IU Indy Men’s Basketball on Recruiting, NIL, and a Culture of Winning

Every transfer player says they're playing hard, but they're not. We're trying to play a 40 minute game, like we're down eight with two minutes left. Two very challenging positions. You talk about getting brainwashed. We're 51 minutes in. I'm brainwashed. I'm all in. Getting everybody to buy into that, that mindset, you know, in the classroom, in the community, on the court, and then getting wins, it's a tough thing. How do you get coaches. Players, how do you get them all to feel the same way and have this same, I mean, obsession with winning from South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between. This is Get IN the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. This episode is brought to you by ClusterTruck, the pickup and delivery kitchen born right here in Indianapolis. 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Gosh, uh, I don't know A lot now. A lot of years. I feel like I'm getting older, so I don't wanna say how much it, yeah. There we go. For a lot of years. Come on. He's killing it. He brought with him head coach of IU Indy Men's basketball, Ben Howlett. He took over the program in May of 2025 after compiling a record of 217 and 37 over eight seasons as the head coach at West Liberty University out in West Virginia. We're gonna be talking about what's going on with Jag basketball today, how getting used to the city of Indianapolis and the state of Indiana, you get to be a Hoosier by choice coach. We're excited to have you guys here. Welcome to the show. Let's get in. Right? Let's get in. Absolutely. So, interesting fact about both of you. I wanna start this off with, uh, coach. You became the head coach of West Liberty when you were 30, 30 years old. And how old were you, Luke, when you became the athletic director at IU Indianapolis? Um, 37. 37. But that's, both of those are young for their perspective field, right? Like one of the youngest coaches in Division II, one of the youngest athletic directors. Yes. Yeah. Um, there's, there's only 365 Division I athletic directors. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, it's relatively young. And even if it wasn't just in that field, Nate, 37 would be young, just to clarify. Yeah. 70 young. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Uh, I love it. I think that, uh, that it's, it's gonna be fun to dive into the responsibility that both of you get to carry, as, you know, getting these positions of influence over these young minds and getting to mold the next generation of leaders across Indiana and beyond. And, uh, and a little bit of the responsibility that goes in there. So I'm really excited to dive into this, uh, for those listening. Just to like lay it out up front. IU Indianapolis is the name. It was once a while ago called I-U-P-U-I since, I don't know, two or three years there, the split has happened. There's a Purdue University of Indianapolis, and there's an Indiana University Indianapolis, and we're talking about the Jags at Indiana University. Indianapolis IU Indy i's like, we could go for short. All right. IU Indy, Luke, we're gonna start here. 2023. You get the job as the athletic director at IU Indy. Take me through the thought process that got you excited to go and, and take on this challenge. Yeah. You know, Nate, I, I tell people a lot this, this really wasn't even on my radar. I, I was involved with the Horizon League. I was the chair of the men's women's basketball tournament that they, they have every year at the, at the Coliseum. Um, and I, I got a LinkedIn message, um, and it was from a search firm that said, Hey, you've been recommended to, um, uh, to apply for the IU Indy, uh, athletic director job. Would you be interested? And at first I thought of spam. Uh, I was like, it was like, why would, why would somebody want me? You know, for me growing up in Indianapolis, being from the, being from here, um, it's, it's taken me a long time to understand, you know, why can't, then IUPUI now IU Indianapolis, why can't we compete, especially in basketball? And as I was going through, having the conversations that I met with President Whitten, as I met with the, uh, the, the team inside, I started to get excited every day. And, and one thing that got me really excited about it during the process there was, uh, and, and I was, I was lucky enough to be able to call Mark Miles and Doug Boles and a lot of people who have done doing sports now, who've done politics before. And a thing that got me really excited. I, I was talking to somebody one time and I was telling 'em, Hey, I'm gonna apply for this. And they said, why would you apply people like you aren't successful in athletics? And I was like, oh, okay. Um, well now I really want it. Um, and you know, when I, when I talked to all the people that had been involved before, they said, you know, athletics and politics are the exact same, right? Um, you have a constituent base that you have to win over, um, you know, if you win or lose. And, and a lot of people think they knew a better job than you. Um, so it wasn't gonna be anything new from that side. It was just gonna be the, the topics. Uh, were gonna be really new, but you know, obviously now we're building an on-campus arena. Um, a lot of investment from, from the entire iu, uh, big IU group. So it was exciting along the way. And also, as I mentioned earlier, there's 365 of these jobs in the country. Um, and the fact that I was even being considered for one, not coming from athletics, uh, was, was an honor in itself. And yeah. Um, you know, it's, it's been a fun pro ride so far. Yeah. Coach, similar kind of, uh, a story here. You're eight years at West Liberty, which is a Division II powerhouse in basketball, you're winning 30 plus games a year. Pretty stable. Mm-hmm. You know, pretty nice, pretty nice life out there in West Virginia. Where did the IU Indianapolis job get on your radar to coach the men's basketball team? Yeah. Um, kinda like you said, I was, I was very comfortable with West Liberty. We were very successful at West Liberty and, you know, just there, the shot in the arm, something different. And I was actually involved in, in the IU Indy basketball job the year prior and yeah. Didn't get it and was stuff happens and so a year later the job comes back open and, and I was lucky enough and, and fortunate enough to, to get the position and, um, it's just something I, I needed, I needed in my life. My wife needed a, a new place to live and it was somewhere foreign to us. Like we were in West Virginia, we were in Wheeling, West Virginia, and we were. You know, town of 30,000 people, and we've been there for, for quite a while. So, um, the opportunity arose to come to Indianapolis and, and so far it's been great. This is a big challenge, taking this over in 2023, coming in this season and taking over the iu uh, indie men's basketball team or big challenges. And I think I love about people that have athletic backgrounds. We're not, not afraid of big challenges, you know, stepping in there and, and getting, making progress. Uh, each day, each year stacks up, months, games, the whole nine yards. Talk to me about Luke, a few of your early wins, uh, since taking over, uh, athletics in 2023. Yeah. We've done a really good job of getting the alumni involved. Um, mm-hmm. You know, when I, when I first took the role, there was kind of a list of people I was calling down and, and said, Hey, I, I, you know, if I'm gonna do this, I need your help. And we had some early buy-in from alums. Um, we made it. Really known that we wanted to win in everything we do, right? We wanted to win in the classroom and, and we're getting, uh, uh, all three or two years now it's over a 3.3 gpa as a department, we wanna win in the community. We've, we've broken, um, um, or I don't know if we've broken records, but we've done more community service hours each year that we've been here. Started a couple, uh, community service projects. We do very first, uh, day of the year we do, it's called Jag Jump Off, where we take our student athletes in downtown India and clean up, um, downtown. And it gives 'em opportunity to really take some pride in what they're doing. And then we wanna win on the court and field a play, right? And we've had some success. Uh, we need to have more success, but, um, those are big. But, you know, Nate, the thing I'm most proud of in our, our first year, we raised more money in one week, um, our first year on campus than they did the whole entire previous year. Um, and we've really put an emphasis on, on, um, to me, you know, this is the, the political person to me, if I can get somebody to give money. Um, to our organization, it means they, they're buying in, right? We're doing something, uh, that gets their buy-in. 'cause it's not easy to get money from people. And each year we've improved our fundraising. Each year we've broken, uh, we do a, a Jag Giving Week. We've, we've broken the record. Each of those three, three years that I've been here also brought on a ton of sponsors. I mean, we think we had. Roughly 10 when I got here. And then, uh, you know, now we're, we're in the, um, uh, low forties, high thirties, let's go when it comes to it. And, and it shows like what we're, we're putting together, you know, something that works. And, and you know, I tell people a lot, um, uh, what they ask me, what I do at games and, and it's such a foreign question because I, 'cause I cheer, I yell, right? I, I'm, I'm getting excited with our players. I'm high fiving guys. And, um, you know, I, I was at our volleyball tournament this weekend. That's why, that's why my voice is raspy, uh, because I'm yelling just with everybody else. And you know, I wanna show our parents, our student athletes, our alums, that I'm as invested in this as they are. Yeah. Coach, talk to me about what was appealing about coming to be the head men's basketball coach at iu? Indeed. Yeah, I, I, uh, I came here to flip a program and we haven't had a winning season, I think since 2011. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and for me, that's something I've always wanted to do. I'm coming from a program that was ultra successful and was it successful? What, 'cause you played there as well, right? I did. Was it successful when you were playing there? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was. So like, like, I mean, how many positive record positive seasons has Wesley League put up in a row? Um, we've been in the NCAA Tournament since 2010 every single season. