He Started with $400… And Became an NBA Brand | Christian Resiak, Howl + Hide

My guest today is Christian Resiak, and he's the founder of Howl + Hide Supply Co., an Indianapolis based leather goods company that he launched in 2014 after teaching himself leatherwork. And he's originally from Michigan City, Indiana, and he moved to Noblesville in middle school. Graduated from Noblesville High School, had a brief stint at a Purdue University before leaving to pursue opportunities in retail across Illinois.

And the booming metropolis of South Dakota. He then returned to Indianapolis in 2012 to build his own path. What started in his basement has grown into a multifaceted business. Today, Howl + Hide operates three core areas, consumer leather goods, uh, collab, a fast-growing custom corporate product division, and their own manufacturing in-house factory that produces all the goods.

I'm really excited to dive into this staple of Indianapolis. If you've seen them on social media, if you've been in their store, it's incredible. The work that you do is amazing. I'm so excited to hear the story. Christian, welcome to get in.

Thank you, Nate. That was very nice of

you.

Say all those things. Oh, well, hey, it's very nice of you to do all these amazing things.

Of course. Uh, what I, what I'm really curious to dive into one, I have never met someone who grew up. In Michigan City, Indiana. Right. I wanna, I wanna dive in just quickly talk to me about what it was like to grow up in Michigan City. I feel like the state of Indiana has their own preconceived ideas of the region and kinda like the Lake Michigan shoreline, but what was it actually like to be there?

So, you know, it's a crazy place to live and if you think about the shoreline all the way from like East Chicago up to like New Buffalo, um, you know, famously the South Shore Line runs, you know, all the way up to Chicago. Um, you find they're really hardworking towns. Like very, very factory factory. It's like old, old school

steel cities,

right?

Yeah. Huge steel cities. And, you know, if you're in Michigan City, if you're at the public beach, you can see like smokestacks and like, you know, a lot of hard work being done. Um, Michigan City itself is a wild town. It's, you know, been through its ups and downs, but, uh, where I grew up and where my family's from is, uh, Long Beach.

So it's like this, like beautiful. Area of just, it looks like Florida, it looks like Caribbean. It looks like it's, it's

like Chicago summer homes,

right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And when the sun sets, there's nothing better than a Lake Michigan sunset. You can see the skyline of Chicago across the lake and growing up there was just like crazy.

Um, my whole family still lives up there, uh, besides my immediate family, and I think most kids have like this idea of. Growing up and you know, getting your knees dirty and playing outside and all these other things. And I just had, you know, the most beautiful outside experiences living there.

Yeah. And was it like, especially during the summer, was it like Chicago summer, like the, the Chicago, Illinois people coming for the summer and then you're like the local?

Yes. Like was there a clash of heads? Oh, for sure. Did everyone like assimilate?

For sure. I, I mean, I think I was a little too young to like see that divide as much.

Yeah.

But I definitely heard, you know, my dad yelling while he's driving the car, you know, being like these Illinois people coming here and infiltrating, you know?

Yeah, right.

So

nobody based off of that.

Yeah. And it's like, they go, they didn't ever drive. I know. And come down here messing up our traffic and you end up then going from one large body of water on Michigan City down to Morse Reservoir here in Noblesville.

Yeah. My family's always been, my dad was in the Navy.

He's always been a big water guy. Um, it's funny because when we moved here, my dad had a 13 foot. Sailboat that he had, um, up in Michigan City, and he's like, oh, we're gonna move to Morse Reservoir. We'll put this on there. And like within a summer he is like, we're getting the speedboat. We can't, we can't, we can't have the sailboat.

It's not quite sailing, you know, not sailing. I feel like that's, uh, I've been on Lake Maxinkuckee and Culver and they like still sail a bunch there and there's a few pockets of sailing, but it's like, dude, get the pontoon. Yeah. You can crush a couple brews and hang out there for sure. Uh, and so you end up then, I, I do wanna hear this story.

You graduate from Noblesville High School? Yes. And. You end up saying, Hey, college, that's what I'm gonna go do.

So I had worked for, when I was 16, I got hired on at this retailer here in town. They were new to town and, um, I worked them with them, my junior and senior of high

school. What kind of retailer?

Um, it was, I'll say this, it was a skate shop in the mall.

Uh, yeah,

I'll say that. Yeah. Yeah,

yeah.

And you know,

and this is the time that skate shops in the mall were cool.

Oh yeah, for

sure. Like, you wanted to go in there and get the coolest graphic tees or skateboard or like upgrade some wheels and do the whole nine yards.

Yes. And you know, um, I didn't, I would be lying if I said I was a big skateboarder. 'cause I was, and I, I could like snowboard, I could wakeboard if I'm strapped and I can do it if I'm like, hurry of doing it. I can't.

It's kind of crazy.

I know,

like looking through, I remember growing up playing, oh my gosh, Tony Hawks.

Oh yeah. Underground, Tony Hawks, American Wasteland. Yeah. Like all those video games.

Oh

yeah. And then you like, oh, I'm gonna buy a skateboard. And then you get one and you're like,

no,

how do, how do I get it off the ground? Yeah. Like I could never get like an Ollie.

Yeah. I

couldn't work for me.

No. So I worked there.

Um, and I have to say like. Is a big, is a big school. And, um, I loved, I, it's rare for me to say and like my friend grew in my circle. Like I loved high school. I did, uh, I am a very social person, so I was friends with a lot of different type of people in high school. Yeah. Um, I wasn't like just set on one, you know, kind of crew of individuals and also they have a really good communications program as well as art program.

So like I test a lot of the things that I've done now to that time,

which is funny because like rural, like Yeah. You know, at the time Noblesville even like a decade ago was way more rural. Yeah. Tried tractor

to workday.

Yeah. For school day. Yeah. And you think about having a really robust communication and art program.

Yeah.

You're like, oh, that's not maybe like my first thought when I think of, uh, Noblesville High School. Yeah. But that's really cool.

For sure. So my junior and senior year was like this, like I didn't really know what was happening. I just kinda like, was like, okay, there's like more to life than middle of America, I guess.

Um, you know, I just wanted to be like expanded upon, you know, like,

yeah.

We didn't have that many people of color in my high school. It was just like, okay, this is like, and so when I worked for that retailer, I was like, they were, teach me all these different things, you know, like it's a West Coast brand that came out here and that I was just like consumed with different brands and, you know, uh, brand product knowledge.

'cause if I'm gonna be selling these things outta the store, I wanna be able to like, know about that.

Well, and a little bit of that, of what was the secret sauce of the skate culture. Yeah. And the surf culture is like the lifestyle for sure. That these products mean similar to like a Patagonia, right? Yeah.

It's like the lifestyle. It's not just the, the physical product. Like you could pick up a skateboard at Walmart and it would still like, do relatively the same thing.

Yeah.

But like the culture of what wearing these brands met or that getting this specific skateboard or this grip tape or whatever that could be.

Yeah. It was, uh, and it's like individuality, you know, it's like a huge freedom of expression. And after being consumed with that, I was like, oh man, this is so sick. Meanwhile I was like. Very heavy into the arts in high school. And I, that's the route that I thought that I wanted to go. And I applied to art schools and it was just so expensive.

And there's no way that I, you know, I'm on the hook for paying for my college, so I'm like, I'm, I can't go, you know?

Yeah.

To this like,

especially at the time when like the creator economy Yeah. Was not what it is today. And so you're thinking like, hey, even fifty, a hundred seventy five, whatever, thousands and thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars to get like an art degree.

Yeah.

You're like, oh man, I don't know. We, I dunno if people are gonna buy my paintings or whatever

for Yeah.

So you end up going to Purdue.

I was, I'm riddled with A DHD. Yeah. It's still, to this day, it's my superpower. You know, it's like something that I like, you know, lean into heavily, but back then, you know, I was like not good at school.

I just, I think what I chalk it up to being is like, I don't really love rules. I don't really love people telling me what to do. And so when I left high school, I had a terrible GPA, my test scores. Scores were great. I go to West Lafayette and I'm like. So you're meaning to tell me I have to listen to you now.

And it was just like, not okay.

Yeah.

For me. Um, meanwhile I got promoted with that company and I was an assistant manager at the Lafayette Mall,

so Oh, at Tippecanoe Mall.

Oh, yeah.

Okay. So

right next to Spencer's gifts. It was an amazing, it was an amazing time.

Like this, like Tippecanoe Mall Mall. Like the northwest side?

Uh, no.

Or Lafayette, Indiana.

In, in Indiana.

Oh, so you got promoted to Yes. So you show up on college and you have a job

Yes.

With the same company?

Yes.

Oh, amazing. Yes. So you're like, I can keep working here. But I can also, you know, get my degree is the initial plan.

Maybe. Yeah. Maybe go to class.

Yeah.

And you know, I was like, ver their culture was so good and so they were like, do you wanna quit school and be a store manager of this new store?

We're opening in Peoria, Illinois. We're gonna pay you $27,000. And I was like. See ya college. $27,000 Mind you, I'm 18. I'm like, that's the most money I've ever seen in my entire life. And this is also back in like 2008. So it's like, you know, I'm like

27 grand. I mean,

I was like, hell yeah, let's go.

So how, how long into your college career did you make it?

About six months.

Oh, so like a semester?

Yeah.

Okay. You did a semester and then you saw the writing and you're like, and then you see the payday. 27 grand. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, I really might,

it might have been 27 5, it might've been 27 5.

Like, I really wanna expand my horizons. Yes. I'm going to Peoria, Illinois.

Yes.

Yes.

So you take your talents westward to Illinois. Yes.

And I'll never forget, I had, I had every like the store's about to open and I think that I was like, I think that there was somebody else that didn't accept the job, and they were like, yeah, we'll give it to Christian. He's crushing it and is, you know, here with the culture.

So, uh, I'll never forget driving into Peoria and going from like a. Morton over. And you know how you cross the bridge into Peoria and you're just like, oh my God, this is like, 'cause I'm from in Noblesville. We never went downtown when I was a kid. We never came down here. We never really spent time down here.

So like going into Peoria, I was like, this is a metropolis. This is, this is great. Yeah. So I opened this store. I spent two years in Peoria and I, that was my college.

Yeah.

Okay. That, that was like through I, a lot of decisions that I make today. I kind of built that foundation in Peoria.

Okay. Well one, I want to get your perspective of what did your parents say when you dropped outta college after six months?

And we'll start there.

They were pissed of course. You know, like, they were like, oh. So they essentially, like my parents are both, they grew up not wealthy.

Yeah.

You know, and they both busted their butts really, really hard to get what they are today. And so I think for them. They didn't want me to go down a route that, you know, they worked so hard to build this like view of how.

Working hard and you know, this is what success comes of this. So not taking that conventional route. They obviously were supportive of me. I had a job. It wasn't like I was just like leaving to, you know,

go like lay on on the lounge, on the beach and Yeah,

no,

you know, surf

Yeah. On the Illinois River, you know.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, so they were like, cool

with it, but it was non-traditional. Especially like if you think even their parents were probably like lifelong CERs, you know? Yes. Like work at the same job for 50 years, retire

Yes.

And then get your pension.

Yes.

And then like, they have that instilled in them and you know, now even today it's even more like people are take like taking a risk is is definitely a lot more, um, like supported and celebrated.

Yes. Yeah. Than even in the early two thousands for sure. Like, are you crazy? You're gonna drop outta college to go take a manager role for 27 5? Yeah. Like what are you doing?

Yeah. My dad was first generation. His parents are from Poland and they escaped the war. Um, so like. I think by me leaving college, it was like, you know, I think it was expected to fail and I was expected to like move home probably earlier than what I,

yeah.

What I ended up doing.

