problem in the summer of 2023.
And I took, and this is basically word for word in the chapter, because if I would've went to my friends and family in summer of 2023 and said, Hey, I just wanna let you know, I've, I've been dealing with this serious problem. It's the first thing I pick up when I wake up in the morning. I, I look at it and touch it 200 times a day.
And it's the last thing I put down before I go to bed. But I wanna let you know, I found the world's best rehab facility and I've been accepted into the program. It's gonna be a year. One of the caveats is I have to give up my cell phone. So I won't have my cell phone for a year. You can email me, right?
And you can come visit me in person. But I'm, this is something I need to do for myself. Now, Nate, if I would've said that to my friends and family, and I talk about this in the book, my friends and family would've said. Like way to go, Tommy. Like that's so brave of you. That's like it's, that takes a lot of courage.
The only difference was I wasn't giving up meth. I was giving up my cell phone voluntarily and under my own volition and people looked at me like I had three heads. They're like, wait, you're voluntarily giving up your cell phone. But I think the bigger like thing with that is something is not a problem until society labels it.
Because if I would've walked in this studio and instead of my hot tea, it was like a half bottle of Tito's, I'm pretty sure you guys would've been like, you might not have said something, but in the back of your mind you're like, this dude's got a problem. Or if I would've walked in here, uh, or like you saw me walking up and down Broad Ripple Avenue and I was holding that same bottle, you'd been like, okay.
I saw him in my podcast doing that. Now he's like walking in the street and or if you saw me like walking into my girl's soccer game, you probably would've said something. But yet we do all of those things without a Tito's bottle and it's our cell phone and nobody bats an eye. Nobody says what word?
Because it's not a problem in society and something doesn't become a problem until society labels it. But cell phone usage and over usage are so like laissez-faire. It's just like that's just accepted. Yeah. That it's not a problem. What are the things that you found cell phone usage good for? And where are the times that you feel like, oh gosh, it's just sucking you in?
So I asked him when he told me this early on, if I could use it in the book. And he was like, yeah, we as a, as a society, we are bored being bored and the cell phone has become the adult pacifier because when you have a baby and they're hungry, they're tired, they're crying, you don't even know what's wrong with them.
You stick a pacifier in their mouth and it gets rid of it, dude. For adults or kids or anyone, if we don't wanna have a conversation with someone, we're standing in line waiting for our coffee. We're waiting for someone to meet us. At breakfast, we, the, you, the list goes on a, we just pull out the adult pacifier.
Yeah. Dude, I have pretty strong willpower, I would say, like relative to the human society and it really challenges me. Like I have to be so intentional. Yeah. When I'm waiting in a line of like, Hey, I'm not gonna pull out my phone right now. Yeah. And I'm just gonna observe my surroundings. Uh, one of the things, um, that I started doing a little bit before and now more so after, is like anytime walking into a coffee shop or a meeting, I just leave it in.
Usually in the car, but at least in my bag so that just for 30 seconds I'm gonna have 30 seconds of awareness and just observe my surroundings and just be there because we have to look for these micro opportunities to increase our awareness. And it's, it's not gonna just come in a big flash. It's these little opportunities that you can just be present with yourself before you're gonna be present with anyone else to, of just the transfer of going from car to office or office to car, like wherever it goes.
Hey, Siri, how many times a day does the average American check their cell phone? Two oh five. Nate, I know my numbers. Oh my gosh. It's either 2 0 5 or 3 44. Once every 55 minutes. Yeah, it was in five to 10 minutes. So it's every five minutes. So the average American gets just under seven hours of sleep. And so you just look at the time that they're awake.
And all the research I've seen is 205 times a day now. Now think about that. If a stranger tapped you on the shoulder 205 times a day, you'd call Chief Bailey. Yeah, right? Like, or you're not gonna get to that point. You'd be like, dude, what are you doing? But yet we pull that thing out 205 times a day and it's like, it's no problem.
Oh man. It's scary. Yeah, scary. The, I wish I had a meth problem. That's crazy. But what's crazy about that is, and in the book and in how I explained it to you, I don't, I use a visceral image in a story to say like, 'cause I was describing meth in that, but what I was really describing was a cell phone. It was a serious problem.
Yeah. It was the first thing I touched when I woke up. Last thing I put down before bed, I touched it and looked at it a couple hundred times a day. Sometimes you have to wake up in the night and just make sure it's there. So here's something crazy. 89% of people within the first 10 minutes of waking up, 89% of people reach for their cell phone.
75% of people will respond to some sort of notification on their phone, a text, an email, a missed call, a social media notification within five minutes, 57%. Well, that's your job. 57% of people have never gone more than 24 hours without touching their phone. And 47% of people could be clinically diagnosed with depression when their cell phone battery gets below 20%.
