The Midwest brand is working hard. It is taking pride in what you do. No job is too little for me and I'm just going to outwork any competitor, no matter where you're from. Do work that gets noted and makes someone laugh or feel a thing or believe a thing. Like we can do that. How would you market State of Indiana or building the brand that is Get Indiana?
From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hoosier state and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana and I will be your host for today's conversation. Before we get into the show, I need to remind you that today's episode is brought to you by my friends at NCW. You might remember when I had Dan Maddingly on the show talking about how they built a national staffing and recruiting company over the past 25 years specializing in skilled trades. They are looking for new members to join their team. If you're looking for work in recruiting, sales, or general business operations, you need to check out teamncw.
com. Not only have they been voted a top workplace by Indy Star, listed on the IBJ Fast 25, and featured on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest private growing companies in America, but I also have a personal laundry list of friends that work at NCW and absolutely love it. To learn more and check out their open roles, check out teamncw. com and tell them you heard about it on Get In during your interview. Today I'm joined by Ben Seal, head custodian and founder of The Flatland, a fiercely independent ad agency here in Indianapolis.
Now, Ben built The Flatland in 2004 because he wanted to do work he liked with people he liked while staying focused on building strong brands through exceptional storytelling. He's a hiker, a dad, and an expert in cutting out the BS when it comes to branding. Today we're going to be talking about The Flatland philosophy and the story and the journey that really got them to where they are today. We're going to give you some tips on how to make brands that actually sell and if you stay till the end, Ben's going to do a breakdown on our brand and tell us what he likes, what he dislikes, and what he would change about Get Indiana. Ben, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Dude, I'm really pumped about this one. It's going to be fun. For starters, you came in the door with some really really cool merch. And I always say like company merch usually, no offense to anyone out there in the company merch business, usually sucks. And he gave me like like one of those hats, like some shirts that are like, "Oh my gosh, I would actually wear this. Like this is cool."
And it's like one of the shirts that make people ask, "Like what is this? Like oh, is this like an outdoor wear company?" It's like, No, it's ad agency branding, you know, all that stuff. So, Most most merch turns into a rag you wash your car with, I feel like. So, we try to create things that people would actually like, which is sort of the name of the game, right? Yeah, I mean that's that that's 90 99% of it, right?
What got you down this career path? Where did you first like want to set out to build unique brands? I actually grew up on a farm in Indiana. I didn't come from Madison County. I went to high school in Pendleton. This is this is an Indiana-based local show, so I guess we can do we can do local local.
Go Arabians, baby. Come on. Indeed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So, you grew up in Pendleton? Yes. And I'm actually from Markleville, Indiana. So, shout out to all 17 people in Markleville. Markleville. I've never heard of that one.
Yeah, most people haven't.
Okay. So, you're you're up in Madison County. You grew up on a farm. So, clearly the the direct career path is into advertising. I grew up on a farm. I come from you know, my dad was a factory worker.
My grandfather was a farmer. I I didn't come from people who went to work in in an office. You know, I had the opportunity to to go to college. I went to Ball State. It was something that was important to my my my dad especially because you know, he didn't he didn't have that opportunity. It was important to your dad that you leave the family farm and go to college at Ball State?
My dad was a factory worker. My grandfather was a farmer. To them, I think there are many other paths. And I think since since then we've realized there's trade school, there's just getting a job, there's all these different things that that that you can do. But that time for them, I think because college hadn't been a possibility, that was a goal that they set for me. And um you know, I I uh chose advertising because it seemed like a career I could wear shorts in, you know?
It seemed like something I wouldn't have to get dressed up for. And you watch Mad Men and you're like, "Wait a second." Wait, these guys are wearing suits. So, that's kind of the beginning and and advertising just seemed interesting and I started studying and it just I don't know, it just it just stuck.
It was fit. What was like that first moment? Like you're sitting in class, you're learning about advertising, and that it goes from theory and you know, like try to get an A on a course, to like, "Oh, I want to do this for my career." Uh you know, so here's this is this is not a Ball State story. I think it was a Ball State question cuz that's where I went. But the the first time I realized I like this advertising uh game, right?
Uh the creative game, was it was probably eighth grade. Man, I haven't thought about this for years. So, you're you're already asking uh like deep penetrating questions, right? It was eighth grade and we were studying like Greek and Roman um gods, right? Mythology. And we had to create and sell a product that a that a a Greek Roman god would endorse.
And I And it was I think it was just a it was just a technique, right? To get us to remember what, you know, this this god or that god was all about. I created um Hades Underworld Underwear. It was made It was made out of like 80-grit sandpaper. It was just, you know, for all eternity uh uh you know, uncomfortable uh uh sandpaper-based underwear uh was was the product. I just I just thought it was hilarious.
I had fun doing it and to realize that like, "Oh, someone's job is to have this fun." Um and that fun is something that that clients find value in and makes them money. Um that's kind of where that seed was planted. And so, it was That was it.
Underworld Underwear? Yeah, I had no idea when I got up this morning that was what we were going to talk about. but yeah, I I Well, it's funny because like I feel like people have like semi good ideas or are funny or like can think of things like that, but never find the career path to make to make money doing that. For me for example, it's like I'm just fascinated by random things across the state of Indiana and there's a lot of people that are fascinated with random things, but finding a way to make that a career path and to talk about hidden gems or these crazy silly Indiana facts that I learn about has been like a winding road and a challenge and you get like you say growing up on a farm did you know anyone who knew anyone who worked in advertising? No, absolutely not. I don't know I don't I don't have a grandparent who went past eighth grade.
And I'm the first little little branch on my little Seal family side of things to to go to college and yeah, I didn't come up having connections, but I you know in my mind I had something better. There was work ethic and there was this mindset that if you're going to do it, take pride in it and and do it well and you are no better than anybody else, but nobody's any better than you. Just hold your chin up high and and work hard and create something that you that you believe in. Honest man's bill is his peace of mind kind of thing I fella who's your Johnny Mellencamp said for me in the long run better than connections in an industry or connections to to get clients and that kind of thing. Ended up graduating from Ball State. Is your degree in advertising?
It is. It's technically journalism with a a specialty in advertising. And so what does a recent college graduate looking to start their career in advertising? What does that look like? Where are you headed? Where are you going?
What kind of job are you looking for? I mean just just hustle gets so much done in this world and we we talk about this with clients a lot. There's a a very professional technical term I use called give a And if you apply some give a you would be a amazed where where you could go. And we we get you know we get applications online from people. The easy route is is sending us an email and a form, but you know, the kids who actually call, the kids who email, the kids who, you know, find you on LinkedIn and send you a message saying, "Hey, I like your shop. I'm a recent graduate.
