The Master Blaster and I, uh, we talked through the detonation. You yell, "Fire in the hole." I might need an introduction to the Master Blaster of this project. And those cutter heads chew into the face of the rock. If you've met like a 10-year-old boy who like loves construction and trucks like this would be it.
When people see the pictures. 18 feet, yes. In diameter, yes. Looks like it's crazy, but are you a fan of crazy ideas? I am. Can I pitch you the craziest marketing idea that Citizens Energy may have ever heard? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between. This is Get IN the show focused on the Hoosier State and the incredible stories happening here today.
I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. getindiana.com is your one stop shop for everything Indiana, from festival and event guides to blog post covering hidden g. Local businesses, small towns, and more. Check it out and learn something new about the Hoosier State@getindiana.com.
And don't forget to subscribe to our weekly newsletter right there at the top. My guest today is Jeffrey Harrison. He's the president and CEO of Citizens Energy Group. After holding a variety of leadership roles in engineering, sustainability, and capital program, he took the helm in 2015 of citizens.
Jeffrey Harrison started his engineering career as a first generation college graduate. Whose father was a brick layer. He got a degree in electrical engineering from Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, home of the Fighting Engineers, where he still holds the indoor high jump record. I believe I heard six, seven, and a quarter.
Come on now. He then went on to get his MBA from Indiana University. Today we're talking. All about what's happening 250 feet below the streets of Indianapolis with the DigIndy project. Jeffrey, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for allowing me to be here today, Nate. Yes. Yeah, I'm really excited. I feel like I, so I moved to Indy in 2019.
Okay. And at that point people have been talking about what was going on with the White River, what was going, uh, what was going on 250 feet below our feet with the DigIndy project that I believe cost 2 billion with a B dollars. And took 10 years, something like that? Absolutely. $2 billion. We started, um, back in about 20 12, 20 13.
Wow. Yeah. Okay. So this is something that everyone should know about, but you can't necessarily see the direct impact because again, it's happening 250 feet below. Or 250 feet below our feet. Correct. That's a lot of feet. Take me through, so you took over Citizens in 2015? Yes. So the wheels for this project were kind of already in motion?
They were. Uh, were you at, where were you at before Citizens? Uh, before Citizens I was with AES Indiana. Okay. So, you know, a thing or two when it comes to. Utilities. Yes. In the state of Indiana? Yes. Okay. So take us to the genesis of what led us, what led citizens into the DigIndy project. So, I'll, I'll take us back to 2011.
So that's when, when Citizens Energy Group acquired both the water and wastewater utilities from the city of Indianapolis. Okay. And, and during that process, since we knew the acquisition was gonna take place. And I was a, I was an engineer, vice president of engineering at that time. We were able to then start the process and be in and sit in on meetings related then to the upcoming construction of the DigIndy Tunnel system.
And so, um, was very fortunate to sit in on those early meetings, get that, get that process started. And, um, and then carry that through from, from 2011 on through till today. But, um, to, to start that project, um, we, we looked at a number of different things. Again, um, starting it. This was the solution to an US Environmental Protection Agency, um, issue.
Where we were actually, um, polluting our, our rivers and streams. Yes. Here in, in the central part of the state and the U.S. EPA's, uh, clean Water Act, um, uh, really doesn't allow for us to do that. The waters have to be fishable, swimmable, and, and, and by all purposes clean. Where did this initial issue problem with the White River, with those river systems start?
Great, great question. So it, it started years ago, so even today there's a pipe that, that multiple pipes that will, um, extend over, over the top of our waterways. And what happened was the, the old saying goes, the solution to pollution was dilution. The solution to pollution. This is like a, this is a marketing campaign.
This is a, this is a, this, this is a real thing. Like what do we have a rough timeframe? Um, I don't know the era of, of when this happened. Like this is 19 hundreds, but early, early, early 19 hundreds. This is when, and this, the solution to pollution is dilution. This is dilution. Oh gosh. And so as, as as, um, effluent was created, it was diverted to rivers and streams where dilution would take place over time.
What's interesting too, it's like. This is their, you know, sometime in the early ish 19 hundreds and it's like, oh yeah, like rivers are fine. This is like, and it ends up being someone else's problem a hundred years from now. Yes. And then a hundred years shows up and you're like, oh boy, now we gotta, we gotta deal, deal with this.
We've got some issues. We've got some issues. So that process took place as, as dilution started to slow down. As city's got larger and larger, we started building treatment plants. And so we divert that pipe. Into our treatment plants. Um, but then these large rain events would come through and our treatment plants, um, started to spike during, during, during these rainstorms.
Um, and then you'd have the, the pipe would back up and it would overflow again through that, that, that, that pipe that existed before into our rivers and streams. And this is like initial. Engineering of the city. That that's correct, correct, that's correct. So like the early plan designers or city designers were, these were early solutions to this, to this, uh, to this sewage issue.
It's like, it's unfortunate 'cause you just like, don't know what you don't know exactly in the early 19 hundreds and you're like, eh, you know, this seems like a natural. I don't know. Dilution, dilution, dilution system. Natural answer. Yeah. And so as, um, as, as these, this problem got larger and larger during, during large rain events, then our, um, these overflows became more prolific.
And I think we're, I think there was about a 5 billion gallon a year issue. 5 billion gallons of raw sewage would enter a rivers and streams every year, U.S. EPA, again, through their. Clean water acts that you can't do that. When did the government, like this is 2011 with the, the Clean Water Act, or when was this?
In 2011, we took over, uh, the, the assets from the city and, and before that, the city had entered into a consent decree, an agreement with U.S. EPA to clean up, uh, our rivers and streams. And this was, this was, again, back on the city. There are a number of options that were reviewed and the most cost effective.
