Restaurant Chains Almost Killed Their Family Business

Blake Foglesong: [00:00:00] Most people don't realize that restaurants are lucky if they make 10 cents on the dollar. Nate: No way. Blake Foglesong: Sometimes less than that. Yeah. Nate: One of the 50 most beautiful restaurants in America? Blake Foglesong: Everything from the silverware to the china to the uniforms. Nate: Like, that's just wild Perry Foglesong: to me. Here's a new thing. It's called casual theme restaurants.

Let's try that. From fast food to full service. Nate: Where was the moment where you're like, "Hey, we've gotta change the way we're doing stuff if we wanna keep going"? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get IN, the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today.

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My guests today are restaurateur extraordinaires. Now, Blake Foglesong is a third-generation restaurateur and owner of Clancy's Hospitality, a family-owned company operating seven restaurants across Indiana and Ohio. He has over 15 years of hospitality experience and has helped lead concepts like The Fountain Room and Grindstone on the Monon.

Now, Perry Foglesong is the president and CEO of Clancy's Hospitality, a second-generation restaurateur, and he's been leading as CEO [00:02:00] since 2000. Perry founded the Grindstone Charlie's chain in 1982, and Clancy's Hospitality was started in 1965. I'm so excited to dive into the history of this incredible Indiana restaurant group, the three generations of Foglesongs that have put this thing together.

Uh, gentlemen, welcome to the show. Blake Foglesong: Thank you. Thank Nate: you, Nate. Okay, so this, uh, has had many evolutions of what Clancy's Hospitality is. Uh, today you are operating seven restaurants across two states. Uh, what, six different concepts, I believe. Like, there's a, a lot of, uh, different, um, a lot of different experiences that happen, uh, within H- Clancy's Hospitality.

Yeah. But the story starts in 1965 with your dad, Perry. Right. What was your dad's name? Perry Foglesong: My dad's name was Carl. Nate: Carl. Perry Foglesong: Was blessed to find a partner to help him start his first restaurant in '65 in Noblesville, Indiana. Nate: The whole thing starts in Noblesville, Indiana, in 1965. Did your dad have [00:03:00] restaurant experience or food experience before that? Perry Foglesong: He, he actually, uh, was a factory worker up in Kokomo. Had a small restaurant on the side, uh, in Michigantown, Indiana. Nate: Oh, which... Wait, what was it called? Perry Foglesong: Uh, it was called The Hut. Nate: The Hut. This Perry Foglesong: is- Yeah, I don't really remember that, 'cause I was, like, four or five years old, so it's rather- Nate: Well, Michigantown is now, like, the Angry Donkey is the spot in Michigantown.

Right, Perry Foglesong: right. We were right down the street from there. But, uh- He started with that, and then a gentleman that owned a couple of restaurants met him and thought he was doing a good job and said- Mm ... "Let's build some restaurants together." So he was kind of the financial backing for the first one, and after it opened in Noblesville, it went extremely well.

And they just started expanding. His, uh, brother Gail came along with him a year later. In between the two of them, they built, uh, over 30 restaurants between '65 and probably '78. Nate: What was the original concept? Perry Foglesong: It was a, it w- a double drive-thru, Clancy's. We had our version [00:04:00] of a, I'll call it a Big Mac, but it was called The Topper. Nate: Oh, Perry Foglesong: yeah. Cheeseburger, french fries, uh, barbecue pork. Very limited menu. I think the, back then, the menu prices were, like, 15 cents for a hamburger, 20 cents for a cheeseburger. I mean, it was- Uh, Nate: this was, like, the rise of that style of, of restaurant, right? Right. Yeah. The, the, like, McDonald's, Ray Kroc-esque, like- Yeah

fast, small menu, the milkshakes, the french fries. And they... So that started in Noblesville and grew to over 30 restaurants. How far was the reach? Perry Foglesong: Uh, we had restaurants in Tennessee, um, m- a lot of restaurants in Ohio, and we had a couple, several in Kentucky. Nate: No way. Yeah. So four different states? Perry Foglesong: We were in four states. Nate: How old were you while this was happening? Perry Foglesong: Um, it started, I was, like, five or six years old, and I would literally go with Dad when he was looking for locations, and we'd drive different markets, and he'd say, "Oh, I can buy that property," or, "I can, you [00:05:00] know, buy these couple of properties- Yeah ... and we could tear these buildings down."

And so I was in- not involved, but I was aware of what was going on. Nate: What was he looking for when identifying good properties back in the '60s and '70s to expand the restaurant group? Like, what were the, the indicators that he was looking for? Perry Foglesong: And I gotta say, my dad's probably one of the smartest guys I've ever met, but he didn't go to college, so, and he always kind of felt like, "Well, I should've gone to college."

But, uh, I don't think he identified specifics, but it was all towns under about 20,000 people where there was no other competition. And he'd, they'd go in, and they'd build. They'd be the k- the king of the block. I mean, there was nobody else there to compete against them. And their demise actually kind of started in the early '70s when McDonald's changed their parameters and started coming into the same markets we were in. Nate: Oh. So, like, give us an example of some of the Indiana towns that they're... So it starts [00:06:00] in Noblesville, which at the time, Noblesville then, in '65, is so different than Noblesville is today, the, like, 90-plus thousand, uh, citizen, like, behemoth that it is today. Back then, it's, like, a farm town well north of Indianapolis.

Right. What Perry Foglesong: were the other- We were 11, we were 11,000 people back then. Nate: What were the other towns, uh, across the state that, that were opening Clancy's? Perry Foglesong: Uh, Pendleton, Rushville, Plainfield, Greenwood, uh, Rockville Road on the west side of Indy Yeah Um, I think those are- Yeah ... that's pretty much the- Well, and-

Indiana market, or Indiana market ... Nate: were you guys based out of Noblesville, so having to drive from Noblesville to all these different places to check on things and- Perry Foglesong: Yeah, that's where our corporate office is- Nate: Wow ... and has Perry Foglesong: always been. Nate: Okay. So g- does it grow pretty quickly then? If you say it starts in '65 and the demise starts in the early '70s, like, that seems like it was probably rapid expansion over those five or seven years. Perry Foglesong: Yeah, I mean, uh, they, they were [00:07:00] very, uh, aggressive, you know, back in the day. They actually built to the 30-restaurant mark and decided to start franchising in the late '70s. Nate: Okay. Perry Foglesong: And, uh, went through that whole process of developing a franchise model. I think they sold one or two franchises, but then in the late '70s, early '80s, we had the oil crisis and the interest rates went way up, and basically businesses weren't expanding, so- Okay

it kind of stopped. Nate: So how old were you when the writing on the wall of the, the version one of Clancy's, uh, was starting to, you know, have its demise? Were you in your formative years? Perry Foglesong: I was probably 17, 18 when I knew- Yeah ... Dad was struggling. Nate: Were you planning to join the family business? Perry Foglesong: I had always... I, I started working for the company when I was, like, 16 years old. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: And, uh, then I went to IU and got my degree, and always thought that would- Yeah ... ultimately be my path. Nate: What was your [00:08:00] first gig at the restaurant? Perry Foglesong: Oh, I was just, like, a fry cook- Yeah ... cooking breakfast. Nate: I, see, I love that when a family business, but you gotta start at the bottom. Like, you're no, you're no s- you're not more special than anybody else that starts as an employee.

Like, you're starting working the fries or, you know, flipping burgers or doing whatever there. I think that's, like, a pretty cool way to learn what really goes into running a business. What was your f- Especially restaurants. I was gonna say- I Blake Foglesong: mean, you have to- Yeah ... you have to start from the bottom. Nate: Where did, where did you start within the group? Blake Foglesong: Went to high school in Noblesville and graduated, uh, 20- 2016, or twen- 2006, I'm sorry. And I started at Michael Angelo's, our Italian restaurant. Nate: Yeah. Blake Foglesong: But similar to him, I started as, uh, flipping pizzas, um, serving, hosting, managing, just w- working my way up within the company. Nate: Is that, like, an interesting relationship to manage when you're working at your family establishment?

And, like, people obviously know that you're part of the family and, and, you know, your dads are, are, you know, influential in this, but you're also, you know, flipping pizzas, flipping [00:09:00] burgers, doing fries. Like, take me through the thought process of that. Perry Foglesong: I mean, I just always fit in. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: I didn't have an issue with, you know, I never had an issue with being the boss. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Go in, work hard, have fun. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Do your job, go home. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, I think the same for me. I mean, when I started in high school, like, all my friends would work there too, so it was kinda just fun for me building relationships and also- Working for the family business, you know, my, would go home at night and talk to my dad about work and what happened and all that.

But I think we're always trying to improve the concepts and improve the, uh, employee relationship and ships within our company as well. Nate: Yeah, I think that's, that's super cool. And, uh, I think that if you want to inspire your team, it's like starting from the bottom and in the front of that, like, "Hey, I'll, I'll go and toss the fries and flip burgers with the best of them and, and lead from there," I think that that's like an experience that, uh, can really solidify a good team culture. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, I don't, I don't think we would be here today if we didn't start from the bottom and work our way up [00:10:00] within the organization. Yeah. Nate: You know? That's so cool. So, you know, your formative years, you go to IU, and you end up, um, getting your degree from there. Where in this timeline did, did opening new stores start to turn into closing stores and, and restaurants started to fall and, uh, take us through that part of the timeline from Clancy's. Perry Foglesong: Well, I graduated from college in '81. We had one property in Noblesville that Dad had been a partner in that had closed, that had been for sale for a long time. And I went to him and, and my uncle and the executive team at Clancy's and said, "Here's a new thing. It's called casual theme restaurants. Let's try that."

And it was the first Grindstone Charlie's. Nate: Okay, wait, what... Casual themed re- like, where did this concept, uh, first make its appearance to you? Perry Foglesong: Well, the most, the only other example at that point was TGI Fridays. Nate: Oh, yeah. They Perry Foglesong: were- Okay ... they were the best example of what a casual theme re- you know, [00:11:00] restaurant was.

