City for Health: The Massive Project Changing Indianapolis Forever

I like complex things. Most would say it's impossible. You're attempting to boil the ocean.

Help do all these different pieces. In 10 years, you look back and it's like, oh, it's it's working.

Positioning the district to be the desired place for folks to come and and reside. Everything around you is going to promote health and wellbeing.

How does the Indie Health District prepare Indianapolis for expansive growth, you know, over the next 5 to 10 years? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. Hey there. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to take a minute to thank the folks that made this nonprofit spotlight series possible, Elements Financial. As a credit union, they're a notfor-profit financial institution built on the idea of empowering individuals to achieve financial success.

And they've been doing just that for 95 years, starting right here in Indiana. Now, they're based in Indie and proud to support Hoosiers, but their reach goes way beyond state lines. And they don't just talk about impact, they live it. Elements teaches more than 1,000 financial wellness classes annually. They pay their employees to volunteer, and they donate 1% of net profits to causes that improve lives. So, yeah, it made perfect sense for them to back this series because when it comes to supporting people doing good, Elements cares.

Learn more at elements. org/getin. That's elements. org/getin and use code getin. Elements Financial, like a bank, only better. Federally insured by NCUA.

Now, let's get into this special nonprofit spotlight episode presented by Elements Financial. Today, I'm joined by Jamal Smith, executive director of the Indie Health District, a groundbreaking nonprofit dedicated to improving quality of life in five historic Indianapolis neighborhoods through health, housing, and community development. Jamal has a background in leadership, advocacy, and civic engagement. He has been a driving force behind the transformational projects like the $8 million affordable housing development at 22nd Illinois. If you've driven downtown, you've probably seen this. His mission is simple but ambitious.

Build healthier, more connected neighborhoods for all Hoosiers. I'm really excited to have you on the show, Jamal. Welcome to Get

Absolutely. Appreciate you, Nate, man. Thanks for having me.

Uh, dude, uh,

I got to match your energy. Like, I don't know if you have guests come on here. It's hard if if they don't match that energy, then it's a dud. So, way to way to set the tone.

We We're here to be fun and exciting. We're talking about fun things happen throughout the state of Indiana. Uh and I am just a really easily excitable gentleman. So,

no, it's good. Setting the tone is important. You're like the point guard, you know, so use a use a basketball analogy. And

well, well,

I like to shoot the ball. So, this good. It's going to work. Great.

This is perfect. Let's get you with a little oop here. Well, uh we're talking about the Indie Health District today. And I think the first thing we have to do before we get into your background or just anything here is set the scene for what the Indie Health District is. Absolutely.

Uh because I think that sometimes this might get confused with the new hospital project that's happening down there like the IU Health campus and and this is a little bit different and it's a little bit bigger um and the way that you're impacting our downtown Indianapolis community here. So set the scene for us.

Absolutely. So the Indie Health District, if you think I always say think of the district in two terms. One, it's a physical space. It's a place you can go visit, right? Um southern borders include St. Clair Street to the south for the most part.

Meridian to the east. So it goes all the way over to Meridian, heads north all the way up to about 36th Street, just shy of 37th. Heads west all the way to MLK. As it comes down MLK, it hits the creek, dog legs west around the creek, hits Indiana Avenue, and then back to Sinclair Street. So, a little over 1500 acres of, let's call it real estate, right? It includes five historic neighborhoods, Crown Hill neighborhood, Meridian Highland neighborhood, the Highland Vicinity neighborhood, Ransom Place neighborhoods, and then of course the historic Fleer House Homes neighborhood.

There's roughly about 9 thou a little over 9,000 people who currently reside in the district. Little more than 30,000 people are in and out of the district on a daily basis. Um the other way that I say think about the district is that the India Health District Inc. is a new nonprofit. 501c3 responsible for stewarding the mission and vision of the district. Right?

So you might you know you might say well what is it? What is the mission and vision? Um, currently if you live in that footprint that I just described, the census track data says that you're scheduled to die in your mid60s, not get sick, not sprain an ankle, not catch, you're you're scheduled to die. And and much of that has more to do with social, environmental, and economic factors than does even your access to the hospital, which is also anchored in the in the in the district. Um, so the Indie Health District's mission is to address all of the social impediments of of health that negatively impact that life expectancy whether directly or indirectly. So, you know, of course, health access is one of them, but so too is the ability to afford where you live.

So, affordable housing. Um, we want to have adequate education. So, we want to improve the lotment of education in the space. Um, child care. Can you afford childcare? Do you make a livable wage?

We want to support and invest in workforce development. and and then some of the soft things like parks and trails and bike paths etc. All of which are uh uh charged by uh the district. So if you think about it in comparison to like an innovation district massav or 16

tech 16 16 tech or or entertainment district more like massav um and there's others across the country or medical district others ac those things combined and it's over 1500 acres which makes it one of the if not the largest one in the country. I think that there's a there's a really interesting graph map chart. Yeah. One of those three words on your guys's site that says the average uh life expectancy in that health district in Indianapolis 66 years old versus 91 years old in Caramel.

If you're in Caramel. Yeah.

That's why like you're 15 miles like geographically like maybe I don't even know if it's that could be 10.

Yeah, it's less than 10. And it's insane to say your your your zip code or your address should dictate how long you live. Think about that.

Yeah.

It's nuts.

When looking at that, right, like how long has this been in the works? Because it would be interesting too if like you think about where the new IU Health campus is going up and for a hub of health and wellness and well-being to be in a place where the people that live around there maybe like aren't

impacted. Yeah.

Yeah. like aren't having access to that or aren't healthy, I would guess I would say like. Yeah. So, how long has this been in the works to bring this to life and what can we expect from the district?

Absolutely. And shout out to IU Health because they are the kind of the incubators of it all, right? And I always say the new medical campus is the but for factor because the conversation we're having today, the but for factor but for the investment that IU Health is making in that new medical campus, we wouldn't see the amount of resource and energy behind the Indie Health District which allows it to do all the things that we're setting out to do. So, you know, um again, shout out to IU Health CEO Dennis Murphy who said, "Look, you know, we're going to build this new medical campus, but if I cut the ribbon on the hospital and all I have is a hospital, then I've failed. So, how do we think about investment outside of the walls in the hospital that positively impact the community?

And I think that's good for people to know is that these are two separate entities. You have IU Health as kind of that but for

I call it the but for factor, right? Like because the again the conversation we're having isn't new. There's been tons of reports that document the life expectancy that document um I mean there's a push for mental health if you you do a search tons of information to pop up the lack of housing not just in the health district but throughout the city that'll pop up. Um all these ills have been there and there's been tons of reports that talk about or make recommendations about how to address them but very little has been done over the decades. the investment in the Indie Health District, the but four factor by IU Health allows the Indie Health District to actually execute on some of those recommendations. So, you'll see some of it come to life.