The most practical, um, option was to b was to build these underground deep tunnels that would essentially, um, store this, this effluent, this sewage. And, um, s significantly prevent it from, from in, in. From going over into our rivers and streams, and so that process took place. Wow. Okay. So this is a big, a big problem to solve.
This is a big problem to solve. I think that sometimes Indianapolis and the White River one, you know, people tend to have this perception of, of that, right, of, oh man, it's dirty, it's this, that, yes. Is this a problem that is unique to Indianapolis or like, was this design of cities. Happening all across America?
Uh, uh, that's exactly right. It happened all across the, the us. So there were cities that were doing the same thing we were doing, as they were. They, they used that same dilution process. It started to slow down as cities got larger. And then, um, they started coming up with more and more solutions. The first step was to, uh, build these treatment plants.
And, and as part of this process, we actually doubled. We have two of the largest, uh, advanced. Wastewater treatment plants in the country, if not the world, here in, in Indianapolis. And we were able to almost double the size of both of those treatment plants, um, while they were still running, uh, to help treat more, more sewage.
Uh, but it, it wasn't enough. And so we needed, we needed, um, essentially storage capacity. And so the DigIndy project, and it's 28 miles of 18 foot, uh, diameter tunnel. With a one that includes a one foot thick concrete liner, um, that essentially serves as a, as an incredibly large underground storage tank.
And so as, as a large, as a large storm system moves through central Indiana, the. We'll, we'll capture a lot of that water 'cause, because what happens, we talk about on, uh, on, on the, on our water system, on our natural gas system. We'll, we'll talk about, um, leaks and we'll talk about breaks in the pipe and, and, um, and we'll talk about that, that product getting out.
On the wastewater side, we talk about what's called inflow and in infiltration, so many of these, uh, sewage pipes are concrete. They'll develop cracks, concrete, always cracks, and so as rain comes in, it will, it will permeate through the ground, and then it will hit our sewage pipes. It will enter that sewage pipe.
It will mix with the existing sewage that's there. It will all become sewage that then rushes, rushes towards our treatment plant. It's too much. We can't handle it. It backs up and then it, then it overflows into rivers and streams. Hence the name combined sewer overflow, rainwater mixing with sewage, creating that combined sewage and overflowing then into our rivers and streams.
So that is the current solution. Or that is the solution that DigIndy is helping mitigate DigIndy is essentially so that, uh, we, we, what we're doing with DigIndy is we're tapping into that pipe that overflows. Yes. Today the rivers are river streams. Yes. We're tapping into that and we're sending that 250 feet Into this, into storage, into this, into this 28 mile, 18 foot, uh, uh, 250 feet beneath the surface, essentially storage tank under and keeping it out of. Rivers and streams. We'll, we'll prevent about 97% of that, uh, 5 billion gallons every year from entering rivers and streams. Wow. And in some years, um, we'll prevent a hundred percent.
And other years it might, it, it might drop that back down again to 97%. Okay. So take me through 28 miles long. 28 miles long. 250 feet down. 18 feet in diameter. That is correct. Holy. So where's the starting point? Like if I was to stand above ground, where would I start at and where would I finish at? So we've got, uh, there, there are branches.
So the, the, the tunnel follows, um, our, the water, our waterways. Yeah. And so, um, it, it, the, the end point I'll call it is, um, at, uh, our Southport Advanced Wastewater Treatment Plant. Um, I forget the golf course, Southern Dunes Golf Course. Okay. Right over there, down near Southern Dunes. That's where again, the it, and it starts, uh, the other end is up near the fairgrounds, uh, near 38th Street.
And so it'll gravity flow. From about 38th Street all the way down to the south side, uh, to near the Southern Dunes Golf course to, again, one of our two advanced weight wastewater treatment plants. By that time, we're probably about 300 feet, um, deep, and then we'll pump that up, uh, into our treatment plant.
We'll treat all of that sewage and then we will, we'll put that, um, then treated water, cleaner water back into, yeah. Uh, a rivers and streams. Wow. Yeah. When, when does it, when did, like, who got to press go on this thing? Like how did this start working? Um, when does it start working? So actually what, what, um, what we did there, there are a number of, of innovations by our engineering team, our operations team that, that made this, uh, that, that has made this a reality.
But, but what we've, what we've tried to do is really think about the environment and so. As I said, there's a, there's a kind of a major spine that runs through the system, and then there are, there are offshoots for other rivers and streams, um, that, uh, that are, that are feeders into it. And so as we were able to, we would activate certain segments of, of, of this, of this system and begin to treat and pump that water up, um, earlier than to, than, than this year, than 2025.
I think we've been active now for at least. Is it, uh, uh, probably about 5, 4, 4 to five years. So we've been, we've been even, but in some state, like in, in some capacity, yes. But a hundred percent rocking and rolling. Yes. Is the project completely done? I feel like I saw ribbon cutting recently. You, you did see a ribbon cutting.
We've got some, some punch list items and some small surface work. Projects to complete, but essentially it, it's, it's, it's working today. When people see the pictures of what we're like, what 18 feet Yes. In diameter looks like it's crazy. It's, it, it, it was a, it was a marvel. Even, even backing up and, and getting to that point.
So in Indiana, I. Um, your dirt till you get to about a hundred feet, and then after a hundred feet, you're in the bedrock. And in Indiana, that's limestone. How, how do you start 28 miles of underground tunnel? 250? Like, does someone just like dig a hole 250 feet down? We absolutely dig exactly that. Where was the first hole?
The first hole was near, um, our Southport Advanced Wastewater Treatment Plant on that property, and again, dug down that first 100 feet. And then you hit bedrock, and after that you've got to then figure out how to, how to dig down into this rock. And so what, uh, there were, there were, there were, uh, a partner of ours, uh, two firms.
