You know, don't get into analysis paralysis. There's always a better house. There's always a better market to find good enough and move and go winning when, when you're an entrepreneur, it's just a little more fun. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's just a little more fun. What? So if something doesn't go right, yeah.
Or if there is a change, you're super transparent about what needs to happen and then you go make it right. Who is winning and why are they winning? And what can small business owners do to help set themselves apart and win?
From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between. This is Get IN, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Every child deserves to wake up and feel the magic of Christmas morning.
With your help, we can ensure that every family in The Salvation Army's Angel Tree program doesn't have to worry about providing gifts to their kids. It's super easy. Go on The Salvation Army's website. Look at the Angel Tree Program. You can filter it by age, gender, what the kids are looking for. For right around a hundred dollars, you can provide Christmas.
For a local child in our community, the team at Get Indiana is sponsoring two kids. We're buying a bike for one of them. We're buying an RC car for another. We're gonna spend just over a hundred dollars on each of these kids, and we're gonna help make an impact in our local community. These families in our local community need our help.
You go on The Salvation Army's website, look for the Angel Tree program for around a hundred dollars, you can help make sure that children in Indiana have the magic of Christmas underneath their tree. My guest today is Nick Giulioni. He went from working in e-commerce sales at Facebook to building a multimillion dollar real estate portfolio right here in Indiana.
Nick is the founder of Off Leash Construction, their company that specializes in construction management services. He is a California transplant turned Hoosier. He's passionate about real estate teaching and spending time with his wife, Diane, and their dog's captain and Gus. Nailed it. And ladies and gentlemen, I am joined in studio with a very, very special co-host.
Dear friend and mentor of mine, Dan Hanrahan, founder of Neighbor Serve. Dan, what's up? Hey, what's up Nate? Great to be here, Nick. What's up man? I love that energy. Let's go boys. We are. This is gonna be a fun episode. I'm gonna plant the seed. Right now we are talking to someone who uprooted his California dreaming life and became a Midwest Hoosier tenderloin-eating.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Indiana. Indiana, man, come on. Uh, I'm really, really excited. I'm really excited to dive into learning about that, that transition. I think that there's a big piece of Midwest and West Coast are kind of like on opposite ends of the spectrum. You know, like not a lot of, uh, people are willing to uproot and come and, you know, move from California to Indiana.
So I'm excited to dive in there. But the story starts the, the world where I wanna start this story is. You were working in e-commerce sales at Facebook. Yeah. Uh, if anyone, maybe you've heard it, you're probably watching this video on that platform right now. Talk to us about how you ended up going from like, working in big tech and what was your first exposure to Indiana from there?
Yeah. There's really no excuse for me to be here in Indiana. If you really look back at my history, it has been just an absolute lucky set of events that have gotten me here. Um, I went to to USC and uh, you know, met my wife there at USC, had a, a wonderful start to, to my career. Ended up at Facebook, but had begun investing in real estate out here, uh, a couple years before that point, simply because I had such a bad boss that, you know, threatened my job and I knew if that ever happened again.
I needed to have the flexibility to While you were at Facebook? No, this is it. Just one, one job prior to Facebook. Okay. So you were kinda making West Coast money, let's assume. Good money. I wouldn't say it was excellent money. Um, but my wife and I had just gotten married and, uh, had my job. Publicly threatened in front of a, a bunch of people.
And like I said, I, I knew if that ever happened again, I needed to have the flexibility to, to walk out the door on my own terms. You know, at that point we had just purchased our first home in, it was a dump. It was absolute terrible, terrible house, uh, that was falling down, trying to kill us. Give us like how many bedrooms, how many bathrooms?
Uh, I think it was like a four, two, if I remember correctly. Four, two, like 1600 square feet. And where was it? It was in Laguna Hills, which is, uh, kind of Orange County area. And it cost us $650,000 for this dump. Oh man. And, um, I knew in that moment that, all right, I can't invest in real estate out here in California.
'cause I, I can't put that kind of down payment down again. And so I began looking around the country and, uh, was looking at a variety of different factors, you know, how, how quickly it was growing, uh, the political climate of that particular area. Uh, rent to value ratios, a lot of factors went into it. And Indiana was a, a natural choice.
And what happened to be the case was that I actually had some very distant relatives out here that I never really got to see all that often, but they could kind of keep an eye on things for me as well. There's some Giulioni, Hoosiers, uh, you know what, they're not Giulioni, they're hubs. Okay. But, uh, but they're out here.
Yeah. So, but what, so was it because of the, the distant family that like finalized Indiana or what were you, you talked about a few of those factors. Yeah. But where were you finding, like you just Google like. Cheap places to buy real estate. I mean, you're, you're not too far off. Uh, I was listening to a lot of podcasts, not dissimilar from this one, uh, BiggerPockets.
There were a couple others as well. What year is this? Uh, this is back in 2016 or 2017. Okay. So BiggerPockets was like the hottest thing in real estate. It was the only thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so, uh, I was listening to a lot of that stuff, and this was one of those, those top markets. It was like this Birmingham, uh, and a couple other markets.
And yeah, having my family out here was, uh, was a factor. And then the other one is like, Indianapolis is a much cooler place to visit than Birmingham, Alabama, in my mind. And so I was like, all right, I get to see family and I get to invest in some real estate. That it, it just kind of made sense. Okay, so then that's 2016 time.
Yeah. 2017, I think is when I pulled the trigger and actually bought the first one. So you buy a hou, where, where is the property? Uh, 1 5 0 5 North Leland. Was that first property? I, I don't own it anymore. Okay. Uh, so you guys can look it all up. I think I bought it for about $70,000, $75,000. It was renting out for $750 a month.
It was an absolute banger of a deal. When you compare it to what I could have gotten in California, so that's a, well, you know, about a 1%, uh, rent to value ratio in California. My house that, uh, I was living in would've rented for like 2020 500, and I had to buy it for $650,000. Yeah. So, uh, the, the math just made so much more sense out here.
The math, maths in Indiana. Yeah. Right. Especially when you're, what, you're two blocks away from the pride of the East Side Scecina Memorial High School. Right. Come on now. Yeah. Okay. So you're living in California? Yeah. When do you end up going to work at Facebook? That was, uh, I believe in 2019 is when I started working at Facebook.
And like growing up in, you grew up in California? Yep. Southern California. Okay, so, so Cal. Like was working at Facebook, like the dream Oh my gosh. Which it was. It's like Lily for us here, I feel like some people like really fantasize, like going to work at corporate, not Dan. Of course. Yeah. No, definitely.
They don't want me. Uh, it definitely is a dream, uh, like anytime you get to go work at one of the FAANG companies, like it's, it's something that's definitely looked out pos positively. For sure. What I will tell you is that the timing was a little funky. Uh, Facebook wasn't necessarily the most popular company at that point in time.
There was a lot of stuff around the, the Cambridge Analytica and all that stuff. Yeah. And, um, and, and so it was definitely a little bit of a, a fraught situation that said, I was involved in a team that was completely different than, than all that side. I got to be in charge of oculus.com, which is like the coolest division at the company.
You know, it's the, the VR product that you put on your head, which, which is huge now. Yeah, right. Yeah. Like what you went there in 2019. Yep. So I think, I feel like it was still like, when was the acquisition? Uh, oh. I, oh man. Well before my time there, but, uh, I, when I moved, went in there, uh, we actually launched the Oculus Quest 2, which was like the first mainstream, like really ready for, uh, for users to actually, to buy that thing.
And so it was, it was pretty cool. Was Palmer Luckey still at the company when you were He was not? Uh, no. I think he got fired shortly after he, he drove a tank to the office, if I'm not mistaken. Dude, what a, yeah, that's a move. We'll be whooped. Just, we'll just plug the listeners, like go look into this guy.
He now is the defense company, Anduril, which is like multi billion. Yeah. Just a crazy story. But he was the original inventor of, and I think Facebook acquired it when he was like, 18. 18. Yeah. Something silly. Yeah. Like it was, no, and, but he was just like, uh, he's like an evil scientist. Oh yeah. Like, he's not boring.
I'm glad he is on our team. Amen. Yeah. Glad he's on our So you're working on oculus.com? Yeah. What does that mean? Like you are working on bringing that headset that's now popularized. How many units a year were you guys selling when you were going through there? Oh, millions. Oh, it was already big. Oh, yeah.
No, it was, it was not a small thing. And so, uh, I was responsible for the, the merchandising on oculus.com and so I had to, to work to, to make sure that all of our programs got launched, all that stuff. It was, it was a pretty freaking cool job. That's awesome. Let me tell you, uh, working at Facebook is one of the coolest experiences.
It's like Disneyland. It literally is designed by Disney and Imagineers that campus. They have, I wanna say it's either 13 or 14 restaurants on campus, all a hundred percent free. I gained 15 pounds in my first, like two months there. It was absolutely absurd, dude. Yeah. It was amazing. I could not, yeah. Well, here at the, again, Indiana Global Airport, we have free water in the fridge and every now and again with, we recently made the upgrade from Folgers Coffee to like we some, uh, cafe Ello.
Yeah. The boys were a little upset about the coffee choices here. So where are the, uh, job openings? Where can I, where can I sign up? You know what, if you want water and coffee, we got you here. Yeah. Um, okay, so you're working at Facebook, you're, I mean, a Southern Californian guy. Yeah. Are you living up in, that's in, up in the Bay Area that time?
Yeah. What's the, uh, oh, I was living in Santa Clara. Um, I can't even remember where the office was. I, the, the other like, absolutely crazy thing is, uh, they have like buses that just drive all around campus or all around, uh, the entire like Bay Area and pick up Facebook employees and take you to campus.
And these are like charter buses, like, so I don't even know. I never had to drive to the office. Wait, crazy. Wait, what? Yeah. Wait, hold on. Could you leave or did they just keep you there so you had to keep working? Uh, you know what, they, they had buses that took you home at different That's amazing. Uh, times too.
It was bananas. It, it's, it's absurd. So you would like, like a little kid like you Yeah. You, like, let's say you had a child, you put your child on the school bus and you get on the Facebook bus. Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I walked down, they picked me up about half a block from my house. Yeah. Shut up. Yeah.
That is wild. Wild. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, you're living in California, you're working at Facebook, working on the Oculus product, like, talk about just like a lot of cool things happening. Yeah. Why do you end up deciding to move to Indiana? I had, at this point in time, you know, it's like 20, uh, 2020 and, you know, have like 60 or 70 properties out here at, at that point in time, I had a property manager go bad and do some stuff that was a little bit shady.