Think about that. Dude. No behavior change happens before awareness. So if you're not even aware, you do it. Like, and, and do you even wanna, do you even wanna change, right? Like if you don't, even if it doesn't matter to you and you enjoy having three minutes of awareness throughout the day, then then don't, don't do anything.
Yeah. So is the answer, get rid of your phone completely? No. No, and that's a great question because I talk about this in the book. I don't have any. Expectations or misconceptions that anyone goes, we're all giving up our cell phones. No, no, don't do that. But I don't have any expectations that anyone will go a day, a week, a month, a year without their cell phone.
What I, and I touched on it earlier, what I am against is this burdening regret that may or may not surface for 10 or 15 years because life happens and then you look back and you're like, what did I get? And it's a very useful thing. But are you using it or is it using you? And do you even want to be on it 205 times?
Do you want to check it 200 times? I know, I don't. And so it's like you can take baby steps and I, and that's, that was the thing. I was excited with the book. Like I don't want to give someone a prescription of like, this is how you have to get better with the, the perfect analogy is if like you and I walk into Hubbard & Cravens down the street, right?
And you're holding a carton of blueberries and I'm holding a box of donuts, and let's say there's a hundred people in there and we're like, Hey. Uh, not which one tastes better, but which one of these is better for you? Long term blueberries or donuts, like, I'm fairly confident that a hundred out of a hundred people will say blueberries.
Yet our population, 75% is either obese or morbidly obese. And so one of my other takeaways was we don't have a knowing problem. We have a doing problem. People know inherently that it's not great to be on those things, but when you understand that they have PhDs on payroll that are manufacturing and building those things so that they become slot machines in our pockets, that's when it's like, okay, do you want to even do anything about it or do you just want to keep living in the matrix?
But I don't expect anyone to give up their cell phone. I do want people to be more intentional with their lives, however they go about that, and, and defining success on their own terms. So what are the biggest changes that you made? Reintroducing the cell phone back to your life after a year without it protecting that morning time.
So phone's usually on do not disturb because I, like, nobody's gonna create my life for me. No one's gonna create the future and the vision that I have up here, unless I'm really intentional in being selfish. Because before you can be selfless, you need to be selfish. And so I have to be selfish with that time.
No different than, like, if I'm on stage, I'm not gonna have my cell phone out. When I was on the referee, when I was on the court, I didn't have my cell phone out. When I'm with people, I don't have my, like at home, I'll leave my cell phone in my office and if, when I come out of the, like I'm with the girl, like I'm very intentional with who I'm, I'm with like at restaurants, I don't have it out on the table.
It's like you just have to make it through like two minutes or three minutes and like. It forces you. Oh my gosh, I love this. Like let, let's say it's date night. Yeah. And it's like I can instantly tell if I'm eng, like if I'm engaged in the conversation or not. Like if I have my phone out, it's like it just pulls you into there.
Yeah. And you're like, oh my gosh. Like blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like if you just put it away and then it forces you to ask questions and have like deep conversations. And I think that it's so powerful. One of the big takeaways to that point, like I noticed, right, like before the year without a phone, if you and I are grabbing coffee and you tell me about a book, what would I do on the spot?
I would just pull my phone out, look on Amazon, put it in my cart. Or you were like, dude, have you seen that new documentary on Netflix? Pull out my phone. Right. What I realized the going a year without my cell phone, nine outta 10 things that someone mentioned to me if I didn't write 'em down after. I didn't remember him when I got home to my computer.
So it just told me like it really wasn't that important. Right? Like we tell ourselves in the moment like, oh, I gotta know this, I gotta know this. How about you just be with the person you're with? Yeah. Just like, 'cause we've all been with that person where you're like, you walk away and you're like, like, oh my gosh.
Like I just felt different. Like, and maybe you don't even know why, but you're like that person, like yeah, they listened to understand and not reply. They were deep in the conversation. They didn't have something teed up. They just were like leaning into certain questions. Like, those are the experiences. I want to create more of those.
Dude, I feel like that is a, the art of the conversation. Yeah. If I was to write a book, it might be about that just like going in there and my life changed when I stopped listening or when I stopped, uh, thinking about what I was gonna say next while someone else was talking. And like, sometimes with the podcast it's like, oh, you like really wanna deliver the right line that's gonna go viral.
And I'm like. And I've had to just stop that. Yeah. It's like if we need to get that line, we can get that line or whatever. But like sitting here and just listening, digesting and then having, figuring out what you're gonna say next and going off script a lot of the time, like we have like 50 questions on here that we're just like, not gonna get to.