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So we've been in a couple national title games, couple final fours, elite eights. Yeah. And, you know, we were right there banging on the door, but it's just something, you know, I wanted to flip this program and we're going to flip it and, you know, this takes time and, and, um, you know, right now, I'm sure we'll get into this later. We're, we're dealing with it. We're going through it right now, and it's part of the growing pains and the growing process and. Um, you know, we're just, we're gonna get everyone on the same page, but for me personally, um, this was a perfect storm, you know, with, with the new arena coming into play next year, and it's, it's gonna be a, a great recruiting tool for us. And just the people itself, you know, the people here in Indianapolis remind me of the people in West Virginia. Just very humble, blue collar, hardworking, and people that you enjoy being around. And I can tell you this. There hasn't been a day that I feel like I'm coming into a job. It's, it's fun. It's, it's where, where we work is fun and the people get along, but we also work really hard and, and that's something that I wanna surround myself with. It's no, no secret. Right. You talk about not having a winning season since 2011, like there, it's a big task to undertake. Where does someone start? Like you're coming in in May season, you know you're getting ready, you guys just started a couple weeks ago. You're coming in, taking over this program. What's the first thing you have to do when you're thinking about how to flip a program? It's different now than it was maybe 10 years ago. Um, I got the job and we had run one returning player from the previous roster, and then we had a, maybe a handful of guys that the previous staff has signed. Um, so you have a couple new recruits, but you only have one player that's like actively on the roster from my, so do you have like a sit down? Like you and who is that? Aj, you and aj, he was like, Hey, what's up? He's all on board. I give AJ like, AJ is like the perfect person to coach. You tell him to run his head through that tv, he's gonna do it. Yeah. Like, he's just, he's great and he does whatever you tell him to. And we don't encourage him to do that. No, we don't encourage him to do that, but, um, but he would, but he would go on, he, there you go. He guy's like that. Yeah. He, he's just, he, he, he, AJ's great. And, you know, when we sat with, with the team and talked about, you know, our, our philosophy and our style of play, AJ was completely bought in. When new coaches come in, other players, this is the transfer portal era, everyone's like, yeah, I'm out. Like, I'm not going through this. I'm gonna go do X, Y, or Z somewhere else. Yeah. Okay. So you show up with a few guys signed. Mm-hmm. You show up with one returner. Mm-hmm. What do you, what do you do? You hit the phones? I call my meeting. I, I, I met with my team at West Liberty and as soon as the meeting was over, four of them texted me and said, I wanna come with you. So those guys came aboard, and then we had two commitments at West Liberty. That were committed to us at West Liberty that said, I wanna come with you to IU Indy. So we were able to grab those players. What does that mean to you for a young high school senior who is, you know, his life is gonna go play for a winning program out in West Virginia. Play at the D-II level to believe in you and to kind of hitch his wagon to your cart or your horse and, uh, and to move across the country. Like, I mean, I don't know, how far is it, how many miles it to West Virginia? Five, four and a half, five hours away to be part of this team in Indianapolis that also hasn't had a winning season since 2011. Like, what does that say about those guys and you, and like, how does that make you feel? Yeah, those, we spent a lot of time with those guys that, that came over with us, you know, the transfers and, and, and. Um, you know, we recruited 'em outta high school. They were all high school recruits, so, you know, we were in the recruiting process with them and that's usually a two year deal at the Division II level. So we got to know 'em, we got to know their families. They played for us for a couple seasons. Mm-hmm. And then obviously they wanted to come over and flip the culture too, help flip the culture. And those guys are guys that I liked, not just basketball wise, but I like 'em as people too. And I thought that they would be good, uh, additions to the team as far as team chemistry and just can help bridge the gap with what I like and what I don't like in terms of playing and practice. And then those guys have been great. And then the two, the two, uh, recruiting transfers that we brought in are, are guys that were, you know, at other Division II institutions, um, yeah. That, that really wanted to be a part of this style of play. And both of them came over and, um, both have been great. Yeah. And, and we're gonna continue to get better. Yeah. And you're talking about this style of play, which is very interesting. It's almost like there's a system behind the style of play. Talk to me about what. Uh, IU indie basketball looks like. 'cause it's, it's a little, I would say non-traditional to most people like this is, and anyone has seen any clips. I, it first got on my radar after the Ohio State game where you guys scored 102. 102, two Ohio States 118. But like, you're, you're putting up a hundred points on a Big Ten team. Talk to me about the system and your style of play. I'll give you the good version. I could give you another version of what I'm going through right now. I'll give, I'll give you the good version right now. So it's, um, it, it's something that's not done at the Division I level. Right now we're the only team that's actually running what is called the, the system. And, and essentially from a, from a defensive perspective, we're, we're guarding 94 feet. Um, we're trying not to let the ball get inbounds. And if it, if it is inbounded, we're gonna run a trap and, and then we're gonna allow players to make decisions on the floor defensively. Yeah. And every recruit says they wanna do it. Until we actually do it. It's, it's tough. Yeah. It's not a half court game. You're, you're literally make or miss, you're picking up 94 feet and it's exhausting. It's hard. Like it's, it's uncomfortable and, and, um, but everyone sees the, the end game is, is you score a ton of points and, and we've been successful and they wanna be a part of that. But a lot goes into it. Like, you have to have a, a deep enough bench of people that can play. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, 'cause if you're running up and down 94 feet for. You know, 15 minutes, like there's still, what is that Public math? 35 more minutes question mark. 25 more minutes. 25. There's still 25 more minutes in there. And you need to have players that can go How many, how big is the roster? We have 15 guys on the roster, but we'll play 10, maybe 11. Some games like 11 players. And that's appealing, right? That's appealing to recruits 'cause there's an opportunity to play early. Yeah. So we sell that and um, and it's a fun brand, right? There's more possessions of the game. What's the biggest surprising thing? Like let's say kid signs up, transfers in does whatever, and he is like, Hey, this is the system we play 94 feet. And they're like, oh, I love it. Yeah, absolutely. And like, where does the moment of shot come for that player that realizes like, oh, this is, this is legit. The first conditioning test. Uh oh. What, what's the conditioning test? So you know what a suicide is, right? Yeah, yeah. So a suicide, essentially we're doing a double suicide. Um, and under a minute with a minute break in between, you have to run six of those. Okay. Wait, wait. So you could probably do that right now is that side to side baseline full court. And, but instead of running back, you just work your way back. So then you go to that free throw line. Run back. Oh. So it's basically double And I got cut from like the basketball team in sixth grade, but I remember those. Yeah. So yeah, free throw back half quarter back, half quarter back. Free throw back. Yep. But instead of running back on your last, uh, baseline test, you just run to the closest free throw line and then you work your way back. Wow. So it's a double, but you could do it right. It's not that hard. You just gotta put your head down. We should test that. Just try. You just have to try, honestly. Yeah. It should be the the get in test. Yeah. Have the guys outside. That's what we need. If we had the full, like we need to get a whole like basketball, like, like sports arena. Here, we could do that thing. See what we got. Here we go. Yeah. I mean the first conditioning test, you know, you gotta go out there, but it does, when, if I were thinking about the benefits of it is a way to compete probably a little bit. Um, if you think of like recruiting classes that really change a program. If you in insert a system where people, you're, you're running 'em to death, like you're, hey, we're gonna be the most in shape team out there. It could probably bring some success pretty early on. I would assume. That's kind like, I mean, not a basketball coach, but my perspective where we. Earn, you know, the, the reputation of being in the system is our conditioning throughout the summer and fall is our, is our open gyms. And we, we, we, our open gyms, we keep track of the winning and losing and we, they're different teams every day and, and we're, we play to a hundred with actually pressing. And if you do that the right way and you pick up, you guard, you trap, you chase, you're gonna be in way better shape than, than just running suicides all day. Where, where did you learn about the system? So I played for a coach, Jim Crutchfield. Um. And then I was fortunate enough to work with him. He hired me when I was 23 years old as a full-time assistant at West Liberty. And then when he got the call to go to another school, um, they hired me. And, and if I were to try to change this system at West Liberty, they would've killed me. Like they would've, they, the people there are so accustomed to winning and scoring a hundred points, and, and if you don't win or score a hundred points, they're mad at you there. And that's what we're trying to build here is, yeah, let's score, but let's also win on, on top of that. So we're, we're, we're doing one of them right now. Yeah. We're just not doing the other, yeah. I mean, you're scoring points. You can't, you can't argue with that. Yeah. Okay. Now he's gotta get the two, the second domino to fall there. Uh, Luke, where did you first, uh, hear about coach and where did he get on your radar? Yeah. Um, actually my assistant. Um, former, former graduate assistant basketball coach, um, he came in with a list of, of five guys, um, and Coach Hallett was, was number one on, on the list and said, Hey, you know, check this out. And it's funny how it works, Nate. So, um, you know, we, we were obviously watching Coach's success, seeing everything they were doing, but then, uh, the Athletic did a story on Coach Crutchfield and what they were doing down at, at at Nova Southeastern and kind of talked about the success. And then, uh, you know, it's as, as things play out, there's, Tennessee does this on the women's side, or at least does a version of the system to, to be fair to what everybody's doing. And, and last year around Christmas, my wife and I were at a hotel and the Tennessee women's team was staying there. And I, I sat down with, with the coach in the lobby. Um, you just said, Hey, you're the coach. Let, let's talk about the system. My wife, uh, my wife comes down and she was like, why? What are you doing? Um, and I was like, well, if she didn't wanna talk to me, she would've sat on the other side of the lobby. Um, so it's that Hoosier in you. Yeah, exactly. No, no strangers. Uh, right. And, and I talked to her for a few minutes about like, Hey, you know, does this work, can this, you know, is this working on the, um, is this working at the high D-I level? She had come from, from Marshall, right? Mm-hmm. And, and had been in your guys' league. Mm-hmm. And just kinda really chatted with her. And she was, uh, and then, you know, as the trip went on, I, I talked to the assistant coaches and, you know, and then this year when we were looking to hire, um, uh, looking to hire again, my assistant grant comes in and he was like, you know, who was 33 and six this year, right. And I was like, uh, who was that? And he was like, uh, Ben Howlett at West Liberty. And then, um, sometime during that portion and, and the next day, Ben had reached out and said he was still interested in the job. And, you know, it's for me. You talk about these things, like the system's a mentality, right? And, and we have to do things a little bit different at IU Indy, uh, everybody in the mid-major level does. But you know, I played Division III football as as, as as you did. And, you know, um, I believe there's a lot more, um, design and a lot more innovation at the lower level of college sports. Division II, Division III, because you can try different stuff and nobody's gonna say, well, look how crazy Mike Leonard is at Franklin College for running the run-and-shoot, right? Um, but then all of a sudden you, you put together the number one offense in the country. You start winning, uh, um, Heartland Conference Championships and all those different things. So I tell people, and I'm, I'm very open about this, the system is the run-and-shoot in football. 