You know, we are investing in and and installing trails in the district. One that's coming down from the creek down to 21st Street. Um we have and we can talk about this a little bit more, but the Mosaic Center, which is a work uh workforce uh training uh initiative where we are supporting the under and unemployed in the in the community. There's tons of stuff going on.

And what's interesting about this is uh sometimes local residents in these historic neighborhoods are against new development because you that comes in, it pushes them out. That's right. And and they end up, you know, displaced from homes that, you know, might have been or places that might have been in their family like it's a legacy there. So, and I know that there was like been some articles put out like Mirror Indie did a thing and like we we were looking through this. Um, how are you guys working to come alongside the residents of these historic neighborhoods to make this an awesome place for the tradition and the legacy as well as all the new cool innovative stuff that's coming?

Yeah, great question. So, the first thing I point out is that it come going back to a a piece of your original question. We started the work about five years five five years or so ago, right? And before we officially announced or created anything, we just sat down with the community and listening sessions and surveying and one-on-one meetings and neighborhood association meetings and we just wanted to hear what's going on. What do you see? What do you want? What don't you want, etc. And they began to fill out the game plan for the district. If you had to like describe, if you had to describe the current residents within the Indie Health District, what do they look like? What do they do for a like? What's that like?

So, so you can paint the picture for me.

You got some amazing folks, man. Um, all shapes, sizes, colors, ages, etc. Um, you've got teachers, you know, tradesmen, trades women, you've got um transportation workers, you've got the whole gambit, right? And then you have some folks who need support as well.

So you got the whole thing there. And right now I would describe them as excited, you know, but first they were skeptical as they should be,

right? And you know, here here's somebody else coming in with a bunch of promises and asking questions about, you know, what's going on.

Yeah. And then and like what comes with this is like

you're going to push me out. You're going to build something and and I'll be homeless. Yeah. And it's like and all of a sudden Yeah.

So and and there's a history of that. So, we have, you know, set out the spirit of and I I I fall short of calling it judgation. That's the word that everybody goes to, right?

Um but if you talk to folks in the community, they'll tell you, I want my neighborhoods invested in. I want my community to look better, be better, feel better. What they don't want is the historic displacement that happens by way of gentrification. So, our goal is to set out to avoid that as best as we can. Usually, you go to affordability, right? Because you can't help but the market is going to kind of dictate what it does. and affordability is important which why one of the reason we're investing in um you know small businesses incubating new businesses as well as affordable housing that's important but in addition to afford because I can say look

even if I could afford to live in my home but if every time I walked out of my house nothing around me spoke to me my family or my culture then in essence you've displaced me anyway

so we want to invest then you want to live there so we want to invest in all the things one of the requests is for a grocery store or coffee shop we want the coffee shop to be reflective of what the people want it may not be Starbucks it may be a local, you know, a local business who's got a coffee shop. You know, uh, we might need to move, you know, get in the podcast to the Indie Health District,

have you set up shop, have Nate right at the heart of it so you can keep telling the story of the people in the district. But that would be it'd be local. It'd be be hyper local. And that's what we want, man. We want people to to continue. We want to invite more people in,

but not at the expense of the folks who already live there.

That is hard. And I feel like it's it's great that you're talking about it because I feel like it gets hard as the you know districts get money poured in and invested into like you know updates or whatever it is then like real estate investors and outside like people from California start buying houses in these districts and like flipping them and making junk house. Not junk but they're not like the best stuff.

They're not what the people want.

Yeah. And then it's all of a sudden it's like, okay, well, I could just

I don't, you know, I walk out my door, I don't uh resonate with what's in my neighborhood today,

and by the way, I could just like sell the house and make a little money and then like move somewhere and like and the cycle repeats.

Yep.

You know, so this is very interesting. Um, as we think about the Indie Health District, what I want to go to before we talk more about all of the hows that's coming together is the why this, why for you, why are you like pouring into this and and how did you end up at the the helm of this whole thing?

God's will really I've been fortunate enough, I think, in my professional career to get paid, I know it's going to sound cliche, to make the world a better place, right? And I know I know that. But but in my career, everything that I've been afforded the opportunity to do has in some way, shape, form or fashion, I think contributed to positive impact.

Yeah.

Of the city I live in. Not only do I love what I do, I sleep well at night. You know, this is no different. It's just on a scale magnified like no other. Right now,

what was so appealing to you about this opportunity to come in and really take this big swing to make this historic district a better place?

I like complex things. It's a really big puzzle, right? This, in fact, most would say it's impossible.

Most would say this is you're you're look you're attempting to boil the ocean,

like community development, workforce development, real estate, like the whole nine yard.

Even like I said, trails, pocket parks,

food access, all of the things.

How big is your team?

We are mighty team of one right now, right? Like it's it's me, myself,

and I

and your Coleman camp stove with the entire Pacific Ocean on top of it just ripping that thing.

But no, in all seriousness, we have a a team of supporters, supporting anchors, make out my board, IU Health being one of them, IvyTech, Citizens Energy Group, uh IU School of Medicine, and our wonderful Indian Lapis Children's Museum. Um and so they lend their expertise, um you know, to help support and we've got some consultants and things, but yeah, right now and we're looking to grow. we're going to grow.

The kind of central piece would be the new IU Health complex like right in the center of the district like maybe like center south and then the top the northern border would be the children's museum kind of up. I know you said 46 that's like just a little or 36 is where Okay. So just a little bit north of the children's

Yep. But they but you're right that's their node. So going north you have the ivy then fades into uh the children's museum. Of course, Citizens as a utility is kind of

everywhere and they're a big supporter as well.

And then MLK brings it down that on the western side there. Yeah, this is super cool. Okay, so when did you get like when did this opportunity get presented to you and like when did you get pulled into this?

We were doing some work with the school districts through an organization we created called the lead change project at the time,

also big and complex. We were looking to I I believe in the power of sport and all the benefits that sport brings to to all people but in particular young people who are developing. Right.

Yeah.

Our theory at the time was that if all the data that says you know kids perform better academically um more likely to graduate, less likely to become teenage parents, less likely to uh experiment with drugs and alcohol, um better leadership skills, better time management, etc., etc., etc. If all those things are true, then the kids who need it the most are getting it the least. And so we partnered with uh IPS uh in an attempt to uh to improve the percentage of young people who were participating. In the midst of doing all of that, a few of my colleagues at IU Health were saying, "Hey, you know, we're going to build this hospital." And to the point I made earlier, um CEO is like, "Hey,

if all we end up in with is a hospital, then we failed."

So looking for some people to help us think through what uh investment in the community would look like, and there you have it.

That's cool. And one of the first like big projects that came about was like just recently like you guys opened the $8 million affordable housing.

So just recently. Yeah. So housing is a big one. There's a there's a housing shortage across the city actually across the country. I mean you know everywhere.