And that's totally fine. 'cause this is so intriguing to me. Yeah. I do wanna know what was the hardest part about going a year without a phone? The silence. It was so loud. It was very loud because we are so trained to always have noise, whether it's music, whether it's the TV in the background and yeah, I still had a TV at the house.
I still had, but the, the silence in sitting with those thoughts and you, you realize the silence doesn't lie. Silence only tells the truth. Yeah. And a lot of us aren't willing to sit with those uncomfortable questions that come up. And so for me it was like, that was the most uncomfortable part because it wasn't performing, it wasn't trying to put on a show.
It was like when you're just sitting there with a pen and, and a piece of paper and all these like, thoughts and it's like, why am I doing certain things? And like, do I really care what Nate thinks about me? Or, or this? And it's like, no, because 30 seconds later, like Nate's onto his next thing and worrying about the next thing.
So for me, like the biggest, the hardest thing was, was just sitting in the silence. If there was a habit that you picked up during your year without a cell phone that the world should have, what would that be? Writing. It's easier when, like, when you own your own business, you can like create time, like for someone that has a nine to five mm-hmm.
And, and doesn't know how to start, like, I think I've tried like seven different writing exercises. Mm-hmm. And I just like, I just sit there with a blowing piece of paper and I don't know what to do. A, a great man, I've read this book years ago. It's something I still do. Um, the book is called The Artist's Way, um, and an exercise that she, and, and Julia Cameron, I believe is the author she talks about, like, we're all inherently by nature creative people, but at some point, whether we, when we were kids or something, someone told us like, Nate, you can't sing.
Like you're off tune and then you stop singing. Or I did. I didn't get, I didn't get invited to the talent show in second grade. Yeah. So then they made me the host when I was in third grade. 'cause I gave up singing. Yeah. Now it's one of my biggest regrets. I wish I would've learned how to sing. It's not too late.
But one of the exercises that she has is called Morning Pages. And the, the idea is that every morning you just write three pages. Just, just write. And sometimes it's like, I'm stuck right now. I can't think of what to write. So maybe just start with one page. Yeah. And it's just a great way to get out of your own head.
Dude, this was one of my, like, what could have been the greatest idea that ended up being a big failure and then came back to be a great idea? Okay. Uh, when my mom was diagnosed with cancer, I got her a journal. Mm-hmm. And I gave it to her and I was so excited. I was like, this is gonna be, uh, well, and it was kinda like, once we knew that it was terminal and that cancer was at some point in her life going to mm-hmm.
Take her life. Yeah. I gave her this journal and I was like, write all of all of the wisdom that you have. You know, like, this is your manifesto. And then after she passed, I, uh, I looked through it and I don't know, imagine if someone gave you a journal and just said, tell me about your life. Mm-hmm. Like, tell me everything, tell me the secrets.
Where would you start? And so like there were moments, like we had spaghetti for dinner last night and it was pretty good. And like they were just, it wasn't this prophetic thing that I had been looking for. Mm-hmm. It was, and it just showed me that like, oh, maybe I should have just sat there and asked those questions to her instead.
Yeah. Instead of expecting her to read my mind of like knowing her single greatest piece for being a parent or like, you know, like all these things. I was like, oh yeah, that's like what I would want to know. I gave her this blank slate and then I didn't get what I was hoping to get out of it because I didn't just sit there and have the conversation and like just ask those things in person.
And I think. Those big revelations probably would come out in just a normal conversation. And sometimes it, nothing might come out of it. It might just be a Tuesday night conversation that's for two or three hours. Yeah. So you know what I did? What'd you do? So with my grandma? Yeah. So my grandma outlived my mom.
Um, she passed away a few years back, but I created 52 questions that I was very curious. It was like, and I know there's like companies now that do this. Yeah. That was one of my, oh man, I like OG ideas. I had all these different, oh, we had like memory bank.com. We had the whole thing rolling. We did it for my grandma.
It would, I gave her a different question every single week and it would document, um, you know, just questions that I had for, but then the difference was, is that I would see it and I would talk about it with her. Hmm. And I would like, those were, they were, she would write, but it became discussion topics.
Yeah. And our bond over her last seven years after my mom passed were, was just like, that's awesome. This was great, dude. Yeah. And so by ha by creating that place, like I would go in there and I would just sit with her. Yeah. And we would discuss. What was it like when her family got their first automobile?
Which is a wild thing to think about, but I don't know how many grandkids out there have never asked their grandparent that. I was like, and on service level, she was just a farmer's wife in northern Indiana. Like that's the stereotype. Yeah. I learned that she had gone to college for a year to get, uh, to take an accounting class.