20 years ago, nobody, everybody said 20 years ago said, we can't run the, you can't run the run-and-shoot at Division II. You can't run it at Division I. You can't run in the NFL. Everyone is running a version of the run-and-shoot, um, at all levels of, of football now. And you know, you look at what the Pacers did last year, they didn't trap on every possession. They, but they, they pressed on every possession. Alabama, you know, they, they, they get up and down. Everybody will run a in five years after we're, we're showing everybody the success. Everyone is gonna be running a version of the system now. Everybody's gonna have a little bit of their own, you know, Hey, I'm gonna do this instead of this, or, you know, I may not trap after misses or all those different things, but people are gonna run this version because, you know, in today's world, if you can tell a kid like, Hey, you're gonna play 22 minutes and you're gonna score 16 points, um, they're gonna be into it. Um, now it's just the, the buying into the, to the mental part of it. But it's been pretty exciting. Yeah. What's the biggest mind mindset shift that these players have to make if they're gonna commit to running the system? Every high school player, every junior college, every transfer player says they're playing hard, but they're not. Like, you could, you can watch it film and say, well, you didn't run hard here where you could affected the play, or you could have done this here and you would've affected the play. But every single kid says they're playing hard. And they're not. So we're just trying, what we're trying to do, essentially, and I've said this, you know, multiple times now, we've talked about it as a team. Like we're trying to play a 40 minute game, like we're down eight with two minutes left for 40 minutes. That's what we're essentially trying to do. You know what you need? You need some like heart rate monitors and be like, Hey, who's in zone three? Who's in zone? I see you dip it in zone two, buddy. Come on. I wanna not put anyone in. That's because I'm not playing hard. You know what's crazy about it though is so five months been on campus, watch a lot of practices, watch games during coach's interview. He, he, he had made a comment and you, you're kind of like, all right, what is that comment made? He was, um, I think the question was like, what happens if guys aren't, if we're not playing well? And he's like, they need to play harder. And you're like, all right. Easy, easy thing to say. Right? But, and, and he's really, he's really preached it. Play harder. Play harder. I think the fascinating, for me, a fascinating thing for me is I'm watching games. If four out of the five guys are playing at a different level, it shows the fifth guy. So there's no hiding in this. Um, there is no ability. Um, like, you know, I, after games, we'll, we'll, we'll text or have conversations and, you know, we'll bring up things and it's like, oh, well this, this guy, these four guys are playing really hard. This guy wasn't, or, or these seven guys were playing really hard, these three weren't. So there is a, a part of accountability that I didn't think of until coach got here that now everyone can see who is playing hard every moment. And it's, it's been really interesting to watch. I feel like this would also like change your perspective on not only basketball, but like how you live every day. You know, you talk about like effort, effort makes things get better. Like whether it's a hard scenario in front of you, challenge all these things. Talk about, have you seen a shift, I mean even at your time at West Liberty in players or versus your time here at I Indianapolis? I could tell you this from a personal standpoint. And my assistant coaches think I'm crazier. I, I try to do everything up tempo. Like I'll, I'll be the first one done eating like at a team meal every single time. And like, I just, I take showers faster than anybody. Like I'm always fastest in the shower. Like I do everything up tempo because I think, well, if you can win basketball games playing upt tempo, you can probably do other really good things if you do things up tempo. Yeah. So like everything, my whole mindset is I wanna, I wanna do everything fast. And my wife thinks I'm absolutely like, insane. 'cause I'll just get done with a meal Right. Within 30 seconds. Just be like, did you even enjoy it? I'm like, yeah, I just wanna eat fast. And that's great. So like, everything and, and from, you know, getting stuff done in the office to, to drinking coffee. Like everything we do, we try to go up tempo. Yeah. And, um, wanna have a bunch of energy too. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't do well with guys that don't have energy. This, me and them don't work out well. Yeah. And um. I told them that like the beginning of the season, like I just, I, I, I don't want empire or energy vampires. I want guys that just have energy all the time. So yeah, we're working on that right now. We're working on that as a team. Tell 'em, hold on. Tell 'em the story about if, if recruits don't walk with you. Yeah. So like, my thing is with recruiting and we're talking about investing, you know, scholarships, you know, into, into these kids' lives and, and investing money, like actual money and it's important. And if we're gonna spend time with you guys might as well like him, right? So if we're on a visit and a recruit does, you know, we're walking around campus and he's walking slow, I don't want 'em, I want guys that like have pace when they walk and walk with me and don't have their phones out. Like, talk to me. Do certain things. Are you telling me their kids, come on, a recruit are gonna a visit and they have their phone now? Lemme tell you something. So there's been times where I've been meeting with them and their parents, right? Like, we'll be getting ready to either A, make 'em an offer or B, like this is what you gotta do. And they'll pull out their phone and start texting. I'm just like, let's get these guys outta here. Let's, let's get 'em out. That's not working. Hope you enjoy your stay in Indianapolis. Like, hope you outta a good time. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. That's crazy. Crazy. I, that's just a, a wild experience. Okay, so talk to me too. You talk about like re recruiting scholarships, like things are changing as fast as the system in the tempo. That's as fast as things are changing in college athletics. What has this shift in NIL and scholars and like just the whole nine yards? What does the landscape look like, Luke? Yeah. You know, I, I tell people I'm lucky not growing up in the collegiate space or in the athletic space. This is, this is just life, right? And in fact, one of the big things I harp on when I go speak at events or I talk to different people in the field, is that athletics isn't the first industry in the world that's been disrupted. And we need to stop acting like it's the first industry in the world that's been disrupted, um, because we're never gonna get to where we want to go. Um, I, I, look, I, I'll be the first one to tell you. NIL needs more transparency, right? Because, you know, if we were giving you a hundred dollars when you were 18 years old, Nate, you would probably tell somebody it was 250 bucks, right? And, you know, you're, um, now, now we're giving kids, uh, now kids are getting more money and they're telling people. So we've, we've created this artificial number that, um, that kids think they have to have and all their friends have to have. We are just trying to adjust on every day. I think, um, you know, one thing I I've done my entire career is I'm not afraid to fail. So we'll try something, um, we may fail fast and then move on from it, but, you know, we're looking at a lot of different opportunities with, um, with different, different companies, different ways to get, um, uh, funds into the department. And, you know, at the end of the day, I, I hear a lot of my colleagues who, you know, talk about, you know, this is the end of college sports and all this different stuff, right? That's, that's been the, you know, 20 years ago. I'm sure they're having the same conversation and you know, we just, we worry about what's right in front of us and what's right in front of us is winning games, right? Yeah. Not just in basketball, but in all on all our sports and, um, and, and turning out 300 really good collegiate student athletes. And I think we're doing a really good job of that. Yeah. Coach, talk to me about, uh, getting your start and what it took to recruit a kid and get them to commit to your university and, and get them to stay for four years versus today. Like, it has to be different. I mean, it is different. Let's put call a spade a spade. It's, it's a lot different. Uh, I feel like players are also quick to like, oh, I don't like this. Or a little bit of adversity and, you know, I might just pack my bags and I'm headed to sunny Milwaukee. Yeah, it's, it's like speed dating recruiting's, like speed dating now. And you know, back in the day you would recruit guys and you, you think big picture, you'd think, well, maybe they won't be good this year, but in two to three years they're gonna be really good for us. And you could develop, and your team would have an identity, not so much anymore. And, and you take the good with the bad, right? So now when you recruit a player, the first question that they typically ask is, well, how much, how much can you give us? And like, number that guy's just straight up that the number one thing. But here's the thing I don't even mess with. I just, that's not the right fit for us. We're not, we're not looking, we're not looking for that. We're looking for guys a, that wanna get their education and B, wanna win, wanna win basketball games. That's what we're looking for. But there's just so many guys that are just out to get a paycheck and, which is like, I get it, I get it. But like. We wanna win, right? Yeah. If, if you want, like, I think winning trumps a lot of issues, right? Like win and, yeah. I mean, like, think about the real world too. How many, how many people take the lower paying job for the opportunity to get the right experience and direct to be on it, on something that they want to be on. Sure. Or, or how many people start an in the real world and say, how much you gonna pay me? Zero. Right. So like that, like that's the, and and that's the tough part about this. So we, you know, we have a, um, yeah, it's like what? I mean, would you, would, if someone paid you more money to go to a place that just doesn't feel right, are you still gonna, like, I'm sure there are, people are like, yeah dude, I'll get my bag. Like whatever. And I think kids are listening to the wrong people, right? They, they a lot of, and, and there's some good ones, but there's some, there are some players that have so-called, you