25% boost in happiness and employee engagement after what we've done. 11 impressions in the first 7 seconds. Holy. I want to run my own ship. This is it. I was hooked.
And what are some of the emerging trends you're seeing going into offices around Indiana? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between. This is Get In, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Today I'm joined by Melissa St. John, the high energy CEO and owner of Relocation Strategies.
They've been elevating Indiana's workplace scene for the last 18 years. She's expanded her firm's offering from move management to full service facility solutions while also championing community initiatives and motivating professionals across the state. Liz is a passionate speaker and advocate for workplace happiness and she focuses on helping others discover their strengths while building thriving environments. She's also on the exec leadership team for the American Heart Association. We're going to get into all the initiatives that are coming up in April for the Heartball and all the things going on there. We're going to be talking about Melissa's entrepreneurial beginnings 18 years ago going out and starting her firm, how companies are making their workplaces more productive, and maybe a few tips that you can implement at the office to help encourage more of the uh the Gen Z workforce to come back in in office.
and the role the American Heart Association and the Heartball that's going to be on April 25th play in the Indiana landscape. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Nate. I am pumped. I always like get to give the preface. So, Melissa and I first got introduced when her son Payton came through Chitaard and was a four-year member of our wrestling team.
Yes. And it has been a fun Now he is he graduated last year. So, he's out in the real world learning about all the real world things. Uh but it's cool to see his growth and it was cool to I mean get connected with you five years ago now and then through the time obviously like circles start to overlap and I started to learn about relocation strategies and what you were doing uh when I was working at Apex Benefits. I think you had helped with that move when they were getting into a new office and uh and things like that. So to get into it let's start 18 years ago.
What gave you the courage or the thought to go out and go on your own and start a business? I'm sorry I didn't clarify that before we started. Everyone thinks that I started the business, but I actually bought it from my boss. Oh, and you know what? That's totally okay because I I I must have left that out in my notes to you. But um so I worked for a gentleman who had founded Relocation Strategies 38 years ago.
Oh wow. And so he was my boss. And so I I want to say that still took a lot of courage because my mom was my biggest naysayer. She was like, "Oh my gosh, you can't do this. It's too difficult. you have two little boys under the age of seven and I was divorced at the time.
So she was like there's no way you can do that. So when did you start working for them? So I bought the business in 2007. So that 18 years ago but I worked for him for 2 years. And so really two years is a very short time and he just came to me one day and literally called me in his office and said my wife wants to retire. Do you want to buy the company from me?
And I just was shocked and then I said yes. I just that's like a I probably said hell yes because I just love the idea of entrepreneurship. I love the idea of you know sailing your own ship, being responsible for your own successes, being responsible for your own failures. And I think I might have been might have been a little bossy when I worked for him. We're going to redo all this marketing material. We're going to do this do this.
And he kind of was like, "Oh my goodness, she wants to run this place." So, I mean, it worked out great because I think he was kind of on the back nine and he was he was ready to retire, but I had no idea that he was grooming me. So, anyway, that's what happened. So, from 2005 2007, you're working there. What are you doing for them? So, I was a project manager.
I have an interior design degree. And so, basically, Relocation Strategies before I started only managed moves. They literally just took a company from point A to point B. They just all across the country. Yeah. All across the country.
mostly probably 80% Indiana. Okay. But they would send them out of state if they needed to. So moving from, you know, if you had if you were on the south side of India, you'd help pack up all your and move it up to the north side, but only businesses. Okay. People think I do houses.
Nope. Okay. Businesses. And and really David started the business because um he worked for a moving company. He had all that expertise and really you had executives that were like, I don't want to do anything. And so they started hiring him.
He left the moving company and just said, "I'm starting relocation strategies because I just want to help people get from one location to another and Mr. Executive, you just don't do a thing and I'll do it all." How many employees was it at the time in 2007, 2005? It was It was pretty much David, Jeff Freeman, and myself. And then you would get contractors to actually pick up the boxes and move the things. I got you.
We were the brains. They were the brun. Like we we did not I did not lift anything. So, we were the planners, you know, thought it all through, tagged everything. Um, but then what happened, Nate, like I said, I may be a little bossy, but I kind of came in and took charge and I said, "Well, why don't I start doing people's layouts of their offices? Why don't I start doing AutoCAD?
Why don't I start helping picking out furniture? Why don't I help them with, you know, the the paint on the wall and the um carpet?" And so, it really morphed into what it is today, but, you know, 18 years later, um it's so much fun. And how were people thinking about their offices and the way that things are laid out in 2007? Well, it was very different because obviously it was way before CO. Everyone went in every day.
Obviously, that's just the way it was. People had phones on their desk. They had these big monster um computers that took up tons of room. Like the general design, right? Like I feel like today when you see the Apple headquarters or the Tesla headquarters or what Facebook, Twitter, all these places, it's like they kind of set this culture for like everything has to be immaculate, brand new, modern, open concept workplaces, things like that. But in 2007, was it just like no, we set up our cubicles and and you throw the basic cheapest carpet and some paint on the walls and let's take it off.
Well, you still had people that would spend a lot of money, but I will tell you a major difference is like if you have a box, literally all the executives took every single square inch of every window around the perimeter. So, it was like big 20 by 20 offices. I mean, this room is probably 15 by 10. And imagine a 20x 20 office and everyone had a huge office around the whole perimeter. And then you had tall cubicles taller than you and I standing up in the middle and you couldn't no one could see light. No one could see anything.
So it really was all about the executives around the perimeter. And then we've shifted to now let's put the cubicles a little bit lower walls on the windows and then maybe putting the executives in the middle and having windows so the light comes in so everyone can see the light. Interesting. Okay. So 2007 the previous owner comes to you and says you want to buy this business. You say hell yes.
like where do you start? What do you what do you go do? Like do you call up a lawyer? Like where do you begin to p purchase a business? So had to get it evaluated and so really it ended up being that I hired my lawyer, he had a lawyer, he had an accountant, I had an accountant and it really was just to make sure that everybody felt like we're all on the same page. I mean, he had a purchase price he had a kind of had in mind and then I kind of went in and I It's so funny because I was like, well, I've brought in in two years I've brought in all these clients, so I'm not buying them.