What what can I do?" You would be amazed how those kids get lucky finding a job. When you can change your mindset, they don't even know that you can be creative or like go outside the box there. Because like the game says like, "Oh, I should just like apply here. My resume will stand out. I didn't get the Lily internship or the Like no."
And I was like, "I'm a failure." Like none of these big companies cuz my resume was terrible. But I was like, "As soon as I get them in a conversation, like if I could just sit down with them, like nine times out of 10 I'm going to get the thing that I want because I'm a storyteller." And And like they meet me in person, they're like, "Oh, this guy like gives a and like gets done." And like that's just who I am.
Yeah. Uh and so it's like learning maybe this. Mom, Dad, if you're listening to this and your kid is struggling to find a job, send them this little clip about, "Hey, go outside the box." If it says a cover letter and a resume, like don't just use chat GPT and switch some stuff out. Like do one creative thing. Like I always love the one that's like like they left their shoe with the secretary cuz they wanted to get a foot in the door or whatever. You know, like stuff like that is kind of corny, but like there's a way to do that in a professional way to really like give a
Let's see. I I have seen the You know, something shows up in in a in a in a wooden crate and then and it's all nailed shut and separately maybe someone sends you a crowbar and they're like, "You know, I would do anything to pry my way in here." I've seen seen that.
Someone's done that for you guys?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that before. I've seen that before. That was when I was working at a firm way back when, but I don't even remember who it was, so I can't say for sure. Yeah, the fact that they took the effort was a huge deal and it and it it was it was memorable.
So, what did you do to get your foot in the door somewhere?
Uh the very first job that I got, I went around to old record stores and I found every copy of um, the Abba album that had Take a Chance on Me on it and I sent that record to everybody I could I could find, you know, in those days probably in the yellow pages. And, you know, did a whole thing with it. I think it pressed a couple people and pissed off a couple people.
No way. You'll get pissed about that?
should have gotten pissed because, um, several ver- the first iterations of this mailing had something on it that had like a little bit of glitter applied to it. And you're like, you can't mail glitter, dummy. You can't mail glitter. It comes uh it comes off, right? It gets loose in the box. So, you open the box and like these are random bits of glitter fall in someone's lap.
So, that's that's And they're like this That's a great That's a proof there that, um, great idea can have poor execution that ruins everything. So, you know, we we dialed in the product and, um, eventually got hired on the glitterless version. The the V2. V2 with no glitter. That's a I mean, that's like a I get a little a little bit of corny, but like totally the best kind. You're going to work in advertising.
The whole thing is to make something make something memorable. Yeah, and I had no pull. I had no connections. I had to make an impression with somebody and and that did it and and, um, that first job was a great start for me. I don't know all the words to that one, but I know the the rel- the relative rhythm. Yeah.
Um, so someone took a chance on you. What year is this? 97. Then you spend 7 years in industry before you leave in 2004 to start your company. Probably closer to eight when, you know, you add in the months, but yeah, I kind of learned my craft, cut my teeth at a place and I mean, obviously when you get the first gig, it's just like you're a professional freshman. Like do the work, show some give a grind it out, hustle, all the things.
But at what point during that did you start to think like man, maybe I could do this a little bit different or a little bit better and kind of get this country Have you looked through any of their marketing advertising stuff? Like a little bit contrarian. Where did the those like thoughts start to form? Every agency needs to run its own way and, you know, I wouldn't throw anybody under the bus. There's there's big agencies that are good. Uh there are small agencies that are good and there there were in my opinion big ones and small ones that are that are not good.
But it is hard for a big agency to allow craftsmanship on on on the things that I wanted to do anyway. And and you just have to. I get it. I mean that's that's that's the way an agency like that needs to run.
I need I do need to dive in just a little bit cuz I understand it, but for some of the listeners that may just be funneling like ad agency into like marketing agency. Like what was the specific kind of work that you were doing for customers in those first couple years?
It was it was all over. I mean we had retail clients and B2B clients and all those types of things, but my side of the business, you know, in an advertising agency you have creative people, you know, who are who are doing, you know, the ad campaigns and the ideation and all that kind of stuff. You have account service people who are manning the managing the relationships uh with the clients and you know, trying to clean up the messes that the creatives make with with the clients. You have media people who are are figuring out either the buy the placement of the ads and I come from the creative side. Agencies most often not creative owned, but were more on the account service and strategy side owned and I just wanted to create an environment where I could just really focus on my craft, right? I just I just wanted to do work I liked with people I liked and I think I think that you you know, you've asked about the that sort of contrarian spirit.
If I needed to take extra time to make something great and it cost profit, it came at the expense of profit so be it. I I had the sensation that if we stopped thinking about being profitable first and we started instead to think about being good first, that the profit would come. You know, probably an unpopular way to do it and and and I get it, right? I mean it's it's a horribly inefficient way to to try to build a profitable machine, but my goal wasn't to build a profitable machine. I worked at one of those and I I I I just I wanted to just focus on my craft. I wanted to make things I feel good about and that's why it's the flatland.
That's why it's called that actually. It is Yeah, it's it's on the surface. It's about topography, right? You know, Indiana and flat and where we're from and all those all those things. Um but it's really more about mindset for me than than about topography. Factory workers and farmers and and some some coal mining in there and and to me the heartland, Indiana, the Midwest, it's a it's a spirit, right?
The Midwest brand, in my opinion, is working hard. It is taking pride in what you do and that's that goes for, you know, the guy in the the CEO office, it goes for the guy that's swinging a hammer and driving a nail. It's it's do your best at the thing you do and take pride in your craft. That to me, that spirit, is what the name is about more than geography. There is like a Midwesterner Hoosier mentality that that I see from the most successful people in Indiana of just like, you know, you talked about a professional janitor, like no job is too little for me and I'm just going to outwork any competitor, no matter where you're from. Yeah, that was so it was it was about hustle more than anything.
When I say the name of the flatland, when I think about the flatland, what I hear is is a thank you. It's a thank you to, you know, the people whose shoulders I'm standing on, um the opportunities I got um that were created for me by their hard work. Yeah. So, that's That's what that's about. What was kind of like the final domino in the agency life that led you to start the flatland? It was probably or should act like I had an awesome business plan and I had this all laid out and here's my path to, you know, the agency you see before you today.
I think I just had a particularly bad day. Yes. All right. So, someone really pissed Ben off. No, I work with There are so many good people in this industry, in this business, and and and everyone is only speak highly of people, but I I it was it was not about anybody else. It was about me.