This is the number whether it's rural urban everywhere. They're just like housing.

Yeah. Housing is

like I'm like just like a wild thing to like continuously hear over and over again. I'll put a pin in the flag that the district is ideally a space where we can make investments really charge um into a lot of what the community has been investing and for the or or requesting and for the things that work we look to figure out how we and those things can be replicated in other parts of the city or in other parts of the state. So it becomes a testing ground if you will for the state of Indiana and a great one that I I I think can be modeled in in other spaces. Housing, to your point, really big issue. And so we're we're we're trying to take the lead on that. Um the one we uh did we broke ground on a couple weeks ago u was a series of town homes and duplexes. Um all affordable.

How does that work? Like I again I like Yeah.

So you say you get paid to uh like make the world a better place. I get paid to ask the silly questions that like every that everyone's kind of thinking but no one's ready to ask. It's like okay when you talk about affordable, what does that mean in practice? How does that go about? Uh, and what does that look like today in 2025 when you say an $8 million affordable housing? You guys just broke ground on it. What, like, take me through what that looks like.

Facts. And you know what? In in all fairness, we shouldn't just throw out the word affordable because what's affordable to you may not be affordable to me. Um, I will say the definition for or the algorithm, if you will, is kind of set up by HUD, housing and urban development, but HUD sets what is affordable, right? It's a it's a percentage of what is considered the area median income. In other words, the average or median of what folks make depending on your percentage of what that number is that dictates you know what you can afford. And so affordability is determined by HUD. Um so we follow that and then you know try to perform it as best we can. Affordable housing is difficult because typically the math doesn't math in essence right you're saying in a in the real world 2 plus 2 is four.

Yeah.

Right. With affordable housing, we're saying two. We're going to give you one, but it still needs to equal four.

Yeah.

So, someone has to subsidize.

We've had real estate developers on here. I would say, you know, Indiana, um, we have been blessed with what I believe some good community partners in Indiana that have done good. I know is Onyx and East a partner on that.

Yeah, they are the developers on it. Um, Near North is the is kind of the owner of it. Um, the city of Indianapolis was a partner obviously. Um, INHP, Indianapolis Neighborhood Housing Partnership is a partner. IHCDA at the state was a partner. So, we had a lot of acronyms.

Absolutely. In order to pull off something like affordable housing, it's going to take

Well, multitude of parts.

That's the piece where if you think about previous episodes where you talked real estate development, you come in, right, you the bank financing, all thing works. And then you look at like leases and you know you make enough money to service this debt and you know and create something that where the value of it is equitable to what your people are paying for. Something with affordable housing is actually based on you have to look at median income. Yep. And then you take a percentage of that I'm assuming based on the average person spends 30 40% whatever it is on rent or on you know housing. And then you have to make that math uh from the opposite not based on you know what the numbers of the actual property your deal is. That sounds very complex.

It is very complex. And you know I'll I'll say this too. The experts whomever they are say that you shouldn't spend more than 30% of your income on housing. So, if you're spending 30% or more, then you're considered housing cost burdened.

What's the median income in uh the Indie Health District?

Well, it's not just the Indie Health District. It's I mean they they set it. Yeah. HUD sets it for for the entire

for the area. Okay. You know that number and I don't put you on the spot if you don't know know

this is 50 to 80% affordable. In other words, 50 to 80% of the AMI, the area median income is what the target affordability is for that housing development. It's interesting. It'd be curious to see like cuz you know if you go to 96 in Meridian, the area median income is probably a little bit different. I wonder how they like Yeah. calculate all that to figure out how to bring a project like this to life.

Yeah. I don't know. A room full of nerds over at HUD trying to figure it out, right? And they and they kind of dispense it out to the rest of the country and then we follow it. But, you know, I'll say as a as a as a guy who grew up a kid in the inner city, watching mom work a couple jobs, you know, trying to make it work. Even what they announced is affordable today. I I think to myself, there's no way my mom could have even if I, you know, translated, you know, the mid80s to to now, it just feels extreme for her to have afforded that. So, I even though I'm saying affordable and and and the all the data says it's affordable, I I go, man, that feels feels heavy. It's a very very complex

now. And I'll say this too, the housing needs to be diverse. We don't want all affordable housing. We want the mix. We want some market rate housing. We want some affordable housing. We want kind of that middle ground, what they call workforce housing. And we don't want all multif family. We want some single family. We want some town homes and duplexes. So we are charging ahead trying to figure out how to deliver that diversity.

It'd be interesting too like even of like the luxury house like you know if you want to build a district where like everybody comes. Yeah. have like a spot where if like a young person like cuz I do think if uh like downtown if you work in the Salesforce tower like you're probably making some pretty good like decent money but like not everyone wants to live in the heart of downtown. So having like oh you know a place that you could come north post up there

we built some swanky stuff for some folks.

The interesting piece too about when you think of like the near north side of Indianapolis is

the the history of those neighborhoods.

Those houses are freaking beautiful.

Gorgeous. like, oh my, it's they're spectacular. The whole rent and like housing piece is just so hard because it's like, wow, am I gonna spend the same amount of money to live in this historic old home or like a brand new apartment? Like, what am I? I think it's like a it's interesting but like I if you can crack the code on how to bring

lots of different people together in the same space like that's where like vibrant beautiful n like Fountain Square like historically Broadripple you know like you can bring a lot of different people in together magic happens arts culture the whole nine yards industry it's I love it I'm here for I'm

you go I'm telling we're trying to recruit you there how do we how do we get you over to the district come

that's we'll we'll talk I mean I'm I'm there I'll pop in um but talk to me though about this first like domino that's that's falling is this project when I think about okay we're we're creating the Indie Health District.

Yep.

What is that like? What is that? Is it like a development progress that gets rolled out or is it

it's all those things?

How will we know when this is working? Well, one, we've got to continue to do a better job of talking about the district, explaining it, showing people, and we've got to do a good job, continue to do a good job of delivering on some of these commitments. So, the latest, you mentioned the housing piece, it's the latest, it's not the first. Um, we actually invested and partnered with Near North Development Corporation and the city of Indianapolis on a trail that comes down Capitol Street beginning at Fall Creek and comes down to 21st Street was the first phase. One of the goals for the district is to make it one of the most connected spaces in the city, right? So that trail will ultimately end up connecting to the canal, to the cultural trail, etc.

So that we increase that amount of connectivity. People can walk, bike, jog, etc. Um, so we executed on that. Um, we've made investments in child care, partner with early learning Indiana, um, looking to do more in that space. Some of the things that pop up in the district aren't necessarily investments by the district, but supported by the district. a local developer.