So, we took that out of the purchase price and which is nice because sometime people would be like, yeah, well, you were an employee and it's business value, you know, but it's it's relationships I had from past projects. So, we stripped that out. um stripped out, you know, he was a member of a country club, took things out that had nothing to do with the value of the business. Then we really got down to the to the nuts and bolts and then we came to a dollar amount and a lot of people don't know this, but being a single mom, I mean, a lot of banks wouldn't give me a loan. So, you know what? I took out a huge home equity line on my house.
I had a house and so my mom likes to say, you know, if you failed, you would have lost your house and I would have. So, it was a very gutsy thing. took that loan out on my house, had two little kids, and then he loaned me the money. So, it was a five-year payment to pay him off. Wow. So, like some seller financing because he's like he wants to go, you know, retire with his wife and do retirement things once he go to the business.
And I think a lot of times sellers of businesses or anything like that like can get creative with those terms. Maybe they don't necessarily need a huge lump sum right now, but paid over the course of five years and looking at basically all you had to I'm assuming is like, okay, grow this business steadily and don't tank it and you'll be good. Yeah, but I could have tanked it. Yeah, that's the scary part. Well, I mean, what gave you the courage? You have two young kids at home.
You're a salaried position. You know, you're you don't have to take this risk. Like, why? Because I loved it. I mean, I just worked there with him and I loved it. everything he taught me.
I was doing everything that I loved. So, if I had a design background, he taught me the move management. I worked in a furniture dealership for seven years. So, I know every line of furniture and the discount and what it is. I just had a very wellbalanced um experience. I actually also worked in facilities.
Um so, I managed a whole facility with 2,000 people and I knew I understood, you know, it's called max moves, adds, and changes. when you tear down a cube and turn into a conference room who you have to hire electrician and I just I had such a rounded experience that I was like I want to run my own ship. This is it. I mean I I was I was hooked. Were you always risk-taking? Like like from the beginning did you always know that you're like I'm more on the risky side of of things.
I'm kind of the black sheep of the family. Oh, cuz I mean, well, and you go home and you tell your mom, I'm going to buy this business and you have, you know, moms are usually great support systems. And was that hard to be like, I know that you don't agree with this, but I'm still going to do it. Yeah, I did. I brought in two uncles, which were her brothers, and they came in and they double checked all the valuation. I I don't know that I would have done it without my two uncles.
Okay. Because they were business owners. And what were Yeah. What were their perspective? Oh, this is a good business. Yeah.
They had business owners. they were business ownership, you know, mindset. Whereas my mom, I mean, I love her. She's she's amazing, but she just wanted to protect her her baby. Yeah. You know, well, and it's like you're Oh, yeah.
By the way, I'm buying this business. I'm going to run this and I'm taking out a huge loan on my house. Yes. To put it all into this business. Yes. When was the moment when she flipped and was like, you're so brave and you did this and like, congrats.
Probably a few years because I think she was still always nervous. But I will say being a woman-owned business again, it you know, for for the I'm I'm going to say the the men out there, I'm so grateful, you know, a lot of people, you know, with diversity, I got a call probably two months later. I mean, I'm not kidding. And this and I'm not saying it's a God thing, but it was a God thing because I want you to think about November of 2007. What happened in 2008, this big big recession, and everything stopped. So, literally, I lost every account that I bought because they all tightened their belt so tight and said, "We're not spending money."
So, when you think you're buying a business and you have these accounts and they have repeat business coming in, that's what you're buying. Well, and do a lot of them have multi-moves like they're moving lots of things every year. Yes. Like for instance, one of the big accounts was Conco. And so, they that was our account. And so, basically, and that's how David and I met because we were both on the Conco.
I was a designer. He was the um person that did all the moves. So I did all the layouts. I did the furniture. The point is is if you have continuous business and that's what you buy, you're buying the business and some stability there. Yes.
So all of those clients just shut down. Shut down in 2008. They just all tightened their belt. They cut their spending. They said no spending. And you bought it in November.
I bought it in November of 07. Oh gosh. So, I'm just telling you, I was a lot thinner back then because all I ate was ramen noodles. I could not afford anything, nothing. It was very scary. So, but this is the grace of God of what happened.
So, being a woman-owned business, I got a call. I remember it was January or February of '08 when literally I was just very, very nervous and the convention center needed a womanowned business on the team to help with all the furniture. So, it was $6 million worth of furniture for the convention center expansion. And they said, "Will you help select it, pick it out, write the RFP, put it out to bid?" We came in a million dollars under budget. And it was a huge success.
And then once that went down, I started gaining the reputation that I'm saving owners money. I'm saving them time. I'm getting them quality products. I'm putting it out to bid. I'm not selling furniture. And then it just started rolling.
And it's like that time from November to January, February, you know, it's like you're like, "Oh my gosh, what have I done? I'm gonna lose the house. Like the boys now are gonna live on the street, too." Getting the call and it's, "Hey, you're in." Yes. Yeah.
It was It was good. And that was like the first big milestone of like, "Okay, we've got something here." What were some other like as you keep going, so 2008 convention center, it's still a recession, you know, people aren't even if you're really good at what you're doing and people aren't spending, there aren't they aren't spending. So, what were some of some of the next dominoes that fell into place? So, the other next domino, and again, I'm I I literally could get on my knees. I'm so grateful um you know, for the state and for the city with the WBE because I really would have shut my business down.