And the Noblesville market at that point was an i- interesting demographic because we had a lot of wealthy people in the harbors and a lot of factory people that worked at Firestone. So I, we tried to put together a menu that would appeal to both demographics in that marketplace. Nate: And so you came with this concept right when you graduated and said, "This is, I think this is a thing," and you convinced your, y- like, the, the company to open this? Perry Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: No, and did you get to run it? Perry Foglesong: Uh, I actually started as the assistant manager. The gentleman that was in charge, uh, came in with more experience than me, but I eventually ran it and then became an area director- Yeah ... for the company and- Blake Foglesong: Like, flew down to Atlanta, like, it was like the second or third Applebee's ever opened too, and they did this R&D.

Like, this was before Applebee's was even a chain. Perry Foglesong: Well, we actually, at that point, we had four Grindstone Charlie's. Nate: Mm-hmm. Oh, by the time that Ap- you had four Grindstone Charlie's and there were only three Applebee's? Perry Foglesong: There were five actually in Atlanta. And we flew [00:12:00] down to consider becoming a franchisee, and I was like, "Well, I've got four restaurants.

They've got five. Why am I gonna pay them a franchise fee when I'm doing really well with my concept?" And so we decided not to go that direction, and we just, uh... A lot of our first Grindstone Charlie's were properties that- Uh, uh, my dad had bought. He was very good about buying real estate. We acquired a lot of real estate back in the s- the '60s and '70s.

We were basically transitioning from fast food to full service and converting it g- to Grindstone Charlie's. Nate: Okay, so similar properties, like places that once had the double drive-through, were slinging burgers and fries, are now getting converted into this, you called it, um- Perry Foglesong: Casual theme ... Nate: casual theme. Perry Foglesong: We were doing prime rib, fresh seafood, but we were also doing breaded tenderloins- Yeah

burgers, uh- Were you- ... salads. Blake Foglesong: All the concepts had antiques on the [00:13:00] walls, and it was kind of that homey style feel. Nate: Did you help put together that first menu at Grindstone Charlie's? Perry Foglesong: Yeah. I mean, I, uh, I, I was n- I didn't come with a super amount of food experience, but I- Mm ... certainly had input. Nate: Well, when you think about starting a concept from basically nothing, like w- what are the factors?

Like, obviously, you know, the real estate piece. You have to have a, a, a building. But, like, take us through the idea of, of taking a restaurant from idea, conception, to actually bringing it to life and welcoming, uh, your first customer in. Like, I feel like there's a lot of parts to that journey that maybe don't go- Yeah

uh, don't get talked about. Blake Foglesong: I think sometimes it starts with the building that you come upon and wanna do, uh, a restaurant in. Other times, it's a concept we may have an idea for and wanna go out and find that building. Uh, with our... All of our spots have, have kind of been a little bit different. Like, the Fountain Room was kinda designed around, there was no steakhouse on the Mass Ave corridor, so we kind of wanted to do something there that was upscale, [00:14:00] American, and within our wheelhouse.

So that's kinda how that concept became. With The Pretender, our new concept in downtown Noblesville, which is gonna be a hi-fi cocktail lounge, 2,000 square feet, um, a really small space, 50 seats. We kinda felt that that building kinda screamed hi-fi cocktail lounge to us. So that was just an idea that came upon.

What, what is Nate: a hi-fi cocktail lounge? Like, hi-fi. Blake Foglesong: So hi-fi is, um, um... We started working with this company called Uncanned Music when we did the Fountain Room, um, a couple years ago. We originally wanted to work with them. We walked into this restaurant called Au Cheval in Chicago in 2015. I've heard of this.

If you've ever been there. Nate: Yeah, yeah. Blake Foglesong: Voted best bur- burger in America. And funny story, we were opening Grindstone Public House on this square a couple years ago, and we tried to get ahold of these guys to work with them. I think my dad sent them, like, 50 emails, and never were able to get ahold of them.

His last email was like, "Email us back or F off." Nice. Oh, Nate: yeah. And I Blake Foglesong: assume, I assume they never saw that email. I Nate: guess they F'd off. Blake Foglesong: So then we, um, we had, uh, signed the lease to do The Fountain Room, and I was like, "I've gotta get ahold [00:15:00] of these guys. They'd be perfect to do the music curation for this space."

And I just DM'd them on Instagram, and pretty quickly, like within an hour, they're like, "Yeah, we'll do your project." And I'm like, "They probably never saw my dad's emails." Nate: So the company that does the music for- Blake Foglesong: Yeah ... Nate: Oshva- Okay. So it was an actual- Blake Foglesong: Yeah. So th- so this company, uh, they, they, they have... They're able to source these sev- 1970s Akai reel-to-reel systems, which I had never even heard of until we walked into Oshva.

My dad's like, "This is the coolest thing I've ever seen." So Nate: what makes it spe- I've never been there. What makes it so different than just, like, turning on a Spotify playlist? Blake Foglesong: Um, so it's a reel-to-reel system, so it's like almost like a big cassette player. So they, this company makes three-hour custom music tapes for your restaurant, and they do digital playlists as well, but they're, um, they're DJs, and they...

But they do music curation for different restaurants around the country. Oh. All throughout New York, LA, Chicago. Nate: So do you Blake Foglesong: have, like- And we're the only company in Indianapolis that works with them, which is fun ... Nate: do you have, like, specific reel, where it's like, this is the opening reel, reel- Yeah ... and then three hours later, 7:00 PM- Blake Foglesong: Yeah, so they'll-

you're Nate: gonna Blake Foglesong: switch to this one? So they'll do, we have, uh, for The Fountain Room, we have maybe 30 different [00:16:00] tapes, and they have, on the back of it, they have all the, the, the song list and also the energy, the tempo, and also what time to play them. So we have, like, a 4:00 to 7:00 tape. We have a late night tape that's more hip hop style. Nate: Wow. Blake Foglesong: Um, so they had done a project out in California called Part-Time Lover, and it won best bar in America, and it's a small little cocktail bar. We had kind of saw what they did with that project, and we're like, "This would be really cool for Hamilton County to do something- Nate: Okay ... Blake Foglesong: fun and unique- Yeah ... for this area that nothing, no one's ever experienced.

Martha Hoover did a concept called Bar 114, um, not too far from here, um, and it closed down a couple years ago, but this will be a little bit different. We're putting in Tannoy hi-fi speakers, and, uh, we're gonna have a DJ area, so DJs will come in and spin vinyl nightly, which will be super fun and exciting for the area.

So we're gonna do that, like- Spin Nate: vinyl. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. So we'll have, uh, a reel-to-reel system. Um, so we'll open with that, playing reel-to-reels, and then we'll have a DJ in from, like, 7:00 to 10:00 or 7:00 to 11:00 Wednesday through Saturday. Nate: That's so cool. Okay. Perry Foglesong: Plus, [00:17:00] I will say the, the food menu we've come up with for The Pretender is outstanding. Nate: Yeah. Okay, so talk to me about that. The, the three-legged stool of opening these concepts, you have obviously the real estate, like the building, the space, like what's on the walls, that whole piece. You have the menu, like what are you serving, cocktails, food, the whole nine yards there, and then you have the vibe and the ambiance.

Talk about how you balance each one of those, and, and is there one that's more important than the others, and what do you spend the most time on when you're opening a new concept? Perry Foglesong: You're missing one. Oh. One part of the balancing act. Having the right management team Because none of it works if you don't have the right management team.

Yeah, the right Nate: people. Oh, so it starts with the people. Before, like, getting the right people on board. Yeah. Okay, so when you're looking for the right people, what do you look for? Perry Foglesong: I wouldn't hire him. No, I'm kidding. I Nate: think it's all feel. I mean, it's people we like. It's people we wanna hang out with, pe- and people we think of that are smart, that can do their jobs. Perry Foglesong: Yeah. And people that obviously- And trustworthy ... like other people. And honest. I mean, you have to be a people person- Yeah, yeah ... to be in this business. Yeah, Nate: you do. And, and just like a, a gracious [00:18:00] host. I feel like if you are someone who loves hospitality and literally, like, welcoming people, whether it be to a dinner party- Right, you have to have a maitre Blake Foglesong: d' mentality. Nate: Yeah, yeah. Yes. I just- You have to Blake Foglesong: really wanna take care of people. Nate: Yeah. I just read a book about the Vanderbilt family. Mm. Which is very crazy, but, like, their whole, like, social calendar, entertaining people, like, that whole vibe of just kind of, like, old world, uh, you know, you would invite friends over for cocktails at 8:00 PM on Tuesdays or whatever.

Like- Mm-hmm ... it just seemed like they were all, like, socialites. And, like, some of that is, like, you know, okay, a little bit over the top, and you were wasting a bunch of money. But when you're thinking about opening a restaurant, having a great host that really cares about the people that come into the door, and curating the right, you know, vinyl playlist, and- Yeah

and making sure the lights are at the right setting, and that everything is served d- uh, correctly, like- Yeah ... that is a whole vibe that's important. Blake Foglesong: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think it's all of the above. It's good design, [00:19:00] food, hospitality. Yeah. It's, it's all those things that make a great restaurant. Nate: How has that shifted from 1965 to 2025?

Like, were people thinking about what was on the, what was in the soundtrack in 1965? Well, Perry Foglesong: there was no, no, that wasn't the mentality. The- Yeah ... the Clancy's was basically a little factory. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: You had your production in the back. It went forward, and you had your sales in the front. Yeah. And that, that was it.

The, it was- Simple time ... just managing, managing the, the flow of- Yeah ... of products to, from, uh- Nate: Mm ... Perry Foglesong: production to- Oh, yeah ... to a guest. Nate: What about Grindstone Charlie's? Like, how was the, what was the... Is, is that, like, kind of the beginning of thinking of customer experience and- Perry Foglesong: Oh, for sure. Yeah ... curation Nate: there? Perry Foglesong: Yeah. I mean, obviously when you get into, uh, you know, the full service or casual theme mode, you're literally, you know, making sure people are greeted properly Um, their service level is higher, their experience is more warm and fuzzy, for sure. Nate: A- and, and that concept was so new. [00:20:00] Like rel- like there were probably people that came in to, or that worked at Grindstone Charlie's that had never been to a spot like that.