Um, one of the first housing developments went up at 18th in Illinois called Wesley Place. Um, Aerrol Street was a developer on that, a little over 200 units, uh, units of housing, uh, mixed and we didn't necessarily put any money into that, but we supported and invested, I'm sorry, and supported uh, the developers so that that investment could go in. So, you know, it's collaboration and partnership will be key. You know, one of the answers to how are you going to pull this off is being consistent and collaborative with a number of partners to pull it off. There's nothing that we're doing in the district that doesn't require a number of partnerships.

It's challenging, too. Like I always respect people that sit in in the shoes because I'm like a I if I have a problem, I want to go out and fix it today

and it's like you have a lot of partners, a lot of different opinions, voices, people in the kitchen. A lot of cooks in the kitchen. But you just have to keep going and you got to start getting those wins under your belt, right? Okay. Wait. I feel like uh is part of the district or this piece. I feel like I've driven down Capitol before and out of sometime in the past couple years like a big speed bump was put in like this neighborhood and and like the first time I drove through there it kind of caught me off guard and I'm like

oh and it's like wait this is

it like just that little thing like gets me to like look around and like like look at the neighborhood and like just

I don't know be a little more present I suppose.

Yeah. community. Uh they requested that so

cuz people were going

That's right.

Exhibit A right here.

Yeah. So, one of the things we we continue to to tap into the community and their list is fairly consistent. Um food access has been the number one requested item, specifically a grocery store because in that large footprint, there is no grocery store.

There's no grocery store there.

No, that's what everybody says. I go, "Nope, go drive." is the closest one that like is it a Kroger down on

there's a Kroger on like Washington or Michigan and then there's another Kroger east of the district on college that no one likes to go to unfortunately

we've been there

but in that 1500 acres there's there's no there's no food no there's not a a big enough food footprint no grocery store and that's the number one thing that requests two has been housing in terms of request or or conversation from the community three has been safety and security and when you think about safety and security. You might think that people are asking for like gun safety or like violent crime issues. No, most of them are saying, "Hey, I live on capital." To your point, it's a drag strip. People drive too fast. I don't feel safe crossing the street. Or, you know, the lights in the back of my home in the alley have been out forever. I don't feel safe coming home at night. Or the park, the one park that we have is torn up and I don't feel safe

um letting my kids go play in the park. So investments like the speed bump and the trail have been a part of that safety and concern request that the community's been making.

I love that that is an intentional speed bump because it's like made me think and stop and take take in and sometimes I don't know you're like commuting. You're going wherever you're going. You're like not thinking about the world and and you don't like take time to like I don't know breathe in a little bit about what's going on in these neighborhoods

uh throughout our community.

Funny. I'll say things like there's no grocery store. I'm like really? I drive through there every day. And I'll go, "Yeah, to your point, you you know, you're just kind of drifting through on your way home to wherever you capital, right?

And you're not paying attention to the fact that these things either don't exist or in need of repair."

Yeah. And like Yeah. You talk about food, whether grocery store, and even just like restaurants in general, like not a ton in that area.

And all those are on the docket to, you know, bring to the district at some point.

Yeah. Wow.

You talk about deliverables, right? So, um, like again, the number one request is a grocery store. I've learned way more about grocery than I think I'd ever want to know. It's a fairly complex.

Of course it is, cuz why would you be involved in anything that's not complex?

Absolutely. Right. Yeah. Why do I get up in the morning? And we're we're working on it. I feel like we are really really close to cracking that that code. In the meantime, we had to go back to the community.

Take us through what that process looks like. How do you convince Kroger, Aldi, Whole Foods, whoever to like, hey, there's a spot like you should be an anchor tenant somewhere in here.

Yeah. Well, so interestingly enough, we started having so when the request came, it was flooded in by the community. We want a grocery store.

Yeah.

We started having conversation and I remember sitting down with a group of consultants um who have grocery store chains as clients.

Yeah.

And one guy, he was a bit of a jerk. At least I thought he was. But he would his his his comment was honest. He goes, "Look, there's a reason why there's no grocery store in this space." So, you freeze, right? He goes, "Our clients are in the business of making money." And most of them are they, you know, margins might be small, but they're doing

they're pretty good at it.

They're they're pretty good at it. So, if there was money to be made,

that's

we would be here. And I sat and froze. I wanted to like punch him in his face a little bit, but you thought he's got a point. So, our goal and our strategy is to change that narrative. We need to increase the density in the district. Like I said, help support those who live in the district first, but create a space where others can come in so that we create, you know, we increase the population and the density.

Um, incubate business in the district, so more people are coming in on a daily basis. So, we're investing in um current business. We're incubating new business. That brings more um population into the space as well. And then that changes the narrative or the desire for a grosser, for example, to come in. There also need to be some subsidy in the space, maybe land, some monies, etc.

And then we'll need a partner, whoever the grosser is, who agrees with the mission, right? Who agrees in the in in supporting the overall goals of the Indie Health District.

Yeah, I know this has been a huge like a long time talking about on the um the norththeast side of downtown too, like there's a food desert on that and they've been like just talking about how to and it's not Yeah, you're right. Like and I mean again the comment is like pretty it can definitely hit you abruptly where it's like jerk

I mean but they are they're like like capital like capitalism in general like they're in the business of making money and like yeah you know it's like there's a reason they they probably have maps of where they they know major metros where they know

that's interesting.

I picture like Pinky in the Brain. They're in the back room with this map and all these machines, right? And they're like, "Uh, this is where we're going."

The protractors like drawing circles out there. And it's like, it is interesting to think where like that. Like there's a strip like I live up here in Broadripple and it's like along Keystone there. You can hit like

Aldi, Meyer, you can hit Walmart a little further up, Kroger. Like it's like

that's a choice,

you know? Yeah. And it's like sometimes I'm like, dang, I don't know which. I go to Kroger because it's the closest, but it's like we kind of take that for granted. And there's other neighborhoods where I mean and think about even Broadripple five

five five years ago, four years ago like there was another Kroger in downtown Broadripple by the Fresh Market

or Fresh Time and then there was Fresh like again like you think like uh they're in the business of making money like they must have found that there was a way to make money here and so yeah it'll be interesting to see how that process goes and how you can attract a ger to come in there and

are there like other like are you guys looking at what other cities have done?

Oh, absolutely. like what are like

not just for grocery store but for the whole thing

like are there other like yeah who are some inspirations

probably the closest align has been the University circle in Cleveland um one in size they're smaller than us but they're bigger than the average right they're about a thousand acres the Indie Health District is 1500 acres yeah

but they have embodied the urban development the art the culture etc into the space and we asked them bl you know bluntly kind of what were some of your mistakes you because they've been at it for a few decades right um one of things. And one of the reasons we got so large is we listened to what they said. They said when we first did it, we created kind of this railroad track, this line in the sand, if you will, that created this have and have nots.

Oh.

And once we did that, the have knots started to infiltrate the spaces of the halves almost as to say, how dare you, right? How dare you draw that line in my face and tell me I can't access those things. And so they had to rethink that and and kind of you know begin to invest out further.