know, agents or managers, whatever you wanna call 'em, that are telling them to go the, to the place that pays the highest rather than the right fit. So yeah, it's a slippery slope. Yeah. And I mean, there are lots of people that choose. Uh, that don't take whatever job it is because it just pays the highest. Mm-hmm. Like it because it's the highest salary. You know, like, you know, okay, go be an investment banker, you're gonna work 95 hours a week and you probably have no social life and this, that, and the other thing. Uh, or you could, you know, I dunno, go join whatever other company and you'll make a little less money, but you will enjoy it and it's a good fit. Mm-hmm. That's an interesting perspective that I've never thought of when it comes to all things recruiting in an IL. Yeah. And I think, I think also where it's tough is, you know, you're on a team and, and these guys got life pretty good, right? They're, they're, they're, a lot of 'em are getting their school paid for. They're getting three meals a day. They're, they're all life is good, but if they're not playing or they think they should be playing more, they transfer, or if they're too good now, then they transfer. So like, there's just, what are you supposed to do? How do you, how do you supposed to like, develop and, and have an identity as a team if these guys, when things get tough, leave, well, guess what? When you get a real job, it's gonna be tough. Not everything's gonna be really that easy. Like things are gonna get tough or if you're, if you're good and you're having success, you leave. So you have to re-recruit your own players and that's just kind of the nature of it now. That's wild. So how does a school like IU Indy compete and really get to like, like if you're thinking five years, 10 years down the road, what are the things that have to happen for you guys to be in the tournament, to be conference champions? I think we're doing some of 'em now, right? It's, it's getting buy-in from the alums. 'cause, you know, you had to raise money. Just like what does a, uh, basketball, a Division I men's basketball team have to have in the, like, in the bank to start shelling out to, uh, I dunno, to make a run in the tournament? Well, here, here's the thing. So, um, and, and, and I tell our coaches, you have to be, uh, great coaches and great, um, great evaluators, or you have to be good coaches and, and great evaluators, right? So we don't know what it takes. There's all these numbers out here. I'll, I'll use this example. Um, last year, uh, there was a team, and I don't wanna say who it is, but everybody, the kid was a starting quarterback and everybody said, in order to recruit that kid, you had to have a million dollars and you were gonna give a million dollars to play it. He left the team he went to because they didn't pay him, and they, the, their deal was a hundred thousand. Right? So, so there's this huge delta, and that's where I say when we need more transparency around this, right? Like, we, we, we often joke in our, our athletic director meetings where it's like, all right, Oakland, you know, I, I heard you're paying guys, you know, this amount of money. And then the Oakland ad later tells me, he was like, we're like, you know, divide that by seven, right? So, you know, you definitely need dollars in, in the kitty to, to figure out. And, and that's in everything, right? It's fundraising and it's, it's NIL. It's, um, to do the things you want to do. Um, but you know, you, you, 'cause you could give a lot of money to a kid who's terrible. Right. I mean, you, you really don't know if he's gonna be good or if she's gonna be good until they walk into the, to the room. And so it's, it's a, it's a little bit of a balance act, balancing act right now. I, I am, I'm convinced there's probably a team that will make the NCAA tournament this year that has $0 in NIL. You think so? I do a hundred percent. How? I was gonna say, I feel like I looked last year of like, who made the runs and it was like, I felt like it was one of the most chalk mm-hmm. Like tournaments ever. Like, you don't see because what happens? Uh, what, like, again, like one example would be like Sam Houston, that guy comes to iu. Like, and so it's hard to build up like a same thing with you guys and Valpo and like these teams that used to get into the tournament. I'm curious to see how that ends up playing out if you don't have. A million dollars or even $500,000 to just start signing these players and then divide that by six or whatever. Yeah. Well, I mean, just be clear, if somebody wants to put in 500,000 or a million dollars, if one of the get in listeners wants to Yeah, yeah. Like, just give me a call. Yeah, absolutely. We'll have a social experiment. A lot of people, if you look online, you're hearing like, oh, poor us poor this, like, college sports are ruined, blah, blah. And it's like, Hey man, this is innovation. Like you gotta figure out how to win with the new system. Oh, I like it. Yeah. You like that? I like it. Yeah. Take us through, uh, the season thus far. Right? Where, how many games In eight games? Yeah. Eight games in two and six. Yeah. Two and six. Here, I'll word it like this. I don't think we've played a complete game yet. I think we've, we've played well in spurts and we've played really bad in spurts. And look, I knew there was gonna be growing pains coming in. I, I knew it. There's gonna be growing pains and there's gonna be times where. You know, things don't look promising. And that's all part of it though. Yeah. But we're, we're trying to build this, not just for this year, but we're trying to build this for, for years to come. Yeah. And I can tell you this, there's no one more frustrated than me right now. There's no one more frustrated than, than within our program, than me. And, and I literally haven't went to bed in 48 hours. I haven't slept, I haven't like gone to sleep yet. And it's, we got back yesterday at 11:00 AM we were out in Colorado. Didn't go to sleep last night. Like, we're doing everything humanly possible to get this done, and my staff and I, and, and we're gonna work and we're gonna, we're gonna get it done. And, and yeah, it might not look good right now at times it might look good at times, but like in the end, we're gonna continue to get better and we're gonna put a product on the floor that, that IU Andy can be proud of. That was 7 48 hours is a wild, like a lot of coffee. Lot love. I I I love though, like you're just so focused on this thing. Yeah. Like, you're so, yeah. And I, how do you, obviously, you know, two and six not where we wanna be. We'll just call again, call it spade a spade there. But how do you balance, like, this was a team that had one player on it in May, you know? Yeah. I I, that's an excuse. Like, we've got everything you need to win. I love that. I love that. We've got everything you need to win. We've got, you know, a great city. We've got good players and, you know, we've people say about the arena's fine. Everything is fine. Yeah. Everything, everything is fine. And, and. It, it's us, it's the team, it's the coaches. We're not coaching 'em good enough. Right. The players aren't playing, playing good enough. I'll put it all on my, I'll, I'll take the complete blame. Yeah. That, that's no problem. I got no problem doing that. Yeah. And it's just one of those things that it takes time and, and right now the only thing on my mind is how do we win on Saturday? I'm not gonna, I don't care about Thanksgiving. I, I don't care about any of, I care about how are we gonna win on Saturday? That's the only, yeah. How do you distill that desire? How do you distill that to your players? How do you get coaches, players? How do you get them all to feel the same way and have this same, I mean, obsession with winning, call it the brainwashing effect. We talk about brainwashing and, you know, we met after Fri I think Friday we played and, and you know, didn't play well, got beat and, and we just talked about. At the time we were, we were two and five team. That's who we are. We're two and five. This is where we're at in the Horizon League. But if, and if you like, I always try to find a positive. There's always a positive that I try to find. And yeah. Every team within our league is, is kind of sitting right in that same, you know, position right now. Yeah. And when does conference play really get cooking? I think we have some conference games coming up with the next week or two. December 5th. Yeah. A week from uh, uh, yeah, December 5th. Is Morehead State in No. No, they're not. No, but that's what we play Saturday. We'll be ready. That's, yeah, that's our last, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And then, then Youngstown State, and then that's where we start to get into like the meat of, Hey, we gotta win conference games. Yeah. Yeah. The brainwashing effect. Okay. I feel like a little bit of that has to come from a lot of people. It, it can't be lip service. Like, it can't be like, talk about this, talk about this. It's like, you're living this. Mm-hmm. He's like, this is a guy who eats dinner in 30 seconds. Like he's about pace. I think that that's one thing if you're a coach out there that's listening and you're like, oh, I wanna pick up some things from, from a coach at the Division I level is. Uh, the, it's gonna sound so cliche, but the practice what you preach. Mm-hmm. You know, like you're in there and, and showing the way, not just telling the way one winning's hard. Right. I mean, I think it's, it's funny, I mean, obviously coaches had a ton of success of West Liberty and all those different things, but I, but I guarantee you, you tell you along the way, it's, it's hard and, you know. One play can make a difference in the game. Right? Doing that little thing can, can make a difference. The same way doing a little thing in, in life can, can lead you to close a deal or not close a deal. And getting everybody to buy into that, that mindset, you know, in the classroom, in the community, on the court, um, and then getting wins, um, is it's, it's a tough thing to, to get people to buy in. And especially at our institution, you know, we, we joke about the ghosts that I'm, I try not to do anymore, but we had the ghost of the past when I got here, right? It was, well, we can't do this because we tried that 15 years ago and we can't do this because we tried this and we can't do this. And look, there's a lot of people told me we can't do this system in Division I. You know, I think every athletic director of every basketball coach would tell you they, they wish they were undefeated right now. Um, but the reality is, is, you know, we're doing something different because it, it will work here. And, you know, coach, you got a lot of calls after the Ohio State game, right? From people trying to figure out about the system and those type of things. It was, uh, it. But we lost that. That's what I kept telling, like I was getting more attention after that game from like a, an email or a phone call standpoint than I ever have. And, you know, we played a national championship game at West Liberty and I got way more, you know, phone calls and emails from people asking about the system after the Ohio State game. And it, it hasn't stopped like this whole season. And I, I, I'm flattered and, and, and you know, it's great, but like the end game we're losing. We're, we're, we're, we're doing this, but we're losing. And that's, that bothers me because the big picture of things is you're judged on a win loss record. It's sad to say, but that's what you're, as a coach, you're judging on your winning loss. I mean yeah, like could be great in the community, we can