This, these projects are so large that that firms actually partner together. And they, and they'll, they'll, they'll create what's called a joint venture. And so we used, um, J.F. Shea and Kiewit, uh, construction, and they, they joint venture, we called them the SKJV Shea-Kiewit Joint Venture, uh, entity. What they did was they dug down that first 100 feet or so.
Then they hit bedrock and then they planted micro charges. Um, small explosives in the rock. Tell me, you got to have like the, you know, ary plunger. I did. It was, it was incredibly exciting. But it's not a plunger, it's, it's, it's, you step on, there's a blasting cap in the center of this disc. And it looks like, what's what It looks like a network cable that runs, runs over the hill, man, down into the hole.
And uh, this was, they had, they used steel girders with, um, uh, conveyor belt like you see at the grocery store. Yeah. Rubber to help concuss the blast that would come out of the, out of this hole. So there's no TNT No. Like plunger, no Looney Tunes. There, there was no, that's a, that's a little bit of a letdown, I will say.
But, okay. So you're telling me they, and how far. Like, how much of a blast are they working with there? The first, the first hole I believe was about a 40 foot diameter hole. No way. And, and it was neat. So, so I did get to, uh, have one blast and there was, there was a position. It was called the Master blaster.
The Master Blaster. This is from Thunderdome, the Master Blaster. And I, um, we talked and he helped me understand the instruc gave me the instructions, and, and there's a sequence, uh, to the, to the detonation. Um, there's a whistle that sounds to alert the site, that there's about to be a de, you know, there, there will be a detonation, and then you, you, you yell.
Fire in the hole. I might need an introduction to the Master Blaster of this project. And I wanna know what kind of credentials it takes to get there. Like, are you like the junior blaster until you become the Master Blaster? Like there's a whole podcast to to talk about on that one. So this thing starts, what this was.
What year would that have been when actual work and like Earth was being moved to create this project? I think it would've been. 2012, 2013 Okay. Is when we started. Wow. When we actually started moving and started digging and blasting Wow. Down into, down into the earth. Dig this big hole. And then they start like tunneling one way.
Yeah. So once you, once you go down, you hit the two 50, you, you turn under. So you still use that same method. Method. Then, um, there's an incredibly unique piece of equipment that is brought in and its it's called a TBM or a tunnel boring machine, and its sole purpose. And this thing is dug tunnels for, you know, subways and different states and, and those kinds of things.
So you'll insert this TBM and there's a cutter head on the, it's, it's on the face of this device, on this, this large machine. It's a 2020 to 22 foot. Uh, diameter cutting head. Cutter head. Is it like, I'm envisioning like a, a spiral, like at the front? You know, it, it's, it's, it's a, it's a huge head and actually it's got, um, smaller rollers, uh, that are cutters, um, on its face.
And so there are a number of cutters that, um, that's it. Is it this thing that Robert, we gonna, we're gonna put that picture for anyone that's watching. That's it. You see those cutters on there? And, and what will happen is they'll, they'll use pressure and those, and those cutter heads. Then to chew into the face of the, of the, um, of the rock.
I feel like this job is like, if you've met like a 10-year-old boy who like loves construction and trucks, like this would be it. Like when you say, oh, I want to grow up to work in excavation. Like, I don't know, Master Blaster operating this thing. Like, I don't think it gets much better than that. That's, wow.
So then that thing just starts rolling. Yes. And how long does it take? This machine, what's it called? Uh, tunnel boring machine. How long does it take? The tunnel boring machine to tunnel out. 28 miles underground, or 28 miles of tunnel. Yeah. We started tunneling, I'd say in 2013. We did not finish. When was that?
That was probably about 2023. 20, 24, 10 years ish. It took that, that amount, that amount of time. Oh my gosh. It's, it's an incredibly slow process. Um, think about the size of that, you know, that 20 foot diameter face, face there, and. And think about all the rock that it is. It is, it is cutting into and the strength of that rock.
And, and as you're standing on the tunnel boring machine, as you would in a car, you pick a spot and you can barely tell you're even moving. Uh, it's moving so incredibly slow, however. Even at those slow speeds, we set a number of world records in terms of how fast, uh, that no way external boring machine cut through, cut through that, cut through that rock over, over multiple periods of times.
Yeah. It's an age old story of the tortoise and the hare. Yes, absolutely. You just gotta keep Wow. And so Was that thing running almost every day for 10 years straight? Yes. There, there were, there were, there were down, there was downtime to repair the equipment, but you had different shifts. That would go to, um, go to the tunnel boring machine and again, 250 feet beneath the surface and, you know, say that you're out a mile or so, you had to figure out a way, how does the next crew get to the TBM, the tunnel boring machine?
How does the current crew get off? And so lining the bottoms of these tunnel systems were, uh, essentially rail, small rail car tracks, but rail car tracks. And, and you would essentially ride a little rail car to the TBM once it got so far away that it was no longer practical to walk. I. Have you ever been to like Marengo Cave?
Yes, I have. Like, I, I'm not a cave person. Like, I kind of get a little close, like the thought of riding a mile long rail cart to like get to the job site every day. Like, kudos to the people who do that job. Like, holy smokes. It, it's, it's, it's exactly like that. If you were to turn out all the lights, you could not see your hand.
In front of your face and I'm good. We had to, I'm good. We had to pump in air to make sure there was, uh, enough oxygen in the, in the tunnel as well. Yeah. When you start to think like, it makes sense how this could be a $2 billion, because it's just little things like that, that you're like, not, I'm not thinking about how they're breathing air.
Yes, yes. You know, like I'm not thinking about how they're getting a mile underground. Mm-hmm. Like, mm-hmm. Oh my gosh. That's nuts. I wanna know a little bit more about how. Citizens ended up getting into this project. So I believe it was just after 20 10, 20 11 that Mayor Greg Ballard, mayor of Ballard ends up because the utility was owned by the city of Indianapolis, correct?