You want like soft like soft edges.

You want soft edges but you also want to be conscious about not creating boundaries or or cut offs if you will, right? Like

we want to create an inclusive place where everyone feels welcome and wants to come support, spend money, live well, be healthy, all those things. a difficult thing to do and expensive and complex. And so we want to make sure that collaboration, partnerships are all in the right place.

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org/getinbiz. Elements Financial, like a bank, only better. Federally insured by NCUA, an equal housing lender. Now, let's get back into the episode. And so when we think of a health district,

like what is a health district? I don't know where does that come from and what does that mean to be a part of a health district?

Absolutely. So again going back to that north star which is life expectancy, right? We we thought about all the things that were impacting you know the reasons why people were dying in their mid60s and and again all social, economic and environmental factors. And so the district is a space and a place where the development in it creates an opportunity for folks to be as healthy as possible, right? They have healthy food options. They have healthy physical activity options.

Their jobs create opportunities for them um to earn a livable wage and they can therefore be healthy. they can afford the the the things that they need to exist in life like child care and their education is good which sets them on a a trajectory to have things like health insurance like so everything in the district is thought of in terms of how it impacts that life expectancy. How do we make your life uh and your ability to live and and uh you know a space and place for well-being if you will

is the north star and again it's not all about metrics some of it you feel you see but is the northstar metric let's say 50 years from now

if that average life expectancy in this community

increases

10 20 years would you say that this has been a success?

Absolutely. Absolutely. and and there's so and that's a big needle. So that life expectancy as you pointed out it's not going to change next year not if we're not if we're sincere about it right um so even if it's 10 20 years down the line um but there are some other impacts and some other metrics that feed into that so housing is an example some of them are easier to measure easy easy to measure um we look at the amount of need for housing the amount of affordable housing

how do you measure that like do like how do you measure the need of housing in a community

yeah absolutely so right now we're working on that housing assessment and and it starts with what the city has has shown us what the need is and then you know you can extrapolate that out based off of the 1500 acres that makes up the Indie Health District and say you know we're responsible for X percentage of that total number. Um and so how do we bring more housing units online and then we track that progress.

Yeah.

So if we are you know if that means we are responsible for 1500 housing units we start tracking against that piece.

Yeah. And you start not start one foot in front of the other baby. Amen. How does it work with all of these different public partners, private partners, a healthc care system, a board, and then private real estate developer like it just feels like a lot to bring to make work and like people that have like like again if you're a real estate developer at the end of the day like you pay your employees by making a profit. So, like I don't know. It's like are there specific developers that have to go out and like I I I was just in thinking it's like well if I could build an affordable housing project or if I could build a

market rate,

you know, like whoever is developing Midtown Carmel, it straight up like you're probably going to get a lot more like profit at the bottom line there. So, how does that balance and how do that does do all these partners work together?

In everything, we're seeking partners, not just transactional um members of the district. So, we want people who support the mission.

Yeah.

And who are willing to put some skin in the game to achieve it. I I do think two things can be true at the same time. I think we can do good and people can actually make money. And our goal is to position the district in that space that allows folks, companies, businesses, uh, institutions to, um, have a really good balance sheet, but also a healthy community that surrounds the space. And I think that's crucial too to build a long-term like self- sustaining neighborhood. It has to work like that.

Like you know again like you talk about um a grocerers looking at that it's like we're in the business of making money like and and if you can build that up and you know incubate some small businesses and help do all these different pieces and come together and then in 10 years you look back and it's like oh it's it's working. It's running itself. Absolutely. That's one of the reasons I go back to the but for factor like

you know it it is difficult just thinking about it but IU Health's investment I think the last reported number is what 4 and a.5 billion dollars in that in that space just think about the amount of energy that resonates from that investment that energy is what is is allowing it's that c it's that current like the pebble that dropped in the ocean

and that current is carrying through the district and allowing us to do some of the things that we're doing now. Well, we saw some research that said by 2030, Indianapolis is projected to be one of the fastest growing metro areas in the Midwest. How does the Indie Health District pair into this to prepare Indianapolis for what seems to be uh expansive growth coming, you know, over the next 5 10 years?

The district is we we are positioning the district to be the desired place for folks to come and and reside, right? and knowing that when you do so, everything around you is going to promote health and well-being.

Never been cooler than I think it is now. Like you talk about

and fun, right? You can two things can be true. We can be healthy and you can have fun. Yeah. I mean, we want to think about the pro the programming things. We we we focus a lot on the development, but we want to make sure it's fun. I can see us having like I don't know 5K that we run in the district all in the spirit of health and wellness and events and programs for for kids. Um, art like butter is an event that's going on this weekend. It's in the district.

We just had Allan on the podcast yesterday.

There you go. So, Allan and Molly, uh, big supporters of the district. Uh, we want them to be headquartered in the district. Butter is in the district. Things like that make it

the STS would technically This is parts is in the district as well.

See, this is good to know. So, development because I feel like people I feel like they are starting to get a little bit of notorient chunk of notoriety at the studs. I mean MGK just like pops up and does it.

He did. He did a road show. I was there. Yeah, absolutely.

Jamal, you were there. You didn't think to call your buddy Nate.

I know, Nate. I know. I'm I'm You holding it over my head?

Okay. So, in the future,

that's true. My my brother-in-law works with MGK actually. And that's how So, he calls me up say, "Hey, we're doing a pop-up show." I said, "Really? Where at?" He goes, "Some some spot in downtown."

And how did it happen?

Well, I was calling to check on my sister.

No. Well, I mean, how did No. How did MGK decide? Well, he's got a new album he's dropping. So, they're doing these intimate. Yeah. That they're doing across the country small bars where he just pops up.

So, Indie Health District, you never know who might be doing.

You never know who's popping up in the district.

Let's just say

we're going to do big concerts. I can see that happening.

Can you put me on the short list for any sort of other cool thing like that?

Absolutely. Cuz you're going to cut a ribbon on the new podcast opening up in the health district. We're going to get you over there.

We're talking uh that's amazing. It's cool. Uh you talk about health, wellness is has never been cooler, right? Like young kids are their habits are a little bit different. I won't say young but like college grads young generation like the college kids today uh their habits are a little bit different than what we were I mean even I graduated in 2019 even however long ago that was 5 10 however long uh the habits are changing and different and living in a healthy

a place that has health in mind I don't know seems seems pretty cool to me. Yeah. And health, not just physical health, just the mental health, like your just state of being, you know, because the more mentally, you know, stable you are, more, you know, more more the happier you are. My guess is there's a correlation between that and how long you live, too, right?