And so you move out, you're 18. Yeah. Basically, like what would've been your freshman year of college? Yes. You're living in Peoria, Illinois. You're managing a retail store. Yes. Did you have the discipline No. That it took to live on your own?

No.

At and that to run?

Oh, I made, no, absolutely not.

No. And like, you know, I fell really hard in Peoria. I put myself back up in Peoria. But we gotta remember that Peoria is like home a Caterpillar. So it's like blue collar, the max, you know, they're, you had Richard's bar downtown Peoria that was open 24 hours. They'd stopped selling beer at. 4:00 AM and start selling beer at 7:00 AM for the, you know, third shift to come in.

So like some of my employees were laid off from Caterpillar that are now my lifelong friends still to this day that are back with Caterpillar and, you know, doing what they're doing and, you know, living there and just like in the trenches and like seeing that, witnessing that. Yeah. You know, culturally perspective, blue collar perspective.

Was there really a skate culture there?

Yeah, there was a big enough skate culture and just kids go to the mall. Like back then the mall was Rain Supreme, you know, like you get off school, you go to the mall. Um

mm-hmm.

So, and it was also a brand new store, so I was there for two years. I have to say that the first year I had no clue what I was doing, so I ran terrible numbers.

But that year two, I was running up against my own numbers and I absolutely demolished it. So

your own numbers, like when you

Yeah, so whenever you get like a, whenever you're like a store manager for a, you know, a corporate store, they're gonna, if it's a brand new store, never been open again, they're gonna give you a similar store's numbers.

So like, this is your goal, this is this day, this is your goal this day. This is your goal this day. Once you have completed your first 12 months as that open retail store, you can then go against your own numbers. Yeah. So it gives you a little bit more data. So,

and what was the feedback you were getting from up the chain?

Were they, like, what have we done giving this kid this door?

I think that what was really big was that the culture that they provided out of the gate was like, work really hard. Make it your own, develop your teams. And so, like, they had a lot of literature. They, we went on, you know, the company would send us places all the time for, you know, extended education.

It was like, I felt very, very supported there. Yeah. And you were successful with that company. If you latched onto that, if you like emulated, you know, their culture. So I was like so deep into that. So then they were like, you know, we have this other opportunity, it's in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. It's a surprisingly a huge volume store.

Take that, um, on the pathway to, you know, multi-store. You know, management,

so you get again promoted.

Yeah.

Uh, and at this point had, had you kind of like proven a little something to yourself like, Hey, I have a future in retail. I have a, like, I can do this.

Yeah. I understood it from an early age. Mind you, I'd been with them since I was 16.

So even the way that they merchandise their stores, it was like you bump into things, you know, and that bumping into things is. Psychology of retail sales, you wanna bump into it because they want you to touch it, they want you to feel it, they want you to see it. Right. So understanding that and understanding really big, big on product knowledge.

Like

it's that well thought out.

Oh yeah.

Like from where you're standing. Oh yeah. And what you're gonna bump

into like a, like for me, like you always want to, when you're setting up a retail store, you always wanna think about, you know, how people are in there peak season. Are they wearing jackets? Can they fit through here?

You know, you have to think about every which thing, but you also have to think about like a DA can somebody in a wheelchair get through here and kind of like what their mentality was. We'll move any, anything for somebody in a wheelchair, you know, like let's load it up. And they like loaded up these stores with just like tons of product.

Yeah.

And it was merchandised as outfits together. So I was like, you know, subconsciously like consuming all of this knowledge about like how to set up a retail store and also how to set up like a retail store that's has carries other people's brands.

Yeah. And as someone that you know has a DHD. Was it easy for you to learn all of these things?

Or was that a challenge?

They gave us, they gave us a really good structure where it was like, you know, you'd have different certifications, like if you wanted to sell skate, right? You would have to take this like class that you do on your own. That is essentially like everything about how to build a skateboard in the, you know, optimal way for a 12-year-old that's super excited.

So in order to, you know, work that section of the store, you had to like know how to set up a skateboard so you had to do all these courses and whatnot. So the structure there was really what helped me a lot.

Well, and I, if you think about growing up in Noblesville, like the path for you was kinda laid out, like finish school, get a stable job.

Like that's what you should do. What was the thing that flipped your switch that made you take the risk to go to Peoria and then eventually South Dakota

Noble was art program. Like, truthfully. 'cause like, I've always been artistic. I've always like, you know, never in a 3D sense, always in like, you know, painting or drawing and.

It was really when I was entering my senior year that like, oh, you could take an independent studies and work on your portfolio in high school to, to then submit to colleges. So I think at that point it was like, that's not necessarily the path I want to take, you know? Um, I don't want to go in a traditional sense now.

When I did go, it was like, it was validating that that's not where I wanted to.

Yeah, because you end up still going and trying it out and it was like, okay, I'm validating the fact that I do not, I'm not built for this path.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. So you end up taking the next job. You are out in

Sioux Falls,

South Dakota.

Yeah. And it was crazy 'cause I was like, oh man, it's the biggest city in South Dakota's be awesome. And there's more people in downtown Indianapolis than there is in the entire state of South Dakota.

Oh boy. Yeah. Culture

shock.

Yeah,

culture shock. Culture

shock. Huge. Wow.

Going from Indianapolis to then Peoria, which is like, you know, a little rough around the edges.

And then going to like Sioux Falls where it's just like, oh, there's like not the only culture that there is like native culture. And then I like learned about native culture and I was like, oh my God, this is like. My mind is exploding again, being from a smaller town in Indiana, like we are not exposed to many things.

You know, we're not exposed to native art, we're not exposed to native music, we're not exposed to like Native Americans whatsoever. So being out there, I was like blown away. And I was only out there for two years, but still, it was like,

okay, huge. But at the end of that, you're basically out as like a full college sense, right?

Four years, like you've done four years in retail. Uhhuh managing, well, one, starting a store from scratch. Mm-hmm. And then two, uh, managing a high volume store. Yeah. Yeah. And you were on pathway to go into like management,

right? Yeah. Like, like deep into it. And that company, I will sing its praises all the time about the pathway that they, you know, teach their employees.

Like, it is incredible. Like, I feel like I did not lose out on college because they taught me so much. I just saw that my place in the world and their place in the world, it was just like I was a number. CR 0 5 6 2. That was my little code I put in my thing. Like I was just in number, you know? Yeah. And then it was like, not necessarily wanted what I wanted to do.

I wouldn't wanna be in Sioux Falls. I took the Sioux Falls job because you know, they always tell you like, if there's an opportunity that comes up, take it. 'cause you don't know when the next one's gonna be. So I took it and it was just like, not necessarily the path that, you know, I don't regret doing it.

Yeah.

Um,

well, and the thing for them is like, they need good people, but they need lots of good people. Lots that like drink the Kool-Aid Yes. And are part of this culture and will distill that down to their employees.

Yeah.

And like it is a mirror of like, and when you start something from scratch, it's like you're building the blueprint and then when you get to that point and you're opening new stores in high volume and the whole Yeah.

It's like, just do the blueprint

for sure. Like, and when I was there, like two classes before me of like employees were around before the company went public, and then when the company went public, they all got. Fat paychecks. 'cause they all had options, you know? So then we're coming in and we're like, you know, we don't have those same resources.

So it was a big divide within the types of employees that, that were there.

Yeah.

Um, so at that time I was like, you know, I had visited Indianapolis, I'd come back here, obviously I'd visit my parents and stuff and ran into a few buddies and, and I was like, Mandy's pretty pop. And you know, like, like I said, I, you know, going to Nobles wide, we didn't really go downtown very often.

So I go back to South Dakota and that I was here for like Christmas and then I decided like, yo, I'm gonna pack up and I'm gonna, I'm gonna move back to Indiana. So in February of 2012, I moved back to Indiana. I'll never forget 'cause. I was loading up my U-Haul and it was negative 14 degrees in South Dakota and the windshield was negative 45.

And I was like, this is, I'm so glad to be outta here. It's too cold.

That's like, that's making Indiana look like a tropical vacation.

Oh, oh yeah. And then when I moved back here, we had like that polar vortex and I was like, in a t-shirt. I was like, this is easy.

Yeah, there you go. It's like it's only zero.

Yeah,

we're

fine. Yeah.

Yeah, we're fine. We're fine.

What did you move back to Indiana to pursue?

I had gotten a job 'cause I, you know, that's like one thing I can never like move somewhere and like not have anything to do. Like I always had to have a job. Um, and I ended up getting a job and it was so funny because I'm a pretty tattooed individual.

I have been for years. And, uh, you know, I did my interview in South Dakota with like a button up and like, you know, I think it was on Skype then we didn't necessarily have FaceTime and it was with Verizon, um, wireless to do some like B2B sales. So I moved to Indianapolis. With the intent. I mean, I was gonna work for Verizon.

Um, I moved in with my folks for a couple weeks and then it was like, you know, moving in with your parents is like a little rough, but it was allowed me enough time to like find a spot. Uh, my first house was a rental. It was a teeny little duplex. It was, uh, 11th and rule. And back in 2012, 11th rule was, I mean, you know, I didn't really know moving back here, like what the hotspots were or anything like that.

So it was, while moving back here and having that. But I worked for Verizon for little, I

You say that's like, is that like on the near East side?

Uh, yeah. It's, it, it used to be pretty rough and now it's like beautiful. It's like the Brookside Park area.

Yeah. Um, okay. Yeah, so

it's a little rough back then.

Um, I worked for Verizon for only about six months, and then I got, I got, uh, headhunted and I started with Angie's List.

Oh.

So I was with Angie's List.

Headhunted.

Yeah. So

it has to feel pretty good.

It wa It did, um, because it was like, uh, where I was working with Verizon was up in Carmel. I lived downtown.

I was like, you know, that's a, you know, commute sucks. I also like being. From Hamilton County, I wanted to like not necessarily be

Yeah.

Stuck in Hamilton County.

Was it? Uh, this would've been decent in the ha like this was like kind of Angie's was pretty big. Probably going public at that point.

Yeah. So I got, but I did not know.

So when I got, they were like, yo, this is how much money you're gonna make. And I was making great money at Verizon at that time. And you know, they were like, this is how much money you're gonna make. And I was like, heck yeah. Why? Why wouldn't I do that? Well, it was only like the top 3% of, and I was on member sales.

So literally I'm in a call center and I'm the guy that does not like to be put in a box at all. You know, I'm gonna call center with my headset on and it's people that are calling like, you know, my tire flat flattened, are you the tire shop? And I'd be like, no, I'm not the tire shop. But if you gimme 10 bucks, I'll give you a list of 10 fire tire shops that you need.

So it was a wild industry to be in.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's really interesting to hear the whole journey of Angie's List. Mm-hmm. Because it started off amazing, amazing, you know, Angie Hicks, she had her curated list. Yeah. People

call

in Bill was, you know, doing a lot with property management over there and, and

yeah.

Revitalizing that East Washington corridor was huge.

Yeah. Like Elevator hill, that whole spot. It's beautiful actually. Uh, yeah, I, I was a part of, or fellowship. Yeah. So I got like, plugged in with, you know, like Mike Rutz. Yeah. And, um, and Ed and the whole crew over there. And then, you know, things change and you have to start like, figuring out how to monetize.

And for sure people are less willing to become members. So then you're charging contractors. Yeah. And like the whole thing gets really, really big and then they end up selling to HomeAdvisor. Yeah. How long did you stay with Angie's List?

So I started in the member sales division, and then the, my favorite job there was, what I did most of the time was I did complete resolution.

So essentially it was mediation. So if a service provider didn't like a member, I would be like. You know, that member sucks. If the member was like, I don't like that service provider, I'd be like, that service provider sucks. Just don't sue each other. Like that was like the big thing. Yeah. So I did that.