Is correct? Yes. Like so. And we we're talking this we on wastewater, right? Or all water? Both Water and wastewater. Owned by the city of Indianapolis. Okay. Yes. And then Mayor Greg Ballard. Mayor Greg Ballard ends up selling that to. Um, citizens to Citizens and you guys with that was this asterisk of like, oh, BTW, we have to clean up this whole system.
Yes. Like, how does that process work? Absolutely. That seems like a pretty big deal. Yes. And like the only similar comparison I have is actually a really. Not so good deal with the city of Chicago selling its parking meters. Like that's the comparison I think about. Mm-hmm. And it's like people are still saying like, uh, I don't know if that was a good move.
So how does this end up getting, um, you know, citizens becoming the steward of utilities? Water utilities here in Indianapolis? Yeah, so we'll, we'll, we'll harken back to, um, 2006, I believe it was Mayor Bart Peterson, Bart Peterson actually entered into a consent decree, a contractual agreement with U.S. EPA to clean up the rivers and, and, and streams in, in, in, in, in the central part of the state.
And are they measuring that by like a percentage if they come out and test it, you have to get to x amount percent clean or something like that? Yes. So, okay. So even though we're done here in 2025. We will need to, um, uh, test, uh, our, our work, uh, for, for, for years to come to ensure that the work that was done and complete and is now we say, is now complete, is actually doing what we said it would do.
So, so there is a, there is an after, uh, after the fact testing period, mayor, mayor Peterson signed a consent decree. Mayor Greg Ballard then, um, has the, the assets, both the water and wastewater utility assets and the, the consent decree and the. The dig tunnel are, are associated with the, the wastewater utility.
And, and they're looking at the utility, looking at, at citizens, looking at how, um, they're able to, to operate, looking at how we operate. And they, and we both came to the conclusion that it would be in the community's best interest. Um, to transfer the assets from the City of Indianapolis to, to Citizens Energy Group.
And, and that with that, uh, transfer came, um, some costs that, uh, would, would, uh, help reimburse the city for, uh, for the value of those assets. So we were able to make that transaction take place in August of 2011. Um, but also with that, um, because the city of Indianapolis was sign to what's called a signatory to the consent decree.
An environmental contract, if you will, with the United States Environmental Protection Agency. Citizens then had to also sign on as a signatory to that US Environmental Protection Agency consent decree. And would that be like a, a more contractual way of saying like co-signer Yes. Of like, you're guaranteeing that this.
This is gonna end up like we're gonna clean this up. That is, that is correct. We are both accountable. We are both accountable then for, um, uh, cleaning up our rivers and streams. And so we are in a partnership with the city, um, because we are both, uh, signatories to that document. Is that a complex, I feel like that seems pretty complex to also get the financing behind a $2 billion deal to clean up this thing where it's not like you can just straight up, like, it's not like, um, the.
Service today will be any different. Like your water, your toilets will still flush, your water will still come out. Yes. Like your sitting, like the people who are, your customers aren't seeing like this crazy, but over time Yes. When they're floating the river or doing whatever like that is where it'll start to impact the quality of life here in central Indiana.
That, that, that seems complex. Yeah. That it, it, it's, it's complex on a number of different levels and you're absolutely right. It's hard for the community to see. This tremendous work that has taken, uh, again, since 2000, I'll say since 2011 to complete. Um, but the benefits going forward are gonna be immeasurable.
Our, our rivers and streams, um, are cleaner today than, than we have ever seen them in the, we've seen them in the last 100 years. Um, it's, it's that significant and we're, we're getting this, uh, from individuals who are out in the community, who are enjoying these waterways, who understand and see these waterways every days.
Who have, who have been trying to protect these waterways, um, they're, they're telling us that they can actually see the difference. Even, even now. Is there like a measure, like how do you measure the cleanliness of water? Well, there, as you might imagine, there, there are a number of, of ways to measure, but, but I'd say one that is probably most significant is the E. coli concentration in the water.
Yeah. Which, which, because again. We're preventing this 5 billion gallons of raw sewage from entering those waterways. That E. coli contribution is significantly, has significantly decreased. Now, there are, there are other contributing factors, um, but, but the source from, um, from the wastewater utility, the wastewater system, it has been significantly decreased.
And that source, by the way, I believe, is the largest source. Um, that, that is, that is, that contributes to the E. coli contribution to rivers and streams. Okay. So that it would be like a percentage or something like, like if someone, I'm thinking in terms of like, uh, the tide at the, where it's like red flag, green flag.
Like is there like a, a system that we're using to say like, Hey, we were red and now we're orange and we're gonna be yellow and soon green. Yeah, no, we don't have that, that exact system. Instead, it's, it's ma the, the, the measurement is based on, um, if you were putting in, let's say, uh, a hundred thousand gallons today.
Yeah. Um, we will now only put in, uh, as much as. 97, or I'm sorry, 3000 gallons. 3000 gallons today. So they'll go from that a hundred thousand down to 3000. So that's where we say we're cleaning up 95 to 97%. Of, of, uh, the, the, the sewage that was put in prior to the construction of the DigIndy tunnel.
Okay. This makes sense to me. Like I think that water recreation is something that the, I mean, obviously. People are pushing for those. Watching at home. You can see our uhhuh make indie a river city. Like where are we at in terms of what can we do on the water? And it be is like safe and uh, accessible and like.
Uh, in lack of a better term too, like, uh, clean and not gross. Yeah, I, I, I, I'd say, you know, watch, um, what you do on the water, um, yeah. You know, any oils or, you know, from boats or, you know, things like that. Um, they impact, um, uh, our water system and, and, and no one understand that, that we're talking about, um, fresh water.