get good grades, but in the end, and that stuff's all important. In the end, you are what your record is and we're two and six. Yeah. Like, and I think that it's an interesting. Position to be in, because everyone wants their coach, obviously out in the community. Everyone wants their coach out in, you know, being an awesome Hoosier, right? Being an awesome member of the city of Indianapolis, great citizen doing all stuff, mentor all stuff. But if you can be so great, but if you're one and whatever, like who cares? Hey, you know, Jim's a really good guy, just not that good of a coach. Mm-hmm. Like I could see. What have you learned coming from 200 plus victories? A ton of success, not a lot of losses. What's this first. Six months taught you? Yeah, I think that's a fair question. Like, um, and I try to like, evaluate everything, like everything in our, within our job. Yeah. And I try to evaluate players and my assistant coaches and, but I also evaluate myself every day. And the one thing I, I've kind of changed my tune on something and it goes into the recruiting philosophy and the recruiting process that, um, you know, I think something we don't have is a necessity and we're gonna address that, you know, in the off season. And I thought we could continue to do the same, the same things that we did at West Liberty and they would just automatically carry over. Well, some of 'em are, but some of 'em aren't. And we just gotta, you know, fine tune, tinker around with some things and, and, um, you know, I feel like if you're not working every day, then you know you're gonna gonna get left behind. Same thing with recruiting. Like if you're not recruiting every day, you're gonna get left behind. So every day I devote an hour to, to every night I devote an hour to recruiting and just call kids every single night. Isn't that how many even pick up the phone? They all wanna, uh, text now. Yeah. I'll call, no one picks up the phone. I wanna talk to you. You gotta be focused on how we're going to, you know, win more games today, win more games this Saturday, but you also gotta be thinking how we're gonna win games next year and you gotta sell those kids on the product today, but how do you balance the future with the present and all those different things. Yeah. And I'm lucky to be surrounded by five really good assistant coaches. Yeah. So I wasn't good at delegating, uh, before I got here, so I'm, I'm working on like, I'm getting better at it. Yeah. Like I, I've given my assistant coaches some things to do, uh, but uh, it's just something like, it's, I can't function unless I, if I do all this work, like, I just, it's like exercise. I can't go on if I don't exercise. Yeah. Right. So like. I'm, I don't know. I'm just a weirdo, I guess. No, I love it. I'm, I'm a psycho like that. I love it. It's great. Nate, you gotta invite coach to your run club. Yeah. Are you a runner? Yeah. Every day. Oh yeah. Every day. Yeah. Heck yeah. We run Wednesdays and Thursdays, baby. He can give you a good little tour. Yeah, we're down here. Run like down here? Yeah, like literally right over here on Wednesdays. How, how far? Uh, so half of it is, so it's seven. I like to run in like really bad weather. I love that kind of stuff. The crazier it is, the more I'm like, yeah, let's go do it. Let's do it. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I just finished, I did an ultra across Zion, so it was 40 miles and I'm, I just signed up for a 50 miler out in Steamboat Springs. So like I'm into the like, 'cause again, look at me like I was never gonna be a Division I athlete, so I just like somehow wound up in like the alter community, but it's like, hey, I can suffer for longer than anyone else. Like I'll just give me pain and suffering and that's what I'll go do. I'll run like my 14 minute miles for 40 miles and we'll call it a day. Love it. Um, here's my question and then I wanna get into some more Indiana kind of discussion. This was my last, maybe not my last, but. Why is IU Indianapolis positioned to be a top tier basketball program, top tier athletic university? Look, I, I, I think we, one of the great things of the transition is it's allowed us to be more prideful about, about who we are, right? Um, and not just from basketball program, but from, from an institution. Uh, we've a great leader at the top of President Whitten, great leader on the campus, and Cha Chancellor Latha Ramchand. But, you know, you are, uh, you're, you're three mile, I mean, I don't even know, three miles, one mile from, from all these great things in downtown Indianapolis, right? We just got the, the R1 institution. That's, that's made as a even better from the research institute, obviously of the, the, the med school on campus. You have IU Health, they have all these great things down there. I mean, you have, it's a very unique urban campus, um, and a lot of people are starting to go there. I mean, enrollment's been up, and a lot of people think, but you know, I always tell people, Nate, if I can get you on campus. I'm gonna get you back another time like that. That's, that's, the campus is really unique. You have these great sports venues. I mean, you have the world's fastest pool, you have the, you know, the world's fastest track at one point. And then we're, we're building a new basketball venue that will host the, the world's fastest, uh, uh, offense. Right. So, you know, these, these things, the marketing communications department really sold that one. Come on now. Exactly. Right. And, and it's a great education. The kids are great. I mean, you know, one of the big things we found from, from bringing on these new sponsors is like, Hey, we, we wanna get in front of the student athletes. We wanna get in front of, you know, kids on campus and, you know, they're hiring these IU Indy kids and they're, you know, there's a company we work with. Who they said when they came as a sponsor, they'd be happy to get an intern every other year from us. Uh, all three years they've got an intern and they've hired two of the three, they'll probably end up hiring the third. So, I mean, this is, it's, it's Indianapolis. I mean, we're the, we're the only public, uh, uh, institution within Indianapolis. And, you know, we're Grier, we're grind, you know, we grind. We do a lot of great things, uh, on campus and, you know, we've been, we've been forgotten about for, for too long. And, you know, I think you've known me long enough that I'm not gonna do anything where, where I'm gonna become in second. So. Amen. It's gonna be a lot of fun on that. Uh, coach, why is IU Indianapolis position to be a top tier basketball team? Yeah, I'm gonna start. Just a general area for recruiting. You know, if you talk the state of Indiana and the Indianapolis surrounding area, it's got great high school basketball with great high school coaches. So that's been like, one of the fun parts for me in taking this job is getting out and meeting all these coaches and seeing all these players. So like, we've gotta do a really good job of putting a fence around, not just Indiana, but Indianapolis and, and get guys that we think fit our system both on and off the court. Right. That's what we're trying to do. And then second of the city of Indianapolis, like it's just sports city man. Like there are, it, it's, I'm gonna say the cults and he's gonna start like the culture doing great things right now. And the Pacers last year, you know what Coach Carlisle did? I mean you Yeah. You came in at like the peak of everything. Yeah, yeah. We're turning coach into a Colts fan. Ah, Steelers. But we're gonna, we're gonna, it just, just. You know, the people, they love sports here. And once we get this thing cranked up and, and we get, you know, our style implemented, you know, at its highest peak, and, and we get these players in here, the people are gonna come watch this play too. Like that new venue, it's a perfect size. It's, it's gonna be a great spectator, you know, great for spectators. Yeah. It's going to be great. And why can't you win here? Like it's got everything you possibly need to win. Yeah. You can win here. Mm-hmm. Interesting. It's kinda shocking. I would say like, this is Indiana. This is Indiana. Like you would think every, everyone here we grow basketball, like it win. Um, I, my dad and I would go to the Horizon League tournament and as they were tipping off for the, for the championship game, he'd always say it was then IEPY. He goes, I don't understand why EPUY is not here. Right. And you know, with all the local talent, all the local kids, and if you go back to when we were successful, um, you know, it's, it's actually, it's, it's funny you go back and look, when we were successful, you had Ron Hunter who kind of did some things differently. He was, he was pressing, he was trapping. There's a picture in the office of the last team that went to the, the won the conference championship or went to the NCAA tournament, I can't remember which. It was all five of the guys were either, um, from Indianapolis or in the donut counties. Right. And, you know, we kind of in, in 2009, 2010, kinda lost the away a little bit. Stopped, stopped recruiting Hard Indy indie, stop recruiting hard in Indiana. And you know, for me it's not just basketball. I, I want all of our teams to recruit Indiana. 'cause I, you know, we're, we're a great volleyball state, we're a good soccer state. Obviously basketball, like there are things we can do to recruit Indiana kids and be really successful. What we're doing. Yeah. And like to start, I, if I were to say like there's this, I don't know, pool of kids that probably aren't. The, like Bloomington or West Lafayette kids yet, and like, you know, you start to build there and then all of a sudden you're like in the same conversations where they're like, well, do I want to go to Bloomington or I wanna go to Indianapolis. Like, do I want to go downtown? Like that seems like a pretty, pretty sweet gig to be in downtown Indy. Like we said in the beginning, a fun challenge. Like, you know, two very challenging positions. Uh, you know, you said the big thing, the first thing you said, I wanna turn this program around. Mm-hmm. And that's like, uh, you're getting there, right? Like you're, you got the opportunity. And I love the fact that you don't make any excuses. I think that's really cool. And tells a lot like that's someone you talking about getting brainwashed. I've been here for, we're 51 minutes in. I'm brainwashed. I'm all in like we're have Nate Press. Yeah. Right? Like, don't, don't, don't make excuses. I did have one more thing to say. High school basketball season's kicked off. Mm-hmm. How's it been? Have you been to Indiana High school basketball games before? I don't think the games have kicked off yet. Oh, the season's kicked off. There's no games yet to, uh, tonight or tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. So, so real soon here, varsity. Yeah. By the time this comes out though, they'll be started. Yeah. So like, we're, we're, we're. I hired three Indiana, uh, coaches, guys that are from the state of Indiana. Yeah. And they're, we're gonna be out. Like, we're gonna be out. And, and the good thing is we don't have to go far. Like there's so many good teams and, and good games around here that you can watch a good game every night. Yeah. Luke, you need to, uh, get coach a, a bucket list of venues to hit up. Oh yeah. Like, there's like a, there's a bucket list of sweet venues that you need to go check out, especially when they're rocky. Can I give you some unsolicited recruiting advice? Sure. Unsolicited from my travels in basketball, you wanna win over some of the old timers in these communities? You