You didn't have to be, or a bookkeeping class. You didn't have to get a degree. You could just take a class and then get a job. So she became a bookkeeper. She went on a cross country train or cross country train trip to, uh, South Dakota and back, like all these crazy adventure. She worked in a factory during World War II and made the little tubes that helped radio communication on airplanes.
I learned all these crazy things about her just 'cause I like we, I gave her these questions and then it prompted these discussions. That's really cool. And, and that was where I learned how to like, ask questions to people. Yeah. Was by sitting with my time, like 92, 90 4-year-old grandma. And just like it was either watch Jeopardy in silence or have conversations.
So like we learned how to talk and I think that like, yeah, getting disconnected from the cell phone and like putting whoever you are. What, and I think that all people are like, oh, kids don't, and it's like, it's adults too. They're learning it somewhere. Yeah. Like when was the last time you sat there? Okay, this is gonna be a weird pull.
Let's do it. Okay. If you, one of the greatest pieces of like modern media is Theo Von interviewing the rzr, who's like a 10-year-old kid. Do you know the Rizzler? I know the Rizzler. He's like a social media guy. But like when was the last time a 10-year-old had an hour long conversation with an adult and like was able to talk about different things and when was the last time an adult really like put themselves on the same level as a 10-year-old and was able to like have that kind like ask a 10-year-old.
Like, you always ask like, what are the classic questions? Like how was your day? What's your favorite class in school? And they say, lunch, maybe gym. And it's like the same five things. And it's like, how do you actually like. Ask questions that are gonna prompt you more than one word answers. And I do this to a lot to people too.
Yeah. If like, if I ask them question like, man, what's been giving you energy? Or whatever, and they're like, something small, like, and if it's a one word answer Yeah. I'm like, oh, so we're doing, we're doing one word answers. That's the level that we're on. And it kind of like shocks people sometimes and they're like, oh, oh, uh uh.
And it's like, yeah, let's have a real discussion here. Let's talk. That's, that's my favorite question to ask people, what are you most excited about in the next six to 12 months? That's a very telling question about what someone's doing. And it doesn't have to be, I just wrote a book. What? It's just, what are you excited about?
Because I think it's a universal truth that humans not only like to talk about themselves, but they like, they, they genuinely like when someone is interested in what they have to say in their story, whatever. Um, quick side note, the two questions I ask. My 6-year-old every day after school, 4-year-old, not so much yet, but number one, tell me about one time that you helped a friend today.
Could be anything holding a door done. Like, tell me one, and then number two, tell me about a mistake you made. I got that from Sara Blakely, um, because her dad, every night at the dinner table used to ask her like, gimme one failure. But I, I, what I really want to instill in the girls is like, be kind, make mistakes.
Failure is is okay, but be kind. Every single day I go do something, be kind, and then two, make mistakes. That's how we grow. That's how we get better. Um, but you're right. It's like even to your point about Theo, how many parents have had an hour long conversation with their 10-year-old, let alone just some social media kid?
Like, when's the last time you had an hour long conversation with your kid? Yeah. Yeah. And like found what, like what makes a 10-year-old tick? Yeah. Like, I think that is, I, I don't know. I, I just thought that on the service level you're like, this is stupid. Why would I listen to it? And then you're like, wow, he got a 10-year-old to talk for like an hour.
Like that's crazy. Yeah. It's wild. If there were. Recommendations, Uhhuh changes. Obviously, you know, you said this isn't a self-help book. Yep. This isn't like productivity book. Yep. But if there were just the most impactful lessons that you have from spending a year without a cell phone, what would those be?
Time is never the issue. Priorities are. Mm-hmm. So a lot of times we'll tell ourselves I don't have time this, I don't have time for this or that. And even when I used to coach executives, like who are uber busy running a hundred million dollar companies, time is usually never the, never the issue. It's your priorities and getting crystal clear on that.
So I would just, just from that standpoint, if that was the only thing you took away from the book of like, whatever you're doing, whether it's your job or whatever, like is that even something that you wanna do? And you know, the biggest pushback I got was like, people were like, oh, it must be nice to go to year without a phone.
I'm like, well, we can get into a deep conversation because anyone can do that. Well, I, I can't because of my job. Okay, well then you just really enjoy providing for your family and you enjoy the com. And I don't have anything against that, but usually it was a conversation of like, you can't do that or you don't want to.
Two different things. Um, so number one, the, the time and, and clarity. Number two, a lot of times people are chasing something that if you were to peel back the onions and the layers, that's not even what they wanna be doing. Whether it's success or they're chasing a career because their parents did it or their siblings did it, or fraternity brothers or, you know, sorority sisters are doing, like, too often people are chasing something in life that they don't wanna be doing, but they're scared of, well what's, what's Dink gonna think about me if I give this nine to five up and chase.