Then COVID hit and I got sent home. I actually, it was funny, I got sent home, uh, from Facebook before everybody else, um, before like everybody was freaking out and, um, you know, locking down and I was just kinda looking around. I'm like, Ooh, if the viral company is, is freaking out about this, we've got a a really big problem.
They know something that we don't know. Wait, why did you get sent home? So Facebook was ahead of things. Oh, they were like three weeks ahead of everybody else. Oh, so it's probably still February then. Oh, it was February, yeah. Oh, wow. And so, um, you know, my wife and I got sent home to, to work, uh, work from home.
Did your wife also work at Facebook? She was working at a, another tech company up there. Oh, okay. Um, and they followed a couple weeks later. We were just kind of sitting there in the Bay area. Uh, we lived in a 1200 square foot house. That, uh, we were paying and apparently we were getting a steal. At least that's what everybody told us.
Uh, we were paying $4,000 a month to live in this 1200 square foot to rent. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Crazy. Yeah. To rent. So we were just kinda looking around. All of our tenants had just been told, Hey guys, you actually don't need to pay your rent anymore because, you know, the, the moratorium on rent or whatever tenants out in Indiana.
Yeah. Everybody was told across the country, Hey, like, if you can't, you know, all you have to do is claim hardship and you don't need to pay rent. But do you still have to service the debt on that? Hell yeah. You do. Well, right? Yeah. Uh, yeah. And so, so you're, and you're staring at, you have 70 properties. Yeah, absolutely.
And I had a, a property manager who would just completely mismanaged and poorly trained these tenants on how to, to be responsible tenants. And so I, you know, I kind of look at my wife and, you know, oh, this, this doesn't look so good. Like, thankfully we have some reserves, we're gonna be okay. But then she looks at me and she goes, well, hey, why, why don't we just move out there for six months and, you know, get closer to the business, get control of it.
And I was like, all right, all right. That's, that's a good idea. And so, uh, actually on July 1st we take off, 'cause Facebook has basically told us you're not coming back to work this year. Right. So on July 1st, we, we pack everything up, we get in the car, drive out here with our two golden retrievers, and, uh, and we end up settling into our, um, the first place we ever lived here in, um, in Indiana, up in Fishers, literally right across the street from Fishers High School.
An amazing lot right there. Yeah. I remember as we're driving into this city, um, on July 4th, and, you know, it's, it's late, you know, we're seeing, you know, fireworks off in the distance. Right. Uh, you know, we made it in three days. I was pretty proud of us. She looks at me and she goes. Six months and not a day longer.
Oh man. It's been the longest six months of my life now. Oh, five years later. Yeah. Okay. So she, you know, you guys are in on it. You're, but it's just for six months. Yeah. Get control of the business. Was she also born and raised in California? Yep. Southern California girl. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and so then you wake up on July 5th, here in Indiana you have 70 properties and you have to figure this, like where do you, do you know anybody besides your distant great aunt?
Whoever. No. Uh, like I, I had, uh, business contacts out here. I had many agents who I'd been working with, property managers, contractors and stuff like that. But no, I have no, no friends. I've got a little bit of distant family. The other part of this though is, uh, we took COVID very seriously. My wife is severely asthmatic and so we at that point in time weren't sure kind of what the implications were gonna be.
So we just like hold up and like we were trying not to see people Yeah. As much as humanly possible. And that makes that, I feel like that, that's hard. Yeah. Move to a new place. You don't really know anyone. No. Right. You can't even have like the driveway get together that we used to always have. Right. So we, we did, you know that that property we've got in fishers did have three acres.
So we did have some, some, uh, fellow investor friends. At, in the backyard, in the distance. We were all like holding barbecues, but yeah, we, we kept our distance. It was definitely rough. Okay. Where, where did you go start to feel the sense of community or, yeah, and like, what were those early months like? Did you like it here?
Did you hate it here? Did you want to go home? Like, yeah. I'll tell you the, the moment I knew Indiana was different, we were being, you know, the most responsible COVID people in the world. Sure. We had our masks. We barely went to the store. When we did, we kept our distance. We were doing everything by the book, at least, you know, based on the c, d, C at the time.
I remember my wife freaking out and coming back home, one that day crying, and I was like, what's going on? She's like, I couldn't get people to stop trying to help me put things in my car. They just like, like three people? Yeah. Like three people came and were like trying to help her load up the car. Uh, I don't know.
There's just something about that Hoosier hospitality that just, it's, it was like the detriment at that point. Yeah. Oh my God. It totally was. But it was, it was definitely, it was different. It was special. Like what would happen if you were in California and three different people tried to help you load the groceries in your car?
Oh, no. That, that's not people trying to help you load the groceries in your car. That's three people trying to steal your groceries. It was funny, my wife was in the Bay Area last week and I was just talking to her on the phone at the end of her workday, and somebody like tried to steal her phone while she was on the phone with me.
Like what? Yeah, no, the, it's just, just like run by and grab. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's just, uh, you know, it's different. It's different in California there, uh, I think there are, there are a ton of great people, but it's much more of a, like, you, you just keep to yourself. Sure. You're in your own world in California versus, you know, Indiana.
People are trying to help each other. They're trying to have a conversation, they're trying to build, uh, build community. Um, but I'll tell you, uh, I didn't miss it. Uh, I didn't miss California. I miss my family. Obviously. What was really, really cool is we would just go on hikes all around Hamilton County and the north side of Indy all the time.
And, you know, we'd be walking through the forest and end up in a new build community. And I knew the moment I had her, uh, the moment that she decided she was gonna stay, she looks up at this, you know, new build and she's like, well, how much is that one gonna be? And at that moment it was done. Like we, we were staying, uh, just, it was a matter of, uh, of finding the right home at that point.
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, at that point, you, you had already had 70 properties under wraps. Mm-hmm. Do you get it? Straightened that part out. Yeah, we got it. Mostly straightened out. Yeah, straightened out. Okay. Are you still working at Facebook? Yeah. Yeah. I worked at Facebook until 2022. Okay. So you do, uh, another 18 months at Facebook?
Yeah. Where was the moment when you were like, okay, I'm gonna leave behind the, the tech dream, the corporate job, the corporate gig safety, right? Yeah. And the safety to go jump into full-time real estate and end up building Off Leash. At, at that point in time, I was working my tail off. I was, you know, working, you know, 50, 60 hours a week for Facebook.
I was probably putting another 20 hours into my, uh, my real estate stuff and I knew I needed to, I. Pull it back a little bit. I was, I was working too hard. We knew we wanted a, uh, to have a family and we knew we wanted to have our, our daughter. There were a couple of moments, uh, that I probably would've stayed another year or so.
But, uh, again, kind of a, a bad boss was brought in. Uh, my old boss who I was, you know, really close with, uh, he got moved off into a another department. So I had this, this person come in. She wanted to bring in her own people. And at, um, at, you know, uh, large organizations like this, uh, they're, they have kind of a, a forced, uh, bottom 10%.
And despite objectively being a top performer, she was trying to move me outta my role 'cause she had somebody she wanted in my role. And so I remember, uh, yeah, I've got the best wife in the world. Uh, just, she's my absolute ride or die. I remember I was sitting there on a, my performance review where again, I had objectively done a really good job, um, that quarter or that, that half.
And this woman was just beating me down. This boss, my wife just walks by. Uh, and she, she overhears the conversation, uh, as I'm having this, this performance review. And, uh, she just sends me a text and it pops up on my computer, f her, do it. Nice. And so I put in my notice the next day. That's all I said.
Hell yeah. Perfect. Let's go. Wait, what's your wife's name? Is Diane. Diane. Diane. Diane is a I love that. That's, that's iconic. So you put in your notice you, you know, you wake up that next day you live in, so in this sense of 24 months Yeah. You had moved out to Indiana. Yeah. You quit your, I would say a dream job growing in California.
You were working on a fan company. You were in a Facebook Yeah. Right. Working on Oculus. Doing like, I mean, it seems like in two years. From the outside. I bet. Like your Southern California family was like, what in the hell? Probably. Absolutely. He quit his job at Facebook. He moved to Indiana. Like, what the heck?
And, and now what do you, what do you do? You wake up and what do you start doing? Yeah, so, uh, incredible timing. I became a full-time flipper right before interest rates went up, uh, in mid 2022. Uh, which not, not a good time to be, uh, flipping necessarily. But, uh, you know, at that point in time I was doing 10 to 12 flips at a, at any given point in time.
10 to 12 at one time. Yeah. Just managing them. Yeah. Like from like the GC side kind of. Uh, so at that point we weren't even a gc. I, I would hire GCs to, to do all these flips for me. Okay. You're not swinging any hammers? No, God no. Yeah, no, they still don't let me swing any hammers. They don't let me have any tools.
Yeah. His, his just his laptop and his iPhone. Come on. Yeah, absolutely. Um, wow. Okay, so you're, man, you're doing 10 to 12 flips at a time. Yeah. This is 2022. Were things still, that was like right when things started to get a started little wonky. It started. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. This is a big question, Dan.
I know you're, uh, really big into just like learning and whether it's reading or just, you always seem to be like a sponge to new things. Like I think it's very fascinating, Nick, that you grew up in Southern California. You worked in tech, but yet you've become an expert on flipping real estate from outta state.
Right. In Indiana. Like how were you learning about one, Indiana, two, how to do these type of things, or even who could help you, right? Yeah. Because you're not swinging a hammer and you gotta trust somebody. Yeah. How did you build that network? That's really actually quite difficult. Uh, and BiggerPockets does a really good job of teaching you the steps to, to kind of do that stuff.
You know, fundamentally it's, it's starting with finding an incredible agent. Uh, I know you've had, uh, some, some awesome agents here. Max Moore has done quite a bit, uh, for us, and I know he was interviewed here not that long ago, but finding that incredible agent who can start building out your network for you.
Mm-hmm. Uh, attending, uh, meetups. Sure. Uh, yeah. Um, it's, you know, finding, finding your property manager should come from your, your, um, your agent finding your inspector should come from your agent. A lot of times finding your contractor, if you don't have neighbor, serve in your, uh, corner. That Neighbor Serve was not around when I started, uh, investing in, in, uh, Indianapolis real estate.