Uh, how do you curate that and explain/uh reinforce, "Hey, this is how we do things here," when... But today, uh, going to an Applebee's or a TGI Fridays or whatever is like everyone has probably done that. Mm. But then no one had done that. How do you make them feel that feeling and then share that to your guests? Perry Foglesong: I mean, back then it's not any different. You're, you're hiring people that like people- Yeah ... that, that care. Nate: How many Grindstone Charlie's do you end up growing, uh, growing to? Perry Foglesong: We grew to 13. Nate: 13. So, uh, at this time then, what, what years was that? Perry Foglesong: We started in '82- Yeah ... and- Blake Foglesong: We still have one in Kokomo. Um- Perry Foglesong: Right Blake Foglesong: but yeah, it was, it... I would say till early 2000s there were about 10 to 12 in the area. Is this, this is- All throughout Indiana. Perry Foglesong: And it was the same story really f- for Grindstone Charlie's as it was for Clancy's. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Once [00:21:00] the Applebee's and the l- Blake Foglesong: um- O'Charlie's ... Perry Foglesong: O'Charlie's, Logan's Road. W- when they all started coming to the, our markets, we started seeing our, our sales go down. Nate: Okay. Where did the name Grindstone Charlie's come from? Perry Foglesong: My accountant at the time came up with it, uh, for no good reason or story. Nate: The accountant- Perry Foglesong: Yeah ... Nate: just said like, "Hey, I think you should call this Grindstone Charlie's"? Perry Foglesong: Yeah, we sat down with a bunch of names and we said- And there was- ... "Okay, that's a pretty good-" Nate: Thought there was like Grindstone Blake Foglesong: City, Michigan, the, the dad Perry Foglesong: Well, they...

Well, the, the hostess podium, again, it was a restaurant that had been closed, was literally a 3,000 pound grindstone. So Jerry Graham, my CFO, said, "Oh, let's call it Grindstone Charlie's." Okay. That's not bad. That's pretty good. Nate: And there was no- It's got a nice ring to it ... but there was no Charlie? Like, there was no Charlie in the picture? Perry Foglesong: Not really, no. My dad would tell, say there was, but I think that was just him bullshitting- That's my- ... quite frankly. Nate: Okay. So you end up growing, so growing Grindstone Charlie's to 13 [00:22:00] locations as Clancy's, like it- Perry Foglesong: Declining ... Nate: was decline- Like, h- how were... Let's say a good meeting. Like, you know, if you have your quarterly meeting, how is that being presented where you're like, "Okay, positive news over here.

Negative news, we lost another soldier." Like, what, how is that, how are you guys balancing that? Perry Foglesong: Well, basically what was taking place was a lot of these locations, which we had paid for the real estate, were being sold to fund- Hmm ... the growth of the Grindstone Charlie's. And- So that money was going from one pocket to the other, and we were- Mm

growing something that at that point was super successful. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: And our average store sales back then were about 3 million a store, which back in the- For, Nate: for Grindstone Charlie's? Perry Foglesong: For Grindstone Charlie's, yeah. Yeah. So back in the '80s 90s Nate: Yeah Perry Foglesong: Those were Nate: Well, like what, what was like a Clancy's, like in the, let's say 70s Perry Foglesong: What kind of sales would they do? Nate: Yeah Perry Foglesong: Uh, 600 to 750. Nate: Okay, so this is a huge step up. You're thinking [00:23:00] like 5X at some places. Perry Foglesong: Right. Nate: That's really good. Okay. Mm-hmm. And this was a concept, again, you had this thought, right? Right. So you bring this to the table. Was this kind of your baby? Perry Foglesong: Yeah, it was. I mean, you know, I, I never am one to say, "Oh, it's mine," because it, I have had a lot of help over the years.

Yeah. And I've had a lot of good people work for me to help grow it. But, uh, I was, I was the driving force for that- Mm ... back in the '80s and '90s, for sure. Nate: How did you and your dad balance that between the thing that was his baby was now, like, coming kind of to an end, and you were selling those off to pay for your baby, who was crushing it at the time.

Like, that seems like a, an interesting family dynamic to have over Thanksgiving dinner. Perry Foglesong: Dad didn't care so long as he got his paycheck. Nate: That's, I mean, that's awesome. Like, do you, do you, did you notice that or did you like have that experience at the time where you were like... I don't know, like I feel like sometimes when you're in your 20s and 30s, maybe you can't [00:24:00] see the forest through the trees, being in it every day.

Now looking back you're like, wow, that was a pretty selfless thing that your dad did. Perry Foglesong: Yeah, I mean, a- again, I, I made sure that my dad and I, we obviously, like in the test, there are occasional conflicts between father and son. But we always ended up at the end of the day able to go home and have a, a drink together and get along well.

I think Dad saw me as, okay, here's a guy coming in that's gonna help me- Nate: Yeah ... Perry Foglesong: maintain the company and, and, uh, same thing, I, I think with Blake. Mm. You know, Blake's coming along, and Blake brings fresh perspective and new ideas, and he has got us going some different directions that had he not been here, I probably wouldn't have gone, so- Yeah

you know. Nate: How many, uh, Grindstone Ch- so 13 of them, where were they spread out throughout, was it the state of Indiana or were there some out of state? Perry Foglesong: Uh, Indiana and Ohio. Nate: And Ohio. Yeah, yeah. Where, where were you at? So Kokomo and where at in- Anderson ... Perry Foglesong: Kokomo Blake Foglesong: Speedway, Rockville Road. Perry Foglesong: Anderson Anderson. And Greenwood. Nate: So a lot of those same [00:25:00] lo- a lot of those same locations. Perry Foglesong: Yeah. Right. Yeah We were converting locations from- Wow ... Clancy's to Grindstone Charlie's. Nate: So ei- this is the late '80s and through the '90s? Perry Foglesong: Yeah. Kinda had the- Like, like Blake said, probably into the early 2000s. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, when I came on board with the company in 2010, there were still four. Nate: Okay. Um- Where did the tides turn and then Grindstone Charlie starts to run out of steam? Perry Foglesong: I would say the first real indicator, we had a store in Anderson, Indiana, that was hugely successful for a number of years, and then they announced the opening of the racetrack up there, and we had Six national competitors come in within a six-month period Nate: Like, okay, so let's, let's think about that.

You're the, in Anderson, Grindstone- We've Perry Foglesong: been there for 10 years, Nate: yeah ... you're a decade in, you're crushing it, and this is the '90s? Yeah, this Perry Foglesong: would've been the '90s. Nate: Okay. Perry Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: And then who are the, who are the competitors that come in? Perry Foglesong: Uh, Applebee's, [00:26:00] Texas Roadhouse, Outback, uh- Blake Foglesong: Montana Mike's? Perry Foglesong: Yeah, Mon- Oh, man.

I mean, yeah, Nate: that... Perry Foglesong: I mean, uh, the- there were s- it was over 2,000 restaurant seats opened up in a six-month period. Oh, Nate: gosh. Perry Foglesong: And our sa- our sales went from 3 million a year down to about 1.2. Nate: Oh, yeah. Not good. Well, this is interesting, too, because if you think through the '90s and 2000s, even a little bit in the early 2010s, and I'm curious to hear your guys' perspective, it felt like the chain was so cool.

Like- Blake Foglesong: Well, yeah, I, I feel like it's completely flipped now. Nate: Yeah Blake Foglesong: Like, growing up, when we were growing up, it was the hot thing to go to, like Applebee's or Charlie's, Grindstone Charlie's- Yeah ... on a Friday night, and now nobody wants to go to any of those types Nate: of Blake Foglesong: places. Nate: No. I remember, like, if you could, you know, save up and take your prom date to, like, Red Lobster, you were the man.

Mm-hmm. You know? And now I'm like, oh my God, I can't even... I don't know if- Chettar bread Blake Foglesong: biscuits ... Nate: yeah, like R- RIP Red Lobster. But it's like, that was, that was so cool, like, going to... 'Cause, 'cause it kinda felt like, maybe it was just an Indiana thing, but it felt like the world was coming to us, you know?

Like, oh, [00:27:00] we're getting a, I don't know whether it be like an Applebee's or a Texas Roadhouse. Like, oh, our own little slice- Yeah ... of Texas right here in small, rural Indiana, and now you're like, oh, gosh, like, no, G- Yeah ... I'd rather go to the locally-owned steakhouse, or I'd rather go to the local spot- Yeah

because it's unique and fresh and they care and they're your neighbors. Like- Yeah ... I don't know. H- have you guys seen that transition? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Big Blake Foglesong: time. Yeah, we've seen that completely flip, and that's kinda how we've wanted to rebrand our company. Yeah. 'Cause I feel like for the longest time when I first joined the company, it was like, "You guys are a chain," or they thought Grindstone Charlie's was a chain from out of state even.

And when I first came on with the company, we really tried to market ourselves as locally owned and operated- Yeah ... even when we were operating four still at the time. We've since closed down three and kinda rebranded into the newer Grindstone concepts that we've opened up, upst- uptown on the square in Noblesville- So-

and Westfield ... Nate: where was the moment where you're like, "Hey, we've gotta change the way we're doing stuff if we wanna keep going"? Perry Foglesong: 2012, I bought my dad's partner out for a substantial amount of money, and that [00:28:00] was the point we said, and Blake had been with us at that point a couple years. I said, "Okay, now it's time to start thinking about what the next step's gonna be."