Um, or, or water in our rivers and streams. So that's, and that's, that's, um, water that, that, that again, uh, contributes, um, to our drinking water. So as, as that water, that drinking water comes to our water utility, we clean that up, uh, yeah. Clean that water up to, uh, to a drinking standard that meets all federal, state, and local mm-hmm.
Local laws. Um, but the less that's in the water means, the less that we have to clean up. And ultimately, um, that's less cost, uh, yeah. To our, to our customers. So like what activities have you seen increase, uh, since the, like, completion of the DigIndy project? Yeah, so we, we've seen, um, a couple of businesses develop along the waterways and, uh, one of them I'll, I'll highlight is Frank's Paddlesports Livery, Frank's Paddlesports Livery baby.
Come on. Got to meet Peter. Yes. Great dude. He's a great dude. He loves the river. Yeah. Uh, okay. Passionate about it. So you got to go out in canoe? Yes. For the first time. Yes. How are you a fan actually? Engineering background? Yes. MBA? Yes. I mean, obviously you're wearing the suit and I'm wearing the flannel here, but are you a fan of crazy ideas?
I am. Can I pitch you the craziest marketing idea that Citizens Energy. May have ever heard in the history of Citizens Energy, um, you most, you most certainly may. All right. I won't, I, I won't give you any pressure to sign anything or make an agreement right here, but I have what could be the greatest water marketing campaign the state of Indiana has ever seen.
Okay. All right. And it deals with. Frank? Well, it deals with Peter and Frank and the canoes. Okay, got it. The White River starts somewhere like it becomes canoe up around, I believe Delaware County. Okay. Somewhere up in that area I believe is like a good starting point. I don't know of anyone who's ever.
Canoed, the full stretch of the White River from Muncie to downtown Indianapolis, and along the journey, documented it and tested the water. Hmm, maybe jumped in, dipped in a swim. I'm talking a seven day excursion potentially. Okay. I think it, I think when I talk to Peter, it could be between four and seven days.
Someone camps along the river, someone canoes the entire thing, documents the journey, and maybe takes a dip at a few different spots, tests the water, and shows people this water is clean, they're doing a good job, and, uh, and that we could be a river city. So my, my idea is I could be that guy you send me out there, right?
Me and my boy Peter, maybe a few buddies. We pile into the canoes. We start paddling away. There's a few places where you have like. To pick out our canoe and gum up over this thing, but we'll document the entire process. We'll prove to the state of Indiana that the White River is clean and accessible for everyone.
That's an interesting idea. Every time everyone comes up with this. Okay, I'll leave that there. There's marketing. There's marketers in the room. I'm just saying that would be such an interesting me. It would break the perception, like that's my whole piece. Indiana has this perception and a lot of things, whether it's the river, whether it's the fly over state, whether it's, it's boring.
There's nothing to do here, and that's what I've set out to make the mission is proving that wrong. Like we can get out there and paddleboard, we can get out there and canoe. We can do all these fun things. It's accessible. You just have to get off the couch and go do it. So if I go the full stretch from Muncie to downtown and you know, show people this is fun, maybe they'll get out there for on a Sunday and just paddle around a little bit.
It's actually, it was, I was very pleasantly surprised. Very calming on the water. Uh, very nice, isn't it? Why? Okay, so I've gone from. We dropped in up by Keystone the Fashion Mall and gone to Broad Ripple Park. It's wild that you're, there's a cars like up there, but you can't really tell. There's like a ton of houses that live along the river.
You pass the White River Yacht Club, anyone hasn't been there. You check it out. There's a lot of fun happening there for sure. Um, the, the White River is truly, uh, a gem and I'm so glad to see that like the locals, like Peter are saying it's getting better. Mm-hmm. It's getting like more clean, all that fun stuff.
Like, that's awesome. And I wonder, I don't know if you have a rough timeline, but like, I wonder when you're like. Be like, be able to totally tell the full impact has been made like five years from now, three years from now. Yeah. It's a, it's a great question. Um, I don't think it'll take very long. In fact, when we first started to, um, open, open up portions of the DigIndy system, we saw, um, some fairly immediate re results.
And so I would think, yeah, within five to 10 years, for sure. We'll see, we'll likely see even, even, even more improvements to our, to our river, to our riverways. Yeah. I mean, yeah, if anyone is looking for a great, like go down to Frank's. Yeah. Ran a paddle border, canoe, whatever you gotta do there and just go out there and, and see it for yourself.
Like it will, it'll be one of those things. Uh, a lot of times people say like, I'll give them ideas like, Hey, actually go down to French Lick and go hang out there. Like so many people know about it but have never gone and it blows your mind. Yeah. This is one I think that will blow your mind, like going in canoeing or paddle boarding, whatever it is I had.
Clay, one of the co-founders of Sun King on, okay. This was been more like first, I don't know, early episodes. Right. And this was two years ago. And he said that his favorite thing to do was to grab a couple beers and go out and paddleboard on the river. And he and Frank's was so early then on, and that video ended up getting.
I dunno, like 50 or a hundred thousand views, and a ton of people went and tried it. Wow. And they're like, oh my gosh, it's so different from what I expected. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's great. It's neat. And, and I, I saw that, um, uh, firsthand and, and again, I think, you know, the city has, has essentially turned its back on our, on our waterways for, for a while.
But now I think we can begin to, to more focus on the, on our waterways. Uplift them Yeah. In a way that hasn't historically been done and en and enjoy them. Yeah. Um, a bit more. So I'm not holding you to this. I'm not like saying that you have to like give it the full, but if you could wave a magic wand and you know, we look 15, 20, 30 years in the future, how does.
The city of Indianapolis continue to develop around the river. And what's like the magic picture? Like, paint a picture for me. Yeah. I, I'd say you, you know, if I had had a vision on this vision around this, um, we, we would see a much more activated waterway than, than, than we've, than we've ever seen really in our, in our history.