just gotta say, yeah. Class basketball ruined it. Dude, I look back at these pictures. It's, it used to be insane. I, I used to think they, and I think we've probably got a little too far away from it now, but I used to think, and I'd have this debate with some of my buddies that you could run for governor on getting rid of class basketball and win. And, and I, I think it's, that was probably more 2012, 2000 that time. But, um, you know, it's, it's funny having, um. So, you know, obviously I love Indiana, I love Indianapolis. And, uh, sitting in the office with coach and his staff, we would have conversations about places, right? Gyms and football stadiums and basketball stadiums. And who has the best, who, you know, they're all Ohio guys, right? So they're, you know, they, they have this inflated thing about Ohio. So, um, you know, we, we'd have these fun debates about different places, but, you know, we gotta get 'em to, to, you know, we gotta start with Southport, right? Gotta get 'em there, then get 'em out to New Castle and then get 'em down to Washington. Yeah. I had someone from Frankfort on here talking about Everett Case Arena up in Frankfort. Oh yeah. Like, there's some, and so, I don't know if you have like looked into this, but this would be lore to know as you go to like the rural parts of Indiana. But so without class basketball, it used to just be like the local community and you had to be season ticket holders to get sectional tickets. Like these are standing room only, like we were down in, uh, hunting burg at their memorial gym and, uh, the Southridge. Home of the Raiders. Shout out. Uh, they didn't even, like, I think they have two state title appearances in history. Like one championship and one appearance. But they would still sell at The Jim, like season tickets, everything. It's crazy. And then was it 99 98 when they got rid of it? Yeah. Well, 'cause they did the championships thing for a little while. Was it? Uh, was it 98? 97. 98 because, um, 99 North Central one with Jason Gardner. Yeah. Um, but I would tell you this is, so this is an Indiana thing though, Nate. So we, so coach and I have had this debate. I've explained to him how winning a sectional was bigger than winning the state championship. And it, that's very foreign to him. Um, but you have local bragging rights. What you would rather have state bragging rights, but like you don't get to see the whole state everywhere matter. This is pre, this is pre-social media. So it's like for an entire year you get to look around everyone in your county and say, I'm better than you. Just have him come to the office, let him sit there and debate with us. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well there's 300, 300 plus teams that are playing. You win, you know, you win the sectional. I mean, you know, the Henkel, the Henkel sectional was Henkel Regional, excuse me, was really good. I mean, I still tell people to this day, the best game we've ever saw was 95 Ben Davis, where they had three Division I guys, um, verse Washington and, um, kid from Ben Davis' name, I can't remember. He hit, he had a, a pull up shot at the, the free throw line to, to win it. The mid Davis goes on and, you know, wins the state championship for second year in a row. So that's sick. Uh, I do wanna talk about moving to Indiana. What was your perspective of Indiana before you moved here? Flat land, like I'm West. Virginia's very, it's a mountain state, country road road. There you go. There you go. It is pretty cool to have a song, but like, they're just, I knew it was a basketball state, but I didn't know it was like this much of a basketball state, like my next door neighbors. Like I was taking the trash out one day and he came out and started talking to me and. Had like the newspaper that had all like the high school basketball, like, uh, previews and, and was just saying they've had that paper for like 30 years or something. He hits it every year. I'm like, high school bas. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So your thought, the initial thought was it's flat. Flat and they love basketball, but flat and they love basketball. Yeah, that's what, that's what I thought. And how's your perspective changed after six months? Not much. Not much About the same? Yeah. Been south. I'll say this, I'll say this. Better food. What was the first restaurant that you went to in central Indiana that like, changed your perspective? Like, oh, it might not be so bad here. I went to St. Elmo like the first, when my wife got here for the first time she was here. How was that the best? It's great. It's really, really good. Did you get the shrimp cocktail? I did. I got it with, uh, with Linda and we did it on the, uh, on the interview. Oh, heck yeah. Wait, wait. Did we, did we do it on the interview or did when you guys came after you got the job? After. After. Oh yeah. You did first. Yeah. First meal was the shrimp cocktail and then Okay. Were you a little bit, uh, at first like, oh, why would I get No, it's great. I loved it. It was awesome. Well, I didn't know, like sometimes you like say, Hey you gotta get the shrimp cocktail, and they're like, what are you? Great. Like, wait, so this is a perfect Ben Howlett, just so we go, two of assistants are there as the day we ran into you. Yeah, yeah. Coming out as st. Where Hering Disease and um, you know, I tell 'em all it's hot and the one assistant wouldn't eat it. So, so then Coach Eats and he's like, oh, this is really good. And he iss like digging in more. Like, he just wanted to prove that like, it was hot, but it wasn't too hot. And then you get that and you're like, yeah. I mean it's, it's, I like spice though. I there you love spice. Okay, so Fell's Pizza's good. Good. Feas a downtown one. The downtown one. It's great. Yeah. Yeah. The one I mess out. Yeah. Yeah. That's solid. Not an, not an indie thing specifically. I think it's a Louisville thing, but I respect it. Especially. Is there indie pizza? Like is there an indie pizza? Uh, like, like, not like a style, but there are places that are only in Indie that I think, like I love Futuro. Oh, that is good. Futuro iss fi. It's Detroit style. Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh, king. King Dough's an indie spot. They have like two locations, I think, but only in Indie. I mean, a classic is like Bazbeaux, Arni's ar, mic and Arni's. Mimi and Arni's. Yeah. I mean, meet Me and Arni's. I love Arni's. Yeah. What's the me Mexican food that you wanted me to try? Close to here? I think Oh, laia dot laia dot, I mean like that, that's just like. There's nothing that's gonna like change your perspective of the world, but like it's great and it's cheap and it's a good vibe. Like La Piedad's a staple around here. I like La Piedad. Um, okay. Other spots that you've just like really enjoyed and loved? What's the, uh, my family and I went, uh, the corn beef, uh, Shapiro's. Shapiro's. Oh yeah, that's we good. The, is that at Delicatessen? Yeah. What they say. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What about up in, up in Hamilton County, you have up in Fishers, there's been some stuff up there that you've liked. I get home to, like, we get home. I get home to like, that's fair. Was there, has there been anything else? Handles ice cream. Oh, he does. Like Hamilton. Has there been anything else about Indiana that's just changed your perspective or that is different than you expected? There's something I haven't done yet that I really want to do. Yeah. Uh, that I, I enjoy, like outside of basketball, I'm a, I like to fish and there are some creeks I go out like McCordsville sometimes and Yeah. Go out that way. And there's some nice ponds and creeks that I want to get into. Yeah. Yeah. Fishing, when the schedule's done, when the recruiting's done. And I get time to just enjoy something. You'll, you actually won't find me 'cause I'll be somewhere. Yeah, nowhere. But I'll be out, out there. Okay. Fishing. That's fine. That seems like such, not you really, honestly. Yeah. Like I feel like fishing is like a patient and like sit there and wait and throw something out and watch it. No, I cat artificial lu. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta spin constantly. Re in. Um, I love that man. Uh, Luke, what were you most excited to show coach about the state of Indiana? Well, in the interview we drove out to the motor speed play. That was cool. Um, did you go in? No. So it was during, uh, it was during practice and, um, so, you know, if, if hiring people was perfect, right? No, nobody would ever, um, mess up. So we wanted to spend some time together and, uh, we kinda walked around campus and, Hey, have you, have you ever seen the Indianapolis Motor Speedway? And he said, no. So we, we drove out and just did a lap and, and showed the size and really looking forward to taking my tour Ray. Oh. 'cause you, yeah. You gotta go to the 500. Man. That's, I've heard that a lot. Like a lot, dude. Like, I don't know what's like West Virginia's thing. What do you mean? Like, I don't know, like what would, besides the song, country roads take me home. What is the world Pepperoni rolls? No, like what is the World West Virginia football world like? What is w WVU football would be it. Okay. Because there's no pro sport teams. Yeah, no pro sport, but just in general, like, uh, like Kentucky as like the Derby and we have the 500 and the, the The Greenbrier. What's The Greenbrier? It's like a really nice resort out there. Yeah. Yeah. The 500 changes your perspective on just like the size of what human beings can create. Like 300,000 people come together. There's like, and like usually the most ultra wealthy people, you see people that don't have two nickels to rub together drinking bush light and turn three man, and it's. Like a microcosm of the world and it just makes you have like a, I don't know, it makes me have a fond appreciation for just the state of Indiana. I'm not like a huge racing fan, but like, I love it. It's just like a crazy experience. I dunno. How do you describe it, Luke? Oh, I love racing. I love any car. And, and I always tell people this, this, this story. My, my wife who's from Ripley County, I, I took her to her first 500 and, and that whole week is a big week for us, right? So we're, we're going out, we're going to events, we're doing different things. Like it's all in, and we may have had too much fun on the night before the race and, and you know, I was like this debate, like, do you want to, she didn't really want to go. And I was like, no, you gotta go. Like, this is our thing. And we get there and I tell people the first 10 laps in the last 10 laps at a 500 are the coolest sporting event in the world. And four laps in, she looks over and she goes, I don't ever wanna miss a race again. And like, loves it. And it's like the, it is like the moment when you, like from back home again in Indiana, it's a, god bless America to all those moments. Like there is, um, it's part of the community. Yeah. And like if I, if you don't grow up, so, um, obviously your wife's from like southeastern Indiana. If you don't grow up, I think. In race culture or in Indianapolis. Like I grew up in northern Indiana. I had no idea. I came to my first one my sophomore year of college and I made the same. I'm never missing one ever again. It's so cool. And I feel like when you ex, when you, um, discover it as an adult, you have this newfound appreciation for it. Like, this is just so cool and I don't know how to explain it, but you gotta go. Um, you, you're gonna love it. 