It's hilarious. 'cause the first people that we ever called were real estate agents. Yeah, absolutely. That's a big part, the value. Yeah. When you buy your house and if you have stuff that needs to get done, you're like, uh, okay, I'll just talk to my agent. Yeah. Right. My agent knows somebody. Mm-hmm. Uh, they, they work in this world.
And so, um, I mean that, that's kind of how I, I built that network out here. Uh, you know, I built up and used creative finance techniques to get to that 70 properties. I didn't have the cash to Sure. Put down, you know, the 25% on 70 properties. So I used a, a variety of different creative strategies, and then I started putting myself out there on BiggerPockets and on other, uh, other, you know, different platforms to be the local expert and.
I think one of the best ways that you become an expert is by putting yourself out there. Sure. And then having people come and ask you questions and makes you think about things a little bit differently. So I did over 500, uh, conversations with people who were looking to get started in real estate investing.
I actually looked that up on my Calendly from 2017 to 2022. Literally just helping people get, get started and, and get, you know, get in here on a real estate game. You did 500 conversations with people from, so you kind of started creating content on BiggerPockets, like in the forums? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Okay. So you then you become like a subject matter expert. Exactly. I will say there is a value in being forced to explain what you're learning. Hundred percent. It's, it's like a retention thing. 'cause there's a lot of times, um, that's why like book clubs are so good, right? Yeah. Because you have to read your chapters and then you discuss it.
You can it, yeah. Yeah. And then everyone can talk about how you thought, but like, it makes you not just go in one ear and out the other. Yeah. So you were then going through and having 500 conversations. How many of those. Telling people the exact same thing. Oh, they were all telling people the exact same thing?
Uh, no. At least, uh, the first conversation with anybody is, is pretty much the same. Uh, and then it would always, you know, if people would set a follow up, that was generally a good sign that they were gonna be successful. But I think I probably sent, if I say $50 million worth of referrals to agents here in Indianapolis during that time, I think I might be underselling it.
Wow. In transactions. Yeah. $50 million of referrals. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Easy. Three or four. They, someone better be giving you a good Christmas gift. Right. You know, I got, I got some, uh, I got taken care of by most of the agents in those situations. He's like, yeah, I was actually a frequent flyer at St. Elmo, thanks to our friends at x, y, z real estate company.
That's sick dude. Yeah. And that was once you lived here? No, that was even before I lived here. I was doing that from California. I would walk my dogs and I'd be, uh, talking to people about how to get started in real estate investing. People in the neighborhood are like, this guy is always talking about Indiana.
I can't understand why. Yeah. But what was in it for you? Why take 500 phone calls? I like helping people. Uh, like that, that's really what it came out tos. Very non California. You Yeah, it's a little, a little hosier of me. Um, no, I, I think, uh, there were a couple reasons. Uh, one, I liked supporting my network.
I'd built up kind of my, my recommended vendor list at that point in time, and I liked keeping those guys busy, uh, and, and helping them to, to continue to grow. And yeah, I, I think it made me better, uh, I, and maybe it was my own ego a little bit that just, you know, liked being able to, to talk about what I'd accomplished.
But, uh, but yeah, I just liked helping people get started. That's fascinating. When people were asking you why you're investing in Indiana Yeah. Was it all straight? Like the numbers just make sense, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's really what it came down to. Um, you know, I didn't come out here enough. To really fall in love with Indiana until I moved out here.
Yeah. Um, the, the, the math made sense and so I continued to invest out here and, uh, could I have found a better market, you know, three years in, uh, and, and shifted maybe. But at that point I was so lazy, I'd built up my network out here. Like it didn't make sense to start from scratch. And all the people you're relying on the real estate agents Yeah.
The, with the contractors, whatever. Yeah. You nailed it. And so, uh, at that point in time, I'm sure there was a hotter market in, you know, 2020. Mm-hmm. Um, but you know, I, I built it out here and it was still good enough. And that was always kind of the thing I told people is, you know, don't get into analysis paralysis.
There's always a better house. There's always a better market. There's always a better contractor, a better agent. Like find good enough. And move and go. You're working on flipping interest rates start to go crazy and I mean, at that point yeah. You had 10 or 12 flips at a time. Yeah. What shifts you out of flipping and more into everything with Off Leash interest rates, uh, started to rise.
Uh, thankfully a hedge fund came and offered me way too much money for a bunch of my houses. Oh. Uh, right before interest rates went up. And at that point I had how the hell was a hedge fund? Just like, yeah, we're gonna call Megan. It's probably from those 500 calls you had. Right? Uh, you know what, it was actually an agent, uh, one of the agents that I'd referred quite a bit of business to was working with a hedge fund, and he helped package it up to him, and they came and offered me about 12% more than I thought they were worth.
And the bank thought the, the houses were worth. Um, and this was in like March of 2022. You know, interest rates didn't start rising, I think until June or so of that, that year. At that point in time, I had to do something called a 1031 exchange. For any viewer who's not familiar, that's where you essentially don't want to take the tax hit of selling something for a gain, and uh, so therefore you essentially trade up your equity into something else and there's no tax.
Liability in that situation is a really, really cool, uh, tool that exists out there for real estate investors, uh, that creates liquidity in the market so that people don't just hold onto houses for a long time. Yeah. If you've listened to an episode of BiggerPockets, you have heard of a 1031 exchange, right?
Yeah, exactly. For sure. Um, I, I, I can imagine a lot of people though, getting upset about the idea of a 10 31, but it does create liquidity in a market. It's a, it's a really good thing to have. Uh, 'cause otherwise people would never sell their houses. Yeah. Because basically yeah. You have 180 days to move real estate from Correct.
Whatever transaction into your next Yeah. Transaction. Yep. Uh, and you know, there's, there's a lot more to it. Talk to a tax professional. Don't just do it on your own. This is the furthest thing from financial advice. Please. Yeah. Don't, don't trust us. Um, but even he has, has 500 calls about helping you get, this is not one of those calls.
No. Um, and so I had to find what the heck I was gonna do. 'cause I needed to spend about $3 million, uh, or I needed to buy $3 million of real estate in in the next 180 days. I was looking at a bunch of ugly houses. I'm like, Ugh, it's gonna be hard to, to line everything up and, and make everything from a transaction perspective work.
And so I just went on Zillow and I'm like, you know what? Screw it. I'm just gonna buy an apartment building like it. It's gonna be kind of a, a crappy apartment building, but it'll be fine. And so I just crank up the minimum to $3 million and I come across the most beautiful piece of property in all of Indiana and at bar none, I, I don't care what else you guys are talking about.
I came across the The Wilds Wedding Venue. Oh yeah. And it is 125 acres in Bloomington. It's right there at the, the edge of Brown County in Bloomington. And I, I took my agent out there and we looked at it and we fell in love that day. Uh, and purchased, uh, purchased a wedding venue, which was a funny story in and of itself.
Like I said, um, my wife is, is my ride or die. I, I come home that night after, you know, shaking hands with the, the lender. I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm gonna buy this. And, you know, like, let's lock interest rate right now. Uh, like I can't believe that they did that and, and actually kept their word, but they, we locked interest rate right there.
I'm like, I don't wanna shop for lenders. Can we just agree this is gonna take them? Yeah. You know, 60 days to close. Can we just lock it? He said, yeah, interest rates rose in the next 60 days pretty substantially. And they, they held their word. So huge. Shout out to Indiana University Credit Union. They're amazing.
Nice people to work with. Still work with them on everything I do, but there it is. Boom. Yeah, just like having, like having a guy or having a gal. Having a person for that. Like, it, sometimes you just, 'cause there are always, I'm sure there are better percentages you can get. I'm sure there are better. Like cheaper this or cheaper.
Yeah. And it's like, some of it's just like, I don't know. You get what you say, are you gonna do? Yeah. Yeah. Are you a person of your word? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He sells 17 houses to a hedge fund to buy a wedding venue in Bloomington, Indiana. Yeah. On. Allegedly the most beautiful piece of property in the entire state.
I mean, it's, it's awesome, Dan. You've seen it. I, I went and trespassed. I called, actually I did call Nick beforehand just 'cause I was in Bloomington. I love Bloomington. And I was like, you you own a wedding venue? Yeah. It's like, yeah. I, I mean, it's awesome. It's way up on this hill, like overlooking, like, it looks like the upland sort of logo from the, you know, the, the, the hills and everything.
It's amazing. Nobody FactCheck me, but that is I think, the highest point in all of Indiana. It's, yeah. Period. Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, depending on what day your wedding and how many beverages you might have. Yeah. Might be true. It could be a hundred percent. You know what, it's interesting, I'm on your website and looking at it, this might be the only wedding venue in the state of Indiana that lists pricing.
Oh, yeah. On, on the website. Well, and that's what people love about us. We're, we're very transparent about that kind of thing, right. We, we want people, we want to qualify people as quickly as possible. And if it doesn't make sense, we don't want, like, there's nothing worse than somebody showing up to the venue and realizing, oh.
Oh, I would love to get married here. I can't afford it. That's just such a demoralizing thing for such a happy time in somebody's life. Yeah. And no one wants to think like they're getting the, oh, we're getting the sub-tier. Like, we can't afford the good wedding. So we're getting, it's like, no, you're getting your wedding.
Yeah. You know, like, you don't wanna make them feel. Wow. Okay. So you get into the wedding venue business. Yeah. You, you have a ton of experience. Oh. Um, so again, this is my wife being the absolute ride or die. I come home and I tell her, Hey hun, I think we're gonna buy a wedding venue. She kind of stops, looks at me.
Okay. Two things. One, what makes you think you're remotely qualified to run a wedding venue? You were barely involved in your own wedding. Um, and, and number two, I trust you. You're not allowed to talk to the brides because you are gonna minimize all of their problems. And so, uh, no, I have no, uh, experience with, uh, anything to do with weddings.
It just happened to be one heck of a transition, and I'm pretty good at managing people and, and hiring people. And that's what we've been able to do down there. And that becomes your full-time job as being like an event. No. Wedding manager. No. Uh, I, I'm too a DD for that. I can't just do one thing. And so, uh, shortly thereafter, again, I was still doing, um, uh, the, the flipping.
I began doing some project management for people alongside, uh, uh, one of my contractors I'd brought in to, to project management exclusively for me. A close friend of mine, Paul, uh, Paul Aguiar, man, I almost just mis uh, mispronounced his name. Paul. That would've been embarrassing. Paul brought him in. And so a lot of the out-of-state investor community started asking, well, hey, contractors have been really bad out here recently.