So, I met a gentleman at Citizens Energy and they were discussing, are we going to stay at the 2020 North Meridian or are we going to build a building or are we going to buy a building? So you have all these options. And so Kevin um Bennett was like, "Melissa, I really need your expertise and I want you on this committee that we really explore all these options." And so I started getting into this more consulting role and helping him come up with budgets and ideas and floor plans. And then my team got hired for the entire renovation of the 2020 North Meridian again because Citizens Energy wanted women and minorities on their project. So that is how I got hired.
But I ended up hiring like five people for that job and then I just started growing. So So you started putting on full-time employees. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. For sure. So you go from it was just three of you when you take then the owner bows out and I had I I don't want to say I had to let Jeff go, but there was no work.
So Jeff moved on. So just you. So you buy this business. It's just you. You lose all your customers. Yes.
And then you're like what have I done? And then, you know, first call, then citizens comes. Yes. And then you get to build your team back up. Yep. Then I hire people.
How hard was that? Like making those first few hires. Oh, petrifying. Isn't it terrifying? I mean, because you know, you're a solo entrepreneur. I didn't have a director of HR.
I didn't have a director of finance. And so, even I will tell you the first time I had to let someone go and you just wait. It's terrifying. I know, right? I mean, I literally was so terrified that my husband had to take me to the emergency room because my blood pressure was so high. I don't tell many people this cuz I like to be all strong, but it was terrifying because I had somebody tell me and and I'm just going to say it.
She was she was not my race. She was not my religion. She was um over the age of 50. And I had three attorney friends of mine from my Stanley K. Lacy class that she could shut me down and sue me if I let her go. So, I had to hire an HR consultant and say, "How do I do this without getting sued?"
And so, she walked me through the whole thing. But this this person that worked for me, she was someone that was doing my books. And I'm just saying, she had me. I mean, she had me because it's like she had all the passwords. I didn't know any of them. How do I do this?
How do I get the keys to my kingdom back without her suing me? Oh my god. So, I had an HR consultant come in and say, "This is what we're going to do, and we're going to offer her a severance package, and thank you for her service, but you've decided to outsource your books instead of having it being a full-time person in your office." So, technically, she was not let go. The position changed, and I kind of came up with some verbiage to protect myself. And then I've I've had my books outsourced ever since.
Yeah. Right. It's like I I just can't even imagine like having that first conversation and then you're hearing all this stuff and you're like, "Oh man, is this decision going to be the one that like we just made it through all this hard stuff. We're building our team back and this is the thing that's going to do us in." Yeah. That that is what about did me in.
If people ever asked me what is the hardest thing I've ever done, it would be that. It would be firing, letting go, changing the job description of that human. So, when you were out there, you know, building that initial team, where were you looking and how were you finding people to come join your solo ship, right? Like, hey, we're going to work at uh the convention center and we're going to work on Citizens. It's just me now. I bought this company not too long ago.
We're in the middle of a recession, but yeah, quit your job. Come come join our company. It's going to be great. Well, I had to I had to sign on and get that Citizens work. So, once I got that contract, I knew I could go out and hire. I knew I had had funds.
Um, and it's so funny because I I'm just very creative and I'm very scrappy. So, even being out at the track and I was in a suite and I remember how I hired one of my first employees because I literally met a guy who was an engineer and he w he I gave him my card and he goes, "Oh, I have a daughter that does interior design." And and I go, "Oh, really? What's her name?" And I hired her. I mean, it was just really knowing people.
I did not place any ads. I just found people. It's the network, right? Yeah. And that's really a lot of the ways I find people now is through the network. I just say who's looking, who wants a job and I talk to friends.
Give us a side like how big is relocation strategies today? So before CO I was up to 14 and CO about killed us because all the workplace shut down like literally. Did you have to have more hard conversations? I had to let some people go and and it really was hard because um I had one gal that was with me for seven years and I literally gave her the option. And I was like, you know, you could work part-time, work part-time somewhere else, and you know, but then that was going to mess up her benefits. And so, you know, parted with some of my team.
So, before CO, we were 14. Now, we're 11 and we're building back. And it's stronger than ever. And I actually am really proud, Nate, to say that last year was the best year of my career. No way. Yeah.
Year number 17. Yes. Year number 17 was the best one. I think it's because people were so pent up because of COVID. you know, they had projects they maybe need to renovate or or their lease was up and they needed to move and maybe they just signed on and stayed, but there was a lot of pent up and then it all just kind of got unleashed last year. Well, what was like because at first it's all about moving and how did that strategy from like interior like workplace design, where did that start to bubble up at and obviously co no one's going anywhere doing anything like no one's moving anything.
Just talk to me about that transition from just moving from point A to point B to designing spaces. It really just kind of happened naturally because uh David, my boss, you know, obviously had some existing clients. And I started going back and calling them and saying, you know, hey, I know your lease is up in two years and I know you should be moving. I would keep track of that type of stuff. And I would just ask I would just say, hey, do you need help with your with your layout, with your space plan? Do you need help with your finishes?
And if I already had the trust of those existing clients, they gave us an opportunity. So we just started doing it and doing it and doing it and then right after COVID I started a new division called Reload Design and but we'd been doing it for many many years but I think it just defines that we are designers. Well when you're talking with executives that are redesigning their workspaces in the postcoavid era what are they thinking about and and what are the ways that you're suggesting or you're seeing businesses can make changes to bring people back into the workplace? Oh that's a great question. I'm going to talk a second about my 26-year-old son. He has worked from home for almost five years.
He has loved it, but I will say he's kind of an introvert, but this is what executives are dealing with. How do you get those I don't want to say young people, but you know, how do you get any people? Well, say I was the last class I graduated from college in 2019. So, I was in the office for nine months and then co hit and then co hit. Yeah. I think it was nine months.
Yeah. That would have been March. So, from June to March. So, I remember I was like 8 to 5 at your desk doing all stuff and then all of a sudden we're all work from home and it was it was crazy. But now now it's like oh that is just so foreign and different the idea of being in every single day for eight plus hours. Yeah.