Blake and I talked a lot, chatted a lot, and I was like, "Well, I think we should just, let's imagine what a Grindstone Charley's would be." We haven't done one for, what, 10, 15 years? Blake Foglesong: 1998 was when Perry Foglesong: it first- Blake Foglesong: Yeah ... came open, so Perry Foglesong: yeah. So we haven't done one for 15 years. W- if we could do one from scr you know, start over, what would we do?

So that's kind of where Public House came in. Blake Foglesong: when- I Perry Foglesong: think it was the first Blake Foglesong: one Perry Foglesong: that came in ... Blake was like, "Oh, we need to do something more chef-driven." I was like, "Yeah, I, agree with that. Let's, let's-" It was Blake Foglesong: kind of around the time when, like, Top Chef started getting hot. And there was all these, like, design-forward restaurants that we...

And we kind of saw that momentum and shift in the restaurant scene. So yeah, when we came upon Grindstone Public House downtown on the square, that was in a historic building built in 1890, original oak floors, original tin ceilings. Um, it was a restaurant space before, so it kind of [00:29:00] had the bones of a restaurant, um, when it was Eddie's Corner Cafe, which operated 20 years successfully.

Worked with Lori Everett with Phantom Design on the, on the layout and space and, uh, construction, and it's really kind of turned out to be the perfect blend of old meets new. Nate: Yeah. So when you opened Grindstone Public House, how many Grindstone Charlie's did you have? Blake Foglesong: We still had four at that point, yeah. Nate: How quickly did you real- 'cause I'm sure it was probably more expensive to open a Grindstone Public House than a Grindstone Charlie's, I would have to assume. Perry Foglesong: Nah, I mean, the, the Charlie's were all built ground up, so a lot of the stores we're doing now, we're, we're taking existing space and just- Nate: Yeah Perry Foglesong: refurbishing or- Okay ... refreshing, so. Nate: So how quickly did you guys realize that, like, "Hey, we're onto something. Like, Grindstone Public House is, is rocking and rolling"? Blake Foglesong: I'd say pretty quickly. I mean, from a review standpoint, it felt like the feedback immediately has been positive. Obviously, we had a great name for ourselves, being in the Noblesville market since 1965, so [00:30:00] people were really excited that we were doing something new in town.

It had been a long time since we'd been- And from a financial Perry Foglesong: standpoint, the, the, I mean, sales were mi- exceeded... My expectation was probably half of what we opened at. Oh, Blake Foglesong: that's incredible then. Perry Foglesong: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we opened a lot stronger than I thought. It Blake Foglesong: was, it was, it was doing well enough during COVID.

We... There was a, a clothing shop on the other side of the space, which we've actually taken over and expanded the restaurant. We opened it with 120 seats, and it was just busy all the time, right from the start. And, uh, during COVID, we took over the men's clothing shop that was next door, retrofitted bathrooms, have private event space upstairs, which we do a lot of wedding rehearsals and private events.

Um, but the restaurant's now 250 seats, which is, which is great. Nate: Well, was there any, like, re-education to the customers of like, "Hey, this is different than Grindstone Charlie's"? Like, did you get any feedback of like, oh, they just, Perry Foglesong: they, they- I've never really gotten that from anybody. I mean- Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: I think- Perry Foglesong: I think, I think actually even the, the Grindstone Charlie's in Noblesville had a really good [00:31:00] reputation when we decided to close it. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Was that hard? The reason we closed was the... Well, yeah, it was got cl- Every time you close a store, it's like losing a child. But, uh- Walgreens came and made us a financial offe- offer on that property we just couldn't back away from. Nate: Oh, yeah. Perry Foglesong: I mean, it's like, okay. Nate: It's like, yeah. Do you get what I... Perry Foglesong: We'll come back someday. Nate: It's so hard- Yeah ... because you think of, like, economics and, like, what makes sense for the business, and also, like, this is a part of your guys' family. You know? Right. Like, you... This is a... I mean, 'cause that would've been... Was that location the original Clancy's? Yeah, Perry Foglesong: that's... No, that was the original Grindstone Jerrie's. Nate: Oh, the original Grindstone Cl- Yeah. Okay. Blake Foglesong: And that, that was operating till 2004- Nate: Yeah ... Blake Foglesong: in town. Nate: Wow. Blake Foglesong: And yeah, Walgreens came along and made them an offer and, like, we could... I think you said we could sit there for another 20 years and not make this much money. So it's like- Yeah ... you gotta take it when you can get it.

It's Nate: called an offer you can't refuse. That's exactly right. And, and obviously, and then to help use that to pour into- Other projects ... some of these newer concepts. Sure. Yeah. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: So [00:32:00] after Grindstone Public House- Blake Foglesong: Mm-hmm ... Nate: what was the next concept you Blake Foglesong: guys put out? That was Grindstone on the Monon in Westfield, um, 31 and 32.

Uh, we were able to... Our dad was able to buy that piece of land up there for, through Holliday Properties. Perry Foglesong: Well, actually, that story is my wife and I, on Saturday afternoons, like to go out for what we call a left, right, left. We just take off in the car and we'll... She'll say, "Take a left, take a right, take a left."

Yeah. We just end up, we ended up at Grand Park on a Sunday afternoon, and it was like, there was, like, 40,000 people out there. Nate: A zoo, I bet. Yeah. And Perry Foglesong: I was like, "We got, I've, we've gotta find a location around here." Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: This is too, too good. Nate: Well, Blake Foglesong: what Nate: year is this? Perry Foglesong: What, two, 2018, 2017? Blake Foglesong: This is 20... Yeah. We had actually signed, uh, we had actually bought that piece of ground before we opened Grindstone Public House and- Oh

we came upon Grindstone Public House and just got that open quicker because it was a, it was a retrofitted building. So we kind of were [00:33:00] working on two projects simultaneously and did both. Nate: So even before knowing that the first one was gonna be a hit, you're like, "Yeah, let's go for number two." Blake Foglesong: Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So that op- uh, Grindstone Public House opened t- July 2018, and then July of 2019 was when Grindstone on the Monon opened. Nate: Now, this is interesting. Um, I'd be curious. I'm sure we're gonna get some, um, restaurant entrepreneurs, maybe people that, like, want to open concepts and are trying to figure out how to bring their culinary dreams to life.

What advice do you have for first-timers? So this is a third generation. You know, you guys have been doing this for, uh, an extensive amount of time. But if you were planning it or giving advice to a, a first-time food founder, how would you start to open a restaurant? Blake Foglesong: I would start just by working every position in the restaurant, knowing every position, working with a team, knowing and really nailing down what you wanna do from a concept level perspective. Nate: Yeah. Blake Foglesong: But ask questions. Make sure [00:34:00] financially you're set because- Cash is king. You don't wanna run out of money. You gotta make payroll, you gotta make food bills, all these other little things as well. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: I think it'd be really hard to start out today because the financial requirements are- Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: I, you and I- So you would, you would have to have somebody as a financial backer Nate: I just had Scott Fadness, uh, the mayor of Fishers on, and he was talking about how it's tough because, you know, if you think of where you wanna put a restaurant, it is like at the intersection of 32 and 31, but it, that's not, that's not first time food founder money.

You know? Yeah. Like, you gotta have a little bit of financial backing to- Right ... to get that property. So he's like starting... Like downtown Fishers, very expensive to come in there and start a concept that you have no idea if it's gonna succeed or not. Yeah. So I almost wonder if it's like, you know, one, you're either looking for kind of like the OG days of, of Clancy's.

The towns that might not have a full on concept yet where you can probably get some cheaper real estate and build out your- Yeah. Perry Foglesong: I mean, I think that's [00:35:00] smart. Yeah. And actually, there's a guy, uh, locally that's done that. Nate: Who? Perry Foglesong: Uh, the guy that owns Foxglove. Blake Foglesong: Oh, yeah. I was gonna say. That, that was who. That was- Yeah.

Chet Burgess- Yes ... has done that with Bungie's and Foxgarden. Nate: That was actually- But Blake Foglesong: yeah, I would look at towns like Pendleton and Fortville- Nate: Yeah ... and Blake Foglesong: all these areas that- Nate: That is who they compared it to ... are kind of growing. They said he had the gr- he started in Fortville, and then, like, there's one in Lapel and some other places up there, and it's like, build your concepts there.

Or the other option I've been seeing a lot is food truck. Like, start by nailing a food truck. You know, you can get one of those up and going for, I don't know, way less than a full on restaurant, for sure. Right. Build out your concept there, and then, you know, hopefully you can graduate into a space. It's very interesting to think about.

Mm-hmm. But you guys, so you have these first two coming to life, both Grindstone, and you get those open, you expand then during COVID. Uh, take us through the next progression of you... I mean, you still, at this point, do you still have a Clancy's open in Ohio? Perry Foglesong: Yeah, Blake Foglesong: we do. It's still Perry Foglesong: open there. Yep. Today. Nate: Still open today.

So it was open this whole time. [00:36:00] Blake Foglesong: Oh, yeah. Nate: So you had- Blake Foglesong: We're actually up in sales during the pandemic on that one. Nate: Hey. The drive-throughs Blake Foglesong: were busy. 'Cause Perry Foglesong: of the drive-through. Same thing Nate: in our town. Why, why is it not made s- like why has it made sense to keep that concept going but n- none of the rest of them? Perry Foglesong: Uh, building's been paid for, for 30 plus years and it still has large sales. Nate: Okay. So it still makes money. Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Still makes money. Still got, Blake Foglesong: still got a large following in the town. Nate: Here in Indiana, chances are you've heard the name Keller & Keller, and there's a reason so many Hoosiers trust them when something goes wrong.

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That's the number 2keller.com. Keller & Keller, right here for Indiana when it matters most. Now let's get back into the episode. I don't know. Sometimes when you're doing a lot of different concepts where, you know, there you're probably... Like, the training, the staff, the ordering, uh, it's different than what you would be serving at a, you know, one of the Grindstone restaurants.