What a while. What a while. You're just getting the tea from both, you're like, oh yeah,

pretty much.

Preach. Come on.

Pretty much. Yep. And so I was in that department for like a year. I was in member sales for about a year, and it was October of 2014 when I fell into leather work. I was still working at Angie's List.

Okay, well how do you just fall into leather work?

So I was at the mall.

He's at the mall where all great, you know, great stories start.

I know. And, uh, I'll never forget, this is probably in like September of 2014. I'm in the mall. I'm not Madewell. Everyone knows the store Madewell and they're, you know, always been known for their leather tote bags.

Like that's a big staple of, you know, what women, women were buying and. I'm walking throughout the store and I see like the bottom pleat of the tote bag. Like you can see that the stitches are stretching and like you can see like, that's probably not supposed to look like that. And at that point I was like, I bet I can make that.

So you see stitches stretching?

Yes.

Okay. Not supposed to

look like that. It just didn't look like a $300 bag. It just didn't look like, I was like, there's no way that this can be $300.

Okay.

That's like literally the thought that I had. And then literally the next day I went to, um, Goodwill and I bought like leather coats and I, yeah,

that's where I would find good leather jacket.

Like somewhere like on the north side of Indianapolis, you're like, ah, yeah. Someone's members only jacket.

Yeah. Yeah. And I would like take these leather jackets. I was, I owned a house in Irvington, um, at that point, and I was in my basement and I was like literally just like cutting out this leather jacket.

I was teaching myself how to hand sew and, you know, I was gathering leather jackets from like family members and whatnot. And this is only like the span of like. A couple weeks of like obsessing over it.

Like YouTube?

No, I read old Al Stohlman books from the 1970s

Stop. Yeah. Not even YouTube

University.

No, no. I never You were reading. Never. Yeah. Who's Al Stohlman? So back in the seventies there was this resurgence of leather work and you know, you can think of like country bumpkins that are like tooling leather. And, and Al Stohlman used to hand draw these magazines and it would have, you know, how to do a buck stitch, how to do, you know, floral tooling, how to do this.

And it was very, very western esque, right. But saddle stitching where, you know, you use two needles in one thread and you go back and forth, you know, that's a very traditional way. So that's kind of how I fell into it. And I kind of like was obsessed over it and I was like reading these Al Stohlman books and it was just like trial and error.

What was the first thing you made

a wallet and it is pretty terrible. You

started on a wallet?

Yeah. And it was a little, little wallet with a, it looked like a little envelope and it was made outta leather jacket like a. Do

you still have it?

I, I bet my mom does.

So you make this first wallet? Mm-hmm. And are you proud of this, or are you like, holy smokes, this thing sucks.

I was pretty much like, this thing sucks. Okay. And then it was like, I've always wanted to, I've always been like, if you're gonna jump in, just jump in. And I never necessarily want, wanted to make like wallets. That wasn't my thing. I, I was never like, I just wanna make wallets. It was like very much bags, wanted to

make bags.

Bags. So then I made my first bag and it was all hand sewn.

Like a gimme, like a rough size.

Well, the first one I made was like a little tote, so it was like a little like record tote, you know? Okay. And then, um, they're the easiest thing to get into. The hardest thing to perfect because it's so simple. But proportions are.

Very much into play on how that product looks. So,

and is it all just trial and error? Like trial and error, and then you, you make this and you show it to someone and they're like, I like that, or I hate that.

Yeah, I put four, I spent $400 on my credit card and I bought two pieces of leather and I went to Tandy Leather.

Oh,

you got out of the Goodwill, the, the reclaimed stuff.

Yep. And I took, I took a chance, I took a $400 chance and I go to the Tandy Leather on the west side. And, um, which Tandy's, you know, a very large, um, company that, this

It's like the Michaels of leather work, right? Yes. It's like you go in and you can, they have a thousand different, uh, colors and shapes and all the stuff, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Um, and I buy two pieces of leather. This is prob and this is probably in like January or November, probably November and then December. So I'm

size scale, like how big is the leather we're talking

about? So leather is not like, uh, canvas because you can't measure it in yard because it's a natural piece of leather, right?

So it's like, it, it looks natural. So. The way that it is, is you can buy leather in a full hide. So normally, normally when you see a cow hide rug, that's a full cow, and the center of it is like the spine, right? Typically when we're buying leather, if it's a really thin way, it's like upholstery, leather, you can get it in that full hide.

But what we do, since it's a little bit thicker, they split it into sides. So that ridge of the back, they split down, you get one half of it.

Okay.

So it's roughly 25 square feet.

I got you. So you bought $400 worth of,

which was one hide, essentially? One. 'cause I was two sides, right? Two,

okay. Yeah. And

I started on Etsy and I was doing Instagram a little bit and,

and, and was it bags?

Yeah.

The first thing that you were really selling was bags.

Yes.

And you perfected, or like maybe, I don't wanna say perfected, but you got to a point that you could sell it within a few months of,

have a book. I need to, I need to have a card out there. Something that's like, Hey, I'm sorry that you bought this so early on.

If you wanna like, have something new, you can, you know, because like back then it was like, for sure I was just like putting it on Etsy. I, I'd make a bag, I'd sell a bag, I'd take that money and buy more leather.

Okay. And like how much time were you investing into each of those original bags?

Quite a bit.

Um, but then I got, you know, after obsessing over it for the first three years, I hand sewed everything. So I didn't have any sewing machines for the first three years and

everything was insane. And how, like volume wise, how many, like from the first month, what did you do the first month on Etsy?

I have no idea.

Like, uh, but sold a few of them.

A few of them? Yeah, probably. Probably. I probably did like $2,000.

Okay, so you think maybe like five or 10 bags? Yeah. I don't know what a bag is, maybe. Yeah, something like that. Maybe. And but how did it feel when the first person you didn't know purchased something from you on the internet?

I mean, it was amazing. It was like this feeling of like, oh, this person wants, you know,

do you remember where you shipped it? Like you can't forget the first you're shipping a product somewhere to a person. I think might been

in Virginia.

Like somebody in Virginia.

I

think it was like somebody in Virginia,

like Sally in Virginia sees your bag on the internet.

Did you have to like, try to take good product pictures and like do the whole thing?

Everything was on my phone back then, you know, and it wasn't necessarily, you know. Full product pictures that it was like, you know, very nice, white, white backdrop, you know, heavily saturated or heavily washed out. So it was all like very rogue, very grassroots, very like put it up there.

Were you spending more time learning the craft of leather work or more time learning how to build an e-commerce business?

It's the 80 20, it's the 80 20 effect. It's like literally the mindset of like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do like, 80% of my mindset is going to be how I can scale this business. 20% is on the craft, and then I just work on overtime on the craft, you know?

Yeah. So there's like no, no rest for the wicked whatsoever.

Yeah.

So I always had this coming from like a branded retail element. I, I always knew like, I, I wanna be a brand, you know, like. That's what I wanna do. I originally thought like leaving my retail realm. I thought I wanted to do, like, I thought I wanted to be like a rep.

Like I thought I wanted to like, you know, rep for Oakley or rep for, you know, vans and like go to small retail shops and try to like sell them vans. You know, like that's where the route route I thought I was gonna go. Yeah. Like that's where,

that's like a pretty decent corporate gig. Yeah. You're like going in, you're like, Hey, you know, these are the new Oakley releases this year.

Yes. Like carry them in your Yes. Sort of shopper in your whatever.

Yeah. That's where I thought I was gonna be. So that mindset kind of was like, oh, cool. Like I can do that myself. So then it was like 2015, January started the brand, incorporated everything. Like we're live,

I wanna say like, okay. Thinking that, of starting from starting a brand, meaning like there's two sides, right?

Mm-hmm. Brand would be, you sell to retail stores across the country. Yes. Like your bag could be. In the mall at a skate shop or wherever. Yes. Versus having a retailer would be, you're getting called on by the, all the brands and your job is to get patrons in through the door.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

So in doing this, I wanted to do both.

I wanted to sell to consumer, but I also knew that, in my mind at that time was like, in order to scale this, I need to be in every retailer that I can be in. Yeah. That was like the idea at first. Um, so in, yeah, in January of 2015, I started like the actual business. I, I locked myself in a room and I built a Big Cartel website, you know, and like.

It's like We're not on Etsy anymore. This is, this is my brand now.

Yeah.

So, uh,

was the, was the original name

Hallen Hy? The

original name was Howl and Hide Yeah.

Where'd that come from?

So my, I, my beloved, she's since passed, her name was Alice. Um, she was a, uh, Husky, Malamute Mix and I got her in Lafayette. I was visiting, I was living in Peoria.

I was visiting a friend in Lafayette and this dude was at a coffee shop downtown. This guy's walking this like four month old little husk. And I was like, your dog's so cute. And he is like, she was just dropped off at the shelter. And I was like, I'll be right up there. I was not prepared for her. I was not like she taught, she learned from me and I learned from her and we moved all around together.

So she lived for 15 years and she, you know, like most huskies she howls nonstop. So that's kind of where, and Hide is a play on, you know, we, we use leather hides.

Yeah.

So that's kind of how it evolved. And, um, so she lived long enough to see the new store. So she saw the new store and then she passed at, uh, when she was 15.

So. That's where the name came from.

Yeah. Okay. So it's January of 2015.

2015. Hy Supply Co. LLC.

Did you leave the LLC on, like on,

we're a corporation now.

Yeah,

so,

well, it's like, I feel like a lot of times, like when it's your first business Oh yeah. Like on the sign or whatever, you're like, so and so, so and so LLC.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, then you realize, wait, that doesn't sound that cool. No. Like, you probably need to drop the LLC

well taxes and you know, payroll and things like that. I'm like, LLL C is not necessarily in your favor all the time.

Yeah. All right. So you launch the website. Yes. And so you're no longer selling on Etsy?

No.

And at the point in January of 2015, are you doing decent volume?

No.

Are you still working at Angie's List?

Yes.

Okay. Um, and this is like a, this is an all website that you're shipping stuff outta your basement?

Yes.

Okay, good.

Um, me, very soon into 20, I think it was like just getting to be like nice outside.

So it was probably like March, probably like March of 2015. My boss is like, you probably shouldn't work here anymore. And I'm like. Why is that? And she's like, well, I've seen your, uh, your call logs and your productivity and you're just working on this website the whole time. And so I was like, at work, at age, let's work on my website, which probably shouldn't have been doing.

Yeah.

At that point it was like, okay, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do this full time.

Wait, so three months into starting this business, your boss comes to you and says, Christian, yes. We gotta talk, man. Like, you know, you're supposed to be doing these calls and whatever, but you're building this website.

Yes. Uh, what's, what's the deal? And like, how do you respond to that?

I, I was like, I think you're right. I don't think I should work here anymore. And then I just,

and that was the end.

That was the end.

You packed up your stuff and

so, yeah.

Okay, so you go home, you're like, wow, I no longer have a job. I am a business owner of this leather goods company.

Uhhuh, where do you, what

do you The story gets a little crazier too. 'cause I, that night I go to Jockamo in Irvington for pizza. 'cause what else are you gonna do when you quit your full-time job to do something that you have no clue what you're doing? Go grab pizza and beer. And literally we're sitting, uh, at this table and I'm with a bunch of friends and one of my friends knew this other dude that was working there.

And I was just like, yo, I quit my full-time job. Do you guys need like a bartender or somebody that can like run food or something? 'cause I needed to do something. So he hired me. So I was able to work at Jockamo and it was, I started in the Irvington location and then I moved over to the, uh, Lawrence location when they opened that up.

And they allowed me to work Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So I was making enough bartending at Jockamo in Lawrence Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

So then you'd have four days to work on Howl + Hide.