Um, we have a number of waterways in the city that are, that are incredibly beautiful. Um, at, at one point in time and we talked before there was potentially a, a, a soccer stadium that was, that was gonna be located near there. There could be restaurants, um, other, um, water activities, uh, that could, that could take place on the waterway.
Um, just from an aesthetic standpoint, it's beautiful, it's calming. Um, there could be yoga studios, all those types of things taking place, um, along, along the waterway. Okay. You know, who does a really good job of activating their river district? South Bend. Have you been to the area? Uh, they call it the Riverwalk up there.
I, I've been to South Bend, but I've never been to the Riverwalk. Okay. Okay. So there's a stretch from Mishawaka over to South Bend. Okay. And I was just up there maybe a month or so ago, and like one of the things they say Hey, you have to go check out the Riverwalk And I was like, okay, sure.
Whatever. It's so cool. Like the, what I love about it is that the sidewalk and the trail is like right tight up against the river. Mm-hmm. And like it's got a good stream going. Like the whole thing just feels. You know Zen. Very zen. I, I love it. And I was like, oh my gosh. They have done such a great job of activating the river district.
I hope that like, you know, the leaders throughout Indianapolis can like see some of these examples happening in these cities around the state of Indiana too, and start to pull some inspo. 'cause I think that would be so fun to walk down. Like one of my favorite spots is the Monon in Broad Ripple, right?
Yeah. Those red bridges that go over the water. Mm-hmm. It's so cool. Yeah. You're like, how the heck am I like. 200 feet from a Chipotle and I'm going over this nature bridge. Um, and I think that if we could find more of that and like start to really lean into that, that'd be so much fun. Yeah, I like that. I like that Riverwalk idea.
I don't, we need, we may need to think about a stretch there. Another one. Come on. Big ideas. That's what I'm here for. We're gonna come back. Maybe we hire you out. Parttime consultant here. We, he's like, guys just trust he's gonna come in. He's what? It's gonna sound crazy at first, like canoeing the entire stretch of the White River sounds a little crazy, but then you think about it and it's like.
Well, if anyone's gonna do it, Nate will figure it out. You know, what can we expect? So the project officially like ribbon cutting, opened up in October. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, so are there more developments that need to happen later on down the road or is this like, Hey, this $2 billion project is done, this $2 billion project is done, and so can you like, breathe again?
You like sleep, sleep soundly at night? It's, it's been, it's been a huge project. We've got other large projects going on, but this has been a huge project. It's been a long time coming and incredible. Uh, group of individuals at Citizens has been working on this every single day, from accounting to legal, to engineering, to operations.
Um, our PR team, uh, everybody has, has thrown in on this to make this a success. So, um, we're, we're, we're, you know, it's, it's a bifurcated feeling. We're happy to see it end. Um, but we're also sad, uh, because this is, uh, this has been so long in the making. We've been so used to it being part of our, the fabric of our organization.
Yeah. But, but it's still there. And we'll still maintain this, this incredible asset. How many. Central Indiana residents does this impact? Um, I think we, we serve around 900,000, uh, or so. So just under a million people are impacted by the DigIndy project. If you could speak one-on-one to all of them and say, Hey, this is what you.
Need to know about the DIG project in 60 seconds, what would you say? Um, I would say, um, that this project again is just, it's, it's just transformational. Um, it's a project you can't see. It's a project, um, that, that, again, is hard to comprehend, but its impacts will last for, uh, a hundred over a hundred years.
And so, um, and we'll see, we'll continue to see benefits each and every single year. As, as again. Central Indiana continues to flourish and activate, uh, economic development takes place, especially along the waterway. Um, this project is the foundation, uh, for all those efforts. It'd be interesting to set up like a time lapse type camera around like some of the.
Maybe historically like rougher parts of the river and just like see, you know, maybe it takes a picture once a month for five years or whatever, and see the development that this brings. You know, when you're diverting 97% of what used to go into the river, into the two. Spots down in, uh, Southport. Like that would be interesting to follow.
Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm really curious to see the impact that this has lasting and like, you know, what the future of Indianapolis, potential River District, wink, wink Leonard talking to you, man. Um, what that brings. I think that that's super interesting. Uh, and it's awesome to know. I feel like I've seen all the things about this project since I moved to Indy in 2019.
I've heard about DigIndy. This is happening right now below your feet, 250. Like there's a person with this. There's a Master Blaster going crazy through the bedrock. Let's go. Um, man, Jeffrey, this has been so much fun to learn about the DigIndy project and all the great stuff that y'all are doing with citizens.
At the end here, we always talk about just the state of Indiana in general. Sure. That sound fun. Where are you from originally? So I'm from Jeffersonville, Indiana. Born and raised Indiana. Jeffersonville? Yes, Southern Indiana. What high school? Jeffersonville High School. Jeffersonville? Yes. Are they the Pirates?
They are the Red Devils. Uh. The Jeffersonville Red Devils. We, we won. I was thinking of Charlestown. Oh yeah, that's the Pirates. That's right, that's right. Charlestown was, uh, that's kind of my shtick is to know all the high school mask guys. That Right. I totally butchered that. The Jeffersonville Red Devils.
Yes. Yes. And then it's the 'cause Charlestown's, like right down that area too. Right down the road. Right down the road. You did well and you were a basketball and, uh, track star basketball and, and, and, and track. We'll, we'll say yes. Basketball and track star there as well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so then you end up at Rose-Hulman.
I did. Uh, how did you like your time in Terre Haute? Um, that, the time in Terre Haute, that was engineering school was tough. It was rough, so it was one of the hardest things to do. And then on top of that, you played sports, so you had, um, games and practices during the week, and you had a, a very rigorous academic schedule.