Like wow I love being in the office. Like I I think it's it's really productive for me to get out of my home and talk to people but I'm an extrovert. I'm like the extrovertiest extrovert. So it makes sense why I like it. But uh but what are business owners thinking about of how to get your 26-year-old someone who might be a little bit of an introvert into an office? Yes.
So, first off, let's say 50% of humans are introverts. Okay. So, we really have to think about how are we getting them in because you and I want to be in. We want to be talking to people and collaborating and I'm the reason that the workplace is loud and everyone's distracted. Like that is me. That's my fault.
And I I was telling my client yesterday, the number one problem in offices right now is noise. It's just it's so distracting because if you have a whole sea of cubicles and you have eight people that are on Teams calls, the person that's sitting between three people talking, they literally just want to poke their eyes out because it's so loud. So, what I'm saying to executives is like for my office, I have a protocol and I say if you're going to be on a team's call, because I kind of have an open area where people are in cubicles, you need to get up, go into a room, shut the door. You got to be considerate to everybody else. But the problem is a lot of these offices, Nate, don't have small conference rooms. They don't have phone booths.
They don't have little huddle rooms. They don't have little rooms for people to go into. So, and you need somewhat protocols for those rooms because guess what? The introverts will go sit in those rooms and they'll shut the door and they won't come out for all day and then no one can use it. So, there needs to be some type of um protocol, but I would say you have to figure out the noise issues. So, some people put in sound masking.
It's that swishing noise in the ceiling because if someone is 10 feet away and they hear part of your weekend plans, they're going to stop everything to hear the end of your story. Yeah. But if they only hear a little mumble here or there, and that's what the sound masking does, it's going to keep them on task because most people take 20 minutes to get back on task if I've just heard your weekend plans. Oh god. Cry cuz my heart's pounding and I'm like, "Oh my god, I want to do that." Quick pause to tell you about one of my new favorite spots in Indianapolis, Back N golf.
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Tell them you heard about it on Get In. So, having people concentrate and so my main goal is to have companies be productive cuz me as an owner, I want my people to be productive. I don't want people being distracted or frustrated. So, to try to keep the office somewhat quiet. I'm not saying people can't talk, but it's like if you're going to be on a long team's call, 30 minute call, get up, go on another room. If they don't have those rooms, they need those rooms.
They need to convert an office where somebody's only coming in two days a week, convert it into like a little huddle phone room or teams room, but it just helps with everyone. So, it's not too noisy. You can the introverts can go have their quiet. But then the other thing everyone loves is the social hub. Are you familiar with what I'm Yeah. like Apex made that whole back room kind of a social hub.
We we did a survey for them. We asked them what was important. I know that you needed or Apex needed a big breakout room with with movable walls and chairs so they can turn it into meeting rooms. But everybody loves the social hub because more and more employers are bringing in specialty coffee. They're bringing in snacks. So my 26-year-old son did go back to work and he is so excited.
I couldn't believe it. But he's like, "Mom, they're they're giving us all kinds of snacks and coffee and pop and and sandwiches and taco Tuesday." And so he's 26 and he is loving it. So I'm happy for him. That's a piece of you come in and you get the lunch and the coffee and stuff, but if the space isn't optimized for it, like no amount of cheeits or whatever are going to make up for not being able to focus or get any work done. So I do think it's a definitely a healthy balance.
I'm curious, how do you see balancing these open concept cool looking offices with productivity, right? Like the easy thing that sounds like is go back to massive cubicles, put people in their little boxes and like this is your productivity hub, like go go go. And so how do you feel like owners are balancing the open concept, building culture where people talk to each other and you know enjoy work, but also having the heads down space to focus? So, the way my office is, and again, I I love my office, is I wish I had a little sketchboard here, but I want you to imagine like a a fourpack of cubes, but what I did was I made a table in the middle of of four cubes, but all of these uh four project managers, designers, they can all turn around and talk to each other, but they can also work in that corner and face the corner and not have any distractions. So, these walls are tall, but then this is all open in the middle.
So, so it's it's a team. So, they truly are a team instead because I I I firmly believe if you put someone in just a big tall wall, they're going to they're going to not only feel isolated, but people don't really want to get up and walk around those cubes. They'd rather sit and then your communication breaks down because they're only texting or they're only emailing. So if these if my four project managers, you know, in a fourack can turn around and talk to somebody that's only 10 feet away and they're not separated by walls, that's how you lay it out to try to have teamwork, collaboration. The more that they can talk and, you know, pop over. Hey, did you happen to see?
But it's always a balance, right? Because it's like you don't want to be the person that's too annoying in the office, it's always like jibber jabbering, but also having that community, building culture, all that fun stuff. We also have stop signs. Do you know what that is? Is that where it's like, "Hey, don't mess with me." Yeah.
Yeah. So, so if my person's facing their tall wall and they're working on the computer or maybe they're counting cubicles or they're doing something that that is important, they will put up a stop sign and that means this person's not going to yell at them or walk over. So, we all just try to respect each other's work time. What other strategies do you have for business owners to improve their workplace to help market to more Gen Z employees? When you walk into a space, when you have an interview with someone, it's no different than than a date, you know, your first date. And I learned this because I was single for 10 years.
Um, you make 11 impressions in seven seconds. So whether that's dating, whether it's walking into an office space. So if you're interviewing that person, I know people in HR talk about ghosting. That person might walk in and go, "Oh gosh, they're making 11 impressions about your office." And the thing is, if it's drab, it's not lit well, it's cold, it smells funny, they're not going to come back. They just ghost.
11 impressions in the first seven seconds. Holy. I mean, that is research. That's psychology. And so, you always have to make a good first impression. So, when people walk in and they see the office and it looks terrible, they You're right.