Yeah. So, I mean, there's a lot of things that have to come together over the next few years. You know, all these different partners and pieces and moving like there's a lot going on. If you could just snap your fingers and bring any project to life in the Indie Health District tomorrow,

what what would it look like? Paint us a picture of what that would look like. It'd be a grocery store and it'd be a major development at the heart of the district where a grocery store is connected to multiple retail anchors like a bank and then you know a space where you know nonprofits who are doing good work like uh like Molly and Allen with Gang Gang uh and others are headquartered in that space as well. Some small businesses are all there and it's vibrant. We throw little popup concerts outdoors indoors. We do an outdoor rally for Nate where you do the podcast outside with like

dude he's hyping me up

10,000 people surrounding concerts in between the takes

you know everybody just wants to be there and the anchor they've got the hospital there the children's museum it's a vibrant space and place man with tons of activity

where you've got a mix of affordability you've got good bars and restaurants you've got great education so people and their kids can get well educated it.

Yeah.

And people were just living a healthy life, man. Living a healthy life.

Wow. I mean, think about

You did second stamp my fingers and do whatever. So,

well, good.

Why not dream big, right,

Mr. and Mrs. Kroger? You longtime listeners of the podcast, let's bring this thing to life. Come on. Absolutely. No. And I think that it's it's but I don't know if if you put this out into the world and you say these things and you speak in the and people can see the vision they come together and they know what like it's one thing to have some renderings and you know you know the cool part is makes

there's not a conversation I've had where somebody goes that's a horrible idea right like everybody gets it.

Yeah. My job is to make sure that I provide the game plan for it to happen. And some of that is compartmentalizing it so that you know what your piece of the game plan is. So that you don't have to eat the whole elephant at one time. Now that's a difficult job for me. But if I can make your piece of it simple, then you can help me

deliver the big picture, right?

And know how your piece is just a a small building block of this bigger picture where it's like, okay, it's not just a grocery store. It's not just a bank. It's not just a trail. It's not just a speed bump. It's not just a speed bump.

All right. Like,

let's think about what it does. That ripple effect.

And when you think of that, like again, I live this like I this happened to me. This speed bump comes out of nowhere. I like look around and I'm like, "Oh,

what was that?

Wait, there's something going on here."

And like then you start to just like stack. And then, you know, fast forward however long later and we're talking about it here.

Absolutely.

And and I think that that is the art of a true leader. like the sign of a true if you can get the grocery store developer and the bank and the this and the that and all and the popup concert and our friends at the Vogue and 45 to be like I want to go

That's right.

bring I made rock and roll festival down there.

That's right.

Then it's like and they see how they're each little

pull up this weekend in the district. You're going to see that, right?

Yeah. For butter.

That's right.

Yeah.

It's happening.

I love it.

It's happening. And I always say, "Wait, do you see what we do next?"

Amen. Man, this has been awesome. It's been so fun. Uh we're gonna we're going to shift gears a little bit as we wrap up the podcast. That was we talked Indie Health District. Now we're just going to talk Indiana for a little bit, right? As we wrap up. Funny that we talked about real estate development and all. So this next question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They are a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at home isjart.com. My question for you Jamal,

why do you call Indiana home? You know, I was born and raised in Dayton, Ohio, but I've grown up in Indiana. And the interesting part is like I came It's beautiful how Indie it's like this amateur sports capital of the world, right? I was fortunate enough to play a little ball. Um suffered an Achilles tear.

Where'd you play at?

Um a little bit everywhere. I started out in Oklahoma, then University of Colorado in the Springs for a couple of years. Played a little semi-pro ball in Chicago, but I was going to Purdue while while doing that. And uh that's where I, you know, tore my Achilles, you know, had some time to reflect. So, I'm here, took an internship with the NCAA, uh Sports Corp with the Black Coaches Association. In that journey of kind of self-discovery, right, you're kind of learning what's important to you.

And I think everybody goes to that at some point. For me, um my, you know, my personal pillars, one of them is family. And, and I'll say I've been able to build my family here, and I can't imagine a better place to have done so. So, uh, that's a long- winded way of getting to the answer of your question, which is why I call Indiana home. It's where my it's it's been a great place for me to have my family.

It's not that impactful when the guy who's always lived in Indiana raves about how great Indiana is. But when you've gone out and you've been different places and seen different things and then it I I almost love the Hoosiers by choice like more than I love like the light like we're lifelong like you know that's that's a piece of it. But if you've been out and seen different things and still elected to make this place home, I think that's pretty special.

What was the first neighborhood that you walked when the Indie Health District launched? Like where did you go to just like visualize, feel this, and like

that really got you to like be excited about

the job?

I did the entire district. I did all five neighborhoods and I took that month and I spent some time and then we walked what I call walk, you know, walk the beat. There were a few nodes. 22nd in Illinois is a node. If you stand at that corner, you'll see what I mean. 29th in MLK is another node. If you stand in that corner, you'll see what I mean. 34th in Illinois is another node. If you stand in that corner, you'll know what I mean. And I did that. And you just I just sat, man. And I spoke to a lot of the folks kind of hovering around, walking around the space, some of the business owners there. Um, and talked to them about what's been happening, what hasn't been happening. and you just kind of digest that all.

What's the history of that segment of town?

I will say so, you know, one of the cool things that I've learned those five neighborhoods are very unique.

Like each one of them is

each one of them are very unique. In fact, as we think about what development looks like, we've got to be respectful to each of their respective cultures and histories

and they have these pillars within them. Christmas Addicts is in the district. Christmas Addicts as a high school might be one of the most historical high schools, not just in the indie, but in the country. There's a PBS special if you watch. I mean, it is amazing the amount of

why why is it so historic?

It's a historically black high school, first of all.

Yeah.

It's kind of sickening how it became the high school it became. But how it just kind of flew out of the ashes, I think is amazing. I mean, there's stories about how

I mean, candidly, white folks at that time didn't want their kids going to school with black people. Sucks. They create Christmas atticss in a space called the Bottoms, which is that was the nickname, right? The Bottoms. Think about it, right? So, it birthed out of this thing. And

the Bottoms meaning because it's down by the the river there, right? And it's like that little area and it's like

it was like the bottoms. It was a heap, trash heap. It was a whole bunch of things. It was like it won't

like largely overlooked.

It won't just throwing you away. Now keep in mind at the same time if you were a PhD do you know doc doctoral candidate or PhD coming out then it was tough for you to get become a professor at a historically white institution. So you either got an a job at an H. B. CU or you taught at a high school. So Christmas Addicts story legend has it at that time they had college professors teaching their high school courses.

So you have this amazing like breath of just education coming out. So out of that school you have you know four and five star generals that are out. Oscar Robinson is out of Christmas Addicts. Yeah. You've got renowned musicians and jazz artists. You've got artists in general.