I just I wanted to do just do something different. And I didn't want to be in a different business. I like the business. I liked the things I made. I just wanted to do it in a different way. I didn't have a client.
I didn't have any money to start it. I just had a feeling that you know, I don't know, foolish to believe if I just work hard, things will probably work out, right? Things will Surely things will be okay. So, um you know, I had I had young kids and and I was married at the time. I had responsibilities. Um but I just I felt like I needed to do it.
Yeah, there was a lot of fear involved. That's part of what has made us a better fit for a certain type of client. Our DNA as an agency is in this better work. This better work or I am bankrupt. And that feeling of this has to work is a feeling that our clients feel. You know, when we we we are best working with clients who need this to work.
You know, who who invest in marketing, who spend money in marketing, and need it to be an investment. They need that money to come back to them. When there's when there's that motivation like my job, my career, my income is tied to whether or not this works, we tend to work well with those clients because we have felt that.
And I do think that those are like cute hand distinctions where some people are like, "Ah, we're we're investing in marketing and eventually down the road there will be an ROI." versus the kind of like the performance marketing where it's like, "No, we're putting five bucks in this. We want to get $50 out." You quit your job, you're launching a company. Day one, what do we do? How do we go find a client? Yeah, you make calls. Who's the first one that gives you a chance cuz it's just you at the time, right?
Yeah, just it's just me and it stayed just me for a while. And and you know, really over the years I've tried everything I can to to stay small. You know, I I'm hesitant to hire to this day, I mean 21 years later, we don't start the year with here's our growth goals for the year, here's our here's our here's the profit we have to have for the year. I would I do some some work to make sure I can keep people paid and I have some projections, but to me it's disingenuous to look a client in the eye and go we're going to do great work for you. We believe great brands can do amazing things and then to in the back of my mind go, okay, this here's how much here's how much money we need to take and set aside for profit on this account. Now, we're going to make this account great.
We're going to do great work with it even if if if we have to spend more hours than we would have hoped. That's that's how that works.
So, how big is the company today? A whopping six full-timers today.
Hey. Yeah. 21 years, six full-timers? You know, it's not the size of the agency, it's the size of the results is something we we talk about.
I I agree. As I continue to grow, it's always like how big is your team or how much revenue? And it's like, that's fair. It's fairly fair. But like as a as a one full-timer currently, actually shout out Robert, he's coming on full-time in June. And then a lot of different hands that help me make this. It's like, well, yeah, it's like not full-time, but it's like we hit 3 million views in a month. Like, how many views Sorry. Getting a little bit on my on my tangent here.
No, I can step out of the room. No, yeah, right. But like, you know, six full-time employees is like in insane. It's awesome. Like, you're doing big work and you're measuring based on impact.
Again, I you know, that I'm not the product of a business school mentality. I'm just the product of of, you know, maybe some self-awareness and knowing what what I like and don't like and how I want to work. For me, hiring is not about, you know, peacocking. To me, hiring is making a commitment to someone that as the economy changes, you know, if maybe a pandemic comes along, that you can keep them on staff and then you can keep them on staff at at their full um salary and and that you're going to be there for them as long as as they're there for you. Now, things in business happen and there's growth and there's contraction and and you know, any business owner, I'm sure, just laments over having to let anyone go and I'm I'm not alone, I'm sure, in in trying to create a certain secure environment for people, but it's something I take a lot of pride in and and and I really do feel like um hiring is is a commitment to people and and I do it very very hesitantly, slowly and I So, like what were a few of those early customers that helped you grow and and get to where you are now?
We work with some huge clients, you know, big international brands and we work with some small brands. Um small agency doesn't necessarily mean small clients. For us, we work best with a certain mindset of client. And one of those clients for us from from the very beginning has been Milto Cleaners, a dry cleaning chain on the south side of Indianapolis. And um love those guys. They've let us do great work over the years.
We've built nice trust with them. If you list if you're on the south side, you know of them. If you're on the north side, maybe you don't. Free pick up and delivery.
Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Over the years, we've developed a really good relationship with them and they were there from almost the beginning. If we worked with them in one way or another for probably 20 years. Milto Cleaners is central Indiana's only Sanitone certified master dry cleaner. How about that?
Wow, about that. Yeah, so those those were like one of the early ones. How many locations?
They have hundreds of thousands of locations around the central Indiana area because they will come to your home for free There you go.
and pick up and deliver your stuff at no extra charge. They'll take it, they'll clean it, they'll bring it back. You pay the same as anybody at the store. Sending this to an Eli Lilly uh employee at their Delaware Street location is for Eli Lilly employees only. Yeah. They have a Lilly only Oh my gosh, a Lilly only dry cleaner?
That's That's a good one. People come in the studio and always ask me, "What's that smell?" It's the blueberry cobbler candle from Warm Glow Candle Company in Centerville, Indiana. This is the Hoosier candle company. These are hand-dipped candles, hand-dipped right here in Indiana. Some of their most popular scents are evening mocha, caramel corn, homespun harvest, and of course, the blueberry cobbler.
When you're driving east on I-70, you have definitely seen their huge candle and their shop where you can stop by or you can shop online at warmglow. com. Support an Indiana company and check out Warm Glow. Now, let's get back into the episode. Okay, so we get back into it. You get Milto Cleaners.
As the process went along, you talk about this mindset that you wanted to do great work with people that you like, but like what makes it contrarian what makes it different than the big agency? Obviously, you're not thinking through profit first, but are you bringing different approaches to your customers or or how's that working? So, in the case of of Milto Cleaners, we'll use them as as an example since since we were chatting about them. The trust in a relationship like that has really allowed them to grow. Can we do anecdote time? Sidebar anecdote time?
Of course. They realized early on that that they are dry cleaners, but what they are selling is not dry cleaning. What they are selling is is looking good. That's the thing they're selling. What they're selling is saving your time. That's the thing that they are selling.
So, in the process, they're realizing the difference in the thing you make or or the thing you offer and what it means to people in terms of an emotional benefit. Um and we live in a world where so I mean so much advertising is just here's the thing that we make and here's the price with it and you should buy it. The decision to purchase is more complex than that um and it's more um base level than that. And they um they took a ride with us early on to stop talking about Sanitone certified dry cleaning and uh uh you know better starch and start talking about the convenience of what they sell or the the benefits to looking good or just you know just frankly just having some swagger right now. I think they've been around like 55 years in the campaign we're running right now sort of talks about their history and all that kind of stuff in a fun way. So there's a headline in an ad that we ran if you're on the south side you might see this billboard or you might be served this ad digitally and there was an ad that said where would we be without slobs like you.