So it was, it was rough, but again, I wouldn't change it very, um, very. rewarding Yeah, it's very rewarding. Yeah. And, and so then you end up, did you move to Indianapolis right after graduation? I did. So, um, started interviewing for jobs while I was in college, uh, which typically happens, um, rose boasts some kind of a 90%, somewhere around 90, uh, greater than 90% placement rate before you graduate.
And did the same thing and came to Indianapolis and walked around, uh, the city. This, this was, uh. A number of years ago, we'll say, Nate, and it was a, it was a different time back then. People were friendly here in Indianapolis and it, and it felt just like Jeffersonville, Indiana, people would wave and say hello even when you didn't know them.
And so made a decision to make Indianapolis my home and I've been here ever since. I love that. Yeah. We, uh, I, I constantly come back to this, uh, statement that Jeff Mian said on the pod. Yeah. He said, you can't be a bad guy in Indianapolis. 'cause the whole town will know about in 45 minutes. That's, he's right.
Yeah. And it's like so true, everyone. Yeah. You know, and constantly we always ask like, what, what's special about India? It's, it comes back to the people. Yeah. And with a degree from Rose, you could have gone, I'm assuming about anywhere. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I wanna put a, a very big exclamation point.
From an engineering perspective, an incredible school. It's an incredible, yeah. There's like this pipeline from Rose to, uh, rolls Royce, downtown Uhhuh, not the Rolls Royce. It's making like, you know, the phantoms and the race, like Rolls Royce. It's doing like engines and defense work. Right, right. It's insane.
It's like everyone, every time I meet someone from Rose, I'm just like, yep. And you're smarter than me. Great. Good to know. I'm glad I will learn something from this conversation, this next question. So we, in that vein, right, we're talking, you could have gone, you could have gone and done other stuff, like Rose has potential and alumni and opportunities all across the United States and beyond, I'm sure.
But this question is brought to you by friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at homeisjchart.com. My question for you, Jeffrey. Why do you call Indiana home? The people, I think, um, even in the business community here, since I've been here, we've been able, we've had some very difficult problems to solve, but the, this community just comes together around major issues and we are able to work through it.
Uh, throw in the fact that it's a, it's a very economical place to live and, and it's an incredible environment from a, from a social standpoint, from a fun, just a fun standpoint. Um, I've decided just not to leave, uh, not to leave Indianapolis. Amen. Yeah, I love that. So true. That's great. And, and it all goes back to the people, you know.
Yeah. Come on. So you serve on the United Way of Central Indiana board. Yes. Correct? Yes, yes. What's one local charity that you think needs to get more attention than it should? Someone like a Gleaners, uh, because of the issues around. Food insecurity. Yeah. That we're experiencing. I would say any, any institution, like a Gleaners that can, uh, help supplement, uh, yeah.
Food to, to, to our neighbors. Amen. They're, they're doing great work. Yeah, great work down there. Um, and it's always fun. I feel like with being involved with the United Way, you get to be a part of like, I a ton of different Yes. Uh, nonprofit organizations, which is pretty cool. It's like one organization that touches, I don't know how, there's like a ton of them.
A ton. And they, I was just a part of the, there's like a. Pitch competition type thing. There's that, and then there's the, uh, awards they do for like rising. Oh yeah. Like young leaders in our community. Yes. And I was like reviewing some of my peers. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, their process. I was like, oh my gosh, these people are incredible.
Like, how lucky are we to have such like. All stars in our community. It's incredible. Um, I'll, I'll throw in also, um, Warm Heart Warm Home, which is, uh, uh, a nonprofit that, uh, helps, uh, individuals with their utility bills and Citizens Energy Group, um, actually, um, uh, owns or runs that, that foundation. Yeah.
So we're always looking for support, um, to help our neighbors. Um, and if you provide monies to Warm Heart Warm Home, we'll make sure those monies help go to support individuals who otherwise could not, uh, afford their utilities on their own. I do have to ask as the CEO of Citizens Energy, right, which is we're talking water here in the city of Indianapolis, Uhhuh, what is the perfect length of a shower?
Oh my goodness. That's a, that's a tough question. Um, uh, another tough question. We asked the hard hitting ones here, here on the show, you do the perfect length is. You shower until you're clean. Excellent. I'm like pulling out the questions he's never gotten before. He's like, what the world? He's like, I did not, you know, you didn't go home and you eat dinner tonight.
Like I got asked. The most interesting thing by this young man in Broad Ripple today. Um, I love it. Okay. If it wasn't canoeing and kayaking the White River. Mm-hmm. Are there other water activities that you really enjoy? Yeah, I enjoy, actually, I enjoy boating. So, and, and my form of boating is on a pontoon boat, something, uh, that's a little stable and, and just relaxing on the, on the water and, uh, with friends and family and, and, uh, just, just hanging out.
So, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, no bad time spent on any sort of body water. Absolutely. Whether it's a paddle board in downtown Indianapolis on the White River. Yeah. Or it's a pontoon up at Morse Reservoir up in Hamilton County. Great times to be had. Absolutely. Okay. I've come to the final portion of show.
All right. These are the same three questions that we ask every Yes. That comes on. Okay. We get to share a little bit about your version of Indiana. Okay. So. We did talk about this a little bit about why you call Indiana home. Yes. But now if we could shout it from the rooftops and tell the world something that they need to know about Indiana, what would you tell them?
What is something the world needs to know about the state of Indiana Hoosier Hospitality? It goes back, it goes back to the people. Just, uh, just a friendly, friendly social climate and a friendly and workable business climate, um, as well. So. Pick your, pick your poison, but I think Indi Indiana is just a great place to be.