Yeah. So meanwhile, the, so this is like in March, right? This happened so fast because then probably May PATTERN Magazine in town.

Yeah.

Uh, Paulina reaches out to me and she's like, Hey, the folks at Riley Area Development Corporation, um, which is the building where Yats is on Mass Ave, they are wanting to start this coworking space called Ruckus. And that was going to live in CCIC, now Factory Arts District. And the idea was to have a, you know, creative makerspace essentially.

So it's not necessarily a coworking space, but like a makerspace Hammers are hitting, you know, people are making things, they're trying to get the funding to do so, so they wanted to build this like retail store and makerspace on Mass Ave to kind of show individuals that this idea could work. So they were like, do join, want in?

And I was like, I would love to be in. And,

and like, was it like a you have to pay rent?

No. So they, they, they allowed us to free space right on Mass Ave. And it's literally like, um. Like WDRFA, where they're at now. That was like the old retail store. And then right next to that was the, the Makerspace.

Right. Gotcha. Yeah. So it was myself, it was Jerry Lee, uh, from Hoosier Built who has his, uh,

the Post Malone collection, right.

Yeah. On, so I've known him for a long, long, long time. And so it was me, him, a company that, um, is no longer around called Yonder Bound.

Yeah.

And they made like notebooks, like field notebooks, but they made them in-house.

So it was the three of us that were like, we had access to this space right on Mass Ave. They could bring in their investors and be like, this is what we want to do on a scale of like, you know, 50 other individuals. I took that opportunity and I was there from like 7:00 AM to 3:00 AM literally Monday through Thursday, like all day.

I was like, if I'm gonna get this space, I'm gonna build, I'm gonna make as much as I can. I'm gonna try to sell it out of this building, but I'm just gonna, so would

you be bringing, like people would walking off the

street, they could walk off the street as, as long as a maker was there, you can open up and they could purchase.

Like if they wanted to purchase something from Jerry Lee and I wasn't there, I couldn't ring that transaction. So I just always like, yo, if I have this opportunity to do this, I'm gonna like. Go all in. So at that time, I also launched a Kickstarter 'cause that was like huge back then, you know? And, uh, we did the Kickstarter video, we did our opening.

We sold, uh, you know, some products outta that space. But it was just me, you know, I was, and I was hand sewing everything. But I really took, I was there for eight months and I took that time to. Really like, refine how I was making my products.

Yeah. And who was the organization that was kind of like co-signing this?

So like writing, like who were, who were the one of the top, so,

uh, Riley Area Development Corporation was writing all the grants and

Yeah.

Um,

which is kind of cool for the state slash the city Yes. To be investing in its creators and makers. Yes. Especially considering that two out of those original for sure, three go on to, you know, do some pretty cool things.

Yeah.

I,

Jesse, Jesse from Rooster Fruits, she was part of it after I left. So Rooster Fruits, still open on Virginia Avenue, so

yeah.

I gotta give her a shot as well because,

well, and I just saw Jerry Lee.

Jerry Lee.

He would just opened something at the

Eiteljorg

At the Eiteljorg. Yeah. Because he was like, he's like post malone's like designer or something.

So what he does is he does, um, like Nudie suits and he does, um, chain stitch embroidery, which is a dying art. It's a beautiful art. Um, I travel all over now and I go and I, you know, I was just in Texas and I, I saw just like the mecca of. You know, all of the things that he's doing. But being here, he's always, he was part of IRT, uh, the theater and, you know, very similar story and, and is built his way up.

And then people just got a hold of him and we're like, yo, you make, you're making killer suits. Can you make me one? So, you know, he, he's just been a cultural icon here.

That's really interesting. Okay. People just got a hold, you're making killer suits. Mm-hmm. Can you make me one? Mm-hmm. How much of success in craftsmanship in the creator economy comes from being excellent marketers versus being an excellent crafts person?

I think it goes hand in hand. And because it's, you know, you see it all the time where you see like artists that become famous after in the afterlife.

Yeah.

And it's because they could not find this. Secret sauce and maintaining both of them and trying to, you know, make a very beautiful product, but also try to like sell yourself and making that product.

Yeah.

Sell that product while you're

making

Well, and like so many people might be, you know, the best woodwork, like the best woodworker is probably somewhere it's someone's grandpa. Yeah. That probably lives for sure. Like off the grid and just makes like the greatest hand, you know, handmade furniture. Yes.

It's like, probably has no idea what Instagram is and post selfies, like hook up his nose on Facebook.

You got the Amish up north.

Yeah. Right. I mean,

they are the

same way when they, when they really handcraft stuff. You know, now that I feel like people have come in and kind of like productize that business a lot, but like, they're not necessarily marketers.

Yeah. So there's like a little piece of, well, if you are the best crafts person, if you, if you make really great. You know, items, it's not a guarantee that you're gonna get discovered. Yeah. And other times people get discovered, even if they're not necessarily the best crafts person. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like those are an interesting, it's an interesting balance to market yourself, but also have the product to back it up.

For sure.

I mean, you've seen my Instagram, I'll do anything to sell a bag, know I'll, I'll jump off the rooftops, I'll scream at the top of my lungs. You know? So you have to have that. Yeah. As part of that sauce, you

know, how were you leveling up your craftsmanship

By just being obsessed with it. Like literally like, 'cause that spot on Mass Ave was just like huge because, you know, the products I was making when I entered that space and the products I that were leaving when I left that space were like way different.

Yeah.

Which just, it's like leather working is very process oriented. Um, it's a really, really therapeutic art form most people don't realize. Like, it, um, helps people spend special needs. It helps with a DHD. It helps really tremendously with individuals. PTSD, because it's process oriented, you can't skip a step.

If you skip a step, your product's not gonna look the same.

Hmm.

So it's like really therapeutic in that realm, and just the more that you're doing it, the better you're gonna get.

Was that good for your A DH

adhd? Yes. Huge. Huge.

Even so there's rules to it

very much. Yeah.

But like, I guess not necessarily someone else imposing those rules.

Yeah. Like you can, like, if you're making like garments and whatnot, like, uh, it's the difference between like draping and tailoring, right? Where like you can drape a dress and have it very, very flowy or you can like, tailor a suit. And in terms of leather work, and the 10 of leather work that I do is I do more like a very traditional, like, tailored approach where it's like very, you know, there's not many flowy things to it, you know?

Yeah. It's a, you know, like our parkway saddlebags, a very rigid saddlebag that take notes from, you know, early coach bags. So it's, it's kind of that approach to it. So the more you do it, the better you're gonna get. Yeah. It's just like. Muscle memory at that point.

So you're on the spot in Mass Ave? Yeah.

For eight months. Eight months. You're still working weekends. Bartend attending, yes. To pay the bills.

Yeah.

And what ends up happening with your spot on Mass Ave?

So I, I was still working to pay the bills, but it's funny because I was like, you know, giving away some shifts. 'cause I was like, Ooh, you know, I don't need to as much.

And then, you know, there was a little disorganization in that space and what was going to happen next.

Because I feel like that the whole point of those incubators is kind of to launch you into something. Yes. Yes. Like you're, you can't sit here and build your business forever paying no rent.

Yeah. And so we were trying to figure out a way that we could, that I could, that I could stay on mass A and it just wasn't necessarily there.

And I ended up, um, finding a great space on State and English. So that was kind of the birth of the standalone Howl + Hide.

Okay. So you end up finding your own mm-hmm. Like a, it's like a retail store slash place that you're going to make your goods out of.

Yes.

But at this point, is it, it's still is your full-time job yet?

Yeah, it's, yeah.

Or are you still

I'm still kind of picking up shifts. Bartending a little bit here and there. Yeah. But it's pretty much my full-time gig.

Okay. Can I, can I ask, what was the rent on your first lease that you signed?

Oh, it was, it was like 900 bucks. Oh yeah.

And you're like thinking to yourself like, oh, I can make 900 bucks.

I can figure out how to make $900 a month to make this all make sense.

Yes. Yes.

So how do you go through a build out

baron? You know, it was not necessarily a build out, it was like one open room that was just like my shop and it was open to the public. So I had some things on the walls, but really it was just like my shop and I was in there for two years in that space.

So it's like a, it's a, a room

Yeah.

Basically where you could work

and you

could also

sell

good data.

Yeah. See it right now, 1656 clubs in there, which is a, a little coffee shop. Nice. So it's nice to see it being utilized again. So yeah, at that point, a lot of things started in that building, you know, open to the public, which was very cool.

We launched, um, we, I started doing like sample sales out of there where it was like. I would make a bunch of products and I would be like, market it as like this is a sample sale. Come buy all my stuff. And that first one, seeing a line out the door was like incredible. And it was again, just myself. So it was like, okay, people are seeing me on Instagram, they're understanding that I'm making these products.

And it was like the glory days of that. Yeah. You know, like people making a product in front of you that you can then buy was like really, really cool.

It's kind of like the farm to table approach, but of like craft goods. Yeah. You're like, Hey, I see you. So like if no one's in the store, you're probably working on something.

Yes, yes. Or maybe sometimes if people are the store,

you're like all the time. Yeah. And I was working all the time, like literally I was in that space from 8:00 AM to, you know, late into the evening.

Do you think that the best craftspeople and business owners have to be obsessed?

Oh, for sure. A hundred percent.

And I think about it all the time. It's funny, my wife is like. What are you, what are you looking at? And I'm just like, in my head thinking about things, you know? So I think that you have to be able to have both of those

that, do you feel like being obsessed with leather work and being obsessed with building this brand, were there other parts of your life that suffered from that?

Oh yeah, for sure. I lost a lot of friends 'cause I was just obsessed, you know? I was like not going out. I was not reaching out to people. I was just like very much like in it. Yeah. But I also started traveling at that time and I started to expose myself more like it's, it's funny because I don't think that the Angie's List deal worked for me because I came off of a company, which is, I was thinking about this last night.

I was, I came off of a company in the mall where I was like a heavy culture, heavy culture, heavy culture. And then when I went to Angie's List, it was heavy culture. Heavy culture. But I was like a wounded bird at that point. And I'm like, I couldn't accept that culture from Angie's List. So I like pushed back on it.

Right?

Yeah.

So at this time I'm like also thinking of like, we need to, I need to potentially like bring somebody out, right? Like I need more help. I wanna scale this, but I wanna do it in a way that. Kind of piggybacks on that culture that I had learned and how I can like expand upon that.

I mean, do you just like put out a wanted ad for leather workers?

Kind of like how do you find, I had somebody that was helping me that was like very much an apprentice and it, but I didn't have the structure back then to like be like, this is your paycheck, you know, this is what this is. So it was tough to do, but you know, I went to my first two trade shows in 2016 that really kind of exposed the brand outside of Indiana.

Which were kind of a pivotal moment for me that then ended up getting the brand into retail stores across the country.

Oh, okay. So

I went

So you set up a booth at a trade show? Yeah. Where other retailers would come? Were it all for leather or what were the

trade shows? No, so the um, first one that I did was kinda an anti-trade show.

It was called Desert. It was called Desert & Denim. And it was in Joshua Tree, California. That's kinda

sick.

It was so sick. And the first year I went was, uh, at the, in Pioneertown in Joshua Tree. And it's essentially like all these big brands that are posted up that like, you know, there's chats, there's discussion, but people can come and buy your products from your booth.

That one was more of a, like, there were retail buyers there, but there was also like consumers there. So it was open to kind of vault, but you're in the likes of like Levi's Red Wing, you know, like those brands are there. And for me to be this dude from Indiana to go there and experience this was huge.

How much was a trade show? Like, was that like a

pretty

decent investment?