Like, is it ever, I don't wanna say distracting, but hard to balance, like, how to run one of those efficiently versus how to run a Grindstone Public House? Blake Foglesong: It's a little bit different. I mean, we had a guy that, he actually just retired. He was running it for 30 years. Perry Foglesong: Yeah. And the guy that oversees it- And the guy that oversees it

has been with us for Blake Foglesong: 33. Oh. So the two people who have been in charge of that restaurant have been in charge of it for 30 plus years. So it goes back to that first leg of the stool, right? Nate: The people, the Perry Foglesong: team. Yeah. You gotta have the, you have to have the right people. Even the General manager over there.

He's relatively new, but I think he's been with us, what? Eight years, nine years? Yep. Nate: [00:38:00] Relatively new, and he's been there about a decade. Yeah. That's crazy. Perry Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: When did you sell the, the Noblesville Grindstone Charlie's? Blake Foglesong: 2018? That was 2004. Nate: Oh, 2004. Yes. So do you ha- you still have the one in Kokomo. Blake Foglesong: Yep. Nate: So you had four restaurants at that point? Perry Foglesong: Yeah, we had Lafayette. Blake Foglesong: We had Lafayette, Speedway, and then on Rockville Road. So we had four when I came on with the company, and- Mm-hmm ... I kinda started off as a manager in the Kokomo location. Then I became district manager for the f- all four Grindstone Charlie's. Okay. So that was like 2013, 2014. Okay. Nate: And Blake Foglesong: actually, our sales started going up at the Grindstone Charlie's. We were up like 20% year back to back to back. So- Why Nate: do you think that? Blake Foglesong: You know, maybe just a little bit of fresh blood, fresh ideas, fresh juice that I could've been bringing into the concepts, a little bit of fresh life. I'm not giving all myself credit, but we

It was just more... And it's obviously a team effort, but- Yeah ... we were up in sales, and things were growing, and that's kinda when we were like, "Hey, let's start growing again and looking for a new spot." Nate: Yeah. Okay, so what was the next concept? Like, take me through the timeline of how you got to where we are today. Blake Foglesong: So during COVID, um, we had been getting approached. We had signed the deal [00:39:00] for the food hall to bring Clancy's back, uh, with, uh, within the food hall at, uh, with Hendricks. Nate: Yeah. Blake Foglesong: And, uh, we'd signed that deal, and we're also simultaneously talking with them about doing what became the Fountain Room at the corner of Mass Ave and Carrollton. Nate: Which food hall? Blake Foglesong: Uh, The Garage. Nate: At The Garage. Okay, that's what I thought. Yep. Yeah. Uh, so that was... Oh my gosh, that's crazy. That's already been open for- Blake Foglesong: It's been five years ... five years. Um, which is, which is amazing. That's- Time flies ... Nate: that's nuts. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause you guys are... I remember going in there and being like, uh...

It felt like Clancy's was, like, such an old Indiana brand, but I had never been to one before, and so that was like a r- is that, like, the similar menu that was Blake Foglesong: at- No, so it's kind of our, our modern-day Clancy's Hamburgers- Yeah ... uh, version of the concept. But we had, we had done the Noblesville Street Dance for years and done, um, you know, served burgers, fries, shakes at the street dance up in town, and we had been getting approached all the time, like, with people within Noblesville, like, "Bring it back to Indy.

Bring it back to Noblesville." And this was a, a cheap and easy way to bring it back. Nate: [00:40:00] Yeah. Blake Foglesong: Obviously, opening a concept in the middle of the pandemic was, was tough and challenging. Um, we almost didn't do it when the riots and everything were happening downtown. We were like, "Should we try to get out of this deal?"

Um, and ended up opening it, and it was super succ- uh, successful, and the hotel opened super successful. Perry Foglesong: You talking about Fountain Room? Blake Foglesong: Uh, no, no. We had just got- just Clancy's- Perry Foglesong: Okay ... Blake Foglesong: in general at the time. Yeah. And, uh, we were in talks with Hendricks to do, um, the corner of Mass Ave and Carrollton, and originally, we were gonna do, like, a Grindstone Public House or a Grindstone concept, and it just didn't feel like it was the right fit At the time, so we wanted to do something more upscale and, and unique for the area, and that became the Fountain Room. Nate: Where are you guys getting inspiration for these concepts? Like, you talked about going down to Applebee's when you had four, four stores and they had five. You talked about going to, uh, Au Cheval in, in Chicago- Sure ... and getting a little inspiration there. For somewhere like the Fountain Room- Perry Foglesong: We- The original idea started as a Wisconsin supper club. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. So [00:41:00] Wisconsin style supper club. When we were in talks with Hendrix- Nate: What does, what does that mean, a Wisconsin style supper club? Blake Foglesong: So it's high class atmosphereal, but high, high class atmosphere, but affordable cuisine. So everything from prime rib, Friday fish, um, all these old- Manhattans ... Manhattans. Oh, yeah.

Uh, Wisconsin style Manhattans, which are great. Brandy style. And, um, that was kind of the original idea, and then we kind of melded it into this Chicago age, Jazz Age steakhouse as well. So- Yeah ... we kind of took the best of both worlds. But him and I went and di- up and did, uh, kind of a tour of Wisconsin, and went to Milwaukee and Beloit and some of these other small towns that've had these restaurants open for 40, 50 years- and kind of got a lot of inspiration from that. Nate: The idea of a supper club is just cool to me. You know, like, oh yeah, we're, you know, the, the supper club. I love that you guys, uh, on the, the, like, subtext here is like, "The Fountain Room embraces supper club flair without the formality. Blending fine dining with unabashed fun."

I Blake Foglesong: love that. Yeah, we didn't really want it to be, like, a super stuffy style space. [00:42:00] Um, we sent our designer a bunch of inspiration photos from, um, a lot of different restaurants in Chicago and Wisconsin. And, um, you know, the, the, the timelessness feel of the concept really evokes when you walk in, uh, the timeless millwork details.

And, uh, we were named by People Magazine Open Tables one of the 50 most beautiful restaurants in America. Nate: Like, that's crazy. Yeah. One of the 50 most beautiful restaurants in America? Blake Foglesong: Yep. Nate: Like, that's just wild to me. Like w- what level of detail had to go into creating that? I mean, how did it all come together? Blake Foglesong: Well, it was about two years of work from the time that we toured the original space to the time we opened. Um, but again, it's a lot of detail. It's a lot of thought processing, ma- making sure that tiles are gonna look good. Um, every- It's a lot of Perry Foglesong: money. Nate: Yeah, right. Blake Foglesong: This is Block- this is Blockbuster budget.

This is $4 million worth of- worth of, build-out. Nate: I thought I was gonna have Perry Foglesong: a stroke ... Nate: were there ever like, uh, like if you were, uh... Like I always hear stories of people who like plan their wedding, and it's like, you know, one day you're like talking about [00:43:00] like the, the shades of white that the napkin's gonna be.

Like, do we go like pearl or do we do- Blake is, Perry Foglesong: Blake is that guy. Yeah. Nate: It's like, were there a lot of like random choices for things? Like, everything has to be intentional, right? Blake Foglesong: Yeah, everything from the silverware to the china to the uniforms, um, all those small details, and that's- my favorite part of the process- Oh

is picking out all that style of stuff. As my dad would say, I don't have cheap taste when it comes to- I know, I- ... plates and silverwares. Perry Foglesong: I don't really care. Nate: Well, what was- I think I was gonna say, was there like a, uh, was there like a moment where you like get a bill for something and you're like, "We spent-" Perry Foglesong: Oh, that happens Nate: all the time

"$15 grand on-" I think that still happens to this Blake Foglesong: day. Perry Foglesong: That, that's still going on. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: Is there a specific- We just Blake Foglesong: got pretender coasters yesterday. He's like, "How much are those gonna cost?" Nate: Yeah, right. Blake Foglesong: $1,500. Nate: In coasters. Yeah. That's crazy. Uh, is there a specific design accent within The Fountain Room that you were just like, "Chef's kiss.

This is incredible." Like, it just came together perfectly that like maybe the, the non-art consuming eye, like I'd [00:44:00] probably just like, "Oh, be whatever," but there's- Blake Foglesong: Probably the most talked about piece are, are either the restrooms there, which the wallpaper on the restrooms are, are kind of funky and cool.

There's some cool mint, uh, vintage men's wallets in the, in the men's room. Uh, we've had like three or four stolen. Um, but also in the ladies room, there's kind of a lot of really cool, um, um, wallpaper. And also, uh, upstairs there's a glass jars of baby head dolls, which is a big talked about piece, uh, between customers. Nate: Where, where were... Uh, in, in the design process were you like, "Yes, baby head." Like, Blake Foglesong: like- I think, I think there's a lot of trust- I was surprised Perry Foglesong: to see those show Blake Foglesong: up actually. I think there's a lot of trust within our, our design team, which we use a, a great design firm, locally based Fahnemann. And, uh, sometimes they have ideas and you're like, "Is this gonna work?"

And it, and it, it... I feel like it all comes together at the end though. So there's- Quite frankly- ... when I Perry Foglesong: saw the wallpaper when we were under construction, I said, "We're gonna have to get... We're gonna have to paint over that." I was like- It's too weird for me. It, Blake Foglesong: it's like the men's room has like [00:45:00] men's acrobats.

Yeah, I was like, "Why?" And he was like, he was like, "Take this down." I Perry Foglesong: heard that. I Nate: mean, that's sometimes like culture and like- art and what- Perry Foglesong: It's like- It's like above and beyond ... I'm, I'm a 66-year-old dude. I can't base decisions based on me 'cause that's not the demographic we're appealing to. Nate: Yeah. Yeah, has that been interesting to kind of, uh, like you talk about 2012 is where you kinda went back in and said, "We're gonna, you know, go out and grow again."