Are you willing to help manage our projects? And so we started doing that shortly thereafter. Um, so I was doing that. Um, was that the genesis of off-leash? That it was the genesis of off-leash, uh, and off-leash construction? Um, you know, it took us a little bit to realize it, but contractors being bad means that project management doesn't really have, uh, doesn't really have as much margin as we were hoping.
So, uh, in October of 23, we actually began GC everything ourselves. Mm-hmm. And so, okay. Dan, you're gonna be our expert on that. Yeah. And you are expert. Yeah. When it comes to all things pros, uh, Nick, you had an interesting statement there saying that contractors are bad. And let's dive into that a little bit.
Yeah. Of like the, the root issue of, 'cause I do think there are tons of really good craftsmen. I agree across the state, the great builders, they're good at swinging the unlike us. Yeah. We're probably not hammer swingers. Nope. Uh, but there are good craftsmen out there that might get a bad rap because the business that they run might not be operating at peak efficiency.
Yeah. I th I think at the end of the day, there's a ton of great contractors and then Nick hit it before transparency, just trust and transparency. And if you're really good at swinging a hammer, you may not have a nick. That can kind of run the website and run the business and make sure the call's answered.
Yeah. Right. And so I think it kind of takes both sides. It's like building a software company, right? I can't do that either. I may need to go hire a software engineer, right? Yeah. If I'm gonna build Off Leash Construction, I need a paw. Yeah. And so, and then it just goes back to, hey, you know, if, if you know, doing what you say you're gonna do.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, as you look through, like, what are the things that set apart some of the best contractors and service pros in the state of Indiana, and what are the things or ways that they could improve customer service is, uh, far and away that the number one thing that most contractors struggle with.
Um, they, they are really good, like we've talked about at swinging a hammer, building a plan on how they're gonna do renovation on a project. Mm-hmm. Ideally, but they might not necessarily have systems for capturing, uh, what they commit to with, uh, a customer, uh, so that they can go and, and put a change order together or make sure that they actually do what the, uh, the customer has, has asked to be adjusted.
Uh, they are ideally on job sites all day long, so they're not good at picking up the phone. So, so what ends up happening with a lot of these contractors is their revenue's really lumpy mm-hmm. In a lot of ways because they win a job. They stop doing anything that generates their next job and then they work on that job until that job's finished and then they start doing like, uh, any type of marketing activity shortly thereafter.
It's kind of like the old school, um, like hunter mentality, right? It's like you go on a hunting trip, you kill your buffalo. Yeah. You eat for three months and then you're like, gotta get a hunt. Better to get back out there. Yeah, absolutely. And so, um, I think that's where Paul and I have, uh, really been, uh, good to each other, is he's able to go out there and execute the work that I sell.
And that's, uh, yeah, I, I'm constantly doing different things to drive, uh, incremental business and incremental, um, opportunities while he just goes out there. And he deals with the problems and, and, uh, actually does the, the building. I think every like wild-eyed entrepreneur needs a p Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Everybody needs a p in their life. I think, I think Dan will attest to this too. I couldn't agree more. Shout out to our guy Carrie. I, I, yeah, Carrie. If Carrie wouldn't, uh, upstairs then, then we'd be in trouble. Yeah. Um, well, I mean this is the, the issue, the same issue that brought you to Starting Neighbor Serve right, right.
Is whether it's huge conglomerate companies, like all these, like the process of getting stuff fixed around your house, home projects, home services sucks. Yeah. You just treat it like your health. It's like my knee hurts, but I'm not going to the doctor. 'cause it's gonna, it's gonna be a more painful experience finding where to go.
Right? Absolutely. So I mean, what Nick and Off Leash have done really, really well is communication and, and then I think the other part that's huge is huge is accountability. Right. So if something doesn't go right, yeah. Or if there is a change, you, you right, you, you're super transparent about what needs to happen, and you got someone on your list who already has everything.
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Must be 18 and older to play. Please gift responsibly. Uh, I'm reading a book called The Power of Moments. It's, it's a really good book, but they say like, the number one way that you can build a lifelong customer is how you address totally. When something goes wrong. Oh, a hundred percent matters. You'll have a way better chance of of Yeah.
Retaining and creating like a, a fanatical fan. Yeah. If something goes wrong and you fix it in an incredible way. Right. You're probably called, right. You don't, you don't email or text about it. You're like, Hey, you fill out a form on the website. Right. A hundred percent on, on the little chat bubble at the bottom.
Right. Speaking. I'm actually in the middle of one of those. I started like four hours ago. I'm trying to cancel a subscription and it still hasn't let me cancel. Oh my gosh. Brutal. Just so brutal. Not making a great customer experience there. No kidding. I just think, yeah. This is gonna be a good moment for us to dive into this next segment of building out Off Leash.
Yeah. Of talking through. Yeah. The ways that a lot of these craftsmen are really good builders, but they do, whether they need a nick and Nick needs a Paul, like Yeah. That, that yin and yang of like kind of co-founders. Mm-hmm. As well as. Innovation in a, maybe not innovation I word they call like boring. A boring space, right?
Yeah. They're like boring businesses. Yeah. They're not boring. They just, you can still innovate, right? Oh, I a hundred percent think you can innovate. That's why. Like, like what are some of the craziest innovations you've done for off-leash? Yeah. So, uh, and this is gonna sound super boring, uh, but it's, it's literally just building your business processes such that you can proactively communicate with your customers.
You know, I, I very quickly broke, uh, just about every tool that we, um, that, that we got into simply because, uh, they weren't necessarily designed to operate the, the way I imagined it. But we just recently got into, uh, about a year ago into a software called Buildertrend. It is one of the most powerful softwares that exist out there if people actually use it properly.
So, you know, our project managers go out to a job site, they take a bunch of videos. They have the opportunity there to literally just post it like a Facebook feed mm-hmm. To the customer so that the customer gets a notification, Hey, this update occurred there. There's no question. Like they don't have to to try and chase down project manager.
You don't read something forever. It's right there in a video. Right, exactly. Well, and, and that's one of the, the biggest things that I think people struggle with. Contractors, and you can probably attest to this more than anybody, but getting in contact with your, your contractors, one of the hardest things you can do.
So if you as the contractor, without costing yourself any additional time or able to proactively answer people's questions, that is so freaking powerful. Um, you know, setting up essentially a schedule from the start so that a customer can see what we think the schedule is. Now we know with a hundred percent certainty when we put that schedule out, it's wrong.
It's wrong. Right. But at least they have directional data around that and they can see when we update it so that they understand the, the Gantt charting, uh, implications on their schedule when, hey, the electrical took an extra two days, that pushes you out, you know? And unfortunately, it's not two days necessarily.
It's three or four. So on the op side you're using builder trends, right? Yeah. And Paul's, Paul, you know, Paul's using that every day. Yeah. One of the things that I always find so fascinating is on the marketing side. Mm-hmm. You know, a guy coming from Facebook Oh yeah. Treats, uh, construction. Uh, business building a little bit differently than, than the rest of the, the contractors at Neighbor Serve.
So I think like that's a super interesting thing too. Can you talk about what you're doing on the, like the reaching out thing? Well, I mean, every, everything from the speakeasy to the outreach thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, starting with the, uh, the speakeasy, that's definitely something. Um, we, we got our office, uh, yeah, we got our office, um, not that, uh, you know, maybe a year, year and a half ago.
And, uh, it's uh, kind of one of these, these split spaces where you've got the office space and then also the warehouse. And Paul and I walked into this part of the warehouse that had doors on it, and we kinda looked around and we're like, this, this is not. Warehouse space. This is gonna be a speakeasy. Um, you know, we've been spending hundreds of dollars per, per month taking clients out to dinner, taking clients out to drinks and stuff like that.
And so we turned what is, you know, what was a kind of dingy space into what I think is a pretty cool little hangout. It's awesome hangout, speakeasy. We had, uh, drinks there a couple weeks ago. So your clients come to you instead of you having to go out and spend a bunch of money and take exactly place with Really no.
Like they don't get a feel for your business. Yeah. They don't get a feel for us. They don't get a feel for our business if we take 'em out to dinner. And you're right, we get to drink better bourbon, right? It's a whole lot cheaper. And um, also it's kind of cool about it. We've, uh, we're turning part of it into a showroom so people are gonna be able to pick out their cabinets and stuff like that while you're having a great bourbon.
Exactly. So that's, uh, mean, that's unique. Nate, Nate needs a new, uh, kitchen now. Yeah. Before sold. Yeah. Come on out. Come on. We'll have some bourbons. It's, uh, I think about 20 minutes from here, so. Amen. Um, but yeah, so we're doing that. We're doing a lot of, uh, reach out stuff. Uh, I think, uh, I think one of the, the most fun things for me is just sitting there and watching YouTube videos for a while, like of all the, the newest tech that exists out there.
Mm-hmm. Uh, built out some automations now to reach out to agents that are operating within our market and letting 'em know, hey, like. We're here when that inspection report comes back. We got, you Shoot us a call. I mentioned your company the other day, and the agent was like, yeah. Uh, I get an email from Nick when I close a home.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Whenever anybody, uh, closes a home in, or, uh, lists a home for sale in our market, they get an email from me. That's just so powerful. Yeah. How has growth been of your business? You started this in 2023? Uh, October, 2023 is when we started. So, so this is two years? Yeah. Yeah. We're coming up.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, shoot. It's your two year anniversary. Um, October 1st. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And by the time this comes out, it'll definitely for you just hit two years. Come on. Wow. I didn't even, uh, didn't even realize it. That's awesome. Okay. So how has, how has growth been for you? Uh, it's been absolutely astronomical.
Uh, we started off, um, in the world that we, we had been operating in was, uh, the investor world really only worked with out-of-state investors when we started, because that's the only people who knew us. Then, you know, I remember we were sitting actually in the speakeasy that we were just talking about, and I was sitting there with a property manager of, I don't know.
200 doors or so, and sitting there with Paul, we're, we're all drinking. And the guy goes, well, you do maintenance. Right. And Paul and I kinda look at each other. Yeah. We do maintenance. And so we started a maintenance arm, uh, of our business. And we unfortunately learned a lot in that process. And I think we're pretty darn good at maintenance now.
But it took us a minute. I think that's a, a very, very powerful piece to entrepreneurship. I'm not gonna say bite off more than you can chew, but you say yes to a lot of things. Yeah. And the answer might not be, Hey, I know everything there is to know about maintenance. Yeah. But the answer is I know that I can figure it out.