It could be laid out great, but if the colors are from, you know, we're redoing a construction firm right now. The colors in that office are from 1980. Oh. And I literally went to them and I just said, "You know what? We need to update this because you need staff to come in and want to be here and be excited and have pride and not bring your wife in and have the wife go, "Oh gosh, this is from 1980." You know what I mean?
So, it's about the aesthetics. It's about how they feel. It's about, you know, is it clean? Is it well lit? I mean, all those things come into play. But if people are on really tight budgets, I'm like, please just get the first impression.
Get the reception area. Get the front area because even you have reps or you have the mailman or whoever coming in, you want them to have a really good first impression when they walk in. Okay. So, it starts with the first impression. You want to recruit better talent. Even if when you go back out into the main space, you're still working on that.
Start with the first impression. uh specifically for Gen Z, like what are you seeing that this younger workforce, you know, 26 below year olds, like what do they like to see in the office and what are ways that business owners could make their office more appealing? I know that this had nothing to do with the office, but I do want to tell you that I had never heard of this, but my son who lives in Raleigh, he's like, "They gave me a a a driving stipen because you know what? He was saying how he hadn't driven anywhere and worked from home for 5 years. They gave him a gas stipen. I don't care if you're a business owner and that is a $100 a month.
He was so excited about that. I was like a hundred bucks for gas. I know. I was just like seriously they could just add on to your salary, but I think it was just the fact that they were doing things to be thoughtful towards him. I would say you want to think of things that you can offer at the office that they can't do at home. Like I'm going to tell you and and I think a lot of it is activity based as well.
So, if you have a room, um, I had everyone in my office come and do a show and share. Literally, I bought them all lunch and we did a show and share. We did this on Monday. I put it on my LinkedIn, but somebody brought in, you know, some blowing glass that they did. I brought in a painting that I had done. Somebody, it's things anybody had made or worked on.
I had I have an employee that crochets. So, everybody brought in something and they were so proud, you know, but it's taking that time, you know, to to have activities with your people. But you have to have a room obviously for them to do that in comfortable chairs. I I was just at a client's office yesterday and she goes, "Oh my gosh, everyone hates these chairs. I need you to help me find new chairs." Because people are all complaining.
So I am not in the business of doing employee engagement surveys, but finding out with a survey what would make their life better because you just don't know. And it's interesting when you think about a business owner, it's it's the marketing of it, right? If you look at like employee satisfaction, if you gave them an extra $100 a month on their paycheck or you gave them a $100 gas card, it's more thoughtful. It is like it's going to make an outsized impact. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to spend like, oh well, we're just going to cover up all the problems by adding some dollars to their paycheck. It's like be thoughtful and think about, you know, oh, you're worried about parking or you're worried about gas or whatever the thing is, you know, like you can find something for cheaper that will make a larger impact than just adding, oh, he'll give you $50 on your face because you care about them.
Yeah. And another thing I do, I'm waiting to see your facial expression. I have massage Mondays. Oh, massage Mondays. I have a masseuse come in and if people don't want it, they don't have to do it. But, you know, I pay for them to have a 20 minute massage and if they want a tip, that's fine.
But I I give the person a tip. But I'm saying I do it because I know everybody likes it. I know no one else that I know offers that. Massage Mondays. Hell yeah. I have to do things to keep my employees happy.
Yeah. I have to do things. I cannot afford as a small business to have my employees get swooped away by a huge big company because it's very disruptive. I think that man and you think of employee retention strategy going all the way down to the workspace like from the first impression are your employees do they have a smile on their face when they walk through the door because they're happy to be in the space they have they're happy to come to Massage Monday right y wow I I hadn't I guess I hadn't thought about all the different things but for a small business when you lose a key employee it's terrible oh my gosh cuz you have to you're like pushing this giant boulder already entrepreneurship's hard you're pushing this giant boulder then you lose lose one of your pushers and then you bring someone new in and you have to like you you're going to roll down the hill while you're getting them up to speed to start pushing.
Yes. And all of a sudden you lose six months when you could have been way further ahead. Yep. Wow. What other strategies do you see business owners using to attract and retain the top talent? Well, I'm going to I'm going to say a statistic first.
Did you know that 70% of the workforce is disengaged? I could believe that. That is that is terrible. We are at an all-time low for people being happy and engaged. So, I'm very cognizant of that and I'm just telling you I do anything to try to get them engaged and I know there's all kinds of consultants with engagement and all that, but I'm all about being human. You know, asking my people, what do you need?
What do you think? Giving them a say. I mean, it's I have never been a dictator leader. I've always been an inclusive, you know, get around the table, try to get everyone involved because they're happy, you know, and when they're happy, they have pride in their work. work and if they have pride in their work that my clients are happy. So, it's just this big circle.
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Where are you getting inspiration for what you're doing within Indiana offices? Well, being an interior designer, I just I grew up always wanting to arrange the room to make it the the best layout. You know, it's like if the window's over here and I want to sit and not face the sun and have my back just thinking about I'm I'm very spatial. Yeah. So, I I'm just born that way. But I think my biggest satisfaction, okay, and people may think I'm crazy to say this, but we actually have surveys that go out to our clients and we've asked them, we've said, "How much did your productivity and employee engagement go up after we worked on your office?"
And we gave them a, you know, a 10%, a 20%, a 50%. The average number is a 25% boost in happiness and employee engagement after what we've done because we've asked them in our surveys. So if you ask them in a survey, so is my life better now in this new office than it was in our old office? Yes. Like when we surveyed WFYI, we we surveyed all of their employees and it it depends on the demographic. So in terms of like is it is WFYI mostly women?
That's why we heard back that they wanted to have yoga mats and mirrors and balls. And I'm not an expert on this, but I know that we've done surveys in other companies where they have more men and they want cardio and they want weights. So, it's like give them what they want. Yeah. And they will come and they will stay and they will be happy. So, in terms of, you know, just asking people in surveys.