That's pretty
And they're like yeah we don't like this headline not sure about it and to their credit they gave us some trust. They ran it. They ran it and they got you know like on Facebook like a lot of keyboard warriors right? And a couple like this is terrible ad this is terrible advertising you demean your customer brilliant really smart. It's also the best performing ad that they ran in their campaign this year has led to multiple sign-ups right? So you have to say something of consequence you have to run the risk of maybe upsetting a couple people who don't have a sense of humor.
If you're going to spend your money doing things that are ignorable if you look at your campaigns through the lens of like could this possibly bother anyone I guarantee you will do shite advertising. You have to you have to do something that is that gets some attention. You don't have to be crass you don't have to be obnoxious and there's certainly a craft to it. But if you're not going to do something that's entertaining don't do it because advertising really it's it's the art of getting people to pay attention to a message that they would rather not hear. You know they're they're not there for the television commercial they're there for the show. They're not there for the Pandora radio spot they're there for the song.
Advertisements are the sort of like what is it the lampreys that suck onto the side of a shark and go for the ride? They're just they're just the things that tag along that no one really wants to see but when you can make them like the message when you can make them actually pay attention to the message, get some interest and some some chatter, that's a pretty cool thing. So, we're we're just advocates for don't do it if it's not going to be interesting. What are some of the most iconic It doesn't have to be work that you guys have done necessarily, but like when you think of national advertising campaigns, what are some of the most iconic campaigns that you've seen? Old school, you know, 60s Volkswagen ads, Beetle ads, they revolutionized the industry. It was totally different kind of ad.
You know, more recently, gosh, I mean everything that, you know, Apple does is usually pretty amazing because it's so on brand, you know, right there. Everything they do is brand. The products themselves, the way they're designed, the way that plastic thing looks, the way it it operates when you touch it and use it. And then
When you open the box. Right, just the whole the whole experience is is on brand. And, you know, so that's one that's uh maybe maybe the better way to ask the question is sort of what what work makes me jealous? Yeah.
That works makes me jealous because there's there's such attention to detail in everything and
And you know one of their best ads? Was it a Super Bowl commercial? Where it was like the standard alarm like went off. Like they played the alarm on the commercial spot.
Uh-huh. And I like was freaking out looking at it like, "Why is my phone going?" And then I looked at the screen and it was that. And I was like, "Oh, those mofos. They They They're good. There the There was the Christmas spot where the There was the the the the teen was constantly on the on I think it was I think it was a a male, it was a kid's phone, you know, he was on his phone not paying attention to family, you know, and you're like, "Oh, what is this jerky kid is on his phone?" You realize the whole time he was he was cutting together a little video of his family to show them, you know, for Christmas and it was heartwarming. They get me. They get me. Suck me in every time.
Okay, so Apple does good stuff. Are there other ones other brands that you're jealous of or just like maybe a specific campaign, ad, billboard, commercial spot? Just one little ad I like that we did one time. My son at the time was was taking like uh was like karate lessons, you know, and he's like whatever, 7 years old, and we we we did a little pro bono free ad for the karate place just cuz, you know, I like the guy that ran it and all that kind of stuff. And the headline said something about, "Let's see you disarm a bad guy with your piano lessons." And and parents are going to invest in a finite number of activities for their kids.
And none of those activities are bad, you know, there's all kinds of there are good things that come from any of those activities. But but we do the one that can actually conceivably save some save your kid's life, you know, if they're they're mugged or whatever. And and it, you know, promotes confidence, of course, and all that kind of jazz. And um you know, to turn that selling point into an ad that makes you chuckle, I just I like the simplicity of it and that was a fun little ad, you know. So, that's one of my favorites over the years. You guys get together and you brainstorm and you're like you have the creatives all in a pow-wow.
Take us through like an an exercise like that. Let's say it is, yeah, a karate studio and we were making an advertisement for the karate studio. What does that look like? That business or or or any of other business, our process is pretty much the same. How un-process like can we make this? A lot of advertising agencies and marketers, I think we have we have a little chip on our shoulders cuz we want to be seen as serious.
We want to be seen as legitimate. We have worked so hard, I think, in error over the years to look like a science, like a hard science of the science of branding and marketing and and and and and the research and the targeting and the hard numbers. It's not. If it's a science, it is a very soft science, especially on the creative side as you as you develop ads and ideate things. And knowing that, you know, we just try to give ourselves some time to chase butterflies, right? To just sit with a problem and and and and bat it around and play with it, and that's when ideas come from that place that you can't access on demand.
At least I can't. Maybe other people can. But to just, you know, have the time to just noodle on it.
Yeah. And get distracted. And let the back of your mind solve a problem that the front of your mind can't. Okay. Well, as we go through this conversation, we're going to noodle on this advertisement uh the spot. And I I have a full campaign of how how we're going to put this out.
Beautiful segue.
going to noodle on the idea that Indiana needs to up its advertising game. Like as the uh unofficial official chief marketer of the state of Indiana For sure. I'm taking this into my own hands. So, we're going to noodle on The problem is that we need the greatest ad 90-second Instagram, TikTok spot marketing the state of Indiana to people that don't live in Indiana. And then by the end of it, we're going to re- we're going to revisit this after we go through the rest of our conversation, and we're just like, "You know what? We should make a video, Nate, about X, Y, or Z thing." And that's what we're going to noodle on for the last uh 25-ish minutes of our of our time together. Sound like a plan? Let's do it.
So, it's it's the state of Indiana. That's what we're going into. This is going to be fun. You start to grow, you start to get um you know, more and more opportunities, jobs, employees. What was like maybe one of those keystone new accounts that gave a chance, big brand comes and works with with you all at the Flatland that you just crushed?
We do a ton of work for Delta Faucet Company who's based here in Indianapolis, and we're the agency of record for their Peerless brand, which is one of the few brands in-house there. We've done work for Peerless, and we've been the that agency of record for seven or eight years, I guess now. And that's been a fun one because it's put our work on a national and and international stage. We've done um a lot of work for for outdoor and ag brands. I I think it's my sort of appreciation for the blue-collar way of doing things has resonated um with certain agriculture, outdoor brands. We've done work for LaCrosse Boots, which is out of Oregon of all things over the years did a decent amount of work for them and some some seed companies here in Indiana and in Illinois. Currently doing some brand work I can't divulge details on.
No. Top secret for for One America here in town, which is you know, that's a huge that's a huge company. Our approach is not to really think about clients big or small. You know, what size is right for us. It's really about a mindset of a client who who values our take on things.