'cause they go fast. Yeah. Love it. Very fast. Lots of speed. We come to the end of the show where we talk about a few more rapid fire questions and some Indiana stuff. Luke, I'm gonna start with you. This question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homeisjchart.com. My question for you, Luke, why do you call Indiana home? Yeah, it's, uh, it's been a, it's a special place to me, special place to my wife. Uh, I think there are things here. That you can do, that you can't do anywhere else. We, we've been given opportunities to, to leave Indiana. Um, but, you know, I was, I was 27 years old helping to run a, um, a, a multi-billion dollar agency. I was 30 years old working for the governor and, you know, in my, my late thirties, um, uh, doing a job like Indiana rewards people who works. And, um, you know, that's, that's the main reason why we continue to stay here. I love that you said Indiana has stuff that you can't get anywhere else. A lot of times, like we're close to everything else and it's like, I don't, being having a good airport where you could leave is not something we should be like, I love the airport. It's so great. If people want to go on vacation or whatever, that's awesome. But we should not be, marketing is like Yeah, we're close to everything else you actually wanna do. No, we are a place that has things that you want to do. We should be telling people it's easy to come here. Yeah, it is. You're in, they just opened a one way from Nashville to Indianapolis. You can get on that nonstop flight. Southwest right here to Indianapolis. There you go. Bang. I love it. Alright, uh, coach, talk to me about what we can expect at the new stadium that's gonna open. Short short name. The Jim. The Jim. James T. Morris Arena. Did you come up with, that's clever by the way. It wasn't, unfortunately it wasn't. Okay. That's clever. And I would take credit if I did not wait. The, The Jim with a j. Yeah, so, so it's named after, so James T. Morris who, uh, Jim Morris, it's named after him. Mr. Morris, as I called him, you know, his name was, he went by Jim, so called it the, the, we're gonna call it the Jim, you enlightened me about who Jim Morris was. Mm-hmm. Um, and the profound impact he had on the city of Indianapolis. If I could get you, give me a, a little bit of a dive into who Jim Morris was and why he is, uh, an icon when he comes to all things Indianapolis and sports. Yeah. You know, if, if there was a Mount Rushmore of Indiana. Um, Mr. Morris would be at the top. You know, he actually, Jake Query asked me one time who, who if you could change out who would be on the top of Monument Circle, um, who would you put up there? And, you know, between Richard Lugar and, and Jim Morris would be the two. And, and neither of em want that. Right. That's, that's why they were so great. But, um, you know, we don't have, uh, Michael A. Carroll Stadium. We don't have the IU Natatorium, we don't have the, the Colts. We probably don't have the Pacers if it's not for Jim Morris. Um, and, and that's just the stuff he did on the, on the, um, sports side. You know, he was in charge of the U.N. World Food Programme, um, you know, did a lot of stuff with the water utility. Was, was, uh, mayor Lure at the time, um, chief of staff that helped develop what became Indianapolis. I mean, there is not one person who's done more for Indiana or Indianapolis than, than Jim Morris. And, and there's not somebody, and he wouldn't want credit for it. If he were still around. He would not want that credit for it. But, you know, when Mr. Morris called you. Um, you, you, you always took a second to look at it 'cause you knew you were getting ready to say yes to whatever the question was. And, um, you know, I tell people, Nate, one of my, um, you know, you talk about quintessential Indiana Indianapolis moments. So I got this job and Mr. Morris is actually the first person I called before I applied. So I, I called him and I say, Mr. Morris, um, I wanna apply for this job, but I only wanna do it if you're supportive of me doing it. And, and he paused and I'm sure he paused for three seconds. It felt like three minutes. And, and he goes, of course I support you, Luke. You, you should go do it. I get a letter from him my first day on the job, and then a week later I get an email from his assistant that said, Mr. Morris wants to show, throw you a reception, um, at Gainbridge Fieldhouse. And it was a night where he would, he would bring the leaders. He, he did this for everybody. He'd bring, did, did it for a lot of people. He'd bring leaders together at Gainbridge Fieldhouse and you would get up in and just kind of a welcome party. That was always, uh, really fun. And I tell people every day, Nate, I get to walk in the shadow greatness on our campus from, from Mike Carroll, uh, to Richard Lugar, to now Jim Morris. And, you know, that's the pride I have in this role is I want to continue to carry on the things they've done. And, you know, there's Dave Neff and, and a lot of other people around the city have, have, were lucky enough to have the, the, the guiding hand of Jim Morris. And, you know, I think it's part of my role as I, as I get older to, to help carry on that vision. Did you get to learn about who Jim Morris was? And just, just briefly, um. Luke is, is kind enough to, to speak with recruits, um, when we bring them in. And, you know, part of the pitch is, is the new arena. I wanna sell that. Like, that's a, that's a great selling point. And, and yeah. Um, he does a great job selling it. And, and he talks about Mr. Morris, you know, during his little presentation. Yeah. From the, uh, from the in arena, uh, experience. What can fans expect? Uh, because it opens 2027, knock on wood. October of, uh, 26. 26. Yeah. All right. What, so next season. Next season, what can we expect, uh, from the arena, from The Jim next season? Yeah. I think, you know, for us as a team, first of all, we're gonna have good kids in there. Like guys that look, if we gotta be around 'em, we might as well like 'em, right? So we're gonna, we're gonna have really good kids and, and guys that, you know, people wanna cheer for. And then number two. You know, we're gonna put a product on the floor that's gonna stay different and it's gonna be improved, uh, from year one to year two. And, and you know, as far as the atmosphere, I think it's the perfect size arena. I, I think you go to some of these venues and it's, they're way too big. You know, you're sitting with 2000 people in there and, and it feels empty. Yeah. This is a little over 4,000 if Yep. A little over 4,000 as far as the capacity. And I think it's a perfect size arena for our program. And, and, you know, we want to get it to where we're consistently getting three to 4,000 people in the arena. Yeah. Not, not because it's just, it's a new arena, but because. We're a good basketball team and we're playing meaningful games throughout the season. And, and that to me is, is my vision. And obviously a lot of work has to go into that from our end, but it's something that I think it's attainable. Yeah. To get done. I have one more of my lightning round questions for both of you to answer, and then we have our same three questions that we round out, which will be very fun because Yes, it will coaches only six, six months into the gig. Oh boy. Um, this question is more, we have a lot of parents that, um, that listen to the show. People with maybe young kids or, you know, elementary age. There's never been more stuff to do from drama to music to TikTok to the there. There's just Fortnite. There's a million things that kids could be doing. What's the sell to get your kid involved in sports? When I hire people, I, I hire athletes, right? I mean, I want somebody who, who's been through the grind that gets it, who understands, you know, the, at the end of the day, we're here to work, right? And we're here to get this done. Um, it teaches you a lot. Um, and, you know, teaches discipline teaches how to win and lose. It teaches you how to deal with, with adversity. But, you know, it's funny, I, I, and it's, it's. It's funny because of who said it. So I, I listened to an interview, this is probably 10 or 12 years ago now. Rick New Heisel, the old, uh, coach of, of UCLA who's now his son's, the offensive coordinator. There, there was a conversation about should kids specialize? Right? Should a kid play just football or should they play just baseball or just basketball, whatever it may be. And Rick knew Heel said he only recruits kids that play every sport because when they get done playing sports, 'cause most kids aren't gonna go play professionally, he doesn't want his son to, to look like he's never thrown a baseball or never thrown a football. And then everybody would make fun of him from doing those different things. So he wanted to have the most well-rounded kid. Yeah. He wanted him to play everything and learn how to do those different things and, and, you know, look, sports, I'm not here. Uh, if, if it wasn't for Mike Leonard and Franklin College, I'm, I am in the, in the football team. I'm, I'm not where I am today. Um, and, you know, I will be forever indebted for what sports has given to me. Yeah. You know, for me, Nate, it, there's nothing better than being on a team like competing, trying to win. And I've had a lot of good memories in terms of sports and. Big wins at the high school level. At the collegiate level. But some of my best memories are when I was a kid playing sports. Like whether it's, and it's funny, like my brothers and I would play one-on-one every day in the summer. We'd play one-on-one basketball every single day. And it got to be so competitive that my dad had to come out and we weren't allowed to play unless he was a referee. Like we'd end up fighting each other and like, that's so awesome. Those are what, that's what I remember that, that kind of stuff. Yeah. And, and being, you know, on a travel soccer team and running track and cross country, like there's nothing better than being on a team. And then on top of that, if you can be on a team and win and that bus ride home, nothing like a bus ride home after a win. Yeah. No better feeling. I do wanna say one more thing about this, about sports in general. Well, every parent thinks their kid is a D-I player. And every kid, if they can't be D-I, they're like, oh, why would I do this? And this is like coming on early, like freshman year if I'm not getting a full ride scholarship to wherever, to, you know.To play even that if I'm not getting a full ride scholarship to play at IU Indianapolis, I'm, why would I even do this? What's the thought process, uh, behind all these athletes that might get to play, either, whether it's through high school or at Division III? Division II NAIA, like you spent 20 years mm-hmm. With around a Division II program. Like what's, what should these kids be thinking and what can parents tell their kids when they're thinking about the recruitment process when they get to be a junior and, you know, Ohio State football's not knocking down their door, trying to give 'em a full ride scholarship. Yeah. Here, here's what I'll say. Like, I was fortunate enough to play at West Liberty and we won a ton of games and had a lot of success. And, um, for me it's every year my teammates and I still get together in Pittsburgh. Like, we don't have to do that. Like, we want to do that. And we we're, we're all, you know, in each other's weddings and we're all the, the godfather godmother of, of each other's kids, like. That's why you play the sport, like the winning and stuff. That's great. That's awesome. That's, that's, that's wonderful. But it's the people and the friendships that you make through these sports. And again, I was a Division II player. I wasn't on a full scholarship, but I wouldn't think about