You were probably been in your 50s. Perry Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: Has that been interesting to kind of, um, have that, you know, young vigor again and, and learn what people think is cool in 2026? Perry Foglesong: Yeah, I mean, it keeps you a, a little bit younger at heart, I guess. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Doesn't help the body, but it keeps you younger at Nate: heart. Wow. Okay, so as you guys think through, um, The Pretender- opening up this summer in Noblesville, what can people expect? Blake Foglesong: Cool, low-lit atmosphere. Um, but also the food menu's gonna be really fun and exciting and nostalgic and retro. Um, we're doing, you know, cheese [00:46:00] fondue, pigs in a blanket. Um, we have- Deviled eggs ... deviled eggs. So, um, it will have a full menu, full bar.

Um, a really robust whiskey selection, high-end tequilas. Um, there'll be some smoked cocktails. But really it's a big music immersive listening experience, and that's what you're gonna- Perry Foglesong: It's not necessarily- The vibe that we're gonna get ... I've had people ask me, "Is there gonna be dancing?" It's not dancing.

Yeah. There's no dance floor. It's, it's enjoy- I, I'm a big audiophile. I love music. Blake does, too. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Uh, it's more about enjoying the, music. Nate: Yeah. How, what got you guys so into music? Perry Foglesong: My mom was a music major at IU. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: She played 14 different instruments. Nate: No way. Perry Foglesong: Yeah, she was a brilliant musician, and, uh, I inherited a small piece of that.

Unfortunately, my father's voice. But, you know, I was, I was- Blake Foglesong: Yeah. So- Perry Foglesong: Always loved, it's always been- Yeah ... I just grew up, every time, every time Blake's at my house- there's music on. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, I just grew up with him. A big Beatles fan, big [00:47:00] Nirvana, big Guns N' Roses, that early '90s style music.

And I'm, uh, kinda morphed into loving all genres, but I, you know, love '70s rock as well. Wow. I think you'll hear a lot of that stuff at The Pretender. We named the concept after the 1976 Jackson Browne song, which will be 50 this year. So, um- Nate: Look at that ... Blake Foglesong: that was his idea. I think it's a great name.

It's kind of got a fun ring to it. Nate: Hey. Perry Foglesong: I will say The Pretender, my wife Jill said, "Why are you guys not doing this location? It's, it's close, it's gonna be relatively inexpensive," which that wasn't true, but. Uh, so then I, I said to Blake, "What do you think?" He's excited. He threw out the hi-fi cocktail lounge idea, which I'd never heard of, but I thought, "Man, that's cool.

I like that," being a, a music guy And, uh, then I came up with the name. So it's, a- again, every, every project- Nate: Yeah ... Perry Foglesong: is a team effort. Nate: Now, how cool is this? You bring the idea for a hi-fi cocktail lounge, and you're like, "Oh, I haven't heard of that." When you bring the [00:48:00] idea of a casual... What was it called? Perry Foglesong: Casual theme restaurant. Nate: Casual theme restaurant to your dad back in the day, like, that's kind of like a, a symbolic piece of, of Clancy's Hospitality is- Yeah ... you- fresh blood comes in, brings an idea you've never heard of, and, and Pops says, "Let's run with it and let's do the dang thing." Yep. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Basically. And Blake Foglesong: it's probably gonna be the same for me 30 years later. Nate: Yeah, right? And you gotta w- it's gonna be, like, a lo-fi cocktail lounge, supper club scene. Yeah, there'll be something coming up. Yeah. That's, uh, that's super, super cool. When, when does it open? Uh, July. In July. Yep. What goes into opening, like, a sp- like, like, do you just, like, throw the doors open one day and say, "We're open.

Come on in," or, or how do you, like, kinda start to warm up before things really hit the- Blake Foglesong: I will say- ... the fan ... there's nothing like opening a restaurant. There's, there's chaos, there's, you know, there's 12-hour days. But, uh, for us, it's usually two weeks of training. So we'll, um, we'll take the, over the space, which will be finished early July, and then do two weeks of training, and then we'll do soft open invites.

So we'll do friends and family, people like yourself coming [00:49:00] in to experience the space hopefully and- Hey, I'm in ... uh, give a nice plug on Instagram. But, um- Perry Foglesong: Yeah, they're pra- it's basically VIP practice. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, it's VIP practice dinners, getting the space ready, and showcasing the space, and then, um, then we'll open to the public shortly after that.

Nice. Perry Foglesong: Then we'll open on a slow day. We'll open on a Monday or Tuesday and- Yep ... and try to soft open all the way to the weekend. Nate: What's the surprisingly the hardest part? Like, i- obviously you think about opening up, like money, you know, that whole piece, staff. But is there a piece to opening a new restaurant that you're like, you wouldn't believe it, but, like, I don't know, no one...

Managing bathroom lines or something, like something crazy that's like, you wouldn't believe how hard this part of it is. Perry Foglesong: I think the hardest part's just making sure you have the right team in place. Blake Foglesong: Huh. Yeah. Perry Foglesong: I've had, I've had, I had a specific restaurant where a month before I opened, I had the general manager quit. Nate: Oh. Perry Foglesong: And that restaurant opening turned into a disaster. Turns out that- 'Cause I did that, Blake Foglesong: I- ... I think you know pretty quickly after an opening if it is the right team. Like, we actually opened the Fountain Room and the [00:50:00] line was out the door. It was super successful. The buzz was there right away, but I think, think we knew pretty quickly that it wasn't the right chef, wasn't the right manager, management team in place, and we had to make some changes there, and now it's running better than ever, profit better than ever.

But- Yeah ... um, yeah, I f- I think it is all about the people with that company. A Nate: l- a lot of people say that the restaurant business is really hard to make, make money. Like, they say it's hard. It's like, you know, razor-thin margins. It is. It is. Yeah. And in a, in a time like that, but it seems that you guys are pouring more into that, and this has been, like, a family legacy in this business.

How can- Other restaurant owners or people that are in the space, how can you make a solid business when in hospitality? Perry Foglesong: When I figure that out, I'll write my own book and sell Blake Foglesong: it. There you go. Nate: Okay. Blake Foglesong: We're still thinking about that right Nate: now. Yeah. Like, what are the things that go into it? Like, if you think about...

I mean, I don't know. I- as I think about is get people in the door, give them a good experience. But, like, I've talked to Martha Hoover about it, and she was like, "Yeah, we [00:51:00] were weighing our waste and, like, trying to cut down on this, that, and the other." And, like, there's all these, like- I think Blake Foglesong: the big thing for us, especially when I joined the company, is just the technology side of restaurants has improved so much.

Um, we use a company called MarginEdge, and for inventory management, yeah, we're tracking waste. We're tracking all these things. Uh, most people don't realize that restaurants are lucky if they make 10 cents on the dollar of every sale. Um- Nate: What? Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Well, probably less than that, actually. Blake Foglesong: Sometimes less than that, so, uh- Nate: No way. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: Less than 10? Blake Foglesong: You got food co- you got food cost at usually 30 to 35% of a restaurant. You got labor cost at 30- 30 to 35%, and then the other mix is a, is a blend of- Overhead ... paper goods, overhead- Rent ... rent, utilities, all these things. What? Um, so I think from the outside looking in, it is a t- it is a business that most people think you can make a lot of money, and then they get into it, and they're like, "Wow, this is, this is tough." Nate: That is wild. I didn't know it was... I thought it maybe be like 30, 40% or something. Yeah. 10-ish? Perry Foglesong: Yep. Nate: That's nuts. Perry Foglesong: 10's good. [00:52:00] Yeah. I mean, if you can get 10%, you're doing well. Nate: Yeah. Wow. What's, like, the most profitable kind of restaurant b- Like, if you thought from fast food, double drive-through hamburgers to, you know, more of, like, fast casual sit-down, what are the businesses or, or food hospitality things that you see, like, making...

that are doing very well? Perry Foglesong: Well, I mean, our, our Little Clancy's over in Sydney, Ohio, if you wanna look at continuously profiting- Yeah ... has been profitable every year- Yeah ... for how many years? I mean, it Nate: probably helps too, having, like, the- Yeah ... the building paid Blake Foglesong: off too. Yeah, the building paid off. And you're like, that takes- I think the real estate piece for a restaurant matters so much in terms of the lease you sign to whether you own the building or own the real estate. Perry Foglesong: Wow. I mean, The Fountain Room has actually turned out to be a very profitable, uh- Blake Foglesong: Yeah, The Perry Foglesong: Fountain Blake Foglesong: Room- ... beach barbecue for us ... is our, is our probably most profitable restaurant. Well- And it's because it's got that high dollar check average. Nate: Yeah. Blake Foglesong: And we're only open from 4:00 PM to 10:00 PM during the week, and then on the weekends we- So we have a smaller Perry Foglesong: management staff. Nate: And, and it's like you think about that too, uh, you're not just selling [00:53:00] the food on the plate. You're selling what's on the walls, what's in your ears. Like, the whole vibe helps raise that aspect versus, like, you know, the Chipotle down the street where it's, like, in and out, you know, slap the rice on it.

Like, you're, you're, you're there for the burrito versus there for the experience. Yeah. That's a really interesting piece as I've, like- Talked to different, uh, you know, restaurant owners. We had, uh, Scott Wise in, and he talked about the rise and fall of Scotty's Brewhouse. Oh, yeah. And it's like one of the craziest stories I've ever heard.

I think I Perry Foglesong: actually heard that. Yeah. We listened to it on the way to Chicago. Nate: Yeah, we listened to it. It's great. It, it was... I mean, it's wild. And you guys, think about, like, your story through the, you know, since 1965, could have been, you know, Clancy's, it starts to take a turn for the worst, and you don't innovate and, and come up with this new concept to, like, get you through to the next, the third generation of Clancy's Hospitality.

Mm-hmm. Like, that's very, very, I mean, pretty cool when you think about it. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, I think the thing for us is we've been continually been able to adapt and, you know, like- Evolve ... we're s- and [00:54:00] we're survivors, and you, you know, you t- you told the story- Yeah ... of, of Scotty's, and Scott was a fraternity m- a m- brother of mine at Ball State, so I've, I've known him for a l- Oh, no way

I've known him for a long time, and he was kind of a, I don't wanna say mentor when I was in college, but he was one of the reasons why I wanted to get in the restaurant business. I thought he was a brilliant marketer- Yeah ... brilliant guy. His- And then to see the downfall of Scotty's, uh, happen, you know, was sad for me 'cause I was a big fan of the concepts as well.