Okay, so we're going to dive into two topics here. First one, to the director of marketing or the head of marketing at a company that doesn't have the budget to go out and you know, work with an agency and like do the whole brand campaign, but wants to make a few tweaks to help you know, advertise better, get more eyeballs, you know, get more customers. At the end of the day that is how you grow a business, right? You got to have more eyeballs on your your content and converting to sales. What advice would you give to that director of marketing on how to make an impact in advertising quickly? Every situation is so different.
We work hard to understand the specifics of any situation before we ride in like do this and do this and do this. And that's why that's actually why I was I was a little hesitant to come and talk to you today because I feel like the the last thing the world needs is another like brand expert who's just you know, chuck-full of in reality out there doing
This is how you grow to 10,000 followers next week. You know, so I'm really hesitant when it when it comes to like you know, join our panel or or come talk to us and tell us how to do a thing because I don't want to know more specifics about anyone's needs, but but generally speaking, respect the audience. Don't tell them what they should think. Give them information that allows them to form their own opinion. A lot of small advertisers maybe because they're they're doing it themselves. They're they're they're really talking to themselves.
Uh uh uh They're just throwing facts at you or they're throwing benefits at you. And it's important for for anyone who's advertising to understand that the decision to purchase, 99. 9% of the time, it's emotional, right? The decision to choose A over B is it's an emotional decision. And when you try to drive emotional decision-making by throwing just rational argument, rational argument, rational argument. It it's it fails.
It feels like it should work cuz I'm I'm telling people all the things they need to know. And maybe as they get closer to a purchase decision, they need some of these specifics. But as they as they are leading up to that moment, it's really about understanding them and giving them a message that just that entertains. I mean, that's that is truly the name of the game is is getting people to pay attention to a message that they would just rather not take the time to listen to.
I always say like the number one way to increase, whether it's like social media, and I I specifically work within like video a lot, right? Like as the video guy. And like on LinkedIn, it's like the first thing is "I'm so-and-so, the CEO of this company you've never heard of." And it's like there's your first 5 seconds of the video. I'm already not listening cuz I probably never heard of you. Or the people that are listening are probably just like your friends and or your customers, the people that already know you.
You're like, "Oh." But it's like if you just get right into like, "You're struggling with advertising?" "Oh, I am struggling with advertising, Ben." "Wait, tell me more." But then like don't just like feed them a bunch of like, "This is how you grow to $1 million next week." And give them something that's actually both entertaining, educating, like give them the content that they're here for.
The first thing you should do is have a great product. Great advertising, effective advertising can ruin your business if it drives people to try a product or a service that's inferior. So, fix, you know, take care of your business first. Fix Fix whatever it is in your product, your processes. You know, if you make a thing, get the thing right um um before you you broadcast it out there.
don't over-promise and under-deliver. Yeah, yeah. So, I think I think that's a huge part of it. You know, we've told a client or two to like maybe go back to the drawing board a little bit on some things. And understand, too, that advertising is a component of marketing. Marketing is is is a is a bigger thing than advertising. And the advertising game's got to be right. You know, if if if your product's right and you know, the the promotion or the advertising is right, but the the placement is wrong, that that'll blow things up. Or So, get everything in alignment. You can't You can't ask advertising to drive sales when there are other elements that impede the selling process, right? Yeah, like even if it's e-commerce or whatever, your checkout process is terrible, right?
Exactly. What's the user experience like?
a million people there, and if they get if the credit card thing doesn't work, you're right, screwed. So, we go through that. How marketing team in-house can, you know, start to make some changes there. I think another big piece is social media. Like, every CEO goes back to their team and says, "We need to do better on social media." So, they hire an intern, they do some dances on TikTok, they post like 10 of those, they don't work, they don't get any business, and they give up on it.
Or the intern's summer gig ends. How do you think founders should be thinking about social media as a form of advertising and how to really build their brand? The first thing for me is is this really important to you? I mean, if it's important to you, put your back into it. You can tell what's important to you because you get behind it with your efforts. And if this, you know, important marketing effort is handed to an intern, and we don't provide any content that's meaningful and unique and compelling and on brand, then you're just contributing to the white noise.
If If anything, you're you know you're making the point that you're ignorable. It'd be better to just be silent than than than add to that that gobbledygook mess. I think there's a the mindset right now that's common that that I take issue with that social content is somehow separate from your brand. There are people there agencies that you know specialize in in in social alone. And and God love them. There's a there's a place for that.
But my take on things is everything is brand. So if if you are doing a campaign that looks one way and then you're totally and in totally different character in social media then it's that's that's not helpful, right? Because then you don't seem you don't seem to know what you're about. So understanding that everything you do is brand and being consistent in your message and hopefully consistent with quality is is the key. So people can have like such a an illustrious beautiful brand on their website and then you go to their social media and it's like a janky Canva crap or something.
And there's and there's a place for you know that user generated stuff. There's a place for that. We we we certainly have clients where we'll run a campaign and there's the television spot and there's the outdoor board and there's the radio spots and there's all the things you know online advertising and and then there's the paid social content that we post that's finished but we also will post you know that's just the day-to-day Instagram stuff and there's a place for it but it needs to be handled with a little bit of finesse. Yeah. Yeah, and it just needs to like represent your brand and your voice.
You know like I think some of the best I think we've talked about this in the pod before like Wendy's on social media. Oh, so good. So good. She is like a B-word and it's it's awesome. Like playful and satirical and you know mean kind of which is funny and it like it fits because they've just established that brand on social media. Are there any other brands that just like crush on social media that you love? Well, I I I guess I would consider it a brand but you know National Park Service seems to do a pretty bang up job with their with their tweets and their their social content.
Really? They're pretty clever. When you reappear in people's lives after inexplicably disappearing with a robot. Okay.
Yeah, they're just fun, but but they're they're just they entertain, right? They're just they're just fun. Maybe there was an intern who was really funny like and then like posted like convinced their boss to let them post like one kind of funny tweet and it did really well and then like but now it's clear that they invest in this brand. If you're paying your $7.25 an hour or whatever intern to like be the voice of your brand, like that's not where your investment that you're making, right? Like you kind of talked about that a little bit.
Yeah, and I you know, I'm not here to to beat up on interns. We were all an intern once, right? So so it's it's not so much about who does it. It's just I think are we being thoughtful? And and a serious approach to marketing doesn't need to create serious marketing, right? It can be funny and it can be silly.