Yeah, he's not gonna care. Oh, dude. The, I, I got that, I got over that really quickly when it came to like, um, starting businesses or whatever. Like, dude, I've started shut down. Like, I don't, people can think I'm a failure. I just had to wait. And he like keep, like getting the reps in. Yeah. That's all. It's like.
And I think that what's this, there's like this advice where it's like, at a certain stage you're worried that people aren't gonna like, like you or think about you and, and it gets like, basically goes along along and you then you realize when you're old that like, nobody cares. No one, no one thought about you at all.
Ever. It's like, I don't want them to think negatively of me. It's like, oh, I wonder if they're thinking about me. And in the end you realize they never thought about it at all. No, nobody's thinking about you as much the Yeah. As you are. We think that, oh my gosh, we have such an issue with thinking that people think about us way more than they actually do.
Yeah. And who cares? Yeah. You only get to do this thing once. You might as well enjoy it and do something that you want to do. Yeah. And, and I would say this too, like the answer is I don't necessarily know if the answer is go 365 days without a phone. But like, you have to do the crazy thing to help people discover the just like normal thing.
Yeah. Like, I like, I'll, I'll give an example. It's like with, even from social media, it's like, why did I eat four tenderloins in a day to convince you to go out and have one tenderloin for dinner. Yeah. Why did I run the entire moment on trail to convince you to take your baby and your stroller out on a 5K.
Yeah. Why'd you go 365 to maybe show people that seven hours of screen time a day is not good? Yeah. It's like, Hey, you don't have to give it up completely, but maybe it's like we go eight to eight. Yeah. No phone half the time. Would that, would that kill anybody? Right. Would that really impact their jobs?
And then it goes to the question is like, is it that you can't do it or do you not want to do it? That's right. To to, it's hard. It's, yeah. But nothing great in life has ever been achieved by doing something easy. So, man, go do crazy things. What final advice would you have for people to be more intentional with their time?
To be more intentional with the relationships that they're building? And you're right, like we only got one shot at this thing. Yeah. Well, I would say that the short answer is that that phone, that screen is, is not gonna love you back. That phone's not gonna be there for you when your mom passes away.
That phone is not gonna be there when you hit 1 billion downloads on your podcast. The, the people in your close circle are gonna be the ones that are there at the funerals, at the weddings, at the celebrations, at dinner on Tuesday. The more that you can be fully present with the people in your life that matter, that's what matters.
And the more that you can use the phone as a tool and not let it use you, a hundred percent convinced there's a direct correlation that your happiness and not giving a rat's behind about what other people think because you just realize like, as great as it is, it's, it's nothing more than a tool. And unless you're a carpenter, you're not like carrying your hammer around just like enthralled with it.
It's just like, no, it's just a tool. Some days I need a screwdriver, some days I need a hammer. Cell phone's just a tool, so treat it like one and not like it's your prize possession. Yeah, man, that's crazy. That's a, that's just a, just a wild time because I think my cell included think that there are days that you just can't live without it.
It's like, oh my God. Like, it's a story. We tell ourselves, what's, what's the stat? Like 85% of people don't believe they could go a day without their phone. 24 hours, 57% have never gone without touching or looking at it. More than 24 hours Wow. Have never gone 24 hours. Wow. Okay. That's, that was the stat. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. We've come to apart of the show where we're switching gears a little bit. We're gonna talk all things Indiana as we wrap out. Yeah. Yep. This question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond.
Check them out at homeisjchart.com. My question for you, Tommy, why do you call Indiana home? In one word, Indiana is now a complete sentence. Indiana period. I think for so long you had to justify it or give a reason of like, well, Indiana's great because it's like we don't need any more disclaimers.
Indiana is Indiana and we can stand on its own. We don't need anything else because of this. Um, but for me it's all four seasons. The, the people, we don't just produce great basketball players. These are people that the work is the spotlight. We don't need the, the recognition or the notoriety. And to me in that's why Indiana is home for me.
I love that one. The work is the spotlight baby. Yeah. Okay. We've come to some rapid fire questions we're gonna talk about. What was the first app you used when you turned your phone back on after you got off air? Probably LinkedIn, if I had to guess. I can't even go, I don't even know. Ghost, ghost 365 without a phone and immediately has to check his connection request.
Yeah. Yes. Who was looking for me over this last year? Who I honestly don't know. That would be an A good Who viewed my profile. Yeah, that's right. Um, what was the app you were the most excited to have back after a year without a cell phone workout app that I have called the Ladder? Um, it's just got pre-programmed workouts.
That was, that was the one that I was probably, yeah. Most excited to get back to. What if you could delete one app and never have it on your phone ever again? What would it be? Well, I already did. I don't have email on my phone. So when I started my business, because I lived by email when I was an official, so when I started my own business, I said, this is a non-negotiable.