Yeah. The work will show you the way and, and, and you have my work. I think this is a big thing. Dan talks. Yeah. I mean a lot about this, of just what you said, like do what you say you're gonna do. Yeah. Or the work will show you the way. Right. Yeah. And if you don't, if you get something wrong, you can make it Right.
And you're, you're learning with your investors a hundred percent. Maybe not individual homeowners. Right? Yeah. So like you can learn a lot faster 'cause you can get to a lot more properties and a lot more jobs. Yeah. You know, through that world. Yeah. I think you've done a great job of like marrying together the different.
Channels Yeah. In the world, right? It's realtors, investors, or, yeah. I mean, that's retail. That's, that's fundamentally the objective is, you know, I, I, I learned a lesson in 2022 when flipping kind of dried up that you don't want to have all your eggs in one basket. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, for us, we kind looked at it that we wanted multiple legs of the stool.
We wanted Yeah. We want the investors. We, we love that work. That's awesome. There, there's nothing easier than working on a house that somebody's not living in, um, than, you know, you've got the, the maintenance side, which is consistent every single month. You know, things are gonna break in these rental houses.
And then, you know, the, the retail side, you know, which is, is absolutely fantastic. Tends to, um, tends to be more fun, bigger projects like redoing at somebody's kitchen and, and Carmel's a whole lot more fun than, you know, redoing a $30,000 house in downtown Indianapolis. Right. Uh, it's a lot more artistic, uh, for the most part.
But those people dry up during the holidays. Like those people don't want you in their house. Mm-hmm. Redoing their kitchen during Thanksgiving. What is, what is like the hottest time of year for home renovations? You know, I, I would say kind of right after Christmas, like February timeframe is kind of when we, we tend to see a huge uptick, I feel like.
Yeah. Prepping for summer. Yeah. Like leading up to summer. Right. And then there might be like a little tiny bit at the end of summer where people are like, eptember, okay, we like, we, we put this off all summer long 'cause we were having fun. We're at the lake, we're doing this, and now we're gonna be thinking about holidays.
Like the indoor stuff. I feel like you're right. Christmas holidays get done. You're trying to knock those things out. And then all the outdoor projects, no matter what the outdoor landscapers and folks try to do, they don't start until right. March or April. So you're doing not only working with out-of-state investors Yeah.
You're also working in maintenance. Yep. And rent, like, so there's three arms to it. Yeah. You don't do any commercial work? Uh, we do a little bit of commercial work. That's not really our primary focus though. Um, which is interesting because I feel like a lot of people. Like from a GC construction side, like, oh, I wanna do commercial, I wanna do, I wanna get into commercial.
Yeah. Why has that not been your sweet spot? We've only been in business two years. I, I can't promise focus that we're not gonna, uh, get there. But Paul, uh, Paul's really good at the, yeah, he's a master carpenter. He never left Hamilton County his 21st, 20 years of his career. Like, so how, how many people on the team now?
'cause we've talked through this, there's, there's, yeah. So, and, and how the heck did you do that? 'cause I think about contractors, the hardest thing with growing a, a contracting business is you can only grow as fast as you can deliver amazing work. And you can only do amazing work as fast as you can hire really good craftspeople.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So like, how the heck could be done that it's a, an interesting balance. Um, with all the maintenance side that has to be in house, you really can't do maintenance as Yeah. Uh, subcontractors. So finding good people is something that we are always doing. I think we probably do five or six interviews every single week.
Mm, we extend maybe two, two offers every single week. And we know we're gonna have attrition in our, in our team from just on, on a consistent basis. So I think our field techs that we have right now, I think we've got about 10 at our most. We got up to about 23, 24, we learned a lesson, and it's that on construction jobs, we, with exception, uh, of like the high end trades, we want that all to be subbed out.
Uh, there's the, the incentive structure is a little bit broken when you have an hourly employee and you're trying to get a job done as, as quickly as humanly possible. Mm-hmm. And where, you know, in those situations, we're gonna hire a subcontractor to, to go out there, say, Hey, it's, you know, you're gonna get $5,000 to do X, actually pay you extra if you get it done faster, kind of thing.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, that is hard. You're, you're in there quality per speed. Yeah. Yeah. And they're incentivized. They're a sub. Yeah. Like this is what you're gonna get. Yeah. Like they wanna get that done as soon as possible versus, versus, because they want to move on to the next one. Yeah. You're an, an hourly employee, you're kind of like, well, you know, I can get it done.
Yeah. Wow. But the, the downside of working with a subcontractors, you can't tell someone where to be based on Right. You know, the, the legal, legal implications of that. So, um, that's why you really can't do it for the maintenance side, uh, because you need to be able to tell people, be here at this time and do this.
Mm-hmm. Whereas subcontractor, you can say like, you're gonna get this to do this project. I'd like you to be here at this time. So, pros and cons to, to both sides for sure. Um, so at this point in time, I think we're at about 18 total employees. About eight back office. Mm-hmm. And, uh, about 10 front. How did you guys get hooked up?
John introduced us, like everybody that I think. In this world. Yeah. Like we, we are always, it's always an introduction, right? Yeah. And so I, I had, I don't know how you knew John or, so John has been my attorney for, uh, a while. He, he's repped me on a variety of different transactions, including The Wilds purchase and, um, you know, the suing of my, uh, bad property manager in the past, like he's, he's always been in my corner.
And so yeah, he introduced us. Uh, I don't know. Yeah, he knew Ed Sherman, who we had hired John and he are great buddies. And then, uh, John worked with Paul Mullen. So that's the thing about Indiana, right? It's always one degree away. So you guys get hooked up. And obviously for anyone that doesn't know Dan has built Neighbor Serve.
You guys are a little over two years old now. Yeah, we're about, we're we're a little over two years as well. So look at that. Yeah. The guy's just crushing it. I know, right? Um, and talk to us about what neighbors serve is and how it made total sense and like your perspective of that nick, of why being part of Neighbor Serve Made sense.
Yeah. And so essentially all the things that Nick mentioned is just paying, paying to find people to take care of your house. And I've also run contracting businesses. And it was really, really hard to compete as a local player in that space, even though we knew we were doing great work. You couldn't, you know, when you Google, you find the best advertiser.
Mm-hmm. So we build our local home services clubs and it, and it just, it bridges the gap. It brings homeowners and contractors in the same club together. And, and we do a heck of a lot of work. We talk to a thousand contractors every year and we invite the top 5%. We manage about a thousand homes across Indiana.
And, and at the end of the day, we just, we get to know you. We get to know your project, and we connect you with the right contractor. That saves everybody a ton of time. So you get jobs done and save a bunch of money. And from the contractor perspective, why it makes sense to, to work with you guys. You know, there, there are other competing platforms out there that.
Don't necessarily add nearly the same value. Um, you know, they, they will send you a lead, but they're also gonna send it to like six or seven other people. Right. Yeah. We don't sell leads. Right. Yeah. It's just, it's relationships. Yeah, absolutely. And the other part of it from a contractor perspective that's beautiful to see is that you guys actually are essentially pre-qualifying the customers on the other side.
These are people who are already willing to spend a little bit of money mm-hmm. In order to, uh, to, to get into the club of all the best contractors that exist out there. That essentially tells us from the start that these aren't people that are gonna be tire kickers. These are people who are actually serious about taking care of the home.
Because for you as a, as a contractor, yeah. The worst thing you can do is go out, quote a project, you know, you waste two or three hours and then someone never calls you back. Uh, that happens about 70% of the time. 70. Yes. 70. Think. Yeah. Yeah. So if you do 10 quotes a week, we'll get three. Oh my God. What do we have?
Like a number versus like a Neighbor Serve side? Uh, you know, I don't know if we necessarily have, have done that analysis, but what I'll tell you is, you know, uh, we do a lot with agents with, uh, Neighbor Serve and those people, if that transaction goes through, it's coming to us right at that point in time.
Um, but think about that. Like that's the whole, like, contractors are always like, oh man, you're just gonna put a coupon on the website and I'm gonna have to call a bunch of leads that you're gonna send to me. But we, we, we make warm introductions Yeah. To like Off Leash and, and, and, because they're saving time not having to travel all around town doing projects they don't want to do.
Yeah. Right. You're able to offer better pricing. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's, it's not like you can still make money Yeah. But offer a better price for the homeowner. Absolutely. And that's all the waste that happens in contracting. 'cause there's no trust and, and so people are just trying to get the best deal, but they want quality.
And so it's just educating folks about, about the right way to do things and, and trying to make the right introduction. Right. If you're a recruiter, you don't go out and, uh, right at, at Nate, you're hiring. Great. Here's 10 people I'm gonna ask you a lot about. Yeah. Like what you need and go, go talk to those folks.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually from, from a transacting point, right? It's like you don't have to have 10 conversations to get three deals closed. Yeah. It's like, oh no. Uh, so-and-so if I reach out to TJ and say, Hey, TI need new sighting like last week he's gonna send me, and like, a deal is getting done.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Or at least a much higher chance, you know, it might take it from 30% to 60%. Yeah. Across everybody that we do, we, we always, we have this on our website, right. That, that the warm introductions that we make result in jobs done 50, 50 plus percent of the time. Yeah. I believe that. So that's helpful for the homeowner, not wasting time.
Yeah. Right. Contractors are calling them back. We're always there to help in the, and and, and again, it's, it's communication. So we we're there in the middle if something goes sideways and, and on both sides, you know? Yeah. There's some accountability. Yeah. And like the thing that I feel a lot of homeowners don't wanna do is deal with it, but it's all relationship.
It's local. If you're running around town, you're looking people in the eyes. Yeah. You. You know, nothing against the out-of-state investor, right? Yeah. But if you look at people in the eye, you're more likely to get a better, uh, yeah, absolutely. A better experience. Yeah. Well, and I think the, the whole premise of all that makes sense because I can just, not that, uh, obviously customer service is super important for off-leash, but if my point of contact is just tj and it's like TJ's out there, it's like, oh, hey, this broke plumbing broke.
Yeah, this broke that, broke this thing. Fix this, do that. Like I already have trust with, if you're, if, if you pass TJ's, uh, like sniff test or whatever, right? Then like, cool, then if you're good enough Ram, you're good enough for me. 'cause you built trust over multiple repetitions there. Yeah, that's right.