It can be all these things, but I think you have to be serious in thinking about like what what are we about? What do we stand for? What are we going to say in the marketplace? As you look through some of your proudest moments over the last 21 years, what would you say have been campaigns or moments with the Flatlands that you're just you look back on with immense pride? I take a certain level of pride in the work that we do cuz just just I I I want to produce things that I feel good about. I don't I don't I don't want to produce things that I that I just feel mediocre about.
Uh and I I think we've developed a reputation for really good creative and we if you know, we won the awards and and and all those things. Um but the moments that I take the most pride in, I don't I don't know that it has to do with with work because you know, the work is is my job. That's what I'm what I'm supposed to do, but those above and beyond moments for for for me, um you know, it's I think it was it was keeping people employed and paid at their full wage um during COVID. Something I I feel good about as an owner. There's a couple times where we fired clients that I feel good about because making their money was not worth what we needed to do to make that money. You know, we had some Man, I I I sure like your income, but I just I don't think we're a good fit for your worldview on how to market and how to So, we've stayed true to and it's and and I mean like bad blood stuff.
I just mean to tell somebody like we have a different philosophy than you on how to do this stuff and you'd be better served with someone else. You'd be happier with someone else and we'd probably be happier if we if we went and found someone who who believed more in in our way of doing things. Um so, you know, staying true to the vision brings me some some pride.
And I think that that's a big moment from being like a business owner. Early on, you don't have the luxury to do that. You know, earlier on you can't You can be pretty picky, but it's like firing a customer when you're like 1 year into your business is stuff is challenging, right? I think getting to a point where that really makes an impact in the long run if you stay true. You're like, you know what? I'm just not going to do that kind of work. Like I mean, I'm big on this of like I you have to have a tie to Indiana if you want to work with us at Indiana. Like we don't hire people that aren't based in Indiana. We don't We don't have customers that don't have ties to Indiana. Like we don't have advertisers. Like Like Dude Wipes can't come in. Sorry, Dude Wipes, but they can't come in and be like
that deal. Yeah, right? Totally. But it's like Well, if there's like Who's Your Dude Wipes? We're in. If you own Who's Your Dude Wipes, let's talk.
It's a slightly bigger wipe. Slightly. Thicker. Yes. There's so many ways you could go there for ad for advertising. Yeah, but but I do think that's important to get to that and it will help you find the more of what's right and what you like to do and less wasting time on things that are wrong. Even if it is like could be in the short term bigger amounts of money really quickly.
Sure. I don't think anyone running a business would say we're we're too good for this or too good for that. It's not about that, but understanding who you're best for, you know, you certainly we we we we serve at the pleasure of clients. We have to do things to to support their business and keep their business and keep everybody happy. Um but hopefully it's in it which it's tweaks, right? It's minor corrections.
But you can't make yourself into a business you're not in order to keep, you know, one client. Over the Over the years, we've just learned that we have a type of client that we're right for and and I've learned a lot about who we're not right for, too, exclusively in in the private sector, right? We We don't go after um anything that's tax-funded, state, federal, local. We don't We don't respond to those RFPs anymore. It's just there are too many other factors in play when it comes to those types of businesses. We're best when we are working for a director of marketing or an owner at at a company, big or small, who the goal is clear, grow this business.
When the When the goal is no longer create successful marketing, create successful branding, when other things get in the way, um and it's it gets political, I tip of the old cap to to who anyone who wants to navigate that. I I just don't. And And And I think the people, you know, I I would frustrate people who needed me to navigate that cuz I wouldn't be good at it. But when it comes to build a brand that grows our business and get you know, do work that gets noticed and make someone laugh or feel a thing or believe a thing, that That we can do that. We can do that.
We can do a segment in the show. This is the younger you segment, oh boy, brought to you by our friends at Orr Fellowship. They're a great organization here in Indiana helping develop young business leaders across the state. So, Ben, what advice would you give to your 22-year-old self?
I probably would say very little about entrepreneurship and growing a business. I would talk about the things that are more important to me, you know, family, spending time with people. Those moments these you're not going to get them back, you know? I might say don't go after that. Don't do that RFP. Don't go after that pitch. Don't waste your your time chasing this piece of business. You know, spend time with this person or that person. And understand that you're not going to be right for everybody. But the people that you are right for will really appreciate you if you're just clear and transparent about what you are and what you aren't. Yeah. And and and find and you know, just just be be comfortable with who you are.
And I think from like a business like entrepreneurship standpoint as well as like maybe you're looking for a job or a company and like don't get allured in by like a fancy logo and a big salary and find that like who aligns with you. Everyone talks about core values, right? But it's like your actual values. Like the team that you align with. The core values, man. Can I tell a core value story?
Yeah, absolutely. Nowhere at our firm will you find our core values printed out and hanging on a wall. Your core values Shouldn't we tell this to clients, too? We occasionally get the request like, "Hey, tell us your core values and design them on a poster. We'll put them here in our in our in our board room. We'll put them in the conference room so everyone sees our core values."
They should see your core values in everything you do. If you have to write them out, you're probably not doing them all that well, right? You like Sure. Sure, type them out and understand them and agree to them and talk about them, but live them. Living it is better than any poster you're ever going to create. They don't make a poster that's that big.
Live them. It's a it's core in your core. Right. That's the thing. And I I definitely especially when you're small and like you're nimble and it's like easy to be like, "Yeah, what We prioritize creativity or you know, speed or whatever it is." And it's like live out your core value.
They should know like, "Man, you guys just work so fast." It's like, "Yeah, well, you know, in the back of your head you're like, core values, speed, time to value delivery for clients." I don't know what fun stuff. So, I like that. That that's a good one. It's like live your core values.
Yeah, we we we we talk about them, you know, when we bring in a new employee, we'll chat about them. You know, at the core for us is being relentlessly creative. You could you could go through every page on our website, you will never see relentlessly creative written down. But I think you will see work that is creative. I think you will see you know, a copy and headlines and designs and logos that were done by someone who really was was working at it. And and I'd like to think that you would you'd go to our site, you'd go to our office, you'd see us in a pitch, and you'd know that we're fiercely independent, kind of rebellious, really value creative.
I love this guy in the suit just hitting the rower right here. Like, come on. And uh for a little like there's some good there's some funny stuff. It's like some some good stuff like Yeah, appreciate it. Okay, now we've come to the part where I want you to take a peek at our brand. What kind of changes would you make?
How would you market and advertise the state of Indiana or building the brand and that is get Indiana, helping Hoosiers discover more about the Hoosier state.