Oh, Nate: dude. Okay, so I'm, uh, this is first knowledge to all the listeners out there. I'm doing the, um, the Burger Bash with ClusterTruck. Like, they pick... It's me, Connor Daly, and Kevin Bowen, who are all doing, like, our own burger, and, uh, 20% of the proceeds goes to, uh, the Simon Cancer Center here in Indy. And so they let me design my own burger there that's gonna be on the menu for a month, and my burger was...

Do you remember the Schumann Special from Scotty's? Blake Foglesong: Peanut butter. Nate: Jalapeno- Jalapenos ... bacon. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I, like, remade that for, uh, for the ClusterTruck Burger Bash month, and I cannot wait. I'm gonna order like 75 of these things 'cause it was just like... It was so [00:55:00] iconic, the loaded waffle fries. And then to see it, like, one, when it started to go downhill after they sold, and then two, when it, like, went out of business, I was so sad.

Mm-hmm. That was my spot. But it is interesting and cool, like small world, very Indiana, that you were in the same fraternity as Scott- Yeah ... and, you know, getting to see a little bit of that and learn from that, and then, you know, es- especially as you also got to see your dad and your grandpa be a part of this. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, I think hopefully I've learned from a lot of great m- mentors and e- experiences and, you know, we, we definitely, I've definitely learned you don't wanna grow too quick within the restaurant business, and things can definitely turn pretty sour if that happens. Nate: Yeah. Blake Foglesong: Um, so hopefully I've learned from the best, uh, between, you know, my dad and grandfather and then Scott. Nate: Yeah, I do think the piece of it that is really interesting is being a savvy businessperson when it comes to the real estate side of things, too. Blake Foglesong: Mm-hmm. Nate: You know, like, if you can work those, if you can be like one part real estate developer and then one part restaurateur, I think, uh, we had the Battistas, uh- Bluebeard?

Yeah. Bluebeard, yes. They, Bluebeard, the, uh, bu- they were in, and, and they have been, like, [00:56:00] instrumental in real estate from, like, you know, what they're doing with Bluebeard and I think it's CanCan and, like, all these different concepts of developing real estate and being... Like, I think it's, like, a good balance there to really succeed. Perry Foglesong: Right. Nate: When you guys think about the legacy of Clancy's Hospitality, let's say when it's the sixth generation- When the sixth generation is looking back, what do you hope they know, remember, and think about w- the work you're doing today? Perry Foglesong: The reason I'm in this business is because I get a kick out of seeing people happy.

I like to have people come in, have a great experience, leave with a smile on their face. When you talk about hospitality, that's, that's me and, and my family. We're very social. We've, we love to entertain, and I think that's reflective in what we've done in the business. And, you know, hopefully we're remembered for setting a good foundation for the future. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, I would say the same for me. You know, I just truly love the, the restaurant business, love making people happy. Um, I [00:57:00] think if there's a concept that I truly love, and I hope if there's a legacy-type restaurant that we've created within In- the Indianapolis market, it's The Fountain Room. So I hope that restaurant is around for another 30, 40, 50 years and could become like a St.

Elmo-style steakhouse that's- Yeah ... been around. So that's, that's the, that was the goal in creating it, and, uh, hopefully it's still around for a long time. Nate: How did you guys name The Fountain Room? Blake Foglesong: There's a, there's a room in the hotel called the Lab Room, and it's where they made the Coca-Cola products back in the 1930s.

And we didn't really like the name the Lab Room. We thought it sounded weird, so our, um, a graphic design firm threw out The Fountain Room. And we said, "That's the name. That's, that's it." And really tied the whole concept around the art deco-ness of the hotel and tried to imagine if you were working at the Coca-Cola factory in the 1930s, that you, if you're getting off work, you're g- gonna get a steak dinner at this place.

So that was kind of the goal and inspiration of the concept. Perry Foglesong: That's- One of the hardest things about opening a new restaurant is coming up with the name. Blake Foglesong: It is, Perry Foglesong: yeah. Blake and I have come up, [00:58:00] h- had several fistic, not fisticuffs, but we've had several arguments over names over the years. Nate: Yeah. What's, what's the best name that never came to life? Blake Foglesong: We have a concept that we'd love to do. It's, it's called Rosenels, and it's named after- Rosenels ... Rosenels. It's named after my grandma, which I think would be super cool, so- Like a Southern Perry Foglesong: concept. Blake Foglesong: Super- Oh ... fine dining Southern that we, we wanna do within a development here in Indianapolis. Yeah. Right. Nate: All right.

If you're lis- that, that leads us perfectly into the next question. This question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homeisjchart.com. Maybe if there's a future development that could use a great Southern fine dining spot, like, we could make that match happen.

Um, my question for you guys, why do you call Indiana home? Blake Foglesong: Well, for me, it's Hoosier hospitality through and through. You know, obviously born here in Noblesville. We love living here. Cost of living is great. Um, I think we do such a great job compared to, um, other markets, and the city's growing. Perry Foglesong: I've been in Noblesville since I was four years old, [00:59:00] and, uh, actually the house I li- live in, I learned to swim in the backyard when I was five.

There was a pool then, and Noblesville's will always be home to me. Yeah. Indiana's home. Yeah. Second place is Tennessee, but Indiana's always home. Nate: Yeah. Uh, we had, um- Mayor Jensen on the podcast, uh, not too long ago, and he, uh, he is, like, the ultimate champion for Noblesville, I feel like. In, in America's hometown and, like, this whole vibe and, and it's very true.

Like, I feel everyone that's, like, diehard Noblesville just loves it so much and has nothing but great things to say, uh, about Noblesville. So that, that's awesome. Um, you guys said that you were avid music fans, big part of your, your lives. Where's your favorite place to see a show here in, in Indiana? Blake Foglesong: For me, it's Ruoff.

Just being from Noblesville, first concert was there when I was 14 or 15 years old, and I make... I've seen Dave Matthews Band 20 years in a row out there or something like that. Um, so me, it's Ruoff, but I also love shows at, [01:00:00] uh, the Vogue over here. Yeah. There's some great shows over Perry Foglesong: there. I've spoiled myself with a really good, um, uh, stereo system at my house.

I don't leave very often when it comes to listening to music. Nate: Yo, you're just... You're, you're jamming out at home. I love that. He's Blake Foglesong: jamming out at home with a cocktail. Perry Foglesong: Every, Nate: every Perry Foglesong: night. Nate: There we go. That's fun. Blake, you're an avid golfer, right? Blake Foglesong: I am. Yeah. My fiance, actually, played golf at Marion- Oh ... so she beats me all the time. Nate: There you go. Blake Foglesong: But I'm getting better and better. Um, we do tons of golf outings for work and- Yeah ... stuff like that, too, so. Nate: Where, uh, where's your favorite place to play? Blake Foglesong: Uh, I like Sagamore, uh, Hawthorne. I've got some buddies who have the membership up there, so I'm playing up there during the summer, you know, once a week, twice a week. Nate: That's awesome. Uh, if you guys could create any concept anywhere in the state of Indiana, snap your fingers, budget doesn't matter. Like, the economics don't matter. Like, we're living in a fantasy world. Where would you put it? And what would it be? Blake Foglesong: Well, we talked about the Southern concept a little bit.

We'd, we would love to [01:01:00] be a part of the, maybe the Traction Yards development, the old Circle Center, uh, development- Oh ... that's upcoming. Um, so that could be a possibility we'd, we'd love to do. But if there's a concept that we haven't done or haven't thought about, I, I love really good Mexican. I think a Mexican is a, would be a great concept somewhere.

Yeah. Perry Foglesong: I think the s- I think the Southern concept will be the next thing we do. Nate: Oh, re- Yeah ... so this is reality. I was saying, like, you know, it could be any- like, you could put something at the top of Salesforce Tower. They're like, "Hey, this, the Circle Center development" Blake Foglesong: I will say there's a lack of, of when, you know, when you, when you travel, there's, there's rooftop bars, and Indy does not have a lot of rooftop bars or- Nate: No Blake Foglesong: rooftop bars, which- Nate: Was there, like, a law on- We, we Blake Foglesong: need to change that or something ... Nate: was there, like, a law or something against serving alcohol on roofs? Like, I feel like there has to be a reason that we have just- Blake Foglesong: Yeah ... Nate: or is it just 'cause, like, it's only a few months out of the year? So- I Perry Foglesong: think that's part.

It's probably more the economics of putting the, the money into it when you can only use it maybe five months a year. Nate: Oh, dude, I can just, like, envision it, literally. Hear me out. The Broad Ripple strip with, like, two story [01:02:00] Nashville-style honky-tonks would just be so sick. I would love it. I would love that, too.

Like, rooftop bars, hanging out. Oh, the local, like, the, the village association would hate it. Like, everyone, I feel like the diehard Broad Ripple people don't want that. Like, they don't wanna build up and have new developments like that, but I think that would just be so cool, like, kind of a little Broadway-type feel in Broad Ripple.

Yeah. Perry Foglesong: I think, I think if I could do, I w- I've given a little thought, I would do a- another restaurant in Westfield if I could find the right location. Nate: Oh. Yeah. Well, I mean, they just did a whole big, uh, development in downtown Westfield. Like, it's- Yeah ... it's a whole vibe now. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, and there's more coming. So Westfield's the fastest growing city in the state right now.

Yeah. Nate: Uh, what is it- Blake Foglesong: That's, that's our, one of our most profitable restaurants, too, right there. That- So we'd love to do more there ... Nate: at Park Street, like, that little restaurant row on, on Park Street is like- Yeah, it's a cool little Blake Foglesong: area. Nate: Yeah Yeah. Like, little houses that are turned into- Blake Foglesong: Nyla's Italian House.