So, we have a survey, we have it patent pending, it's called our workplace productivity analysis survey. We gave one to 400 people at Delta Faucet. We just did AES, nine floors on the circle downtown. But it's it's to try to figure out what do they need to be productive. We're not asking them, do you need a skylight? Do you need a hot tub?
We're saying what do you need to be productive? And you're giving them choices. And you'd be surprised what the results are. I was going to say, what are some of the emerging trends you're seeing going into offices around Indiana? Well, number one, number one is it's too noisy. Okay.
So, fixing the sound thing. It's too noisy. So, you need to put in sound masking. You need to um figure out a way to have a protocol where people go into rooms. Um so, number one, too noisy. And then number two, there's not enough places to go to have to have a private conversation.
So, if you're out in a big cube bullpin, where are you going to go and talk about your private doctor's issue? Where are you going to go? I mean, I interviewed um a company and the CFO told me he wanted to design his space and he said, "My old office," he goes, "It was so awful. They had everyone in cubes, there was not one office." And he said, "And I had to go into a stairwell to have a private conversation." He goes, "I'm the CFO.
I have about 10 private conversations a day." He said, "But everybody was in the little small rooms and they wouldn't come out for eight hours." So, it was it wasn't managed well. So, it's a fine dance. Yeah. And setting those protocols where it's like, hey, this isn't like your little private office or the day.
It's like you go in there for calls. Yes. Wow. Okay. So, noise places for conversation. Are there other trends you see emerging?
I I definitely think having um the colors be updated. So, for instance, I literally just got all new carpet in my office. And you know why? Because it was time. We just had some. It was outdated.
I literally asked my employees. I said, "You guys pick out whatever you want. we'll figure it out. And so they laid it out, gave me two or three options. When it was time to um refresh the office, you know, three years ago, I said, you know, hey, let let's put this whole wall. Let's just have it be an accent wall.
Let's pick some wallpaper. Everybody kind of had a say. I'm not saying let them design it, but it you can kind of see the trend where I'm giving the power to the people, asking them what they want. Your company culture kind of bleeds into the vibe of and the design of the the space. That makes sense. Are there any Have you ever gotten like silly recommendations where you're talking to someone, they're like, "We really want a hot tub.
We really really want nothing crazy. People are pretty reasonable." Nothing. Well, is there like anything you've seen in an office or you're just like I don't know why they have that or how they have that, but it's it's interesting. I mean, some people put in, you know, waterfalls or you've seen some weird things. I know right now the trend is everybody are putting these moss walls on the wall and I'm and I'm curious to see how I'm not saying how long that lasts, but I do know that there is research that the more plants you put in people's offices, the more at home they feel.
So, I'm going to throw a word out to you. Um, it's called resomeial. So, you have commercial and then you have residential. And if you can make your office more resome, resome, people feel more at home. Yeah. So more plants, more you know, you're just you're feeling much more relaxed.
So one of the things that I did at my office and I recommend it to people and and some people like it, some people don't, but it had just a real stale um conference table. It was a room this size and it just had a conference table with six chairs. And I just said, you know what? Let's just take that out of there and let's call it our living room. So, I literally put an L-shaped couch, a recliner chair, a TV, um an ottoman, so people could literally kick their feet up, put it on the ottoman, and we go into the living room. So, I mean, I have reviews in my living room.
I have discussions in the living room because it's just it's it's resial. Resomer. That's that's good stuff. Yeah. I love that. Well, the thing I want to round out the episode is is by talking about your work with the American Heart Association.
And I know that there's a really impactful story of how you ended up getting tied to this cause. Yes. And you want to give me a little background probably what 18 20 years ago that you were first impacted and you know got hooked into the American Heart Association. Sure. Sure. I have been raising money for the heart association since 2000.
My daughter was born with um 10 congenital heart defects. There are 35 total. And so she was born with 10 and had two open heart surgeries at Riley. And unfortunately, she did not make it. And I was raising money before she passed um taking her to heart walks. And the people that were um like heart uh surgery survivors would wear like a red hat and they'd walk in the heart.
So all those were the heart survivors. She was the youngest one with a little red hat and everybody's carrying her around. Um, but anyway, after she passed, I started to really dig in and say, I cannot believe that more people don't know that it's the number one cause of death. And children under the age of two, maybe they're not getting autopsies. Maybe they're just writing it off as a, you know, they're SIDS. They're falling asleep and they're they're not get finding out what happened, but under the age of two, it's the number one cause of death in children.
Women, it's the number one cause of death. And men, it's the number one cause of death. So why is there five times the amount of money raised for cancer? Five. So I've just been on a mission to raise funds. So I'm on the executive leadership team for the Heartball, which is coming up on April 25th.
And we're looking for people that want to buy tables, that want to have sponsorship. And it's just it's my cause. It's my passion because um when she had her surgery and that was in 2000, so right after she was born, they basically said to me, "One out of 20 kiddos will make this surgery." One out of 20 kiddos will make the surgery. That's how there was no research really for kids back then and they're born with it. So then fast forward now and I hear that kiddos that go into that open heart surgery only one out of 20 pass.
Oh. So it's flipped. So from 5% to 95% survival rate. Yes. Yes. Wow.
In 20 years. And I'm not seriously I'm not saying it's because of me, but I was a pain in their ass. I was going up to Chicago. I was causing all kinds of ruckus. I was like, "If you don't want me going on the Today Show talking about this, then you're going to start giving more of the dollar to kiddos." Because like when I started walking in the Heartwalks, it was it was small.
I mean, it was only like maybe um one or two cents out of the dollar that they gave to kids and the rest went to smoking, overweight, you know, people that were causing it on themselves. Sorry. Sorry. I'm just gonna say Yeah. Yeah. No, that's the point.