You've got congresswoman and and and senators. You've got like all these folks that have came out of the ashes. You think about it, right? I mean, that school is amazing. It is also and we've made some investments. Indie Health District is in partnership with IPS and and Christmas addicts as well.

um wanting to invest. We we uh one of our one of our first investments was actually a fellowship we created for the students there. Um to create a pipeline for you know more folks to get into the healthcare industry, partner with IU Health. Um we tweaked the the fellow the curriculum a little bit so the the fellowship has paid internships and externships. Um and any kid who comes into it in their freshman year uh and finishes uh through their senior year is guaranteed a a job offer with IU Health. That's incredible.

Now that's there the Herald which is in the Oh gohead.

I do I have I so I put together some stuff on Christmas Addicts just because to reiterate how impactful this high school is. So one Christmas addicts was the first only all black high school in Indianapolis when it opened in 1927. I believe it was also the first all black team to win a state title in basketball.

Like that's pretty cooling. Especially when you think about uh Indiana sport, right? Where you're like, "Oh, we're based on basketball." What's also interesting is do you know who Chris Addicts was?

Yep.

If you think about the Tea Party, right?

Yeah.

Was an African-American native sailor like became the first person killed in the Boston Mass.

Boston Massacre. Yeah.

It It's almost like they they had some tieins when they were putting this whole thing. Like that's impactful, you know, and I think that that's a piece of Indiana basketball that um

I don't know. That's like a That was enlightening. I I did not know that, you know, and that's pretty that's really really

you've got if you think about the Crown Hill, so that's in the southern part of southwestern part of the district in that Ransom Place historic Planner House Homes neighborhood is where kind of Christmas addicts are situated. If you head north in the district, think about Crown Hill Cemetery and the history do some of the people who are buried.

Oh my gosh.

In Crown Hill, oh dude, it's like a who's who.

Yeah.

Of the afterlife, right? people to go like you've got Dillinger, you've got like

we want to make sure that the get in podcast like I need to get a get a reservation in Crown Hill for one day, right?

Seriously, I mean the history of and it's a beautiful I mean it is beautiful if you go in. I mean take

like a bike trail too that goes through there and you can just uh like it's just a very reflective beautiful experience to go through there. you were talking about Heron or what what was the neighborhood you

uh so that's in Crown Hill in the Meridian Highland

neighborhood. I think that's where the Herald is.

Herald,

which is one of the first black newspapers that were published.

No way.

Check that for me. It's right on It's right on Illinois. The building is still there.

I've seen this building.

The building is still there. It's It's not I mean obviously it's not operating anymore, but

that building represents a bit of history that should be noted. So that's in the district.

Then you think about the things that people know about. The Indianapolis Children's Museum is one of the large, if not the largest in the country. It's the best children's museum in the country. IvyTech, I think, is the largest junior uh, you know, two-year college.

Yeah.

In the country. Just think about all of those assets in this historic 1500 acre footprint that we call the Indie Health District.

Samson, do you know Samson Levenson?

Does tours. Yeah,

he does walk. Great tour. I wish that I could just like clone him a thousand times to like do every neighborhood. Yeah.

You know, like he's just one guy like making that. But like I just love learning about the history of our city and of our state.

I think it's so fascinating. So basketball sport has been a huge part of your life.

Yeah. You you sent me down that history lane, too.

Uh basketball sports have been a huge part of your life. Who is uh one who's your athlete that's made a huge impact in your life?

No, that's an easy one, actually. So when I was at Purdue, man, really chasing my little hoop dream.

Yeah.

I give a speech called the power of expectation.

And in it, I just talk about setting those expectations are critically important and self-reflection within that is the most critical step. And I was in that space and in time trying to figure some things out. Playing ball, my game was coming around pretty good, but always not just not quite good enough, right? Which is a tough thing for an athlete to to to struggle with. And one of the folks that approached me, I was working out in the gym, older guy I learned later was Leroy Keys. I don't know if you know who Leroy Keys is.

You should you should look that up. Leroy Keys is a Purdue legend. Um, football great, uh, who went on to play for the Philadelphia Eagles. And he became a mentor of mine, not about sports, but just about life. and he never himself told me anything about his athletic history. He introduced me to his wife Monica.

Shout out to Monica who's uh now Coach Keys has since passed away. But he was a great influence on on me and my life at the time. I was really beginning to appreciate just how important family was and what that meant to me. Um, and for him to kind of take me and introduce me to his family and, you know, his boys without asking for anything in return, man. And just being in he was a great example, dude. And then I started asking around

and in Purdue Lore like he was

he was a first round pick for the NFL draft.

They said he did everything. They said he he kicked field goals. He

ran the ball. They said he did everything. He started out at running back, rushed for 637 yards, had three touchdowns as a rookie, and then he ends up switching over to safety in 1971, and made six interceptions and recovered three fumbles. Like

Leroy Keys, Purdue Legends. It was at the gym.

I was in there working out. I would work out kind of twi not kind. I worked out twice a day, six days a week. And there was a a guy who cleaned up like the janitor, his name was Mr. Ben. he would let me in the back of the uh of the wreck. Um, and I set my cones and stuff up. Apparently, Mr. Ben knew Coach Keys really well and they were in there talking and Coach Keys just came over to me and he challenged me to he, you know, he was annoying me really in the beginning cuz I was like trying to work out and uh he came over and was just like, "Bitch, you can't make that shot kind of thing, right?" And I'm like, "Look, old guy, like get away from me." You know what I mean?

Yeah.

A testament to how good of an athlete he was. He just picks up the ball and you're like, "Shoot." And I don't think he ever played basketball. He just shoots the ball. He had an ugly jump shot, but it went in. And so he and I get into this little shooting contest and he asked me where I was from and what I was doing and and and honestly when I asked him what he did, he said, "I played golf."

He didn't he never mentioned football. He never did. He's I play golf and you should come out and play with me sometimes. So I would see him around. I would speak. And then I ran into him at uh uh Mackie one day and uh that's when I met his wife Monica and uh she he introduced me to her and they were just nice people.

You know, one thing led to another, man. And then I started picking his brain just about everything. And then someone saw me talking to him and they said, "Do you know who that is?" And I go, "Yeah, that's that's Coach Coach Leroy." And they like, "Dude, that's Leroy Keys." And I'm like, "Yeah, Leroy."

And they said, "No, dude. He's like Mr. Purdue." Everything, right? And then like you start looking it up and you just see like, "Oh crap." And when I would bring it up, he would like he would sidestep it.

He would never talk about that. Yeah. Two-time all-American at Purdue, first round draft pick. played for the Eagles if I'm not mistaken. Right.

Yeah. And then played for Kansas City and then he uh is just like, "Yeah, I play golf." Like

Yeah. He was like He was a hell of a golfer, too. His son Corland is a hell of a golfer, too. He has a has a crazy swing. But yeah, he was a hell of a golfer. He could hit the ball a mile.

I love it. That's like such a I feel like an Indiana thing, too, where it's like people are humble and they want to learn more about you and what you have to uh what your story is versus just bragging about their own the whole time. Uh Jamal, this has been an incredible episode. We end every episode with the same three questions that we ask every guest who comes on. First one,

you've been a few different places. You've seen some different things. You lived in some new areas. We won't bring it up that he was from Ohio, but it's okay. But what's something the world needs to know about Indiana?