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. This is your opportunity to highlight a place that not enough people across the state are talking about. Okay. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? Our Indianapolis Zoo, Ooh. I think our zoo is, is an amazing facility run by, um, Dr. Rob Shumaker, who's their CEO. We just, uh, just celebrated and completed, um, our Indianapolis Prize event.
Which searches across the globe for conservationists who are doing some amazing things to help, um, help our planet. So, um, and, and our ecosystem. So I'd say the Indianapolis Zoo. Yeah. If you wanna learn all about the Indianapolis Zoo, I highly encourage you. Go back and listen to my episode with Dr. Rob Shumaker.
It's incredible. Like we learn all about the zoo, what goes into it? Wanna hear fun fact about zoos? Yeah, go ahead. I did not know that zoos were not allowed to buy animals because it like. Feeds into, you know, the wrong mm-hmm. You know, like this whole ecosystem and whole, uh, business behind, you know, animal conservation things.
Right. So like every animal that ends up in a zoo is either donated or rescued from somewhere else, like not purchased on any sort of markets. Yeah. And I thought that because I was like asking, how do you get new rhinoceros or whatever, and he's like, we have to find it natural. Like it has to either be rescued or gifted from another zoo.
Mm-hmm. I thought that was crazy. It's the, the more, the more you know, right? The more you know. Alright, finally, this is your opportunity. This is how we get new guests for the show. Okay? Or learn about Hoosiers that are making an outsized impact. Who's the Hoosier we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things.
Alan and Mali Bacon. Uh, they are the, the mind behind BUTTER, uh, the art show that takes place here and I think is expanding, um, across the nation a little bit as well. So, yes. Uh, you're just hitting all the ga another fire episode where we sat down with Alan and learned all about BUTTER. Yeah, it's, and we're not talking margarine, we're talking BUTTER.
It was incredible. Like the culture that comes behind this, uh, the, just all the everything. I mean, it is a total, I did say I'm potentially taking DJ lessons. Alan told me that if I learned how to DJ that he would give me like an opening slot. At BUTTER next year. Oh, wow. So like TBD if I actually like get around and taking the lessons, but could be fun.
Uh, did you go to BUTTER this year? I, I did not. I had a, I had a conflicting event, but I, but I normally go to Butter. Yeah. Um, since it's, since it's inception, it's like, it's like, must visit Indianapolis lore. Like, it's incredible. It's incredible. Uh, especially now they've taken over, like they take over the Stutz area.
Yes. Like that whole area. Yes. It's so cool to see. Uh, I dunno. Historic parts of the city, like bringing new life into it. Yeah. So fun and like historic. The river, like that's go, I think that's awesome. Yeah. Very. A lot of ties there. They're doing some things. Final, final thing we wanna talk about for those watching at home.
This is Indy H2O drinking water. What am I, what am I holding here? You are holding, uh, our, one of our newest products. So we thought it'd be a great idea to put, uh, some of our drinking water into a very sustainable, uh, can. Uh, and so we're, we're now offering that, uh, uh, and, and some we're, we're testing it actually right now.
It's a little pilot project going on, uh, around Indy H2O. We're very excited about, uh, this product. It's used for a number of different purposes. We'll use it for emergency events and sometimes we will provide it gratis, and then other times we'll we'll sell at different venues as well. So look for Indy H2O and if you see it, we hope that you buy a can.
I mean, this might need to be the official. Water of the Get IN podcast there. We know. Go, I'm over here some brand that starts with a d handing out water bottles and now we might have to shift into the Indy H2O Wow. Drinking water from a municipal source. And you've got like, whoever designed this can kudos to them.
Yeah. Thank you. Incredible job. It wasn't me. We've got, we've got a great team here that, that designed that can so we'll, we'll get you a, we'll get you a box. Yeah, there we go. Absolutely. Jeffrey, it was incredible to learn all about the DigIndy project. Thank you. This is wild to me. 250 feet below our feet.
Yes. That's such a fun one. 250 feet below our feet. 28 miles of tunnel. That's 18 feet in diameter. That's diverting. 97. Roughly. Yes. Percent of wastewater. Yes. Out of our public rivers and streams. Correct. You're, did I say that exactly right? Did I get it? That's perfect. Yeah. There you go. That's great. Skip to the end.
You're gonna get it all right there. That's what you need to know about dnd. That's it. That's it. I think that it's incredible and it really hones in on the fact that, uh, uh, the community that is Indianapolis, where the public sector, the private sector come together to make this project happen that's gonna maybe not, maybe not be something that's like, I think a lot of times.
Private businesses are thinking about what's profit today, right? Versus what's gonna make an impact in our community for years and years to come. And you think about the legacy that is, the DigIndy project is gonna make a huge impact. Huge. When our kids, kids, kids can do cannonballs into the White River off the side of the JW Marriott or whatever, you know, maybe not that, don't do that.
But, um, I really appreciate you giving us the time today. It was a pleasure to learn more about your story. If you are at Rose-Hulman, please go check to see if he still holds the indoor high jump record. I'm very curious. Six, seven and a quarter is what I hear. And, uh, if people wanna learn more about Citizens that they wanna learn more about the DigIndy project, they wanna really get into the weeds here.
Where can they do that? Get into the water here. Yeah, they can go to citizensenergygroup.com and you can see about, you can learn about all of our utilities, um, our services. You can get help on that website, uh, as well. So, yeah, incredible. And if people wanna learn more about you, they wanna connect with you, anything like that, where can they do that?
Uh, they can do that as well. They can go to the website and, um, drop a note and that'll get to me as well. There we go. Hey, we appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. Keep up the good work, doing all the great stuff for it, uh, central Indiana, and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks Nate. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater.
Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level. Click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at Sweetwater. If you want a behind the scenes look at everything we're doing across the state. Make sure you follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Nate Spangle.
Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hoosier State great. We'll see you next time here on Get IN.