But I was a very Don't mess with the the lioness when her cub is. So, so I I pounded and I it's a long story I won't go into, but I I just I caused a lot of trouble and they raise a lot of money for kids now. And how have you been impacted by the American Heart Association? Like what are the obviously the walk and the ball and those things, but like what other ways are they making an impact on heart disease in in America and beyond? Well, they're having more um AEDs go into gyms into school gyms because you hear of kids that just drop dead after playing basketball. Well, guess what?
They have a congenal heart defect and their parents never knew. How can you find out if you have this? You have to go get an echo cardiogram. Oh. So, did you know that one day when you have a child, it is state law that they have to test their hearing, but they don't test their heart. So you don't know unless you go and you ask your doctor for an echo cardiogram if your child will have a congenital heart defect.
You don't know. So the heart association is just trying to have more awareness. They're putting the, you know, the defibrills, the AED things, you know, in gyms and whatnot. And I know there's states around the the country that are trying to pass legislation to say you have to have your child have their heart tested, you know, before they go home from the hospital. That's crazy. And I always hear like heart disease, right?
that's like the number one cause of death. But it's just heart disease. It just seems so maybe vague where everyone's like cancer, cancer is the and cancer is the enemy. I'm not saying that we shouldn't put money in cancer, right? It but like it is the number one I'm pretty sure I've seen this stat, right? The number one leading cause of death for Americans.
And I would say probably a large majority of that comes from personal decisions that people make that put themselves in stress out their heart. But for these kids that are born with congenital Yeah. heart defects. Yes, man. But I I will say that's that's hopeful that in 24 25 years flip from 5% survival rate to a 95% survival rate. Uh how can people get involved with the American Heart Association?
So they can go to the American Heart Association website. I mean feel free to contact me on LinkedIn, Melissa St. John. I just would love to see people come out and go to the Heartball. Um they have so many events. They have um Go Red for Women.
They have hard hats um which is kind of like more for construction um industry to get involved. They're everywhere. There's so many events. There's Heartwalk. It's it's whatever is a good fit for you. But April 25th is the Heartball.
Tell us about that. Yes. So the Heartball um is pretty amazing. Everybody gets all glammed up and adult prom. Um yeah. Yeah.
Adult prom. And um it's so funny because last year Pton, my son, was there doing the photo booth and I didn't know he was going to be there. He just told me he had to go to work. So, they have a little photo booth. They're taking pictures of everybody. Every year there's um a chair of the Heartball and they have a team.
So, I'm on the team to try to sell tickets and raise money and um sponsorship. But, it's a lovely event and they'll probably have someone. It's going to it's going to be downtown at the Weston Friday, April 25th. Thank you. Thank you. The Indianapolis Heart and Stroke Ball.
Yes. And so, I was just recently on the team with uh Nick Shelinger. He's with Garmong. He's 40. He was 40 years old and he had a stroke and he was in the hospital for almost two weeks. He told his story and our team raised $250,000 in honor of him.
And so I I'm just And you said he was the second leading the second highest raising impact leader for the heart association in the country. some guy from California came in and donated $250,000 like right because he saw that's what we had at the whistle and and he and he beat us. But um yeah, Nick worked really hard. But uh that's incredible. A quarter million dollars raised in seven weeks. Seven weeks.
In seven weeks. And when you're impacted by something, a stroke of 40, like that's legit. That's scary stuff. He has two little kids. But he really was compelled to tell his story. And do you know why?
He hadn't been to the doctor in 10 years. So, he didn't know he had any problems. So, here it is. You need to go out. I need to go out and go to the doctor and get the checkup. Yes.
Maybe get an EKG. Well, you can just go get your test for like $99. There's places at like community hospital or, you know, where you can just go get a heart scan for $99. I mean, like almost all the hospitals have it. And that's the thing, right? It's like when you're young, you're like, I'm invincible.
I'm fine. I don't need to go do that. Like I wrestle all winter long with the boys. Like I'm always working out. And then it's like it doesn't you can be healthy and still have these issues. You can that there's our call for the day, right?
Silent killer. Silent killer. And and I know why um cancer raises five times as much. It's because the the poor souls that have cancer, you have to see them suffer with no hair. You have to see them suffer getting sick from chemo. Heart people just die.
Yeah. They just die. They just drop dead. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, there's not this long period of time where the awareness everyone it does seem is like impacted by someone with cancer and you watch that journey happen over the course of, you know, months and months and months versus Yeah.
You know, you're just your heart stops working. It there's not a there's not a process after that. Yeah. Cuz when I would take my daughter to the heart walks and she would be the only child wearing the little red hat, it's cuz the rest of them died. Oh, man. Cuz she had two open hearts.
So, but in in two years, um, she was only 16 months. Yeah. Oh, man. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Well, thank you.
It was terrible. I would I would I do this because I don't want anyone else to go through it. I would be up in arms and trying to go and raise more money and stir up everything, trying to make this happen and trying to help prevent other mothers and fathers from that hurt. Absolutely. So, it makes sense. It comes full circle.
It's like, yes, you you know, you go and and have sometimes you just have to keep I mean, it's just like entrepreneurship, right? You have to just keep going for what you're trying to the change you're trying to make. Well, man, thank you so much for sharing that story and talking about your work both with Relocation Strategies and with the American Heart Association. We're going to wrap out with some fun questions. We kind of go into the lightning round here. First question for you.
We're going to do some workplace ones. Standing desk or yoga ball. Which Which one you put on? Standing desk for sure. More used. Yeah, everyone's asking for standing desks.
Everyone favorite architectural style for a corporate space? You know, I've always liked Franklidd Wright, but I know that's not hugely popular right now, but I'm kind of an old old style. Yeah. Um, it's classic. I love Franklidd Wright. Okay.
What's a must-have element in your social hub? A very very expensive coffee machine. Yes. Because I'm telling you what, Delta Faucet just put in the most awesome coffee machine and they just get all raving reviews. Heck yeah. Great coffee maker.