Indiana has an amazing culture of collaboration and partnership. And here's what I mean by that. This is why one of the reasons I think the Indie Health District is so doable. I get folks all the time who are in awe of how our philanthropic world and our institutions are in support of initiatives. And I know that sounds like for the lay person, oh, what does that mean? Like there's a reason why things get incubated in this in this city. And there's some really innovative folks. Um I'm partial to the sports industry. So, if you love sports, this is not necessarily uncommon and the world should know that indie is the space to come for sports. And I think we're at the cusp of an amazing breakthrough in that area.

I couldn't agree more. I feel like uh racing and indie cars getting hotter by the minute, right? You have talk about women's basketball, you talk about men's basketball.

Y we're gonna figure it out this season. We're gonna we're gonna get right. We'll be good. And then we find

I'm we're betting that Daniel Jones is going to be the guy. So like

things are but you think about Yeah. You got Colts, you got the professional volleyball team, the Ignite up in Fisers, you have the freight, you have like there's a lot of cool stuff when it comes to sport happening.

Watch out for things like

flag football for young ladies.

Dude, it's growing. So I'm a This is going to be funny. So you're a basketball guy. I'm a wrestling guy. I'm the head wrestling coach at Bishop Chitard. That's like our my passion project. I love it, dude. And women's wrestling last season, the girls wrestling was the fastest growing sport in America

because like they turned it on like all these girls just wanted to like go beat each other up. Like it was uh it was it's really cool to see like all these these new opportunities and sports that are open to, you know, all genders and everything.

You're going to see that pop up. I can see gymnastics taking a new birth in Indie. Like there's just a lot of that for those of us who love sports just crazy breeding ground.

Talk talk about flag football. I cannot wait for flag football to be in the Olympics.

Like imagine just like like you got you got Patrick Mahomes out there against like a part-time plumber from Italy just like right like you're out there and it's like I don't know whoever it is like uh oh my uh Travis Kelce lines up against a guy who like roofs homes and it's like sorry I have to do this to you dude. Uh it's great. Final two questions. What is a hidden gem in Indiana?

Go find you a home and pop-up shop and stay.

Yeah, I think that that's a good spot. Like if you think of getting people exposed to this new district,

like swing by the studs.

Swing by the studs.

Final question for you. This is where you get to share the love

and uh it helps us find new guests or people that we need to know about. Who is a Hoosier that we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things.

Uh Kevin Peropes. Dr. Kevin Peropes. Former professor. In fact, I don't know if I've ever called him doctor. He's tackling the space of education, which if there was ever an industry that needs to, you know, some shakeup, it's that piece.

I met him when I was running the lead change project where we were trying to engage more kids in sport and we were trying to support those kids through their academic space and we were looking to get some tutors, pay for some tutors. He had this method where he says, "I tell you what, he had this peer-to-peer." He says, "Doing it differently." He says, "I want to take the nerd in your school who's probably unpopular and nobody ever talks to, but he's getting straight A's, and I'm going to pair him with that kid on your team that you're trying to get." And he says, "That's going to be his tutor, and he'll get more out of that than if I brought that teacher in." And I go, "Nah, get out of here."

He was spot on.

Really?

Spot on.

This is Math Track, right?

Well, he that that evolved into Math Track. Wow.

By the time I forget what his tutoring program was called, but it was his peer-to-peer piece. And so we did. We started pairing up nerds with athletes. And it was crazy. So

we say that with love, love and endearment.

Oh, dude. I man, mad respect for all the nerds because you know what happened, right? The athletes got smarter, the nerds got more popular, and all of a sudden we had this whole culture, and then they became supporters of the team. The athletes were so the nerds were no longer getting bullied because they were cool with the athlete. It was it was a great thing that happened. So

I love that you speak like in normal person talk. Like that's so great to hear. Okay. I actually This is crazy that you just said that. This weekend I was down in Duboce County around Jasper.

Jasper. I talked to one of the a parent there and they talked about how they're getting a lot of different because there's a lot of manufacturing and those kind of jobs and they're getting a lot of different a lot of diversity in their community and um there's a large prevalence of uh English second language students y

and they

I don't know how many years ago but they started a program where they took six high-erforming English speakers and six high performing Spanish speakers and team them up in like this peer-to-peer learning where you know and they their teachers spoke to them one day in all English and one day in all Spanish. And I'm butchering exactly how it worked, but those became like the top students at the school because they were teaching each other. So like you're learning Spanish from a native Spanish speaker and you're learning English from a native English speaker.

It's the same generation. It might be a different language but speaks kind of the same vibe, right? So that's the same thing that happened to us. His I thought his Anyway, he's doing some new stuff with Mad Track. I think it's amazing. The other person I would bring up is uh Emil Ecu.

I don't know if you've met Emil,

man. Emil is dope, bro. He's doing a lot in that business incubation space. Um, if you haven't, it sounds like you've already met him. But for those all of your guests who haven't met him,

I'd say tap in with Emil as well.

Good, dude. Jamal, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you sharing one the progress you guys have already made, as well as painting this vision for what the Indie Health District is going to look like going forward. especially, you know, we're on this track to Indie being one of the fastest grow is one of the fastest growing, but one of the largest uh metropolitan areas in the Midwest by 2030 and the way that the Indie Health District is going to play into that and help us, you know, continue to grow and bring more people into the Hoosier State. We love it.

Keep up the good work. If people want to connect with you, they want to learn more about the Indie Health District, how where can they do that? How can they do that?

Absolutely. So, a website uh www.indyalthdist.org. same on all of our social handles as well if I'm not mistaken. And I'll say pull up. One of the things you can pull up to, we have a floating farmers market, right? Farmers markets are big. We just uh invested in one of the local um vendors in the district and and she runs the floating far we call it floating farmers markets because it rotates throughout the district to each of the five neighborhoods.

So every Friday in the district um there's a farmers market. Tell all your guests to pull up, man, and support those local vendors.

Yeah.

And uh go go get some fresh some fresh produce.

I love And that's like you're being innovative on the way to bring grocery to uh to the neighborhood.

And we decided, ironic you said that cuz we decided to do that while we're working on the grocery store.

I love it, man. Hey, keep up all the great work and uh and we'll check in.

Appreciate you, man. All right, that's a wrap on today's nonprofit spotlight, and I hope you're as fired up as I am about the work being done by amazing leaders right here in Indiana. Big thanks again to Elements Financial for sponsoring the series as a credit union. They're not for-p profofit and built on the idea of empowering individuals to achieve financial success. That's why they've been empowering Hoosiers and folks around the globe for 95 years. They're based in India, but they serve members in all 50 states and more than 50 countries.

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