going anywhere else in West Liberty because of the friendships I made and the relationships I made with my teammates. Yeah. You know, fast forward, right? So, you know, they may not get the offer they want their junior year and they may end up at a, at a, you know, D-II or D-III or a small mid-major, their freshman and sophomore year and play really well. Right. Parents need to be a little more vocal and tell their student athletes like, Hey, if you leave, you're gonna lose the two years of camaraderie. Camaraderie you have. Right. Um, and, and I think that's the, that's the one thing I I, like I mentioned, I was at our volleyball tournament this weekend. We have the, the greatest parents on our, our volleyball team, we, I think like seven of 'em are, are head coaches in one way or another. Right. And they're, they're ultra supportive. They, they, uh, you know, they, they, they coach your kids after the games, right? They support 'em during the games. And I think in today's world of college athletics, there's a lot of kids who are looking for the bag, right? And, um, but the reality is, is like, that's gonna come after, right? It's gonna come, you know, you're a, you're the all time assist leader at IU, Indianapolis in volleyball. And, and you go to get your first job and somebody's gonna say, gosh, like, you were, you were really good. Right? And there's gonna be some translation from being successful on the volleyball court or basketball court or whatever, and into business. And, you know, the four years of college is still supposed to be fun. And you're supposed to meet, meet your best friends. I mean, I, I tell people the first day I walked into Franklin, in, in the room, uh, a, a football team over the, over the years, there were eight of the 11 guys in my wedding were in that room at some period of time, right? Um, if I would've left Franklin at any point, that wouldn't have happened. So, you know, I think we need to reinforce, like, let's, let's go through the good times, let's go through the bad times and, and understand what we're getting. That's a great. Bookend there. Final three questions that we have, we ask everyone who comes on the show. First one, Luke, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana? Yeah, it is a place that you can, in downtown Indianapolis, you can go watch a Colts game. You can go over to our Friends of Victory Field. You can, um, come to IU Indianapolis. You can go to a world class zoo, um, and you're gonna get great things and be able to go whenever you want. Um, look, I'm a homer when it comes to Indiana. Um, but you know, I think this, you can, you can do a lot of different things in the state, and your ability to be successful or not successful is solely on you. And I don't think there's a lot of places that, that, that happens. Heck yeah. Coach, you have spent a lot, and I mean, a lot of time in West Virginia, but what's one thing that West Virginia needs to know about Indiana? I think it's a comparison you can make between the two. They're, they're, they're blue collar, like I said, hardworking people and. Kind of echoing what Luke said there. There's, there's something for everybody. You know, if you want rural, uh, you know, hunting, fishing, we've got that here in Indiana. If you want, uh, you know, a big city with, with a lot of things to do, a vibrant city, we've got that as well. So, a little bit of everything, it, it can please a lot of people. And again, just, you know, selfishly and individually, the people here have been really good to me and I'm very appreciative of that. And, um, you know, putting that in, in, into my job. We're gonna make this thing work here and we're gonna get this thing done. Yes, sir. Alright, Luke, here's your chance. There's what's something in Indiana that's not getting enough love? What is a hidden gem In Indiana? Yeah. The, the Heartland Film Festival. Oh. my original college roommate and I, uh, we've gone every year since freshman year of college. Um, and you know, it's, you're starting to see it, um, to, to become more well known, but truly moving, uh, picture right is that, and it's just been great. We love it. Every year we, um, I mean you talk about Indiana, right? You find something, um, uh, to go see about Indiana. This year we saw about Peru and the circus. Um, and just, love the Heartland Film Film Festival and think it's a lot of fun. Wow, I did not see that one. Go. One thing that you gotta learn about Mr. Luke Bosso is that he is a man of many interesting talents. Like, I didn't know that you were a film aficionado. Just like I didn't know he was also a boxing coach. So like for six months he trained me and some of my buddies on his smack in the pads, dude. And he's like, you had worked at a boxing gym before. There's just so many weird but lovable, uh, interests that Mr. Luke has. So, uh, I love that. Alright, coach, this is gonna be a tough one, but you've been here for six months. What's your hidden gem in Indiana? I'm gonna give you two. Is that okay? Yes, sir. Okay. Well, and I haven't even been to one of 'em. I've just researched it all. Oh, just heard about it. Yeah. Okay. So I've got a 2-year-old and a, and a three month old, um, the Children's Museum here in Indianapolis Lake. And I, we were showing my daughter some photos of like, the actual museum, and it looks awesome. Like we're, we're gonna make our, our, our plans to get there. And, um, just the reviews and what, you know, Luke and other people have, have told us. It's, it's something, yeah. As someone who's not, I don't have kids, but like, uh, my friends that have kids come into town, I'm always, we gotta go there. Yeah. And it, it blew me away. I was like, holy smokes, this place rocks. Yeah. And the second one, I'm a pirate fan. Pittsburgh Pirate fan. So the Indianapolis Indians like the, the stadium there. And those games are awesome because, you know, you get good seats and they're good. It's good baseball. So, yeah. I actually did the first pitch out there, how they bounced it. Hey, you bounced it. Yeah. But like, I, I went to the actual mound, like, not the, not. Play the, the real one? No, the real man. I tried the rocket. Like I, I threw gas like as soon as I could. I love that. Yeah. Hey, you know what? That's why you're the basketball coach, I guess. So, uh, finally, this is where you get to share the love, where we get to learn about other Hoosiers that are doing inspiring things. Who's a Hoosier? We need to keep on our radar. Someone who's doing big things. Yeah. Uh, I'm gonna cheat a little bit. I have a couple, but first one is Paul Mullin. Um, he's gonna hate that I'm saying this. He's the managing partner of Lewis And Wilkins law firm. We, we kind of got into the political sphere right around the same time as each other. And now he just worked his way up to being a go-to guy for U.S. senators, for, for members of Congress, all while running a medium-sized law, uh, law firm. Yeah, it's their short name Lewis And Wilkins's Law. Right. So how perfect is that? They literally run the law firm. And then Paul, Paul stepped up as immediately I got the job and became a sponsor, and now he has the Jaguars vanity plate, just a guy who loves being under the radar, but, but more people need to know about him. Uh, the next is, uh, our team at IU Indy. Um, we, we talked about the record breaking, fundraising, the sponsorships, all the different things we're doing to attract people to games. I've set the course, but it's them that, that have gone out and, and worked it, and they're, they're amazing. And, um, we hope you come down to a game and, and see them. And then our 300 student athletes, um, you know, we started a coffee program with, with, with Java House last year, um, where leaders of the community go have coffee with our student athletes and. One of my favorite, uh, programs that we launched, we'll bring it back here soon. And, and I think anytime you meet one of our student athletes, you're gonna walk away with a, with a really fun experience. Yeah. Oh yeah. You're part of the program. I'm part of the Yeah, it's great. I mean, in an hour I learned about, uh, people who come from out, like what we recruited a high school athlete to come to Indianapolis and what their perception was and how they were enjoying it. It's just a good piece. 'cause I will say I feel like, um, a decent chunk of student athletes, whether, whether we like it or not, like, don't come from Indiana. Mm-hmm. Or don't come from Indianapolis. And so hearing their perspective of what they've thought about the city versus what I think about the city is really interesting. Like, they live downtown, they're like right in the midst and the heart of a, the whole thing. I think it's, it's a good perspective for anyone out there. So go be part of that program. Alright coach, get to share the love. Who's someone that you've met that's made a big impact thus far in your journey? Who's a Hoosier? We need to keep on our radar. I wanna give you a two. And, and they, and both of 'em have been great for me. Um, obviously Luke has been great for me and just the transition, making things easier. Helping me meet a lot of people, but two people in our athletic department at Ed Holdaway, is that how you pronounce his last name? Ed Holdaway. Holdaway. Ed Holdaway. Um, just like the jack of all trades. He's the encyclopedia of sports. Like you ask him who won 1963 Indiana High School bat and he would know the answer to it. He, he, he's been great and been great for me and my family. And then Laura Hue, who's in our athletic department too. She was with us, uh, this past trip. And, and, and, um, just someone that again, has helped me transition, you know, into Indianapolis and, and been very good for me and my family and, and certainly appreciate all their friendship. Heck yeah. I love it. Gentlemen, thanks for stopping by. Best of luck the rest of the season. Uh, I know you guys are gonna keep making us proud. Uh, I love it. I love the energy and the passion. Obviously, like we're not, we're gonna get the, you know, the wins and the losses on the right track. Abso and I, I, I'm so bought in. I love it. I think it's so sick and I appreciate the, um, one. The attitudes you guys bring to this. And two, just like, I love people that don't make excuses. Oh, it's this, it's that. It's, it's like, Hey, here's the situation. Here's where we're at and here's what we're gonna do to correct it. Like, I love that. I think that's gonna carry this team where we want it to go. I think it's gonna carry this university where they need to go. I'm really excited. Go Jags. Uh, people wanna find either of you two, or I guess you can't find coach. He's under, you wanna find him. It'll be at the jungle. Saturday nights. Saturday afternoons. Saturday afternoons. Saturday afternoons. Um, Luke, if people wanna connect and if they wanna learn more about the opportunities to support Jags Athletics, how can they do that? Yeah. IUIndyJags.com. Um, uh, I, I'm very active with social media, @boss2356. Um, you know, I'm giving away tickets. I'm getting people involved. LinkedIn, add me, um, actually in your Chick-fil-A episode, I, I added one of the guys. We've, we've gone back and forth, uh. Bro, they rock. Yeah, they, they were awesome. Um, but we'd love to see at the jungle. We gotta get you back to the jungle this year. I'm there. All right, let's do it. Alright boys, appreciate you coming by and we'll talk soon. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind the scenes look at everything we're doing across the state. Make sure you follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hoosier State great. We'll see you next time here on Get IN.