Yeah. Um, I'm not gonna have email on my phone, so I don't have Outlook on my phone. What was the hardest app to give up? Like what app in your phone made it the hardest? I would just say for convenience, Starbucks and I don't even really like the coffee. It's just, they're everywhere. So it's super convenient.
When I travel, I don't know, like texting and calling. Oh, is that an app? Okay. Then I would say probably texting those. Okay. Yeah, like texting. We go texting. I feel like, I don't know, I could, I could do with some time of just having a texter and a caller. Yeah. Maybe just a caller really For like Sundays calls only.
Yeah. Maybe onto something there. Yeah. Uh, how long did it take before you stopped reaching for your pocket bleeding? I would say probably like a month. So like after a month? Yeah. You just realize like, it's not there. It's not because I reached for it the first day to take a picture of the girls playing in the yard.
It's just, it's like a Did you get like a Polaroid camera? No, I should have. That would've been, it would've been fun. That would've been kind of cool. What's one thing that you miss about the year without a cell phone? Like, what's one thing that you wish you could, so this is kind of a deep answer. I would Get IN my car and have both ends of the spectrum.
On one end, there wasn't a single person in the world who could get ahold of me if they wanted to, and that's a pretty electric and freeing feeling. 'cause I didn't, I didn't travel with my cell phone, right. Like when I turned it off, I just left it in the office and I was only gonna turn it on in an emergency.
So I didn't like take it with me. When I took the girls to school, I didn't take it with me. When I flew to go speak, like I, it just stayed home. So on one end I could Get IN the car, nobody would know. Where I was or could get ahold of me. That's pretty like freeing. On the other side of the coin, Nate, like, it's kind of depressing 'cause it's like, what if something happens, right?
Like what if I get a flat tire? Like I'm not calling aaa, I'm gonna have to like hoof it to the closest. Yeah, it all stock. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it was like, and that was, were there ever moments like that, like in your year, was there ever a moment where you were like, you're in like a public area and something's, and you're like, why don't you just use your own phone and you're like, I I actually don't have one.
So, funny story, it was the first week I was going, uh, to get my hair cut. I think it was like day like four, right? So I walk in and this young girl, she had to have been like early twenties. She just has this look of like, she's like, oh my gosh, Tommy. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I've been trying to call and text you, Molly.
The, the girl that used to cut my hair is sick and um, we just wanted to let you know. And I was like, in that moment, I'm like, do I tell her that I don't have a phone? And I'm like, well, she even understand what that means. So I was just like, oh, no problem. I was like, can I reschedule? So reschedule two days later, walk in.
Uh, two days later, same girl, same luck. And I'm like, oh no. And she's like, Tommy, I'm so sorry. I've been trying to call and text you. And I'm like, now I'm like, I've already got this going for 48 hours. Do I tell her now or do I just like, let it ride? And she's like, same thing. Molly's still sick. You know, we have to reschedule to Saturday.
So it's kind of funny, in the first week I had three haircuts scheduled in like 72 hours. Uh, and you're like, this is gonna be a long year. And I was just like, yeah. I was like, I'm just gonna let it ride. I didn't, I didn't tell her in the moment. Wow. So that was kinda like one of the funny things of like, yeah, not, I just like, imagine like, let's say there's like a cat stuck in a tree and you're there and someone's like, you call 9 1 1.
You're like, get me, me. Can't do it. Another example, uh, dog. Had ACL surgery. So I'm walking in for like, the pre-consult meeting and the surgeon just like walks in. Great guy, Dr. James over at VCA gave him a shout out. First thing he says is like, Hey, pull out your cell phone and record this. 'cause this is gonna be like a 35 minute conversation, um, about just like the whole procedure and take home.
And I'm like, well, Dr. James, funny you say that. Uh, I don't have a cell phone. And that actually Nate was like one of the coolest conver, like, we talked for like an hour just about life. He's got four, I think three or four kids. And just like having a cell phone, not having like that, those ended up being some like my favorite conversations of just, yeah, because I, I do think it's something that everyone kind of like wishes they could do a little bit.
Yeah. Like I think that everyone could be, everybody would be happier. Yeah. Could be. Okay. Yeah. Without having meth in their pocket, you know. Did you pick up any new hobbies in your year without a cell phone? I would say writing. Like I ne like hated writing. Okay. Never did. Besides writing solo walks, solo walks, solo walks.
Didn't know you had like, woodwork in your bird watching or something? No, writing is writing. It's kind of my gym and solo. Solo walks. Go out for like an hour, no phone. I still do that now. Like, just leave the phone in the car and just go. Oh, okay. I always have a notebook with me, but, uh, so, so besides yours, is there another book that people should read that would convince them to give up their phone?