Yeah. And, uh, there's a, there's a new pizza place, Black Sheep Pizza, that just opened up that's really good, Nate: too. Which is, is that out of Columbus, I think? Blake Foglesong: Yeah, they're o- actually owned by Upland. [01:03:00] Nate: Oh. Yeah. No way. Yeah. Okay, so when you guys are not eating at your own spots or not dining in your own establishments, where are some spots around the state that you just love? Blake Foglesong: So I like Bluebeard a lot. Bluebeard's one of my favorite spots, and, you know, I think obviously the Hughes group does a good job, St. Elmo's guys. Cunningham does a good job. Livery's my favorite concept of his. Yeah. Um, so I'm there quite a bit. Um, but I love- The little- ... checking out these little ma and pa style spots.

There's a place up in Muncie called The Herat, which is a really good draft, one of the best draft beer bars in the country. They've got 70 beers on tap. What's it called? It's called The Herat And, uh, you know, that, that's a great kinda hidden gem restaurant that not a lot of people have heard of or eaten at, I believe.

It's downtown Muncie. Nate: Oh. H-E-R-O-T, Herot. Blake Foglesong: Yep. That looks- Really good pizza. They got, like, a medieval theme decor, which is kind of fun. Nate: Hell Blake Foglesong: yeah. And, uh- That's sick ... it's a spot that everybody should check out- Nate: Wow ... if they haven't been to, Blake Foglesong: been to downtown Muncie. Nate: Is there a spot? Are you, are we at home with a cocktail listening Perry Foglesong: to our music?

Um, no, no, no. I mean, um, we like [01:04:00] Nilo's in Westfield quite a bit. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: There. If I really wanna relax, I won't go to one of my own restaurants, 'cause when I go to my restaurant, I'm always kind of on point- Nate: Yeah ... Perry Foglesong: making sure everything's going well. Like, Nate: okay, if you walked into the Clancy's in Ohio, would they know that it's you guys? Perry Foglesong: They wouldn't know me, I don't Nate: think. Like, that would be, like, a little, like, undercover Blake Foglesong: boss. We actually, we, we don't get over there enough. We, we've even said, like, Perry Foglesong: we need Blake Foglesong: to get Perry Foglesong: over there- We probably Blake Foglesong: should be getting over there more, actually ... like you said, we've had a guy that's run it for 35 years, and he go overs- he goes over twice a month.

He lives here in town. But, um, that's an area we need to get back over and do more often. How, how far are you guys from? We, we eat at our own restaurants quite a bit. I mean, we're at our own restaurants probably two to three times a week. Perry Foglesong: Yeah, I'm at, I'm at Public House two, three times a week. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. ' Perry Foglesong: Cause I only live three blocks from there. Nate: Oh, yeah. That's, like, a, that's a no-brainer. I feel like the whole square in Noblesville is just cool. Like, I had made it up for the first time to, like, as an adult, like, this past summer, and it's, like, there's a lot of fun stuff there. Blake Foglesong: There's a ... It's a growing ... They're doing a, a big street change called Embrace Downtown Noblesville, where they're gonna be making the whole, [01:05:00] all the r- all the roads brick, which is gonna be super cool.

But there's all kinds of multifamily and, uh, new apartments going up. But it, it is, it's amazing from when I grew up there, and Sid's was the only kind of restaurant and bar there, and now it's a plethora of restaurants and bars and with more coming. Nate: Heck yeah. I love it. All right, these are the same three questions we ask every guest that starts.

Blake, we'll start with you, and we'll go back and forth. Um, first question, what's something the world needs to know about Indiana? Blake Foglesong: Indiana's just a, a great place to live. It's Hoosier hospitality through and through. Um, you know, I love the state here, and I love doing business here, so. Perry Foglesong: Yeah, absolutely. Nate: Perry? Perry Foglesong: People in my life that love Florida and wanna be there, I love the change of seasons personally. Uh, not a huge fan of winter, but I love spring and fall and summer. Nate: But even, like, the first snow, like, the first one where, like, you, the first flakes come down, it's the- I Perry Foglesong: like the first one. Nate: Yeah. Perry Foglesong: Then after that it's like, okay, I've seen it. Nate: Well, I think that's what makes Hoosiers so interesting is that, like, you're looking forward to something. You're looking forward to spring. It's [01:06:00] spring. You're looking forward to summer. Summer, you're looking forward to fa- Like, there's always just that thing versus, you know, if it was always hot, you'd start taking it for granted. Perry Foglesong: I mean, Indiana's a, a great pro-business, low-tax state- Nate: Yeah ... Perry Foglesong: to live and do business in. And, uh, I would agree. People are friendly. It's a super, you know, fun place to live in terms of, you know, it's not Angry people, it's happy people, you Nate: know? Yeah. Hey, that's, that's all you need, right? Mm-hmm. Okay, this is your opportunity to shed some light on part of the state that more people need to be talking about.

Could be a, a park, could be a place, a restaurant, could be anything. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? I'm Blake Foglesong: gonna go with Turkey Run State Park. Yeah. Just a really great peaceful park, and, uh, my fiance and I go up in the summer and we kayak and, and, and do hiking up there. But I, I feel like it's a, it's an area of the state that not a lot of people, uh, have either been to or talk about enough. Nate: They know about it maybe, but they don't go.

I feel like it's one of those things where it's like [01:07:00] if you actually go out there, it's, incredible. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. It's amazing, it's peaceful, it's beautiful, and it's fun. Nate: What's a hidden gem? Perry Foglesong: I think downtown Noblesville's the hidden gem, quite frankly. Blake Foglesong: It really Perry Foglesong: is. And one that people are gonna just continue to experience because it's, it's getting more fun and more things to do, and there's more- Blake Foglesong: I would say hit all, hit all the antique malls in downtown Noblesville if you haven't done the antique malls. Yeah. Like, they are, like- Everything's- ... there's a lot of cool vintage stuff there that's awesome. Nate: Yeah. And like, what's crazy is, like, antique malls/vintage is, like, is youthful now. Like, the youth love old things, Blake Foglesong: which is crazy. It's amazing how that's come full circle and it's all coming back. Nate: Yeah. Like, again, when we- I Perry Foglesong: really like that, that the youth l- love old things, because I'm, I'm an old thing. Nate: There Blake Foglesong: you go. Well, it's, I think it's funny all of our new concepts are now evoking nostalgia and all this vintage style things, which that's kinda the hot trend right now. Nate: Yeah. Which is fun. Where as like when it's like, oh, we wanted, like, new, shiny, stainless steel, uh, Cheddar Bay biscuits at Red Lobster.[01:08:00]

Yeah. And now it's like, I want old world, like, slightly used, maybe a little stain on it. Like, that's cool. Blake Foglesong: Yeah. Nate: It's funny. All right, this is where we source new guest ideas and hear about other people in our state that are doing amazing things. Who's a Hoosier we need to keep on our radar, someone who's doing big things? Blake Foglesong: So I'm gonna say Lance Evinger, who's the land and acquisitions guy at Hendricks Commercial Properties. He's in charge of the new Tracks and Yards development downtown, which is a $600 million development, uh, um, uh, taking over the Circle Centre Mall. Mm-hmm. Which is super exciting and gonna be super fun for the city when it, when it gets open here in a couple years. Nate: Yeah. We might need to get him on the show and talk about what we can expect, 'cause that's, yeah, a wild redevelopment that's happening. Blake Foglesong: Yep. Nate: That whole area, too, with the new, what? New hotel, new Fever complex. That's going on. Like, downtown is getting a little bit of life to it. Blake Foglesong: Yeah, there's new hotels popping up every- uh, there's a new amphitheater coming up, 3,000 or 4,000 seat amphitheater- Ooh

that the Pacers are gonna own and operate. Damn. They're still working on the Indy 11, um, um, MLS stadium, I think- Yeah ... which [01:09:00] we'll see if that ever comes to fruition, but it'd be great. Figure that part Nate: out, Perry Foglesong: yeah. Yeah. I'm just gonna agree with Blake. I think Lance is a great guy. I've watched him evolve, and from a young guy to where he's at now, I, I think he's, uh, super sharp. Nate: Yeah. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on and telling the story of Clancy's Hospitality. Since 1965, starting as the double drive-through burger joint that spread across four different states in the Midwest, kinda reimagining that into Grindstone Charlie's, and then full circle now with the Fountain Room, Grindstone Public House, all these cool concepts.

Uh, you got The Pretender opening this July. It's really, really cool to see these legacy businesses in the state of Indiana that have continued to reinvent and, and, and innovate, you know? Like, I think that, um, sometimes, you know, these family businesses, by the third generation, it's like, "Well, this is the way things have always been done, so we're gonna keep doing it that way."

And having your guys'... Uh, yeah, the, the [01:10:00] focus on innovation and new design and art and all those things, it's incredible. And, and, um, Noblesville particularly has to be very lucky to have, uh, such great concepts coming to the square. So keep up the good work. Uh, go visit their restaurants, everyone, if you wanna get out there.

Okay, give us the rundown b- right before we leave, where are all the spots that they can, uh, experience Clancy's Hospitality? Blake Foglesong: So we have Clancy's Hamburgers at the Garage Food Hall. We have the Fountain Room, which is in downtown Indianapolis at the Bottleworks District. We have Grindstone Charlie's in Kokomo, Grindstone on the Monon in Westfield, Michelangelo's Italian Bistro in Noblesville, Grindstone Public House, downtown Noblesville on the square, and then a Clancy's in Sidney, Ohio, and The Pretender opening in July. Nate: Wow, so that'll be number eight. Blake Foglesong: Yep. Nate: The Pretender's eight. That's so awesome. Keep up all the good work, and we'll talk soon, guys. Perry Foglesong: All right, Nate. Blake Foglesong: Thank you. Thanks, Nate: Nate. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater.

If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and [01:11:00] TikTok @natespangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hoosier State great. We'll see you next time here on Get IN.