Um, yeah. Um, and I took the approach of like, this is my first time away. I went to, I went, I went and I rented a truck and I loaded up my truck and I drove to St. Louis and then I drove like original Route 66 all the way to Joshua Tree.

So I made it a 40 day trip when it was supposed to be just like a little trade show because I then already had the whole collection with me. So I just drove up the coast of California and just sold the retail stores pretty much outta my car and was like, yo, you wanna see my products are really cool. I can bring 'em in, I can like preview all them for you.

Uh, this is our ship date. This is how your minimum order is.

What were you learning about this stuff or were you just making it up?

Pretty much? Making it up. Um, and kind of a little bit based upon like the retail journey that I had. So I took those 40 days and I went on the road and I like really sold the brand.

But more importantly, while I was in Joshua Tree, I met a man by the name of Ethan Wayne, who is John Wayne's son. And he was like, I want, I'm starting this thing called John Wayne Stock & Supply and it's gonna be an online store where we carry products that have the John Wayne like. Quotes and imagery and whatnot, and he's like, I want you to do wallets for us.

And I was like, so sick. So that was the first time I had a corporate contract.

So you get your first corporate contract making John Wayne wallets.

Yes. Yes.

What were the, what was like the first quote that went on 'em,

like, never Drink Alone was one. Um, you know, very much like Main America, dude.

Yeah. We're bird daylight.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Come on. Yeah. I mean, iconic. Yes. If you talk about like leather and just like, yes. Like the original cowboy, right? Yeah. John Wayne was the guy, like absolutely incredible. Yeah. So his son is building this company. Yeah. And you're making wallets. Yes. And does that really start to get you some more notoriety?

A little bit, yeah. Um, and then that trip I met a bunch of people. I met this guy in Joshua Tree who runs a brand in Houston, Texas, and he has a store in Houston, Texas. His name's uh, Travis Weaver, and he owns Manready Mercantile. He, he essentially started hampering candles in his apartment and built his brand and he's huge now.

So I met him out in Joshua Tree and at that time there was a trade show in New York called Liberty Fairs, and that one was closed to the public. You had to have a tax ID to go in there to buy for your, your retail store. And so, uh, Travis was very well connected within that world. And he actually had his own section of this ma I mean, it's at the Javits Center, so it's huge.

He had his own section called, uh, the General Store by Manready Mercantile. So he invited me to go participate, and I had a little booth and I had all of my products, and you only bring one of each product in each color, and you have retailers that come and buy your stuff. And at that point I walked away with like 70 grand worth of purchase orders.

No

way. And I was hand sewing everything. And we only did men's bags at that point, just like really heavy satchels. And it almost put me outta business. I had to go back and be like, okay, I gotta make 70 grand worth of stuff and then ship it by this date that I had already predetermined.

Yeah, I was gonna say how long you get, which like at the moment you're like, oh yeah, we're, oh yeah.

You know, the first order we're we're, we're a month out. Yeah. You know, like, we'll ship in a month or we'll ship in two months. Yeah. And then you start to do that like time and time, and all of a sudden you're like, at your 50th order. Oh yeah. And you're like, we'll, we, we'll, we'll ship in two months. Yeah.

And you're like,

I had to cancel a couple of 'em. I had to like tail between my legs and be like, I can't, this is not something I can do. You know? Um,

and like, and be proud of the quality for sure. Yeah. Right. So you get back to Indy and it's almost like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. He has 70 grand worth of orders.

Yeah. And you're also like, holy shit, we have 70 grand worth of orders.

Yeah. And mind you, the only investment that I have in this business is $400 originally. So I'm, I'm, I don't have any, I mean, really till this day we're, we don't. We don't really carry, you know, much debt. It's, yeah. It's been, it's a tough process to go.

'cause you gotta,

which like, if it was, I mean, like, there's another, there's another thing to be said where it's like you could take 70 grand in purchase orders and probably gone out and raised some funding to like, hire a bunch of people. Yeah. And then like, you're giving up equity in the whole nine yards there.

Yeah. But you're like, you know, we wanna, we wanna bootstrap this business. Yeah, for sure. So you, how do you just start sewing nonstop? Nonstop? Do you get people to help you? Like how do you do that?

No, I, I had to do it all myself at that time. I had a couple, I had, uh, you know, like I said, I had some app apprentice that was helping me a little bit.

And then, you know, I had to back out on some of those contracts and I, you know, some of those, uh, relationships for us to like what we have today. And at one point, you know, at that point it was like the tail end of us being in that building across the street from the first Howl + Hide State in English was, uh, a standalone building.

And it was a like baby supply store. So they was this guy that was doing like, it was actually incredible. He was doing like these reus like reusable diapers, and he himself would go all over the city of Indianapolis and pick up these poopy diapers and wash 'em and then deliver 'em. Bro, in theory, like it's a pretty okay business though.

I mean, you gotta be making some cheddar if you're gonna go and do all that work.

Yeah.

Now sounds a little poopy to me. But

yeah,

he ended up, um, packing up, moving off, uh, that area and this building became available and I was like, okay, that building, this building that I was in was about 800 square feet.

That building's about 1500 square feet. I want that building. So I ended up getting the building across the street and at that point I brought on my first employee.

Okay.

Um,

who, who was the first employee?

Um, her name is Bailey and at the time she was like 22. She was much younger than I was. And a just, she whipped me into shape.

She did such a great job for me. She was like, okay, let's make this a thing. Let's, let's structure this. Let's, like, my mind's kind of in the clouds. 'cause at that point I'm like designing and like. I had her out. She was able to like, you know, facilitate all the admin work and, you know, invoicing and all. So

she's not a craftsperson?

No, no.

She's not sewing. No. She's taking the non sewing tasks off of you.

Yeah, and uh, she was amazing. She, you know, when we were just opening the store we're in now, she actually, her husband, I love him so much. Holton is his name. He got a job during COVID. He like got a, you know, a whale of a job and they moved away to, um, Philly and now she works for like free people.

So she said that she used like a lot of her knowledge that she worked, you know, learned with me and applied it there. And at that time I also brought on, um, actually it was just the start of COVID, um, Sean boy, and he's still with me today.

So you had,

Bailey was, it was me and Bailey. We were like attacking

every, for like a couple years,

probably about a year.

For a year.

Yeah. Then, and then we were also at that time in, you know, probably 15 to 20 retailers around the country. Um, and when you wholesale the retailers, they, they have their minimum order, but they also, you know, they buy that product half off I think. So they have their money to, so if I, you know, if I sell a bag to a consumer for a hundred bucks, I'm gonna sell it to my retailer for $50, so then they can make some money as well.

Yeah.

You're kind of going through that together.

Igar at this timer. You, because this is also the rise of like, get everything manufactured overseas. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, if you're already gonna lose half your margin

Yeah.

And you have all these hours Yeah. Of like hand sewed, hand stitches, like the economics start to become really tough for like per hour invested per bag.

Yeah.

Like how do you make all that work?

Um, we timed ourselves and we also added machinery at that point. So we, uh, three years in the business with hand sewing everything going all over the place. And we only sold men's products at that point. Let me just like preface that. So. Our fourth year, we essentially had moved into that new location where we had just moved from before we opened up our store.

Now I had Bailey, I brought on, um, another guy. Um, he was with me for about a year that was helping me, like produce things and whatnot. Then COVID hit, I felt so bad for all my buddies that were in, like the service industry, and I felt so bad for the individuals that just couldn't, you know, grip on to.

Yeah.

Like if you're a bartender,

you know, it was like heartbreaking for me. You know, my wife's a stylist. She couldn't work. It was like heartbreaking. Mind you, my business had never been, it was just skyrocketing at that point because the people that weren't spending their monies, their money out at bars or restaurants, they were buying bags.

Yeah.

It was crazy. Um,

so like, like, uh, how crazy.

We wanted to do good at that time and we put, um, I started making face masks. We only had face masks available for 10 days, and we ended up selling like 12,000 of them. Then we also had to, like, we were gonna donate if you bought one. We donated one. So really we had to make like 24,000 masks.

And it took us 30 days to do. So we had to source material on the fly because it was like everyone was making masks and it was like crazy.

It was the wild west

of masks. It was the wild, wild west.

But like between that and then like, if you think of that area, like Hotel Tango's making hand sanitizer. Oh yes.

Like,

yes.

Everyone's just like,

yes,

sanitation products galore

a hundred percent. And so what, we only had those products listed for like 10 days because I was like, I can't, I can't be in this game. I don't, you know, this is a serious thing. I'm just buying like, you know, ripstop fabric and, and cutting up hair ties and make a mess.

You know, like, I was like, I don't, I'm not, I shouldn't be in this realm.

Yeah.

But that time allowed us, we made quite a bit of money to then reinvest into our machinery. We got a clicker press, which essentially cuts your materials out. We got more sewing machines, so, and we were also launching women's products, so, so on our fourth year we launched our first woman's product.

And from then on, like. We are like 70% women. 30%. Dude,

was that like a, a revel like a revelation. You're like, what was I thinking?

Men buy once they buy one, they'll buy, buy a bag they'll have for life.

Yeah. Wallet. I'm gonna have it for at least half a decade,

maybe more. If I make, if I make the penny bag and eight colors, girls are gonna buy all eight.

I'd much rather go with that room. And that's like been like a huge, uh, that was a huge time in, in the business.

Yeah. And it's almost like you can't see the forest of the trees. You're like so dialed in on making like the best Yeah. Bags for Yes. Wallet. It's stuff for men. Yes. And then you're like, wait a second, like how, like, I know average like per dollar spent by gender and you're like, oh yeah, oh yeah.

You know, people that like a lot of different styles and colors and fashions like that might be who I wanna make products for. For

sure. For sure.

Talk to us about like, like was that the inflection point where things just started to go berserk?

I think so, yeah. But we were also like. It was myself and at one time, it's funny, we've had a Jay Boy and we have a Sean boy now.

Jay boy was working with me for about two years and was helping me produce products while Bailey was selling to retailers or to, you know, corporations, to do corporate gifting because the John Wayne deal kind of opened my eyes to being like, okay, people want their name on things and this is a realm that we can do.

As we're doing that, she's bringing in more contracts for us. So we ended up working with a lot of, um, like crazy individuals and, and making quite a bit of money on the corporate side of,

okay, so like, well, what were some of the brands that are coming in and like, Hey, will you make. Uh, corporate wallets or corporate bags.

So, um, a company here, Jet Access. Oh, yeah, yeah. Quinn Ricker. He is a great guy. Yeah. Um, he came in and he was like, I want you to develop a line of luggage and I wanna outfit my planes with promotional products that say Jet Access on it.

Yep.

So we developed, you know, the contract was a lot and it was, we developed rolling luggage for them.

We would, we developed duffel bags for them. We

were those products that you already sold or? No,

no. They, you just

like figuring it out.

Figuring it out. So we were designing it. They were approving it, and then it was like, okay. You know, but we weren't just making one. We were making like, you know, 25 garment bags, 25 rolling luggage, like, you know, a slew of wallets and like giveaways.

We were doing all of their promotional products at that time. Um, so that was a huge,

and I think that that's something I wanna type into is. The evolution of the promotional product. Oh

yeah.

What used to be like stress balls and pens and you're getting like a thousand of those. Yeah. And like people started to realize, well, if I put my brand on a cheap product, people are gonna associate my brand with cheap

For sure.

But if I, instead of getting a thousand, if I got 10 or a hundred, like quality

Yeah.

Great products and gave that to, to like my really special prospects or customers or wherever it was like, people are gonna associate my brand with quality

for sure. We, we, I like to say, uh, ditch the everyday stress ball.

You know, we're here to make you look cooler.

Yeah.

You know, you want to feel like that when you have your name on something.