I I think that it's important to remember that that logo, that that type, that those colors, those things aren't your brand. And and I would caution anyone away from thinking that's my brand. Oh my Here's my brand. Here's my That's not your Your brand is you. Your brand is sitting in that chair, and it is the way you make people feel, right? When you walk into a room, it's the it's the way you handle your business.
That's your brand. A brand is at the end of the day this thing that I that I feel. And and and the thing about brands is your brand, right, is not always in your control. I I get to feel a way about your brand, right? And that's my decision to how how I feel about you or what I what I think you're about. All you're doing is kind of guiding the message.
You're trying to do things that keep it in its lane, right? And I don't think you know, I I wouldn't pick apart you know, your logo or your type or any of that It's It looks good. It looks solid.
Hey. But what I think is we can prove it. We can We You can get hired as we can prove it, but I'm kidding you. It looks It looks great. I I think it's it's it's it's doing what it needs to do, and I and I like it. But the brand is The brand is is what you do.
It's the way you behave. It's the way you act. I don't mean you as a person how you behave. But what Get Indiana does, that's that's that's brand, man. That you just like reshape my whole perspective. Because you know, I did think when you think like, "Oh, yeah, like take a look at our brand."
It's like, "Oh, yeah, they're going to update our logo and our type and blah blah blah blah blah." But it's like, "No, it's deeper than that. It's bigger than that. It's Yeah, it's it's probably fair to say that's that's your visual brand, right? Which maybe is a component of brand. And And this is where, you know, I I hesitate to sound too like lofty on this stuff, but it's but it's real, and it's important, and it's and it's what we we try to manage with our clients.
Like there's there's a reason those some of the ads that you're flipping through were funny. It's not because we felt like telling a joke, but it's because we want to be approachable. We want this company to to feel approachable.
Yeah. If you were, you know, the chief marketing officer for the state of Indiana, what kind of campaigns, what kind of brand, how would you market the state of Indiana? I would limit input. Focus groups, committees, multiple sources of input are where great ideas go to die. And I have certainly seen that in in so many campaigns over the years, right? Well, Bob's a little concerned about purple.
Don't make it purple. And And you know, Susan's Susan's a little concerned about this word. She doesn't like this. Change Change this word to that. Okay. And then And And you go down the list, and you make the priority removing memorable any memorable component that that that that that someone somewhere didn't like.
And what crosses the finish line for your for your ad campaign is the first thing that no one could complain about. You know, what what what what crosses the finish line is is something that's just had all the teeth pulled from it. That's That's a way to make bad ads, to to not be memorable. So, that would be what I would do. That is interesting. That Yeah, like you're going to go through and by the end of it, it's like, "Oh yeah, that didn't You got the basic that didn't make anyone feel anything."
Well, it's it's it's a conversation we have on a regular basis and and our clients get it, you know, where where it's we will be responsible for the performance of this campaign. We'll be responsible for everything that we recommend for you if we have control over it. If we don't have control over it, I feel less um able to take responsibility for how it performs in the marketplace. So, I I've always liked those ad- those odds where hire us, let us do our thing, and if it doesn't work, fire us, speak ill of us all over town. But, I think if you trust us and let us do our thing, this will work well for you. And and um you know, the the version where someone hated us and fired us hasn't happened yet.
It's been 20-some years. I Maybe we're due. Yeah, our number's up. Maybe we're due. Um final kind of question there before we get into our our lightning round segment. A big thing, obviously I I work with a lot of brands, is, you know, creators and influencers and working with that.
And I think a lot of brands see I mean, reach out to me specifically based on a number. Like, "Hey, you have 60-something thousand followers on Instagram." They just reach out because of that. From both sides of the equation, me picking brands to work with and brands picking creators to work with, how do you manage that with your clients? Well, that's a big question. I mean, there there are certainly agencies who specialize in just that.
Yeah.
You know, and and and and um sounds like you're you're seeing it all the time. I mean, it's on your side of the equation. Uh to me, you know, do you believe in the thing, right? Does Does me hawking this thing add to or detract from my credibility? Does it Does it add to or detract from the credibility of what I'm trying to do with Get Indiana, right? Um that'd be that'd be the simple question.
And And do you feel like it? Do you want to be the guy that sells stuff? Maybe you do and and and maybe you don't. On the other side of the equation, we have clients that work with with influencers and choosing those influencers is is is tricky. And there there are there are cautionary tales there, right? Because you're working with people and if if the the influencer you're working with suddenly does some numbskull thing and gets himself or herself in trouble and your brand is tied to that, that's that's that's a sticky situation.
Um that doesn't mean don't do it. It just means be thoughtful in in who you you choose.
Yeah, work with a creator that has 2 years of content, repeatedly been respectful to all the brands that he works with, uh creative, fun guy in the office content, but respectful.
Mhm. That Yeah, who would that guy be? I don't know.
Can't think of anybody. No, that makes a lot of sense. And I I do always say, one, you have to have the number. You want to get views, obviously. But if you just reach out to everyone that has 50,000 followers plus, it's noise to me. It's noise to whoever you're trying to work with. But if you really reach out of like, "Hey, I see that you're interested in running in the state of Indiana or tenderloins or whatever it is, we're in that category. We should talk." Yeah, I'm definitely in the tenderloin category. Yeah, right. Like I'm like I've had some reach outs where it's like, "This is clearly a thing for kids." Like they're parents with kids.
got to look beyond the numbers. I mean, it's And this is not a new problem, right? It means it's it's got a new label on it because it's it's which content creator is right for me. But, you know, we always thought about which magazine is right for me to advertise in. What channel is right for me to advertise on. What you do you do you What TV show do I want my commercial to run?
It's placement. Placement has always been of critical importance. But placement has always been one thing in in in the algebra. It's been one variable in the algebra of what do we do to grow this brand. And um I think new things, shiny things, get a lot of attention and sometimes it's it's disproportionate and that's that I mean that's a place where the industry is right now. Uh you know, we we we we can we can get so in love with targeting, micro-targeting, retargeting that we forget to get famous in the first place, you know, we we chase we chase sales, we chase fans instead of building a fan base and letting them come to us.
Do you have one final piece of advice for marketers and founders that want to get famous and build a brand that people want to work with? You know, if if if a client has some budget to to actually do a paid media buy, right? Don't worry about waste. You know, waste is the price you pay to be known. Um we live in a world in in the marketing world more and more where we can we're so proud of micro-targeting based on, you know, geography, this zip code, this income, they are a fan of, you know, as you said, you know, Frosted Flakes and you know, baseball and we can might we can market target that person and you get known among a subset that is so small but remain unknown in the broader conversation. And I like to build brands where I can get out in front of the need.