That that'll get the job done. Yes. What's the coolest office feature you've seen that boosts morale? Flexibility. Cuz cuz what I mean by that is I I don't want to say old dogs like me, but the difference between me and you is that I got my job and I sat at my desk and I plugged my computer in and I never moved. The people of the younger generation, they're used to taking their technology anywhere.
So give people flexibility. So, if one day they want to work in the desk, one day they want to work in the living room on the sofa, one day they want to give them flexibility to move around cuz sometimes changing your scenery can like change the head space that you're in and you can like, you know, maybe the living room's where they're doing their creative work and if they have to grind and be heads down, they're in their cube and if they need to have a meeting, it's like on a patio or something, you know? I totally agree with that. There are lots of times that I need to change up my location to change up how I'm feeling internally, like depending on the work I have to do. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that's really good.
Um, this next question is brought to you by our friends at Or Fellowship. They're a great organization here in Indiana helping develop young business leaders across the state. Melissa, what advice would you give to your 22-year-old self? I would say get as many mentors as you can, as many mentors. Because at the time, you know, when I purchased the business, I was not 22. So when I was 22, I don't know that I had any mentors.
I mean, I love my parents dearly, but they're not business owners. Yeah. And I was really thirsty to learn about how does business work. So, I would definitely get mentors. I would call someone up. I mean, this is kind of I'm putting it out there, but I have a lot of friends that have kids and they call me and they say, "Hey, can they just come in and talk to you for an hour?"
And just to get advice, you know, do you know this person or that person and why don't you try this? It's a different perspective than your parents. Yes. Because when your obviously, you know, right? When when a parent tells a kid something, they don't want to listen to it, right? They're like, "Yeah, I'm doing the, "Oh, you want me to go to college?
I'm going the exact opposite route, right?" Or, "I'm going to go find whatever else. You want me to go to bed at 9:00? I'm going to bed at 9:00 a. m." Yeah.
And I'm going to get emotional, but you were the most amazing mentor for my son. And I've told you that he he needed a mentor. He needed a mentor, and you were it. He is a a remarkable young man and went through a full character arc in his time in high school and by the end went from, you know, on the team still kind of figuring it out when he was a freshman to senior. He was like the most dedicated captain. Like went out of his way to help his teammates thrive in the space.
But you taught him that. Yeah. You had good parents. You're awesome. There you go. You're awesome.
Uh I appreciate you and I appreciate Pton. Maybe he'll see the clip. We're going to round it out. These are the same three questions that I ask everyone. So, the first one I'm going to ask, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana? That we're so friendly and nice.
Every single person I meet, like for instance, I just did yoga last night with a gal that just moved here from California. And I seriously said to her, I said, "What has been the most wonderful surprise?" She said, "Everyone is so kind and and just good people." And I was so happy to hear that. Oh, yeah. That gets me pumped up.
Every time you talk to people that have come from out of state, they're like, "Wow." like it's not a facade that these people are really just nice. They're just good people. I mean, you ask them for help, they'll dig in. They'll give you help. You know, there's so many things about Indiana.
I love I mean, racing capital of the world. I mean, all the sports, all the I mean, but I think for me, it's the people. Absolutely. Uh the people that don't if you don't appreciate the people and you want the beaches or mountains, go experience that. And when you come home, it'll be like, "Wow, these people are good." And and that's where I feel like a lot of people lay down roots in Indiana and just like, you know, really really build those relationships.
a tight-knit community. I mean, we really do. It's not seven degrees of separation. It's two degrees. And if I need something, I can call someone who can get it for me. Amen.
All right. Here we go. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? I don't know that most people know that you can go to the top of the monument in Monument Circle. I don't know that most people know that. And I took my kids there for spring break.
I remember taking Payton when he was like seven or eight. I Yeah. Second or third grade. And I took three of his friends. They got the biggest kick out of it. You can take an elevator to the top of Monument Circle and look out.
Wow. Nobody knows that. The Soldier and Sailors Monument. Yeah. For a For $3 to use the elevator, you can go to the top of the monument. I wonder if it's only open specific times.
Wow. It's the coolest thing. Especially for kids. So cool. It's a cool view. It's just It's so cool.
Nobody knows about that. Oh, it it literally has like how many steps? Okay. The observatory can be reached by climbing 330 steps at no charge or by riding an elevator for a small fee. Visitors must still walk the 49 steps to get up to the observation level. So, they literally like 379 steps can get you uh 231 ft above street level.
Wow. For spring break, you took Payton. They love that. Oh, I bet a bunch of your second, third grade, whatever. You're like, "This is so cool." Oh, they loved it.
Like, heck yeah. All right, that is a really good hidden gem that I've never had anyone say. Wow. Final question for you. Who's a Hooer that we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things.
Allison Barber. Oh, yeah. She came on the pod maybe two or three months ago. Fantastic. I love her. And so cool to kind of come in with the fever.
I think it was right after they had won a championship, maybe 2012. She joined. They were kind of in a downside. get to like ride it to the highest of highs, right? Uh and now she's going up to work on the Marll project and is doing amazing things to really position Indiana as the leader in sport for girls and for females. Yeah.
I mean, everything she touches turns to gold. She's she's amazing. I I love that. She was an awesome guest. Great back I mean and just like a true competitor. You talk about like a sports background like the perfect person to be working in what she's doing.
Absolutely amazing. Well, hey Melissa, thank you so much for coming on. This has been super fun. I'm glad that through the wrestling chhatard community that uh and Payton that we ended up getting connected here and it was great to learn a little bit more about your story over the last 18 years of working with Relocation Strategies and the different changes, the times that the hard times, right, and how to persevere through there. I think it's a a testament for entrepreneurs out there to just go and make it happen. Make it happen.
Absolutely. Well, hey, appreciate it and we'll talk soon. Thank you, Nate. Thank you for listening to this episode of Get In. If you like what you heard, make sure you leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts, this show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all of my gear recommendations at sweetwater.
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