Yeah.

So we were like getting those contracts in, um, as more come in like, you know, when the Olympics were happening at that time, Wilson Sporting Goods got a hold of us and we're like, yeah, we want you to make bags for every softball player of the Olympic team.

So we were doing that. Wait,

what?

Yeah, it was crazy.

You got to make bags for every Olympic softball

player. Yeah. Yeah. So, um. That was amazing. And then, you know, at that time we're, we're cooking, you know, it was myself, Jay Boy had left. It was myself, Bailey, and it was, uh, SHA boy. And then I brought during C-O-V-I-D-A friend of mine who's an amazing photographer.

I had her on retainer 'cause it was during COVID because like she wasn't getting as many contracts and so she was taking all of our like, brand videos. She was taking all of our product shots. She was helping us a lot, a lot with the media sense. And then when she left and went back to work, um, sheen, who's with me to this day, he is, um, he's our operations director.

He started doing all of our content and that's when Howl + Hide's content just leveled up.

Yeah. And you became like you guys got more of like a personality. Yes. And like, again, it's like you're building a brand. A big part of that is like, how are you perceived on the internet? Yes. And, and would you say like, I mean you guys have a ton of followers.

Your videos are great. Like you, you definitely play the the character Yeah. In front of the camera. So, well, and it's not necessarily character 'cause it's authentically who you are, but like, you know, you're going all out as, I think it's leather, like leather, leather daddy. Leather daddy.

My license plate says leather daddy.

That is incredibly like, and I mean you talk about being, for us, like what really changed it for like when I embodied Indiana, like I am just the Indiana guy. Yeah. When you're leather daddy, like people just like you are obsessed with leather for sure. Like they want to like. Uh, I would say like, support, but also like glean a little bit of like your crazy creativity when they come in and buy a bag.

Like, I bought a bag from a leather daddy.

Sure. Well, my, I find that a community is a huge importance in what I do and like, it's just very weird when people aren't forward facing in that when they're building something and it's, you know, something that I just ingrained in my DNA.

Yeah. Well, and it's like some people in classic Hoosier Way, which I love.

They're like, I don't wanna be the, like, I'm, I'm humble. Yeah. I'm like that, like Hoosier humility. Mm-hmm. Like, it's wrong for me to be out there. And it's like, well, I see where you're coming. And it should never be about like, oh, I'm so great. Like, look at me, me, me. Yeah. But it's like you are talking about the team.

Oh. And talking about the leather and like you're talking about the community and the aspect that it doesn't have to come off as like, look at you, you're the greatest hand Stitcher in the world.

Yeah. Like,

people don't like Yeah.

Right. You know, like, that's a big thing, you know, it's like. You know, we, when Sheehan came on, it was like, you know, the four of us, it was me, Bailey, Sean, and Sheehan, and we were like crushing it in that little space and it was like, you know, becoming this, this kind of like monster.

You know, we all kind of knew a big philosophy that I had is, I'm gonna start with my long-term people. I don't really believe in like part-time work. All of my people are full-time. Um, I wanna invest in my people and I wanted to start at the top. So I wanted to find my crew of individuals that I would be able to, you know, lean on whenever I needed them.

So I really was developing that board of directors first.

Okay. Which is an interesting pa place from like an entrepreneurial standpoint because I'm there. You either have to do a really great job of talent discovery, like finding people in interesting places, or you have to spend a lot to get like a senior level.

Yeah. Whatever. And I, it's senior level, like that seems very corporate, but like someone who knows operations inside now and can impact your business. Yeah. Versus like going and find like someone who hits their first job.

For sure. My biggest, uh, thing is like, I want your thumbprint on the brand. Like that's what I want.

Like Sheehan didn't have necessarily, he was taking photos and videos and whatnot, but like, he's literally our C-O-C-O-O now. So he's been able to take his thumbprint and put it so much on the brand and has created so many different, um, objectives for himself as well as for the brand that I don't necessarily have that, that's not coming from me, it's coming from him.

What do you think the biggest qualities or characteristics that business owners should look for when building their core team?

Uh, empathy and objectiveness.

Empathy and objectiveness. Yes. Okay. Talk to me about empathy.

So that's a big thing back then, you know, when I was in that space, uh, before we moved into this space, now I was not the nicest of people and I don't think I was the nicest of people because I had all these ideas in my head and my shoulders were like weighted down.

I wanted to execute every idea that I had. I had to do all this myself, you know? And at that point it was like, whoa, bro, these people are here to help you, like lead with that empathy, right? Anything that they come to me, any situation, they come to me like be, have their back, like. Be understanding on where they're coming from.

Right. If you've had a terrible day and you're acting not in the best mood, I'm not gonna be like, yo, quit acting like that. I'm gonna be like, yo, what's going on with you? Like, how can we correct this? You know? So being empathetic within that is a big, big, big thing, especially within my leadership, because when, below that, we've got other employees that I wanna make sure that everyone's a great representation of the brand.

I wanna make sure that everyone is, is empathetic to everybody's needs. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I feel like that's a hard transition to make as a founder. Yeah. Going from like you, you talk about 7:00 AM to 3:00 AM Oh yeah. You're, you're obsessed. I'm still

the first one there and

Yeah.

In the morning, every single day

and you're like, I'm lose.

You're like talking about losing friends. Yeah. 'cause you're just so committed to this and it's like even the best employees. They're not the owner.

No, they're not.

You

know,

so if I'm able to like open that up and allow them to make their mistakes and for them to make their successes and put their thumbprint on the brand, like all good's gonna come of that.

So being empathetic on the individuals in which you are working with is a huge one. But also being objective and like, I'm a big, big, big believer of like, you know. Putting your feet in their shoes and like looking at it from their perspective and always have fun. That's a huge pillar of ours as well. Um, so those are the things that like we really

Yeah.

Yeah. On the objectiveness.

Yeah.

I do wanna, like when you say being objective mm-hmm. Like how does that play out in, uh, in like a real working sense?

So every Monday, so a couple years ago we integrated EOS into the business. Yeah. Um, and a lot of people pay tens of thousands of dollars to go on a retreat to do it.

We just bought the book, read it, and held ourselves accountable.

That'd be the book. Traction.

Traction. It's an amazing book. Yeah, it will. It will. You know, we implemented it about a year and a half ago and it was like, oh, this is, this

is how it goes. Yeah. Uh, sorry. If you're an EOS implementer, like here's what you do.

Take the book, you can get like the PDF download, put it into chat or put it into cloud or whatever and have it be your like, facilitator. Oh yeah. And like you can like implement this in your business pretty quickly. It's

very quickly

without paying the 10. Sorry for any of the like, that's like a business that's probably gonna go away from like being an implementer for that.

Yeah. It's uh, it was incredible. And at that point, like we do our meetings on Monday, and when I say be objective. I'm big on transparency. I'm big on if you are in that room, you're making decisions in that room. Nobody talk over one another. Nobody put another one down. Everybody see everybody's point of view.

Mm-hmm.

Everybody has a different point of view on it. Let's pull those and put 'em all out on the table and let's like figure out a best solution.

Okay. And so. The, it was four of you.

Four of us that are on the, or on directors now.

Yeah. That were, but those original four Oh. Back that were like really punching your foot through the gas Yeah.

And taking this thing to the next level.

Yeah. So, and then meanwhile, my best friend owned a barbershop in Broadville. Um, and he was leaving his barbershop to which he's crazy for just like dumping that off and then starting a fresh start. And he actually opened up in our back room of our old location.

So at that point,

I know this guy,

Cody.

Cody,

he's, yeah, I've known him for 13 years. We're best

books you guys look like. I didn't,

everyone always gets us confused.

Oh, I was gonna say, I feel like, 'cause he was like right up here on the Dr. Ripple strip. Yes, yes, yes. And I feel like I remember him talking about this or something.

Yeah. I'd go in there and get a haircut and so he ends up opening up in the back room.

So we've been, him and I have been building motorcycles together for like 13 years, you know. Yeah. And, uh, well he's always been a buddy of mine. And as I, like when IF when I quit my job at Angie's List, I went to the barbershop to hang out.

You know, I was there when I prob, you know, I was like,

back in the day when they still served like Lone Star beer.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, um, and they've got beer in they, so they're right next door to me as well now. So, but back then, like we were both bouncing ideas off on each other. He was like, I just need a place to like land.

So I had this like little back room of our old shop that he started Wild's Barber Shop in, and then we had the intention of like, I need to find a bigger space. Right. So the very first thing I did was I opened up a temporary location in at Clay Terrace for three months only to test the market. You know, I wanted to go to a zip code in which we send a lot of product in Indiana.

So we tested the market. It was over holiday. This would've been,

how do you negotiate that with, uh, they

wanted us there.

They wanted you there? They

wanted us there

and they were willing to do like a popup for the holiday.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

So essentially what I did was I opened up that popup, it was super successful.

I took that cash from that popup and I was like, we're moving. We're gonna find a new building. We're too small for this building. We're in. We, let's incorporate the barbershop. Let's find a building that fits our needs perfectly. We're on the hunt for a building, and then push comes to shove. I get in contact with a guy, um, my landlord, um, he's amazing.

Um, in our spot now. And if you remember it was Bovaconti and then there was like all boarded up for a long time and I saw the space that I was in that I was looking at. It was like the most beautiful, massive space with a loft above. And I was like, this is gonna be perfect. How long high can be down here.

We can make everything in the back and the barbershop can go upstairs. And so we signed the lease on our current location. I took it, it was a, it was a good year, build out on that lease. So I took the money that I made from the Clay Terrace popup to then open up where we are today.

Did you ever think about retaining something up on the north side?

So, my very first retail job was at Hollister at Clay Terrace.

Oh. To be honest with you,

I was there for only a little while. I

got, I mean, I can still get the, the notes of the Hollister from you. Yeah. After the, the whole like cologne wall you have to go through, get in there,

put sand in the, in the pockets, you know?

Yeah.

Like you're at Huntington Beach.

Wait, is that a real thing?

Yes, it was. They

would put sand

in the Oh yeah. Just to make you feel like you were, you know.

That's hilarious. Okay. Wait, so then you get, you take the popup funds. Yeah. You invest that into the new spot, but then you've guys have kind of like built a whole little like empire right through

there.

Yeah. So what we've done is. Essentially I walk into that retail space. My wife is, you know, a successful stylist in town. She never wants to do anything. She didn't have any intention to like go off on her own. So I walk in this space and both sides are opened up. There's not a wall splitting both of them in between.

And she was very much like, Ooh, I wanna open that space next door. And then Cody was like, I want the loft space upstairs. So. We did our build out, we opened up and then it was another year and a half before the salon opened up next door. But now currently it's Bovaconti. Justin's a great friend of mine.

Um, Lauren, my wife next to me, then it's myself, and then Cody's right next door to me.

Yeah, you got a whole little, so I love that like your, your title spot here is just

like Oh yeah.

A line out the door

that's our sample sale. So we do it once a year and it's crazy. Yeah. We do our sample sale and we do our garage sale at the factory.

So

because the business has evolved

very

much over the years, so now there's really three parts to it. Yes. One, you have your retail Yes. Uh, your consumer products where people can come in and buy a bag, a wallet, whatever it might be. Then you have the promotional side. Mm-hmm. Which would be, Hey, you're a business owner out there and we wanna do some really quality corporate.

Yes.

Gimme some examples. So you talked about jet access, you talked about Wilson.

So really what happened was, so we did, was doing all those things. It was literally me on Gmail just. Typing emails to everybody. I could, like, literally everybody. Hi, uh, Christian bought from High Alpha. He started carrying our notebooks.

Uh, the state was buying our notebooks that were, they were giving to new employees. So we were like getting these contracts kind of like off the ground.