And we gotta see it in action. So a lot of times, uh, Nick, I think we did this right. It's like we, we sent you out on a project and you know, we kind of saw how it went. Yeah. It was, it was a good experience for everybody. And, and again, it started with John introducing us. Yeah. So Prequalifying the contractor, just back to Indiana, like it's, uh, it, the Kevin Bacon game gets pretty, you know, there's not a lot of degrees of separation.
Yeah. Well, talk to us about what we can expect for Off Leash as we head into 2026. We're gonna continue to improve here on a daily basis. We're gonna continue to, to grow our base of, uh, of subcontractors. Uh, the maintenance side I think is gonna continue to grow. We're, we're working with a variety of different property managers and so, um, yeah, I think, I think it's just more of what we, we already are doing.
I don't think we're adding any additional arms here in 2026. I just want to do everything that we do really, really well. Yeah. Yeah. It's been cool too to see you interact with lots of the other contractors around Indianapolis and, and. Bring them into jobs. People trust you. Yeah. It's like anything else.
It's like people trust you and they ask you for other stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Help first seems to be native to what you do. Well, Dan, you mentioned this earlier, boring businesses seem to be Yeah. Very hot on social media. Well, it's so weird. Think about like the sweaty startup. Yeah. And I don't know, there's, there's so many of those podcasts about, Hey, quit your, your corporate job.
Like I went to something called the ETA Entrepreneurship through Acquisition meetup, like Pat East hosted that locally. Yeah. And it was, he asked a question in this thing, uh, this was last week. He was like, how many of you are corporate refugees? Meaning you're in a corporate job and you want to go buy and run your own small company.
And like half the room raised their hand. Wow. And then it was like, how many of you are recovering tech folks? Right. And then the other half of the room raised their hand recovering. So it was, it was wild. It's, it is all over the place. And, uh, it doesn't mean it's easy. Why? Definitely. I was gonna say, why is it so appealing right now?
Yeah. I, I think there's an allure that it's easier than it, than, than it seems, and then there's a second part of it, right? Simple, simple, not easy. There's, there's this thing, this theory that I've yet to see come to light called the silver tsunami, mean the transition of wealth. Right. Let it be known. Dan is the one who told me about the silver tsunami like two years ago.
It's such a funny name. I'm still waiting to see it. I, I'm still waiting for it. But, but the idea is that the baby boomers, uh, there's the, I don't know, a trillion plus dollars, uh, value in wealth that these people have to transition those small businesses over the x number of years. Um, and so it's like, okay, well great, this flood of businesses are coming for sale.
I can just take a business that's been around for 20 years and I can apply a little modern tech and marketing to it, and it'll be super easy. And maybe I'll even have passive income now. I have, I, that's kind of a unicorn. I haven't seen that happen too many times. But I think that that's the theory. I think the theory, but then I, I wonder if like private equity or something just keeps, like, getting out ahead of it and buying, listen, I fell for it all.
Like I tried to go do it 2020 to 2024. Yeah. Right. It's just really hard to run that. What was hard about it? Well, we, we were good at starting companies. Mm-hmm. So we found awesome operators in the home services space and we started a handful of like, patio, dumpster, whatever, companies. Um, and the theory was we could go out and then acquire because the silver tsunami was coming and we were just gonna, you know, go acquire great businesses and apply, uh, our brand and our marketing and our tech to these other complimentary things that you may need as well.
But the, the bottom line was, it was really, really hard to go out and find and then actually complete a transaction in those. So we, we kind of broke that thing up in, in all the holster companies. Uh, operate independently and run today, but the idea of acquiring a bunch of things and growing really fast, the only way to grow in home services is word of mouth and service.
Yeah. In my opinion. And, and you can only deliver that as fast as you can hire. I couldn't agree more. Was that like what got you into, did you think it was easy? No, I never thought it was easy. You did it because you kind of had to because you had the investment properties. Yeah. I was solving my own problem, yeah.
Is really what it came down to. I in-house my project management to just lower my cost and increase my, my quality on my, my flips and everything. And so yeah, I was solving my own problem and. You know, running a maintenance company when you own 70 properties lowers your cost of, of your maintenance.
Having, having a, a construction company, when you have a wife who's constantly upgrading the home, uh, or, or needing things done in the home, has advantages a good thing? You were nice at the start of the conversation. Yeah, absolutely. No, there's, there's always upgrades to be done in any home, so, yeah. No, I, it's not that I thought it would be easy is that I was scratching my own itch and, um, so that's how it got there.
I think a lot of the Neighbor Serve members and other service providers around central Nana and beyond are gonna listen to this episode. What advice do you guys have? Like, who is winning and why are they winning and what can small business owners do specifically in home services to help set themselves apart and win?
I think it's putting yourself in the, uh, the seat of the, uh, customer and really understanding what their experience is from, from start to finish. Like, all right, they reach out to us. What is their SLA, uh, service level agreement, uh, that they're gonna have to get a response. First things first, let's.
Let's create an SLA. Yeah, let's start there. Yeah. Like, um, but like, like how fast is somebody gonna pick up the phone, right? Like, is is it gonna happen in the first two or three rings? Is it gonna go to voicemail? Like, that's, that's the first thing. If it goes to voicemail, you're basically screwed. Uh, at that point, you're not getting that customer.
All right. So once you've gotten that, like how, how fast are you? What happens if someone calls Off Leash right now? Uh, I guarantee Joy or Tamara is gonna pick up the phone. Heck yeah. Yeah. That's like ni I think that's half the battle right there. Yeah. Just answer the phone. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, somebody's gonna answer the phone if, uh, if you call Off Leash, uh, and if you call after hours or AI is gonna take notes and we will get a response to them by 9:00 AM the next morning.
I didn't bring my phone in here. That would've been a fun. Ve been to Dove. Been fun. Wait, damn. Borrow your phone. You want a call? Should we That Is that disruptive? No, go for it. Is that disruptive? No. Go let it, let's just do a little exercise here. That's hilarious. What's the number? Uh, four six three. Put it on speakerphone and put it up to the mic.
Okay. 2 0 5. Okay. 0 7 4 5. Man, this is gonna be really embarrassing if people don't pick up the phone. Let's see, let's see. Hey, nobody bats a thousand percent time. I call. Let's see it. Let's see it. Is it on speaker? Yeah. Put up to the mic. Oh, man. Pressure. Come on.
Wow. All right. Team is gonna get some feedback. No, they're great. They always answer my call. Oh, man. They really know. It's Dan. They're like, they probably number. Oh man. We're not getting this deal, man. Yeah, that's right. Did I call the right number? Yeah, yeah. You got it. Hello? Hello? Hey, it's uh, it's Dan. Oh, there we go.
Yeah. We were just calling to, uh, to say hi. I'm here with Nick Giulioni. Hey, joy, thanks for picking up. I appreciate you. We were running a quick test. You, you, you, you did great. You nailed it. Joy. Spectacular job. Good. All right. Have a good one. Joy. Alright. Phew. Alright. It's a, oh my God, one pressure. Can't take that guy.
That was great. That was, it. Could've gone one of two ways. So four ring. But, but like I would say picking up on the fourth ring is the anomaly. You've already like way exceeded customer expectations. Yep, absolutely. So, you know, it's, it's getting somebody to actually pick up the phone schedule, uh, schedule a, uh, a walkthrough with the estimator.
How long is it gonna take the estimator to get out there? Contractors that are, don't actually have estimators on staff are gonna take. Weeks, uh, potentially to, to get out to a house. How fast can you get it? Then once they walk the house, how fast does it, uh, can you get a, a scope of work sent over to the customer?
Mm-hmm. And then from that point, it's like, how, how fast are you able to, to get onto the job? Once the, the customer says, yes, I'm ready to go. Right. Um, and so really put yourself in the customer's seat for all of that and, and understand it. And, and in all of that too, it doesn't have to be like, Hey, you answer the phone, I'll be there tomorrow and finish your project by Tuesday.
It's just, I think it goes back to what we set outta the gates, setting the right expectations. Yep. Constant communication. Yeah. Proactive. Yeah. Proactive communication. If something goes sideways, you know, pick up the phone, show up in person. And do everything in, in, in your po in your power to make it right.
Yeah. Yeah. If there were aspiring entrepreneurs out there, they maybe don't have a lot of money, but they might have, they have time and they want to, they, they don't want to go down a 30 year corporate Yeah. Trajectory. What would you guys recommend they do? Yeah, that's a great question. We have a few in our network.
Um, you know, Brian Woodward bought a dryer vent cleaning company. He bought a vacuum and a list of customers from a guy that was just gonna close it all down. And he had a How much do you think that initial investment was? It was like 10 grand. Okay. That's not, that's not that crazy. But now he's got, and he's just grinding it out one house at a time and, and delivering great service.
So, I mean, it doesn't have to be like the, the dumpster company that we, we had started, like we were, you know, a couple years in and we were gonna. You know, it wasn't a lot of money to go buy that thing. It was the, the value of the equipment and the trucks. But you can go out and you can get loans. So, I mean, you can do anything from just start your own with a power washer.
I was gonna say power washing. Power washing is incredible. Right? And, and you just start building a list of customers. And you take care of those customers and they start calling you for all kinds of other things. So if you're, if you don't have the cash, go buy a power washer. Car detailing, I think is another one.
Detail. Yeah. Oh my gosh. You go, go, you can go door to door on that one. Yeah. I mean, there's countless lawn mowing businesses and things like that, but, uh, may maybe just one step up. Do you guys, you guys know, uh, which I think I know, I know that Dan does. Do you guys know, uh, Hunter Beal and Scott Lingle? Oh yeah.
High School Hustle guys. Those guys rural, like take one of those playbooks. Yeah. Like there were a couple kids in that program. So for those of you don't know, they, they ran, I don't know, 2000 high school kids joined their startup program and they competed based on top line revenue over the summer, and then they gave away like 10 grand to somewhere.
They helped. Yeah. I don't know the total number off the top of my head. Yeah. But, but they got kids at high schools all across central Indiana to start side hustles. Yeah. Yeah. And they made. Like close to, like, to date, they've made close to a million dollars in top line revenue. Yeah. For all these kids to grow.
What, what a great experience. Like just to Yeah. Encourage people to, to go. It's amazing. Take the leap like hardscaping, landscaping, detailing. But you's important too. Like, you don't, if you do want to get into this world, you don't have to just be in high school. Like you can quit your corporate job, right?