It's funny how I look back of like the last two books I read and then the idea came to me. So the last two books I read in the summer of 2023, Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport and the The The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer. Yep. Um, both phenomenal books. And it is like, I don't think it's a coincidence that I read those two and like within a week, like had the idea.
So those, both of those books are, are great books. Wow. Crazy. Yeah. Uh, obviously your book is coming out in January. In January. Uh, where are people gonna be able to get it? Where can people find you? Where can people learn more about. Everything that you're doing. Yeah. Website is tommyshort.com and then all the social is TommyShort86.
Kind of mentioned the number with, um, my NBA tryout, um, book will be on Amazon, Barnes & Noble anywhere. You can, can we pre-order? Uh, yeah. We haven't got that yet from the publisher, but yeah, we'll be able to pre-order that. All right. We'll have links down in the show notes. Yeah. Appreciate it. Yeah, of course, man.
These are the same three questions that we ask every guest who comes on the show. Oh yeah. Are you prepared? I am, of course. First question. Come on. I did my homework. Come on, let's go. 22-year-old self. Let's go. Oh no, we don't do that anymore. We pulled that one new sponsor. We pulled that one. No war fellowship.
Okay. No war fellow. We still love war fellowship. We love war fellowship. Yeah, we do. Uh, JC Hart is replaced That one. Got it. So now we have, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana? It's just there's hardworking people. We're gonna put in the work. We don't, we don't need the spotlight. And Indiana is a destination in and of itself.
We don't need to give prerequisites or, well, Indiana's great because no, Indiana is just great. You can drop the, because now. Indiana is great. I love that. You know how to prove it to anybody. That's right. Okay. Next. This is where you can help us uncover, shed some light on a place in Indiana that more people need to know about.
What is a hidden gem in Indiana? Ambrosia Italian Restaurant? Um, yeah. Gino Pizzi. Um, Gino Pizzi's mom started it way back in the day and now Good buddy. Daniel Cage. He's running it, um, in, in the Ambrosia Hospitality Group, but a lot of great memories there. Had a surprise party there.
Engagement party there. It's, it's my go-to spot. So Ambrosia on College. I love that spot. That's got good, they have good food. Great food. Very, very good food. It's a great, if you need a date night spot in the, what is that? It's like Kessler and College. Yeah. Right on the corner.
It's great. They also, they do Mochi Joy. Yep. They also do the Commodore and Josephine Special Josephine. That's French. Yep. Ambrosia Hospitality Group. Yeah. Daniel Cage. Check it out. Daniel Cage. All right. We'll have to get him on the po. Well, that leads us perfectly into this next question, but Dan's not my answer for this question.
Oh, sorry, Dan. Sorry, Dan. We still think you're cool, man. You're still memorable. All right, so this is how we find new guests. This is how we learn about other Hoosiers that are doing inspiring, inspiring things. Who's a Hoosier that we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things, you know him.
Um, but I wanna give him a shout out. And I, uh, asked him before. Casey Crouse. Dude, I met Casey, uh, four years ago when I ran the Monumental Marathon with Dave Neff on a whim. Uh, let's tell that story. Do you wanna hear that story? Also, shout out to Dave Neff shout out Dave Neff. I was, if I could say two, I would say Dave Neff and Casey Crouse.
So if anyone hasn't checked it out, he just launched a new partner. Dave just launched a new podcast in partnership with IBJ Media Network. It's called Talent Scout. Yep. He's bringing on young leaders, talking about, I mean, very, very impactful things here in the state of Indiana. Absolutely. Uh, he's been putting out clips on Instagram.
Yeah. You need to go check out IBJ Media. Check out Dave Neff. They're doing great stuff. Yeah. How you met Dave? Yeah. And, and how you guys built a, a pretty deep bond pretty quickly. Yeah. Can you tell that story? Okay. So Dave and I are having breakfast at Patachou and in the, and this is four years ago in the conversation.
At the end of breakfast, he just casually drops that he's doing the monumental marathon in like five weeks. And I was like, oh, cool. You know, as someone that's done a handful before, I was like, Dave, who are you doing it with? And he was like, oh, I'm just doing it by myself. Why? Just kind of file that away.
'cause I'm like, nobody should be doing their first marathon solo. So go home that night, had a cell phone four years ago, so go on monumental, uh, marathon website. Sign up, take a screenshot and text him. He probably thought I was. Psychopath. And I'm like, Dave. 'cause we had just met like six hours earlier or 12 hours earlier at breakfast.