That's surprising. The like No, no disrespect to the state. Yeah, but I just said, can't imagine them handing like a really like cool sle. Yeah. Like High Alpha and Christian.

Totally makes sense. So

we, but that's, that's part of now our sales team, you know, like, 'cause I was selling those products to those individuals and I was like, you need this, this is what you need, you know. So we'd opened the store where we're at now on Virginia, and this is actually a kind of funny story.

I was working nonstop and I had a Sunday off and uh, come in on Monday and my employee at the time was like, Hey man, uh, this guy from the Pistons came in and I'm like, okay, uh, what did he say? And he was like, you know, he's talking about getting bags for the team. And I was like, sick, what was his name?

And he is like, I don't, I don't, I don't know his name. And I was like, what's his email? He's like, I didn't get his email. I was like, what's his phone number? He is like, I didn't get it. I'm like, gotta be kidding me. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. There's no way.

So what, so what do we have to go on

here?

So about a month later I get an email from a guy named John who's the equipment manager for the Pistons. And he's been with the, since he was like 21 years old. And he saw my episode of Good Bones that I was on. Yeah. And he was like, I have 30 days, I need you to make the entire team duffle bags. And I was like, done.

Got it. And he loved those duffle bags so much. Um, and then I find out that he's the president of the Equipment Managers Association. So he invites us to the NBA EMA, which is the equipment managers trade show up in Chicago. And we go every year now. So we started picking up NBA teams. And the reason why we started picking up NBA teams is because NBA, they all own their own logos.

So I don't have to license it out. Like if you know. Hey, if the Colts are watching, I wanna make some stuff. But like, NL owns all their

logos. Well, they actually just got, they just got a huge new, like, negotiation with the Colts or with the NFL.

Yeah.

Like they're allowed to do more with their brands

now.

So the NB a's open, the, each team owns their own logo. So we go to, uh, the trade show and we start picking up other teams. Finally, the Pacers give us a call.

Finally.

Finally. You

know, like, how many other teams were you doing?

I think we had done three.

Oh,

I know, I know. And the Pistons were, I know the Pistons were a huge one for us, and they're still big for it.

We, we worked with

like, you're doing bags,

so there's a, a lot of different levels to this. So at first we first entered in the NBA, we were working directly with equipment managers and they were getting things for their, you know, their players. Yeah. So like, um. One, we did the initial Pistons duffels, but then they played in Paris.

We made hundreds of units for like, them to give away for like the players to give away to the, you know, people that were coming with them on those trips and whatnot. We had the Pistons in store. Um, we presented Ivey with a diaper bag, which I don't know about Ivey right now, but, uh, they all were hanging out in the store.

He's still, he's still cool. Still. He's still cool. Purdue guy.

Yeah.

Yeah. Um, my alma mater.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Yeah. Um, so, so then, you know, we picked up a couple teams and then Pacers are like hyped and we're like, we can do a lot of different things with you, you know, um, we were making things for the players, but then you have like the Pacers organization, which is like team based, and then you have like the organization, which is like, you know, building.

You have like, you know, anything with the Pacer's logo and then you have building, which the biggest one that we did was the All Star game was rolling around and the Pacers were like, yo, we're the host city, so we ended up making, you know. There were 500 duffle bags, I think all said and done. There was like 2000 units of promotional products that we were giving to the Pacers.

But what was really cool was that, uh, Haliburton came in and him and I designed a bag together and we made it, and he, he gave it to every player of the All Star game.

No way.

Which was so sick. Um, that's

high.

It was so sick. And so, um, we did that. And then, uh, so NBA's always been really good to us. And so the Pelicans are another team that we do a lot of stuff for Raptors

and it's not necessarily, these are all like more on the promotion side.

Yeah. Not stuff that would be sold in the team store.

Yeah. So, well we've done that as well, Uhhuh. So, um, we've done the penny bag, which is our most popular bag. Um, you can wear it as a belt or across your body. It's six by nine by one and a half, which we strategically designed that size to be able to get into like, big sporting events.

Yeah. Concerts and whatnot. So you can find the penny bag in Gainbridge Fieldhouse right now. Um, they're about to get a bunch of stuff for fever. So, um, we, we work really well with them. Um, they're great individuals. And now what's nice is that whenever they have somebody that's coming and playing, like. Brooks & Dunn played and they, they were like, yo, we need whiskey glasses and you know, promotional stuff that say Gainbridge on it, we ship it to them.

That's

yeah.

Brooks & Dunn.

Yeah.

Like isn't that wild to think that like Tyrese Haliburton Oh yeah. Brooks & Dunn. Oh yeah. Like the biggest NBA players have your work.

Yeah, it's pretty incredible. Um, I actually just got back from Texas. We do one event a year. It's called the Luck Reunion at Willie Nelson's house.

And so we've made merch for them as well.

Wait,

in the past

you hanging out with Willie

Nelson? Not hanging with him, but just at his house, which is kind of cool. It's, it's a huge, uh, to, I dunno, it's not that big. It's about 4,000 people. It's a festival. It's one day only. So we, uh, they invite 10 vendors to go out there and we've been going out there for, you know, the last four years.

So

No way.

It's been fun. So, um, really that side of it's kind of been building up, which is amazing. But what I think like the most beautiful thing about it is that from what stemmed from like my basement, it's now like, I think about like, you know, what is this about, like what is the reason of existence?

Like why does how and ex hide exist? And we're going through this like really big transformative period of like really dialing into that question. And like, because when I was do, been doing this, I've been doing this on the fly, it's been like, you know, you know, just very, very quick. So we've really taken a deep look of like, why do we exist and we exist because of the people that we have, the product that we make and the community that we built.

Yeah. And it's something that's rings really true to me and it's seeing, you know, the block of Fountain Square and you know, the connections that we have. That's very intentional. You know, um, these teams of these, you know, four directors that, or these three directors that I have, you know, you have Sheehan who's running our, um, content.

He's doing all of our video and all of our photo. He was not doing that before and he was like, he had a knack for that. And we've elevated him and he is doing that, you know, at the factory we've got. Sean and Kyle. Isabella runs the factory. We've got Jenna and Abby there that all of our art students

Where's that at?

So it's right next to McNamara Florist.

Okay.

So it's on the like, uh, east side of Mass Ave. Oh, so you take the Mass Ave corridor all the way east over by like Factory Arts District area? Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

We're over there.

Okay, so you have a factory there. Yes. Then you have a retail store

on Virginia Avenue.

Yep.

Yes.

And, and then collab is housed out of that retail store. Gotcha. Um, so Factory is cooking and then our collab sales department is amazing. We've got Joe, Beth, and Mike that are really crushing it. Um, and they are our salespeople. So they are working tirelessly, talking to individuals about, you know, things that we can do and how we can make, you know, promotional products come to life for those individuals.

Yeah. And they're rushing it.

Where do you get to spend most of your time

if you've read the book? Traction? Um, being like a visionary. Um, and like Sheehana is my integrator, so he allows me to do a lot of. Things. Uh, but really where I spend my time are big problems or, you know, big issues, uh, culture and r and d.

So that's pretty much where I live. So at the store, it's our retail store. The back area is my studio, and then upstairs we have offices and content studio.

Man. I mean, it's a, it's an incredible just culture. Yeah. It's an incredible company that you guys have built through the la 12 years.

Yeah.

Is that why

11?

11 years? Yeah.

11. So I started the company in 2015.

Ah, yeah. Okay. So you started leather making? Yeah. In 2014.

October of 2014.

Oct Oh my. Okay. Yeah. So in 11 years you guys have grown to, you know, you said you're doing festivals at Willie Nelson's house. Yeah. Tyrese. And you are, are co making a bag. Yeah. Like, that's nuts.

It's pretty insane.

Where do you see Howl + Hide going?

We want to be like the premier, you know? Corporate product company. We want to build upon our catalog that we already have, and we really want to be pur, purposeful and intentional. Uh, that's our big thing.

So are all of your promotional, um, corporate items leather?

Uh, yeah. Okay. And, uh, they are, we have a few canvas items that, um, you know, we're sourcing, uh, like in a like cam. So hospitality is a big one for a big industry for us.

Yeah.

So, um, we don't make anything out of canvas, so we have sourced this domestically made canvas apron that we then put a leather patch on.

Yep.

Um, but really, you know, this made in USA has this like viewpoint of being very masculine and very like, you know, think about like WeatherTech mats, you know, it's like made in America, you know? Yeah. Built for tough. And that is like the opposite of what I am stressing. I am stressing that like, this is fun.

This is fun. That being made in USA does not need to be. Generalize is built to last. It can be intentional, it can be soft, it can be community driven, it can be humanitarian, it can be all these things less, ugh.

Yeah. And it doesn't have to be as political almost, you know? No. Yeah. Where it's like, I mean, I don't know.

I feel like that sometimes can get a bad rap. Yeah. Where it's like made in America. Yeah. And it's like, well honestly, we should be proud of anyone making we should. Anything

we should. Yeah. You know, I just think it's weird. It's funny the, the like psychology behind it. 'cause if you think about Made America, you think about those things.

You think about legacy, you think about heritage, you think about these strong, strong words that are powerful words. And they're beautiful words. And I wanna say that they're bad words by any means, but like it's not very approachable. And my demographic of individuals being 70% women is like, they don't care that you're built tough.

They wanna know that you're built with intention behind human hands. So that is a, you know, gap. We're trying to bridge between both ideologies.

How do you keep the soul of Howl + Hide while also scaling

by staying fiercely independent? That's a huge one for us. We're a vertically integrated business. We buy the materials, turn those materials into a tangible product that we then sell.

I mean, talk about full vertical integration. We might need to get like a farm somewhere.

Let's do it.

You know? You know, like start investing in cows. A hundred

percent. I love regenerative farming. That'd be amazing.

Think about this. We buy. A cow,

let's do

it. And we, you know, take it to full life cycle there.

I feel like down by you. There's also like CETs, like the meats. Oh yeah. Let, we get like a, we get like, let's, the meat producer, we get the, we like take a hole from Indiana start to finish to like products.

Yeah,

that would be crazy.

A close friend of mine, Jonathan Brooks, he owns Milktooth and Beholder. Uh, he started Milktooth when I was starting Howl + Hide.

And we've been friends like ever since. Throughout that, and him and I have talked about this intensely, about really showcasing regenerative farming and like understanding that the meat industry is not gonna go anywhere and everything else is then waste. It shouldn't be waste. So like, how can we. Source the best local ingredients, meaning that, and how can we harvest that in the most beautiful way?

Yeah. And how can we make products off of that to where you're sitting at the dining room table and maybe your place mats made out of Bessie, you know, like maybe your coaster, you,

your like shirt you hat on.

Yeah. Yeah.

That would be what do you know, uh, Chris Baggott.

No.

Co uh, he was like the founder or he was like a co-founder of ExactTarget co-founder across the truck.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Now he does, um, the farm out in Greenfield. Yeah. Um, Tyner Pond Farm.

Yes.

He is like so big into regenerative farming and he's like the smartest person I've probably like, no offense, he probably No, you're good. But he the smartest person I've had a conversation with. It wasn't even on the podcast.

Yeah.

I drove out to Greenfield. He said, I start every Monday morning at this coffee shop. If you wanna hang out, just show up.

Yeah.

I showed up there and we just like chatted and he's like blowing my mind on regenerative farming and like how, you know, like right now we're so heavy in corn, but we could be spending our, like putting our farm land into these other things like it's nuts.

Yeah.