Yeah. You just gotta take the leap of faith. Yeah. You know, like, like Nick did and, and most people I don't think just jump off the cliff. They start doing something on the side first. Right. That sort of leads Well, I'd advise that it all comes around, uh, full circle. So when I was getting ready to quit my job, the final conversation I had to get me to quit was with Dan.
Really? I didn't tell you to quit. I, I listened to you for a long time and you already knew in your heart what you wanted to do. Yeah. Right. Because like, but I was scared. Yeah. And it was like, it's a scary moment. And then I think things start to get put in perspective and it's like, dude, you can figure this out.
Yeah. Bet on yourself. Yeah. And it, but it was, the final conversation that I had was, that's amazing. And, and I was like, you know what, oh man, let's go do, and I sold some time to like do some marketing stuff while we got the, the company rolling. And, you know, a couple months down the road it was like, Hey, actually, like the thing that we had talked about, like the company, it's working.
So dude, pre every day I come in here, my training, I look at your numbers, like the, the followers and the, the progress of your business. And it's, it's inspi. It's just fun. I mean, we're so transparency. We're our, our office is just upstairs and, and Nate's Nate's here where we are. So we get to watch each other grow.
And like we say, we're on the, we're on the first floor. Yes. We don't say we're in the basement. We say this in the first floor and it's not a church. It's a pristine office basement. Yeah, exactly. Come on gents. Um, well let's talk about that. I know we're getting close to time here on the show and we could probably do a full Joe Rogan episode here, but people are scared, like people are, are, they're on the sideline 'cause they're scared of us.
Talk through moments of that over your guys' entrepreneurial journey. Mm. Like, are there moments where you've just faced hardship and was it as bad as you thought it was? Well, my gosh, my, my brain goes a variety of different directions. Entrepreneurship is far and away the hardest thing I've ever done. Um, it also is the most rewarding thing I've ever done.
Um, so, you know, I, I think, you know, when, when you're in the corporate world, when you're, you're working at Facebook, when you're working somewhere else, like yeah, you've gotta deliver to keep your job, but somebody else has to worry about all, all the, the big things in the company to make sure that they get done.
Uh, when you're, when you're an entrepreneur Yeah. You, you're the CFO, you're the, uh, you're the CTO, you, the buck stops here, right? Yeah. But also you're the janitor. Yeah. And Right. Uh, you've got a million responsibilities. Um, so has there been more stress? Absolutely. You know, my, my brain goes to, to HR issues I've had over the years.
Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I've. And employees quit. I've had, you know, employees pass away. Uh, and it, it's absolutely like dealing with that kind of stuff, you're, you're not prepared for that in, in a corporate world because you're responsible for keeping your business going and your people It is risky Yeah. To jump into it.
And it is hard work. But I, I remember a co like just sitting in, after St. Patrick's Day party at my house, and at the time, ExactTarget had acquired business that I was a part of, and, and I, and they were paying really, really well. And I was like, Jenny, I think I gotta, I gotta go do my own thing. And, and the, and the way that I, and, and she, she was amazing too.
Like, she was like, yeah, of course you should. Because she could see eating me up inside, just like checking the boxes. Exact Target was an amazing company, but it was a big business. And she knew in my soul, like what the right thing would do was. And so when I looked at it from like, okay, if I'm on my deathbed, what am I gonna regret more?
You know, passing up the cash and the safety. Of this job, but in, in reality, like they could, they could get rid of me in a heartbeat, right? Oh, yeah. Um, or doing what's in my soul and maybe failing, but owning that and being responsible for it on my own. And so it's like, which would you, you know, regret more at the end of your life?
Not take a shot. This is not every story, but I think people are worried that they're gonna fail and it will ruin them. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. I fail all the time. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Like day and, and it's not that bad. Like it's not that bad. No. Even like the worst outcome, the business doesn't do well. I a good job.
I mean, you gotta, you can't be, you gotta be smart about, about your life. I'm not saying anybody in this show should just, you know, quit. But like, if you really thought about it and you talked to people you love and it doesn't work out and you tried and you did it with integrity, it's okay. Yeah. Like, we're not saying necessarily go like, mortgage your house and, but like.
Honestly though, like it's, look at the, if the numbers can compute on one side and it's like, oh, well, you know, if I burn through all this, like, we started getting Indiana with 25 grand and I was like, okay, if I lose all this money and no one ever buys anything, then I'll just have to go get a normal time and, and you'll be super smart.
It's like getting the NBA today, right? Yeah, absolutely. But I think that before I was so worried that it's like, oh my gosh, like I'm gonna go into personal bankruptcy and like my life will be over and I'll be unhirable and all these things. And then you kinda like get into the game a little bit and you're like, ugh.
Oh, wait. Like, and winning when, when you're an entrepreneur and failing, failing is like with your team. Yeah. So hard. But like, you know, it just, it's just a little more fun. Oh yeah, absolutely. It's just a little more fun. And you also get to design your life, uh, which is, you know, somebody else doesn't get to design your life.
I take every Wednesday off. Yeah. And I spend it with my daughter. Um, that's what I call my, my daddy daughter day. And so literally every single Wednesday I just take the day and my two and a half year old and I, we go out, we go to the park, we, we go on, you know, go on a date. We go to Cake Bake and grab her Macaronis.
Like we just go out and have some fun. I mean, I, I make up for it on weekends and, and stuff when I have to work, but, uh, but nobody can take that, take that away from me. I think that it is, uh, yeah. Entrepreneurship is just a total, it's a wild ride. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's a rollercoaster, but it's like once, I feel like once you get it.
Like, once you get the taste of it, you can't go back. Oh my gosh. I'm unemployable. Oh, yeah. I'm 100% unemployable. Like, it's just, Dan always talks about this, like he's a down and to the right kind of guy. Yeah, yeah. Like Dan is the most valuable on the first day of the business, first day company, and then every prolonging day he becomes less and less valuable.
That's, so I just, I'm trying to hire people that can scale and, and you know what I mean? Yeah. Take it over for you. Yeah. Um, I love it, gents. Uh, what's been your favorite part of, of joining Neighbor Serve and being a part of their community? My gosh. Just the, the entire team they have over there is so darn smart.
And the people that they're bringing in to, uh, to their network, uh, both from a, a customer perspective and from a fellow contractor perspective. I feel like they are just raising our game. And so we've had incredible interactions with everybody that, uh, that we've dealt with. And so, yeah, we've just been.
I've been wildly blessed from that perspective and, uh, wildly happy to, to be a part of Neighbor Serve once they figured out how to take our credit card. Yes, it took a, took a little bit, but there's no paying for leads, right? There's no, there's no none of that. No, absolute. I love it. What Dan, that's like, that's like business 1 0 1.
You gotta know how to Hey, no paying for leads. No pain. Dude, I, uh, I had that actually that conversation with one of my wrestlers. Uh, he was like, mowing lawns. And he was like, I was like, yeah, do you like, what, what kind of payment do you take? And he was like, oh, I don't know. I was like, do you have Venmo?
And he is like, that doesn't, no, I do. You have cash? And he's like, no. And I was like, dude, you gotta get something. You gotta get something. Like, take my money. Yeah. Like that's the number one that's like, I don't care how you want to pay me. I'll create all the accounts. I'm gonna make sure that we get paid.
There's, there's a classic statement. If you're not paying for the product, you are the product. Yeah, absolutely. Right. But if you're not, if you're paying for the product, you are the product. You're the product. Think about that from a Facebook perspective. No, I don't want to. I don't want to. I think that's a whole second episode we get into about like, what's it going on there?
Alright. We've come to the final. Segment of the show where we talk all things Indiana. This question is brought to you by our friends at J.C. Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences and apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homeisjchart.com. My question for you, Nick.
Dan, why do you call Indiana home? It's, it's the people man. It like, it really has been such an adjustment for us to, to know our neighbors, to have our neighbors bring our dogs back when they wander off and just ha have people that are looking out for us. I, I'll tell you, every morning I walk my dog and, uh, and I've got the kiddo and the, the stroller and the number of people who just like wave at you as you're walking around the neighborhood.
Like, it freaked me out at first. Like I thought there was something on my face when I moved out here. Um, but no, it's just everybody has that Hoosier hospitality. I, I can't imagine moving anywhere else. Couldn't I go with more? It's people. It's the Hoosiers. The Hoosiers. Come on. I, I love it. Like, Dan, you're a lifelong Hoosier, right?
That's right. For the most part. You bounce. I moved here in like fourth grade, like Denver. I I lived in Nashville, in Cincinnati for a little while. Yeah. For the most part home. Uh, I think when, when we sit on here and talk about how great Indiana is, people are okay. You're just like, Indiana guys hyping up Indiana, but someone who grew up in southern California, moved to the Bay Area, now chooses to be a Hoosier by choice.
Think about that. That is impactful. I, I wholeheartedly agree. And my parents are, are starting to get it. Like I'm, I'm trying to get 'em out here more and more just so that they can, uh, they, they can continue to, to adjust. And I, I think if they hadn't been living in Southern California for the last 35 years, they'd, uh, they'd consider it.
Yeah. Yeah. Dan, we'll go to you. Dream Indiana. Getaway the dunes. Oh yeah. I've only spent a moment up there. Uh, but man, there's a beach in, you know, Michigan City. It's, it's, I think it's two hours, door to door, 45 miles of coastline, I believe Is the number, something like that. Pretty great. Nice. Uh. Nick. Yeah.
So, uh, two of 'em, I'll say he the most beautiful property in the city. Yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah. Yeah. The wild wild venue.com. You know, we do have two houses there that people can rent, so feel free to go, uh, go check it out. It's awesome. Southern Indiana. Yeah, I, I love it down there. That actually is our vacation spot.
My wife and I, I think, are gonna head down there in a couple weeks for, uh, for a little getaway. Uh, the other one, and this is just as a, a big football fan, anytime I have the opportunity to get up to Notre Dame, like that's an incredible, incredible place to, to watch a football game. And unfortunately, I watched my Trojans lose there last time, but, uh, I think I'm gonna have to, to head up there for what might be the last game, uh, in the, the series In the rivalry.
Yeah. Yeah. What the, yeah, what's going on? I, I wish I knew. I, I, I can't get my brain wrapped around it. No, that's, that's. Terrible. Yeah, that's whoever is in charge. Marcus, fix this. Fix this. I was just up in South Bend this weekend. Yeah, we, there's just something. It was Friday morning. Yeah. Uh, so no game.