I'm like, Dave, you're not running alone. I took a screenshot of like, my registration and I said, I only have one rule you will finish. I have no time goal, but if I have to carry you, kick you or put you on my back, whatever, like you will finish. And Dave's like, are are you serious? And I'm like, yeah, back to my, like, I'm in.
And then we'll figure out how to do it. I wasn't training. I, I was in decent shape from officiating, but I'm like, no, you're not gonna do that solo. Like, there's gonna be some mental people need roadblocks, more people need quick friends like that. That's right. And so and so just while we were running and leading up to, he is like, yeah, Casey Crouse like put this training program together.
And I'm like, never heard Casey's name before. And then Casey joined us probably like the last a hundred yards. But, so that's the Dave Neff story. So Casey, who I wanna shout out, loved Casey for many reasons, but just recently he went all in on his non-profit that he founded New Shoe Day. Um, and so anytime someone's willing to.
Put all the chips in bet on themselves. Someone like you, someone like myself, dude, but for him it's even wilder. Yeah. So the, the backstory as you know, he runs a thousand miles during COVID, gets people to run 10 miles a day with him, and from there creates new shoe day as a, as a nonprofit. And they, they get a mission that they want to bring new shoes to impoverished kids all across, uh, the city.
And you know, it's that feeling of like that new shoe day when you get the new pair of shoes. Yeah. It's like empowering. And so just recently left his, uh, full-time career and he's gonna go all in and I have no doubt that he is gonna end shoe insecurity in the state. And he's on a big mission and I couldn't be prouder.
To have him as a buddy, as a friend. Oh, absolutely. I love Casey. And anyone out there that's like, okay. Like there are people, uh, like our friend Martha Hoover, there are other like restaurateurs that are working on food insecurity. And I think when people hear shoes they're like, what? Like, yeah. Like is shoes the most important thing we can do for kids?
I would charge you to think back to when you were in seventh grade. Yep. And you got a new pair of shoes before gym class. Oh. And when you lace those puppies up and just how it made you feel and the swagger and the confidence and all the things that go into a new pair of shoes, it's so much deeper than just being able to like, go out and run a mile or play at recess.
It's, there is just this psychology behind. It's powerful. Like, like look good, feel good, play good. Yeah. The whole nine yards. Getting a fresh pair of shoes and you just like, you just get some pep in your step. I'm so pumped for Casey. Yeah. That's a heck of a pull. He's actually gonna be a, a guest coming up on the show.
Dope. I can't wait to dive into that. He's a great friend of mine as well. Yep. Um, and I feel like, yeah. Between you Nev and Casey, just like, just guys that are, that are doing the thing. And I would also say Casey's got three kids. Yep. Wife. And like to, to leave your career. To go all in on your nonprofit.
Yeah. Like that. Do I get chills? Like I'm Takes like to have proud of, have the true heart of a servant. Yeah. Like the true heart of someone who just wants to make the world a better place. Who just wants to make central Indiana the best place possible. It's like at the end of the day, like, you know, this, hopefully this book is a New York Times bestseller.
It's like there's a lot of financial incentives there. Oh yeah. For to gain. It's not necessarily like, for sure the goal is to raise all this money to make the biggest impact possible. Like to be motivated by that. Like, kudos to my friend Casey Crouse. Absolutely. He's the heck of a man. And, uh, and I'm really excited.
You guys are gonna love that episode. So, Tommy man, thanks for coming on the show. One more time, if people want to, one, if they wanna find out where they can buy the book. Two, they wanna connect with you and follow along with your journey. Yep. And see maybe there's some new fun challenges coming along.
Where can they do that at? Yeah, so tommyshort.com website. All the socials the same. TommyShort86. And the book. Amazon, Barnes & Noble. Wherever you, uh, does anyone I might be in the minority. Does anyone buy a book at a bookstore? I love brick and mortar. I have, uh, I have, since I got into reading, I have never gone to a bookstore.
You're missing out. I'm on all Is there gonna be an audio book? Yeah. I'm gonna read it. Should, should we record the audio book? I, another Hidden Gym? Just independent bookstores. I love just randomly stopping in there. Shout out to all the independent bookstores out there. Let's go. Yeah, go support the bookstores.
Uh, I love it, man. All right, well, we'll be looking for, make sure you pick up your copy of The Call I Almost Missed, it's gonna be on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all those places. I think that, that it can be, I love the fact that it's not just another productivity self-help book and that it can really make, uh, just like an, an impact in how we carry ourselves.
And it's not necessarily telling you to give up your cell phone. Nope. But there's gonna be a lot of fun lessons. I'm excited for people to read it. Heck yeah, man. I'm excited to read it. Alright, we'll talk to you soon. Thanks Nate. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater.
If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state. Make sure you follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hoosier State great. We'll see you next time here on Get IN.