Listen to him talk about it. 'cause he does it at length and he is very, very intelligent and yeah,

when we talk about sustainability, that's the ultimate form of sustainability is regenerative farming. Right? Like, these things aren't going away, you know, by you saying like, oh, I'm a sustainable person.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna carry this plastic bag. That's like an oxymoron, right? Like why would you carry, why would you add more plastic into the environment when you have something that is, you know what they do with leather hides when they're not used? They just bury them, which is terrible for the environment.

You know, like, let's use all these things. If that animal has been raised and. Is being utilized. Like let's give that animal the decency to use everything. You know? I don't wanna be just like picked apart and been like, oh, the rest of this can be thrown away. You know, not to like sound very graphic, but like, I'm a big proponent of that.

Yeah. I, um, I recently got into deer hunting.

Oh,

cool. Like that has like been my, uh, so my girlfriend's dad, ultimate Hunter. Yeah. Um, and we, uh, so I got my first Deer last year. Nice. And it's like, we like did not take it to like a place to process. Yeah. We processed it ourselves, which is like for anyone that.

I mean, it's like an experience. Oh yeah. Did you

like Brain T tan it? Is that what it's called?

Well, so that was the next thing that we're getting into. Yeah. Yeah. Is like we started and there's like a, I mean there's like tanning leather is like an, an art all on its own. It's so like, that I think is our next iteration of really getting into not only processing all the meat, but also how do you turn this

For sure.

Deer hide into something. Yeah. And like you have to t it and there's like a whole whole piece to it. But like,

it's, it's crazy because in, in America there was, you used to be tanneries all over the place. Yeah. It was like literally the tanneries. And now we only have a handful of tanneries left.

It's really in, I mean, especially probably with your time out in South Dakota, you probably saw like they, uh, I feel like that the, the like native crew

Oh yeah.

They're like super into using every single piece of everything that they take from the land. For sure. Which is really interesting.

And you know, that's a whole other side of the base that is crazy when we're sourcing, you know, hundreds of thousands of square feet of leather to then turn into bags. It's like, I gotta make sure that I'm buying the best leather, you know?

Yeah. Um. So I've learned quite a bit about, about that process, which is absolutely insane.

Um, wild. I think that, I love that you say fiercely independent. Yeah. That's how you continue to keep the soul of Howl + Hide as you grow and expand and make, I mean so many cool things. What can we expect, what can we see coming out of Howl + Hide throughout the, this year's, the summer?

Like what's coming down the pipeline?

Oh man. We've got a lot of cool stuff coming. We've got a couple different, uh, collections that are incorporating things that are not leather. There'll be leather pieces in them, though I'm pretty excited about. Um. I'm actually taking time and, uh, kind of going through all of our products and like making them a little bit better, uh, starting this and teaching everybody how to do this.

Like, you know, we don't have anybody that has experience that came in here, like we have taught everybody how to do.

Do you still hand 'em like that original book

pretty much? Like,

hey, like, hey, here's the book that I learned how to make leather, like leather goods out of.

Yeah. Um, but one thing that we've never had of like liners and bags, so we're gonna be having a few bags coming out with like liners and adding some new textiles in there.

Um, so just really elevating, elevating our bags.

Yeah.

Um, we are getting collab off the ground on e-commerce level, which I'm very, very excited for. Um, it's the first phase of what collab is to, to be. Um, eventually I want collab to be like Nike ID to where if you're like, yo, I want get in merch, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna.

Pick up this, I'm gonna click this coaster. Coaster will show up. You can drag your logo right on top of it, and you can buy it right through the site.

Yep. Upload high

res image. Yeah. So that's like the next phase of where we're going. Um,

that's fire.

Yeah, we did, we just wrapped up our garage sale, which we had, you know, hundreds of people out for, which was a lot of fun.

So it's nice to kind of get back on track after that.

Yeah.

We're, we're just excited to keep making products, you

know. Amen, dude. Okay, well we've come to the part of the show where we're talking all things Indiana. So this question is brought to you by our friends.

JC Hart, they're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homeisjchart.com. My question for you, why do you call Indiana

home? I call Indiana home because of the Midwest mindset that we talked about. I call Indiana home because it's unlike any other place that is free of pretentiousness and full of wit and charm,

free of pretentiousness, full of wit and charm.

I like that. Yeah, that's, that's, that's so great. I think that that is my experience. It's just like people are down to earth. Yeah. Nice people. And it's like, it almost like shocks. Visitors are like, are people really, there's nice, like, what the heck?

Yeah, I'll, I'll travel places and go to go to things and, and people will be like, hi, have you met those dudes from Indiana?

Have you met those dudes from Indiana? And it's like, I hear that constantly wherever I go. And it's like part of that DNA that we have.

What's your favorite part of the bag making process?

I think it would be forming it. Um, that's a great, that's a great, great question. So there's a lot of different areas of it, um, and you sew a little bit and then you glue a little bit. But I think when you're like on that final sewing phase and you're forming the bag and you're looking at it right before you sew it, that's like, that's, there's a lot of error that can happen there, but there's sets you up for success.

What's one thing that Indie does better than anywhere else?

We go fast, baby. We go fast and we turn left. Yeah. You know, like, like I have like, and I think that that is. That goes across all layers of, uh, business or life.

Yeah. This is Speed City.

Yeah baby.

Come on. Alright. Is it harder to learn something yourself or to teach it to an employee?

Teach it to an employee?

I think that it takes such a special, um, per you have to have such, I mean teachers just in general. Yeah. Like if you, like, I would rather much, I would much rather spend my time like learning than, 'cause it's hard to teach.

Yeah. We, I like to think of it as in when we think about like what our kind of core pillars are.

One of the, um. Pillars was either equality or equity. And we chose equity because everybody learns different. And we wanna make sure that everybody has the right tools for them to learn.

Mm-hmm. Amen. What's your dream brand? Collaboration?

Bush light.

Oh

yeah.

Yeah.

I wanna make a solo bush light canister with a cross body strap.

Oh yeah. And that might to be like an Indy five. Let's go Indy 500 drop.

Let's go. Yeah,

that would be, did you know, do you know Hobs dot Indiana?

Yeah.

They were like claiming to be the bush light capital of the world. I love it. They have like six silos. Yes. And they said they, I don't know, they used graphic design, Photoshop, whatever, and they put bush light logos on it and they were saying like, we should paint our,

yeah, dude,

we, we should paint our silos to look like a 6 95 calories

is the best beer you can

get.

Dude, Bush, uh, Shane is usually in the office. He's from Iowa and he's not in today, but he will love this clip because he loves bush light. I love

lattes.

I love him. A little bush latte. Come on now. Um, when you're not thinking about Helen Hyde, what is your favorite way to relax?

I have Garth, who's my dog.

Um, I have Graham and Tina who are my cats, and I have uh, Jack Kelly and Amy Osborne who are my fish.

So we got dog, cats and fish.

Yeah. And my wife too, Lord.

And you're right. Yeah. I love her. Right. Uh, well and it's so cool that she got to start her Yeah. Business right next to yours.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's so fun.

It was amazing.

Um, incredible. And for those that don't know what, um, Darling is Darling. Yeah. Yeah. It is a salon. Right?

Salon. We've got a massage studio upstairs as well. It's a five chair salon. It's beautiful. It's, uh. We've taken a lot of time crafting it.

Yeah. You said you made your place in eight months and her, her farm.

Yeah.

Two years.

Yeah.

Yeah. There you go.

Yeah.

Um, I love that. Okay. These are the same three questions we ask every guest that comes on. First things first, you traveled all around from Willie Nelson's ranch to New York City, out to the West Coast to Joshua Tree. If you could shout it from the rooftops, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana?

Uh, Indiana is open for business. And I say that because traveling everywhere, I will never leave Indiana because I can afford it. It's accessible and you know, exposure's in the eye of the beholder and we all have phones and the occupancy rate here is lower. Come, come out here and build it out here and take it on the road.

Amen. There we go. Now this is your, your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana?

I have to go with this. It's Landwerlen Leather Co.. It's on the corner of South and Illinois. A lot of people have never heard about it.

It's fourth generation. It was open in 1908 and it's a leather shop. They sell boot components, they sell leather hides. They've been doing it for as long as they have and they are like a lost gem and they're a very rare, rare thing. Um, they, when I was first starting out and I was going to Tandy, I discovered them and Eric Landwerlen, who's the fourth generation, literally, he would let me like.

Pay him later for leather. He would let me, like, he would order leather in for me. He was like the, he was, he would let me run a tab there. When you walk in there, you were like blown away 'cause it has not changed

land. We in,

yeah.

Leather coat

and it's been on the corner of state in uh, or on the corner of, uh, South and Illinois for literally since 1908.

And right behind them used to be Mayer Fabrics. I believe that was 1896. And both in the wholesale district, Mayer Fabrics used to make interiors for covered wagons. So they still are a distributor of textiles, but Landwerlen's been there forever. So if I wouldn't have had Landwerlen, I would not be sitting here today.

No way. This is crazy. Also, their website's from like 1902.

I know, I

know.

Uh, that's wild.

Everybody needs to go in there and just like, just get like leather conditioner or something because like. There are only a handful of those types of stores left in America.

Because, because they are supplying craftsmen like you.

Yes. Well, what they do, which I think is absolutely crazy, there's no computers in there really. So they are having boot shops all over the Midwest call them asking them for components. So if you like, go to their basement, you'll find like Black Cat Keel tips from like 1940. You know, like they have just, it's a, it is a museum in its own right.

Wow. If you're in interiors, go there and buy your rugs. If you, you know, are just a fan of history, go in there.

Yeah. Landwerlen Leather Co.

Landwerlen Leather Co.

since 1908. 19 eight. Incredible. Yeah. All right. Finally, this is where we source new guest ideas and we hear about other Hoosiers that we need to know about.

Who's a Hoosier? We need to keep on our radar. Someone who's doing big things.

Um, I have to, I gotta bring up my wife again. And I will say this because she, she watched me, she helped me for like 10 years, like. Whether it's like not paying bills or doing whatever I needed to do to scale this business and build this community.

She's been right by my side in doing so. And after spending 16 years at a premier salon in Indianapolis, she decided to do her own right. And to watch the community of women that she has built has been so inspiring. And it's like, you know, I'm just so proud of her because anything that I can do to pay her back, you know, she like literally lifted me up and helped me while I'm, you know, trying to just be the best that I can be.

And I'm really proud of that space. And I think that, you know, going to a salon is so, like, I wouldn't wanna be there for three hours, but sip and tea with your feet propped up is something I would do. Yeah. So you gotta go see her. Um, she just is really, really inspiring to a lot of women.

Yeah, man. I love that Christian dude.

What you've built in 11 years with Howl + Hide is incredible. Thank you. What started as reclaimed leather jackets from Goodwill that has turned into Pacers, pistons, the Olympics. Mm-hmm. Like, you get, you have made some incredible, incredible goods and you've done a lot of incredible, credible good in the city of Indianapolis, in our community, in the community that you've built.

I mean, keep it up, dude. I'm excited. If you're out there, if people want to one, get maybe, uh, level up their promotional products, if they want to go get some awesome leather goods, how can they find you and, and where can they buy?

Yep. Come into our retail store. We're on, uh, uh, Virginia Avenue, right downtown, or right in Fountain Square across the street from the HI-FI.

Um, you can go online, howlandhidesupply.com. You can go to our Instagram, Holland Hyde, if you wanna see, you know, so videos,

some great content.

Yeah. And uh, I have to say, buddy, you have been doing the exact same thing, so I'm really grateful for what you've been doing and the energy that you bring. Um. I always tell people that wanna move away from Indianapolis, come be, create the pond.

Don't go be a fish in somebody else's pond. Be here and help create the pond. So thank you for helping us create the pond.

Amen, man. I appreciate that. Thank you. And we'll talk to you soon. All right.

Yeah, thanks.