There was no game. Uh, but I was just, I woke up, I went on a run. We were staying at the hotel, like right across the street from campus. Yeah. I went on a run down through campus past the grotto, like down by touchdown. Jesus. Yeah. It was Friday morning. They were getting ready to play on Saturday. There were just smiles.
Oh yeah. Like it was, there was a crisp Northern Indiana fall day, maybe the linebacker lounge. Oh, come on now. Let's go. I, I think that's really, really good. And obviously, well, let's just do a quick plug here. Talk to us about. The wilds and there's a second venue, right? Yeah. So, uh, The Wilds is absolutely incredible.
We do anywhere from 80 to a hundred weddings a year there. It's just absolutely stunning. The fact that you can do a hundred weddings in a year. Yeah. On 52 weekends is nuts. Yeah, right. Uh, I mean, this time of year we're doing anywhere from three to four, uh, per weekend a week. Um, so yeah, it's absolutely bananas.
Um, but yeah, we've just got the best, best crew in the, the business. Uh, it's a premium venue, but I still think it's probably the best value venue in all of Indiana. How, what size. How big is this? Uh, it can hold it up to about 200 people up to about 200. And then, yeah, it's temperature controlled and all that.
It's, it's absolutely stunning. Um, and like I said, best, best crew in the business, if you can actually look it up, we have, uh, of the pure, uh, event venues in Indiana. The Wilds now has the most, uh, pure event venue in all of Indiana. Uh, five star reviews on, oh, the most Five star reviews. Yeah. Dude, I can just see you building like a full on like reminder series to get reviews from people.
Oh, oh, I mean, look at it. Yeah. I, I guarantee too, man. Yeah. Off Leash, we're doing the same thing. And then we also have Laural Mill, which is down in, um, in Heltonville. It's about 15 minutes south of Bloomington. It's an incredible venue in and of itself. It's a, a barn venue. Uh, it's, uh, even more affordable than the wilds and an even better value, I'd say, but absolutely stunning.
Wow. I'm gonna go trespass there next. Yeah. Do it. It it's a lot smaller. Uh, yeah. It won't, uh, it, it'll be more obvious if you, uh, you trespass on that one. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Don't go trespassing. Wow. I mean. Lot of five star reviews here. Yeah. Lot 431 reviews to be exact, and a five star rating, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah. 5.0. Yeah. Wait, here we go. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 out of 431 reviews. Only six are not five star. Yeah. That's pretty crazy. That's doing something right. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. If you're gonna get married, the wildest the place to go and, uh, go. Take a look at that. Right. There you go. I love that. Okay. Uh, both of you gentlemen.
One home upgrade that's worth every penny water heater. When that thing goes bad, let me, let me tell you, uh, my wife, uh, lost it one day when our water heater was down for about 12 hours. We had a plumber out and there's no, like, my, my wife has never been happier than when the hot water turned back on. Um, that said, uh, I think, uh, an easier choice is fans outside.
Uh, I dunno about you guys. Yeah, on the back porch. Um, we tend to get a lot of flies out there. We actually just the other day had, um, fans installed, uh, on our porch and it keeps the flies mostly white at this point. So, yeah, it's a good one. Huge upgrade. Love it, Dan. I love it. Uh, just like maintenance stuff, driving and cleaning, man, it's so easy, so cheap.
Keeps your house safe, like, makes your dryer work better. I mean, that's super boring. You said upgrade. So if I went upgrade, I'd probably just go with outdoor space. Yeah. Like. Dollar for dollar. It's expensive, but you know, it, it adds a ton of living space and, and your, and your property and, and value to your home, and it's good for three seasons a year.
Yeah, I love that. Outdoor space is a big one. I feel like if you used to have a place to. I dunno. Hang out outside. Yeah, I love it. It doesn't have to be crazy. These are three questions we ask every guest who comes on the show. Alright. Uh, they're all about the state of Indiana. Can't wait. So this is really interesting.
So Nick, you were born in Southern California? Yep. You spent time in the Bay Area? Yep. And then you relocated to Indiana in 2020. Yep. So you've been here for four and a half, almost five years. What's something the world needs to know about Indiana? My gosh. Uh, the food scene is actually a lot better here than I think anybody gives it credit for.
Um, I'd say that's, that's number one. Um, like my God, if, if you like American food, you're gonna crush some American food out here. Yeah. Japanese, Mexican, not, not so good. Uh, but, uh, but there's that piece. Um, and then I'd say the other thing is just what you can get here, um, is uh, for, for the price is absolutely astronomical as compared to anywhere else in the world.
I live in Carmel now, but Fishers is kind of the same. Noblesville is the same. Like you're, you can live in some of the safest, nicest places to raise a family here in Indiana for, you know, it's not cheap, but it's for a very affordable price. Yeah. Like people, people aren't. I think aware of just how crazy that is.
Uh, it was funny, I, I was reading something in the Wall Street Journal like two years ago. It's like, uh, I'm, I'm from California. How did I end up in Carmel, Indiana? And like that was my story. It was so freaking, uh, um, amazing to see it. And I think more people should be thinking about raising their family here.
Yeah. In Indy. I totally agree. Again, it's, it doesn't mean as much when we say Yeah, right? Because we've been here the whole time. But when someone who's been out and, and chose to come here from the West coast and sees that like, yeah. And, and I think there's the other side I'll say is you are four and a half years into being a Hoosier.
Yeah. And it seems from the out outside looking in that you are already well networked. Like you can come into this place, not know anyone, be holed up for three or five or six months. And so within four years, build deep. Meaningful connections and relationships and be a mover and a shaker. And you can make an impact here.
Yeah. Versus like, you go to one of these big cities and you're just number Yeah. 6,000,002, right. Or whatever. Well, and it's not exclusionary. People here are willing to pull you in and pull you in and pull you up. Mm-hmm. Did you think it was fake at first? Oh yeah. Did you think like, people were like, like, okay, what do they want from me?
Like this person, there's no way person wants to help me. A hundred percent. And then, you know, how many times, how long did you take to realize there was no catch? Uh, probably took me a year, dude. I still see that sometimes where like, uh, someone is just so nice and I'm like, bro, what do they want? What, what do they need?
It can't be real. Where's the catch? Yeah. And then you're like, oh no, this is just like, and then I think about the way you, like the way I operate. How many times do you like, okay. It starts with, uh, sourcing, referring $50 million in transactions to, uh, real estate agents here, like. They, those agents had to be thinking, okay, at some point, yeah, Nick is gonna like, send me an invoice or something.
I, I've never made a dime on that. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's important. I think that's like, I think through, uh, how we all operate and the things that we do and don't expect, uh, you know, that it kinda comes back in karma. Yeah. Like out in the universe, but it doesn't come back in like an invoice. Like, oh yeah, I'm getting, I'm getting compensated on this transaction.
Yeah. Been here four and a half years. Mm-hmm. As you've uncovered things that more people need to know about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? Well, south Bend, Indiana, uh, I'll, I'll just, uh, throw that out there right now. Uh, as somebody from Southern California, I was taught to believe that that was the, just butthole of the, the entire country.
And so that's like the Christmas story, right? Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, I'd say, say that, um, I, I would say, uh, some, some additional ones that, uh, have been wildly positive. Uh, is Brown County. I, I feel like not enough people, uh, know about it if they're not like here in Indiana. Brown County is absolutely a stunning area.
Nashville is absolutely stunning. Those mountain bike trails are insane. Oh yeah. Don't take like the black and the red trails. For granted. You will, you will die. Yeah. Go on the green and the blue. Wait, have you gone, have you gone down? Andy Medley at Per brought me and he was my guided tour guide and like he took me finally down one of the black ones and it was all the fun I could handle.
I was like, never under any circumstances am I allowed on one of those red trails. Yeah. That's so sick. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Brown County. And I do think that sometimes we take that for granted. Yeah. And like everyone's go, yeah, I know Nashville, Indiana, of course. But like, do they actually go Yeah, that's my charge.
Yeah, go ahead. We went down there for an event in, uh, in July. Yeah. It was phenomenal. Yeah. That was a cool event. And Hard Truth. Let's just be honest about it. That is one heck of a, uh, a gem there too. They've got great, great whiskey and it's a cool space to just go out there and, and check out the, the venue itself and the, the 2000 person concert venue there.
Yeah. Like what? Yeah, just like seriously on the side of a hill. It's crazy. Yeah. I love it. That, that's a really good one. Brown County. And, and I, I appreciate your willingness of being a Southern California guy and a USC grad to say South Bend. Yeah. It's very big of you. I, you know what? I, I don't feel like the, uh, the, the fighting Irish would've said the same about, uh, SCS campus.
So I've gotta just, you know, be bigger. Take the Yeah. You're being the bigger person. Absolutely. I love it. Uh, finally, this is how we source new guests and learn about other movers and shakers across Indiana, who's a Hoosier. We need to keep on our radar, someone who's doing big things. There's somebody actually within my property management network that I think is somebody you should definitely have on.
He's absolutely incredible. His name is Marty Matlock. He's been in the real estate game for. Gosh, a long time. Uh, I don't even know how long and, uh, when something, uh, when, when I had a property manager go bad on me under his brokerage, this guy, um, made me whole. He was an absolutely incredible, incredible human being.
He, in the best possible way, bought my loyalty. And for that reason, until, until he decides he doesn't wanna be a property manager anymore, he's gonna be managing my divorce. Let, let's talk about that. That is like a such a full circle moment. Yeah. Earlier in the show we talked about the best time to make a lifelong customer is on the heels of a mistake and how you handle that.
And, and there it is. Exactly. Like, tie that, put it in a boat. Tie it. Marty Matlock. Yep. What a guy. Yep. Uh, Nick, Dan, it was a pleasure today. It was awesome learning about your journey from Southern California and USC grad up to the Bay Area to work at Facebook. Started investing, got up to 70 properties here in the Hoosier State before finally.
Becoming one of us a Hoosier by choice, moving you, your wife, your family here, becoming the operator of a wedding venue. Like, oh my gosh, you've, you've done some amazing things. The Hoosier State, I, I'm the unofficial spokesperson. Very unofficial. I'll say We're lucky to have people like you in the state of Indiana building very innovative, creative things like and building cool stuff.
We need just more people like that. Well, thanks for welcoming to the state here. I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. Dan, keep up all the good work at Neighbor Serve. Awesome. He's crushing. Thanks guys. Uh, and, uh, we will talk to y'all next time. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater.
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Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hoosier State great. We'll see you next time here on Get IN.