When someone wants to buy a thing, let's say that someone wants to buy a whatever, it's a pocket knife. Uh instead of waiting for them to Google pocket knives and then serving them ads pocket knives after they've started searching, be the brand that's known for being a great pocket knife before eliminate the need for a Google search, right? That's that to me is where the real value is. And then they end up saying, I don't want a pocket knife, I want Ben's pocket knife. Right. Yeah.
I don't want a pretzel, I want Ben's pretzel. I Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
like that. Um it's a very long play. It it it is and and and it's expensive and and not every That's really not of our all of our clients have the money to do that. I mean that's that's that's that's the ideal and it's a mix. I just I recommend against all the eggs in one basket.
Yeah. Where if you're only known and you have to go win this customer today, it's like a lot of hand-to-hand combat. But if you're building where, you know, like let's say you're a realtor or whatever and it's like if you're only known by like current shoppers, then it's like, well, maybe people will grow in or maybe people will like downsize out and like you're missing these other targets of people that could end up buying a house from you or whatever it is.
I completely agree. Cool, man. Well, we're down to the final part. This is lightning round where we ask the same three questions to every guest who comes on. The first one is what's something the world needs to know about Indiana? IMS is awesome. Uh sports scene is awesome. Um but we as marketers for years have leaned into those things almost exclusively when telling the story of Indiana. And I think there's so much more to the story that we could get into. I'm fan of those sort of the secondary stories around the state of Indiana. I think there's cool stuff that we have to show off that sometimes is overshadowed by the exciting things. I mean, I feel like everyone does some type of 500 campaign even if they're loosely not not even attached to racing or anything like
I'll I'll be at the race again in May. Don't get me wrong. I I I love it. I love it. It's it's it's it's an exciting time and that is it only makes sense that that is something that we showcase. But it's so big that sometimes uh we forget that there's there's there's some kind of some cool other stuff Yeah. Uh well, this is where we get to talk about cool other stuff. Uh you get to shed some light on something that more people need to know about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? My favorite place in Indiana is my farm, but no one's invited.
You're not. No room. No, I I I because of my background, I I love where I'm from. I'm still able to be on the family farm where I grew up and that's, you know, the blood and the sweat and the tears of of ancestors in that ground. So, it's important to me. So so it's to be to honestly answer that question, that's my favorite place in Indiana.
But cool little thing you might check out. Have you heard of Hoosier Hill? Uh this is the highest point in highest point in Indiana. You do know your Indiana. It is so Indiana and in that sense I mean it is understated. It's you you drive it's like north of Richmond.
It's just it's like the edge of a cornfield. It's it's there's a it's like a little gravel spot you can park on. It is so so modest and it's not I don't think it's a state-owned property or anything. It's just it's a county road. You drive up and there's a picnic table and there's a mailbox and they're like, "Well, if you're you're here, tell us why you're here and have a great day." And you it's so it's so modest and it and I wouldn't like cancel my Hawaii vacation to go there, but if you find yourself in that neck of the woods, I I
Stop by.
I can't help myself. I always go by when I'm in that area cuz it's it's neat. It's so humble. It's so humble. I got to the classic the Hoosier humble the humble Hoosier Hill.
"Well, yeah, it's yeah, it's the highest place in Indiana, but you know, it's you know, it's Depends on how you measure it, right? Like Right. So it's it's very sweet. It's like the classic thing when you compliment someone like, "That's a really nice hat." They're like, "Yeah, I got it on sale at Goodwill."
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like, "Don't be too proud of this." Yeah, like, "Oh, like you did good, too." Like that that point's pretty high, too. Yeah, so it's it's very Indiana to me.
That's funny. I love it. Um final question. This is how we uncover new guests and just learn about interesting Hoosiers doing amazing things. Who's a Hoosier that we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things.
There's an organization called Project Rouge here in Indiana. R O U J like like French Creole for red. Indiana-based charity that we that we work with. We we did all the brand work for, so full disclosure. This organization based in Indiana that builds homes in Haiti and what I think is super cool about it is how they do the work. They don't send missionary teams to build homes.
They don't send a plane full of people down there with hammers and nails and they build a house and then they fly back here. They change the economy of of of Haiti by taking your donations and then creating jobs for people in Haiti to build homes. So, someone gets a home and a whole slew of other people get a job to build that home. They then have income to spend in that community and rather than saying, "Here's your home." which is great. Free home in Haiti would be great.
But rather than doing just that, they spin up economies. And I think it is such, you know, we're tying this back into Indiana. It is and it's it's it's an it's an Indiana idea, right? Here's Here's We're going to help you help yourself. We believe in you. We believe that that that your effort will make a difference here and we're going to help We're just going to give you the tools that you need in order to do something for yourself.
So, it's a it's a group that we do a lot of work with. It's a it's a group that we believe in and I think they are pretty cool. Yeah. I love that. And I And I do think that yeah, changing the community, right? It's like going in there and yes, at the end, the outcome is someone gets a free home, but then also along the way it's like, oh, like but it fact, I think he said 15 to 20 jobs on the website.
Like 15 to 20 people's lives get impacted.
And beyond that, right? Because then they have money to go spend and buy other things and and it's, you know, it's it's it does change local economies and even the people who who get the homes, they have some skin in the game as well. Yeah. It's a charity that I I feel good about and I'm excited to work with and and we've done a lot of work with them over the years. Amazing. Well, Ben, thank you so much for coming on the show, telling us about the flatland, telling us about your journey through advertising from Oh my gosh, Haiti's underground undergarments. Is that what it was? Back full circle to Haiti. Wow, there we go. Wow, come on, tie it all around there. It's not my first radio.
Yeah, I mean It's my second. why
the master.
But talking through your journey from, you know, Pendleton farm ground to, you know, running a your agency and and all the years in the fun work that you've done and some of the fun edgy concepts I really love. I love getting able to look at a an ad that like and and it's like, "Oh, I would I would watch that." Like some of the best creative where it's like, "Yo, someone paid for that, but it's just so good." And I think doing work like that where I I can't stop watching or I want to like poke around on their website because it's cool. Like that's the best way to get ROI on whatever marketing spend you have. Absolutely.
So, thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing your story. Keep up the amazing work. And next time we're out at the Humble Hoosier Hill, we're going to stop by and write something down there. Hit the hit the picnic table, leave a note in the mailbox. Heck yeah, man. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Appreciate you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Get In. If you like what you heard, make sure you leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations at sweetwater.com. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and TikTok @NateSpangle. Thank you so much for listening and being part of what makes the Hoosier state great. We'll see you next time here on Get In.
